Tony Dorsett on the Two-Back System
by Dave Halprin on Feb 4, 2010 10:06 PM CST
70 comments
My colleague, Joel Thorman, is down at the Super Bowl doing some coverage for SB Nation. Joel also helps run the Chiefs blog, Arrowhead Pride. He told me he was sitting down with Tony Dorsett today, so I asked him to ask Tony D. some stuff about Marion Barber, Felix Jones, etc. Joel was already going to ask about a two-back system because of the Chiefs situation. They need a Marion Barber to complement their Felix Jones - Jamaal Charles.
Well, Tony D. is old-school, and was having no part of the two-back system.
"I'm not a big believer in [the two-back system]. You pick a guy and go with it. You get somebody to back him up just in case he gets hurt. That's not bad to have - trust me. When a guy goes down you gotta have somebody that's comparable to him waiting in the wings ready to go."
"But when you're in there all the time, you just get a better feel for the game. You see how defenses are reacting to certain formations, how they react to a certain play you've run before and you get a better feel of how you want to make your adjustments and how you want to attack the defense yourself as a runner."
"Just doing that sparingly, in and out," he said, "you may get lucky and hit some big plays but that's not going to happen all the time."
I believe in the two-back system, but I can understand how if you're a running back, and you feel your the best one on the team, you want the ball - as much as you can get it. But with the economics today, the more attention paid to injuries that were shrugged off in the past - like concussions - the two-back system makes sense in this era.
I'll have some more from the interview tomorrow, including Tony's detailed account of the famous 99-yard run. For more of Tony's interview today, including his take on the media at the Super Bowl from his era to today, go here.
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I can see Mr Dorsetts' take on this.
And with the way this league has turned in to a pass first run second game it would be all that much easier to accomplish with one back.
"The greatest test of courage on earth is to bear defeat without losing heart."
Why not two similiar backs?
You know all I here about the two back system is you want to get two entirely different backs to rotate. Why? Whats the bid deal? So if we had felix and let’s say chris johnson, leon washington, deangelo williams, or a young brian westbrook in our backfield this wouldn’t work? How about if the rams had stephen jackson, and jonathan stewart, reggie brown, michael turner, a young jamaal stewart or a young larry johnson. The idea is that two backs who are almost similiar in size and running style can’t get it done. I don’t know but I think I could live with a combo of any two of these types of runners and be more than happy. If your oline blocks better for a shifty fast back get two. Or vice versa with a bigger less shifty power back. Sometimes I think we over think things, really go with your strength. Don’t the dolphins basically have the same two types of backs?
Dolphins similiar RBS
One stoned the other getting pain meds for his injuries
Another factor to consider
The defense may have more trouble diagnosing the play with a single back. These days the two-back teams tend to use their backs in certain situations. Actually, whether its a lead dog, or a running back by committee, if you have tremendous run-blocking you’ll have a successful running game.
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
I agree, in today's NFL you gotta have two good backs
BTW, I met Dorsett the day before the Thanksgiving game outside of Cowboys Stadium and the dude still looks like he could play, like he was chiseled out of stone. I also thought was shorter than 5-11 but he’s definitely a legit 5-11. Pretty impressive he’s still in great shape at his age.
In Romo we Trust
If we had
a Tony Dorsett or Emmitt Smith on the roster,then yes, a one-back system would make sense.
But we don’t, so it doesn’t.
Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.
No it wouldn't
How many good 1 RB teams are there. Jerry should model the Boys after the Rams?
Pay attention
Nobody said anything about modeling the team after the Rams. I said it makes sense for us to run a two-back offense.
How many Dorsetts or Emmitts are there nowadays?
Keep doing what you been doing, keep getting what you been getting.
I just got in an argument with a Saint fan...
who insisted that Jeremy Shocky was a better tightend than Witten.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 5, 2010 9:40 AM CST reply actions
This guy is an idiot.
I actually got really mad, because he was like “well watch Shocky make a big play sunday” and I was like “Like Witten has never made a big play.”
