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NFL Drafting 101

 

I don’t like looking too hard at the numbers. I prefer to let my own eyes tell me the truth about things in the world.

 

I’m just not the kind to delve too deeply into the myriad of statistics that the NFL continues to add, create and make available on the web.

 

Like you, I love the NFL draft. If Dallas isn’t in the Super Bowl, then the NFL draft is my favorite day of the NFL year. Not because of what I know, but because of what I don’t know. Who better epitomizes the topsy-turvy world of drafting than the free-wheeling Jerry Jones? Predicting what he’ll do with his picks is almost guaranteed to be a losing proposition. But, as crazy as it sounds, I think that makes me love it even more. There’s more conjecture, philosophy and debate about the NFL draft by every guy who can count to 32 than about the merits of healthcare reform. I know; scary right?

 

But in this post, I decided to mix it up a bit. I went back and did a deeper-than-normal dive into the drafts from 2005-2007 (wanted enough NFL performance history between the draft and present day) to see if I could derive what, in my opinion, were any meaningful trends about drafting. Again, there is absolutely nothing scientific or mathematically verifiable here, just my observations, and an invitation for you to give your own.

 

So, I looked position by position at the first round choices and tried to see if I could tell if it was safer to pick a DB in round 1 than a LB. Better to go O-line or RB? I based my findings off of what I’ve seen from good ol’ NFL Sunday ticket and my own trips to the games. So, here goes…

 

2005

 

Clearly, this draft was generally a bust for the NFL as a whole. It was led off by Alex Smith and co-starred such future Hall of Famers as Matt Jones and Erasmus James. Here’s how it looked;

 

 

 

2006

 

It was a truly a turnaround in terms of talent from the prior year and maybe one of the best 1st rounds in the decade. Interesting choices;

 

 

 

2007

 

While not as rich as the prior year, there were plenty of gems;

 

 

 

So what, if anything, did we learn?

 

Well, at least over this short period, drafting a QB in round 1 was a bad move, although more recent trends with Sanchez, Ryan and Flacco say otherwise. If you’re a draftnik, it really makes you appreciate the QB class of 1983 even more…three HOF QB’s in the first round? Are you freakin’ kidding me?!?!? Running backs in round 1 were generally some of the safest bets out there. WR’s were, and continue to be, anyone’s guess. First round Tight Ends are almost a lock to be valuable contributors. Offensive linemen in the first round tend to be studs far more so than duds.

 

First round DB’s are the antithesis of O-linemen where there are more busts than booms. Linebackers are one of the safer bets in the first round and generated the highest number of pro bowlers in their particular subset (tied with O-linemen). Finally, D-linemen were a sour bunch in this exercise with several of them being non-factors on their teams.

 

And what does that mean for our Cowboys?

 

Anecdotally, it looks safer to take a Mike Iupati or a Vlad DuCasse than a Golden Tate. Skill players are the glamorous pick, no doubt, but investing in quality linemen on the offensive side of the ball seemed to have a bigger impact on teams’ ability to improve their play more quickly.

 

Now 2010 is a bit of an anomaly with the expiring CBA and different rules around Free Agency. Obviously, that will impact how players move (or don’t move) and change the way teams address roster needs.

 

Regardless, we’ve now begun the journey toward the moment when Roger Goodell will announce that first pick for the Cowboys and we can all start arguing the pluses and minuses of their actions. I can’t wait!       



Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.

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The problem with that is.....

Oline, LB, and TE are also higher success rates in the later rounds I would gather. While this year, at pick #27 the numbers shouldn’t be too daunting, but, paying that much money consistantly for these positions leaves less for the skill positions.

by ddthinks on Feb 5, 2010 7:55 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm

Other than Peyton Manning, who are they paying a ton of money to on the “skill player” side?

Remember, that team just set an NFL record for consecutive 11 and 12 win seasons, so I’d say they are the benchmark for winning and consistency over the last decade.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 6, 2010 12:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Missed your reply earlier, how did we jump to the Colts?

But, sure, let’s use the Colts as a benchmark. How many 1st round picks have they used on offensive linemen? Ugoh and Pollack were recent 2nd round picks. They are paying Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark market value salaries. I’m ALL for trading around and stockpiling 2nd and 3rd round picks to draft Olinemen and in future years LB and TE. But, to me, the high success rate means that unless I’m getting a freak level player at the position, I can be confident in getting a starter at these positions in the early 2nd round. In Dallas’ case, they have just been terrible over the years in picking the right ones.

by ddthinks on Feb 7, 2010 10:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

2nd round o-linemen are almost a lock for a bust in Big D

Time to shake it up and go with one at #27, no?

Maybe look for a WR who falls to us in round 2?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

27th pick is almost a 2nd round pick....

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 9, 2010 7:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Flo was picked what 11 years ago?

Gurode is good, but not great and he is a center. If he was all world then they wouldnt have wanted Unger to play Center and move Gurode to LG. It was going to happen if Unger was drafted.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 10, 2010 3:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They didn't want Unger to start at center

They wanted Unger to provide quality depth for Gurode and our guards and even tackles because he’s that versatile, and would have been Gurode’s replacement eventually.

Gurode is a pro bowl center BTW.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 10, 2010 3:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah they did and this was confirmed a long time ago...

in fact when Nick Eatman, Josh, and Derek at DC.com brought the subject up, Nick said not too soon after the draft they were told there intentions were to draft Unger and eventually move Gurode to LG…why would you think not? We already know they wanted Unger. What, you think they were using a 2nd round pick for him to be a backup? yeah right Terry….there is a reason why he is a starting center in this league. Sorry, Gurode is not as great as you think.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 10, 2010 7:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gurode is a pro bowl center

and I’m not saying Unger wouldn’t have moved to center eventually, but not Immediately.

And yes, they would have drafted him to be a quality backup right away. Anyone the Cowboys draft will be a backup their rookie year, we don’t have any holes other kicker.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 11, 2010 3:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Under wouldve been the backup for 1 season tops and Gurode wouldve been moved...thats a given

Unger is one of the best centers in the game right now in his short time in the NFL.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 13, 2010 3:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's a beast.

Mack is a stud too.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 13, 2010 6:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How do you know . Given smiven Thats bullsh@t and Ull telll you why.

He would never have been given the chance his 1st year.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 13, 2010 6:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

According to who?
Unger is one of the best centers in the game right now

This is ridiculous. Unger started a couple games at the end of the year at center, only because the Seahags starter was injured. There is no way you can state he’s one of the best. This is simply not true.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 15, 2010 8:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah that's ridiculous.

I think Unger is very good, but to say he’s one of the best in the game is absurd.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 16, 2010 10:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Strangely...

The NFL doesn’t have a lot of great centers.

In a league where Andre Gurode is a perennial pro bowler, you have to ask yourself, “where have you gone, Jim Otto?”

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 6:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

the point is Unger wouldve been the starting Center of this team in a year of being drafted..

they liked Unger that much….

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 18, 2010 10:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure if we know that or not...

Are you saying that Gurode would have been displaced or that he would have slid out to Kosier’s spot?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 18, 2010 2:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

That isn’t certain, possible, but not certain.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 18, 2010 10:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

that was their intentions yes....

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 19, 2010 10:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You know Dallas's intentions now?

Holy Crap, am I the only fng person that doesn’t talk to Jerry Jones on a daily basis?

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 19, 2010 11:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Jerry and I are going bowling tonight

Then he and I have poker night on Tuesday.

Wonder why you haven’t been invited…

Hmmm.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 19, 2010 1:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Probably...

because I cheat.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 19, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

not too sure about 2006 RB class being a jackpot...

the only one that got game is DeAngelo Williams, the other 3 RB are pretty much in the same class as Alex Smith(QB). Not bad but not good either…

by LiLGiT on Feb 5, 2010 7:56 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Would you say that those players are...

both worthy of their draft positions and valuable contributors in terms of their teams’ performance?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 6, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bush was going to go in the top 2-3 regardless...

There wasn’t a draftnik out there that thought the Saints were reaching. Houston’s decision to pass on Bush of course also looks wise.

And Joseph Addai has definitely justified his position. He was almost rookie of the year, and outside a few poor/fumbling performances he’s been well above average.

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Feb 7, 2010 3:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't Charley Casserly lose his job over that one?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No, not for that. The Texans had their best draft ever that year.

If he was fired it was because of all the terrible personnel moves he made before that. Philip Buchanon, Travis Johnson, Jason Babin, etc…

by DoomsdayD75 on Feb 13, 2010 3:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ahmad Green

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 13, 2010 6:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Another way to look at it

In that group of four, only one (Maroney) hasn’t been to the Pro Bowl.

Alex Smith wouldn’t be allowed at the Pro Bowl even if he bought a ticket.

In addition, they have 2 Super Bowl rings (Bush and Addai) and 3 of the 4 have already been to the Super Bowl as a conference champ.

I’d call it a great haul.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 8:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not too sure about this

Firstly, the sample size is too small, as is the amount of time the players have spent in the league. Secondly, your conclusion is also flawed.

Anecdotally, it looks safer to take a Mike Iupati or a Vlad DuCasse than a Golden Tate. Skill players are the glamorous pick, no doubt, but investing in quality linemen on the offensive side of the ball seemed to have a bigger impact on teams’ ability to improve their play more quickly.

That is untrue. While it is probably a ‘safer’ pick to take a lineman than a WR, that relationship breaks down when analysing individual players. Is it safer to draft a Cory Procter in the first than a Peyton Manning because one is a lineman and one is a QB? Of course not, because the success of individual players is not influenced by the success of others before them.

RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.

by aussie_cowboy on Feb 5, 2010 8:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

i don't think

Proctor was rated anywhere near what Peyton was rated coming out of college

by nicholas.rodriguez on Feb 5, 2010 8:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously not

it was exaggeration for the sake of emphasis. I was merely stating that while Lineman may be ‘safer’ picks than WRs, using that as logic to suggest that lupati is a safer pick than Tate is wrong.

RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.

by aussie_cowboy on Feb 5, 2010 11:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

thats true

using that logic to determine everything is wrong, but if we were in rebuilding and there was a Guard and a WR w/ the same grade I would probably say go Guard since we would need both and the guard pick would have a higher chance of not being wasted

by nicholas.rodriguez on Feb 6, 2010 12:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

brewster and doug free will develop into good players by next year

We have a consistent Kyle Kosier, Gurode, and Davis. Our only problem might be Flo, but Free should be able to play left tackle if Flo doesn’t perform. Remember that Flozell had some great games last season, I don’t think he is done as a quality left tackle just yet.
I would take Golden Tate first round, then Left Tackle second round.

Golden Tate can believe it's not butter.

by labone7 on Feb 6, 2010 10:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How can you say that about Brewster?

What is it based on?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 6, 2010 12:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you stole my question ...

At this stage, I’m merely hopeful about Brewster. The year off for study and weights can prove to help a young guy… I just wish he at least finished a few weeks of Training Camp to give him (and us) more to think about.

5B… excellent post, just rec’d … and only supports my hope that we spend 2 out of our first 3 on O-Linemen … in whatever order makes sense.

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Feb 7, 2010 3:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks man...

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Brewster is a guard, not a tackle to begin with...

Lupati is also a guard at the next level and if the coaching staff thinks that then we won’t be using a high pick on a guard….it would just be a waste of a first round pick, especially if they think Brewster is the future LG.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 7, 2010 7:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That makes sense

…but Brewster’s weight and injury scare me. If it scares the team, all bets are off.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you missed the point

When evaluating what to do with your pick in the first round, you look at a subset of draft-eligible players who are rated best at their positions.

Manning was the best.

Procter was…I’m not sure WHAT Procter was, actually.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 6, 2010 12:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I like it anyway!

Key is GOOD scouting, Strong, Fast, with non-stop motors. Oline is the pick this year, but again we have to see what left when our turn comes around. If all the real first round LT’s are gone do we take that outstanding guard? Guess he could play right tackle ( Columbo’s effectivness is quickly coming to an end- mark my words). Can Doug Free play LT? He hasshown he has the feet, but not the meat! What about a back up center? The dude on the PS from BYU is trying to learn it-hope he can!

by bad knees on Feb 5, 2010 8:45 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

You said a lot there

Is Dallas in a position to go BPA this year?

I dunno.

I can’t imagine they could draft a RB even if the #1 RB was there at #27.

But does that mean they should reach for the BOLA (Best O-Lineman Available)?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 6, 2010 12:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd say we're not

we have one very strong need along the ol, one pretty strong need along the dl, and we can probably go bpa at some point for a safety/lber/wr.

The OL just weighs so heavily that i can’t imagine us NOT taking ol with 2 of our top 4 picks. We’re risking our franchise qb’s health if we don’t.

by foyesboys on Feb 8, 2010 3:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Most would agree with you

…but I am not sure if Jerry will.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Super Bowl in his house in 2011.....whats Jerry going to do?

makes some splashes to make sure he gets there I would think..

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 9, 2010 7:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

little different this time around...

He has a brand new stadium and a lockout looming the following season….dont think that isnt weighing on Jerrys mind…He wants it so bad this year.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 10, 2010 3:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

he wants it bad every year...this year is no different

but my point is that making a big splash in FA or the draft won’t get you automatically in the SB.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 10, 2010 3:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Home team for a Super Bowl?

Just think of it…

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 7:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

exactly and Jerry knows it

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 10, 2010 7:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So, your position is...

that Jerry might do some crazy, whacked out stuff with FA and the draft because he wants it more this year than in any other?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 10:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

not crazy...

Maybe acquire a really good player through a trade or sign a couple of FA’s. or even move up in the draft to get an impact player..

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 11, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Got any names in mind?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 10:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think there is going to alot of player for player trades this year more than ever.

Im not saying Jerry is going to go FA crazy because with the current status of how FA is going to work it will be impossible to acquire alot of FA’s. I think you may see contract for contract swaps. Jerry is going to make a move or two, maybe even for a high profile player this off season.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 13, 2010 3:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Like who?

Brandon Marshall?

Merriman?

Josh Cribbs?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 13, 2010 6:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I never said it wasn't

but that doesn’t mean Jerry is going to sign big name free agents or make a any blockbuster trades either

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 15, 2010 7:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lots of GM's have to contend with that...

The question is whether Jerry can keep his cool and continue to build for the long haul instead of making some stupid, knee-jerk Brandon Marshall-for-two-first-rounders kind of deal.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 15, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he proved last year he's definitely more than capable

and I see Stephen playing a greater role in influencing his father in this regard.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 15, 2010 3:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How did he prove that last year?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 15, 2010 4:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He traded for Roy

Are you giving him credit for that one?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 9:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So you're saying that one off season

…after two decades as the GM who’s been erratic, egomaniacal and footloose with the team’s lifeblood draft picks, has actually proven something?

One of anything is not a pattern, nor is it predictive of a developing pattern.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 6:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no I'm saying the opposite

the RW trade was an aberration of how Jerry has operated over the past several years since Parcells was hired.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 17, 2010 10:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

When exactly has the Dan Snyder school of FA ever won a SB.

Guys that could actually make the difference you guys talk about will never be available.

Lets build through the draft and not just win but win every year.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 11, 2010 6:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Money comment!

