Cowboys' Draft '10: Mock 4.0 Prep Quiz
by Rafael Vela on Mar 12, 2010 5:25 PM CST
234 comments
Okay mockers, put your drafting hats on.
We're going to run through another possible draft permutation. What if the dominoes fall in this order on draft day one?
- Rams -- Sam Bradford, QB
- Lions -- Gerald McCoy, DT
- Bucs -- Ndamukong Suh, DT
- Redskins -- Russell Okung, OT
- Chiefs -- Eric Berry, FS
- Seahawks -- Jimmy Clausen, QB
- Browns -- Joe Haden, CB
- Raiders -- Anthony Davis, OT
- Bills -- Bryan Bulaga, OT
- Broncos -- Rolando McClain, ILB
- Jaguars -- Dez Bryant, WR
- Dolphins -- Earl Thomas, FS
- 49ers -- Trent Williams, OT
- Seahawks -- Taylor Mays, S
- Giants -- Maurkice Pouncey, C
- Titans -- Derrick Morgan, DE
- 49ers -- C.J. Spiller, RB
- Steelers -- Mike Iupati, G
- Falcons -- Jerry Hughes, DE
- Texans -- Brian Price, DT
- Bengals -- Arrelious Benn, WR
- Patriots -- Jared Odrick, DE
- Packers -- Charles Brown, OT
- Eagles -- Brandon Graham, DE
- Ravens -- Golden Tate, WR
- Cardinals -- Bruce Campbell, OT
You're up. It's not the board you hoped to see, but you're not paid the big money to cross your fingers and then come undone if your pet players are gone. And a lot of Cowboys mocker favorites are gone here. The top five OTs are history. Earl Thomas is long gone. Jared Odrick has a new professional home. So do Mike Iuputi, and Mauckice Pouncey.
This isn't some crack-addled mock. It could happen,. If it does, who's your pick?
The clock is ticking. You can't wuss out and say trade down. You have to make a decision. Give us a name and an explanation in the thread.
I'll come back tomorrow with mine.
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Tim Tebow!
"I am excited about starting 2009. We are looking forward to an outstanding year. We're on our way. We have a lot of healthy players this year." - Vinny Cerrato
I'll take that question.
yes.
by speedmetal on Mar 12, 2010 11:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'd take weatherspoon
Possibly demaryius Thomas who could be the most athletically gifted WR in the class.
by ChrisRichey on Mar 12, 2010 5:30 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Forgot to explain
Weatherspoon to take over for Brooking and possibly play MLB in the nickel.
Thomas to replace Roy and give Romo another weapon since reaching for an OL would be pretty bad.
by ChrisRichey on Mar 12, 2010 5:32 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
+1
on Weatherspoon. As far as Thomas goes, I think 27 is too early for him, especially as he’s not particularly polished and we don’t have a timed 40 on him.
by The Triplets on Mar 12, 2010 6:17 PM CST up reply actions
Witherspoon is going to be scooped up by Arizona at 26th pick. The loss of Dansby makes it a priorty for them to draft a good LB.
I dont see any scenerio we would take a LB in the first round to be honest.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Terrence Cody, DT, Alabama - 6'5- 360
Big Body… Free up Ratlif to rotate between Resting, DT and DE…
Win Loose or Draw...I am a Fan!
PowerOne
Wade Phillip runs a one-gap 3-4.
Bill Parcells runs a two-gap 3-4.
Cody fits a two-gap system, not a one-gap system.
That’s all.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Mar 12, 2010 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
I would go with Cody mid to bottom of the 2nd round...59 where we are isnt bad for him..
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Yeah...
I would go with that. I just don’t like the idea of getting a DT that doesn’t do anything besides stop the run in the first.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 13, 2010 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
Better answer...
Than mine, I just think he is highly overrated.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 12, 2010 6:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Nate Allen
He’s a prospect that’s very comparable to Patrick Chung, but with more range. Chung was selected with the 2nd pick of the 2nd Round last year. Between taking Allen in the first and taking someone like Major Wright or Cook in the 2nd (I can’t see the other guys, Burnett or Jones, on the board by pick 59), I’ll take Allen in the 1st.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
i know we cant say trade down
But i for allen I would say trade to early second and hope to get him then and keep some value for the first pick
Don't Panic!!!
by levcd on Mar 12, 2010 6:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
you read my thoughts
or i read yours i guess, and i think he’s a lot better than patrick chung, actually i didn’t like him as a prospect for the boys last year…
pero viendo que eres mexicano pude haber dicho todo eso en español, no había notado tu mensaje viva mexico chandus; compatriota
You should still write in english
The same would happen if we were Japanese, if you’re in an U.S. blog it’s expected from you to write in english.
BTW, I also think that he’s a better prospect than Chung, I actually believe that he’s close to Delmas, who the Cowboys REALLY liked.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
i was joking men
obviously we need to talk in english, and i can even say that i need it cause’ i need to turn my english better
I agree, take Nate Allen
This is a pretty easy choice
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
by APerfectStar on Mar 13, 2010 12:42 AM CST up reply actions
Sean Weatherspoon. BPA.
EGriffen and NAllen would both be need(ier) reaches, imo, of course.
Take the Value.
