the highly anticipated 32 team 2 round mock draft
by quincyyyyy on Feb 22, 2010 9:02 AM CST
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PrintWe were going to do a 4 rounder as prep for after the combine when we'll do a 7 round mock, but we encountered some road blocks that we are going to have to smooth out before the big 7 rounder.
I ended up picking the same players as I did in our previous mock, which wasn't intended. I actually wanted to go o-line in the first, but the way things fell I felt I had to pick the same players.
Draft results
Live Draft:
1st Round:
1. St. Louis (1-15)- Kong Suh, DT, Nebraska
My pick for the Rams since before I knew we we're getting the first overall. It won't change because we're no worse off now than we were this time last year at QB, we are just more aware of our QB situation. I'm not convinced we won't bring Bulger back at a reduced contract but I'm not depending on it for this pick. I just think we value Suhs upside more than Bradford or Clausens. I'm now convinced we won't be able to trade down. I'm sure I'm in the minority on this but I think in the long run, Snead, McCoy, or Lefevour are all serviceable starters. One of them will do fine, even if we're not in the Locker stakes next year.
2. Detroit (2-14)- Geral d McCoy, DT, Oklahoma
Gerald McCoy DT Oklahoma. No brainer here. BPA meets need. Explosive DT, good motor, good intangibles, no injury history. Russell Okung is a consideration here as well, but for me Gerald McCoy is the guy. I picked Russell Okung in the 1st because I believe that he is the best LT in this draft & will fit into the Shannahans ZBS. He has been compared to Ryan Clady, another LT who Shannahan took in the 1st rd. With the terrible line that the Redskins have now, I think that Okung would step in immediately as the starter as Chris Samuels will be forced to retire because of serious neck issues. I believe that Okung will anchor the Redskins line for the next decade just as Samuels, who was the 3rd pick overall ten years ago has done for the past decade.
3. Tampa Bay (3-13)- Eric Berry, S, Tennessee
4. Washington (4-12)- Russell Okung, OT, Oklahoma State
5. Kansas City (4-12)- Rolando McClain, ILB, Alabama
Rolando McClain ILB Alabama - The chiefs had a terrible year in many areas but to win in this league you have to be able to stop the run. A NT is a huge reach here and Brandon Albert played lights out for the second half of the season last year. Once Jamaal Charles took over at running back and we switched to a zone blocking scheme Albert's abilities really showed, he practically shut down Dumervil in the last game. Our offensive line needs improvement but it needs it in the form of a C, RG and a T for depth and i believe Pioli will not draft a RT, RG or a C this early in the draft. NT is considered but Dan Williams is just not dominant enough to warrant this high of a pick. McClain will be the field general of the Chiefs defense for many years to come.
6. Seattle (5-11)- Jimmy Clausen, QB, Notre Dame
7. Cleveland (5-11) Joe Haden, CB, Florida
8. Oakland (5-11)- Bryan Bulaga, OT, Iowa
The Raiders are in big need of offensive tackle help. On the right side, Cornell Green is a free agent and is terrible in any case. On the left, Mario Henderson started out incredibly strong, but faltered as the season went along. Bulaga has the athleticism and skill to challenge Henderson for the starting left tackle spot as well as the size and versatility to be able to shift to the right side. I gave serious consideration to Anthony Davis, but am not sold on him as a hard enough worker.
9. Buffalo (6-10)- Anthony Davis, OT, Rugters
10. Denver (7-9)- Dez Bryant, WR, Oklahoma State
11. Jacksonville (7-9)- Mike Iupati, OT/OG, Idaho
12. Miami (7-9)- CJ Spiller, RB, Clemson
13. San Francisco (8-8)- Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma
14. Seattle- Bruce Campbell, OT, Maryland
15. New York Giants (8-8)- Derrick Morgan, DE, Georgia Tech
16. San Fransisco- Brandon Graham, OLB, Michigan
17. Tennessee (8-8)- Brian Price, DT, UCLA
18. Pittsburgh (9-7)- Earl Thomas, S, Texas
19. Atlanta (9-7)- Trent Williams, OT, Oklahoma
With most of the value currently available being for 3-4 defence teams: 2x nose tackles (Cody, D. Williams), 3x OLBs (Kindle, Sapp, and Hughes), perfect 3-4 DE (Odrick), or skill positions TE (Gresham ....we traded this yrs 2nd rd pick for Tony Gonzalez), RBs (Best, and Dwyer), and all except one WR still available (we currently have two former #1 picks as our starting WRs) , the plan would be to trade down. Sure we have a need at CB and DE, but few realize that we spent our top 4 picks on the defensive side last yr, and checking out out websitewww.thefalcoholic.com they have been doing a "retrospective" on those players, both top pick Peria Perry DT, and William Moore SS got hurt for the year while signing their contracts, but most of the fans are happy with 3rd round CB Chris Owens, and 4th round pick DE Lawrence Sidbury. We didnt want too many young players on one side of the ball. We currently have a LT, Sam Baker, who is much like Jeff Backus (LT lions) sorta average, but just good enough that we likely wont replace him for the next 8-10 yrs. Trent Williams proved that the LT position (Sr year) might be too much for him to handle, but seems to have an excelent blend of speed and power for the RT side ( Jr year). Protecting Matt Ryan is very important to us, and we feel with proper protection, he can take advantage of his pro-bowl caliber players at WR, TE, and TB.
20. Houston (9-7)- Dan Williams, NT, Tennessee
Dan Williams had an incredible Senior Bowl week. He looked great in practice and commanded double teams during the game. He would fit in on a really good Texan D line. Big strong Williams next to smaller and quick Okoye. Its a dream come true.
21. Cincinnati (10-6)- Jermaine Gresham, TE, Oklahoma
22. New England (10-6)- Sergio Kindle, OLB, Texas
23. Green Bay (11-5)- Taylor Mays, S, USC
24. Philadelphia (11-5)- Everson Griffin, OLB, USC
25. Baltimore (9-7)- Carlos Dunlap, DE, Florida
26. Arizona (10-6)- Brandon Spikes, ILB, Florida
27. Dallas (11-5)- Golden Tate, WR, Notre Dame
I was actually angling for an o-lineman here, but since there was a run on them early I decided to pick Golden Tate again. Tate would make the Cowboys offense truly dangerous working the other side of the field opposite Austin. He is a WR in a rb's body, as he is a former rb, and is very dangerous after the catch because of that. Coming from a pro-style offense at Notre Dame he can step in immediately and replace Roy Williams, as I'm wagering Jerry will not want to pick up his 9.5 million dollar option. Tate's return abilities will also have special teams coach DeCamillis drooling.
28. San Diego (13-3)- Jonathon Dwyer, RB, Georgia Tech
29. New York Jets (9-7)- Jerry Hughes, OLB, TCU
Jerry Hughes OLB TCU with the JETS coming within a CB of the superbowl, the jets select possibly the best edge rusher in the draft.Most mocks dont have Hughes in the first round ,but he is a Rex Guy nonstop motor never takes a play off and someone who has a very explosive first step to get to the QB. The Vernon Gholston project is still alive but with selecting Hughes,its actually on life support.
Sean Weatherspoon, OLB, Missouri. The Vikings middle linebacker, E.J. Henderson, is trying to recover from a broken leg. His backup, Jasper Brinkely, finished the year for the Vikings at middle linebacker. We hope, but are not 100% sure that Henderson or Brinkley will be able to play at a high level for the Vikings in 2010. Additionally, starting outside linebacker Ben Leber's contract expires in 2011. Leber is a good linebacker, but sometimes he hasn't made a play when it was there. Weatherspoon will push for playing time right away at middle linebacker and outside linebacker, and could conceivably start for much of the year at either position. He can also contribute on special teams.30. Minnesota (12-4)- Sean Weatherspoon, OLB, Missouri
31. Indianapolis (14-2)- Charles Brown, OT, USC
32. New Orleans (13-3)- Navarro Bowman, OLB, Penn State
2nd Round:
33- St. Louis- Jason Pierre-Paul, DE/OLB, USF
Best Player available at a position of need. Still no QB because who I want will be available in the 4th round. I would probably go offense next round though.