But only if you meant that we should NOT trade down.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 12, 2010 4:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would rather not but if everyone that fits our profile is gone and its a major (15 picks or more) drop then Im ok with it.

I really dont want to in the first 3 rounds this year. I would rather jump up and hook a stud.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 13, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's been a while since we aggressively pursued someone in the 1st round

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 13, 2010 6:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

who was the last one where

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 14, 2010 2:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

who was the last one where

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 14, 2010 2:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

where we pursued a player?

Sorry…just getting used to my new iMAC

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 14, 2010 2:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Spencer, we move up for but that was after trading down so I dont know if that counts.

Damm, the last one I remember was trading up with Seattle to snag Dorsett. LOL!!

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 14, 2010 6:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

everyone knows there might be a lockout

draft picks this year will be at a premium. what even happens to a ‘11 draft pick if there’s a lock out?

and a bunch of teams might sacrifice the near-future a bit for next year.

home stadium? jerry wants to win it all every year

jerry doesn’t operate in a vacuum

by blee on Feb 11, 2010 11:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

Although I’d be shoooooooocked if there was a lockout.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 12, 2010 9:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

not me

Sadly, I fully expect a lockout in 2011 as both the players and owners are far apart and really entrenched in their positions.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 12, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nah

I think this time the owners will cave.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 12, 2010 4:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree

Jerry would normally be the one not willing to make concessions, but with the new stadium revenue at stake, I imagine he’ll be working hard to reach a new agreement. I wouldn’t bet against Jerry when it comes to matters of business.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 12, 2010 6:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think...

if there is a lockout alot of people are being stubborn.

Too much money is out there.

If your a player, that’s one year you aren’t making anything. Years in football are important too, because you only have so many of them.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 14, 2010 7:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Strike pay

;-)

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 14, 2010 11:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Strongly disagree here,

Colombo hasn’t been a stud at all. Please watch the Seattle playoff loss, the NY Giants playoff loss and the Minnesota playoff loss for ample evidence.

We need upgrades on the Oline and he’s top of the list. Doug Free came in and the offense didn’t miss a beat in fact it performed better in December without Colombo than it ever did with him previously.

by Luke. on Feb 7, 2010 6:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Seattle playoff loss..what 3 years ago....lol

If you can only point out three times Colombo struggling in 3 seasons I would say thats dam good play by our RT. Colombo has been more than solid since becoming our RT…freaking get over people and lay off the lets get rid of Colombo talk. He is going to be the starting RT next saeson so deal with it. Everyone forgets before Colombo came here what a disaster our RT position was…hello…..Rob Pettitti!!!!

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 7, 2010 7:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's not only "3 times"

It’s 3 times straight in the playoffs. What you are saying is how players perform in the playoffs doesn’t matter. I disagree, they’re important games. He’s also definitely played some poor regular season games too and only a completely one-eyed Cowboy fan would deny it.

Colombo sure was an upgrade over Pettiti no doubt but being an upgrade over one of the worst Tackles in the league doesn’t make you great necessarily. It just makes you better than terrible.

And it’s certainly not set in stone that he’ll be the starter next year at all.

The offensive line has been holding this team back for the last four years. If we take the "nothing is wrong approach" then nothing will change. They’re penalty prone, inconsistent and struggle with speed rushers. We can start to change that by replacing Colombo with Doug Free who is already a better pass blocker than Colombo ever was.

by Luke. on Feb 7, 2010 11:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I do agree with this:
The offensive line has been holding this team back for the last four years. If we take the “nothing is wrong approach” then nothing will change. They’re penalty prone, inconsistent and struggle with speed rushers.

And I’d love to see Free take Colombo’s place – if he earns it … I’d also love to see us draft at least 2-3 O-Linemen and pick up another in free agency that can be an upgrade.

I especially agree that this O-Line, while not so bad, has been the weak link in this offense. At times they’ve looked very good, but inconsistency and penalties are not the hallmark of a winning O-Line.

However…

I don’t even think Colombo’s the worst of the bunch. And given how much he’s improved since joining the Boys, I’m also not ready to write him off… by any measure.

Do I want to see someone from the draft or FA upgrade the position? Sure. But I don’t think it’s impossible for the current O-Line to get the job done.

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Feb 8, 2010 2:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

who is the worst in your opinion?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

this year..Kosier....

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 9, 2010 7:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Its not the RT holding this team back....

You want to focus the blame, then blame the left side because thats where Romo is getting knocked on his butt most of the time. Im really not sure where all this negativity towards Colombo has come from and I think many on here agree his is a solid RT. Immediate upgrade is needed at LG, thats your best chance at change in 2010. Im even all for moving Gurode to LG and finding a center through the draft or FA. Gurode is not so great that he cant be moved. That was there plan if Unger was drafted.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 8, 2010 10:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually it is the Tackles holding this team back

and it has been for several years.

Go watch the last 3 playoff losses – the Tackles stunk it up not Kosier.

Go watch the 08 loss to Arizona where Romo got pummeled and hurt and basically ended the season – the Tackles stunk it up not Kosier.

Kosier is maligned by plenty here but it doesn’t add up. I’m not saying he can’t be upgraded – if they think Brewster is playing better then great plug him for sure – but he’s certainly not the one holding this line back.

Here’s some facts and a question to think about;

Tony Romo was the 9th most sacked QB in the league this season.

Tony Romo is one of the best sack escaping QB’s in the league.

Offensive Tackles are the pillars of pass protection.

Who’s to blame for our poor pass protection?

I don’t know how anyone could answer that it is Kyle Kosier, the guy who gave up by far the least sacks of all the Olineman and probably the least penalties too.

by Luke. on Feb 8, 2010 4:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess you didnt watch the Washington game where Kosier was getting knocked off the ball every play..

He really tailed off this year which is why a upgrade is needed. Keep in mind when talking about Colombo is that he was rusty coming off injury. I think the guy deserves some slack because he has been pretty good for us.

You can blame quite a bit on Kosier because alot of the inside pressure was from Kosier positions. Flozell had a good year. His false starts were way down. Sure, he struggled against some of the smaller speed rushers like Dumerville, but who doesn’t? Be carefull what you wish for when replacing capable incumbents that have done good jobs for this team. Wade is not going to tinker with the line with rookies next year knowing we are making a run. Like I said and many agree, LG is our best chance at change in 2010.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 8, 2010 5:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's definitely not a physical player

He plays because he is the brains of the operation.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kosier struggled with Albert Haynesworth so do most Guards.

Haynesworth is one of the best and strongest DT’s in football. Kosier is not the only one who has had a hard day against that guy. Earlier on you said that listing the 3 playoff games Colomob’s struggled in wasn’t sufficient evidence. But now you list 1 game where Kosier struggled against arguably the best DT in football as evidence he’s got to go.

I’ll say it again, I’m not against upgrading Kosier. If it can be done it should no doubt. But it’s not a cure all for this Oline by far. It doesn’t fix the penalties. It doesn’t fix the pass protection. It doesn’t fix the poor second level run blocking. Kosier is actually good in all those areas. This Oline gave up 34 sacks and melted down (again) in the playoffs with a QB who’s great at avoiding sacks and has a quick release (and from the stats I’ve seen Kosier was responsible for 1 sack in the 16 regular season games. That leaves a lot for the other guys doesn’t it).

If all we do is replace Kosier and nothing else then we’ll go through what we’ve been through the last four years straight; the Offensive Line being the leading culprit for our missing the playoffs or being our exit from the playoffs. We’ve been "making a run" with these exact same guys for three years and three years straight they disappointed (of which Marc Colombo is top of the list not Kosier).

The first order of business for improving this Oline is giving back to Doug Free the job he earned with his outstanding debut stretch at RT last season. That move immediately upgrades pass protection, upgrades second level blocking and lowers penalties. With Free being young there’s plenty of room for him to improve his already very good game and make it great. Imagine that; a great pass protector at Tackle for Tony Romo.

The second move is to try and find the most talented Olineman we can in the draft (anywhere Tackle, Guard, Center).

Third is to give Brewster (or new draft pick) all the help they can to challenge Kosier for the LG position.

by Luke. on Feb 9, 2010 3:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kosier struggled with Tuck and alot of others also...

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 9, 2010 7:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Again!

Kosier is going to struggle against guys who are bigger and stronger. It’s his weakness and we’ll have to live with that until there is a replacement.

Kosier’s strength is his smarts, his ability to get out and pull, and his ability to help Andre.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 6:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You can't upgrade at LG unless you find another heady player to help Andre

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wish someone would post a link

To a reputable source, that states Gurode doesn’t make the line calls, or he struggles to make the line calls. I have heard this “rumor” repeated many times, but I still haven’t seen proof that it’s true. I find it hard to believe that one of the best centers in the game has that big a flaw. Not calling bs, just saying I’d like to see confirmation.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2010 6:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Somebody did that once

It came from a DMN reporter I think?

Either way, where there is smoke, there is fire.

And didn’t Parcells say Gurode lacked the mental capacity (maybe not in those terms) to play LG?

And now he’s playing center?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 6:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

thats Terry's pro bowl center your talking about guys watch it..lol

Pro Bowl…yeah, what a joke anyway….like I said and it seems you guys agree that Gurode is good, not great and definately not secure enough to think he cant be replaced. They wanted Unger in the worst way to be our Center. Gurode would probably make a better LG at this point, but the problem is finding a good center right now.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 10, 2010 7:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 7:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course they want Unger there. He was best available OL,

he is verstile and he was smart. If we were as hard up as you and the ever knowledgable DMN crew said we were, then we make dam sure we dont let him get away by offering more than Seattle did. We didnt make a play for him at all. We wanted him and yes we wanted him to eventually start. You kinda expect a OL drafted in the 2nd to start..
We made no play for the guy, must not have been all that.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 11, 2010 6:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dealing in oil wells...

and dealing in NFL picks is not the same game.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 12, 2010 4:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's not rooking some back woods pig farmer

He’s battling Bill, Polian. AJ Smith, Scott Pioli and Mickey Loomis.

He’s just not as good at this craft, relative to his peers, as he was his prior one.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 15, 2010 3:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well considering GMs really follow what their scouts say

He’s really not battling those other GMs when it comes to evaluating the players, however, when it comes to wheeling and dealing on draft day, Jerry is in a class by himself in that regard.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 15, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You said a mouthful with that last sentence

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 15, 2010 3:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Love the post 5B.

Pretty funny commentary, I’d even say Marshawn Lynch has overall been ugg for the RB class of 2007, it can be debated that he’s not even the best runningback on the team.

I think if you look overall it shows one thing… there is no sure thing.

Hell I don’t even know if there is a safe thing.

On a side note, it sucks that Greg Olsen’s talent will be totally wasted in Mike Martz’s offense.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 6, 2010 1:38 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Aint that the truth

Olsen and the TE in Oakland are stars that can’t shine while surrounded by dull talent and coaching.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This post also serves as a reminder to Jerry Haters ... he's been crushing it.

Look at the ABUNDANCE of first round busts on 5Bling’s list… and consider the success the Boys have had of late:

Ware
Spencer
Jones
Jenkins

Spear’s been solid if not spectacular (started every game/ grades very high vs. run)
Carpenter is the only bust in term of 1st round expectations.

After Ware (11th), all of these picks were high teens / twenties … making Jerry’s recent run even more impressive.

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Feb 7, 2010 3:34 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

JJ gave up a first rounder (and more) for ROy W. who has been a bust

but you are right the drafts have been good lately

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey

by Seanrude on Feb 7, 2010 8:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

... I hated that trade the moment it was even considered... I've never been a huge Roy W. fan.

… and I LOVE Anquan Boldin after he freaked for my FF league :)

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Feb 8, 2010 2:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair, Jerry has had some epic busts in round 1 as well...

Shante Carver, anyone?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's the old Jerry

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2010 6:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And 2009's draft?

What’s your prediction for that one?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 6:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't we all...

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 6:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm thinking right now it's an incomplete.

It won’t be high, because the first rounder was sent to Detroit, and we know how that ended, BUT if Jason Williams and Brewster end up contributing, you’ll have three players who are consistent contributions from a draft with no 1st rounder.

Also I don’t think last years draft is going to be that great for alot of teams. Last year was not a very deep draft.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 10, 2010 6:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm...don't know if I agree or not

Seattle had a tremendous draft. Best in the NFL considering very early returns.

The NYG had a very good draft (again).

Indy had another very productive draft (starting at #27, no less).

Minnesota got tons of value. And might Percy Harvin have been the guy we took if not for the RW trade? We got Roy instad of a R.O.Y. :-(

For only 3 picks, you have to like what the Jets did with Sanchez and Greene.

Green Bay had a fine draft too.

I have always been impressed with how Tennessee reloads in the draft.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 7:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah but out of the second round....

Who are the guys past the third round that everyone is just raving about?

I’m not being a smartass either, I’m seriously wondering.

The Jets did good but they also grabbed positions that are going to get more acclaim.

Seattle had a good first two picks but I didn’t think Deion Butler was lighting it up.

Most of the value was in the first two rounds.

Besides Kenny Britt who did Tennessee draft that was a constant contributer to a mediocre season.

All the value looked to be in the first round and a half.

They tried to trade up to get Unger, but no one bit.

Basiclly the Roy trade killed them.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 10, 2010 7:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I understand what you are asking

…but I think most drafts play out that way.

How many drafts get tons of accolades for their 6th round choices? I just don’t think that many marquee players end up coming out of the later rounds, as a rule.

The reason we can spout off names like Brady and Colston is because they ARE notable exceptions to the general rule that the better players get drafted earlier.

But just to add some color, here were some very good late round value picks;

Succop and Edelman in the 7th round, Bernard Scott and Brandon Gibson in the 6th, Johnny Knox and Jasper Brinkley in the 5th, Austin Collie, Louis Murphy, Brian Hartline and Mike Thomas in the 4th.

I think that looks like most drafts.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 10:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I gotcha.

I’m not saying sixth round picks, but there aren’t even alot of admirable later second rounders.

I guess I just feel like this draft is an incomplete right now.

If Jason Williams and/or Brewster contribute I’d be ok with that considering everything.

Hell I’d say Buehler has been a pretty solid contributer and at least Victor Butler showed some situational uses.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 11, 2010 11:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Buehler was the one bright spot

Phillips was a nice surprise. But it’s not like he is the next Antonio Gates.

Dallas has a need for its draft picks to become more than just special teams or situational players. The lack of quality depth at key positions, especially where the starters are older, is undeniable.

Dallas doesn’t ever come out of a draft looking like an organization that has a LONG-TERM philosophy in their approach.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 12, 2010 4:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree. Dont get me wrong I wish we had a 1st rounder and I wish we traded up to get Unger.

With the RW trade and missing out on Unger we go the saturation route. Our STs were much improved and feild position was excellent when we werent missing FGs. Withh no 1st or 2nd rounders we picked up what appears to be a good pass rusher, a TE who seemed to get 40% of O snaps and contributed something every game. A WR who everyone is high on and remember Brewster and ILB showed some early promise were both hurt most/all of the year. If these 2 guys turn into starters we made a good showing despite a bad hand.
If you compare our drafting with teams that have won 65% of their games the last 5 years I think we compare favorable. Belechik who is everyones Guru has done no better than us. We see how this class represents itself in the next 2 years.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 13, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Which of those guys, in your mind, is a potential pro bowler?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 13, 2010 6:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh a draft success is strictly based on probowlers.