Kiper and McShay have Griffen gone at 14 and 19 respecitvely
They both have Weatherspoon going at 32. Why do you think Weatherspoon is BPA at that point?
here’s something else interesting too look at
http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers
Everson Griffen – 272 lbs – 40 time: 4.66
Sean Weatherspoon – 239 bps – 40 time: 4.68
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Mar 12, 2010 5:49 PM CST up reply actions
Anthony Davis
best LT prospect left. Hope the character issues go away, but should have the talent to be Flo’s replacement
Who wants a mustache ride?!?
.....
can you tell it’s Friday?
Who wants a mustache ride?!?
by what_the_crap on Mar 12, 2010 5:45 PM CST up reply actions
ummm
Okung?
Who wants a mustache ride?!?
by what_the_crap on Mar 12, 2010 5:45 PM CST up reply actions
Bradford?
Who wants a mustache ride?!?
by what_the_crap on Mar 12, 2010 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
There's still some great guys left.
Jason Pierre-Paul DE
Dan Williams DT
Kyle Wilson CB
Any of those guys would be sick.
yeah i also thought
about williams and wilson but i think we cand find a backup NT on later rounds and CB isn’t a glaring need. Jason Pierre Paul will be a bust.
Nate Allen is my man even if is a reach at 27
Dan williams
Am i missing something here? I thought he was a top 15 pick not too long ago.
Charter member of the Dutch bandwagon
That is my pick as well
He can play NT and DE. He is a major disrupting force on the interior.
Dan Williams
We stand to loose a DE or two and this allows Ratlif to slide over after next year. Williams will have a year to learn
Colt McCoy
The blue-chip QB, and Roger Staubach protégé, who will lead the Cowboys to the promised land after the work stoppage
even if we drafted McCoy
and cut Romo, in less than 1 full game Tex would be calling for McCoy’s head and griping of dumping Romo in his prime
by nicholas.rodriguez on Mar 12, 2010 10:09 PM CST up reply actions
You know why this wont happen
no way, with so many teams going to the 3-4 are so many valid OLB prospects gonna be left. It is a good exercise and worthy to talk about but I cant see it happen.
Raf
Let me be the first to say I think this exercise is awesome.
A lot of fun actually.
Creative of you to think it up as well.
Thanks
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Mar 12, 2010 7:43 PM CST up reply actions
Re-try!
I’d say go best available … maybe Jason Pierre-Paul.
and i checked … he’s not on there. Even did a name search.
Who wants a mustache ride?!?
especially
if Spears leaves, which I doubt he does. But you can never have enough pass rushers.
Who wants a mustache ride?!?
by what_the_crap on Mar 12, 2010 5:52 PM CST up reply actions
yep
I went Jason cause he’s ranked higher on a lot of sites
Who wants a mustache ride?!?
by what_the_crap on Mar 12, 2010 5:53 PM CST up reply actions
Pierre-Paul is 7 on Kiper’s latest big board and Dan Williams is 14.
I think I’d go Pierre-Paul. After all, both Pierre’s made the SB last year.
Wouldn't JPP be an OLB?
He is about the same size as DWare. I think he fits in as an OLB much better than a DE. You can never have enough pass rushing OLBs in a 3-4.
by JimmyJohnson on Mar 13, 2010 12:45 AM CST up reply actions
The clock is ticking. You can’t wuss out and say trade down. You have to make a decision. Give us a name and an explanation in the thread.
ahhhhh...well then Brandon Spikes
despite combine numbers, he is a player and when our young ILBs are unproven at best, you can’t rely on them both to become serious players, add in age on Brooking and James, you get a guy that fits and that has major potential
by nicholas.rodriguez on Mar 12, 2010 6:12 PM CST up reply actions
just nick is good
i’m only 21….being called Mr. is well…weird
by nicholas.rodriguez on Mar 12, 2010 6:15 PM CST up reply actions
I'm a little torn on Spikes
or Allen, I’m going Spikes thinking may be able to jump up in round 2 for Allen, but the Cowboys have him and Mays rated the same (whatever that is). Well that is what Broddaus is saying
by nicholas.rodriguez on Mar 12, 2010 8:35 PM CST up reply actions
sorry, he's too slow
He’s a two-down thumper—at least until he proves otherwise (we’ll have to see about his pro day work out). Plus, I’ll bet he’s there at 59 if you’re dying for Levon Kirkland Jr.
by The Triplets on Mar 12, 2010 6:15 PM CST up reply actions
We don't have anyone that is James'
backup, that plays his position purely both J. Williams and Barbie backup Brooking’s position, and Spikes did have 2 INTs last year (which is more than both our safeties =’( ) and because of his anticipatory skills he plays faster than he will time, is a much better football player than athlete
by nicholas.rodriguez on Mar 12, 2010 10:34 PM CST up reply actions
Leon Williams
Picked him up after the season, he’s a decent player.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
by APerfectStar on Mar 13, 2010 12:50 AM CST up reply actions
Dan Williams--need meets value
Sean Weatherspoon—if he’s higher on the Boy’s board take him instead of Dan Williams, Brooking’s successor at ILB
Kyle Wilson—again if he’s higher on the Boy’s board take him instead of Dan Williams, adds cornerback depth
Jason Pierre-Paul—we have plenty of OLBs, he can’t play DE in our system, questionable work ethic, no thanks.
Everson Griffen—underachieved at USC until this year, questionable work ethic, and he’s a questionable fit in our system, I don’t think he has the requisite size or the strength at the poa to hold up in the 3-4. He’s a 4-3 end.
