Cowboys Free Agency '10: A Trip to the Sun-Deck League
by Rafael Vela on Mar 1, 2010 3:43 PM CST
90 comments
The new NFL year begins March 5th, and with it comes free agency. Just as interesting is the possibility of baseball-like, hot-stove league trades. What I'm calling sun-deck league trades, since it's March, thought it may still feel like winter where you are.
By sun-deck I mean the type of deals you almost never see anymore in pro football: straight player-for-player deals. We got a hint of this recently when the story broke from San Diego that the Chargers had approached Dallas about a deal centered around CB Antonio Cromartie and RB Tashard Choice. The discussions apparently went no further than a Chargers proposal, but this doesn't seem like the first time the Cowboys have fielded an offer for one of their young talents in the six months.
Here's a quote from Jerry Jones after the October trading deadline, explaining, in his inimitable Jerry-ese, that he turned down a "significant" trade offer. See if your interpretation matches mine:
"We could have probably made a 'now' impact and just bolstered a position, and significantly, and obviously we would have had a takeaway since it's a young player for the future," Jones said. "By the same token, and I'm talking about the type of consideration, first- or second-round type consideration, but the bottom line is this: Had I not thought that we needed that player right now as opposed to pushing forward in consideration for picks in the future, then I would have taken the pick option on it rather than the player."
-- Source: Bengals Wanted Bennett, ESPNDallas.com, 10/22/'09
I've read this quote several times and am still not sure I have it down. As far as I can tell:
-- Dallas fielded a proposal, apparently for tight end Martellus Bennett, that would have brought either
- an established player, the " 'now' impact that bolstered a position," or
- either a 1st or 2nd round pick, or a combination of picks.
As with Choice, the Cowboys declined to pursue the deal.
Which brings us back to Jerry's 10-11-New-Cowboys-this-year comment. Let's play a hypothetical. (And this is purely hypothetical. Grizz thinks I'm nuts pushing this, but hey, I'm sick of reading about 40 times and bench press results.) Let's say the Bengals come back with the same deal. They still need a TE. Nearly every mock I read puts a TE in their first round basket. Top TE Jermaine Grisham, the player most linked with them, had sub par workouts this weekend.
If the deal is again "significant," in Jerry speak, do you consider it now? The Cowboys do have some surplus at some spots. Do you consider any possible deals for youngsters like Orlando Scandrick, Choice or Bennett? If so, would you demand those seemingly unattainable draft picks in return, or try to land a young safety or offensive lineman in return? (Remember, restricted free agents cannot be traded. Teams that look to trade will want young players under contract, the type the Cowboys landed in quantity and quality in '08. Know also that Dallas is scouting RBs and TEs, even though it is three-deep at each spot.)
Or, do you again say no to any deal for a youngster, as the Cowboys have in recent months? Is there any level of pick, or any player, who would make you change your mind?
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If we got the Bengals second this year for Bennett
that might be enough to trade up and get an impact player like Thomas. Although loaded with potential, Bennett hasn’t shown much in the past two years and he’s kind of goofy anyway.
I’d pull the trigger on that deal. Our defense would go from very good to elite with a player like Thomas roaming our secondary.
In Romo we Trust
Yeah....
He’s disappointing to me.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 1, 2010 3:57 PM CST up reply actions
Bennett's value is probably lower now than it was last season
whey they offered a trade, after his disappointing season. I wonder if Jerry could still get the same deal that was offered then. They had some interesting comments about him on The Lunch Break this week. He has incredible athleticism but seems to lack the focus and work ethic and passion for the game to meet his potential. Like how much film does he watch, how much time off the field does he actually spend making himself better mentally for the game? But maybe it is just a matter of maturity. If he applied himself he could be a monster. I’d hate to lose him and then see him blow up. But then again he’s never going to get the chance to really fulfill his potential here behind Witten anyway, so a trade would probably be good for him and he might focus better if he was the #1 TE. And Phillips has shown that he could be a very solid, dependable #2 TE, blocking and catching, versatile in his roles, and we could draft a midround TE prospect. So despite having high hopes for him, I wouldn’t be too bummed if we traded him… if we can still get the value for him.
well not that he wont be great
but with someone like witten on the roster you dont need a marty B talent. What Phillips does is more than enough as a back up TE. I mean realistically the cowboys have 3 great backs, witten, miles, roy, crayton, tree.. there are only so many balls to go around.
