Trade out of rd 1?
by CarpeBobby on Feb 21, 2010 4:01 PM CST
Email
PrintLet's get hypothetical real quick.
Target List:
1. Earl Thomas
2. Mike Iupiti
3. Maurice Pouncey
As a general consensus, from what I have gathered is the player we all want is Earl Thomas. If he is still there around pick 20 we should strongly consider a trade up. A game breaker like him would change the whole dynamic of our defense. We would be feared instead of respected. Mike Iupiti seems to be rising out of our range which I'm fine with. As much as he would be a good player, he wont be a game changer like ET, so there is not as high of an incintive to trade up. I'm fine with Pouncey as first round pick. He would play immeadiately - even if you have capable starters a player of his caliber will force his way into the line-up. But taking him leaves us with no game changer on D. Additionally, our interior O-line is still adequate, the situation is not desperate yet so we can afford to take 3-4 rounders for O-line as we have been doing.
What am I getting at here? Say we think its more important to get some playmakers in the secondary than build the line; we are not going to be able to do both without some kind of trade. We have two options - one is detailed by raf vela in his mock draft - trading up from our second pick to draft Morgan Burnett. The other option is to trade out of first round (or to last picks of first) and pick up extra picks and somehow transform our mid round picks into another 2nd.
So lets say we end up with something like the 35 pick. We target two players here, Morgan Burnett and Nate Allen. The order of priority will be more clear after combine. Lets assume they are both there. We take the one we like better and start working the phone lines to trade up and get the other one. This way we have two very solid S prospects so we can once and for all fix the S position.
Original Picks:
27, 59, 90, 122, 186, 218
For example I have us trading pick #29 for #35, #98, and #162 ( a 1 for a 2, 4, and 6)
We take Nate Allen (if he's higher rated) at #35
So we now have:
59, 90, 98, 122, 162, 186, 218 (and Nate Allen)
We target pick 45 for trade up on the condition Burnett is still there. If he is we pull the trigger and trade pick #59 and #90 for #45. (a 2 and a 3 for a 2) Boom we now have a young playmaking secondary.
After that we come home with:
98, 122, 162, 186, 218 (and Nate Allen and Morgan Burnett)
For all yall that like rds instead of numbers
What we had:
a 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7
What we get:
two 4's, two 6's, a 7 (and Nate Allen and Morgan Burnett)
So in conclusion we get a starting caliber FS (Allen) and a starting caliber SS (Burnett) and two extra picks to find two OL projects, a NT, a WR, and a whatever else we decide we need.
Used draft value chart for guidelines: http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php
Maybe Jerry could do better.
Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.
131 comments
|
3 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I hope Jerry does it better . . .
. . . because 2 middle of the road safeties right off the bat just kills our draft. Neither would beat out Sensabaugh — and I doubt they would beat out Ken Hamlin/Alan Ball or even Michael Hamlin. Dallas has proven it cannot develop lower-ranked OL talent and needs to spend an early round draft choice to continue the rebuilding of our over-30 starters.
From the hometown of Bob Lilly,
early round? its not like we are drafting in the top 10....
None of these guys in that slot are a sure thing….all of them are projects or bench players for at least the first year. Jerry doesn’t want bench players with his first round selections. He wants contributors right away.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Early round . . .
. . . as in 1st round, 2nd round or 3rd round — not 4th, 5th, 6th, or 7th rounds. We’ve been down that road before and have el toro de caca to show for back-up OL. Just look at our starters pedigree:
RT – Marc Columbo – 1st round, #29 overall in 2002 by Chicago
RG – Leonard Davis – 1st round, #2 overall in 2001 by Arizona
OC – Andre Gurode – 2nd round, #37 overall in 2002 by Dallas
LG – Kyle Kosier – 7th round, #248 overall in 2002 by San Francisco
LT – Flozelle Adams – 2nd round, #38 overall in 1998 by Dallas
With the exception of Kosier (who everyone would like to see upgraded), all of our starters have 1st or 2nd round pedigrees. Dallas does not develop OL, so we are seriously overdue in investing in the OL, where every game is decided. I don’t care if you run a pro-style, run-and-shoot, shotgun, wildcat or wishbone, if my big guys whip your big guys, I’m gonna win!