34) Detroit Lions – Maurkice Pouncey, C, Florida
Maurkice Pouncey C/OG Fla. As the draft was falling I was gunning for Jason Pierre Paul to slide here. Alas, the Rams love them some DL so I scrambled, going with talented Maurkice Pouncey. The Lions have had a glaring hole at LG for the past decade? Maurkice has the versatility to fill that spot or center for the next decade. Pouncey is athletic, has good size, good technique, is a good pass protector, can get to the second level.
35) Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Jared Odrick, DT, Penn State
36) Kansas City Chiefs – Terrence Cody, NT, Alabama
Terrence Cody NT Alabama - This pick seemed logical at the time that i made the lists but the more i look into it and how the picks fell i am rather disappointed with it. Cody is a run stuffer and an immovable object on 1st and 2nd down. We use a nickel package for the most part on passing downs so he wouldn't have to play so much and would help our young DE's improve and grow into a dominant front 3. I would be happy with this pick as i think Haley and Crennel would be able to work with him and make him into a very good player in this league.
37) Washington Redskins – Chad Jones, S, LSU
I picked Chad Jones, FS from LSU because I think that other than Eric Berry, he is the best Safety in this draft. Altho our D was very good last year, FS was a huge disappointment with Chad Jones replacing Laron Landry so that he can move back to his natural position which is SS.
38) Cleveland Browns – Damian Williams, WR, USC
39) Oakland Raiders – Devin McCourty, CB, Rutgers
McCourty was not my first, second or even third choice to pick at this slot, but I'm by no means disappointed in getting him. I think Chris Johnson would make an excellent nickel corner, but I think McCourty would be a better option as starter. Then too, the Raiders kickoff return game was just abysmal in the 2009 season and McCourty is an instant help there.
40) Seattle Seahawks – Lamarr Houston, DT, Texas
41) Buffalo Bills – Demaryius Thomas, WR, Georgia Tech
42) Tampa Bay Buccaneers (from Chicago) – Arrelious Benn, WR, Illinois
43) Miami Dolphins – Brandon LaFell, WR, LSU
44) New England Patriots (from Jacksonville) – Jon Asamoah, G, Illinois
45) Denver Broncos – Arthur Jones, DL, Syracuse
46) New York Giants – Nate Allen, FS, USF
47) New England Patriots – Selvish Capers, OT, West Virginia
48) Houston Texans – Perish Cox, CB, ok. State
Cox has good size and speed for a corner and will also help out in the return game. Playing Peyton Manning twice a year calls for the type of defensive back that Cox showed he can be in the Senior Bowl.
49) San Francisco 49ers – Jahvid Best, RB, Cal.
50) Kansas City Chiefs (from Atlanta) – Jarod Shipley, WR, Texas
Jordan Shipley WR Texas - Many chiefs fans really want him but looking back at the draft i'll probably adjust this pick. A WR is a need on this team but the fact is we need somebody with potential to be a #1 or #2 in this league and Shipley simply isn't that. He is a slot receiver and frankly that position is important to Weis and Haley as a coach so i could see this pick happening. He has sure hands and can help in the return game. This pick becomes more likely if the Chiefs resign Chambers as he showed to be a decent #2 this year. Bowe needs to get back to the great player he was his first 2 years and i believe he does that.
51) Carolina Panthers- Taylor Price, WR, Ohio
First off I wanted a wr with speed, Price runs the 40 in under 4.4 so check. next I wanted a wr that`s team oriented with no character concerns and can block again I feel Price offers all these qualities, he has good senior bowl practices and is on several teams radars and has some analysts predicting top 60 selection, Kiper and cbs rank him at around the 75 range so yes was a reach but was the guy I wanted. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1123712
52) Pittsburgh Steelers – Kyle Wilson, CB, Boise State
53) New England Patriots – Rob Gronkowski, TE, Arizona
54) Cincinnati Bengals – Mardy Gilyard, WR, Cincinnati
55) Philadelphia Eagles – Morgan Burnett, S, Georgia Tech
56) Green Bay Packers – Donovan Warran, CB, Michigan
57) Baltimore Ravens – Dexter McCluster, WR, Ole Miss.
58) Arizona Cardinals – Jason Fox, OT, Miami
59) Dallas Cowboys – Vladimir Ducasse, OT/OG UMASS
OT/OG Vladimir Ducasse has great size, arm length, power, and feet. He was also extremely productive and dominated the competition. Unfortunately for him that competition was Division II players. Moreover, as a recent immigrant from Haiti he is not that well developed and has poor technique. Despite all of this a lot of draftniks like Todd McShay and Scott Wright have him rated as a first day prospect (first three rounds) based on his size and potential. And with his great work ethic and willingness to put in long hours in the film room he should live up to that potential.
60) San Diego Chargers – Dezmon Briscoe, WR, Kansas
61) New York Jets – Pat Robinson, CB, Florida State
With the Deep Talent pool of cornerbacks the Jets look to fill the Opposite corner position , across from the best corner in football.Falling all the way to 61st and knowing that NFL QB will be looking to Throw against him Pat Robinson shows up with a chip on his shoulder. He has great top end speed and reads the qb well, needs some work but he fills a big void in jets secondary. The Jets focus on defense with first two picks , first reason being Braylon Edwards actually caught a pass verse the Colts, secondly , why pass when you can run. Christmas comes early for Rex as he continues to build on the Best Defense in Football
62) Minnesota Vikings – Myron Rolle, S, Florida State
Myron Rolle, Safety, Florida State. Rolle adds depth to the safety position for the Vikings. It seems likely that he could play either strong safety or free safety. He even played some cornerback in college. Rolle could push for playing time at either safety position, and perhaps even as a cornerback. He can also contribute on special teams.
63) Indianapolis Colts – Corey Wootten, DE/DT, NorthWestern
64) New Orleans Saints - Aaron Hernandez,TE, Florida
Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.
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Comments
Golden Tate in the first is interesting
do you think he’s ready to come in and compete with the top 3 WRs on Dallas’ Roster?
He sounds like gamer, but on the wish list, it’d be nice to have a WR who can really stretch the field
Eventhough he is a junior
I would rate him as one of the most NFL ready WR’s in the draft. He played in a pro system in Notre Dame and runs great routes.
I would liken Tate to a shorter version of Miles Austin, but he is also a great punt and kick returner. I’m sure Joe D will love that pick.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
in Quincyyyyyyy I trust...
lol, I like Tate but I’m a big fan of Pouncey as well
by nicholas.rodriguez on Feb 22, 2010 6:21 PM CST up reply actions
+1
RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.
by aussie_cowboy on Feb 23, 2010 8:25 PM CST up reply actions
Looking at this mock makes me want the Cowboys to pick up a couple more twos even more.
The could get McCluster, DuCasse, and Rolle in the bottom of the second; whereas, Odrick, Pouncey, and Nate Allen are all picked near the top of the round.
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
That is why I'm saying it might behoove us to trade a future first for a second if the right guy falls
and trade back
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
The Bucs and Chiefs each have two 2nd rounders.
The Pats have three.
Those teams will have trade power on Friday.
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
by Aaron Novinger on Feb 22, 2010 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
not if a player with a first round value fell to the second
and there is no guarantee that a first round value player will be there when we pick next year in the first round.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
thats happens all the time
I just think Jerry values his first rd picks too much, I’ve only ever seen him give up first rd picks to get allegedly proven talent like Galloway and RW.
In Romo we Trust
If you have someone graded as a first rounder, why not use one to get him?
second round or not
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
+1
He’s a LT. I doubt he lasts that long, but lets see how he does in Indy first.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
what he does in Indy won't affect his draft grade
don’t get sucked into the Combine lure blings, you’re better than that.