I look for starters or major contributers for 4-5 years. I think those guys have a good shot. Jason Williams has freakish athletic skills. Many are high on Brewster but he never put on the pads yet so I might be jumping the gun with him. Bueler and the TE made good size contributions and for a 1st year WR Ogletree already has had plays called just for him. Thats a sign they really like this guys potential.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 13, 2010 6:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

so no pro bowlers?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 14, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Williams but only if he starts.

What I mean by that is he strikes me as a boom or bust. Either really good or STs for life.
Bueler looks like he could have a probowlers impact but wont be a pro bowler.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 14, 2010 6:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But you would agree that teams hope to draft future pro bowlers

Right?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 14, 2010 11:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

please dont be condesending.

Yes, but without a 1st and sliding down out of the 2nd. I wanted solid contributers and take a future HR chances with guys Like Williams.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 15, 2010 7:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry if that came out wrong

I wanted to pin down our disagreement.

I think your view of last year’s draft and mine is completely different.

You were reminding people about the contribution of the 3rd string TE and I was countering with a view that was based on Valley Ranch’s PR spin that they were drafting for special Teamers.

I don’t know if any of the guys we took will become starters or solid contributors because they failed to properly address areas on the roster where there was no depth.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 9:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No problem, I guess when they got snookered for the 2nd year in a row on a lineman

there was some spin, but I do think STs was in the plans. I think they like the guys they have. I think it might have come out better than even they thought.
The thing is, I actually think we are better at the end of the draft than we are in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 16, 2010 5:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There won't be any 1st or 2nd rd busts

And you can’t count Roy

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2010 6:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why not?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 7:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Colombo only was returning from a broken foot with a very bad high ankle strain in the Minnesota game. Put over three hundred pounds on that wheel and see how you respond…

There is no right way to do the wrong thing. GO COWBOYS!!

by CCBoy on Feb 7, 2010 11:36 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

They were playing well with Free at RT

I wouldn’t have made the change until Marc had more practice reps…

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i just don't understand the obsession with golden taint

i don’t want him, if only for the fact that he doesn’t shut up

by CowboysFan4Life on Feb 7, 2010 6:44 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

He fills a position we need.....dangerous, speedy WR and PR...

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 7, 2010 7:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i'll give you he would solve PR

but i don’t want to waste our first rd pick on a PR…

by CowboysFan4Life on Feb 7, 2010 7:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So...you're not in favor of signing Skyler Green back?

:-)

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

haha

i still can’t believe how bad he was

by CowboysFan4Life on Feb 9, 2010 7:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Best WR in the draft

don’t see why you wouldn’t want him.

RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.

by aussie_cowboy on Feb 7, 2010 7:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

exactly aussie....

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 7, 2010 7:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

nah

dez bryant…. arrelius benn…. i wouldn’t want him cause i dnt want a diva on the field…. and i don’t want to waste a first rd pick on a position we don’t need, i’d much rather pick OL, or safety… even DE

by CowboysFan4Life on Feb 7, 2010 7:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hate to break to you, but WR is a position of need considering who is going and who will be going very soon...

Hurd gone, Crayton….one foot out the door or on the verge of being demoted..slow, on the bad side of 30..Ogletree…love him, but still and unknown….RW? we know are feelings about him….Austin the only true WR we have that we know can get the job done. All the others are unknowns and certainly shouldnt stop us from drafting a playmaking WR.

Jerry wants the SB in his house next year in the worst way so I expect him to add more playmakers. NO and Indy should all you need to know .

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 8, 2010 10:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Strangely...

I agree.

I think it’s a point of need but not one you overdraft for. If it gets down there and Tate is available and you think he’s worth it.. you draft him.

If an OT or OG gets there and you think it’s best value… draft him.

I think it’s just important that they get a need but get best available, don’t reach because you need a WR.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 2:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Best Value

is the big point. Add to this that all the WRs aren’t going to help if Tony continues to end up on his butt. Need to improve the Oline. But the value has to be there.

by oldboysfan on Feb 8, 2010 5:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Then you need to find a solution because a rookie draft pick wont help solve the problem...

improving the LG spot would be a start….otherwise immeidate help will need to come from FA..

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 8, 2010 5:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is there anyone in FA who could be an upgrade?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Jerry would have to make a trade unless some team really wants to dump salary...

otherwise were not going to find starting quality lineman in free agency.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 9, 2010 7:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Where is this strange notion you have...

that rookie offensive lineman never contribute?

It happens… ALL the time.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 9, 2010 8:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Joe Thomas!!!

Actually, many people said Loadholt wouldn’t amount to much and he seemed solid for the Vikes…

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 11:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Joe Thomas was the 3rd overall pick....the talent level where we are picking isnt even close...

in fact, most of first round tackles around where we are at are projected to be guards or need work.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 9, 2010 7:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Marcus McNeil of the Chargers

Second round pick, seventh offensive lineman overall, was a Pro Bowler his rookie year.

Helped Tomlinson to his record year (most of his long runs came left side that year).

Was not called for a holding penalty his entire rookie season.

by Luke. on Feb 9, 2010 3:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep it happens all the time.

Larry Allen was a second rounder

Unger started immediately last year.

Loadholt started immediatly last year.

Louis Vasquez started immediatly last year for the Chargers.

It happens allllll the time, and yet there is one poster on here that fails to see that it happens.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 9, 2010 3:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Mcneil tailed off since his rookie year...

Unger is a center, not a LT… LA was a guard not a LT. Sure it happens, but its rare. Sorry dude, no rookie is displacing Flozell next season. You want change, than hope Free just blows up in training camp and they have to replace Flozell with Free. Otherwise, Flozell and Colombo are your two starting tackles in 2010.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 9, 2010 7:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not talking about Flozell

but Flozell isn’t the only offensive lineman that is a concern.

You make it seem like rookie offensive lineman never contribute right away and that’s nots true at all.

Plus you also have equally ridiculous idea to not draft offensive linemen early at all because of “luck”.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 9, 2010 8:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not on this team they dont...

just look at the poor drafting history of lineman on this team…Gurode good, not great..Flozell, LA…11+ years ago. Im not saying it doesnt happen, but it doesnt happen with this team and Jerry knows it.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 10, 2010 3:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But you don't NOT draft based on luck.

That’s stupid.

You don’t draft based on luck, you draft based on your scouting department.

You get better.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 10, 2010 3:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

exactly, history means nothing

Jerry is listening to Ciskowski now and that makes a world of difference in our drafts.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 10, 2010 3:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's cool

Jerry invested in Rabbits’ feet, 4 leaf clovers, and horseshoes. He is prepared this year.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2010 6:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 6:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and what about Micheal Ohler

he was drafted #23 last year and is an absolute stud.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 10, 2010 8:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's "Oher"

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 2:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

typo, my bad

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 10, 2010 3:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

not saying it doesnt happen, but its rare finding a quality tackle not drafting in the top 10 being able to start right away..

Ravens had no choice starting him either with their LT retiring. If Odgen didnt retire he wouldve been a backup, or maybe not even drafted at all by them.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 10, 2010 3:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

doesn't take away the fact that

stud tackles are available in the late first rd. Oher is proof.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 10, 2010 3:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

not this year there not....

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 10, 2010 7:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually...he's right (doh! that hurt...)

There are MORE top-rated OT’s in this draft than in last year’s.

2009: the Smiths, Monroe and Oher.

2010 (could change after Combine and pro days): Okung, Bulaga, Anthony Davis, Bruce Campbell and Trent Williams. Charles Brown is hovering around late round 1 and early round 2 from what I’ve read.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 7:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

around where we are picking?

im not talking top 15 im talking after…..alot of these guys around where we are picking are guards or projected to be guards at the next level

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 10, 2010 7:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Which do you think will be guards?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 10:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

ok

when you put it that way, i guess you have a point….i tend to forget crayton is getting old…

i guess all we can hope for at this point is for roy to maybe realize the position he is in… as for ogletree, i think he’ll stick around for a while, its up to him to make plays when he has the chance… ok ok im coming around to the idea of drafting a wr

by CowboysFan4Life on Feb 9, 2010 7:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

YES!

I would love to see a stud DE at #27

As you know, I’d advocate Dan Williams and moving Rat to DE, too.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dan Williams will be long gone by #27.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 9, 2010 12:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not so sure...

How many DT’s do you expect to go before #27?

Suh and McCoy are locks, but how many teams drafting from 1-26 do you think will go DT/NT with their first pick?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 8:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

From what I hear...

Dan Williams might be the second NT prospect in the draft. It is possible a 3-4 team reaches for him.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 9, 2010 9:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I lump them all together as interior linemen

It’s highly doubtful he could leapfrog either Suh or McCoy (whom some have rated the #1 DT).

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 11:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

NOOOOOO

no way no how does he leapfrog McCoy or Suh!

Suh and McCoy could go 1-2

I’m just saying he could be gone before dallas.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 9, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well he is the prototypical 3-4 NT compared to Suh and McCoy.

I see no way that Williams gets by Denver, Miami, Pittsburgh, and Arizona (Suh and McCoy will be gone in the top 5).

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 9, 2010 9:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well I'd be suprised if...

if Pittsburg did because they just drafted Ziggy Hood last year, but that’s kind of how I was thinking.

So many teams value a true NT.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 9, 2010 10:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Casey Hampton is expected to leave this year

and I am pretty sure that Ziggy Hood plays DE for the Steelers since he is only 300 pounds.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 1:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But they won't go with Williams in round 1

…and neither will Miami.

Denver will definitely go defense, but I think they want to see if Dumervil needs a big payday before they do anything.

Also , it seems AZ will make a run at Hampton (old ties) if he goes.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 4:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I personally think Miami will.

Denver will take Dez Bryant after unloading Brandon Marshall and therefore Miami will more or less be forced to look for defense. At that point it will come down to upgrading their OLBs or DT (Jason Ferguson was their starter this year) and I think Dan Williams will be a much better value than Sergio Kindle or Jerry Hughes.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 6:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Has Tuna EVER taken an interior an NT in round 1?

His most recent:

Vontae Davis, Jake Long, Ware & Spears, Julius Jones, T-New.

I was lookking back to his time in NE and with the Jets. He took QB, WR, DB, LB and O-line. No DT’s and no NT.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 7:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That is a valid point.

I had not looked into that. At the same time though, I think Miami taking him would make perfect sense for their organization. As for what they will do, that very well maybe different.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 7:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know about that...

I think Dez Bryant is by far the best in the draft.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 7, 2010 8:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

Dez is the top WR

Tate is in the battle for 2nd best with Benn, and Damian Williams. (I’d put him at #2)

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 7, 2010 9:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Benn is a beast too

Look at the #’s he put up with Juice Williams throwing him the ball.

Juice Williams!!!!

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Benn certainly seems to have all the physical tools you would want from a stud WR.

He is big, strong, and has a great top speed. From what I read, it seems most concerns about him center around his deficiency in refined WR skills (i.e. route-running). My personal problem is that I would probably like to draft a WR with a little more natural acceleration so as to get guy that can contribute quickly as a deep threat and a return man.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 9, 2010 12:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's a true deep threat

Let me say this again…

JUICE…FREAKIN…WILLIAMS!!!

The knock on Benn seems to be around maturity, not talent.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 8:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Never did a player suck so bad at his position yet have such an NFL-ready name

One…more…time!!!

JUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUICE WILLIAMS!!!

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 11:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's no Juice Newton

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2010 6:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But then, who is?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 6:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I am not so sure.

He makes a lot of his catches on bubble screens and averaged only 12.9 ypc. I will definitely say that he has a great top speed, but I guess I personally would like a guy that can get up to speed quicker. Don’t get me wrong though, if he could fall to us in the second round I would be quite happy with taking him, but I still have an image in my head of a Terry Glenn-type receiver.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 9, 2010 9:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The bubble screen is the only pass that Juice Williams (said it again!) can complete!

…don’t fault the guy with elite deep speed for that.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 2:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well we will see...

It will be extremely interesting to see what he runs and how he does in the drills. But back to my original point, if we were considering drafting him, then I hope he plans on taking part in the return game.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 3:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's shifty enough

…but why not actually draft a DB who could also help us in the return game in the 3rd or 4th round?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 4:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That would be fine by me

but those types of players are more limited and it would also mean that all of a sudden we are using a higher draft pick on a 4th cornerback rather than looking at using that pick for potentially a 3rd WR.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 6:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lynn Swann, Frank Gifford, Keyshawn, Steve Smith (who murders us in the middle of the field)

Maybe you should reconsider.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 4:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I hate him

How does he get so open against us???

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 6:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know...

must not just be us though, he had 107 catches this year.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 10, 2010 6:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Impossible!

He’s from SoCal!!!

:-)

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 7:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

steve smith is good...

mike williams, dwayne jarrett, keary colbert…. not so good

by CowboysFan4Life on Feb 11, 2010 8:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How does that make USC any different than Florida or any other school that put WR's in the NFL?

This post actually makes the point about WR being a riskier proposition than a lineman.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 10:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the combine will get them closer...

I think Dez is top 10 and Tate is bottom first round.

I don’t think that combine will be enough to put Tate in front, unless Bryant runs a 4.6 or something.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 2:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

actually, i think Tate will move into the top 15 to 20 after the combine...

His speed and quickess is going to attract alot of teams…

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 8, 2010 5:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Have to see how he does in drills

He should run a good 40, but is he strong enough to draw comparisons with Carolina’s Steve Smith?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I just look at who is picking....

1)Rams-Nope
2)Lions-Nope
3)Bucs-Nope
4)Redskins-Nope
5)Chiefs- Nope
6)Seahawks-Nope
7)Browns-Nope
8) Raiders- Nope…well…. uuuuh.. I guess you can’t say never.
9)Bills- Nope
10) Broncos or Jags- If one of these two get a WR, it’d be Bryant.
11)
12)Dolphins- I think if they were to get a WR, it’d be Benn or if Bryant dropped. They have a return guy in Ginn and have other needs.
13)Niners-Nope
14)Seahawks-Nope
15)Giants- Nope
16) 49ers or Titans- Titans MAYBE, but I bet they’d go defense.
17)
18)Steelers- Nope
19)Falcons or Texans- I guess the Texans might, but they are pretty stable at the wideout position.
20)
21) Bengals- This is the first team I could see go with Tate. They need WR help really badly, but they also could use a TE like Gresham.
22)Pats-nope
23)Pack-nope
24)Eagles-nope
25)Ravens-Possibly.

Anyways just by need and how the draft sits right now before FA and trades I don’t see a team that would get Tate before 21. I think that if he doesn’t go to the Bengals or Ravens, he could very well fall to the Boys and they’ll have a decision to make.

If he falls past Dallas, he’ll be selected by the Rams or Lions easily, possibly even the Jets.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 9, 2010 9:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice

Browns could and should take a WR now that Edwards is gone.