Nate Allen—not enough value here, if we could trade down and take him later yes, but we can’t trade down given the rules of the post
"I don’t think he has the requisite size or the strength at the poa to hold up in the 3-4. He’s a 4-3 end."
to repeat.
Wade Phillip runs a one-gap 3-4.
Bill Parcells runs a two-gap 3-4.
The responsibilities for a DE in a one-gap 3-4 are similar to the responsibilties for a DE in a 4-3.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Mar 12, 2010 6:25 PM CST up reply actions
dude why you got such a hard on
for that guy, you at USC or are you a USC alum or something?
The guy is a pass rushing 4-3 end get over it. He’ll get owned at the poa in a 3-4, doesn’t matter the kind of 3-4. If you have a credible source besides yourself saying that he can play end in the 3-4 then that’d be a good read I’m sure, and then you may have a point.
But having a man crush on a guy doesn’t make him a good fit for our system or a good prospect.
by The Triplets on Mar 12, 2010 6:37 PM CST up reply actions
I don't have a man-crush on Griffen
there just seems to be some confusion about 3-4 DL.
I constantly see fans saying ‘X DL isn’t big enough to play DL in a 3-4’
However, there are two very different 3-4 schemes. Here, read for yourself.
http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/09bramel_idpguide.php
Or if you prefer, here’s the key extract.
“Six pure defensive ends have had more than 120 sacks in their careers since the NFL began tracking sacks as an official statistic. Only one, Smith, played the majority of his snaps as a 3-4 end. Smith also had the benefit of a favorable 3-4 playbook, one that allowed him to play many of his snaps like a 4-3 end …
There are two major flavors of the 3-4 front that we’ll flesh out in more detail later, but the most common 3-4 in the 1980s and early 1990s was the 2-gap 3-4, or the “true” 3-4 as some coaches call it. Both ends helmet-to-helmet on the offensive tackles, nose tackle head-up on the center. Three defensive linemen against five offensive linemen (and the tight end) playing 2-gap technique. The 2-gap 3-4 asks its linemen to hold the point of attack and try to draw double teams to keep the offensive linemen off the linebackers. The clog-the-line-of-scrimmage space-eater is a much different animal than the gap-shooting undertackle.
There’s another school of 3-4 defensive coordinators. Starting in the late 1970s, a small group of defensive coordinators started to play a 3-4 front with 1-gap techniques. Despite the 3-4 personnel, those 1-gap 3-4 schemes played a lot like a 4-3 front. Each lineman aligned on a shoulder of their opposing lineman, allowing them to play a more aggressive technique.
How was Bruce Smith able to rack up more than 170 of his 200 career sacks as a 3-4 defensive end? Playing in the 1-gap 3-4 under Wade Phillips had something to do with it."
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Mar 12, 2010 6:57 PM CST up reply actions
So what you're suggesting is that Wade is going to go for a smaller end
who would thrive in this 1-gap technique. And he only has to have the size of a 4-3 end… interesting. I have my doubts as to whether Wade and Jerry will actually do this but I’m intrigued. Good point, cool idea!
by The Triplets on Mar 12, 2010 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
BTW, Bruce Smith was 265.
So it’s reasonable to project Griffen as a 3-4 DE in a one-gap 3-4.
And it doesn’t make a ton of sense to say that he could be a 4-3 DE but not a DE in a one-gap 3-4.
But let’s not quibble over something that’s not going to happen. Although I’d love to see that pass rush, Griffen will very likely be gone by 27.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Mar 12, 2010 7:06 PM CST up reply actions
Wrong
One gap 3-4 DE’s are the size of 4-3 DT’s. Simply because they operate in a one gap system doesn’t mean they can be the size of a 4-3 DE. That’s incorrect.
They still need to be strong enough to withstand double teams against the run.
Griffen would have to convert to a OLB to play in a 3-4.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
by APerfectStar on Mar 13, 2010 12:55 AM CST up reply actions
Size doesn't necessarily equate to strength though.
It is possible for a smaller player to be stronger that a guy larger than him. Remember Glover? He played the nose at 285 pounds in Parcells’ two gap 3-4. And actually did it pretty well because the man was a freak of nature in his prime and was one of the strongest guys in the NFL.
The same principle could apply at end as well. You could find a guy who was 260 pounds with the strength to hold up like the 290 pound guys. But the guy would likewise have to be a freak of nature.
But still in Wade Phillips scheme you could probably get a smaller guy who could play reasonably well at end, but unless he was one of those freaks of nature he’d probably have to be a rotational guy.
True, but as you point out Glover was a uncommonly strong SOB
There aren’t many undersized 3-4 DE’s. In fact all the DL on Wade’s Cowboys now are big. As big if not bigger than when Tuna was here. Wade doesn’t sacrifice size for quickness.
Spears 6’4 309 lbs
Igor 6’6 315 lbs
Bowen 6’5 306 lbs
Hatcher 6’6 305 lbs
Rat 6’4 303
Siavii 6’5 318
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
by APerfectStar on Mar 13, 2010 2:22 AM CST up reply actions
Oh, I'm not denying that at all.
I’m just saying that an undersized defensive end having success in this scheme isn’t an impossibility. Unlikely? Hell yes. Impossible? No.
All picked by Parcells
Wade’s “profile” is actually a lot closer to Bruce Smith (who spent the majority of his career in a Phillips 3-4, not a 4-3 as has been rumored).
