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Clocking Into a Title: Sean Payton Grounds Peyton Manning

We see head coaches in the NFL mangle clock management at the end of halves on a weekly basis.  Too few coaches can think tactically, getting the play call for the down and distance correctly, while simultaneously getting the strategic aspect of play calling right.

Last night, Saints honcho Sean Payton made a series of calls which turned a potentially losing possession sequence in his favor.  It's a case study in how thinking small won big.

The Super Bowl on Centre Court

New Orleans problems started when they won the coin toss and then promptly flopped on their first possession.  The Colts methodically drove 11 plays and kicked a field goal.  The Saints gained one first down the next time out but had to punt after Marques Colston dropped a deep in on the Colts side of the 50.  Manning again led an eleven play drive, this time reaching the end zone. 

At the end of the first quarter the Colts had 149 total yards and ten points.  Saints DC Gregg Williams' game plan was to make Manning play slow-ball;  he ran a lot of 3-3-5 fronts, and was changing his coverages behind his line.  Williams' quickly learned that neither of his outside linebackers, Scott Fujita or Scott Shanle, could provide pressure as edge rushers.  (Manning would leave the game unsacked, and was rarely pressured.)  If the Colts were going to be stopped, the Saints secondary would have to make plays.  Some help from the Colts would also be welcome.

At this point, the Super Bowl looked like a tennis match, where the Saints had twice been broken and the Colts had held their first two serves.  New Orleans' offense found its legs on its third series, grinding for its own 11-play field goal drive, but Payton knew he had to get back on serve, or Manning would simply stay one possession ahead of him.  Think of Indy's win over the Chiefs in the '04 divisional playoffs, a 38-31 shootout where neither team punted but a Chiefs turnover left them one score short of the Colts all day.

Pierre Garcon gave one possession back to New Orleans when he matched Colston's drop of a first down pass.  New Orleans again moved methodically down the field and looked ready to tie the game when a twisting 27 yard catch-and-run by Colston put New Orleans at first-and-goal on the Colts 3.  Here, Payton showed that how you score means as much as getting the points.

Star-divide

The clock showed just over 4:00 when Colston made his play.  A quick Saints score could have pushed pulled New Orleans even, but Manning would have roughly three and a half minutes to put his team back in front, and there was little evidence the Saints defense could stop him at this point.  What's worse, the Colts were due to get the second half kickoff.  The Colts were anticipating two consecutive possessions.  It was quite possible that Manning could put them up 20-10 or 24-10 or 24-6 and leave the Saints gasping for life.  Nobody would find surprise with such an outcome. 

Payton went for the quick score, throwing to Lance Moore on first down.  He was stopped for no gain. Then, the Saints got a happy accident, one which appeared awful at the time.  Backup lineman Zach Strief, a situational short-yardage blocker, was flagged for a false start, moving the Saints back to the eight. 

Payton then called a run for Pierre Thomas, which gained seven yards.  Just as important, it moved the clock to the two-minute warning.  The Saints called a second run, which was stuffed at the line.  The Colts called time out at 1:55, setting up a 4th-and-1 decision for Payton. 

He could take the easy field goal, and cut the lead to 10-6, but he would give Manning the ball after the kickoff somewhere in decent field position, with around 1:45 left and two time outs.  The same two-straight-possession situation would apply.  Payton decided to go for the touchdown, figuring that even if he failed, he would leave Manning at his own one, and lessen the odds that he would throw down the field. 

Indianapolis again stuffed a Saints run, but Payton's field-position gambit worked perfectly.  Starting at his own one, Manning called three consecutive runs, trying to get one first down before stopping the clock.  The Colts don't run well when you know runs are coming, and a key 3rd-and-1 stop by the Saints D got New Orleans the ball at their 48 with 35 seconds left in the half.  Drew Brees found Henderson in the middle for 19 yards on the very next play, setting up Garrett Hartley's 44 yard field goal.  The Saints went to intermission down 10-6.

New Orleans still got points from the end-of-half sequence.  The Saints would have preferred a touchdown, no doubt, but by pinning Indy at its one, Payton took the ball out of Peyton Manning's hands.  The coach did it again when he called a gutsy -- and successful -- onside kick to open the second half.  New Orleans found the end zone on that drive and the Saints had a 13-10 lead.

The wisdom, and perhaps the necessity of Payton's moves was demonstrated on Indy's opening 2nd half drive.  Manning led the Colts on their third double-digit play scoring drive.  This one covered 76 yards in 10 plays.  Instead of putting the game away, however, it merely answered the Saints' touchdown. 

Sean Payton had stopped two Colts series, one with field position passing shot and the second with a special teams ace.  Add Garcon's double fault and the Saints were back on serve.  When the Colts continued to blow possessions, missing a field goal, throwing an interception and turning the ball over on downs, the Saints rally was complete.

This Super Bowl was a ball-control affair.  New Orleans finished the game with nine possessions.  The Colts had eight.  By negating the last Colts 1st half possession and stealing their anticipated opener in the 2nd, Sean Payton turned a tight game into a runaway.  He took strategy from a game which doesn't have a clock and ran out the time on the Colts' title hopes.

Game, set and match to New Orleans.

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Great game

maybe in part cause I didn’t hate either team…

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Feb 8, 2010 10:27 AM CST reply actions  

Agreed

I was saying the same thing while watching. Fantastic play calling by Sean Payton. Not to take away from Drew Brees’ performance, but this was a coaching win.

by Dansonofdirm on Feb 8, 2010 10:41 AM CST reply actions  

very good game

For those who didn’t watch this, they missed a real chess match.

Also the passing, hitting, catching was very very good. Two teams who could win, but one
who really wanted it more.

Congratulations Saints. You are the champs, and earned it.

P.S. Also glad that BSPN wont be able to spew non stop manning love…………

by oldtimer on Feb 8, 2010 10:45 AM CST reply actions  

Excellent analysis

I’d love to see Wade/Garrett reach this level of strategic insight. The onside kick was completely the ballsiest part of it. But that was the part that finished off the Colts, IMO. Putting Peyton on the 1 instead of the 20 was the most brilliant part of the sequence. Of course he also was bailed out in that Hartley hit a 44 yarder, and the special teams was able to recover the onside kick (just barely)

by mdlusk on Feb 8, 2010 10:47 AM CST reply actions  

Imagine if he had had Scott Norwood instead.

Payton would be NO’s goat today, instead of its GOAT (Greatest Of All Time) coach

by mdlusk on Feb 8, 2010 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree

I was thinking if the Colts would have scored a TD on their last possession and tied the game, Hartley might have been given a shot at a game winning FG.

Brees more than likely would still have gotten the MVP, but Hartley might have deserved it more.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 8, 2010 10:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Onside kick

Normally when a surprise onside kick works it’s because the receiving team messes up and takes off too soon. In this case Indy played the ball about as well as possible. It was an unusual onside kick but it was a perfect kick and even then NO was fortunate to recover.

by northtexan95 on Feb 8, 2010 11:38 AM CST up reply actions  

funny how Manning's pic six was the result

of a great play by Porter, but if another qb throws that INT, it’s a choke.