From the hometown of Bob Lilly,
Free was a 4th rd pick
It looks like he’ll be a future starter.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 21, 2010 9:00 PM CST up reply actions
He may be . . .
. . . but he hasn’t beat out any of the others YET! And who are you going to put at the other positions?
From the hometown of Bob Lilly,
But Dallas only Drafter 2 of those guys
the 2 we drafted were both in the second round
by nicholas.rodriguez on Feb 23, 2010 6:35 PM CST up reply actions
#1
Our OL is the biggest potential liability we have now and for the long term. It can years to develop lower round talent into a starter plus it takes years to develop a cohesive unit.
I hope 2 of the top 3 picks are OL.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate"
I agree with your initial statement
…but I wonder if 2nd round O-linemen fare that much better than 4th rounders?
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Considering GM Jerry NEVER takes a 1st round OL
Then I’d have to say his track record is pretty good.
Flozell, Larry Allen, Gurode (sure, there’s Rogers), even Al Johnson
vs.
Well, there’s not much (Jerry) history. Free & Myslinski (Ron Stone only hit in NYG)
Bottom line is the 2nd Round is GM Jerry’s OL “slot”
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
I was thinking more along the lines of across the NFL
…but your point is a good one.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
fair point
but Gurode, Flo, and Larry Allen were picked in 2nd round; not that it’s a guarantee ‘cause we also nabbed Solomon Page in the 2nd.
My point was we really need to draft OL; I’m more comfortable drafting higher than lower for these behemoths.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate"
...and (gulp) Jacob Rogers
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Jacob Rodgers
What a complete waste of a pick; idiot who went to the training room for a hang nail. I remember some interesting debate about who was responsible for this mega failure
Its a pipe dream for everyone to think we are taking a lineman with the 27th pick..not happening and for good reason....
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Why is it a pipe dream?
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
I wouldnt draft any of those players in the first round....
Jerry is more than likely trading out of the first….hate to break it to everyone.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
I hope so
this is a very deep draft the more picks the better.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Yeah, because we did so well with that strategy last year, the ROY candidates were everywhere!
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
?
last year didn’t have as much talent even at the top. Don’t get your point…
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Where is it written that I can't?
Other than in your “Stanabck is a future star” commentaries.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
I remember those statements...I called that bust from day 1..what a horrible waste of a pick
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Exactly
In some cases, you can tell that more time is needed to judge a player’s worth here and there.
But the lack of a philosophy and true DRAFT STRATEGY in Dallas has been grating me since Jimmy left.
Jerry, left to his own devices, has not shown a willingness to truly invest in the idea of the draft as a team’s life blood.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Like trading away three picks for RW?
Yes, yes, of course.
Maybe you meant 4 or 5 years, not necessarily in a row, over his entire tenure as GM.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
the real value of last years draft will be
appreciated after this year and next.
Also, that draft plugged a lot of holes in ST.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
Yes, of course
I see the championship teams always trading out of round 1 and using a quantity over quality approach to the draft.
You know, it IS okay to call the Cowboys out for doing stupid things as it pertains to building a roster. It won’t destroy your fandom.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Ever cross your mind that your wrong on this one?
There’s a very well written explanation on the front page of how the Cowboys use their draft board to determine whether or not to trade back depending on the prospects available. You should read it, you’ll find it interesting and informative.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 23, 2010 7:34 PM CST up reply actions
Again, why?
Because it has proved itself out?
Because it has empirical evidence supporting it?
I could write a great post on how there was a strategy in Detroit under Matt Millen to build a roster loaded with talent. The fact is, the results showed that any time wasted in trying to understand why a tire fire smells like burning rubber is still…just wasted time.