In Denver, Atlanta, Houston and Buffalo, his guys were usually smaller than the 6’6" – 300 lb Parcells model.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
They were also a lot more productive
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
But in San Diego most of the guys were about the same size as what he's using now.
Wade’s a good defensive coach. Not only does he have a good system he uses what he’s got available. Here and San Diego he had big, powerful lines, (look at Igor—brought over from San Diego and he’s a huge, massively strong dude) where as in his previous stops he had smaller guys (a lot of guys who played in 4-3 defenses before hand) and got production from them.
Once again, I’m not saying that it is impossible that he might want a smaller guy or two, but he’s had success lately with the big guys, and I expect him to continue that route.
Igor Olshansky?
He was definitely not a holdover.
I don’t think Bowen was either (I might be wrong on him).
In the other places Wade coached he also inherited the players already on the roster. So I don’t think you can say he prefers smaller linemen. Since he’s been in Dallas, he’s had to replace on starter on the line and he brought in a big dude.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
by APerfectStar on Mar 13, 2010 4:33 PM CST up reply actions
More info
1. Spears, Hatcher, Bowen, and Saivii were all drafted under Parcells. Olshansky was brought in from SD specifically by Wade last year.
2. Wade was the Defensive Coordinator in San Diego from 2004-2006. While he certainly would have had input, he wasn’t calling the shots, so I don’t draw firm conclusions from the SD personel. Wade was Head Coach in Buffalo from 1998-2000 and DC from 1995-1997.
3. In 2004, SD’s starting DEs were Adrian Dingle (6’3" / 272) and Otis Leverette (6’6" / 278), although I wouldn’t draw conclusions from that as these players predated Wade. In 2005, the DE were Jacques Cesaire (6’2" / 295) and Olshansky (6’6" / 309). In 2006, the DEs were Olshansky and Luis Castillo (6’3", 303). The 2 guys Wade would have had input on were Castillo and Olshansky, so I agree they are bigger than the Buffalo DEs.
4. Cover the last 3 years in Buffalo, when Wade was Head Coach and presumably had input into drafting and personel. In 1998, Buffalo’s DEs were Bruce Smith (6’4" / 274) and Phil Hansen (6’5" / 278). 1999 the DE’s were Smith and Hansen. And in 2000 the DE’s were Hansen and Marcellus Wiley (6’5" / 275) who had bulked up from 270 when he was drafted 3 years earlier (Wiley had entered college as a 205 lb RB).
From that set of facts, I struggle to conclude that Wade’s prototype DE is a 2-gap run stuffer. Especially when I know that in Wade’s scheme he isn’t asking his DE’s to control 2-gaps.
Anyway, you can argue that I’m ‘wrong’ and that ‘Griffen would have to convert to a OLB to play in a 3-4.’ My job is to persuasively explain my case and the readers can draw their own conclusions about who knows what they’re talking about.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Mar 13, 2010 5:35 PM CST up reply actions
On a side SB Nation article I read. Griffen never lived up to his potential.
Its the only thing I read but they said he is a great athlete whose skills didnt show up in production. Why do want a guy who looks like an underacheiever. I was getting pumped up on this guy listening to you and others but 1 article later Im skeptical.
KICK ASS every day!!!
I don't want too sound like I'm drinking the Griffen Kool-Aid
I’ve only seen the USC / Ohio State game and he really stood out, so I looked for where he was being projected. Basically I’m looking at who would fit Dallas’ scheme and where they’re being projected in the draft. The two DE who could concievably fall to Dallas are Griffen and Dunlap, and of those Griffen is projected to get drafted higher (which happens to correspond with my personal opinion).
I read the SB blog as well and thought that was a bit unfair because I had not seen that in other comments. I wouldn’t take that write-up as the definitive word, espeically because it’s was written by a USC fan. A bit like taking a Dallas fan’s take on Mike Jenkins last year. It’s not going to be objective. Here’s what ESPN said.
“A bit of an underachiever early in his career. Improved work ethic this past year.”
Griffen started as true freshman which, which is pretty unusaul, and may explain why USC fans perceieved that he underachieved. I also looked up his ranking coming out of HS and he was the #1 DE prospect, so the expectations were unusally high.
At the end of the day, the fact that he’ll be drafted in the top 20 (Kiper and McShay have him going at 14 and 19 respectively) is the strongest evidence in his favor.
Nullius in verba.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Mar 15, 2010 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I hate to judge a guy I really havent seen and on one article so I figured I would ask.
KICK ASS every day!!!
I haven't seen that much of him myself
he was impressive in the Ohio State game and in the youtube summaries it’s clear can do some special things for a DE. And he can obviously rush the passer. I don’t want to overstate the case though. I’m mostly relying on the expert opinion of where he’ll be drafted as an indication of his talent.
Here’s the youtube link. Check out the 1:40 and 3:40 marks.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Mar 15, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
What were the average OL weights in the late 90's?
I think the average lineman probably weighs a bit more than even 12 years ago.
The main point I disagree with you is the one gap vs 2 gap argument. Regardless of which system is used, the first and most important job of the DL is to stop the run, next is to occupy blockers and free up space for the LB’s to make plays. So you might find a slight preference in quickness in a one gap, but your linemen are still going to have to be able to withstand double team blocking without being washed out of running plays.