I wouldnt mind trading marty B even though i think he could/will be great
What the French?! Toast!
Jerry shouldve made that deal with Cinci for a 2nd round pick....Phillips is showing he is a better pass catching TE anyway
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
there is nothing more boring than reports on bench presses and 40 times
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
John Phillps might be ahead of Bennett on the depth chart anyway
I would take Cincy’s 2nd in a heartbeat. And I would use it to take our FS of the future in Morgan Burnett or Nate Allen. SS Chad Jones could be a possibility as well. Surely one of them would be there at pick #54. We would be set if we could get C/OG Pouncey in the first and then our safety in the 2nd.
I dont quite know if this is what you are asking but
I would trade Bennett. I just dont think he will reach his potential in his current roll and, for what we ask of him, Phillips can do. If Witten were lost then Bennett could shine though. I would rather get a safety or ILB while his value is high. Plus we draft TEs fairly well.
Choice I could see trading (though I love him) because I like our track record for finding backs in later rounds. With Felix and Barber he could be brought along slowly and if we miss in the draft on a RB it wouldnt be the end of the world.
Scandrick I want to keep. I think Scandrick takes the next step this coming year and solidifies himself to take Tnews spot in 2011. Tnew comes in as our third CB in 2011 cutting his plays by roughly 35% extending his career another year or 2. It keeps us solid there and pushes us back another couple of years from having to draft a CB early.
KICK ASS every day!!!
I agree
Scandrick played well towards the end of the season and in the playoffs, Jerry would be a fool to trade him( only if some team lost it’s marbles and offered 2 # 1’s). Scandrick has the tools to man the other side of MJ, a little more seasoning for Scandrick and he will take over when Tnew goes to greener pastures.
"Coaching is getting men to do what they do not want to do, in order to get them to achieve what they want to achieve." --Tom Landry
I thought we were expecting a certain amount of sanity.
Nobody will give up a 1 for Scandrick.
KICK ASS every day!!!
I wouldn't, jerry might
IMO not in a year we are close for a championship, who would we have for to man the slot, in another year possible.
"Coaching is getting men to do what they do not want to do, in order to get them to achieve what they want to achieve." --Tom Landry
About Scandrick
Don’t assume that just because Scandrick was a 5th round pick that you could get a better player in the first round this year.
Scandrick came out early and was considered a 1st / 2nd round prospect if he had stayed in school. He also blazed a 4.32 forty at the combine. Considering his performance the last 2 year I have to think that he would have been a high pick. So trading him for a 1st / 2nd round pick to get an equivalent player actually hurts (because you’re paying more $$$ because of where they were picked, leaving less for other players).
Plus the scuttlebut is that Dallas sees him as the potentially replacement for Newman in the future.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Mar 2, 2010 7:13 AM CST up reply actions
Wow
I totally agree with you.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 2, 2010 8:13 AM CST up reply actions
Scandrick has been ok, but nothing more
These numbers have been shared here before, but he ranked 71st out of 107 CBs in the NFL according to the stat geeks at Pro Football Focus.
Gave up completions on 62.7% of the passes thrown his way (62nd best) with 2 TDs and I INT. He did good deflecting passes (7 – 37th best) but his QB rating against of 85.7 was below average.
He’s young and he should improve. But come on, this is not the equivalent of a first round CB. Not even close at this stage.
I would characterize the statistics as ambiguous at this point
Look, I’m stats focused so I’m very sympathetic to the argument.
I’ll just point out the following:
1. Scandrick had the best metrics of all Dallas corners in 08’ as per Football Outsiders: 48.6% success rate (incompletion or offensive pass interence) and 5.6 YPA allowed
2. Pro Football Focus unfortunately only has one year of stats.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Mar 3, 2010 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
I like Scandrick
But flipping a 4th into a 2nd, and giving Dallas 3 picks in the top 60 would make me think about it, especially in this draft.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
I would consider it
with the way Phillips blocked this past year. Do you really think Cinci would still give us a 2nd for Marty B? I wouldn’t if I was them. I think Mart B is just lazy.