And yes, it crossed my mind, until I went back and looked at Jerry’s adventures in drafting without Jimmy to guide him. The bright shining light that is the results helped show me the way.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Yeah, you're wrong about that
The Cowboy’s roster is loaded with talent, mostly acquired in the draft or thru undrafted rookie signings. So that argument can be thrown out.
The fact is, teams are constantly trading up and down to try and match draft board value with their actual picks. Whether you agree with it or not, that’s the reality. In fact Jerry’s hand picked HC Jimmy Johnson was the first to adopt use of a draft pick value chart for the exact purpose of trading picks with other teams to maximize the value of his draft. So if you are indicting the way Jerry trades back and forth, then you are also indicting your hero Jimmy Johnson.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 25, 2010 4:44 PM CST up reply actions
Everything you said at the end would have been valid if your premise had not been totally erroneous
I’m not indicting the strategy of trading picks (your misinterpretation).
I’m indicting the execution!
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Ha
You most certainly come across as against the strategy regardless of execution. All of your anti-trade down arguments are flat out against it, or laced with sarcasm suggesting that championship teams don’t trade down in drafts. If you want I can site several of your own comments within this thread as examples.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 26, 2010 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
Let the citations begin!
I think you’ll find you either misunderstood them or failed to keep context for them.
For the sake of clarity, my point is that Dallas has not benefited from an all-too-often-used ploy of trading out of round 1.
In addition, it would seem that teams who consistently perform at high levels generally treat their #1’s as gold.
The examples that were given around the Niners and Pats only helped to underscore the idea that frequent trading down either had negligible or negative value to those teams’ so-called dynasties.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
OK
Here’s your sarcastic comment to make your point (I’m a fan)
Yes, of course
I see the championship teams always trading out of round 1 and using a quantity over quality approach to the draft.
and this one speaks for itself
Trading down is for fools.
I understand what you said, and going back to re-read, I also appreciate the context. You are against trading down, unless the result is a future #1. Your position on the subject is perfectly clear. Only after I pointed out that Jimmy was originally the driving force behind Jerry’s love of trading back, or moving up, to squeeze every ounce of value out of the draft, did you decide to “clarify” your position on the matter.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 27, 2010 1:46 AM CST up reply actions
So how is that different that what I said two comments above?
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
More on the topic
when I said I was indicting the execution, it was simply Jerry’s belief that he could match wits with a talent guru the likes of Jimmy by doing the same things, except with more reckless abandon.
Case in point: this is a draft tailor-made for Dallas to move UP and grab an O-lineman who can serve as an anchor for the next decade.
History with Jerry suggests he’ll do what he usually does – trade down and miss out on a player who could help the team.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
That is the old Jerry
New Jerry is constrained by his son and his mortgage on the new stadium. Remember how Jerry did not move up to get his pet cat Tellus Bennett? That might have cost Dallas the pick they used on Scandrick. I think Jerry has learned . . . not that the Roy trade supports my argument.
You mean James Hardy, I think
Good example.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
by APerfectStar on Feb 28, 2010 6:33 PM CST up reply actions
Last year's draft notwithstanding
Jerry has moved up to get players recently. Jenkins, for example, was acquired by moving up to 25 from 28. Spencer was drafted by moving back into the first round after trading out first. Point being that Jerry has shown the initiative to move up to get an impact player.
And I would love to see the Cowboys move up to grab an Earl Thomas maybe, but is it really worth losing more picks in a draft this deep? Not to mention that the Cowboys have found late-round stars in good frequency.
But I’m curious to know which O lineman you are interested in and how far up you think the Cowboys can trade.
Movie Reference
by accidental innuendo on Feb 28, 2010 8:00 AM CST up reply actions
Well I am interested in all of them
…but based on the Combine alone (Free Agency will change things), Ducasse still looks like the guy we should take, if he is there, at #27. I imagine the guy I REALLY LIKE, Bulaga, will be long gone.
Having said that, every year there is an Oher, a Loadholt, a Grubbs…
Dallas needs to capitalize on a player who might fall a few spots and trade a Telly B or Bowen to get him.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Really
What would you say they did that was stupid?