I don’t think there are many 3-4 linemen today that weight less than 280 to 290. I see what your saying, but I don’t agree that Wade is going to stick a 275lb End out there. The quantity of athletic big men keeps going up every year and it’s easier to find these 300lb DE’s who still have a quick first step without sacrificing on run defense.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
by APerfectStar on Mar 13, 2010 7:12 PM CST up reply actions
My understanding is different.
the 2-gap system is based on gap control. the one-gap system is based on penetration. Those are very different responsibilities.
in a 2-gap 3-4 you’ve got 3 DL going against 5 OL, which means you need players capable of absorbing double teams for a full game.
in a 1-gap 3-4, each DL and LB is responsible for a single and the DL are asked to penetrate.
Look at the personel on Dallas. Jay Ratliff didn’t start playing until 2007 when Dallas switched to Wade’s 1-gap scheme and is the possibly the smallest NT in the NFL.
Spears and Hatcher are holdovers from Parcell. In fact, that’s why I think Dallas would draft someone like Griffen. Because Wade has used smaller fast DEs in the past (e.g. Smith – 265, Hansen – 278, Marcellus Wiley – 275, etc). It makes sense that he would draft personel to fit his scheme.
Look, I’m the first to admit that making these projections is difficult. Even professionals make mistakes. Oakland tried to project Sapp from an undertackle in the tampa 4-3 to a DE in a 1-gap 3-4 and failed miserably. And I’m not enough of an expert to say with certainty.
However, there’s no obvious difference between Griffen and past Wade DEs that you can make the statement “Griffen would have to convert to a OLB to play in a 3-4.” with any certainty.
In addition, Griffen was the strongest DL prospect at the combine. 32 reps of 225. In fact, with his huge arms and quickness he reminds me a little of Bruce Smith.
But like I said, let’s not quibble about something that’s not happening. Griffen is such a talented versatile player and a good fit for the current NFL scheme’s that I am very confident that he will be gone by 27.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Mar 13, 2010 8:05 AM CST up reply actions
I would add this nuance
Not everyone is playing one gap on a given play. Depending on the defensive play call, some guys will play two gap while others look to penetrate.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Enjoying this conversation...
…but it’s getting involved enough that maybe it should go into its own post?
Screw Padilla, we already ran him out of this town once.
Let him get drunk and shoot himself in L.A.
Ready for some baseball.
Its knda HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Without knowing the draft grades on players !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But me i would take the best player on the board I would choose probably from Dez Bryant ( if he has the 1st round grade on him)or the best rank TE (if any have a first round grade on them)..
But Since no TE’s ben selected i would take the best TE on the board Jermaine Gresham ( IF his knee is good to go)……
Then I’ll bounce back with trading Bennett for a second round pick.
When you draft the top TE with the 1st pick you lose all leverage moving Bennett for a 2nd.
Teams will know you cant keep all of those guys.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Y u can not carry 4 tight ends!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
& y not Bennett already showd intrest… Even still u draftn an elite TE he can catch and block. imagine haven 2 Jason Wittens on Offense
Another tight end that could make u forget about an WR bc he has become such a vertical threat… Sooner or later one might move but who say now? U build talent and u constanly upgrade…
For example if Sam bradford was available would u draft him? I would if i was runin this team bc his talent and grade at a 27th pick overal would exceed value….But i kno JJ would not blow that trigger bc he said he would look at every postion except for QB..
I kno 1 would go sooner or later but who said it had to be now or tommorrow a team can play there hands as fit.. There is no telling what a team would do for talent (ex.. Giants: Rolle contract, Canty…. Cowboys: RW contract and trade)
If you can carry 2 kickers, a punter, and a long snapper. You can carry 4 TEs.
I just dont think that would be Garrets choice. That along with there isnt enough work for that many TEs in this offense. Teams know we will get rid of one and we just wont bargain from a position of strength. Bengals were a little desperate at that time going with a TE who was in the real world at TC.
If Im going to overload on something It would be a QB, OT, or DT. These guys are always coveted and good trade bait. However, Philly has 3 QBs who can start and minimal interest. Teams know they will lessen there demands.
I also have watched the NFL evolve over the years and have wondered if tweaking offenses to more TEs and less WRs would ever evolve. Being a former TE, I continue to hope and dream of more TEs.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Nate Allen would be my pick in this senario
Free Safety is a very big need, especially with an underperforming starter making 6 million a season. I believe Allen is the third best safety in this year’s draft and the drop-off after him is significant. The likes of Burnett, Chad Jones, Major Wright aren’t as good, in my opinion. If they miss out in Allen, more of a hybird would be selected, such as Chris Cook.
I second that
opinion, in this scenario that would be my choice, Alle, is a really good prospect at FS and fills a need as well, he may not start right away but could really push for some more playing time in yr 2.
I trade Roy Williams to the Dolphins for Earl Thomas..I mean he was worth a one and a three..so the Dolphins are getting good value..
I might even throw in Ken Hamlin and Barbie Carpenter..
miami would be a fool to take Roy Williams contract
plus….I doubt they want to trade for an average safety with a 5 million dollar bonus coming too. U might b able to deal Bobby C.. But knowin Parcels he might just wait in the grass
He was joking lostar
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
gives Dallas a big body in the middle to spell Ratliff
also allow more variety of fronts/moving Ratliff around
It's fun to do bad things. -Latarian Milton
by TexasGarcia37 on Mar 12, 2010 6:39 PM CST up reply actions
Yep
Williams allows a lot of different fronts. He was far and away the best DT at the Senior Bowl.