Hey, they offered it once
they still need a TE badly.
No contract, holdout concerns with Marty B. He’s signed already.
And Cincy loves to collect flakes. Marty B would fit right in.
From your lips to Cincy's ears
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
Jerry says the same thing every year....
…in fact we should be hearing it again soon.
Players are undervalued at this time of year, and picks are overvalued.
Therefore I don’t see a player from this team being dealt for a pick in this draft.
Also, a big part of Cincy’s thinking I’m sure was how they thought MB could help them LAST year. Doubt he is even a thought around there right now.
Interesting stuff
I mentioned just the other day Choice and Bennett could be trade bait. Is it a 2nd round pick? We were offered a 1st round player for Choice. Me thinks Jerry may already have a deal in hand and the hammer will drop by next Monday. Part of me thinks that Choice deserves to play, and he won’t play much here. There are rumblings that he wants more playing time, and I don’t see how that happens with Barber here. Heck, for that matter, Barber might be trade bait, but more likely Choice or Bennett or both.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Good post
I’m in the same thinking tank, I think Jerry will listen again and if the deal is right for either choice or bennett he will pull the trigger. I like Choice, but he deserves to start cause he has skills like that. Jerry got had by MBIII and now he’s stuck paying for it. As to Bennet,t has great upside, but he’s going sideways., if Jerry gets a 2nd for him the draft just got all fuzzy and warm.
"Coaching is getting men to do what they do not want to do, in order to get them to achieve what they want to achieve." --Tom Landry
We got nothing out of Bennett last year
and that wasn’t a problem. I would trade him for a second rounder in a heartbeat.
Keep Choice (play him more) and Scandrick.
#1
if we had to make a deal then Bennett would be the guy; but his physical skills are so intriguing I would like to give him another year.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate"
It is a tough call no doubt
but we are in win now mode – not time to be patient with slow developing flakes.
by I_miss_Switzer on Mar 1, 2010 4:48 PM CST up reply actions
Jerry Jones if your listening....
Buy ladainian tomlinson and play him a lot. Since he is from texas many people will watch and plus I think more people will try to buy tickets at the stadium. Plus he is one Damn good player
IF you see a opportunity you take the opportunity
.......
NOOOOOOOOO NOOOOOOO NOOOOOOOOOOO
Do you get my stance on that?
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 1, 2010 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
It kills me that there is a crazy thought that people will want to go watch more because there a players from Texas....
This is the Dallas Cowboys… they don’t need gimmicks to get people to watch them.
They were
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 1, 2010 4:29 PM CST up reply actions
not to mention there are already many texans on the team
Bennett, Bigg, Williams, McGee, plus that Tech OLB who was IRed last year
by AustonianAggie on Mar 1, 2010 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
step away from the keyboard
if you’re serious about getting LT.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate"
sportsfan900
reads like Bud Adams’ under a pseudonym, or a bad joke.
900, you are aware the Oilers used to draft this way? They took the best available players from the old Southwest Conference, because the fans would know them.
How did those mid-’60s Oilers do?
true
Though that Earl Campbell kid turned out alright…
by sooper jeenyus on Mar 2, 2010 5:48 AM CST up reply actions
You must be related to LT
I give this suggestion 2 thumbs down
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
I like your line of reasoning, Raf
but I’d much rather Dallas traded it’s older players rather than younger. I realize there’s not much market for older guys, but some team might be desprate for a LT, and we could trade them Flo, or something similar
Y'all notice we're a DB away from having a LSU player
at every level of our defense? Both guys came from Saban era LSU, makes me wonder if we’ll be paying heavy mind to Alabama this year
A while back I was tossing old VHS tapes
and decided to run them though the machine to see what was on some of the unlabeled ones.
One of them was the LSU-Oklahoma National Championship game when Saban was their HC.
The number of future pros in that game, on both sides, was staggering. Not just the number of draftees, but the number of guys who became quality pros.
I just want to get Roy Williams off this team
I feel like a broken record for the past few years. There always seems to be a Roy Williams on this team who we can’t get rid of. I only wish our owner would realize despite the financial loss getting rid of him would help this team. I know Jerry cares about losing 10 mil but he cares about winning more.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
It just wont happen before next season. Their isnt someone who can step in for him that will be ready by Sept..