Bills? It all depends on the T.O. thing. Bryant at #9 would not surprise me.

Word around South Florida is that Tuna will absolutely pick a WR and that they are fed up with Ginn. They would go with a bigger WR.

Titans certainly could go WR as they still need help spreading teams out to take more advantage of CJ’s speed, but I think you’re right and they will go defense.

Also, don’t rule out the Pats either. Welker’s future is uncertain and Brady still has a lot left. Julian Edelman is not the answer.

Ravens’ bigggest need is at WR, IMO, and Tate would be a solid choice for them. They could go CB too.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 11:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with Miami...

Henne wants a big WR and Tate doesn’t fit that bill.

I think the Ravens would take him for sure if Benn doesn’t fall all that far.

The Bills need so many other things that it’d be crazy to pick a WR, TO or no TO. They need some offensive lineman badly.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 9, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Browns have much bigger needs.
Bills have much much bigger needs (QB and LT to start).
I could see Miami going WR, but only if Bryant is there.
Titans need defensive help more than a WR. I think they will go best available DE.
Patriots could certainly do something unexpected, but I think they will look for the best available 3-4 OLB.
Ravens could go WR, but like you said, I think they will go CB instead.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 9, 2010 9:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But remember

…the draft isn’t about just picking what you need most first.

It’s about how the draft falls in front of you, juxtaposed with your needs.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 3:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You are right indeed.

However, if I had to bet money, I would say that it is pretty likely the Titans and Patriots are able to find defensive guys easy enough to allow them to go that route. For instance, the Titans should get to choose from JPP, Dunlap, Everson Griffen, or even Graham to be their DE of the future (my mock draft has them taking JPP). The Patriots will be able to choose from versatile guys like Sergio Kindle and Jerry Hughes to upgrade their LB corps or possibly a guy like Patrick Robinson (or even Kyle Wilson) to upgrade their shoddy secondary (I have them taking Kindle). I personally just don’t see those teams looking to WR when their positions of need will probably have strong, available players left.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 3:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I highly doubt the Pats go back to the LB well

There are serviceable FA’s for them there.

CB is another story.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 4:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well Jerod Mayo worked so well

in the middle of their defense that I think they, as of now, would look that direction. You are right about the FA options, so that could change, but for the purpose of speculating now, it definitely has to be considered.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 6:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Welker's injury is huge

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 7:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Julian Edelman replaced him pretty well

and I don’t see the Patriots dipping into the WR pot considering their recent success at finding guys late (Edelman being the main example).

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 7:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Brady is still pissed about Branch leaving...

and Galloway is done.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 7:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah....

Galloway has been released since the middle of the season.

I think pass rusher is a huge need for them.

I bet they take Kindle. He fits the Bellichick mood. He’s a 3-4 OLB/DE that can be moved all around the field. He is ridiculously versatile.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 10, 2010 7:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I did a mock draft

and that is who I had them taking as well.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 7:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dunno

Have Texas LB’s lived up to their NFL billing? I’m thinking Kindle might be another Derrick Johnson.

I think he has to replace Seymour and probably has someone like an Odrick in his sights.

However, I wouldn’t be be surprised if either Berry or Haden were on the board at #8. If so, I think they take that guy.

They also need a TE because it looks like Watson is on his way out. Gresham is likely to be there for them with their second pick.

Also, I wouldn’t put it past them to package picks and move up.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well....

Orakpo is good.

And Derrick Johnson played MLB.

He was never a pass rusher.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 11, 2010 11:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Patriots have the Raider's

2011 1st rounder, not their 2010 first rounder.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 11, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's a #2, not the eventual replacement for Moss

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ravens definitly do.

I think the Titans need alot more than WR, plus I think Kenny Britt is pretty good.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 9, 2010 8:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, at 12.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 3:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree...

but I bet Benn or Bryant fits their mold more.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 10, 2010 3:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Only receiver likely to go that high barring great combine numbers

is Dez Bryant and I think it is likely that Denver snags him before Miami can.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 3:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If Benn runs a 4.3 and shows no gear-down in his breaks, then all bets are off

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 4:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If he does that, then I would agree.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 6:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He certainly looks fast in games...

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 7:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree his top speed is quite quick...

The key is how quickly and how smoothly does he reach it.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 7:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ever tried to catch a wobbly underthrown ball?

That was Benn’s every day world.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 7:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he is.

RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.

by aussie_cowboy on Feb 10, 2010 5:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Aussie Domer

:-)

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 4:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

also

good post, always like reading your stuff 5blings….

oh and you heard it here first… matt jones will sign with the cowboys this offseason….i just have a gut feeling that last year jerry told matt jones to stay clean and stay in shape, and he’ll have a job come this upcoming football season… and that helps us out in not having to draft a wr, so we can focus on what we really need to in the draft

by CowboysFan4Life on Feb 7, 2010 6:47 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

So you get a FA WR...

that hasn’t played in the NFL for a year and that’s a big solution to your wr depth?

Hmmm I don’t think so.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 7, 2010 8:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, why do that to what has become a high-character team?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i guess i just can't believe no one will take a chance on him

he has potential through the roof… and he started to show his talent before he turned to the powder…. i agree it might not solve the wr depth, but i still think that jerry talked to him last year and told him to stay clean and stay in shape… hate on me if you will, but i have a gut feeling… not that it means much, but i’m all for signing him

by CowboysFan4Life on Feb 9, 2010 7:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't hate on you...

I just don’t think that solves your WR depth issues, signing him that is.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 9, 2010 8:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I hate on Matt Jones

He is a dumpster fire.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 4:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

-100 Matt Jones...NEVER happen..

he’s done in this league…there were a ton of teams that couldve picked him up and passed…that tells you enough what they of him.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 8, 2010 10:16 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

unless

jerry jones and the dallas cowboys told him last year to stay clean and stay in shape, and hell have a chance next year… unfortunately, coke isn’t really a drug you can say you’ve quit in a month or two… i think after a year of no headlines and clean drug tests, he can convince people to take a shot on him

by CowboysFan4Life on Feb 9, 2010 7:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sad, but true...

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 4:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well according to some people with more inside knowledge than us

Jerry will never sign another player with any history of drug abuse. So that alone rules Matt Jones out. I just don’t think he would add much. He wasn’t all world before missing over a year, so why expect him to compete for a spot.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2010 6:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Amen brother

I hope those people are right and that last year’s off season was the beginning of a trend and not an anomaly.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 6:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

WAIT A MINUTE!

I refuse to believe that ANYONE has more inside knowledge than US!!!!!

We’re BTB for cryin out loud!

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 6:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No worries, he's one of us.

His name rhymes with Mafael Mela.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2010 6:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Cowboys don't

deal with players who have issues with drugs. That’s why they had no interest in DeSean Jackson.

"Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends."

by DatNguyenNguyenScenario on Feb 14, 2010 7:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

since when?

Are you using last year to signify some sort of pattern not in evidence yet?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 14, 2010 2:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

1 TE a class it does not make

Heath Miller is good but not special and there were no other studs that year.

Also, I think Tate is more of a sure bet than Iupati and Vlad. Tate is a good route runner with good hands, who played in a pro style offense in a big program.

Iupati can only play guard and comes from a smaller program. Vlad Ducasse comes from a division I-AA school and started football later in his life. Although I like both prospects I don’t necessarily think it is true they are a safer bet than Tate.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Feb 8, 2010 11:45 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think his point was OL are generally safer picks in the 1st rd than WRs

and historically thats certainly true, although obviously there are going to be WRs drafted in the 1st rd who do pan out, just not that many.

Bottom line it’s hit or miss with WRs than OL.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 8, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no he was talking about specific players

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Feb 8, 2010 3:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No

I used Iupati and Ducasse to illustrate the larger point only because Dallas, at #27, won’t have a shot at an Okung or Bulaga.

Ducasse and Iupati COULD be there at #27 along with Tate.

The anecdotal evidence suggests that you should go with the O-linemen.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 9, 2010 12:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

why were they the wrong players??

I think both Iupati and Ducasse would both be players the Cowboys would strongly consider at #27.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 10, 2010 8:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why Q?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 3:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So your issue revolves around Tate (#3 rated WR) versus Iupati (#1 rated OG) and Ducasse (#6-8 rated OT)

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 10:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Q disagrees with you

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 14, 2010 11:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And it's I-U-P-A-T-I

Gotta get the spelling of our future franchise OG right!!!

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 14, 2010 11:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lupati is a Guard plain and simple..looked awful in the Senior Bowl...

IMO, I think he is overrated and may slip into the 2nd round. Point is, you dont take interior lineman, Guard, Centers in the 1st round. One thing to remember is the outside guys, LT and RT’s make the interior lineman who they are.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 18, 2010 10:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The top rated OG in the draft...

ususally goes on to have a good NFL career.

The top rated WR in the draft? Not so much.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 18, 2010 2:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're spelling it with an "L" just to piss me off, right?

:-)

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 18, 2010 2:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree with you about OG and OC in the 1st rd

There are plenty of interior linemen taken in the bottom third of the 1st rd.

Heck, last year there were 2 Centers taken in the 1st. Now that’s not normal, but you’re acting as though we’re talking about Punters or Kickers. It’s not unusual for the top interior line prospects to be selected that high.

LT and RT’s make the interior lineman who they are.

Steve Hutchinson, Alan Faneca, and Larry Allen would all like a word with you about that.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 18, 2010 5:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Some punters should have been #1's

Shane Lechler, for instance.

I agree on the interior linemen.

It seems like franchise OT’s never make it to Free Agency. You have to draft those and sign the Faneca’s, Bigg’s, Hutchinson’s, etc. as FA’s to remake your line into a formidable one.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 18, 2010 7:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LA had Flozell who is no slouch...

just saying, quality guards and centers can be taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds…We are not that desperate that we need to be taking a guard with a first round pick, especially Lupita who is questionable to begin with. If they plan on Brewster being the LG im almost certain we wont draft a guard with our first pick. Jerry is not drafting a guard or center with a first round pick that will be a backup…You have a better chance at seeing a tackle, but I dont see that either. The more and more I read about these tackles where we are picking the more I think Jerry will pass on them…

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 19, 2010 10:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lupita...

I am screaming out loud and pounding on my keyboard right about now…

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 19, 2010 11:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't it Iupita?

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 19, 2010 11:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

IUPATI

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 19, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's what I meant.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 19, 2010 11:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You dont take lupati at 27 if you think he is a guard...

I think he can be had in the 2nd round anyway..

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 9, 2010 7:43 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

He is a guard

And if Senior Bowl is any indication, he is only a left guard.

He may be there in the early second, but no later. Maybe trade back.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Feb 9, 2010 8:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm starting to think this is what we should do (contingent on finding a good trading partner)

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 9, 2010 9:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Because trading out of the 1st round in the Jerry era has worked well when?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 3:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well if you count the year they traded out...

with the Browns and then traded back in to get Spencer.. but I know what you mean.

I think it was silly last year because it wasn’t a deep draft, I think this is a MUCH deeper draft.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 10, 2010 3:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Last year's draft was a titanic failure

The problem is, in this fragmented decision-making environment that is the Dallas Cowboys, it’s hard to know who to blame.

Is it Ciskowski’s fault?

Jerry’s?

Stephen’s?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 4:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How can you tell if last year's draft was bad though

Half the guys (almost all the 3rd,4th,5th picks) were injured and missed significant time. The ones that stayed healthy contributed. Buehler was great (now if he can kick FG’s more accurately he can be all-world), Butler got a couple sacks and played on a good ST coverage unit, Phillips came in and took over Bennett’s job, and Ogletree might be our future #2 WR (sooner rather than later). The only bust we know of for sure was Deangelo Smith one of the 5th rd picks. So 1 bust, 4 contributors, and the rest yet to be determined.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 11, 2010 4:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure I can...

It’s just a possibility (however infinitesimal) that I could be proven wrong.

In the same way we predict how good a player will perform at the next level, we can predict how good or bad a draft was.

In fact, after 1 year of performance, I have far more data to forecast from than I do from a draft-eligible player who hasn’t played a down in the NFL yet.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 5:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no you can't

 There is absolutely no way you can with certainly that a player who was injured his rookie year is a bust which is essentially what you’re saying when stating our draft was a huge failure.

Projecting how a college player will perform at the next level is not the same analogy at all.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 12, 2010 8:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How is it different?

Neither has played…much.

Don’t tell a person what they are “essentially” saying because that makes you the resident interpreter.

How about just going with what I said above?

In the same way we predict how good a player will perform at the next level, we can predict how good or bad a draft was.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 12, 2010 4:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll tell you how it is different

Evaluation of college talent is based mainly on their production in college. What they do at the combine and pro days really don’t affect their stock as much as the causal fan thinks. The difficult part is trying to project how that player will perform at the next level based on how they performed in college.

When a rookie is hurt his first year, there isn’t anything to judge or evaluate him on, unlike college tape in the draft process. You have to see how that player performs in the league for a few years before any evaluation or judgment can be made of the player.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 15, 2010 8:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So you're forced to rely on the same info that originally led you to select those players

…so I’m thinking you are agreeing with me even though you want to disagree.

The problem is that the original info didn’t suggest a great crop of draftees to begin with.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 15, 2010 3:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

You simply can’t intelligently judge a draft class until those players have played in the league for a while… impossible to do.

And I’m not agreeing with you.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 15, 2010 3:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

come on...

you know you want to…

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 15, 2010 3:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It still would be the right move.

The fact is that it is quite likely that value will not remotely meet need at the slot we pick. Offensive line prospects go quickly in the first round and there are several scenarios that probably only leave Charles Brown on the board for us. Then when you look at safety, there is a consensus that after Thomas and Berry (both gone by our slot) no safety is really worth that first round pick. Continuing down our needs, I suppose we could sit tight and take a WR or a guy like Jared Odrick to play DE. For me personally though, I consider those lesser needs and would be quite pleased with trading down ten spots or so to pick up an extra 3rd round pick. Then, you could take a guy like Morgan Burnett or Maurkice Pouncey without reaching and also give yourself the benefit of getting another pick to turn into help at a position of need. Then all of a sudden the Cowboys could walk away from the first four rounds with 2 OL prospects, a S prospect, a DL prospect, and a WR prospect. To me, that just sounds smarter.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 3:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

To say that before the draft board starts to form is entirely speculative IMO

Saying “we’ll trade down” is like saying, regardless of how the cards go, I am going to double down.

It’s nonsensical.

Also, how often has Dallas used it’s first pick on its most pressing need?

Most would agree that O-line is the #1 priority, but how safe are we in thinking they won’t go elsewhere?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 4:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

In addition...

if you listed those teams who you consider to be the best drafting teams in the business, who would they be?

The Pats? How often do they trade down with their #1 or trade them away?

The Colts? same questions.

The Giants? No freakin’ way. All they do is draft the same WR’s that we should draft.

Dallas leads the NFL in undervaluing its #1 pick and it has led to deficiencies at key positions along the O-line and in the secondary. the 2004 and 2001 drafts are perfect examples of how that strategy is a complete failure and dooms the team to medicority (yeah, I said it again! HA!)