Sean Wheatherspoon
its pretty simple for me….if there isnt good OL or safety on the board yet, pick best coverage 3-4 ILB on the board…
I hate, that our ILB james and brooking cant cover, and, brooking isnt far from decline..he was solid this season, but how long could he play at this level?
wheatherspoon can cover IMHO, is enough quick to give Wade another blitz option from inside…in our DL are run stoppers like Spencer, Olshansky, so now I am not looking on Sean"s abilities to play against the run…
another mentionable options:
Dan Williams, Nate Allen, Kyle Wilson ….
before there was law, there were the Cowboys!!!
It looks like to me that Dan Williams is the BPA.
If we ran a 4-3 I would be interested in Witherspoon but I worry abpout the fit in a 3-4.
The WR from GT Daymarius Thomas is interesting as is Nate Allen.
I worry about Williams fit but Im going with the planet theory here. I think we can use him to spell both Spears and Ratliff and put in packages that will take advantage of his gifts.
Give me the big man for 5 years and 16 million.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Damm Raf this was tough. I noticed alot of the mad mockers are a bit quiet.
Must be eatting.
KICK ASS every day!!!
If weatherspoon truely projects inside
I like him
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 12, 2010 6:46 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Kyle Wilson
CB depth is very important, and he has a cool RV.
RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.
I'd like to trade down.
But if I couldn’t get any takers I’d draft Kyle Wilson. You can never have too many young corners. I love Newman, but he’s getting up there. I like Scandrick in the slot. Kyle Wilson can start a couple of years down the line when Newman slows down. And the second highest rated corner in the draft at 27? Ridiculous value.
My other option would be Weatherspoon. Once again it’s all about value and preparing for an older player to move on.
One of the reasons I’m looking to move down is because Wilson, Weatherspoon, and Dan Williams are all there. You have a pretty good chance to grab one of those three if you move down a handful of spots and pick up a mid-round draft pick (or at the very least swap mid round picks with a team drafting way higher than you…not a loss if you get one of those three to boot).
Man Wilson and Weatherspoon both being there makes this one of my favorite mocks that I’ve seen. That is so pretty.
Just to be clear:
I know I mention trading down, and multiple names, but since in this example, obviously we’re not getting any takers for the trade the pick is clearly Kyle Wilson. The value is great at 27.
Nate Allen
Raf, great post for “put-up or shut-up” even though half the board is waffling or can’t read. My pick is Nate Allen from USF. Best player available in a need position. See profile excerpt from CBSSports.com.
“The ability to attack the line of scrimmage, make plays in deep coverage, and track down running backs from behind makes scouts take note in the film room. Speed, versatility, intelligence and toughness? Sounds like a NFL starter in the making.
Intangibles: Very good student. Sets the defense on the field. Loves the game; works hard on and off the field to improve."
Yip...
His qualities are the same as the ones they use in Hamlin’s defense (i.e. setting the defense), but Nate does that other thing that I can’t….quite….recall…….oh yeah, takes the f’ing ball away from the other team.
There's more than one way to skin a cat.....but there's only one way to rock.
by 8-in-the-box on Mar 12, 2010 7:27 PM CST up reply actions
There are way more guys available at this position than I would have expected
Wilson, Williams and Pierre-Paul represent the best value at this point. I can’t choose between them though. I’d go with Williams because it would help us out at DE and NT.
Kyle Wilson CB Boise State
paired with Mike Jenkins we would have a premier tandem at cb for yrs to come, he`s the real deal and a virtual can`t miss prospect. We might squeeze another yr out of TNew but if he`s a liability Wilson could perhaps replace him at some point of the season, TNew would still offer excellent depth and could then be the primary PR Punt returner not public relations.
Some good candidates for OLB but we have 2 excellent ones in Ware and Spencer. With Bradie James and Brooking being a little long in the tooth I considered Weatherspoon but is he a sure thing in the 3-4?Devin McCourty CB Rutgers would have been my 2nd choice.
It's Brady Quinn all over again!
CAN’T TRADE DOWN!!!??? Bull-loney.
And BTW, this is not a realistic scenario. Leaving such (higher-ranked) talents as Clausen, Williams, JPP, Griffen, Weatherspoon, etc…were thinly veiled reaches just to get rid of our usual suspects of Pouncey, Brown, Iupati, Campbell, and Odrick (taking Tate out was just to piss off quincyyyy & aussie).
If you go strictly BPA, you have to go Clausen. That ain’t happening.
If you go by playmaker/elite theory, no way you pass up JPP, though Kindle, Dunlap, Weahterspoon, and Spikes are awfully tempting.
If you go Planet Theory, no way you pass up Dan Williams.
Need? Allen or whatever OL you have up there (too many to mention).
Choice? I’ll take Cleveland’s 2nd Rounder and next year’s #1 (this year it would be Seattle, Washington, or St.L among a few others).
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
I'm not going too far out of my way to defend this mock.
Overall it is pretty silly because it was set up specifically to take out the usual suspects.
But it does have Clausen going to Seattle.
WHOOPS!
Crap…now I have to pick.
JPP, but I’d have to think long and hard about Dan Williams.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
But how do you pass on Kindle?
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
To all of you saying its silly,
I understand the team is working hard on researching guys in case their favorites are gone.
Whether Clausen goes in the correct slot is utterly irrelevant.