Ogletree still has lots to learn. He could take over late in the season if everything goes perfect but that a lot of hope.
KICK ASS every day!!!
"there isn't some who can step forward"
you are talking like Ogletree or Crayton wouldn’t be at least as good as Roy. That is a ludicrous statement on so many levels. You would have to completely ignore Roy’s play over the last year and a half not to laugh at that statement. Do you realize how much Roy sucks?
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
I feel like this is the repeat of the '08 off season when fans wouldn't accept that safety Roy Williams needed to be given the boot
money or no money. History repeats itself. The fact that this player is also named Roy Williams is so poignant .
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Will you PLEASE give it a rest?
We get it. You hate Roy Williams. You wish he’d shrivel up and die.
You will not accept the reality that he’s staying. Jerry says he’s staying…must be lying. Jerry says WR is set…pre-draft misdirection. $12.5 Million guaranteed…Jerry likes winning more than money.
Whatever, dude.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
If it's any consolation, I think Roy sucks, too
But I have no other choice but to support the “Roy works hard, they’ll get it together” fan club.
It’s quite a bitter pill. Kinda like going to a chick flick ‘cause you’re hoping to get laid on a first date. There’s a chance, but it’s not a good one.
On the other hand, it has happened.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
Clayton is maxed out physically and is better suited for the slot
Ogletree isnt ready. I think Roy will play better.
KICK ASS every day!!!
I just think RW had a bad year. I think he will play much better.
If he doesnt or Ogletree magically matures you bench him. Its not a 16 game committment. It a bring him back and make sure the others are ready or make sure he hasnt gotten his shit together. Im not worried about the cap. He has gauranteed money and the cap is fine.
KICK ASS every day!!!
And crayton is still better than Roy
Were you one of those deluded Roy (safety) lovers who thought he would play better?
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Probably, I dont generally give up on a player quickly.
I wrote a fan post. You dont need to respond or read the dribble I wrote to open it but please check out points 4,5,7, and 8. They will give you an idea of what I think.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Roy Williams shows glimmers (or hope springs eternal)
I admit that I want Roy to succeed but am not against cutting our loses after next year. Capology dictates that he is not going any where this year.
But there are times where Roy performs amazingly. Reviewing the Seattle game, there was the touchdown that blew open that game. Williams catches a slant pass over the middle, controls the ball as he heads toward the ground, then shifts the ball to his other hand in a ‘football move’ which allows him to break the plane of the end zone right before he was down. If he could continue to create those type of plays, we are talking about our incredible receiving tandem instead of wanting to give him the boot.
there is no cap
only Jerry’s pride and wallet stand in the way
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
For every "amazing" play Roy makes, how many times does he run the wrong route or let the ball bounce of his facemask?
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
Trades
Raf, great work as always! Hold on to Scandrick as he is a contributor. Unless you can get a better back in the mid rounds, hold on to Choice since he is versatile. Bennett has tons of talent and was doing well at training camp, but my reservation has been his mental skills. I was disappointed when the Cowboys drafted him so high since he has been a head case all his career. It took tons of coaching to get him to this point, but he will not replace Witten anytime soon. Deal him if it gets the team good draft pick(s) in a strong draft.
Would I be crazy if I said...
Bennett/Scandrick for a prime aged LT?
It's fun to do bad things. -Latarian Milton
Where are these surplus LTs you speak of?
Who has one they’re willing to give up?
name one team with a spare LT under 30 and I’ll show you a team who could flip for a 1st and a 3rd.
Jared Gaither?
Coming off of injury, but as far as age…
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
He's Baltimore's LT
Oher played RT.
If you have two good young OTs, you’re not giving one up.
Oh yeah Baltimore will go for that ...
A 23 yr old six foot nine LT with 36 inch arms and nimble feet – I’m sure we can trade McGee and a fourth for him ….
Imaginationland
It's fun to do bad things. -Latarian Milton
by TexasGarcia37 on Mar 1, 2010 6:31 PM CST up reply actions
Haha
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
Here's one for all you...
let’s say Anthony Davis is still on the board at 21. Cincy asks for Martellus and pick 27 to move up. Would you do it?
is that anti-Davis or
just don’t like the deal?