In Romo we Trust
I agree that he won't climb much higher, but any player that shows up fat and out of shape can fall pretty hard
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
Andre Smith anyone?
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
That is a good counter example for sure
although I am not sure his rookie year really is a great sign for future players that show up that way hahaha.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 26, 2010 11:49 PM CST up reply actions
The Combine IS and WILL ALWAYS BE a meaningful part of where many players get picked
Brian Robiskie tore it up and moved up anywhere from 20-30 slots. Do you know how much money that made him?
How about Chris Johnson? If he runs a 4.48 40-yard dash, he is may not be the #1 for the Titans.
There’s a thousand examples like that. Don’t listen to people who completely disregard the Combine.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
You're pretty harsh in regard to the Combine and it's value...I think you're off base a bit
Especially for a guy like Ducasse, who played in the COLONIAL conference, scouts will want to see him up close and personal, especially in position drills against other A-list competition.
Another thing I think you undervalue about the Combine is the interviews. If you think teams with needs won’t scratch a highly talented jamoke off of its board based on a crappy interview, you’re mistaken.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
+1
They know most of the big names but small school guys get missed. Interviews mean alot. I dont buy into 40 times if the guys wasnt a player coming in.
I think their can be big movement but it s more like a 7th rounder becoming a 4th.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Indy doesn't mean that much for linemen
The most important thing for them in Indy is their measurements. And Ducasse already got his taken at the Senior Bowl, and had great measurements.
The only thing I care about for linemen is their bench and maybe the three cone. But those are only minor concerns.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Ugh! You'd be shot if you were the 'Boys GM.
First, a WR will not be picked in the first, second, or third rounds. Maybe not at all. GM Jerry has stated over and over (and over) that he feels WR is best had in FA. His drafts prove this. Further he’s stated that he’d be fine coming to camp with what we have now.
Second, Roy Williams’ contract is guaranteed. He’s not going anywhere.
Third, the ‘Boys really like Ogletree and Manuel Johnson. Both are big, fast, and quick with great hands (see Raf’s position primer).
Lastly, with so many needs at OL, safety, and ILB there’s simply no way a WR goes to the ’Boys…bad, bad mock.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
I guess that is why Carlton Mitchell flew down to the Senior Bowl to meet with us and a few other teams
LOL.
Also in 2008 Jerry wanted to trade up to get WR James Hardy in the second, but Stephen held him back because others in the draft room wanted to stay put and get Bennett.
Some words of advice: between now and draft day Jerry will be blowing all types of smoke, don’t believe a word he says.
ILB is not a need. Especially since we used our first pick on one last year, and the team has high hopes for Hodge. Plus Carpenter is serviceable.
And please name the WR’s we have on our roster that are for sure legit starting Wide receivers.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Inane argument (redux)
This is the same silly argument that’s been made every year by us bloggers.
But GM Jerry’s words on this subject have been proven again and again. He does not believe that WR is a position that is best filled via the draft.
Look, I’d give my left nut (and some would argue that GM Jerry has done just that via his outlandish trades) for an Andre Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald.
But we’re setting ourselves up for disappointment if we think he’ll pull the trigger on one in Round 1.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
Just because they haven't...
doesn’t mean he wont.
I think if the value was there he would do it.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 22, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Actually no they haven't
because he tried to trade up to get James Hardy
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
oh and I'm still waiting for you to name legit starting WR's on our roster besides Austin
tick tock
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Crayton is a legit #3
Just because people like Tate does not make him a legit NFL WR either. At least Ogletree and Johnson know the system. Having Ducasse as the only OL in the 1rst 2 rounds is just a crime. That big clumsy tub of goo has bust written all over him.
Sorry but if the WR position opposite Austin depends on Manny Johnson
then I have some beans to sell you.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Austin is the only true WR on this team that is stable....
the rest are unknowns……People are crazy if they think this group of WRs is good enough to carry this team for years to come…We dont even know if RW will be on this team past 2010 and if he plays like 2009, probably not. Crayton is 31….old, Hurd more than likely gone….Ogletree maybe the only bright spot next to Austin…….They have to keep upgrading the speed and talent at the position…WR is a real need of this team.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
But the question is:
Is WR one of the top few needs on this team? I say no. I say: OT, OG/C, NT, DE, ILB, S, K, KR/PR are all bigger needs than WR. WR is not perfect, but its not a glaring weakness either.
yup, right behind OL or at least as equal to...but a player like Tate would immediatley contribute to this team...
drafting a lineman wont. In fact, I don’t know of anyone outside of rookie WR that would be able to get significant playing time…
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
That is patently false.
A player like Iupati would come in and compete for the starting LG spot. Heck so would Mo Pouncey or John Jerry. The only OL that is completely locked down is C and RG. A FS could come in and compete right away. It would not be that hard for a good FS to outmatch Hamlin.
Right, Flounder
And there is no way in hell a WR would get starter snaps this year, without injury. He might be our regular return man, but he’s not going to break into the starting rotation this year.
Not that I think that’s all that important, but apparently thats all Boyzfan cares about. Nevermind our O Line is geriatric and needs an infusion of youth.
I'd say we have to see what happens with Austin before we know how Jerry will play his cards
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
doesn't mean we should ignore the position this year
those players aren’t proven yet and like the old saying goes, you can’t have enough LBs for a 3-4 defense.
In Romo we Trust
Weatherspoon is less of a proven player than Jason Williams
at least our coaches have seen Williams play in tc and preseason and on special teams.
I’m not saying ignore it, but after drafting Jason Williams there are probably better positions you could use your first round pick on.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
So explain to me
how your view point regarding bringing in a guy like Weatherspoon when we have Williams already compares to bringing in Tate when we already have the Tree? Isn’t this the exact same situation, just at different positions? But yet your view point is completely different. Doesn’t quite make any sense to me.
by Mandmeisterx on Feb 23, 2010 6:35 AM CST up reply actions
One was taken at the top of the 3rd round the other is undrafted
and we have Brooking at least for this year. We don’t have anybody on the other side of Austin for this season. So there is an immediate hole at WR where there is not at ILB, thus we can give Williams time to develop for the next year or two.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
And you think if Tate came in
he would be starting immediately?
by Mandmeisterx on Feb 23, 2010 8:27 AM CST up reply actions
It is easy to explain the difference between Tate and Spoon
quincyyyy has a man crush on Tate.
No I have seen them play
Spoon is like a rich man’s version of Barbie C. And Tate is a polished route runner who came from a pro style offense at a big school, and put up massive stats there.
If there is any receiver in this draft who could start immediately it is Golden Tate.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
were on the same page here quincy....
This kid would make an immiediate impact on PRs and as the #3 or #4 WR..
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Which spot would he take?
You think RW’s spot is in jeopardy to start the season? I don’t see it happening.
by Mandmeisterx on Feb 24, 2010 5:51 AM CST up reply actions
He could start as the last WR on the roster
but by the end of training camp he would earn the second
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
So you honestly think at the end of training camp
he would be starting in place of Roy Williams? Jerry isn’t going to pay the guy over $10 million in guaranteed money to start the season on the bench. Not to mention this team is very slow to replace starters when their backups are outperforming them. Just don’t see it as being realistic.
by Mandmeisterx on Feb 24, 2010 8:38 AM CST up reply actions
after all with Dallas' Defense
Dallas catches a lot of punts
by AustonianAggie on Feb 24, 2010 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
I agree
that he’d be an upgrade over PC at PR, but the argument is that he’d instantly be a starting WR here, and that’s just false.
by Mandmeisterx on Feb 24, 2010 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
thats true but I excpect Dallas to
rotate WRs in and out. Notice how NO used personel groupings of its WRs.
Dallas last year were running WRs in and out; you hardly had the same three WRs in the game on consectutive plays.