So glad Saints won.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 8, 2010 10:47 AM CST reply actions  

If it were Tony....

facepalm just thinking about the response.

by mdlusk on Feb 8, 2010 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

uh...Manning's smarts are beyond reproach....

Tony’s aren’t….if you haven’t realized this yet – then this is why the Romo argument will continue as long as he plays

by McLovin9 on Feb 8, 2010 11:09 AM CST up reply actions  

"Beyond reporach?"

Yes he’s so smart that he is beyond criticism for bad decisons like a pick six.

That makes sense.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 11:43 AM CST up reply actions  

If tomorrow I could wake up and have any qb playing for my team..MANNING. I can see it now, manning to wittem. manning to miles and now manning has ware, jenkins, newman, james, ratliff….we could win 2-3 super bowls. Im not knocking Romo, but lets get serious. Nobody is like Manning, and without him, that team does not even make the playoffs.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 11:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Who is making a comparison?

Do you know what the word reproach means?

I’m not saying Manning isn’t better than Romo.

He is probably the best QB in the game, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be criticized.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Manning's Career

won’t be defined by that play, but the Super Bowl will be shaped by a horrible decision that might have driven them into OT.

No QB is cleared of criticism, no matter what your resume is.

Great QB that made a very poor decision.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Criticize him, go ahead, than you are as bad as all those romo haters who criticize without knowing the truth. How about if Wayne catches that pass with 44 seconds left that him right in the hands, or Garcon’s drop. Or how about the colts defense or running game did anything….criticize manning if you want, that doesnt change the fact that whatever team he is on, is an automatic favorite to go to super bowl. Except maybe the Redskins.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Does anyone else NOT get what I'm saying?

I’m not blaming Manning for the game. I’m not saying they lost because of him.

I’m saying that the throw was bad and that any other QB would be criticized for that and so should he.

What is so hard to understand about that?

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Nothing, except, the only reason the Colts are in that game at all is because of Manning. Other teams, have great coaches, defenses, running games…it was a bad pass, not as bad as Favres 2 weeks ago. He is a super bowl champion, he threw a bad pass. Whats the criticism, that he is the greatest qb, and that every year his team will be in the hunt for a title because of HIM and him only. Put in Painter and the colts are 3-13

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

All he's saying is it was a bad pass

And any other QB would have been criticized more for it than Manning was.

And, BTW, put Curtis Painter on any team and they’ll be lucky to win 3 games. Yeah, Mannings WAR (to use a baseball reference) is probably through the roof, but Painter isn’t a good reference point.

by tyhall on Feb 8, 2010 12:14 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Fine, put Romo on that team and see if he do what Manning does with the worst running game in football and a defense not as good as the one with D WARE on it

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Romo would put up comparable numbers for sure

Romo’s numbers are almost just as good with less talent around him.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 8, 2010 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Get real…take a poll right now, who is better Manning Or Romo, and 99% of the country will say manning, the other 1% is on here claiming to have the best qb in the league…

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

You're the one who turned this into a Manning versus Romo thread!

I just said that Manning deserves criticism just like any other QB in the NFL.

You point to ONE post on here saying that I said Manning isn’t best or one of the best!

Just find it for me. You can’t.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Give it up Immortal

he’s determined to wage an argument no one here is making.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Feb 8, 2010 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Of course, Manning would win...

But, if you also put up a poll about who has the best pass protection OLine, the Colts would win, in a land slide.

As the Aikman and Emmitt haters like to remind us, they were good because of their OLine…Which is obviously false, they’re Hall of Famers because they were that great, but they needed the hardware around them to win Championships.

Romo has the hardware? He has an OLine that can’t pass protect consistently and an OLine that can’t power run block…

Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Feb 8, 2010 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

if they cant do those things, how do they win in regular season. Whay are you bashing the boys.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Ok, now that we know manning is better than Romo, lets move on to you bashing the O line. The same o line that protected romo to have all those regular season wins and stats

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:44 PM CST up reply actions  

A smart man would tell you that a winning team is nothing but the sum of it’s parts, for example the Patriots earlier in this decade, they were great solid overall, from it’s QB to the Safeties.

Just like the Cowboys early in the 90s.

Can you say that the Cowboys right now are solid? They can’t run block with power and that’s obvious (just look at the type of running plays that are succesful on our team, it’s the plays were 1 or 2 OLineman go on the move, those aren’t power plays). And they can’t pass protect, which is also obvious (sacks – QB mobility – QB quick release).

If you just can’t see this deficiencies, then you just aren’t a smart man.

Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Feb 8, 2010 12:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Did i say that, you guys blame the o line like its all their fault. The colts have no running game, no power game, and they win. How is that

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

What’s the value of the best pass protection in the League? The value of having top pass catching weapons in Wayne and Clark? The value of Defense that can stop the run? The value of having the best passer in the League?

If you have a team that can’t pass protect consistently and that’s predictable when running, you’re going to struggle.

The Cowboys were Playoff good because Romo’s mobile, because of his quick delivery and because the motion run blocking is top notch. But they were predictable. You only need a Defense that matchs up well with our team strengths, a la Giants, Vikings, Packers and Broncos, and they stopped our Offense for the most part.

Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Feb 8, 2010 1:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I figured as much, but I was bored… Now, I’ll find something constructive to do…

Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Feb 8, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

So now clark is better than witten…what about austin, felix..are those not weapons, there is no question that dallas is one of the most talented nfl teams, we do need o line help and som d help and that may put us over the top, but if we had manning tomorrow, we would be super bowl favorites

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

not according to some posters, we need o line help and have no running game…i hear all kinds of trash talk about my team to just defend romo, and defend him against what, all i said is manning is better…jeez. animals

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

yea, your o-line, i forgot..your a coach, a scout or a player, tell me which it is. so the cowboys are favorites to win super bowl next year, but manning couldnt win if he replaced romo.hahahhahahaahahaha

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Odds to win SB in 2011

Dallas,GB, Minny, Philly- 12 to1
Pitt, NE, NO- 10 to1
SD- 7 to1
Indy- 6 to1

by DIRE WOLF on Feb 8, 2010 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

and there is a bias towards dallas? haha

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Long shot to win SB in 2011

Bills, Browns, Lions, Chiefs, Raiders, Rams, and Bucs are at 100 to 1. By the way Saints were 25 to 1 before the 2009 season started.

by DIRE WOLF on Feb 8, 2010 2:35 PM CST up reply actions  

cause they get no respect…dallas gets respect, they see we have talent, so when they dont win, people blame romo, im not saying that is right, just pointing out what happens

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Some questions:

1. Do you think that Romo has a quick release?

2. Do you think that Romo is mobile?

3. If Romo has a quick release and mobility do you think that 42 sacks in 18 games is acceptable?

4. Do you think that the running game was succesful in 2009?

5. Was the running game predictable?

6. Can you win with a predictable running game and poor pass protection?

My answers to those questions would be:

1. For the most part, he has one of the quickest deliveries in the League. From time to time, though, he takes too much time to see if he can make something out of nothing. But, the good far outweighs the bad.