Davis was really just an example
on the topic of possibly trading Martellus. I used an LT since hating on Flozell seems to be a popular sport.
Is Davis a Left Tackle?
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Look at the teams in the top 15 who need a LT
4. Washington just lost Chris Samuels
5. Kansas City needs one
6. Seattle could use one. Walter Jones is done
8. Oakland could use one.
9. Buffalo traded Peters away last year and their RT just retired. They probably need TWO OTs.
11. Jacksonville used the ancient Tre Thomas at LT last year.
13. San Fran could use a RT badly.
14. Seattle picks again and will want one if one is available and if they go QB in the top 6.
So, how is Anthony Davis falling to 21? Not every one of these teams is gonna take one but there are seven teams here that need one badly and only four really top prospects.
Which is why you could very well see somebody reach for Bruce Campbell before we see pick 15.
It could be a
serious run on Tackles come draft day.
"Coaching is getting men to do what they do not want to do, in order to get them to achieve what they want to achieve." --Tom Landry
do you think
Seattle would take flo and # 27?
by TONYINCC on Mar 1, 2010 7:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Choice
I kept scratching my head as to why he wasn’t on the field more during the latter part of the season when MBIII seemed to be slowing.
It makes me wonder if the idea of Choice getting hurt scared Jerry from letting him carry the pill 10-15 times a game.
If Dallas is indeed in the market for a trade, it would have to be for a #1 and a serviceable backup either on the O-line or in the secondary. Of course, I’m talking sense, not necessarily what JJ will do.
Telly B’s value has surely dropped since his playmaking ability was hampered by his struggles with the mental aspect of the game. Looks like the Hard Knocks vignettes were not that far from the truth! Seriously, would anyone be surprised if he got in big trouble with the law during the off season? He’s got that kind of knucklehead potential.
As for Scandrick, I’d do what I could to keep him. He’s a proven cover guy for that all-important slot position and his play improved a lot over the second half. Those guys don’t come along often. Rookie CB’s seldom make huge impacts, but particularly in the slot, where communication with the other DB’s is so important.
"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Excellent points
"Coaching is getting men to do what they do not want to do, in order to get them to achieve what they want to achieve." --Tom Landry
Choice, Bennett & Spears have the best value on the trade Market
1-Choice-productive, experienced, inexpensive. I believe the team could obtain a second round draft pick for him.
2-Bennett-the TE position has evolved in today’s game. If you do not have a weapon at the position, you are at a big disadvantage. Although, immature, he is still highly valued. Teams will be more comfortable playing Bennett, than a rookie. Second or Third Round Value.
3-Marcus Spears-teams looking for a two gap, run stuffing 3-4 end in his prime, would be interested in him. A very solid, experienced, two down player. Need an immediate replacement if traded, but with a Defensive Line Heavy Draft, could be attainable. A second rounder could be his value. Phillips may want more of a three down player, who has pass rushing skills.
Senseible value for a
"Coaching is getting men to do what they do not want to do, in order to get them to achieve what they want to achieve." --Tom Landry
cant trade spears
Unless you sign him
by TONYINCC on Mar 1, 2010 7:23 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Someone can sign Spears to a offer sheet!
If the Cowboys put the original draft pick tender on Marcus Spears, a team can sign him to a offer sheet, in which the Cowboys can decide not to match, where a 2nd rounder would be the compensation to acquire him. Thus, all the Cowboys need to do is give him a tendered offer.
Sensible value
for all three players,but I would think MB will likely command a 3rd just imo. Do you think KC would give one of their 2nd’s for Spears ?
"Coaching is getting men to do what they do not want to do, in order to get them to achieve what they want to achieve." --Tom Landry
New England, Miami, Cleveland, KC all employ a two gap system.
I believe one of these teams maybe interested in finding an experienced, two gap 3-4 End heading into his prime seasons. Now they know what they will be receiving: a two down player who in solid against the run, but offers little in the rush, maybe a second rounder is worth it!
Sorry becoming dysfunctional..lol
"Coaching is getting men to do what they do not want to do, in order to get them to achieve what they want to achieve." --Tom Landry
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