So initially Tate is in on 15 plays, the 30 or so a game for most of the year. Mean while RW goes from 65 to 45 or so
by AustonianAggie on Feb 24, 2010 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
Even if this situation did occur
he’s still playing less than RW. That doesn’t seem like we just have an open hole someone can come in and just fill, like quincyyyyy is implying.
by Mandmeisterx on Feb 24, 2010 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
I was just gonna say that.
It looked as if Garrett had different WRs in for different formations/personnel groups.
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by Aaron Novinger on Feb 24, 2010 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
he would push Crayton off by mid season I bet....
at the least he would get a years worth of experience and be able to take the 2nd or 3rd spot if RW was released at the end of the season.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Roy had his playing time cut in the last couple of games anyhow
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
"Came from a pro style offense"
Only means something when it’s a QB.
KICK ASS every day!!!
by squidlo97 on Feb 24, 2010 2:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Actually that is not a great point
in a lot of spread offenses in college the routes receivers are required to run are very limited.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Very true
Spread offense WR’s often have trouble getting off the LOS when jammed, and are limited to the slot position in the NFL.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 24, 2010 6:35 PM CST up reply actions
+1
RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.
by aussie_cowboy on Feb 24, 2010 7:12 PM CST up reply actions
Not true
The ND offensive system means that Tate can run every route (as opposed to many spread WRs) and that he runs them well.
RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.
by aussie_cowboy on Feb 24, 2010 6:32 PM CST up reply actions
Everyone runs the same route tree
Slot recievers run more of the same routes stiuated for their position and wider guys have ones they run more but they are the same route.
A go is a go, an out is an out, a slant is slant and a curl is a curl, ect..
KICK ASS every day!!!
by squidlo97 on Feb 24, 2010 7:12 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Um no
For example, Danario Alexander is probably a 3rd or 4th round pick eventhough he had spectacular stats. He had the most receiving yards out of any receiver in the country. One of the reasons is he plays in a spread and runs only curls and gos. When he gets to the NFL the playbook is going to be a many times harder than the one he is used to.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Completely agree with you on this one quincyyy
It has always been the big knock on spread WRs. They run very limited route trees and almost never face press coverage. Tate does come from a pro style offense and may be a great WR, but it does not mean he is a fit for Dallas at 27. If we trade back and pick up some extra picks then sure grab him.
Yeah cause Micheal crabtree has been a lost bust.
No WRs translate well. It a tough ass position to evaluate and I doubt you could prove to me with data that WRs from spreads have more trouble than traditional offenses.
Wes Welker came from a spread. He also seems to be doing well.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Welker was undrafted
Florida receivers (under Spurrier) are classic busts and recently, nearly all WRs from “spread” offenses are downgraded by teams.
Does that mean that “spread” receivers can’t play? Certainly not. But as a general rule, their college production seldom translates to NFL productivity.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
Production doesnt but the original point was routes they run.
Spurrier was more about the system than the players.
Wes played in the spread in college regardless of his draft position. Before he got hurt one could argue he was the best WR in the NFL or at least the most clutch. No doubt about his catches. Thats why I threw him in there.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Draft position IS the point
Welker was/is an exception to the rule.
NFL teams will downgrade a receiver because of the spread. That’s because they don’t believe they can effectively transition to the NFL.
Otherwise, they’d draft uber-productive spread receivers.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
Doesnt make sense to me.
Crabtree played in the spread and I never heard of it hurting his chances. Pro offenses run from the spread all of the time. We run it on the goal line.
Wes Welker wasnt downgraded because he ran from the spread, he was down grounded because of his size speed ratio. He didnt fit the profile of of a pro WR.
You can either get seperation or you cant. Spread doesnt mean nothing to a WR.
P.S if the NFL knew what a WR look like they wouldnt have the highest rate of bust.
KICK ASS every day!!!
The only team that actually come close to the spread is NE
It is the reason Welker flourished there. Also no one is saying spread WRs can not be good NFL WRs. What we are saying is that, genetic freaks aside, spread WR have a higher bust rate. There is a reason the NFL is not filled with WRs from Hawaii, Houston, BYU, Florida, Texas, Texas Tech, and the 60 -100 other spread offenses. If you look at the Top 30 WRs( based on yardage) only Welker is from a spread offense.
The spread calls for WR types that arent NFL types
Most of those schools dont get the quality of athlete that it takes to make the NFL. I see no evidence that shows these guys bust any higher rate than WR from other schools.
Routes and route running are the same.
With the success of Welker in the slot its my opinion that these guys stock is on the rise. They arent the biggest guys but they are some of the best route runners. See all the clamoring on here for Shipley
KICK ASS every day!!!
Not true. He's also also a player who can contribute right away.
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
by Aaron Novinger on Feb 27, 2010 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
yeah, but the enthusiasm for him would not be nearly as high if he played for Rutgers or Oregon or Michigan or...
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
I'd be even more excited if he was from Oregon!
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
by Aaron Novinger on Feb 28, 2010 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, but you and who else?
Lots of UT fans here, which I understand, but there is some serious overvaluing of players who once wore the horns
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
+1 Though Shipley did play in the national championship and played well.
I dont want to draft him though. Isnt he kinda old.
KICK ASS every day!!!
I disagree with the contribute right away
He will not be a good NFL PR because he does not change direction well. He will not beat out Crayton or Ogletree. He might add value as a KR, but I doubt it.
I don't think he'd beat them out straight out of their jobs, but he's versatile enough for Garrett to get him some snaps.
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
by Aaron Novinger on Feb 28, 2010 4:38 PM CST up reply actions
Yep
RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.
by aussie_cowboy on Feb 25, 2010 2:49 AM CST up reply actions
UM yeah, I played the spread in college. What do stats have to do with route running.
I also stated these guys run mostly the same routes but practiced all of them.
He had spectacu;lar stats because it was college and they threw every play.
These reason he may not do the same in the NFL is he might not be very good.
KICK ASS every day!!!
thats incorrect...has nothing to do with the QB....its the offense being implimented..
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
But the offense a guy plays in
matter much more with a QB (and some other offensive positions) than a WR.
WRs run routes. True they may run specific routes that are not that common to a pro style offense, but you can teach a guy a route. As long as he knows how to get into cuts, how to turn for the ball and the timing, the rest is easy.
But every other position in a spread offense, for example, would have more to learn than the receiver. Some linemen (like Brewster from last year’s draft) hardly ever played with a hand on the ground because he was in a spread offense. He mostly just pass blocked.
I would rather have the stud LB in the first
And take my chances on a WR a round or two later when you can still find good talent.
Movie Reference
by accidental innuendo on Feb 24, 2010 6:54 AM CST up reply actions
I've seen a few people mention ILB
Starters: James, Brooking, Carp
Depth: Jason Williams, Leon Williams, Steve Hodge
I think they are pretty deep at ILB, and you could say the same for OLB. It would almost be like taking a RB or TE if they drafted a LB. Maybe they will, but they don’t need to.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 22, 2010 6:48 PM CST up reply actions
You can never have enough LBs or CBs
Yeah, it’s trite, but it’s true. We don’t know what we have in Williams or Hodge. Same for Butler and Williams at OLB.
We know what we have in Carpenter, and quite frankly, it’s not enough. And sooner, rather than lately, Brooking will need replacing. And James is not above an upgrade, for that matter.
Further, another pressure OLB to spell/replace Spencer or Ware would be awfully nice.
Now, if GM Jerry pulls another Bobby Carpenter pick in Round 1, I may go Postal and pretend Cowboys Stadium is a giant IRS building.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
Right you can never have enough LBs
but that doesn’t mean you should spend a premium pick on one.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Unfortunately, you have to
Seldom does a stud LB come from anything but the first 4 rounds…most in the first, especially the pressure players on a 3-4.
Now ILB can be had in the 2nd and 3rd.
Depending on your definition of premium (mine is Rounds 1-3), I could see one taken if the right player falls.