Trading Stanback?
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
they didn't trade Stanback for one
I was against the RW from day one, but in the end it allowed Jerry to cut T.O. which saved our season. I thought signing Joey Galloway was dumb in 2000.
Those were really Jerry’s only bad moves over the past decade really as far as player acquisition is concerned.
In Romo we Trust
You're okay with his draft choice history?
You support his trades out of round 1?
How about his process of building coaching staffs? You good with that?
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
since Parcells and Ireland arrived and now Ciskowski running the show, yes
and yes, I’m fine with how he builds his coaching staffs, yes.
In Romo we Trust
Or say "S" without saying "Eth"
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Really? His total lack of ability to be a quality starter in the NFL is not an issue for you? Really?
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
Low expectations...
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
This is a deep draft
may I suggest trading a future first for a second if the right player falls.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
if the right player falls
of course… I wouldn’t mind getting Dez Bryant or Okung in the 2nd round =P
by nicholas.rodriguez on Feb 23, 2010 6:36 PM CST up reply actions
Quincyyyy, are you really Matt Millen in disguise?
Actually, I think even Matt Millen would avoid that kind of zanyness.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
If you have a player with a first round grade on him
why not use a future first on him? Don’t get why you wouldn’t do that.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Because 1st round picks are 1st round picks, not 2nd rounders
And I’d ask you this, since teams watch players with 1st round grades fall every year into the 2nd round, why do you think more teams don’t trade away their future 1st rounders for those players?
The simple answer is the need to annually infuse your roster with youth to address positions you need to increase the level of talent at. Why mortgage your future like that when your #1 could be a top 10 pick in the next draft?
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Do you really expect that the Cowboys...
That the Cowboys will land a top 10 pick in next year’s Draft? Or you’re just talking about a what if scenario?
I’m having trouble understanding your logic… A 1st Round pick is a 1st Round pick… Duh, that’s true, but what about the pick true value? Most teams give between 20 and 25 players a 1st Round grade, if you’re unable to select one of them you’re selecting a 2nd Round valued player in the 1st…
I think that the Cowboys chances of selecting a later pick than this year’s 27th are higher than the opposite, which increases the chances of selecting 2nd Round value… If you’re taking that into consideration with an eye on the future you should see the logic behind a trade of this nature…
Now, if your glass is half empty, which seems to be your case in almost every year… You just don’t know what you’re going to get in the Draft… Probably a top 10 pick… Right?
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
Purely hypothetical
It was more about the IDEA of moving up instead of the dreary every-year talk fo trading down and carpet-bombing the draft with guys like Julius Jones instead of getting guys like Steven Jackson.
You’re right about our chances of drafting later than #27 rather than earlier, but (based on our history) it didn’t take much grey matter for you to make that call, did it? My point is simply that it doesn’t mean it’s the smart play.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
actually they do trade future firsts
that happened a couple of times last year
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Since you're a draftnik, how about doing a historical look at that practice?
When Cleveland did that with us in order to get Brady Quinn, did it pan out for them?
How about other teams who’ve done it?
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Highly likely
Given the following facts:
- Cowboys needs (OL, S, DL, WR) does not match the strength of the draft at the elite levels.
- Draft position
- Open starting position battles
- Last year of non-pay scale for rookies
- Possible lockout in 2011
All point to trading out of the first round.
In particular, the guaranteed money for 1st rounders that is usually absent for all other rounds points to trading down.
Further, like last year, there simply is not a dire need of someone that needs to come in immediately and start. OL takes 3-4 years before a starter is really ready (outside the truly elite LTs, which there are none this year).
Great year to trade down, though if GM Jerry pulls another trade down, trade down some more crap that he did last year, I won’t have a computer left to blog anymore. It’ll be at the bottom of the Gulf!
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
What do you consider the "strength" of the draft to be at the "elite" levels?