2. Nearly as mobile as Staubach.

3. Hell, no! For a QB as mobile and with a quick release to reach Bledsoe’s numbers in sacks something is seriously wrong with the pass protection.

4. Yes, the running game finished the season with good numbers.

5. Yes, the running game depends on the plays when at least one of the OLineman go on the move to block. Big guys are easy to see, so they have to execute perfectly to make the plays work. If they do, the RB will have a lot of yards. Else, they’re going down for a loss of yardage. The Cowboys OLine can’t power block, though, and that makes them predictable.

6. Yes, you can win, the Cowboys won a lot of games last season, but those are serious flaws, flaws that the Vikings exploited, flaws that in the end sank the ship.

This was fun, it’s been a pleasure.

Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Feb 8, 2010 4:27 PM CST up reply actions  

u do think the cowboys can win with romo, but i also think they would be better with manning

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 5:10 PM CST up reply actions  

You have to take the good with the bad, though...

With a less mobile QB, P. Manning also has a quick release, the sacks and incompletions (from throwing out of bounds) would go up.

How many great plays did Romo made from escaping out of broken pockets? Do you think that Manning would have made those plays?

As a matter of fact Staubach would be the only Cowboy QB in the history of the Franchise that would look good with the current team (How was Aikman looking late in his career with an eroding Tuinei and post injury EWilliams? How did Aikman look in his first couple of years?)… 42 sacks in 18 games, with a quick and mobile Romo?

Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Feb 8, 2010 5:34 PM CST up reply actions  

that makes no sense JJ

Cowboys could never protect Manning well enough

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 9, 2010 9:46 AM CST up reply actions  

the cowboys ranked #7 in rush offense, the colts ranked #32

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:55 PM CST up reply actions  

cowboys ranked 8th in total D, colts #18

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:58 PM CST up reply actions  

stupid…just being a hater cause someone does not agree with you. you go be a fan of any other team. im a cowboys fan, who are you to take that from me because i think manning is the best qb…get real, get a life

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

best regular season qb

and nobody here is denying that.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 8, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

that's one thing I don't get

Brees had a better regular season than Manning, yet he doesn’t seem to be in the discussion at all

by strobman on Feb 8, 2010 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

i like brees, i think manning, brees and brady are top 3

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

"get a life"?

Haha whatever dude.

You are literally too stupid too insult.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

haha whatever dude.

im not trying to insult, im pointing out that no matter what anyone says you just jump down their throat. I love romo and the cowboys, i am a cowboys fan. what is your problem, because i said manning is better than romo, im told im a moron who should be a colts fan. what are people talking about. isnt this is a blog where we can post what we think is wrong with our own team, because there is something wrong, since we havnt won since 95

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 1:57 PM CST up reply actions  

You really don't get it do you?

It’s like I’m speaking another language or something.

I never said Manning wasn’t better than Romo.

Ever…ever….ever.

I said that Manning isn’t invincible from being critiqued and YOU replied to me.

I only made the Colts remark because you are going out of your way to defend a guy.

It’s weird.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 2:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Romo is our guy, but Im taking Manning all day every day if I had to choose...

Manning actually had a good game…that drop by Garcion was critical and changed the game. Just listening to all the talk on the radio today it sounded like that INT was Wayne’s fault. He clearly gave up on the route from what they were saying.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 8, 2010 5:04 PM CST up reply actions  

finally, some sense..thank you that is what i have been saying

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 5:10 PM CST up reply actions  

like Witten and T.O. gave up on Romo's passes

against Pittsburgh last year. Manning’s pass to Wayne was no different.

Manning had a decent game, Brees clearly outplayed him big time and I’d bet Romo would have as well.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 9, 2010 9:49 AM CST up reply actions  

The more you win, the less you are criticized….so if Romo is tired of hearing the same things he has been called over and over, than he needs to win playoff games and a super bowl. He is on the right track, and i believe in him, but he has not earned what Manning has. We all know manning is capable of winning the big one, because he has, and we all know manning is a threat to go to the big one every year. Nobody, but us Dallas fans are holding their breath waiting for Romo to win a SB

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Put Painter on our team and we are 4-12.

I think Manning Is one othe smartest, and best prepared QBs of all time but he is bassically 500 in big games(regular season) 500 in playoffs and 500 in SBs. He has been the problem as much as the savior.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 8, 2010 4:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

This is the money comment

Manning will own probably every post season passing record when he retires, and be up among the all time leaders in every stat for the regular season. But for all the wins and playoff games, he’s only 1-1 in the SB. The Colts are a bit like the Iggles (except they have actually won a SB) tons of wins this past decade, but not many championships. Once Peyton retires, they will become just another team, because the replacement won’t be nearly as good.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions  

The problem with Painter and that offense is that it is tailor made for Mannings skill set and has been refined and tweaked for him for 10+ years.

I just dont think anyone can run that offense and look good. I also dont think Manning would look all that good in a WC offense.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 10, 2010 2:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree, in fact it is to the point

that they have gotten away with not being as strong in some units as they ought to be because Manning has been their edge. The Dolphins rode Marino like that for years but missed out on the SB wins, and the Broncos nearly did that to Elway.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Feb 11, 2010 1:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep, good point

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 11, 2010 7:31 PM CST up reply actions  

I completely agree with you

But I’ll also say maybe to a degree he’s earned it. He was criticized for it though, lots of people saying he choked. A guy like Brady or Manning are probably going to be criticized a lot less than Romo no matter how the rest of their careers go simply because of the uniform Romo wears, and how his decembers/januarys went at the beggining of his career.

by tyhall on Feb 8, 2010 12:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Guys who win more get criticized less….When romo wins a super bowl…he will be less criticized, believe me I hope he does, I am a staunch defender of him as a winning qb, who just needs a little more time.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

wasnt a bad pass...Wayne gave up on the route...

Surprisenly, he was a non-factor yesterday.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Feb 8, 2010 5:01 PM CST up reply actions  

if Romo would have thrown that exact same pass

you would have blamed Romo for throwing a bad pass and don’t deny it because we all know it’s true, you and many others.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 9, 2010 9:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Hey, JJ, Manning needs a clean pocket

he’d never get that in Dallas, so get a clue.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 8, 2010 12:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Manning demands a clean pocket…this is what leaders and winners do. These guys know who they are blocking for. His release and timing is amazing, do not make excuses for his winning and Romo not winning. Romo is much more mobile and should use these attributes to excel. Are u blaming our o-line now, the same o-line that blocks for romo all year while he throws for these amazing stats.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Seriously?

He demands it therefore it is?

They say Romo has one of the quickest releases of all time, but if all it takes is someone demanding… Mr. T for quarterback!

by tyhall on Feb 8, 2010 12:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Yea, romo is awesome, he is the man, why did i ever question him. He played so well vs Vikings. The saints beat them and lost their starting left all pro tackle….its just all excuses….quarterbacks are leaders and it falls on them to win when they have a good team. Have you ever seen romo grab his linemen and head butt them and pump them up…You may not know what a leader is, because who knows, you may have missed that part of life when you won something with either you leading and inspiring or someone inspiring you. But these guys like manning and brady lead their teams and will them to win. Romo seems to have learned a little about that this last year and hopefully it will grow, im just saying I have not seen it yet

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Are you implying

That I’ve never won a superbowl? If I had I bet you’d think I wad better than Romo.