That said, we spent way too much capital on LBs in the past few years and a few obvious neglected positions like OL simply make it a position non-gratis (hopefully)
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
Hodge
is only going to play nickel, if at all. He isn’t built to play running downs inside in the 3-4.
by Mandmeisterx on Feb 23, 2010 6:36 AM CST up reply actions
Manuel Johnson?
The guy couldn’t even make the 53 man roster last year. I can almost guarantee you that Manuel Johnson won’t be the reason we avoid drafting a WR.
And as much as I don’t really want Tate in the first, I do think the Cowboys will look to draft a wideout in the middle rounds. Why? We need someone to return kicks and punts. A wideout like Jacoby Ford or Antonio Brown would immediately fill this need. We also need another guy that can come in and put pressure on a defense with their speed. Austin does this and Ogletree may be able to do this, but all our other receivers lack that ability. I think Dallas is and should look for another wideout in this draft.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 22, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
The Cowboys acutally like Manny Johnson.
Todd Archer from the DMN blog said “He looked quicker and faster by the end of the year. And he was returning punts for the scout team.”
by beautifultyrant on Feb 22, 2010 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
If he's in the organization I hope the Cowboys like him
but let’s not pretend like the Cowboys are counting on him for much (if anything) this year.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 22, 2010 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
Funny same thing was said about miles a couple of years ago.
Now I am not saying MJ is as good as Miles or ever will be, but to write him off is just silly. Neither you nor I know what the Cowboys think of MJ and their plans for him next year. For all we know he just needed a real good year to toughen up and bulk up. He is a Big 12 player which means he came in soft.
The differences are pretty stark if you ask me.
Miles Austin made the 53 man roster in his first year. Manuel Johnson didn’t. Miles Austin flashed his ability to contribute in his first year by doing kick returns and taking one to the house in the playoffs. Manuel Johnson didn’t get on the field and never really looked that great in training camp. Don’t get me wrong, it would be awesome if he turned out to be great, but excuse me for maintaining some realism instead of making sweeping claims that the Cowboys have pinned their hopes on a practice squad player. By that logic, I am sure some of you feel Jesse Holley is going to be a difference maker as well.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 23, 2010 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
Big difference in who was on the Roster when MA was signed.
Name the WRs on Dallas when Hurd and Austin were brought in. They were not fighting established, and overpaid WRs. Dallas had Meshawn and She and that was it. Once again I am not saying MJ is going to pan out, but to automatically assume he will not is not realism it is wearing blinders. I am also not saying Dallas will not draft a WR at all, but to think Jerry will draft a WR in the 1rst 2 rounds is either pure hopefulness, or rampant ignorance.
First of all, this whole conversation started when it was asserted that Dallas “really likes” Manny Johnson and that he will prevent the Cowboys from drafting a WR. I never said that MJ has no chance to pan out down the road; all I have been saying is that I think it is ridiculous to believe that the Cowboys are counting on MJ to be a main contributor this year from the practice squad. And in this regard, history agrees with me pretty strongly.
As for the draft, I hope you are right because I would much prefer picking up a receiver in the fourth round after we address the O-line and the safety position.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 24, 2010 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
Don't you love it when guys like Johnson and Stanback get so much love from fans?
Comical…
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
But Stanback had a cool haircut...
and I would argue that the widespread infatuation with Ogletree is equally ridiculous.
RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.
by aussie_cowboy on Feb 23, 2010 1:41 AM CST up reply actions
I know what Jerry is thinking...
M-M-M-MONEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
It just doesn't really make sense sometimes.
At least Ogletree has made a few plays.
And as much as fans will point to guys like Miles Austin and Tony Romo as reasons to take on projects, they still need to remember that both of those guys made plays right away (Miles Austin with his playoff KO return, Romo with his play in practice). A guy that couldn’t beat out Sam Hurd in his first year, is facing EXTREMELY steep odds of becoming anything resembling reliable.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 23, 2010 2:48 AM CST up reply actions
Austin did not beat out Hurd for 3 years.
Austin also did not have to try and take a job from a over paid vet(RW), a very solid #3 WR(PC), and every-bodies Golden Boy(MA). Why you are surprised that a 1rst year player drafted in the 7th round could not beat out a 3 year player that is a key STer is beyond me.
Well it is pretty surprising
because I would think a guy who apparently the Cowboys like at the WR position and a guy who will prevent the Cowboys from looking at WR in the draft (as has been said on this thread) would be able to beat out a guy with extremely limited playmaking ability. And say what you want about how Austin took a similar route, but he never was on the practice squad and I think everyone can agree that injuries were largely responsible for him not being able to become a consistent playmaker until this year.
I have much higher hopes for Ogletree than I do for Manuel Johnson because as a rookie he was able to handily beat out Johnson and then actually get on the field and make plays. But you know what, if you and the other Manny Johnson supporters would like to proclaim him as a guy that will be counted on next year then go right ahead. I just hope your optimism is consistent and that you have similar expectations for guys like Travis Bright and Jesse Holley.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 23, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
Hurd isn't exactly chopped liver
He’s a key ST player, and has very good size at 6’2 208 lbs. He’s got 4 seasons with the team, and isn’t even 25 years old. He knows how to back up all 3 WR positions. It took Austin 2 seasons to get in front of him on the depth chart. It’s not so easy to knock a guy like him off the roster.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 23, 2010 6:55 PM CST up reply actions
Hurd is gone....zero chance of him coming back
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
I think there's a good chance he'll be back
Even if the Boys draft a WR, they might want to keep Hurd and carry 6 WR’s.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 23, 2010 7:10 PM CST up reply actions
they wont tender him....
He had his time to make an impact and it hasnt happened. Time to go in a different direction
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
+1
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Again it goes back to what Raf says, if they dont bring in better talent he will be back.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Ootential is a form of hope and hope isnt a plan.
You have to believe the next guy is ready to replace him or its a dumb move. Ogletree might be ready to replace him in Dec. but I just dont see it before then. He ran a post, a few WR screens and an out, he looked good but I just dont think they sent him out there with multiple option route.
Lets let him develope right. Without being annoited before he is ready. Then we can maximize his potential and continue to build his confidence.
KICK ASS every day!!!
OK I won't
Bank on what. The fact that you do not like him and do not care about the financial implications of the move? It is easy to say cut him when you are not the one forking out 13 million dollars.
he banked on the Cowboys no cutting T.O. as well
Usually when he banks on something, it doesn’t happen. Hurd is safe.
In Romo we Trust
I will give you that he is a solid ST player
but I think that his ceiling has been reached. I would much rather use his spot to bring in a guy through the draft that has much more potential to make plays on the field and can possibly grow into a solid starting WR.
Everyone keeps talking about Austin sitting low on the depth chart, but the difference is that he did flash his playmaking ability in his first year (kickoff returns) and in my opinion would have broken out in 2008 if it hadn’t been for his injuries and then the Roy Williams trade that buried him on the depth chart.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 23, 2010 11:50 PM CST up reply actions
Like I said for Manny Johnson, I hope the Cowboys organization
likes him if they are choosing to keep him on the practice squad, but to count on him for anything next year would be pretty ridiculous. I hope these guys can prove me wrong, but just keep in mind that almost every cinderella story of undrafted free agents involves them making the 53-man roster in their first year.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 23, 2010 11:53 PM CST up reply actions
WR Bench Love
That’s a good point. But at this time last year, you would have included Austin in that category.
This is terrible
Why not Pouncey? He’s one of the best interior linemen prospects in the last few years. And yet you want to take a guy in Tate that would be our 5th WR. Makes no sense. I like the kid and his return ability would be useful, but you can get a returner later in the draft.
Pouncey is the logical pick, but I would also consider Weatherspoon, Odrick or Allen at that spot, although a trade down would be most likely. You may like Tate, and that’s great. But this is not realistic because Jerry is not going to admit defeat on Roy Williams just yet.