OL – there are 7 OL prospects with a 1st round grade, 5 more with a 2nd round grade
S – there are 3 S prospects with a 1st round grade, 4 more with a 2nd round grade
DL – there are 12 DL prospects with a 1st round grade, 6 more with a 2nd round grade
WR – there are 3 WR prospects with a 1st round grade, 5 more with a 2nd round grade
Now, according to my “country-boy” arithmetic, that’s 45 prospects out of the top 64 selections, or over 70% of the first two rounds — just how “elite” do you need the “strength” of those positions to be?
From the hometown of Bob Lilly,
What source are you using for the grades?
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 21, 2010 11:29 PM CST up reply actions
Elite is 95 plus (future Pro Bowl) level
There are 2 OT with elite grades, though just barely. Okung is really the only true elite, though Davis and Baluga (sic) are close. Last year, by comparison, there were 5.
Safety and WR have none, though Eric Berry (a true CB and an elite prospect) is being projected by some at safety.
This draft (by most accounts) is really weak overall at the elite level, though DL, CB, and even LB are seen as the strong suits of this draft. All of which are low “need” areas for the ’Boys.
BTW, you have 25 1st Round grades in 4 positions, when most draft boards only have 20-22 total worthy. Maybe you ought to get a little more edumakation rather than using cowboy math. And no second rounder is considered elite.
The point is that using a 1st Round draft pick (and the money it requires) is normally reserved for getting elite talent or filling an immediate need at a rare position (i.e., LT).
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
Two answers in one
Sources: a blending of NFL Draft Scout, Scout.com, ESPN, National Football Post and Pro Football Weekly, plus a inside source within the Cowboys organization.
As to the 25 first round grades versus your “20-22” from “most draft boards”, let’s hear your sources for the difference of 3 — I gave you mine.
And my education includes a Bachelors, Masters and post-doctoral work, plus years of playing, coaching and scouting.
From the hometown of Bob Lilly,
Maybe a math refresher is needed?
You’ve got 25 in 4 positions, but left out QB (2), LB (min 4), CB (2), TE (1 or 2), and RB (?).
As for the normal draft board distribution, I used Rafael’s research (see his latest article) backed up by Mayock & Gil Brandt’s past statements.
And there’s no way you used NFP, et al, ‘cause their ranks of “1st Round” grades consistently stop at 20-25, depending on the service. NFP’s ranking of “elite”…those with grades of 7 and above (though I’d argue that 7.5 is the Mendoza line) was less than 10.
I guess we differ on the definition of elite, but maybe I need more time at Bogan University (Aussies’ ought to like that).
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
No way, you say?
Re-read my answer — I said a “blending” of sources, which also includes Mayock (I left out of my original answer) and his sidekick, Corey Chavous. BTW, if you have not been to www.draftnasty.com, Chavous provides a different take on some prospects. The difference is probably in the categorization of positions — there are some “hybrids” that would be either DE43 or OLB34, not to mention some CB prospects who could play S (and vice-versa). My original question was what is your definition of elite — you answered with a grading system that is not universally accepted, but that’s fine. I was strictly talking from the perspective of 1st and 2nd round grades.
From the hometown of Bob Lilly,
Thanks
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 22, 2010 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
Low on elite talent tru...........
But this draft has alot of players with 1st round grades on them……. I guess that iz where the number 25 come from……. But of course it really vary by a teams draft board………..
But as far as the strong suites of this draft im reading every where it would b OL, DT, and many r sayn this draft is rich n the S postion…..
These three positions are n need and i hope the CBOYS draft heavy n these positions.
+1
If anything Dallas should move up and snag one of the elite LT prospects
trade out of 1st round????
i dont think that would be a good idea, we are n win now mode. keep trading for future picks and by the time those pick come through, it’s time to get a new qb or a new oline…i say stay and draft BAP and see if they can contribute or push for starting job…
You don't have to trade for future picks
you can trade for current ones. Especially in a draft as deep as this one it would behoove us to trade down for more picks.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
It all depends who is available at 27 when we're on the clock
Saying we should or shouldn’t trade up or down at this point is ridiculous because we don’t know who will be drafted ahead of us.