This is his response…
“Well I never watch the Cowboys…” I was like well how in the hell can you say that one is better than the other?
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 5, 2010 9:54 AM CST up reply actions
Well that is not true at all..Witten is the class of the league..Shockey is a jerk
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
The big argument from him later this day was...
Shocky brings an attitude and blah blah blah.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 5, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
Trust me Shockey is a jerk..I'm not saying he isn't good I'm just saying he is a jerk..
And I don’t think your name/handle is too long..I have a funny feeling your Airforce.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
I am I am.
It’s funny almost everyone who has seen me on the board for a while automatically knows what the AFB stands for.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 5, 2010 3:29 PM CST up reply actions
I used to be a radar maintainer....
now I’m a civilian.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 5, 2010 3:51 PM CST up reply actions
ground radar
I worked on a TPN 19 and a 75.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 5, 2010 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
It's nice to know the military still loves its acronyms, lol
Don’t worry much of my extended family is military (USN) so I’ve been around a lot of them.
Actually..this is a true story..
One night I was flying back to King Khalid AFB..I was so tired I decided to take a nap..You radar guys saved my butt..As you know the F117A appears like a flock of geese on radar..Fortunately, you guys found the flock of sheep I was counting and woke me up !!..Needless to say I got my ass chewed out severely after that one..Plus they found out about me smoking in the damn plane..I’d always land and open the canopy up while taxi-ing into air out the cockpit..that particular night they found my water bottle that I always carried to dispose of the cigarette butts..I would normally heave it after landing or my crew chief would dispose of it for me..but the ‘brass’ was there waiting for me that night…lol
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
They did award me the DFC though..I often wonder whether that had anything to do with it..
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
I knew you were Airforce the whole time..I'm a retired Lt Col pilot..F-4, F-16, F117A..So
I knew you were an Airforce guy..and I wouldn’t care if your handle was 100 characters long bud..My call sign was Psycho..Except for Desert Storm then it was ‘01’..I’m just happy to have gotten back safely to be watching football again..I missed the daggone Giants/Buffalo SB..that really pissed me off..lol..I was stuck flying sorties and eating dinner with arabs.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Eating with Arabs
Nothing wrong with eating with Arabs, I do it every day. That game was a very good one and one the Bills should have won. Their best chance anyway. Scott Norwood for the HOF, not! lol
Ahab the Arab
I say keep an eye on this kid, this Louie the Looper. He's going places!
Hahaha!..Your right!..The food is outstanding!
I would have liked to see the game though..That is a riot about Norwood..Didn’t he get deported?
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
wooooo
Not my friend. Haha.. no this guy is a football idiot.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 5, 2010 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
how long until the draft?
"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST
This is a silly and myopic argument from Dorsett
RBs simply can’t last carrying the full workload. Most begin to decline around 28 as is… if NFL teams went to a 1-back system,most guys wouldn’t ever see a second contract.
That's why it's hard for runningbacks to get second contracts.
Runningbacks seem like they don’t even decline gradually, most of the time it’s like a wall.
I respect Dorsett, but this isn’t the first time I would disagree with one of his opinions.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 5, 2010 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
Well..Dorsett is one of few RBs that could handle that..
But you guys have Barber, Jones and Choice..So Tony was a bit off-base in stating a one RB offense is still possible these days..the defensive counterparts are just way too big for that.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Heck even Brandon Jacobs doesn't seem capable of carrying the load alone.
Plus there was just something wrong with him this past season. Could he have already hit the wall? I am wondering the same thing about Barber.
Well in both cases with Jacobs and Barber it is too early to tell..