I don't like taking interior OL in the first round
especially if we have a pro-bowl player at that position right now. We could use depth, but we don’t need a starter. I think Pouncey is really good and worth a first if a team really needs one, but there are going to be a lot of good interior linemen in the 2nd and 3rd round in this draft. Lots. Maybe not so much center, but a lot of very good guards.
Tate would be our 5th WR? LOL. Have you seen him play? He would be the 2nd WR in no time, especially since he comes from a pro system in college.
Odrick would be a logical pick depending on what happens with Spears, Hatcher, and Bowen. But right now all of them are on the roster. And I don’t believe Nate Allen is a first rounder. I have him as a solid second rounder.
And Jerry will listen to Red Headed Genius. Just like when Garrett told Jerry to get Felix.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
How did Pierre-Paul fall out of the first round?
Everything I’m reading says he probably wont fall out of the top 15.
you guys act like we are loaded at WR
Besides Miles Austin our wide receivers are jokes. Ogletree MAY EVENTUALLY be a starter, but that’s it.
We have a lot of 3rd/4th receivers and Miles Austin. That sums up our wide receiver position. Unless one of you can name another legit starting receiver on our roster.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Crayton isn't a joke, he's a very solid receiver in this league
and apparently very under appreciated by the fans.
In Romo we Trust
he is not a starting receiver
he is good in the slot. That’s it. He’s not going to scare anyone.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
he probably scares most teams 3rd CBs
and so what if he is only a slot receiver, so is Wes Welker and I doubt you’re going to call him a joke.
In Romo we Trust
Welker is an amazing slot receiver
Crayton is just good.
And you are proving my point, he will not scare starting corners because he is not a starting receiving.
You guys have been unable to name me a starting WR besides Austin. What does that tell you about our need at WR?
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
LOL
He has been here for a year and a half and played like crap. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. He is not a starting WR on this team. Maybe we could trade him to San Fran. I think Mike Martz is their o-coordinator now right? LOL.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
actually he is the starting WR on this team
unless Olgetree beats him out eventually at some point next season. RW will be our starting WR opening day 2010 if healthy…you can take that to the bank. After that, all bets are off though.
In Romo we Trust
That is not what I meant by "starting WR" and you know it
I mean is his production that of a starting WR. No. Of course not. We don’t have another one of those besides Austin.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
you really think a rookie would come in and put up better numbers than RW?
Highly unlikely
In Romo we Trust
I think a rookie could come in and run the right routes
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
Yeah because a rookie has never had 600 receiving yards before
give me a break. Percy Harvin had 790 receiving yards and wasn’t even a starter.
Anyhow I think you could at the very least get similar production with Ogletree or even Crayton starting.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Roy sucks and would not start on half the team's in the league
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
Martz is the Bears new OC
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 23, 2010 6:56 PM CST up reply actions
Horrible comparison
but the point is that Crayton is a reliable #3.
The problem is we don’t have a reliable #2…
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
I think the larger point is that our WR corps
from 2-5 have a large room for improvement. Now obviously Dallas will hopefully see some further strides from Ogletree as he is still a young player, but guys like Hurd, Crayton, and Roy Willy need to officially be on alert since it is clear that their production can be improved upon.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 23, 2010 2:50 AM CST up reply actions
Crayton is a very good #3 WR
It is not right to put him in there with RW and SH. Also no one knows what to expect from MJ this season. He may suck and get cut, or he may blossom into another quality slot WR. Guess what, the exact same thing can be said for Golden Tate. He may be great or he may suck, we do not know. What we do know is that he will not be a top 3 WR for the Cowboys this season. Pouncey has every ability to come in here and beat out Kosier. He has played every position on th OL in college and was very good playing OG. He also immediately upgrades depth at 3 positions, both guards and C.
Well its funny you would say I want Tate
when I actually have posted several times that he is actually not who I want in the first round. Oddly enough, I think I agree with you quite strongly and want Maurkice Pouncey pretty badly to really shore up our O-lines depth chart. What I want is for the Cowboys to take a WR in the middle rounds (2,3, or 4) to come in and provide some speed and playmaking ability so as to help our special teams and our 3 and 4 WR sets. I don’t think we need to draft a legit #1 WR in the first (plus Dez Bryant may be the only one available), but we do need to bring in a guy to make our WR corp more competitive this year.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 23, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
Not loaded, but every position is covered adequately
Austin is our clear cut #1. Roy Williams will start across from Austin (more on this in a moment.) Crayton is a good slot receiver. He’s not the best in the game, but I would rank him in the top half of the slot receivers in the league. And Ogletree is our young, speedy guy we are grooming to be our burner of the future. There you go, every position is covered. Since we’ve already got two starters, a slot guy, and a prospect we want to get on the field as much as possible, what’s Tate going to do?
Tate could end up being better than all those guys. But I doubt he would challenge for a top 3 role this year. Those other guys are established. And taking him high in the draft negates Ogletree, to a certain extent. And none of our receivers are all that old. Its not like the situation we have at O Line where we need guys to come in and learn for a year or two and then take over. These receivers will be here for a while.
And finally, the Roy Williams issue. I’ve said this until I’m blue in the face, but Jerry is not going to admit defeat on the Roy Williams deal. When he gave up those draft picks and signed RW to that contract, he put his reputation on the line as a talent evaluator. Its not working out. But Jerry is not going to admit he was wrong. Not yet, at least. Do you not realize how much pride this guy has? Its a detriment to the man and to the team, no doubt. But I just dont see a scenario in which he takes a WR high, because it will signify to everyone that he admits he made a bad deal.
I know Jerry is a successful oil man
and if you have too much pride you won’t make it in the oil business. Jerry knows when to cut his losses.
And Tate comes from a pro system at a big school. He could start this year. But all the players you mentioned are not legit starting receivers. Do you really believe Roy is a legit starting receiver? You seem to be avoiding that question.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Not avoiding the question, its just irrelevant
What I think or what you think (which is the same, BTW) doesnt matter. It’s what Jerry thinks. And he has said that he believes Roy to be a starting WR. I can’t say if he honestly believes that or not, but he’s said it (or something similar.)
Ok that's fine but Jerry is not doing that mock. I am. (although I do think Jerry would have no problem cutting Roy in training camp)
and I think you’ve just conceded that we don’t have a legit receiver opposite Austin. Thank you for playing.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
get a clue quinccyyy
Jerry would never cut RW in camp, he’s due at least 9 milllion in guaranteed money next year, you think Jerry is going to pay that to a player he just cut??
Try thinking in reality.
In Romo we Trust
Agree, Terry
quincyy is kidding himself in thinking that he’s going to select a WR high in the draft.
Jerry cares more about winning a superbowl
why compound your losses?
I know it is a lot of money, but if in camp it is clear Roy hasn’t got any better, and you are pretty certain he won’t make an improvement this year, why would you make the situation even worse by putting him on the field?
The only thing Jerry cares more about than money is winning.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
don't kid yourself, Jerry would never do that...never
and seriously doubt anyone else in this world would fire an employee and then turn around and pay them 9 million dollars, doesn’t make any kind of sense at all.
In Romo we Trust
in a vacuum it doesn't make sense
but if you are trying to win a superbowl and this player is a hindrance to that final goal then that may be a circumstance in which you would fire someone like that. (especially if the owner of that team wipes his rear end with hundred dollar bills)
Furthermore, that 9 mil is lost whether you keep Roy or not.
Let me put it to you like this Terry. You hire someone to clean your carpet over the course of two days. Part of the agreement is you have to give him a $50 non-refundable down payment no matter how incompetent he is. He comes over the first day and shits all over your carpet. You tell your wife that you are going to fire him, but your wife says you already paid him that $50 for two days so you might as well let him come over tomorrow. Get it?
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Thats a horrible analogy
RW wasn’t very good, and I’m not saying at some another receiver might beat him out next year at some point during the season, but there is no way RW is a hindrance to the team by simply being on the roster.
Never going to happen quinccyy…never.