In Romo we Trust
Plus, if there's a high profile player that is still available like a Colt McCoy
a team like the Rams may want to jump up from the 2nd to move past teams that may be in need of a QB—like the Vikings at 30 if Favre retires.
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
by Aaron Novinger on Feb 22, 2010 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
exactly
there a million different scenarios that can play out over the course of the first rd and anyone of them is just as probable as the others.
In Romo we Trust
Why draft Steven Jackson when Julius Jones will be there for us?
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
no, why draft Jackson when we can acquire a future first
which will help us select #94. Without Buffalo’s pick, Parcells more than likely selects Spears over Ware at 11 in 2005.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Feb 23, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, great answer
We could have the NFL’s best 3rd string while the play from our FIRST STRING OT’s continues to decline and then Romo (and Terry) blame them for not allowing Romo the time he needs to throw those 8 yard passes.
The sad part is, Jerry will probably do something even more outlandish than anyone on BTB can predict.
Maybe he’ll trade our #1, Romo and RW to the Raiders for Jamarcus. and DHB?
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Jerry may be questionable at times, but he isn't that bad.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 23, 2010 11:56 PM CST up reply actions
You're a kind soul
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
How do you know what happens in all of these hypothetical situations you create?
Does the water in Pennsylvania give you special clairvoyant powers?
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
guess the same way you know our draft last year was bad
and the water in Pa is tremendous BTW ;)
In Romo we Trust
It may taste good...
but it’s clouded your mind.
Switch to Pilsner Urquell.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
just like the SoCal sunshine has affected your mind
in claiming a 11-5 team that wins the NFC East is mediocre.
In Romo we Trust
Is Isaiah Stanback still on the All-Terry team?
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Yes, and Bill Was an Idiot for his
views on Spears and Ware
So that makes all mock drafts rediculous, right?
Rhetorical question.
However, I do believe that discussion of the weight, depth, and breadth of the draft; the relative value at the ’Boys current drafting position; and the team needs would be remiss without discussing the wisdom, possibility, and even potential partners of an event that I consider a strong probability.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
Whoops, meant as a reply to Terry.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
mocks drafts aren't ridiculosu because they're fun to do
and fun to read as all intelligent, knowledgeable fans know they’re simply speculation and have no real basis in reality except for maybe the top 3-7 picks.
Stating we should or shouldn’t trade out of the first rd has nothing to do with mock drafts.
In Romo we Trust
Carpe, you had me for a minute ...
Until you traded back up for … another safety. Why would we spend two picks on the same position? I understand you are talking about getting a strong and a free, but Sensabaugh will get re-signed and play one of those positions.
Anyway, I was having a similar thought of trading back and then up to get two early 2nd round picks. The guy I really want is Pouncey and I think he could still be there in the 30-36 range.
Obviously none of this happens until draft day and only happens should we identify that one or some of our target players could slide. If we’re on the clock and Earl Thomas or Baluga or Iupati are there, we take him and dont look back. But lets say none of our top guys are there.
First, we look for a team drafting in the top 5 of round 2. We trade pick 1.27 for picks 2.34 and 4.98. Then we find someone in the middle of 2nd and trade back up with picks 2.59 and 3.90. The trade value chart matches for each.
The result is this:
Old picks: 1.27, 2.59, 3.90, 4.122, 6.186, 7.218
New picks: 2.34, 2.45, 4.98, 4.122, 6.186, 7.218
We essentially drop 7 spots from our first pick, gain 14 spots with our second pick and drop 8 spots from our third pick. Not too much of a change, but now that opens up a lot more available players with that 2nd pick. What do we do with it?
At 34 I think we still have a shot at Pouncey. And with the 2nd pick, we probably have our pick from Allen or Burnett. I know this is exactly the first two picks Raf had in his draft, but I’ve been thinking about this for a while. And he said we would have to trade up to get those two guys. Now, with my scenario, we’ve only given up 8 spots on our third pick to get both our guys.