2008 should be a model for Dallas in that it got two impact players in round #1. And if not, just look at how great drafting teams put such marquee value on that 1st pick.

History says if Dallas trades out of round 1, we’ll end up with Juice Williams (I can’t help myself) and some unknown safety from Central Mississippi Tech.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 6:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Patriots traded down last year from the bottom of the first round into the second round when the Ravens wanted to jump up to grab Michael Oher.

As for 2008, you are right, I would love to recreate that magic. Here is the thing though, guess what we needed in 2008? Another RB, CB, WR, and some line help. Well guess what positions were really deep in 2008? RB and CB. That is why we got two impact players. Not because we somehow magically got them to somehow drop into our laps, but because the depth at those positions was so good that we were able to take our two first round picks and turn them into great players. For this draft, that draft hardly applies since by most accounts this draft looks to be heavy with mid-to-high first round OT talent and mid-round depth at safety, WR, and DL. Therefore, in my opinion, the value of our pick versus our needs does not match up. Now, could we trade up? Sure we could, and I haven’t ruled it out as there always is the possibility that a guy we really like such as Earl Thomas (who I imagine we like) or a tackle begin to fall past their expected draft slot. More likely though, I think Jerry would trade down seeing as the majority of our positions of need are deep in those mid-rounds (2nd-4th round talent) and to trade up would be sacrificing the talent available in those rounds. And history is good and all, but if Dallas does its scouting homework really well then no matter what we do (as far as trades go), the draft will have a good chance at working in our favor.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 7:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree vehemently

I think a stud OT will be there at #27.

The problem is that he won’t start in 2010.

Can Jerry subjugate his need to be splashy and make the smarter pick?

I dunno. I am counting on Stephen to help him get to the right place.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 7:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Campbell?

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2010 7:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Linemen on both sides of the ball from Maryland seem to be good NFL players

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 10:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What's a stud though...

Is it Bruce Campbell? Is it Bryan Bulaga? How about Charles Brown or Trent Williams? The key is how strongly the organization feels about these guys to use a first round pick on them and who actually falls. Personally, I think there is no way the Cowboys even get a look at Okung (obviously), Davis, or Bulaga. After that, there are some question marks as to who and how far people will fall. Personally, I think this might be a year reminiscent of 2008 where the top tackles were gobbled up and teams like the Texans started reaching on guys like Duane Brown (previously thought to be a 2nd round pick at best). As such, I think Cambell’s workouts will certainly make him go early. At that point, I could see the Cowboys being left to decide between Trent Williams and Charles Brown. Brown was a ZBS guy at USC and I am not so sure the organization would want to have to use a 1st round pick on a guy that would need to develop a lot. Then you have Williams. He is a true question mark because some scouts breakdowns of him are not very positive, yet he had a pretty good college career (All-American). I guess the key will be how this organization’s evaluation of these tackles match up to who is available. For this reason, I am not so positive that a tackle this organization would want will be there.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 7:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Williams may go in the top 20

Trent Williams is a RT and needs work as it is….

Weaknesses:
Lacks a nasty demeanor
Not very physical in run game
Sometimes lets rushers into body
Occasionally has bad posture
Must sustain blocks at higher level
Lapses in concentration
Looks a little stiff with knee bend

Charles Brown is undersized and some think he has maxed out with his size, meaning he will struggle to gain weight. He is a former TE turned OL. He isn’t even 300 lbs. He sounds like a player that will need at least 2 years to even compete.

Lacks some serious upper body strength
Lacks mass in arms/chest/torso
Is his frame maxed out? Is he a bulked-up former tight end?
Occasionally overextends; must be more patient
Weak hand punch

like Okung, Bruce Campbell is a top 10 pick so they are out of the question.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 10, 2010 8:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Go read the write up on Jonathan Ogden

Looks a lot like Trent Williams’.

I don’t like Charles Brown. He is a converted TE who needs to get bigger and stronger.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 10:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Answer

Any of those I mentioned would be a stud compared to Dallas’ current fall-back strategy if Flozell goes down or sees his play decline even more precipitously.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 10:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you would take someone like Charles Brown over Free?

Thats Flozells backup…Brown is a backup for 2 years at least..he is not even close to being NFL ready.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 11, 2010 10:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Brown, no. I already weighed in on Brown.

Ducasse, yes.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

First of all

I am quite aware that all draft talk is speculative. Anyone who doesn’t think that is out of their minds considering that every mock draft tries to predict and guess so many variables for each pick that eventually there are so many combinations of what could happen that really selling a mock draft as real fact or something more substantial than an opinionated guess is bogus.

As for what I wrote, within that speculative arena, I think it is fair for me to create that “draft board” based off my opinion of players and needs (unless of course you know someone who could loan me the Cowboy’s draft board) as of right now (I even did a mock draft on Mocking the Draft a few weeks ago to kind of let it play out in my head). Nowhere did I say that my opinions could not be changed or that they would not be updated as combine numbers and pro day results begin to roll in. Due to this, I think it is quite fair for me to speculate on what represents value and give my opinion on the best course of action with respect to my personal views on how the beginning of the draft will go down. As such, in my opinion, I think we should trade down based off how I think the draft will go (outlined above) with respect to my thoughts on our perceived areas of need (I included my top two for the most discussion OL & S). If you don’t agree, that is fine by me, but I would suggest perhaps disagreeing on the basis of an alternative move or my evaluations rather than calling my opinion speculative (and somehow therefore nonsensical despite the fact that every opinion about the draft is speculative to a degree).

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 7:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure this year's draft board will be photographed and put out shortly

You’re obviouslyu right about the speculative piece, but I was pointing out that the idea that we should trade down in advance of seeing who goes where leaves little room for creativity of thought.

You have to look atthe draft in terms of what-if’s.

What if Ducasse is there?

What if Dan Williams is there?

What if Benn is there? Tate?

Do you still trade down in all of thsoe scenarios?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 7:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just to be clear, I wouldn’t want us to trade down now. I think that you are of course right that we should let the chips fall to see if some teams react in a way that is unexpected. I suppose my point was that if things go as I think they will (always a risky business) than it appears as of now (minus combine numbers and such) that the greatest value will be in trading down.

As far as your questions, here are my thoughts:

Ducasse? I would trade down for sure if he is the best guy available at our positions of need.

Dan Williams? I actually would have a hard time deciding this one. I have long been on the bandwagon to switch Rat to DE, and Williams might just be the guy to do it since by all accounts he is that prototypical 3-4 NT. On the other hand, there are some concerns about his consistency and if he does in fact fall this far, I am sure we could find some willing draft partners looking to trade back to get him. This decision I would have to trust to professional scouts.

Benn and/or Tate? I would personally be inclined to trade down (unless one of them puts up insane or very unexpected numbers at the combine). I think to invest a first rounder in a position that is as risky as WR when we have more pressing needs (plus I like the depth in this year’s WR class) would not be that great. Like I said though, if one or both of them have a really impressive showing at the combine, I would perhaps reconsider my position.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 7:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Have I told you how much I admire your...

ability to agree with me on moving Rat to DE?

:-)

I think I’ve been clear about the fact that I hate trading down, unless it gets us a #1 in 2011. Trading out of round 1 for multiple lower round picks on a team that needs some front line holes filled is just QWAYZEE. It just makes no sense.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 7:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

For the sake of clarity,

when I say trade down, I picture moving back into the top half of the second round and picking up an extra 3rd round pick.

As for the Ratliff deal, I see no reason to settle for a status quo of Ratliff-Spears-Olshansky when we could get much better at DE with Ratliff and bring in a guy at NT to make some plays for us there. The key to that would be to find a legitimately good 3-4 DT.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 7:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 10, 2010 8:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You are preching to the converted, in my case...

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 10:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh that was great, wasn't it
I’m sure this years draft board will be photographed and put out shortly

Igniting a firestorm of controversy. Was that the real board, or was it a smokescreen cleverly planted?

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2010 7:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wade and Jerry

’Nuff said.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 7:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yup....Lupati is good no question, but he a guard and normally your not using a first round pick on a guard, Jerry wont...

Brewster is the unknown. If they envision him being the LG Wade wont even look his way….

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 10, 2010 3:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

that makes no sense

there aren’t going to be many available roster spots next year with all of the rookies from the 2009 draft class coming back off of IR.

If the Cowboys do any trading this season, it will be up, not down. The only way they trade down, is to acquire picks as ammunition to trade back up.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 10, 2010 11:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The reason it makes sense is because there is a very good chance

that the top players at our positions of need (OL, S, WR) are gone by our draft pick. So if you are Dallas, would you rather reach on a guy like Pouncey, Chad Jones, and/or Damian Williams, or would you rather trade down maybe ten spots, get better value for one of those guys and also pick up an extra 3rd or 4th round pick (because even with a lack of spots, that would still mean we are only bringing in 7 rookies). To me, I would have to support trading down in a scenario like that.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

that there is a very good chance none of the top players at our positions of need will be gone by #27.

I actually think it’s probable that one of the top tackles, safeties and WRs will be available at #27 with no problem.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 10, 2010 12:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously it will be interesting to see how it plays out

but I was simply outlining why we would trade down. As for the specific positions, I don’t think any of the top safeties will be there at 27 (unless you maybe include Taylor Mays). At OL, I could easily see 5 of the top 6 linemen going before our pick. WR is maybe the easiest position to get a top-3 player since I only really think Dez Bryant is a lock to go in the top 20.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The best safety in last years draft class

didn’t even get drafted in the first rd, Louis Delmas and he is every bit as good as Thomas.

The only safety who is truly elite first rounder is Berry.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 10, 2010 1:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Earl Thomas will go before we draft

I can’t see him getting by the 49ers, Giants, and Steelers.

As for Louis Delmas, I agree he was a good player last year, but he came from a smaller school and did not run nearly as well as Thomas will. It also helps with the successful string of Texas DBs who have played well in the last few years.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we'll see

but it wouldn’t surprise me at all to see Thomas fall into the late first, early second round area.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 10, 2010 1:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Combine will be big for Thomas

If he doesn’t run well, he’ll fall hard.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 4:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 10, 2010 7:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Delmas had a great rookie year for the Lions

wish we had a first rd pick last year to get him, he’s a stud.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 10, 2010 3:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So....

because Delmas had a great rookie year for the Lions it makes him every bit as good as Thomas coming out?

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 10, 2010 3:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you might be right

…but be clearer about “top players”. Is that top 5? top 3?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 4:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

NONE of the top players gone at OL, S and WR when they get to #27?

Put down the Mickey’s Mean Green and keep your hands where I can see ’em!!!

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 4:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Again, we agree.

…doesn’t mean they won’t do it though.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 3:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Trading back is best when there are several players you want, still available

It would be great if Jerry could move down once or twice and pick up a Pouncey, or Nate Allen, or Morgan Burnett, or who ever is sitting a top the 2nd rd. But you have to find a willing partner to trade with. That means there is a player that some team loves, and that team has extra picks to trade with. Not always easy to find.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2010 6:43 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

But this team doesn't have that many roster spots open for competition

This isn’t a team in rebuilding mode. And LAST YEAR’S DRAFT was supposed to remake (if you listen to the Cowboys draft apologists) the special teams and bottom of the roster.

So now, time to address the real holes in the first string O-line, and receiving corps.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 7:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not suggesting moving too far back

I hate that too. But I don’t mind them moving back if there isn’t a blue chip OL guy available at #27. I like Pouncey, but he might be available around pick 30-40 range, and if they can get him there and pick up (whatever the trade chart value is) then I’m for it.

As you said, way too soon to start planning the bottom 1st now, the combine and pro days will probably shake up the current rankings a bit.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2010 7:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And still, I need to ask the question

When has trading out of the 1st, for anything other than a future 1st rounder, during the Jerry (sans Jimmy) era worked out well in the long run for Dallas?

Trading down is a filure model and that’s why you seldom see great teams do it.

Example:

Scott Pioli leaves New England. They went away from his tried and true strategy and traded down last year, missing out on guys like Hakeem Nicks (can you imagine them adding him to that arsenal?), Kenny Britt, Beanie Wells and Louis Delmas. Think they would want a do-over for that move? I do.

Chung, Brace and Butler didn’t help much at all.

Now, give them some credit. They figured it out their mistake early and found the bumbling Raider front office willing to give up a #1 for Seymour and now they are positioned for a monster draft.

Dallas has to become an organization that is less whimsical and more strategic in their approach to the draft if they want to keep their roster talented and deep enough to be consistently competitive.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 10:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, at #27 are you really getting a 1st rd talent

Or more of a 2nd rd talent that your team is forced to reach for because all the guys they have rated higher are off the board already?

If the answer is the former, you take the pick and be happy.

If the answer is the latter, then it makes sense to trade down and get extra picks and still get a player with 2nd rd talent.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 11, 2010 5:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's simple, really...

At # 27, you are getting a chance to pick a player not deemed one of the 26 best (that definition is subjective) players in the college ranks.

Saying a player’s talent can be delineated by some arbitrary “round” doesn’t make a lot of sense.

There are too many variables (i.e. team needs, impact of free agents, etc.) to do that.

Success in the draft, historically, comes from prioritizing the board by BPA and THEN juxtaposing it with positions of need.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 5:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're right, the draft process is subjective

That is why not all teams will look at the players left after the top 26 picks in the same way. Some teams may see a player there who is a value, some teams will see only reaches. Some teams will move down to get closer to the arbitrary value they’ve assigned to particular players, and some teams might want to move up. That’s why the draft always involves trades.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 11, 2010 6:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but that's a different arbitrary line for each team

Dallas’ 26 will likely look a lot different than Oakland’s top26, which will look a lot different than Baltimore’s top 26.

So, in the end, it’s not a universally accepted 26.

However, it is almost a sure bet that someone from Dallas’ top 26 will still be there at #27.

The other thing about drafting near the bottom of the round that makes it very different when a team trades down, is that those teams tend to have fewer opportunities for draft choices to actually stick with the team.

St. Louis trading down for both NE #1’s might make sense because of the number of holes they have. Dallas trading down 9 spots and picking up another 3rd rounder makes no sense.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 12, 2010 4:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

OK, I'm guessing you're still mad they didn't move up for Unger last year

Don’t let your disappointment color your opinion of trading down in the future.

I get what you are saying, this team doesn’t necessarily need the extra picks gained from a trade down, but I like them to have as many chances as possible to hit on a player. If they can pick up a 4th or 5th for dropping down 10 spots and still getting the same quality of player they’d have gotten originally, then why wouldn’t you want them to?

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 12, 2010 7:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually

I am still mad that they traded two #1’s for Galloway.

I am still mad that Steven Jackson isn’t wearing a star.

I am still mad that after countless failures that have resulted from trading down since Jimmy left, there are still, as crazy as it sounds, proponents of that strategy.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 13, 2010 6:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm that's a lot of anger

Remove any objects that might damage your TV when the draft is taking place.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 15, 2010 8:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I watch it in a padded room

But the pizza is from New York and the beer is Fat Tire.

So it is all good!

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 9:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Something's wrong...

This is usually where Fighter15 says something inflammatory.

It’s not the same without him here…

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 6:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would have gone the reverse route

If you really thought 2009 was a crappy looking talent pool, then why not trade some of those picks for picks in 2010?