Maybe I missed the headbutt, but I do remember when he blamed a loss on his linemen a few years ago, is that the kind of leadership we need?

(sorry for helping turn this in to a hate thread, I think Mannings a great QB, as is Romo)

by tyhall on Feb 8, 2010 12:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I think manning is the best, and I hope romo can 1 day be a winner, he cannot be manning because his skill sets are different, but he can be a winner, he just has to be more of a leader, which he actually was more of this year

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:45 PM CST up reply actions  

he also has the tendency

to come up short in the fourth quarter of playoff games.

Hes not lost something like 7 playoff games that were well within striking distance in the fourth quarter.

Not saying I wouldn’t want Manning too, but there is a huge statistical background of him not coming through when it counts, so much that I don’t think it can be viewed as an anomaly. QBs like Warner, Brady (not this year) and Ben seem to pick up their game in the playoffs…Manning may in fact be the opposite. Get him in a tight game and hes likely to fold.

by foyesboys on Feb 9, 2010 12:54 AM CST up reply actions  

yeah, Mannings smarts looked beyond reproach on that pick six McHate

The Romo argument will continue because of haters like you, has nothing to do with Romo’s smarts because they are top notch.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 8, 2010 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Im not a hater, you are a day dreamer….. I hope romo wins, and believe he can, but until he does, he is what he is….And people like Warren Moon and Dan Marino put up all the numbers but they always fall short when talking about Joe montana and John Elway

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

You did call him a "hater"...
The Romo argument will continue because of HATERS like you

~Texas Massacre '09~

by TheHeat on Feb 8, 2010 4:41 PM CST up reply actions  

no I didn't, I called McLovin09 a hater

like I said, try re reading the thread carefully

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 9, 2010 9:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Dallas gets alot of criticism, but they also have the most fans and alot of analysts on their side. The media has built up Romo to make him seem better than he is, so that they can tear him down when he fails….so I put him somehwere in between… A good solid qb, who can be great at times and has a chance to win a super bowl and be elite

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:28 PM CST up reply actions  

No, I dont think so, he calls his own plays, wins every year and has been to 2 super bowls. He was a top pick and has lived up to his billing. He is a champion, and I believe with a coach not named Morris, he may have won again.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Manning gagged away a Superbowl

you can’t say that about many QB’s, but that was an ultimate choke job on the worlds biggest stage.

And I loved every minute of it. He will go down as the most over-hyped pro player…. ever.

by Road Warrior on Feb 8, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions  

lots of people are saying Manning choked

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey

by Seanrude on Feb 8, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh it worked out fine for him here

His OC work got him the HC job in N.O.

It maybe didn’t work out so well for Dallas, but remember, Payton left two years into Parcells’ deal. The Tuna only stayed for three and left unexpectedly.

I’m sure Jerry looked at him the same way he did Jimmy Johnson in ’94. If he had made his plans known, Dallas might have made an effort to keep Payton around, as it might have with Norv Turner after ’93.

by Rafael Vela on Feb 8, 2010 11:29 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm happy for Gregg Williams...

I thought the Redskins royally screwed him over.

How the hell did Jim Zorn get a head coaching job over him is beyond me.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 11:41 AM CST reply actions  

Same here.

But par for the course…

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Feb 8, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Romo and Manning

How can anyone compare Manning to Romo. Manning is all world and a Romo is a guy who is taking small steps trying to win a super bowl. Manning has a ring, Romo is trying to get one. As for choking, I hate to say it, but Romo chokes alot. He also plays well alot, which gives us Cowboys fans hope, but other teams bash romo because they dont care about hope, they see the results, and right now Romo finds ways to blow games, whether it is his fault or not does not matter

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 11:42 AM CST reply actions  

I agree that the comparison is bad...

but I don’t agree with this statement.

“Finds ways to blow games.”

I can think of maybe three games that he blew. The Seattle one, the Giants this year, and Pittsburg last year.

That’s an overmade statement, made by people who don’t want to actually go through and look at the real problems with the Dallas Cowboys team.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 11:46 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree, the real problems of the Dallas Cowboys are never spoken of…but Romo does things sometimes that I just go, wtf was that. He plays well many times also and wins us many games.. but playoff games and super bowls is what we want. And against Philly he almost gave the game away, but our D saved the day.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

He had one play that was almost an interception...

How did he almost give the game away?

That happened at the first of the game when the score was 7-7!

You wonder why I come off as insulting sometimes? You kind find the ridiculousness in that statement?

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

That game was won by our defense! If you want to bring out great moments in Romo history that have helped us win playoff games, please go ahead, because I can name a couple where he kept us from that also. Im not here to bash romo, just saying he is no Manning, and i would rather have Peyton on my team. That does not mean I do not think Romo can win a super bowl, but way more pieces have to be in place for him to win than manning.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Someone was scored 34 points!

The defense played their ass off but if your going to sit here and say that Romo almost cost them the game and the defense bailed them out, than you don’t know what your talking about.

You know what he did after the INT got overturned, went down the field and they scored a TD.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Dude, what are you saying, that Romo is Peyton Manning, what is your point, Make your point. Do you believe Romo Should not be criticized, do you believe any player is beyond criticism, there all human and all make mistakes. Manning is better than Romo, what exactly is your point.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:07 PM CST up reply actions  

My point?

I never said Romo shouldn’t be criticized or that he is Manning.

I never EVER said that.

I said that I don’t think Manning is entitled to not getting criticized. Troy Aiman wasn’t, Tom Brady isn’t, Brett Favre isn’t, and neither is Manning.

What about what I’m saying isn’t clear to you?

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 12:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Ok good, than we agree. Everyone can be criticized, obviously if someone makes a mistake they can be. So when people criticize romo, dont cry that espn hates you..

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

BTW, if philly intercepts that ball and scores, we have a whole different game, and throwing that pass was absolutely lame. I defend romo all the time, many times, like that its hard to. He was lucky.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

OK

Well whenever they lose it’s on Romo, whenever they win it’s because the defense bails them out…

That makes PERFECT sense.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

No, romo wins many games….but he is no Manning, he needs help on his team, where Manning can be the reason they win, he is a coach/player. Romo is a top 10 qb, who can win a super bowl, manning is the best qb, who has won a super bowl and been to another, just like Favre, who people love more than anything

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Once again....

please find the comparison that I’ve made between the two QB’s… because I don’t think that I’ve made any.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions  

I made the comparison…Manning is better than Romo. If you think different than so be it. You must not watch football to believe anything different.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:39 PM CST up reply actions  

yes, and romo is better than eli

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Ha!

Even Eli could figure that one out.

by tyhall on Feb 8, 2010 12:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

eli sucks, there is a perfect example of overhype…he gets credit because his brother is great. his super bowl win was good, but his defense won him that title

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 1:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah I don't watch football...