If one, or both, of those guys are gone we still are in good position to get some impact players. And dont forget we’ve saved some money by trading out of the first round. Possible available players include: OT Brown, OT Ducasse, NT Cody, DE Odrick, ILB Weatherspoon, CB Cox, CB Kyle Wilson, S Chad Jones, or S Asante.
I don't like our safeties
I hope we get burnett. But your probably right that we don’t need to force the issue and take two. But I would have no problem if we did take 2 as long as they are the best players on our board. Well see how this combine goes and maybe these safeties rise or fall
And lets hope we get something from Michael Hamlin this year
He was injured most of last year (like many of our rookies) so hopefully he comes back healthy and can make a contribution. In my mind, he’s our second rookie Safety this year.
Outstanding scenario...very plausible
Another possibility to consider is getting an ’11 First Rounder and a high 2nd Round pick.
This draft (while entirely too early to predict trends) has Bradford pulling a Bradie Quinn. There are a ton of teams at the top of the 2nd that will be fighting to re-enter the 1st, where a QB can justify the exorbitant salary.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
Bradford won't fall that far, if at all.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 22, 2010 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
That's what they said about Quinn
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
Solid drafting makes a team competitive over the long haul
Dallas trading out of round 1 has not been a recipe for success in the past.
I’d support it if they got a future #1, but not back in the same draft.
This is not a team with a ton of holes that needs 14 draft choices. Besides, which team has been able to use that strategy to its benefit? Nobody I can remember.
There are a few key positions that need addressing and Dallas may have to reach a bit. The scenario NOBODY seems to be talking about is trading someone like Choice or Telly B and our #1 to get up into the top 15. That’s where a solid OT like Campbell or Bulaga could be had.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Not a bad idea.
I would do that for Baluga, but not Campbell. He seems like a project, but could pay off big time. Baluga strikes me as a guy who is ready to be a LT from Day One. And even though we might not need one from Day One, he’s there. I’d trade our #1 and Marty B or Tashard for that.
MOVE UP IN THE DRAFT!!!!
why move down…again…??? we saw what happened with that last year, but when we grab a quality 1st round player we know that they can contribute right away.
move up, grab an Earl Thomas or if there is an opportunity for Eric Berry if he slips, go for it. if not then stick with our 27th and snatch the the best OL or Taylor Mays if he is on the board still.
Taylor Mays???
Really? Wow. Do you really want a Roy Williams clone in the defensive backfield again?
would love to move up, but Jerry is not moving up for a safety...
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
i would say
move up for eric berry. if earl thomas is slipping too i dont see why not.
if we stay put at 27 i would rather pick up the best strong safety.
Taylor Mays is a freak, way better than Roy Williams. He is taller, stronger, faster, and has better work ethic. You put him on a great team with probowl DE’s, DT, CB and in the hands of Wade Phillips and he will be a force.
usc was doodoo this year and that for sure affected his play compared to before.
i would be more pissed if grabbed a golden tate at 27…
Mays is NG!....
Mays doesnt fit into todays safties that need to be basically CBs now….Its the reason Berry, a CB in college will be a safety in the NFL. Mays is a biscuit away from being a LB…we had one of those….no thank you…
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
he is no roy williams
but anyways when it comes to drafting i trust our guys. we ripped it two years ago and will do the same this year. i am just not a fan of trading down.
If Jerry thinks this kid is anything close to RWs he will pass and so will alot of others....
Jerry learned his lesson on taking safties with high picks, epesically ones that are being labeled the next RW. We dont need a saftey that bad to use a first round pick on.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Agreed, Mays is no Roy Williams
Beacuse Roy Williams was one of the best college players in the country. Mays isnt one of the top 5 players on his own team.
I realize Mays has measurables that are out of this world. And I’m sure he will make a huge splash at the combine (does Al Davis need a safety?) But Roy made plays. In college and his first two years in the pros. Mays hasnt really done that. He’s just a freak athlete.