Carpet bombing the draft doesn’t work (see the Kansas City chiefs and their 327 picks in one draft).

Trade up or trade into the next year, but DO NOT trade down.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 13, 2010 6:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think our draft last year proves you wrong. We have gotten 2 big contributers and will get another or 2 big contributers.

Our ST needed a boost. What difference did it make. We made the playoffs this year and could have done more.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 13, 2010 6:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

again, predicting contribution from non-contributors...

is just a fan’s ‘hope’, not logic.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 14, 2010 2:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hot dog man, give them more than a year. I see good potential.

That OLB that spelled Spencer could probably be a good player if he wasnt behind two studs.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 14, 2010 6:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I see another failed attempt at outsmarting the rest of the NFL

Drafting for ST’ers…not even the most fervent of Cowboys fans should mindlessly buy into that stupidity.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 14, 2010 11:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

who are the 2?? Buelher is the only one I can think of.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 18, 2010 10:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he means John Phillips

…but let me say this about Buehler.

While I love his big leg, it is only because Dallas had, in Folk, a kicker whose KO’s were VERY weak that they felt compelled to go with Buehler.

I’m not convinced that 53-man NFL rosters have the room for a PK and a Kickoff Specialist. In fact, I see it as an overall weakness, rather than a strength worthy of praise.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 18, 2010 2:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

actually bling thats exactly how NFL teams draft players

all players are given grades based on rounds. There are only certain players, usually 20-25 players who are deemed to have first rd talent, and if those players are gone by the time you pick you look to trade down if you can, otherwise you’re picking a 2nd rd talent in the first rd which isn’t good value.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 12, 2010 8:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

I thought they were graded and then ranked from 1-896 (give or take compensatory picks).

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 12, 2010 4:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No no no

That’s ridiculous. They stop at 675.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 12, 2010 7:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's why I love BTB

I learn something new every day.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 13, 2010 6:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

according to Raf, most teams only put grades on about 120 players

and they give them all grades based on which round they should go in. Raf explained this a year ago before the draft in a very good post. You should read it sometime.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 15, 2010 8:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So does Dallas only grade the first 15 or so?

Since history suggests they have no clue as to what to do with their pick when it comes up later in the 1st round.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 15, 2010 3:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Post Jimmy, pre Pracells they weren't good in that slot

In the Ireland/Ciskowski era, I think they’ve been much better

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 15, 2010 3:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Much better than not good isn't saying much

Would you call us a top tier drafting team?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 15, 2010 3:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would call us a good drafting team

regardless of tier since 2005. The talent on our roster proves as much.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 15, 2010 3:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmmm

2005 was a great draft.

2006 was a draft day atrocity beginning with Capenter and ending with E.J. Whitley. Please remember that I am opposed to drafting O-linemen from Texas Tech and Whitley is another fact in support of that position. The best pick in that draft is playing for Miami (Fasano), and that isn’t saying much.

2007 was nothing to write home about with Anderson likely being gone, Marten, Stanbust, Folk and Brown all being punted away.

2008 was phenomenal with 5 out of 6 picks making the roster.

2009 looks like we pooped our shorts with nothing more than a kickoff specialist and a part time TE (a spot that is crowded now) the only rookie contributors.

I’m not sure how well we compare with the good drafting teams, but I am guessing our drafts look more inconsistent.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 15, 2010 5:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

jury is still out on 2009

and 2007 was very solid getting a future star in Spencer along with a future starter in Free and a good back up in Ball.

2006 was really the only draft we shit the bed in the last 5 years and 2005 and 2008 were spectacular which more than made up for it.

The key to a successful draft is getting a few starters and quality backups, anything beyond that is gravy. Despite what the average fan thinks, it’s impossible to acquire a pro bowler every draft.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 16, 2010 8:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My jury isn't out

It came back with a verdict of guilty of being a draft bereft of impact players.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 17, 2010 2:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

your jury is way too premature

as you have absolutely have no clue as to which rookies from the 2009 class will be impact players or not.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 19, 2010 2:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I did couch it by saying "early returns"

But who is to say when it’s time to judge?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 19, 2010 4:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Also sad...also true

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 10, 2010 7:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

He did it last year, but this year, he has two first-rounders.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 12, 2010 4:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why sad?

If Iupati has a bad combine (say his mobility looks bad), he would fall to the second round. Same could be said for a tackle like Bruce Campbell, who is an injury risk and a junior. Both of those players could be available in the second round.

If Jerry sees value in trading down with Carolina for the Panthers first round pick in 2011, and their second round pick in 2010, then I hope he does. Jerry could also trade next year’s first round pick (having secured Carolina’s in this case) to a team like Oakland, that does not have a first round draft choice in 2011.

I hope Jones does not feel handcuffed to have a great draft this year because Dallas is so close to contending for a Super Bowl and the game is being played in Arlington. Jerry has done a pretty good job moving around in the draft: last time it netted Anthony Spencer and Felix Jones.

by ScarletO on Feb 11, 2010 4:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Because we stink at trading down unless we get future #1

I hope Jones DOES feel handcuffed to make a pick, because that way we can test the strength of Ciskowski’s work.

Otherwise, it’s another Julius Jones/Quincy Carthhhhhher draft.

That’s why sad.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 11, 2010 5:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

although you can lay Julius Jones on Parcells not Jerry.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 11, 2010 6:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I see Dallas under Jerry as bifurcated into the "with Jimmy" era and then the "without Jimmy" era

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 12, 2010 4:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I see it in 3 eras Jimmy, post jimmy, and BP+.

Jerry, like Luke Skywalker, had to go back and finish his Jedi training before he was able to take on Darth Vader.

You need to come out of the post Jimmy era. Its unhealthy and unproductive and has no bearing on now.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 13, 2010 1:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You think so?

I think Dallas hasn’t had a person that could tell Jerry to shut the fork up when it came to matters that he had no business meddling in since Jimmy left.

In the end, if Jerry doesn’t win another bling as the owner of this team, he will get almost none of the credit for the 90’s dynasty and Jimmy will get it all.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 13, 2010 6:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You are beating your head against wall with the anti-jerry thing. I have accepted he is here to stay.

I hope and pray he improves. I think he has and the post BP era is positive proof. Stack his last 5 drafts against anybody and it plays out well. That includes Polian. We had a SB contender this year.

By the way, who cares who gets the credit? I mean really. 15 years ago, Jimmy is over it and old time fans know who did what.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 13, 2010 7:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

old time fans don't write the nfl history books, objectivists do

I was making the point that Dallas’ drafting was easily divided into two eras.

Don’t lose context of thought as the threads get longer.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 14, 2010 2:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the only way there will be any distinction...

is if he wins one without a JJ-built roster.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 14, 2010 11:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I can go along with that.

But I also think he is much improved over the 96-2003 version.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 15, 2010 7:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

From a cowboys fan's viewpoint, that's great

…but his legacy is in jeopardy if he doesn’t disprove all of the people who say it was all Jimmy all the time.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Jerry cares about his legacy, but

I believe that you are giving Jimmy too much credit and Jerry not enough. Belichick was nothing without Pioli: has never won a Super Bowl without him in the front office at either Cleveland or New England.

Think Polian would look great without Peyton Manning behind center? His drafts have been above average at best.

My point is that successful teams have great partnerships between front offices and coaches with personnel. Jerry Jones wants to win: he would have never brought in Bill Parcells if he did not. Jerry and Jimmy were a great partnership, but personality traits with both men prohibited that union from lasting. Jones is now looking for an owner that he can work with for many years.

Jerry has spoken often about teams that maintain continuity being successful for long stretches: Philadelphia, Indianapolis, New England, and Tennessee. Jerry is looking for someone that he can work along side to build a winner.

Getting more to your point, Jerry 1.0 (as per Rafael Vela) had a poor strategy to build a team. That Jerry was trying to trick-out a car that had a broken engine in an effort to make one more run at a championship.

Now Mr. Jones (or Jerry 2.0 if you will) is trying to build a solid core of players that can make the Cowboys a championship contending club for many seasons. He identified the problems and hired an expert (Parcells) to help him fix them.

But Jerry went a step further, in that he permitted Bill to establish the infrastructure within the Dallas Cowboys organization that would lead to success after Bill left. Now the Cowboys are one of the better run franchises in the NFL (again).

I believe that the paradigm shift in Jerry’s decisions had its genesis with Romo’s bobbled snap. Jerry jettisoned Parcells (by not extending his contract) and began operating in a different manner: hiring a coach he knew he could get along with long-term.

Perhaps Jerry realized that an NFL season can end on the weirdest twist of fate as he watched Romo pick up the bobbled snap and get tripped-up just short of the first down mark: but I do not think so. I think Jerry learned his latest lesson from 2007 and 2008 seasons.

In 2007, the Cowboys went 13-3, but lost to the Giants with Dallas’ most explosive player limited due to injury (Owens). Jerry reverted to his 1.0 self and tried to pack more individual talent on the roster for the 2008 season: again tricking-out a broken car.

The result? 9-7 and no playoff berth.

Reports have Stephen Jones imploring his father to reconsider his past failed strategy, and this time, Jerry did. The resulting cleansing did more good than a handful of prunes!

I think that Mr. Jones (2.0) has realized that in today’s NFL a successful team creates an opportunity to win the Super Bowl year after year, because despite having a great team, one key injury can leave you watching the post season on TV. Similarly, one key addition can get a team that is close year in and year out over the hump and make them champions.

Winning the Super Bowl takes some luck and some skill these days. In the pre-salary cap era, superior talent (obtained from a great front office — which is why Jerry deserves more credit for the success of the 90’s) and coaching would suffice. With the lack of depth at key positions now pervasive throughout all NFL rosters, teams also need good fortune.

If Jerry’s 2.0 Cowboys go onto win at least one playoff game for the next 6 consecutive seasons, I would have to say that Mr. Jones has been incredibly successful in the front office. At that point it is more about luck as to whether the Cowboys boast a sixth (or seventh) ring.

by ScarletO on Feb 16, 2010 2:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No

That’s wrong.

Jerry is getting the same treatment anyone in his position would get. And, to be clear, these aren’t the views of the vocal minority. Far from it. This is the view of the sports fan not married to an undying devotion to the Cowboys like you and me.

On this and any other pro-Cowboys forum, all things Jerry will tend to reign supreme with the majority of people. That said, the world outside of Cowboys fandom will treat Jerry unkindly after he hangs up his “GM cleats” if he doesn’t get a bling without Jimmy driving the bus.

I’m sure Jerry wishes more people looked at it the way you do.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 5:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Again, Spencer was acquired a trade down draft.

Dallas traded down with Cleveland, then back up to get Anthony Spencer. That first round pick was used on Felix Jones the following year.

In addition, I would be shocked if any rookie offensive lineman (which is the Cowboys biggest area of need ) could crack the starting lineup sans injury. Same could be said for any rookie free safety, rookie wide receiver, or rookie inside linebacker.

Although I agree with most of your post and responses, I do not agree that the Cowboys need to draft a big defensive nose tackle. A back-up nose tackle that is an upgrade over Siavii is necessary, however, and that could probably be found in rounds 4-7.

There is no evidence that Ratliff would be effective as a defensive end in the 3-4. Jay has asked to remain as a nose tackle, the Cowboys have not shown any desire to move him to end, and Ratliff was hardly dominating earlier in his career when used as a defensive end (although that was in another defensive system).

As far as players drafted after trading down, it is a little early to grade the 2009 NFL draft, isn’t it? The afore mentioned quarterback in your response and Julius Jones were both drafted by different coaches and different personnel guys: hard to compare then with now.

by ScarletO on Feb 11, 2010 6:21 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Ratliff is certainly no 4-3 end

But his skills as a high-motor, penetrating lineman lend themselves to the 3-4 end position.

You cited the one example of trading down that I support. If you can land a future #1 from a team you expect will have a much higher draft slot the following year (who knew Derek Anderson would have the ONE great season of his life the following year?), then by all means, trade the pick.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 12, 2010 4:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

One more thing...

I appreciate you underscoring the validity in my argument.

Yes, different coaches and personnel guys drafted QC and JJ.

And yet, the common thread was the GM, the one who makes the call.

Nice one!

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 12, 2010 5:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I will combine the two above if you do not mind.

Ratliff if currently matched-up on guards (slow) and centers (slower). Most centers in the league are the weakest blockers on their respective offensive lines. Jay frequently uses his quickness to create difficult angles and definitive leverage advantages to disrupt opposing offensive units.

Moving Ratliff to end in a 3-4 would match him up against much longer, and frequently quicker offensive tackles. That match-up could easily negate Ratliff’s normally unparalleled edge in quickness.

Going back a little ways, moving the perennial All-Pro and future Hall of Fame guard Larry Allen from inside to the tackle position made a dominating linemen just a good lineman. Conversely, moving an underachieving tackle such a Leonard Davis inside has created a Pro Bowl player from an average player. The same could be said for Gurode, who barely made it as a guard, but has excelled as a center.

Moving an interior scrimmage player to the perimeter of the line does not often result in greater production. The opposite, however, does occur. Why then, take a dominating nose tackle and move him to end?

“One more thing… I appreciate you underscoring the validity in my argument.
Yes, different coaches and personnel guys drafted QC and JJ.
And yet, the common thread was the GM, the one who makes the call.
Nice one!” — 5Blings

The same GM that signed Romo as a rookie free agent?
The same GM that signed Austin as a rookie free agent?
The same GM that drafted Demarcus Ware?
The same GM that drafted Jason Witten (an All-Pro in the 3rd round)?
The same GM that drafted Terrence Newman?
The same GM that drafted Flozell Adams (a franchise LT in the second round)?
The same GM that drafted Anthony Spencer with an aggressive draft day trade?
The same GM that drafted Mike Jenkins after trading up a few spots to get him?
The same GM that drafted Andre Gurode?
The same GM that drafted Jay Ratliff in the 7th round?
The same GM that drafted Marion Barber III and Bradie James in the 4th round?
The same GM that drafted Orlando Scandrick and Doug Free in the 4th round?
The same GM that drafted Buehler and went against conventional wisdom?
The same GM that signed Sensabaugh, Brooking, and Olshansky last season?
The same GM that signed Colombo, Davis, and Kosier?

and of course…

The same GM that traded Herschel Walker?

If as you say the GM makes the call then…oh shoot, I forgot your point. What was it again? ;)

by ScarletO on Feb 16, 2010 2:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well....

Jimmy traded Walker… : )

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 16, 2010 3:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Jerry has been the GM sans Jimmy since 1994

Whether you’re a fan of his GM moves or not, one thing is hard to argue. Dallas under Jerry the GM (again, sans Johnson) would never be an organization accused of having a long term plan for building a championship caliber team.

His draft-day wheeling and dealing has, more often than not, blown up in his face.

Maybe last year’s house cleaning was a good sign (I certainly applauded it), but his carpet bombing of the draft last year was just plain goofy. Dallas’ roster is one with very targeted needs. He needs to approach the draft in a way that recognizes this and looks to fill some of those potholes.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 5:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I respectfully disagree...