How much their injuries played a part in their lack of production this year…they do take a beating so they may very well be played out, but we’ll have to see them healthy to find out..A guy like Tony Dorsett is a very rare thing these days..You could hand the ball off to that guy 40 times a game..I really believe that a big reason for these guys getting hurt is because they are not getting the right number of carries..They are constantly running on and off the field..That is what I agree with Tony about this multi-back routine we are seeing these days..They are always coming off the field..they cool down and then get called back in the game..that is a recipe for disaster for a good athlete.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Peyton Manning is going to take the Saints to school on Sunday
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
One Back System
I think the one back theory is the right one. The problem is finding that one back to carry the load. I also think that when teams find the one back, then they stop trying to find a complimentary back, as that back won’t be seeing any real playing time and the game is such with money and egos involved that a guy like Tony or Emmitt is not going to tolerate having another ego that large on the team and teams know this, so they draft or sign players who will never really challenge the one back guy. Running backs are a dime a dozen, but the true one back is not and they really know this and as such teams will build around these guys and that detracts from any other player really coming to the fore front. In Denver you had a string of backs that got to excel, but this was due to injuries and when the one back got injured, seldom did he come back and replace his replacement. Some systems can make backs better, but first and foremost you have to have a committement to that system and draft backs that could excel in that system. Dallas tried this with Tony and Herschel and it simply didn’t work out and while the dolphins were successful with Csonka and Kiick, most teams are not successful.
Ahab the Arab
I say keep an eye on this kid, this Louie the Looper. He's going places!
Shockey versus Witten
Is there really an argument to be made here? Witten is a consumate professional and plays his position in every aspect. Shockey is a product of the U and most of those players are me players. Now I am not knocking Miami, but Shockey epitomizes this type of attitude. Shockey is a talented player, I just don’t like his attitude. I also believe that Witten is the more talented player. Shockey is a show off, Witten is a worker.
Ahab the Arab
I say keep an eye on this kid, this Louie the Looper. He's going places!
Your absolutely right..You can't compare Witten to Shockey
Witten is the best TE in the league..period..and he also is a class guy..Shockey is nothing even remotely close to Witten.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Irvin
I saw today that Irvin has been charged with Rape. I have always liked the Cowboys of the 90s, but I am not of the opinion that these guys were the best group of Cowboys. That said, I hope that Irvin is not guilty, but my instincts tell me that there is more than just a slight probablility that he is or did perpetrate this act. Irvin just has trouble follow him around, and it seems that he embraces trouble. Again I would point out that U of M players seem to embrace the dark side of life a little more than other school products. I know this sounds again like I am bashing U of M peopel, but really I think the area has a lot to do with the trouble they can access, not the school itself.
Ahab the Arab
I say keep an eye on this kid, this Louie the Looper. He's going places!
Well yes I was shocked to read that news on Irvin..
Some of these guys just can’t shed themselves of their past which is a daggone shame..they are just asking for it..I don’t believe he did that at all..but I wouldn’t be surprised that he put himself in a bad spot.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Jared Veldheer talked to the Cowboys... and 29 other NFL teams
http://www.jbscouting.com/index.php/blog/482-veldheer-week6
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Well, I'll go down as the only guy here who will agree w/Dorsett (or 2nd?)
who knows a lot more than us.
The key point is:
“You see how defenses are reacting to certain formations, how they react to a certain play you’ve run before and you get a better feel of how you want to make your adjustments and how you want to attack the defense yourself as a runner.”
This is absolutely true, and switching guys in and out of the game from series to series is not good. They need a chance to adjust, get a feel for the game, study the D, etc.
Now: Backs today can’t quite carry the load 100% like they could in Tony’s days. They are getting hit with a lot more force (speed x mass) than he was.
But it is true that there really should be one guy who, if healthy, gets the majority of the carries and can get into the flow of the game. Maybe 75% of the carries.
I have been pointing this out since Julius Jones started sharing carries w/ Barber and suddenly couldn’t run anymore. A guy who looked great as a rookie! (Parcells also screwed w/his mind, but that’s a different issue)
And the straw man argument: " Guys can’t last today, they won’t make it to 28, their careers will be short, they take too much punishment, etc."
Who cares? It’s the easiest position to fill, you can always have a guy ready to step in, and you draft a cheap new player every to be the main guy every 3/4 years! No problem.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
Well, I agree with alot of what you are saying here...