I don’t believe Romo is better than Manning, but the fact that you are calling out people’s football IQ’s is ironic.

That Philly game that the defense “saved” argument was one of the worst football critiques I’ve ever seen of a game.

The defense played lights out but they didn’t save anyone, and for you to say that really speaks volumes.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 1:01 PM CST up reply actions  

volumes….nice one. ok, sorry, i always wondered why you waste your time on a blog, you should be on nfl network

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Peyton Manning has found a way to blow 9 playoff games (many times as the favored team)

and like you said, it doesn’t matter if it is his fault or not.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 8, 2010 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Manning has a ring and has been to 2 super bowls. I hope we can say that about romo one day

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

I hope so to

but to pretend like Manning is so much better than Romo is ridiculous. Quick question. Who had a better TD-Int ratio this year, Romo or Manning?

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 8, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Are you serious, you are a moron, if you think Romo can even hold a candle to Manning, Brady or Brees. If your gonna compare stats, compare Aikman’s…im sure Romo destroys them all, and I would rather have TROY.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Romo can't even "hold a candle" to Manning, Brady, or Brees?

Its funny that I’m the moron, but I am not the one talking in hyperbole. If you really think that those guys are leaps and bounds ahead of Romo, you need to reconsider how you watch football. Romo played better than Brees this year in the Superdome. Romo outplayed Manning in 2006. And not only that, but Romo has played well enough in the aggregate to play in three pro bowls. The spectrum of NFL QB play is nowhere near as wide as you make it out to be.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 8, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Please dont be a homer, those guys have 5 super bowl rings….dont be a jackass and bring up regular season wins…. I am a huge cowboys fan, im at every game, i love tony romo, i love this team, but please do not tell me that you would not rather have brady, brees or manning. Even romo says he aspires to be tom brady.

5 super bowls among them, all active and all have a chance to win more.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Never said Romo was better.

And I honestly think Romo can get even better through becoming more cerebral like Peyton Manning. All I am saying is that Romo certainly belongs in the conversation as a great QB and to make it out like Manning is 3x as good as Romo is just wrong.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 8, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions  

JJ has no clue..to him Manning is God apparently

To me, he’s a good qb like a hell of a lot of other good qbs in the league including Romo.

Bottom line Saints putrid D got the best of Manning in the end, whereas Romo beat that same defense…..

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 8, 2010 12:33 PM CST up reply actions  

hahaha, in the regular season, and manning beats every team and the cowboys lose, 3-6 games a year for the last 4 years. The colts beat teams we lose to all the time. That means nothing.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Manning doesn't beat those teams the Colts do

I was refering to how Manning and Romo performed against the same exact defense this season and clearly Romo outperformed Manning in that regard.

When you’re talking about the Colts and Cowboys winning and losing games now you’re comparing apples to oranges.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 8, 2010 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

ur comparing something that happened in week 10 to the super bowl

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 1:37 PM CST up reply actions  

for one, romo is a great regular season qb, and has been miserable in playoffs, maybe not with his play, but with the final outcomes. finally this year we got over that hump and than got “blowed out” as emmitt would say

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

hmmm

“great regular season qb and miserable in the playoffs”, that is a great description of Manning as well

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 8, 2010 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

except...

for the 2 trips to super bowls and the one ring on his finger

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 1:58 PM CST up reply actions  

manning is 4 years older, i hope in the next 4 years romo goes to 2 super bowls, than i will change my mind

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Just to clarify

The Jimmy Johnson that loves Manning is not me, the JimmyJohnson who has been here for a long time. I believe Manning is the most overrated choke artist in the league today. He got 1 ring in 10 playoff runs because he ended up facing the worst superbowl team in history. I hope he will soon go back where he belongs in History – somewhere near Marino. Peyton Manning is a classless jerk who threw his O-line under the bus when he lost but took no blame himself for the pick-six or the 3 other near-interceptions in the game.

If Romo’s pocket were anywhere near as clean as Manning routinely has, the Cowboys would be a Superbowl dynasty.

by JimmyJohnson on Feb 8, 2010 5:08 PM CST up reply actions  

haha, he has to get there first…..and considering manning has been twice and this year with a D ranked 18th and a running game ranked 32nd, he gets respect

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 5:12 PM CST up reply actions  

the Jets game was a masterpeice

and imo easily his most impressive playoff performance. Even better than that Pats comeback.

But in all honestly, the Pats win and Jets win are the only two really impressive playoff wins for Manning. Qbs like Ben, Brady and Warner always seem to come through in teh clutch – hes the opposite. He pretty much should be playing for the Eagles.

by foyesboys on Feb 9, 2010 1:17 AM CST up reply actions  

in large part

because his defense was all world for 3.5 of the 4 games during his superbowl run.

Frankly, Manning is that magical/out of nowhere 06 run where he didn’t even play well for most of the postseason from being the best regular season qb of all time with a playoff record of 5-10 to 7-10.

by foyesboys on Feb 9, 2010 12:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Manning has had a better career than Romo

Up to this point. That’s about all I can give you in a comparison between the two QBs. In terms of blowing games, Manning couldn’t figure out how to win in the postseason for most of his career either (to use your stigma that wins and losses are because of QBs), in fact, Manning played horribly in the postseason when they won the super bowl; their defense and run game really won that ring for him.

Look, Manning is one of the best QBs to play the game, he also manages to lose a lot of big games. Romo is better suited for this team than Manning anyways. Manning wouldn’t get sacked as few times as he was this year, especially as slow as he is. When it comes to postseason accomplishments Romo is closer to Manning than you think (not there yet, but definently has a shot at surpassing Mannings postseason accomplishments).

by tyhall on Feb 8, 2010 12:27 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

we all agreed romo is the greatest ever and the cowboys o line sucks, that is the consensus on the board and one guy wrote dallas clark is a weapon, like witten isnt one

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

no one said that

no one said anything like that. only person I’ve read that compared Romo to Manning was you, and you’ve done it over and over again. if you love Manning then fine, but you’re turning these threads into nothing but Manning vrs Romo, and can’t drop it when people take any jabs at Manning. please, for the sake of all of us, move on to something else. this is played out.

by strobman on Feb 8, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

im comparing romo to manning, because manning is the best, and as a cowboys fan i would like romo to be the best. what else do you have to do, football is over, all were gonna do is compare people and talk about what ifs….if you dont like what i wrote than stop replying….what are u addicted to defending romo in manning/romo comparisons…jeez.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

didn't once defend Romo

and personally, I don’t think Manning is the best qb in the league

by strobman on Feb 8, 2010 2:22 PM CST up reply actions  

in the last 7 seasons manning has lost a combined 23 games…..how many has brady lost, romo lost, roethlisberger, brees…any one of them

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

never said Romo was the best

but Brady and Roethlisberger have both won more SB’s and Brees tied Manning in his first apperance.
again, just giving some reasons why I don’t think Manning is the greatest QB in the game

by strobman on Feb 8, 2010 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

you may be right, my only beef is with terry saying romo is as good as manning. thats it

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions  

simply not true

QBs don’t win and loss games, teams do. Try again.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 9, 2010 9:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Manning wins playoff games, romo has won 1. Manning has been to 2 super bowls and has won 1…ask Dan marino how hard that is. Stats dont mean a thing…Marino is not even mentioned in same breath as Montana.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:34 PM CST reply actions  

You are right.