“Whether you’re a fan of his GM moves or not, one thing is hard to argue. Dallas under Jerry the GM (again, sans Johnson) would never be an organization accused of having a long term plan for building a championship caliber team.” 5Blings

Jerry did have a plan post-Johnson, and won one Super Bowl without Jimmy as the coach. The plan Jones had after Johnson left was to reinforce the roster with role-players through the draft and pick-up a difference-making free agent when available (Deion Sanders), while investing all of his money on the core of stars: Aikman, Emmitt, Irvin, and so forth.

The plan was excellent, and led to one more Super Bowl victory two seasons after Jimmy Johnson left. Wholesale changes were not needed to be made after Johnson left in 1994. Jerry brought in Switzer to appease the players on the roster and make it easier to sign them.

Afterwards, however, the Cowboys got old and Jerry tried to patch the team’s holes by reaching on draft picks and making desperate trades. Despite putting forth a worse product on the field year after year, Jones still felt that as long as Troy Aikman was still on the field, Dallas had a chance to win another Super Bowl.

Jerry was right in realizing that he still had a franchise quarterback, but the rest of the talent had fallen off drastically. This is not that uncommon; just look at those great New England Patriots. Pioli and Belichick permitted the defense to age to the point that the offense had to carry the team the past few seasons.

After Aikman left, Jerry’s plan focused around getting another franchise quarterback. The personnel department was terrible, and the drafts showed that. When Parcells started, he shifted the focus to developing all of the other players to help the quarterback position.

The draft strategy and team strategy is now an extension of the Parcells strategy to build a team. It is now working fairly well.

The Cowboys, have always had a plan to build a championship team, but it changes as the team changes. It took two seasons under Campo without Aikman for Jerry to realize that Dallas needed to make a drastic change: enter Bill Parcells. How many years did it take the Saints to make a change that worked?

“His draft-day wheeling and dealing has, more often than not, blown up in his face.” 5Blings

Really? I already mentioned Jenkins and Spencer. It is too early to judge last season’s draft; and you agree with trading down for a future first round pick. So what is left?

Jerry traded down and still got Roy Williams. Granted that Roy did not pan out, but the Cowboys received an extra pick from the Chiefs and still drafted the guy they wanted.

Jones trades quite a bit on draft day in the later rounds (5th, 6th, and 7th), but the chances of hitting it big in those rounds are pretty slim. Then again, the Cowboys have drafted quite a few winners in the latter stages of the draft, so it is hard to criticize Jones the GM for those moves.

by ScarletO on Feb 17, 2010 3:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So you're saying...

his plan was to ride that dumpster fire of a bus named Larry Lacewell as long as he could.

You’re saying his plan was to reach for draft picks (your words, not mine).

You’re saying his plan to trade away a slug of picks for Roy Williams and then flush the remaining picks away by trying to rebuild his special teams/bottom feeders on the roster is an extension of Tuna’s plan? Are…you…for…real?

And seriously, giving Jerry credit for the Super bowl that Switzer won just erodes your credibility and makes you look like a homer.

Switzer was a moron and he was lucky to have the remnants of a roster and staff still chock full of leadership (the culture of winning that Jimmy built), to the point where guys like Aikman and Irvin took full control and overcame Barry’s stupidity.

Jones the GM is going to be roundly criticized for hiring the wrong guys, hiring the wrong guys in the wrong order and not hiring the right GUY to become the GM if he doesn’t win one without Jimmy.

I’m not here to try to convince you. I am, however, just sayin.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 17, 2010 5:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Go back and read what you wrote.

"Whether you’re a fan of his GM moves or not, one thing is hard to argue. Dallas under Jerry the GM (again, sans Johnson) would never be an organization accused of having a long term plan for building a championship caliber team." 5Blings

Now you are changing your argument and putting words in my mouth (or keyboard), so to speak. Relax…I am enjoying this discussion, so should you.

You would be surprised to hear how much of your argument in the post directly above with which I actually agree. Note that I never stated that I approved of any part of Jerry’s plan except to try to squeeze one more Super Bowl out of the bunch that Jimmy left in Dallas.

Switzer was NOT a good coach in the NFL in my opinion. I did not follow Oklahoma football back in the days of Switzer, so I cannot comment on the type of college coach he was, but he did win a lot of games, so he could not have been a moron at the college level. Jimmy, when hired by Jerry was a great college coach, but nobody knew the type of pro coach he would be.

Jerry did the right thing in 1994 and 1995. If your argument that Switzer was a moron is true, then who gets the credit for winning that third Super Bowl? Johnson was gone, and the discipline that he instilled left sometime before the first quarter of the NFC Championship game in San Francisco.

Either Switzer became a better coach in 1995, the team added talent, or the Cowboys got very, very lucky in 1995. The addition of Deion Sanders to that roster made a big difference, and that was TOTALLY the brainchild of Jerry Jones.

Now I believe that the signing of Deion was a short-term gain that led to a long-term loss because of the money that it tied up in the salary cap. But that single signing had more to do with the Cowboys winning that third Super Bowl than did Switzer or luck. Do you really think that the Cowboys would have won that third Super Bowl without Deion Sanders that season?

I am not going to defend some of the moves Jerry has made that have not panned-out. The point of my original response was to also mention the successful personnel moves along with the unsuccessful. It is too easy to list the negatives on the resume of someone that has held the same high-profile job for more than 20 years and make a case for his incompetence.

I was challenging you to make a list of good moves and compare it to a list of bad moves. If you wish to continue to make a stronger argument, then list all of the good and bad moves other GM’s have made during that 20-year span and compare them.

I already stated the reason behind why Jerry hired Barry. Jones hired Gailey because Chan had a great offensive philosophy in Pittsburgh and Jerry wanted to maximize what he had in Troy Aikman. It did not work, so Chan was released after going 18-14 in two regular seasons, and 0-2 in the playoffs.

Aikman complained that the new Gailey offense did not suit him, so Jerry went out and got Zampese to run the offense and promoted Dave Campo from defensive coordinator. The next three seasons (5-11, 5-11, 5-11…sorry, the keys got stuck) were not about coaching, but rather about talent: Dallas had none.

Jones tried to build the team without draft picks (thanks to a terribly timed Joey Galloway trade where Jerry gave up too much), and lacked a good personnel department to make the most out of the picks that the team still had. If you want to criticize Jerry for hanging on to Lacewell for too long, feel free. I felt that Larry was a very poor talent evaluator, and one of Jerry’s strengths, his loyalty, worked against him in this case.

Jerry’s loyalty also worked against him in holding onto Aikman too long instead of moving forward to find a replacement. But Jones’ loyalty also kept the core of the team together for quite a long time. If Jerry would have been receiving better advice on personnel decisions that strategy would have worked better.

After three terrible seasons, Jerry made the bold move of hiring Bill Parcells. If you want to demonize Jerry for the hiring of his coaches, then credit him with the hiring of Parcells. If you want to criticize Jerry’s decision to keep his friend Larry Lacewell, give Mr. Jones credit for stepping back and giving Parcells the power to get rid of him.

Tom Ciskowski was not elevated by Parcells, but rather promoted by Jerry Jones. Give Jerry the credit for hiring the current personnel guy who has overseen the drafting of Jenkins, Jones, and Scandrick, as well as some other contributors to the team the last two seasons.

Note: As I have said repeatedly, it is too early to tell what the last draft class will become. Being a draftnik, I am surprised that you do not agree. Every professional personnel guy says the same thing as me.

Think what you wish regarding my credibility. I am a homer. As you say, I am not here to convince you, but rather to voice my opinion regarding my favorite professional sports team. I feel that some of what you say has merit, but I cannot agree with some significant points that you try to make, and I disagree with your overall assessment of Jerry Jones in the role of GM.

I welcome further discussion. Hopefully you do too. But please remeber that we are both fans for the greatest professional football team on earth: we are in essence on the same team.

As long as you are not Michael Irvin, and I do not need a haircut, there should not be any bloodshed.

;)

by ScarletO on Feb 17, 2010 7:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough

You have to give Jerry credit for the good things he has done if you’re going to hold him accountable for the gaffes.

Here’s one thing you asked that I wanted to answer directly;

If your argument that Switzer was a moron is true, then who gets the credit for winning that third Super Bowl?

The simple answer is Troy, Emmitt, Michael, Woody, Charles Haley and Brock Marion. I’d also be negigent here if I didn’t give SOME credit to Neil O’Donnell.

But really, the credit should go to Jimmy, whose culture of winning and team sacrifice was enough to overcome the gun-in-the-airport-toting stylings of Barry.

Also, from later in your comment, Cisky wasn’t elevated because Tuna liked Jeff Ireland, whom he took with him to Miami. I don’t want to judge cisky yet because the ’08 class (Telly B notwithstanding) looks okay. You already know my feelings about last year.

And no, no sharp objects anywhere on here…

:=)

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 18, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

negligent*

Proofreading is an art.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 18, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I had to think about your Switzer comment overnight.

Even though the players you mention were awesome, I cannot give them full credit. Here is my problem with giving total credit to the players for winning that third Super Bowl:

The following season, the Cowboys did not even get to the NFC Championship game.

It’s not that Troy, Emmitt, and Michael got worse in one season, it was that the talent level on the team dropped significantly. In 1996, Dallas did not have Haley nor Novacek for the entire season due to injuries (back problems for Charles and I believe the same for Jay). Despite getting Kevin Smith back, and having a cornerback pairing of Smith and Sanders, with Woodson also at safety, the Cowboys were devoid of the talent necessary to win the Super Bowl.

Talent matters in the NFL. Given that belief, bringing in Deion Sanders the season before, in my opinion, was what Dallas needed to win their third Super Bowl.

While the trio of players deserve credit for overcoming a “moronic” coach in Switzer, I believe that some personnel moves by Jerry also had a lot to do with that third Super Bowl. Also remember that Dallas drafted Larry Allen after Jimmy left.

Some experts called that a reach at the time, but that worked out great. If Switzer, Lacewell, and the personnel guys were such incompetent buffoons, then where does the credit for drafting Larry Allen then go?

I am not ruling out dumb luck…

Especially since that was their only multi-time pro bowl draft pick from 1995 to 1999 (Flozell Adams). Then came another dearth of pro bowlers until Newman was drafted by Parcells in 2003 (not including Roy Williams, who flamed-out).

by ScarletO on Feb 19, 2010 7:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You get 7-12 picks...you're likely to hit on a few

The sun even shines on a dog’s a$$ some days.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 19, 2010 11:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you just described the draft process for every team

I can give you a laundry list of busts that Polian and Pioli have drafted over the years. Remember Chad Jackson?? Yeah , that was the great Scott Pioli’s work who constructed the Pats dynasty of the last decade.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 19, 2010 3:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But it was a dynasty

So you have to think that they hit more than they missed.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 19, 2010 4:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Touche' ScarlettO

I’m loving your arguments. If people want to blame Jerry for all the bad, then it’s only fair to credit him for all the success.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 16, 2010 11:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What success is that again?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 17, 2010 2:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

32 teams are "capable" of winning a Super Bowl

The Bengals are capable of winning a Super Bowl. That doesn’t make Mike Brown more competent than Bill Polian.

Success in the NFL has to be based on results.

Unfortunately, Dallas’ results in the post-Jimmy era aren’t good…

Mark Sanchez has twice as many wins as Romo. Flacco has 3 times as many.

Jerry’s record without Jimmy will be the true measuring stick. No one will remember what the 2009 team was or wasn’t CAPABLE of. They’ll remember what they accomplished, or failed to accomplish.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 18, 2010 2:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You honestly think 32 teams are capable?

So you think DET, CLE, OAK, BUF, STL, etc, are all capable of winning the SB? Should I have used “realistically, no fooling around, honest to God capable” instead?

I really doubt that was an honest answer. You are clearly trying to avoid the question because the real answer means disproving your argument.

Success in the NFL has to be based on results

OK, since BP really began rebuilding the team in 2005, Dallas is 51-29 in the regular season with 2 division titles and 1 WC berth. Playoff record is 1-4. No SB’s yet, but I’d say better than at least 25 other teams if you measure success only by winning a SB. Fair enough?

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 18, 2010 5:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What were the Rams the year before they became the Greatest Show on Turf?

Answer: 4-12, last in the NFC West, outscored by nearly 100 points.

So I was wrong, I don’t THINK 32 teams are capable, I KNOW they are.

Are they all as likely to win? Not at all, but that’s an entirely different question and does nothing to undermine the argument around Jerry.

As for the results piece, how do those results make us any different than Philadelphia (another team that has won ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF CONSEQUENCE) over that same span?

 

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 18, 2010 7:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sigh
Are they all as likely to win? Not at all, but that’s an entirely different question and does nothing to undermine the argument around Jerry.

Fine, substitute the words “capable of” with “likely to” , and tell me how Jerry doesn’t get any credit for fielding a team that is more “likely to” win a SB than most other teams in the league?

As for the results piece, how do those results make us any different than Philadelphia (another team that has won ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF CONSEQUENCE) over that same span?

Well you stated success in the NFL is based on results, so there are the results of the last 5 seasons. I don’t know why you want to drag the Iggles last 5 years results into the discussion. It’s irrelevant.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 19, 2010 12:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's entirely relevant

…because NOBODY will remember what the Iggles have done over the last 5 years either.

And no one cares who was more likely to win a Super Bowl 5 years ago if they didn’t win.

Do you?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 19, 2010 11:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I neglected to address the Ratliff thing...

You’re not watching closely enough if you think Ratliff is getting singled up against centers, or guards for that matter.

He faces more double-teams than Ware.

If moved to DE in certain packages, while you are correct that he might face more OT’s, it would be difficult to double him without leaving either Ware or a blossoming Spencer singled up against a TE or back (I like that outcome). If the opponent chose not to double him, then he’s left to beat his opposing OG number to the ball (I like that outcome too!).

Add to that the fact that he has worn down late in both the 2008 and 2009 seasons.

He’s a quick, penetrating guy with a high motor and he could help our front look a lot more like the Jets’ front, the best in the NFL down the stretch IMO, if we acquired a beefier NT to walk the pocket backwards on 1st and 2nd downs.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 17, 2010 2:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

C'mon now.

“You’re not watching closely enough if you think Ratliff is getting singled up against centers, or guards for that matter.

He faces more double-teams than Ware."

I never said that Ratliff does not face double teams. I do believe that he would be effectively neutralized by some tackles in the league. Much moreso than any guard or center. In addition, who would command the double teams in the middle of the line if Ratliff is moved? A rookie draft pick? A veteran free agent that cannot be high-priced as per the collective bargaining fiasco this off-season? A converted end such as Spears or Olshansky?

Which beefier nose tackle do you have in mind? There does not seem to be one in this year’s draft, so maybe you have an unperpriced free agent in mind?

By moving Ratliff to defensive end, would he be “fresher” by the end of the season? I am pretty sure that Jay would remain as the nickel lineman at either defensive end or tackle/nose.

Jay is great at penetrating from the nose tackle spot, but that does not mean that he could be as effective in space on the end. There are many assumptions that you are making about what Jay can do based on very little information.

by ScarletO on Feb 17, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Even Ware gets neutralized by some linemen

Elvis Dumervil didn’t school everyone he faced last year.