When its all said and done, Roy Williams will have had a better career than Taylor Mays. Unless Mays moves to LB, then all bets are off. I think he could be a solid LB in time.
+1
Trading down is for fools.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
yeah, that 49ers dynasty sure as hell didn't know what they were doing
They only built their dynasty doing exactly that!!
In Romo we Trust
And New England
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
Good to see you F15
But unfortunately, I have some bad news.
You’re wrong.
Look at New England’s picks leading up their run of SB wins and you’ll see that trading back in the draft never helped them. What the Pats did, and I am in favor of, is trade #1’s for future #1’s.
Unless of course you have a man crush on guys like Adrian Klemm, JR Redmond and Greg Randall. Last I checked, they were of no consequence to the Pats run. In 2001, their first 2 picks (both theirs) were Seymour and Matt Light. In 2002, Graham, Branch and Givens (all NE’s original picks). In 2003, they picked Ty Warren, Eugen Wilson and Asante Samuel.
Ah well, you get the point, right?
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Really?
See, now this is where I think the water is affecting you.
I kow facts piss you off, but bear with me here…
In terms of the drafts leading up to their dynasty years, the niners had two #1’s (one from in 1978, using them on Ken McAfee and Dan Bunz, who both were part of that dynasty. The previous draft looked much like our 2010 draft, where they traded their #1 for a future #1, but landed only short timers and busts with the leftover picks.
In 1979, they traded their #1 for a future #1 and drafted Montana in the 3rd and Dwight Clark in the 10th.
In 1980, they drafted Earl Cooper with their #1 and used the #1 they got from the previous year’s trade to draft Jim Stuckey (who didn’t amount to much). Note to Terry: the trade they made the previous year didn’t help them, unless you know something about stuckey that I don’t. The impact pick was Keena Turner in the third, but it was their third.
In 1981, they drafted Ronnie Lott with THEIR #1, along with Eric Wright and Carlton Williamson in the 2nd and 3rd. All of them, their picks. And, they won the Super Bowl with THEIR picks.
So no, Terry. While the niners did do a fair amount of dealing relative to the draft, it generally blew up in their face and probably kept them from winning more Super Bowls than they did.
NEXT!
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
obviously not stating all the facts piss you off
What else happened in the 81 draft that you’re not mentioning??
In Romo we Trust
Dallas took Howard Richards
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
What is Howard Richards doing these days?
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Did he play JR & Bobby Ewing's stepdad?
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 27, 2010 9:08 PM CST up reply actions
I always thought he was Golden's cousin 5 times removed...
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
You're on a roll
I spit up my soup on the “low expectations”.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
If we moved down to get 3 more picks
then we could move up and have more high quality picks (first 3 rounds). I wouldn’t move down unless there wasn’t anything worth the pick left in the first
by nicholas.rodriguez on Feb 23, 2010 6:50 PM CST reply actions
why to draft mays?
only in case you are al davis….
why to draft box safety -( mays is excellent hitter, perfect run stopper….)
…when we can stop the run without safety help? olshansky and spears are perfect run stoppers…and…this year, hammlin with sensaboom are average safeties at the best. ( i am ranking sensaboom higher than hammlin)…and we were 10th against run in the league…
so pls draft someone with ball hawk skills, and let me enjoy defensive TDs …
before there was law, there were the Cowboys!!!
If we don't like how the 1st round is shaping up...
why not make a run at a RFA w/ a 1st round tender? Could that make more sense than trading down into the 2nd or 3rd round? I don’t believe the “Final 8” rule prohibits the Boys from going after restricted free agents.
This draft is loaded!!!!!!!!
I would not like traden down but if there no one n the first at value yea trade down( ex. if Pouncey ,Earl Thomas, Mike Iupiti are gone or any one Dallas eyes) ……….then pull the trigger……………
Just clean up n the 2nd round and grab the best man at VALUE!!!!
But i was JJ i would want to line up n the top 10 n the 2nd round…….those guy r just like 1st round picks
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