Why use stats that can most effectively compare one player against another at the same position when you can just use wins and losses. Its good to know that Robert Horry was a better basketball player than Michael Jordan, and that Beanie Wells is a better RB than Chris Johnson.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 8, 2010 12:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Robert Horry was a winner….Big Shot Rob….better than Jordan…no. Jordan was great, and if people break his records and stats he will always be knows as the greatest. Stats are not everything.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Well you said "stats don't mean a thing"

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 8, 2010 12:48 PM CST up reply actions  

When comparing 2 good players….if you want to take what i say out of context than go ahead and waste your time. Football is so much more a team sport than basketball. Compare aikman stats to marino.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Fair enough

Was Dilfer a better QB than Manning or Warner in 2000?

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 8, 2010 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Why not?

He won a Super Bowl. Like you said, stats mean nothing when comparing 2 good players.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 8, 2010 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

i said its all in context, were comparing manning to romo because they are close when talking about talents, stats and what they mean to their teams, so there is a debate there. dont waste my time comparing dilfer to anyone

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Why?

By your definition, Trent Dilfer was good in 2000 since he won playoff games that year and won a Super Bowl.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Feb 8, 2010 2:06 PM CST up reply actions  

manning and romo

are two completely different styles of quarterbacks

by strobman on Feb 8, 2010 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah, one needs an absolute clean pocket to be successful

the other needs decent protection to be successful. Who would you rather have given our OL problems…I think the answer is obvious.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 8, 2010 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

hahahahahahah….wherever romo is good at, whatever “romo friendly” offense he has, manning would do much better in it. to say anything different is stupid. I believe brees and brady would also do better, thats why they have a combined 5 super bowls and 7 super bowl games between them 3.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 3:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Manning would suck behind our OL

because he would get sacked 5 times a game easy. He has no mobility, neither does Brady.

Brees would have the same amount of success as Romo because he can at least move when a play breaks down.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 9, 2010 9:56 AM CST up reply actions  

He plays in more because he keeps winning. Romo has had 3 chances to win more games, once he was running with a botched snap, the next he put up 3 points in the 2nd half vs giants and this last time he got shell shocked vs Vikings, because his team was unprepared to beat a team that the saints beat.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:41 PM CST reply actions  

Manning is the best regular season QB of all time...

…and has one of the biggest drops in performance in the postseason of all time. And he makes the playoffs EVERY YEAR. Manning blew that game plain and simple, he was just off in the second half. And that pick was a Larry Brown sort of pick…about 40 guys in the league would’ve picked that one off.

Just maybe not Newman :)

by blee on Feb 8, 2010 12:52 PM CST reply actions  

hahahaha

while watching the game last night a friend of mine made a similar statement

by strobman on Feb 8, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Very true

I think those who were riding Mannings jock last week saying he was the best QB of all-time are a little shell shocked and a tad defensive today. As a matter of fact, even if he won yesterday, I’d be hard pressed to say he’s even the best active QB.

And if you want to take a look at the playoffs, check out these numbers:

Playoff Records – Montana 16-7, Brady 14-4, Elway 14-8, Favre 13-11, Warner 9-4, Roethlisberger 8-2, Manning 9-9.

by Road Warrior on Feb 8, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

do you think that is mannings final stat line for playoff games, since he never plays in wild card games you should discard wild card wins and than see what the stats are

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 2:52 PM CST up reply actions  

discarding wild card wins...

would put Manning’s post season numbers below .500

by strobman on Feb 8, 2010 2:58 PM CST up reply actions  

yea, that sux, and super bowl records?

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 2:59 PM CST up reply actions  

superbowl records are as follows

Montana 4-0, Brady 3-1, Roethlisberger 2-0, Elway 2-3, Favre 1-1, Manning 1-1, Warner 1-2

by strobman on Feb 8, 2010 3:09 PM CST up reply actions  

where are romo’s stats, you guys are all firing me up because im comparing these guys to romo, where are his stats

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 3:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Montana 4-0, Brady 3-1, Roethlisberger 2-0, Elway 2-3, Favre 1-1, Manning 1-1, Warner 1-2


romo 0-0

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 3:11 PM CST up reply actions  

actually its 7-5 douche bag liar

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 3:01 PM CST up reply actions  

sorry, had to do it, for making up things

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

For what dude?

You are the one all over Mannings jock!

No one, except maybe Terry, thinks Romo is better than Manning.

Yet your getting all defensive of a player that isn’t even a Dallas Cowboy!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 3:13 PM CST up reply actions  

i know you said manning is better, im not arguing with you. terry takes his shots and than disappears and your left arguing about nothing. lets move on

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

and im not defending manning, i dont care if you criticize him, i said that romo is not at his level nor is he at the level with brady or brees and i think romo will be the 1st to tell you that

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

you're the one that started all this

and now you’re getting all butt-hurt cause people are disagreeing with you.

by strobman on Feb 8, 2010 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

nobody is hurting over an internet debate, dont put so much stock in arguing with people over a forum board. u see my statement, if you want to disagree, if you think romo is better than manning, say it, otherwise move on and get back to work

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 3:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I was wrong, but I still came up with a different number than you

Manning is 3-3 in the wild card round, which would put his post wc round numbers at 6-6. don’t know why these numbers matter to you since the wild card round is still a playoff round, but there ya go.

by strobman on Feb 8, 2010 3:22 PM CST up reply actions  

there not important to me when comparing to montana and elway, they are when comparing to romo. terry is saying that romo is as good as manning, i am saying he is not. if you want to argue montana is better than manning, your probably right and i cant argue against that. but terry thinks romo is as good as manning. so thats all i am arguing

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions  

again, thats not what I'm saying

My initial argument was about Manning and Manning only, had nothing to do with Romo.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 9, 2010 9:57 AM CST up reply actions  

why not include romos numbers in that, since you think he belongs with those names

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

maybe...

they didn’t have the best team/coach combo though.

I have mucho respect for Payton now. There was one call I didn’t like, but I thought that team played to win and was prepared.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

i think vikes were better than both these teams, because there defense was amazing, but favre choked, that doesnt make favre a loser, just means he didnt win this one

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

manning did choke…i didnt say anything different, except that i was defending his skills, kind of like i defend romo’s when espn or any other fan says the same about him. but we all know its not always on the qb

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 1:53 PM CST up reply actions  

both choked

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey

by Seanrude on Feb 8, 2010 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

The Vikings coaching staff choked just as badly as Favre.

No one talks about how idiotic it is to come out of a timeout and get a 12 men on the field penalty. They were at the 33 at that point, a 50 yard attempt. All they had to do was run it up the middle and get a few yards and they attempt the field goal. However, due to the penalty, they need 5-10 yards and therefore have to pass.

by Baked Potato Soup on Feb 8, 2010 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

i think they both choked also, that doesnt mean they are not two of the best qb’s

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 2:53 PM CST up reply actions  

I get that, but has been to 2 super bowls and won 1. That is what Favre has done. And he still has the chance to win more.

by Jimmy Johnson on Feb 8, 2010 12:53 PM CST reply actions  

It was a good game!