What do you do if the top OTs, Ss and WRs are gone? Cause there’s nothing silly about that. It’s quite possible.
And so is a trade down
Tampa, KC, and NE all have multiple 2nd round picks and have significant needs along the DL.
This scenario, more than most, would seem to warrant a trade, given our needs.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
That's my main issue here too.
This many value picks available practically screams for a trade down, pick up what you can in later rounds and a high second for this pick because someone with tremendous value will be available at the beginning of the second.
Only one corner is off the board, there is a lot of value left on the d-line, and well Weatherspoon is still sitting on the board. You can move down, and if you have to, move back up to pick up one of those guys like what they did with Spencer.
And despite my complaints I still have no issues taking Wilson here. And now I’m starting to sound like a broken record.
Uh, the team works through scenarios like this all the time
Got to be prepared.
You can’t dictate reality on draft day and if this comes up and you’re not prepared because, “its not plausible,” you’re on the fast track to getting canned.
Hey, I'll take the scenario
There’s a ton of talent on D, especially the DL. While not an immediate need, it would then allow us to trade after the draft.
But it will piss me off to no end having yet another draft without getting our OL fixed. But now I’m starting to sound like a broken record.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
I'm just saying, that of the scenarios this is among the least likely.
But I’ll agree anything has an outside shot at being possible. And I’ve made my pick, and I’ll be happy if I could add Kyle Wilson to this team on draft day.
I like the thought of adding him at corner more than most of the blogs favorites picks anyway. In fact he’s perhaps my favorite player of the ‘we just might have a chance at him variety anyway.’
Is this a joke?
Choice? I’ll take Cleveland’s 2nd Rounder and next year’s #1 (this year it would be Seattle, Washington, or St.L among a few others).
You really don’t think you can get a 2nd and 1st for Tashard Choice, do you?
A high 2nd rounder is even a stretch imo.
You misunderstood
I meant , if I had to make a choice, not Tashard Choice.
If I had to choose, I’ll take a trade down…but that assumed (yes, I made an ass out of myself) that Clausen was still around.
But even given the players available, I think the best choice would be to trade down, as the talent available does not match our needs.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
WR Demarryius Thomas
great size, big hands, and has big play ability. If he could have worked out at the combine he would have secured himself a spot in the late first round, unfortunately he got injured.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Give it a break!
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
Jerry is just driving up Roy's trade value
he doesn’t mean any of it (at least that is what I tell myself)
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
There's no place like home
Just click your ruby slippers, quincyyyyy. You’ve always had the power in you.
There’s no place like home.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
If you think we are set at wide receiver
you are mistaken. We have one wide receiver worth a damn and that’s obviously Miles Austin. Ogletree is set to become Craytons replacement in a year or two and other than that we have nothing. Roy Williams stinks like hot garbage and everyone knows it.
If you think GM Jerry is going to replace Roy
then you are sadly mistaken.
I’m on record as not being a big fan of Roy Williams. But I’m realistic about it. Jerry is simply not going to cut him this year…too much money (and pride). Further, he has stated over (and over and over) that getting a WR via trade or FA is the best way to acquire them.
Has he said anything to make you believe he’s changed his mind? If so, I’ll hop on the draft a WR bandwagon. Until then, I’ll just have to hope that Manny, Moe and Larry (Johnson, Ogletree, or RW) can actually step up…‘cause that’s the reality.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
If Jerry is a good GM
he’ll admit he made a huge mistake and attempt to correct it. If he’s a bad GM he’ll pretend there is no issue at wide receiver at stay the course. This wouldn’t exactly be “Romo friendly” though, since any evaluation of Roy Williams leads to the conclusion that he’s terrible. We basically have 10 guys on offense right now, which is completely unacceptable.
I would hope that Jerry would make the best personnel moves for the Cowboys, not the best personnel moves to stroke his ego. Besides, he said there’s not one position on offense outside of QB that he wouldn’t look at, so that’s a least a little hope that he’ll do the right thing and find Roy’s replacement.
by DoomsdayD75 on Mar 13, 2010 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
IF???
What in the world would make you believe that he’s a good GM?
He’s a great owner. But, really! As a GM?
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
We've got a roster full of all-pro's;
and many of our former coaches go on to be very successful, so somebody in that organization is doing something right. I’m clearly giving blame to Jerry for making a bad move with Roy, but we’ve got to give him some credit for the good moves too.
by DoomsdayD75 on Mar 13, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
So let me get this straight, If Jerry does what you want he is a great GM.
.If he doesnt make those moves he sucks.
KICK ASS every day!!!
I second this.
Thomas would be perfect for our offense. He’d put some pressure on Roy to perform now and once Thomas fully develops it will be time to cut Roy. That’s assuming Roy isn’t cut in the next season or two because he’s a giant lazy slob that can’t catch.
Thomas is 6’3, 225 lbs and runs a sub 4.4. If he’s our pick at 27 I’ll be ecstatic.