In Romo we Trust
Besides to cut Roy would actually cost almost 13.25 million
Part of his salary this season is guaranteed as well. Jerry is first and foremost a businessman, he will not eat that much money for nothing.
Roy is nothing
he’ll eat that money if it makes his team better
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
You have been paying attention to the economy right?
In this environment with a potential lockout coming in 2011, Jerry will not throw away 13 million dollars.
That's an ignorant statement
$11.5 Million is real money and will not be eaten by anyone.
You’re letting your hatred of Roy (not unfounded) and your man-love of Tate (well, just weird) interfere with your reasoning.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
and you have no clue regarding Jerry
and cutting RW wouldn’t make the Cowboys better, benching maybe, but not cutting. We don’t have great WR depth.
In Romo we Trust
It's not about the money to Jerry
It’s about pride. It’s about his job as GM, not just owner. It’s about his ability to judge talent. If he gives up on RW after trading a fortune to get him and signing him to a huge contract, he will look like he made a mistake. (Don’t bother yourself with the fact that he DID make a mistake, that’s not important.) But the point is that he is not going to ADMIT he made that mistake by cutting Roy for anything. He will hold on to him and hope Roy proves Jerry right.
don't kid yourself, it's definitely about the money
Even billionaires like Jones don’t throw away millions.
In Romo we Trust
You are throwing away millions with or without Roy on the team
the person who replaces Roy’s roster spot may not be as good right now, but wouldn’t demand targets and has more potential.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
guys like Jerry make great money not
caring about mistakes
by AustonianAggie on Feb 25, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
your comment makes no sense whatsoever
how is Jerry throwing away 9 mil if RW remains on the roster. He might not be our best WR but he’ll be out there trying to earn his money and contributing some. Jerry isn’t going to pay him 9 mil to play for another team, that would be stupid.
In Romo we Trust
yeah because dropping all those key passes on third dow
really helps our team. Sure Terry.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
you do understand, quincyyy
that if you cut Roy you will have to pay him AND the guy you replace him with, right? You cant just say its the same whether he’s on the team or not. It’s not.
Um yes and no
the guy you replace him with will be paid 800,000 dollars. Thereabouts. Probably less.
Part of Roy’s base salary is not guaranteed which is more than a million. So in all likelihood Jerry would be saving a little money.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
quincyy the 9 miliion is a roster bonus
Then he is owed a minimum of 3.25 million of his salary for this year. So it means it takes 13 million dollars to cut Roy and draft a WR.
Its about Winning and upgrading your roster.
RW gets another year to get it right.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Who you got better. You cut when you have his replacement on the roster and ready to go.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Ogletree has passed the first test.
He has got more tests coming to prove his meddle. He has been giving the first 10 chapters of a 40 chapter book. Still alot to learn and prove. I just think its to early to say he is proven. Crayton is maxed out, he isnt better now and he doesnt have RW ceiling for performance.
KICK ASS every day!!!
I don't know about you
but I feel a lot better with Crayton on the field than Roy.
Ogletree is a better player now and in the future. That much is clear.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Roy and Romo arent on the same page.
You can blame RW but its a joint communication thing. Roy is not Cris Carter with his hands but he is better than TO. He didnt forget how to catch. He is thinking to much. This happens to young guys with too much on their plate and guys who are very frustrated. I just think Roy has more to give us. I think he will work just as hard as last year and I think him and Romo will get on a better page.
If Ogletree is ready then let him compete with RW. If he is better he will play, if Ogletree isnt ready then be glad we have RW keeping KOs seat warm.
KICK ASS every day!!!
oh the whole miscommunication conspiracy theory
right… And Roy does have good hands; he just has bad concentration.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Come on you saw balls thrown to areas where RW wasnt.
Romo missed him early in the year on slants.
I just believe frustration mounted and RW started thinking to much. Thats bad for a player.
Your right as well, poor concentration, he was thinking and he should have been reacting.
We agree to disagree on this and thats ok because Im really the only one that thinks RW is salvagable. You can slam me next year if Im wrong but I will also remind you if Im right. LOL!
KICK ASS every day!!!
It is not miscommunication!
It is the fact that Roy cuts off his routes, rounds them off or does not check off to the correct route. Most experts will tell you the problem is Roy. That is why Romo does not have that problem with the other WRs.
I agree
Any plays that depend on Roy reading the defense and adjusting, without Romo signaling him, need to get deleted from his playbook. He’s terrible at it.
Drago says, "We must break you!"
by APerfectStar on Feb 27, 2010 9:22 PM CST up reply actions
Rounding routes me your not open or off your mark.
Thier were many ball in different areas and their were disaterous drops. Their was frustration at different times from both.
If you take half of the balls dropped and half of the balls thrown to the wrong area(either QB or WR fault) and include those in the totals then all of the sudden your team is much better.
No he still wouldnt live up to his contract but he copuld be better than what we have.
I just think he didnt suddenly become bad player or forget how to catch. I think if we keep him he will give us more production and another weapon for Romo.
KICK ASS every day!!!
WTF! I tried to correct some spelling and it erased some of my other words.
It should read "Rounding routes means you probably arent open or your off your mark some, Their were many times they werent even close to the same area.
KICK ASS every day!!!
You can't make it as an oil man like Jerry did without having some humility
Jerry knows when to cut his losses that is how he made his billions.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
This is the problem with ya'lls logic
you are concerned about what happens with Roy. Focus on what happens to the team.
Yes RW gets his money no matter what. But this TEAM loses money whether he stays or goes, and that is the important point.
And if he stays on the team, not only will he not contribute like he did the past year and a half, but he will be a progress stopper for our younger receivers
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
JJ's words
make me think he’ll be here, ‘Progressing’ himself
by AustonianAggie on Feb 25, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
what is he supposed to say?
Roy is a lazy piece of crap?
Until Jerry says Roy will definitely be here next year anything could happen.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Point is if he cuts Roy he gets noting for his return
If he keeps him and Roy even puts up the number she had last year he has something, even if it is not worth the money. Remember Roy did score 7 tds. Not worth the money, but it is better than 13 million for nothing. As I said above it is real easy to talk about throwing away millions when it is not your money.
Less than 600 yards receiving despite starting almost every game
Hate to break it to you but you are not gaining anything with those stats. If Roy is taking away time from a more productive receiver you are definitely losing something by having him on the team.
And like I said above, you are throwing away your money with or without Roy on the team.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Please provide some examples of Jerry's humility
And dont say TO because he was a locker room cancer. His situation and RW’s situation are not similar at all.
But I would love to see some examples of roster moves that show his humility.
RW should be here 1 more year.
You get rid of players when you have something better not hope of something better.
raf just wrote a piece saying you dont draft a player unless he can compete. The flip side of that is you dont get rid of a player unless you got his replacement.(problem players exclude)
KICK ASS every day!!!
Funny sh!t right there..lmao
"Coaching is getting men to do what they do not want to do, in order to get them to achieve what they want to achieve." --Tom Landry
Jerry should fire the dumb ass GM who gave Roy all of that guaranteed money
oh yeah…
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
And I think you've conceded
That there is no way this actually happens. When you start drafting for the Cowboys, let me know.
carlton mitchell
ok so the cowboys talked to mitchell during senior bowl week. there is alot of misdirection this time of year so i don’t think it means anything. smoke and mirrors.
it's called a satchel and indiana jones wears one.
exactly it is all smoke and mirrors
so Jerry saying he likes our young depth at WR right before the combine means squat.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
and so is the carlton mitchell thing
they will not take a wr in first 3 rds. period. the end. you can argue your point with the wall from here on out for all i care. i will respond after draft to tell you i told you so.
it's called a satchel and indiana jones wears one.
That's not a bet I would make
Hopefully, Cisky’s board is adhered to and if a good WR slips and is there in round 2 or 3 and he is the BPA, I am fine with them taking one.