I will say this, I think it shows that a few key parts or personell can change your team from 8-8 to a champion.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 3:55 PM CST up reply actions  

You couldn't be more correct.

It’s a good thing I don’t bet, because I didn’t see either of these teams making it the way they ended the regular season.

That said, I’m waiting for the mediots to get all over the Colts…… blaming the loss on the fact they didn’t go for the undefeated record.

by Road Warrior on Feb 8, 2010 3:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah I don't think that's happening right now.

They’ve been pretty good.

The Saints outplayed, outexecuted, and outcoached the Colts and deserved to win.

Dallas is close, just a couple of more pieces.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Did y'all hear the Saints are rebuilding New Orleans, one touchdown at a time?

Did anyone mention that last night?

"Drinks are on me if Lewis posts >168IP and an era lower than 3.86." by RangerMad on Jan 20, 2010 12:36 PM PST

by jam0152 on Feb 8, 2010 4:20 PM CST up reply actions  

THis was a record for the posts staying on the right

As I scrolled and scrolled and scrolled……..

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Feb 8, 2010 5:06 PM CST up reply actions  

LOL

I’ve actually seen worse, but none where one guy is trying to argue everyone else for no apparent reason.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2010 2:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Sigh, I know what you mean Raf.

This was a major thread jack, I was wondering when I logged into this thread how the comments had already reached 195 when the post was about a non-cowboys subject. Well I was wrong, the commentary turned into one of the favorite arguments the fellow BTB minority loves to hammer relentlessly like a tent stake. I feel like saying hey guys the DMN blog is on a different page. It does not suprise me, the wounds are still raw about what could have been.

Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!

by cowboy78 on Feb 8, 2010 9:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah my bad....

I take the blame for this one.

I should have stopped…. I’ll wear the dunce hat.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 8, 2010 9:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, I personally do not get bent out of shape over it, it just makes me sigh. I used to get agitated by it in the past,

in all honesty it is good to have a debate and accept the fact that as faceless/masked individuals on the net we will behave in a way that may be out of character to how we would behave in person or over the phone. I am glad that Grizz runs a tight ship to where this place helps avoid the problems in a lot of unmanaged message boards; so these little bits of “white noise” do not turn me off this site. The content is too good and well done here, there is no better site I can find on a day-to-day basis save a few (dcfanatic, and the DCShow). I do appreciate your gesture, a lot of us have had our moments of letting the topic get the better of us (myself included) and in the end we still pretty much stick together, this place feels like a real community for fans of this great franchise to converse and debate. But do not worry I do not carry any sort of list or make a point to remember what the TJ turned into; we will live to blog another day and as someone just pointed out 161 days until the next (preseason) game that is something to be sad about; is it draft day yet ;-) .

Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!

by cowboy78 on Feb 8, 2010 9:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I can't believe I am saying this but I Terry you were right ......

omg I just threw up in my mouth a little …….j/king :).

Seriously and honestly, that game was one of the worst I have watched and I was completely bored. This is coming from a die hard sports fan who lives sports. Just ask my wife lol. I watched that game and wondered , where the heck is that element called defense? I can name two really good defensive plays all game andthe rest of the time I watched the offenses do whatever they wanted. I saw to offense’s stop themselves with drops. The Brees sack by Freeney and the INT by Porter is about it for me. The offenses just moved up and down the field so easily and besides some good running in the first half by the Colts, I thought I was watching college football with all the throwing. I know I may be old at 35 but I really like to see the pro game with defense and a running game. If I wanted to see the Big 12 in action I can just turn on my DVR of 2009. I know some of you think it was a great game but I Differ in my thoughts as you can see.

I did like both teams and that made the game easier to watch but other than that , I didn’t care who won. Atleast now, the Saints can say they finally won something. Althought, it could be really bad as a Cowboy fan at Madri Gras this year lol. I will hear Who Dats till my ears bleed.

P.S. Manning is not even close to being a poor sport and all that talk is laughable. He has to be one of the best players of respecting the game and its history. I hated seeing him lose but I liked seeing Brees win. I wish Shockey wasn’t on the team though that won cause I can’t stand that guy and his crap after every play.

"When people talk about Super Bowl dynasties they mention the 1970's Steelers, 1980's 49ers, 1990's Cowboys and the current New England Patriots, but nobody has dominated the Super Bowl like Anheuser-Busch. In recent years, Budweiser has been the MVP of Super Bowl advertising -- making another company the favorite to win the Ad Meter poll was never an option."

Simon Noble

by dubious on Feb 8, 2010 4:20 PM CST reply actions  

My only thoughts about this game -is that it was boring and barely resembled NFL football

I hope the “copycat” league doesn’t start playing this version of “3 yards and a cloud of dust”

It was like watching college flag football.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Feb 8, 2010 5:07 PM CST up reply actions  

+ a billion

if the Colts’ coach was named Wade Phillips, hed be taking an absolute beating by the media today. What a terrible nonagressive gameplan. In the second half, with freeney obviously wearing down, he didn’t bliz nearly as much as they needed.

Honestly, I thought the Colts had teh advantage on BOTH sides of the ball, and in large part due to playcalling, it was a close game.

by foyesboys on Feb 9, 2010 1:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Didnt the Colts put up bigger numbers on the number 1 D two weeks proir.

Didnt the Saints hold this same offense to 17 points. A number that many on this site hold up as a number with great pride seeing how it the number we held opponents to.

Did you know if you compare this years Saints with the greatest show on turf(99 Rams) you could barely tell them apart.

I loved the game. The game was played the way the NFL set the rules up to be. A more wide open game with lots of action. This is exactly the way the NFL wants the game to be.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 10, 2010 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

both teams punted a total of 4 times

that basically means both defenses sucked. I enjoyed the game as well but it doesn’t take away the fact that both teams were offensive teams that lacked good defenses.

Saints held the Colts to 17 points because they pinned the Colts on their own 1 yd line right before the half, recovered an onsides kick to start the second half and received a gift INT by Manning to end the game. Saints really didn’t stop the Colts at all.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 10, 2010 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

The Colts, I believe, only had 8 drives. Im not making the case of great Ds but

NO didnt play bad D either. They struggled early but 1st timers usually do.

My point is that it wasnt that the Ds were bad but that both Os were some of the best ever. A dominant D game wasnt going to happen.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Feb 11, 2010 9:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Good write Raf

I was wondering if Paytons’ gamble at the end of the first half would come back and bite him but also thought man that’s pretty smart. You shoot for a TD, if you don’t get in you have them pinned deep. With not quite enough time..Bottom line, Saints gambled a few times, Colts got conservative and lost.

"The greatest test of courage on earth is to bear defeat without losing heart."

by Benthere on Feb 8, 2010 4:22 PM CST reply actions  

Raf, the tennis analogy was excellent in this game

But SPayton wouldn’t look like genius if they hadn’t recovered that kick!