It’s the percentages, my friend. You play them toward your favor as much as possible.

Every day, people make assumptions based on very little information.

The draft is a perfect example.

For NT, I like Hampton as a 2-down guy, Wilfork would be just fine too. In the draft, I am high on Dan Williams. I’m also a believer in Mount Cody.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 17, 2010 5:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Cody would be a significant step down from Ratliff.

I do not believe that Dallas can sign either free agent that you mention, although I would be all for Hampton if the Cowboys had a need at the position.

I would rather try to improve the defensive end position in the draft. As Rafael Vela (I believe he wrote the main page post) mentioned, the productivity from the defensive end position against the pass left a lot to be desired (remember that the Cowboys permitted opponents to rush for just under 4.0 yards per attempt; the league average was over 4.24 yards per rush). A modest improvement to the pass rush from an end, and the Cowboys line would improve exponentially.

Moving Ratliff from nose tackle to end would create two questions along the defensive line:

Can Dallas draft a quality nose tackle?

Can Ratliff pressure the quarterback and stop the run as effectively from the end position?

Leaving Ratliff as a nose tackle leaves only one question on the defensive line:

Can the Cowboys draft a defensive end that can effectively play the run and get more pressure in the passing game?

The percentages are with Ratliff staying put and the Cowboys trying to draft an end.

by ScarletO on Feb 17, 2010 7:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Think of Cody as a 2-down guy just like Hampton in Pittsburgh

…only like 15 years younger.

I reject your theory about the opponents’ YPC simply because that is not simply a measure of the NT and DE’s. YPC is a representation of team defense, not positional performance.

Now, we agree that the DE spot has to be upgraded, but in the same way a Kris jenkins or a Jason Fergus on can go from a 4-3 DT to 3-4 NT, an undersized but quick NT can absolutely transition to the 3-4 DE spot. I have that kind of faith in Ratliff. It’s a minority position, but I believe it to be of sound fundamental thinking.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 18, 2010 3:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just to be clear...

you aren’t comparing Hampton to Cody are you? Please tell me you aren’t doing that.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 18, 2010 8:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If I was, I'd say Cody was taller.

:-)

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 18, 2010 2:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok well if you were.....

about football…. let me just throw this out there.

Two totally different players in college.

Hampton was a freak of nature at Texas. He created consistent pressure, even if he wasn’t getting to the QB all the time (which he did a few times.)

Cody is a run stopper. He isn’t a first round NT, and if someone pays that, they are over shooting.

If you ever watch highlights of Vince Wilfork and Casey Hampton, and then turn and look at Cody, there is a HUGE difference.

There just isn’t one thing about him that is real impressive to me.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 18, 2010 11:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How about his size?

That’s impressive…

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 19, 2010 11:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I dont necessarily think we could draft a LT at 27 and net an immediate starter

because by that pick your down to the 5 or 6th LT. They (LTs) are coveted and teams will reach.
You can dam well pick up a starting C or G because those guys fall in the draft. Lupita would be a nice fit on this team and could start at LG from day 1. Pouncey could probably start for us from day 1 and allow Gurode (if needed) to move to LG.
If we target Lupita or Pouncey lets not dick around and get cute picking up draft picks. Somebody again will jump us and leave us hold a bag of crap and another year without upgrading our OL.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 11, 2010 6:44 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

LOL @ Lupita

It’s Iupati, and at 6’5", 330 pounds, I would make sure you get that right if you run into him. Lupita is a Spanish female name.

At this point, pre-Combine, pre-Pro days, it’s absolutely, positively crazy to predict who will or won’t be there at #27.

So……………….I predict Vlad Ducasse will be there. :-)

Is he worth the #27 pick?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 12, 2010 4:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

History says that isn't true

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 13, 2010 6:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think so

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 12, 2010 8:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You don't think he will be there or you don't think he is worth it?

Or is this another of the famous 729 cliff hangers?

:-)

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 13, 2010 6:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hahaha

I don’t think he is worth it.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 13, 2010 8:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No, your right their ratings will move them up and down but if Ducasse is available at 27 he is the 5th or 6th rated tackle.

The question becomes do we want the 5th or 6th rated LT or the highest rated C/G. Thats a tough one. I would take the kid from Maryland (Campbell) because I believe next year he would come out as a Sr. rated 1st or 2nd LT. His inexperience and health issues are holding him down. We wont start him immediately regardless and we wont throw him to the wolves. Our line coach and Flo could work with him.
P.S who ever we get to play LT behind Flo will start at least 4 games.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 13, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

With Flo being Flo

How many more times can Dallas pass on finding a higher-profile player to be the heir apparent on the blind side?

Dallas is running out of time before they have to reach, and that’s simply because they’ve neglected the position for too long.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 13, 2010 6:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Your preaching to the choir. Flo will be target by Refs for all the bad press he has gotten.

He will be suspended for 2 games and he will be hurt for another 2. I think his play fall off of the table in Dec. If they get Campbell or Ducasse, I will sleep til opening day. We dont and i wont sleep until the 2011 draft.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 13, 2010 7:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Campbell will be gone unless something big happens before draft day

Maryland linemen are good, as a general rule.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 14, 2010 2:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Im hoping his injuries and him coming out a year early helps him slide.

He should be in our neiborhood though.

Oh, We moved up to get Jenkins didnt we. Again with Seattle if memory serves me.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 14, 2010 7:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

His size is rare

If he moves fluidly in drills, he’s top 20 for sure.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 14, 2010 11:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I suspect Campbell will move up boards post combine

You might be right on Ducasse being the top LT prospect left when Dallas picks (and he could play LG right away). It could come down to a decision between him and Pouncey (the top C/G prospect) if Dallas sticks with OL in the 1st.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 15, 2010 8:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think they have to look at tackle with their first pick, even if it is a reach

They don’t have any options, unless there’s a FA out there that can fill the gap until a longer-term solution arises.

We know Romo, given that he isn’t 6’5 and 240, can’t survive without a top-flight O-Line in front of him.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 11:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I really want them to get O-line help

but let’s not pull a Detroit Lions move with Gosder Cherilus or a Houston Texans move with Duane Brown (aka drafting inadequate tackles way too high).

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 16, 2010 3:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree totally.

1 or 2 spots is a reach… but don’t get a guy just for the sake of getting one.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 16, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We could always draft another TE

I hear we are thinking of a base 4-TE package because each of our tackles need two guys helping on each side.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 5:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hahaha...

Not If Free starts on at RT!!

by Luke. on Feb 17, 2010 5:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you see that happening?

I think Colombo is a lock to start in 2010.

Dallas isn’t about to go completely overhauling its O-line.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 17, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I truly hope so.

But Dallas seems to be real stubborn about replacing incumbents with youth.

These Olineman have struggled at the end of the season four years straight, if Dallas doesn’t do something to change things up what else can they expect but more of the same (they are not gonna get better as they move further into 30’s). Hopefully this is enough to jolt them into making some needed changes. An easy way to start that process is get the young and already better pass protector Doug Free on the field and let him further develop his game.

by Luke. on Feb 17, 2010 4:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Free offers less than Colombo in the run game

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 17, 2010 5:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well,

Colombo may be better at some aspects of run blocking than Free (certainly not second level run blocking though). But Free’s young and has plenty of improvement left in his game. Colombo’s never going to get any better than he is. And he’s not that great (especially in pass protection).

Doug Free has the potential to become a much better Tackle (possibly even a LT) than Colombo ever was. Let’s get the show on the road already and see it happen.

by Luke. on Feb 17, 2010 5:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Are you willing to see him go through the growing pains if it means Romo getting creamed early in the year?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 18, 2010 2:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would take that trade off

I’m a Colombo fan, but if Free is better, I want him protecting Romo.

On a side note, I didn’t notice a drop off in the run game when Free was in last season. So I’m not sure how much if any of a drop off there is from Colombo to Free.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 17, 2010 8:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah overall there definitely was no drop off.

The drop off came when Doug was taken out.

The offense played great most times with Free in there (in important games too) and Free made some great blocks in pass protection and out in space in the running game.

He’s only young and he should improve with playing time (like Jenkins, Spencer and Austin all did with extended playing time this year).

I really don’t know why more people aren’t excited about putting Doug Free in at RT (some people seem downright against it). He shows all the right signs of being a great answer to one of our Oline troubles.

by Luke. on Feb 17, 2010 9:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Because 6 games isn't much to go on

If you make wholesale changes in your front wall, you’d better be prepared for the problems that come with poor chemistry, missed assignments, and such that get your QB killed while the line gels.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 18, 2010 2:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Then why didn't that happen when Doug Free took over for 7 games?

The Oline went on it’s best stretch of the season.

Maybe because a good player like him can transition smoothly.

Those bad things you described happened after they took Free out and put Colombo back in.

by Luke. on Feb 19, 2010 2:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They rushed Colombo back

…and it was a mistake.

But remember how many people were screaming to start Scandrick over Jenkins based on last year’s performance?

Well, I find 7 game stretches interesting, but not totally telling.

Either way, the point was about moving Free to RT and ALSO making a change at LT and possibly at LG.

If you completely disrupt the line chemistry, you have to be ready for to weather a storm of problems while they come together.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 19, 2010 11:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Blings,

I don’t think they’’ll make 3 changes. I think RT is most likely and LG is possible though.

And both Scandrick and Jenkins where rookies who had ups and downs. Marc Colombo is a 31 year old vet and Free is a 25 year old future starter who is playing well now and also has much more upside than Colombo. I don’t see why we should wait to get him started?

by Luke. on Feb 19, 2010 4:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

2 changes = 40% change

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 19, 2010 5:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How do you see the tackles right now?

Is Okung the best of the bunch?

Where does Trent Williams fall?

Bulaga, Davis, Campbell?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 15, 2010 3:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I personally would rate them as follows

Okung, Bulaga, Davis, Williams, Ducasse and Campbell

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 15, 2010 3:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Most people have Williams higher

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 15, 2010 3:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

From an untrained eye...

I agree with Terry.

He’s a highly versatile offensive lineman and he CAN play LT, but you’d much rather him play RT.

I think he can be a dominate RT though.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 15, 2010 6:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't he play both in college?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 11:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep...

but he was much more suited for RT.

I always questioned why Trent Williams was the RT when Loadholt played LT the year before.

I was like “Well if he’s such a dominant LT, than why was he playing RT to begin with?”

Because I KNOW that Loadholt is a better RT.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 16, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is it his feet?

He seems long enough and strong enough.

Campbell, on the other hand, looks like a ready-to-step-in Left Tackle.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 1:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He only started 17 college games

I would hardly consider that “ready to step in”

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 16, 2010 2:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

In those 17, he looked better than any LT out there

…save maybe for Okung.

He’s got the same traits as Ryan Clady but has a longer reach and better strength.

I’d surely take him if he was anywhere near our slot. He won’t be, but I’m just sayin’.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 5:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure really...

I think most OU fans were scratching their heads too(I live in OKC for 5 years.).

Williams was touted as one of the best offensive linemen in the country and he is good, but he wasn’t nearly as good as people thought he would be at LT.

Now maybe that was partially because the interior of the line was REALLY bad, but he never did anything that made me think, THAT guy is a Pro LT.

Now Okung on the other hand… that dude is going to be AWESOME.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 16, 2010 3:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How many games did he play there?

Learning to reverse your kickslides and weight distribution is not a flip of a switch.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 5:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

His entire senior yr

I agree with AFB, Williams is more of a “meh”. We know he can play OG and RT for sure, but wouldn’t be a sure thing at LT. He does have a mean disposition though.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 16, 2010 11:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is he a Larry Allen type?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 17, 2010 2:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nooooooooooooo

I don’t think at least.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 17, 2010 7:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not even close

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 17, 2010 8:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Williams is a RT, not a LT....

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 18, 2010 10:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rate them

Okung, Davis, Campbell, Bulaga, Williams, Brown

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 15, 2010 8:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Can Bulaga play LT?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Brown is Jacob Rogers

Not mean, not strong.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 11:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lack of strength is big knock on him

But, the good thing is the quick feet. He could always put in the time in the weight room, but seems like a guy either has the footwork for LT or he doesn’t. Now, personally, I don’t think he’s a good fit for Dallas. I like Davis, Campbell and Bulaga, but they will be gone early, IMO.

That leaves Dallas with some choices between Iupati, Ducasse, and Pouncey possibly.

There are still some good OT prospects after that, in the late 2nd thru early 4th. Rodger Saffold, Jason Fox, Jared Veldheer, Kyle Calloway (more of a RT).

One other guy I like a lot is John Jerry, looks like a OG only, maybe RT.

Just a few names that I’m keeping an eye on.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 16, 2010 11:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Fox has bust written all over him

Brown is converted TE (hence the feet) and lesser opponents blew him up in the Pac 10. I’m not a fan.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 17, 2010 2:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I definitely think so.

I had to watch him shut down Derrick Morgan, and he certainly has the build of a LT. The only question surrounding him is if he has those amazing LT feet, but personally I think he is more than adequate in that respect.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 16, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So on a team with a need like ours...

Would you give up a 3rd to move up 4-5 spots and take Bulaga if he fell?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 16, 2010 5:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's a tough choice but if he was the only top tackle left

I think I probably would. Then I guess I would try to find a guy at WR or S in the second round and then get the best value in the 4th round for one of the biggest positions left unaddressed (WR/S – depending on who we took in the second, OG, DE/DT)

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 17, 2010 12:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would too

I think Dallas has to go get this year’s Michael Oher.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 17, 2010 2:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That'd be nice...

But do you think they’d start him if they got him?

by Luke. on Feb 17, 2010 4:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Both of our tackles are over 30 and injury prone

any way you slice it, it’s not like the rook will have to wait that long…

We could have kind of running pool on BTB about when the rookie would take over as the starter.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 17, 2010 5:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you on the Tackles

I’ve been saying it for years. But I really have my doubts this coaching staff would play a rookie Tackle over Flow even if he looked great. I still think we should get one though because like you said, our Tackles are old and injury prone.

by Luke. on Feb 17, 2010 10:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bet that the backup LT will play this season

It’s a sure thing.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 18, 2010 2:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i will take that bet....

First, it would be Free stepping in for Flozell if we became injured. Second, I think whoever is drafted wont even be NFL ready for at least a year or so…

No rookie is displacing Flozell next season….take that to the bank..

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 19, 2010 10:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

shakes head....

You thought Unger was going to go right in, but that whoever this year that is drafted will take a year to develop…

That makes perfect sense.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 19, 2010 11:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gotta agree with AFB here...

You can’t have it both ways, Boyz.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 19, 2010 11:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Of the draft-eligible players, I'm sure most teams will have you ranked in the range of 15,000,000 to 30,000,000

As a result, I expect you to be selected in the early 3rd round by the Raiders.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 13, 2010 6:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I am totally cool with that

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey

by Seanrude on Feb 13, 2010 6:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Word to Ellis

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 14, 2010 2:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What about DB's?

If Patrick Robinson is there, do you take him?

What about Earl Thomas?

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 19, 2010 1:11 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think Earl Thomas

would be an easy trigger to pull.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 19, 2010 2:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on Feb 19, 2010 5:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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