I believe your running back scheme is alot like ours but unfortunately both teams had their number one component Jacobs/Barber injured all year..You give a healthy Barber and a healthy Jacobs the ball it takes its toll on a defense..then you pepper in the scooters..However, I agree with Tony from the perspective of getting the ball enough..No running back is going to be worth a darn if they only get an average of 10-13 touchs a game..There is a big difference between balancing the workload and giving your key runners a chance to find their groove each and every game. I think the Giants and Cowboys didn’t do a very good job of that this year..again there were injuries that caused alot of that, but even a healthy multiple back system requires balance in order to be effective or it won’t work..The number one RB needs to get the ball at least 20 times/game…Neither of these teams did that this season so that is why we’ll all be watching the Saints and Colts on Sunday…Of course we will be looking at more of a battle of two great QBs versus a balanced running/passing game this week.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
I think from now on, the RB that we want to get into the groove the most is Felix Jones.
Then bring in Barber in the 4th quarter if there’s a closer role in a particular game (not all games have that available), sprinkle in some Choice as wildcat or change of pace, but give the majority role to Felix.
If Barber left, I would make Felix the number one back, and mix in Choice about 25% of the time.
Well that is an interesting point..
What you are saying is run Jones and Choice early then hammer them with Barber later in the game.Hmmm..that could possibly work..Kind of a reverse strategy.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
We used to do it with Julius Jones and Barber
And Felix is a much better running back than Julius, though they are similar in that they are “speed” backs, that you don’t get big square hits on but have to chase around a lot.
I really kinda like this idea..
Get a defense winded via chasing the speed backs down and then when they are huffing and puffing later in the game hammer them with the big guy.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Speaking of RBs
The guy I want in the upcoming draft is CJ Spiller out of Clemson. Talk about a breakaway back with blazing speed and a home run threat and talented receiver. I think he could have the best rookie season in 2010 — barring injury of course.
I know it’s not a need position for our Cowboys, but if rumors are true, we do trade Choice, and Spiller fell to us where we were drafting…
Is playing smart too much to ask?
he'll be gone by the time we're on da clock
i just hope it’s to an AFC team…
Is playing smart too much to ask?
I have followed Spiller for year..He is a definite impact player..
Whoever gets him will be a very dangerous team.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
I meant "years"..I'm a Clemson fan..that guy is awesome.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
Spiller would be like a nuclear weapon in the armed-to-the-teeth NFC East, it would likely put one team over the top
I REALLY hope he goes to an AFC team so as not to drastically alter the current balance of power in the NFC East (which currently favors Dallas a bit).
Some guy who can blow up and score any time he touches the ball is NOT a good thing in an opponent.
And I LOVE Spiller, as I’m also a Clemson fan. I think he’ll take the NFL by storm.
There is another kid you might want to keep an eye on..
He won’t be in the NFL for awhile because he just graduated high school and is ranked nationally as one of the top linebackers..He happens to have graduated from the same High School my Son attends (Treasure Coast, Port St Lucie)….He just joined Florida State, graduated early with a 4.0 GPA..His name is Jeff Luc..currently 6’2" 240 lbs..He is smart as a whip and I can see him (if he remains healthy) a strarting MLB in the NFL one day…This kid is an animal..Nobody can run past him, he can fall back in coverage and pick you off and he can blitz and sack the QB..He is going to be a good one.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
What kind of ranking did he have coming out of HS?
Not that it matters, afterall Drew Brees was a 3 start QB in high school.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 6, 2010 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not 100% sure but I think he ranks number 2 in the nation, but I will have to check and will let know.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
I will also tell you that Jeff Lucs personality off the field is extraordinary..Since I am a Giant fan..
I would compare him to a young Harry Carson..He is a great kid…Even though I am a diehard Clemson fan, I am going to root for this kid.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
I just checked..Jeff Luc is the number one rated Linebacker in the country.
"When I was a boy and had no sense I got my pecker stuck in an electric fence..Well it curled my hair and tickled my balls, and made me shit in my overalls"
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