That was the game, I think-if the Colts recover and score as you’d expect, it would have been tough, psychologically as well as on the field, for the Saints to come back.

I didn’t really like the call, but since it worked, he’s gutsy-instead of
stupid.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Feb 8, 2010 5:11 PM CST reply actions  

nah

he’d be gutsy either way. I support any decision to keep the ball out of peyton mannings hands, especially this year, where (like favre), he was fantastic untill it mattered most.

By the way, I hated the fact that the Colts weren’t agressive on that series by their goal line after the defensive stop. Manning was on fire at that point, keep the ball in his hands…instead they run three times with their totally nonexistant run game, punt it and NO only has to go about 30 yards for a fg.

by foyesboys on Feb 9, 2010 1:03 AM CST up reply actions  

I thought the same thing

that was a real momentum changer.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Feb 9, 2010 6:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Cowboys perspective

We handed the eventual Superbowl Champions their first and worst loss of the season and dominated them in all three phases on that particular day, on their home turf. Just reinforces our status as a contender right up there with the top teams in the league. I really think we’re more closely matched with the Vikes than the final score of that game indicated, and homefield advantage did play into it that day. If you think that maybe just a couple plays going differently (like NYG miss their last FG or we complete that 4th down pass vs. Denver and win in OT; and Favre doesn’t complete the miracle game winner vs. the 49ers) we could have been hosting the divisional round, and then back in the Superdome for the NFC Championship, where we’d already won in convincing fashion once. I know, it’s a lot of what-ifs and it worked out the way it did and we weren’t quite good enough when it really counted, but I just think after watching the Saints win the SB, remembering how we handled them, helps provide some perspective about how close we did come and how good our chances are next year. To not only host some more playoff games, but then host the Big One in the end!

by scottmaui on Feb 8, 2010 5:58 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

I thought the same thing

The margin in the NFL is pretty small. Here’s to next year.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Feb 8, 2010 7:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Good post. Rec'd.

A few simple things turn out different and it’s a whole different ending to the season.

"The greatest test of courage on earth is to bear defeat without losing heart."

by Benthere on Feb 8, 2010 9:46 PM CST up reply actions  

yep

NO is a poor favre decision from maybe not even playing in the superbowl.

by foyesboys on Feb 9, 2010 1:04 AM CST up reply actions  

Nice analogy Raf.

"Oh I would have said something to Buddy but he didn't stand on the field long enough, he put his BIG FAT REAR END into the dressing room!"---Jimmy Johson, November 23, 1989.

by Rohpuri on Feb 8, 2010 10:39 PM CST reply actions  

Your write up is actually more interesting to me than the game. I was bored, which

still surprises me; I feel like I should have found it exciting,but I just didn’t. Maybe it’s because I plain out didn’t care that much about either team. Last year, I was screaming my head off for the Cardinals; normally, I have a clear favorite in the game (or at least i cheer for the lesser of two evils). But this year, nada. The commercials weren’t even that great.

by Fernie67 on Feb 8, 2010 11:18 PM CST reply actions  

same here

I’m still not sure whether I was so bored cause I had noone to root for (I was rooting for the Cards and Giants the last two years), or if it was just that boring of a game. I think its the latter.

by foyesboys on Feb 9, 2010 1:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Those were the two number one seeds out there

Did they look it?

I think Gregg Williams did a great job and his secondary and Jonathan Vilma played out of their minds but is there anybody on the Saints front six who really scares you?

As for the Colts, Freeney was not close to healthy and they looked very average on that side of the ball.

by Rafael Vela on Feb 9, 2010 12:46 AM CST reply actions  

The Colts suffered from injuries

and I thought caldwell didn’t adjust his gameplan. Freeney was obviously not healthy. I think in that situation, given that NO was driving just as easily as the Colts, you take some risks, blitz some with your ridiculously fast D. They also lost their starting cb, which killed them.

Williams I thought did a good job. The Saints were flat out outmanned on that side of the ball, and I’m not sure they have the ability to get pressure on Manning without leaving their secondary wide open. He played it the way it had to be played – bend but don’t break for most of the game, and take a couple chances on that last drive when the Colts were going for the tie.

Honestly, I thought and still think the Colts are superior on both sides of the ball, but Freeney’s injury combined with that awful last 4 minutes from Peyton (while Brees was solid throughout, though imo unspectacular) led to the Saints W.

by foyesboys on Feb 9, 2010 1:09 AM CST up reply actions  

What would be the score if

the ‘92-95 Cowboys played either team in the SB this year? IMO Dallas would win by 20-30 points. SBs ain’t what they were back before FA. To me these were two pretty good teams, but not what you would think of as SB teams,

by DIRE WOLF on Feb 9, 2010 11:07 AM CST reply actions  

OMG yes, no question about it

Those teams would kill either the Colts or Saints worse than they did the Bills, it would get ugly…really ugly.

This year’s Cowboys team could beat either team for crying out loud.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 9, 2010 2:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah...

the overall year in the NFL was just down I thought.

You had very few complete teams, maybe Minnesota was, but that was it.

It just comes down to matchups.

I respect the Saints, they won and they did what it takes, but I doubt they’ll ever be mentioned in the top 10 SB teams.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Feb 9, 2010 2:57 PM CST up reply actions  

not with that defense

The really great offenses and QBs like Aikman, Young, Montana, Elway, Warner, Brady would have had their way with that D.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Feb 9, 2010 4:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Back in those days, at the start of the season, you pretty much knew the lay of the land

AFC irrelevant.

There would be maybe 2 stalwarts in the NFC, and maybe an upstart challenging them.

Nowadays, there are about 5-8 teams that are separated by very little, and they all have a puncher’s chance of winning it all.

I think the Colts were the class of the AFC, but the NFC had more depth.

by I_miss_Switzer on Feb 9, 2010 5:45 PM CST up reply actions  

meh

it depends, you’re not gonna find a totally dominant SB winning team unless you go back like 15 years. and it probably won’t change for at least another 3-4 depending on how the cap works out. I think you have to change what you believe are “Superbowl Teams”, cause there may not be another dominant one for a long time.

The Colts (imo) were definitely a super bowl caliber team and the best in the league this year. The Freeney injury (the equivalent of us losing Ware) and the injury to their other starting cb leveled the playing field mostly.

Though I do agree I think these games are based a heck of a lot more on luck than in the 90s. Team records can swing from 9-7 to 12-4 based on very few plays or bounces. As can Superbowls (see hank baskett).

by foyesboys on Feb 9, 2010 2:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I think so too

MIN turned the ball over a million times in the championship game, and they were still in it until the very end.

Drago says, "We must break you!"

by APerfectStar on Feb 10, 2010 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

still though

they turned the ball over 6 times. And those weren’t exactly shockers – we knew peterson had a fumbling problem, my god by the end of the game minny was afraid of using their #1 rb. And Favre was hammered all game long, it was only a matter of time till eh made a bad mistake like that.

Given how Minny kind of turned away form running the ball later in the year, I think the Colts D would’ve shut the Vikings down…although without a healthy freeney it would be hard.

by foyesboys on Feb 11, 2010 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

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