Lord knows the giants have built a nice WR corps by using that method.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Pouncey to me makes the most sense
if I`m trying to predict who the Boys draft at 27, working against that is it seems to go against their history of selecting O-line in rd 1.
what tells me yes for Pouncey in rd 1?
we need to get younger on the O-line / we need to groom a C to take over for Gurode at some point / he can play guard and add valuable depth at LG / we wanted Unger at 51 last yr and missed / Brewster was selected with the intention of playing LG and we have no idea what we got with him after 1 yr. The Vikes took us to the wood shed / Tony Romo wants protection./ Safety can be the pick but great depth to wait until rd 2.
what tells me no? history / also the big mauling guards we covet can be had in the later rds /
But.....
if we get a wr like Golden Tate and still manage to get Ducasse in rd 2 that would be a pretty good start.
If Jason Fox OT out of Miami
is around in the late 2nd I will be very surprised. He’s 6’7’ 314 lbs and a 4 year starter, 3 1/2 years at LT.
Fox has health issues
He also can not run block.
Are you talking about his knee?
If so, what I’ve read it’s not a concern. So much upside with the experience and potential. He can add weight with his tall frame. I’ve not read that he has a big problem with run blocking.
How does he max out before he even
plays in the NFL? I’ve read he can play at 325-330 and still be quick and agile.
Fox could be Winston Justice
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
He was a joke at LT
but he’s been quite serviceable at RT.
by Mandmeisterx on Feb 23, 2010 6:42 AM CST up reply actions
Patrick Crayton is a good player, but is far from irreplacable. Az Ahkim at his best is the ideal 3rd WR; Patrick Crayton simply doesn’t bring the speed or the big play threat.
I’m not saying Crayton is a spare part, but when Dallas talks about improving the whole roster, his spot is one that can be improved upon
nobody is saying he's irreplacable
but to say he isn’t that good simply isn’t true. He’s a solid NFL WR who can move the chains, those type of receivers always have a place on any NFL roster.
In Romo we Trust
No one is saying Crayton is irreplacable
But is his position a top 5 need on this team? Is it one of the top 5 that needs replacing? I would argue not even close.
I would say all these are more important that replacing Crayton:
Young OT to groom
Young interior lineman to groom
Safety that can start from day 1
Cornerback who can challenge for the nickle spot (and even if this guy is the 4th corner Newman is getting old.)
ILB who can be groomed to take over for Brooking
BackUp Nose Tackle
DE to groom since one of our RFA DEs (Spears, Bowen, Hatcher) wont be resigned
Return Specialist
Kicker
All 10 of these positions come to mind before a slot receiver to upgrade Crayton.
you listed like 8 back ups
a WR would at least contribute with a few caught balls and some PRs this year.
If a great safety fell to Dallas I’d be all about it, but our current safeties have been adequate. Dallas is not hamstrung here like in years past.
A CB who can challenge the Nickel? thats a 3rd round pick. A 1st rounder should compete to start. OTs drafted in the first should start right off the bat too. Back up Nose tackle? Round 4
Return specialist could easily be that WR.
Interior lineman to groom? That sounds like a 6th round draft pick.
Safety, DE are the only spots you listed here that are very serious 1st round pick ups.
Here’s one last thing about Golden Tate that I like: he is by nature a gimmicky player, built like a RB with RB skills, playing WR. He has a skill set like Pearcy Harvin, not to minimize the great play making skills of Pearcy Harvin – but Tate has those too
by AustonianAggie on Feb 24, 2010 9:34 AM CST up reply actions
Not back-ups, young players to groom into starters
Sure, Tate could contribute in the return game, I will give him that. But if you really think you can get a quality S, CB, NT, or DE in the 4th or 6th rounds like you are suggesting, you are not paying attention.
I’m not suggesting these guys would be career back-ups, like we drafted last year in the 3rd-7th rounds. I’m suggesting a Safety who starts opposite Sensy this year. A CB who could play in the nickle this year and compete for Newman’s starting job in a year or two. And a NT who could spell Ratliff for 15 plays per game now, and maybe turn into a starter where Rat could move down to DE. Or a DE who could compete for a starting job as I think its possible Spears doesnt get re-signed. I’m not talking about back-ups but starters.
I just dont see where a WR is the top need on this team. Our starters are in place. Good (not great) slot receiver. And a young speedster who looks like he could be a long term solution as a starter. Why do we need a 5th good WR? This is all predicated on Roy Williams being let go, which is just simply not going to happen.
Crayton No Big Play Man?????
who ran back two kicks for TDs?Who came through in the Red Zone for Romo.
Tate won’t be there at 27 for us.Yes he will be like Jackson and not do much untill his second year.
The Super Bowl window is open for the Boys now and we need to upgrade a few positions and add depth at DB and O line.Take the best player available or trade down and get more choices.
by TCB Orange Dino on Feb 22, 2010 11:53 PM CST reply actions
Crayton ran straight up the middle
on those punts. What Dallas needs is a PR who isn’t nearly as dependent on their blocking as Crayton is (aka more able to make people miss). Plus, for every game you show me that Crayton was good in (the second Philly game), I can give you a game that he was equally bad (Kansas City).
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 23, 2010 2:55 AM CST up reply actions
Yes I like Crayton as a #3 slot WR
He is not good as a PR. He dropped almost as many as he caught.
I think Crayton is serviceable as a #3 WR but I think we could certainly stand
to improve that position in the short term if we brought in a guy to really excel out of the slot like a Jacoby Ford or a Antonio Brown.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 23, 2010 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
I would love to see us draft Jacoby Ford
He would give us a slot WR to groom and instantly upgrade KRs. He is also a 4th round talent so I am all about it.
Cratyton shows up for 1 or 2 games a year then disappears.....the fact is, he is old and slow and we could use an injection of speed and talent
Just look what NO and Indy do with speed at the wideout position. That should tell you right there what it takes..its a passing league and you need speed, not only at the 1 and 2 spots, but the 3 and 4 also.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
At least until Trent Cole
Orakpo, and Osi ran around him to kill Romo om almost every pass play. He does not have the feet to handle elite speed rushers.
I disagree
Ducasse has better feet than Flo who has owned those pass rushers. Ducasse has tremendous potential as a franchise LT.
In Romo we Trust
Man I watched him all week at teh Senior Bowl Practices.
His feet are bad. He has a very short and sloppy drop step and is not a natural knee bender. He was owned all 3 days by Graham, Odrick, and Alex Carrington among others. Sad part is that he was worse as a OG.
too bad nobody agrees with you
what I saw of him he had great feet.
Lets see should I believe Mike Mayock or some random guy named Flounder. Geez tough decision.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Not just me, I also talked to quite a few scouts while I was there.
But it is you little dream so whatever man. We will check back in a few years and see who was correct.
http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2010/1/28/1273837/five-who-need-to-finish-strong-at
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 25, 2010 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
That link didn't come out right
http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2010/1/28/1273837/five-who-need-to-finish-strong-at
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 25, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
Great line
Vladimir Ducasse | OL | Massachusetts
There have been moments where Ducasse looked great this week. However, when he’s been lined up at tackle, he has struggled. His footwork is average and slow, two bad traits. Ducasse is purely a power blocker, but he’s not showing it. Although practices are ratcheted down some, it wouldn’t be such a bad thing to see Ducasse get fired up and pancake someone
Gee sounds familiar!
And then he finished the week strong giving up zero sacks in the game and having two knock downs
There was going to be a learning curve with him. That was to be expected since he comes from a division II school and most everyone else comes from much better programs.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
and then in the game he displayed great feet
and did bend his knees and played great…funny how that works, huh.
In Romo we Trust
I would definitely put more stock in the all-star practices
then in the all-star games since it isn’t even allowable for teams to blitz.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 25, 2010 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
Also can not stunt
Must run a cover 1or cover 3. The limits on the defense are a mian reason scouts do not watch the game.
And...
how is practice even better? Most of the practices are drills. Not skirmishes. Your statement doesn’t make any sense.