I would go along with Thomas..He is moving up the draft charts pretty fast.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
I myself am a GT alum
and as much as I liked Thomas on Saturdays, I am not so sure about him being a first round pick. He is really raw and was only asked to run a few routes. Also, even though he did have to work out of the option and deal with Nesbitt’s erratic accuracy, he did benefit a lot from the 8 man fronts that GT usually ran up against. I think he would be a good second round pick, but he will require a good amount of seasoning at the next level.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Mar 14, 2010 1:23 AM CST up reply actions
Kindle..
everyone says u cant have too many LB’s in a 3-4…and can you imagine having ware with spencer looking like he had the light turning at the end of the season, with kindle and butler as back ups? Plus adopting a dont fall in love with a guy philosophy, allows us to possibly trade one of the 3 later outta spencer,butler, and kindle…
"Let me tell you sumthin' son ! an ass whippin' hurts no matter what kinda shape your in ! " Stone Cold Steve Austin
If kindle was there...
Somebody will be getting a deal, Id love kindle but that would feel like overkill in olbs
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 12, 2010 8:35 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Kindle, dunlap, JPP, others
lots of OLBs there, dont they say you can never have to many pressure players. all of a sudden that becomes our problem. imagine if one of them is a ware waiting to happen. how many first rounders could we get for him. I know that is about as likely as the draft falling exactly this way but imagine.
Trade Back, CB McCourty, RB Matthews, or LB Jerry Hughes in that order
Like Wilson, but prefer McCourty for his willingness to tackle. And I think Hughes will be the best 3-4 linebacker on the board, despite other conversion candidates who are ranked higher as prospects in general.
can't trade back tho...
so McCourty
by nicholas.rodriguez on Mar 12, 2010 8:39 PM CST up reply actions
Carlos Dunlap
A 3-4 DE body with the ability to get to the QB.
All of these are nice picks – good job jsams
Jason Pierre-Paul DE
Dan Williams DT
Kyle Wilson CB
I'll go
Nate Allen but only because I’ve gone stark raving safety mad. I’ve totally come around on your original idea of Pouncey though. I think it makes the most sense assuming Thomas, Lupati and Bryant are all gone.
by Satch30 on Mar 12, 2010 8:19 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I think I would go with Nate Allen or Dan Williams.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Nate Allen
My first thought was Nate Allen but I went ahead and scanned the post. My compliments Raf. This post put the bloggers into a much different position than the usual judging after the cow is out of the barn.
Nate Allen profile
Nate Allen S South Florida
TALENT BOARD
Round 1
STRENGTHS
Nate has good size, speed and the overall athleticism to be an excellent safety for the team that drafts him. He shows a good burst to the ball and takes good angles when going towards the play to make a tackle. Nate is one of the smartest safeties in this draft. He shows excellent leadership skills and is like a coach on the field. He has great on-field analytical skills (walk-and-talk skills) that are so necessary for a good safety to have in order to get the players around him in the correct position as he is walking to his position. Nate understands how the defensive backs need to interact in concert with the linebackers in front of him. He plays mostly in a zone coverage scheme, but his college team does use him as a single free safety because of his good speed, football intelligence and his ability to tackle and take good angles. He is a head up, wrap up, squeeze and drive tackler who will punish anyone with a hard, clean tackle. He reminds me a lot of Brian Dawkins (S Denver Broncos).
NEEDS TO IMPROVE
Nate needs to develop his man-on-man cover skills. He plays most of the time with the play in front of him, so he has not developed the skills needed right now to be a true cover safety. He has the talent; he just has some bad habits because of so much zone coverage that will get him beat in a cover safety situation. Basically, he peaks way too early in coverage into the backfield, which slows him down and allows players to get behind him. Those fast WR/TE’s and H-backs will take advantage of this and burn him for some big plays. I have no doubt that Nate will correct this little problem. He is too smart not to figure this out and be successful in the NFL.
BOTTOM LINE
Nate is a hell of a safety right now — you could plug him into your defense and he will play at a very high level his first year. Look for the combine and see what his change of direction skills (shuttle) are and that will tell you if this kid can become a Troy Polamalu-type of safety or a Brian Dawkins-type of safety. Either way, you’ve got a Pro Bowl safety and I would think you would be pretty happy drafting a safety that can make your defense more successful. Look for Nate to go in the second round, but if there is a need for a pure safety in the latter part of the first round, you just might see him sneak into the first round. The Colts, Jets, Saints and Vikings all need a pure safety who has the leadership skills and football intelligence similar to Nate’s. When I see a player like Nate, I’m amazed that Taylor Mays (S USC) would get even a sniff of the first round. Remember, drafting a player with obvious talent over a media-hyped player without obvious talent is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Drew Boylhart 2/10
Pierre-Paul or Kindle or trade down
Jason Pierre-Paul DE South Florida
Sergio Kindle LB Texas
TRADE UP AND GET THEM
BEFORE THEY’RE GONE!
There, how’s that?
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
all the good players are long gone
i wouldnt want to trade away 3 picks or give anything up next year
Morgan Burnett FS
Size, natural ball hawk, at a position of real need. Great Size for the position, some people like him much more than Thomas. I might be one of them.
JPP South Florida DE/OLB not a need position and has a high bust factor – not a lot of reps against top talent only played one year at SF. And he is only a DE in the nickel so you wanna sit Ware or Spencer?
Kyle Williams DB – Team has 3 DB’s who are better than him right now. A luxury the team can’t afford is a first round ST player.
Sean Witherspoon ilb/olb – Have two picks from the 09’ draft who play the same position. Have 2 ProBowl players at OLB right now.
Brandon Spikes/Dan Williams – can get what they do later and cheaper in the Draft. Williams would be a first round back up and lots of players in this draft can be a 2 down LB without the first round cost.
The answer is Burnett. They could take him first in any scenario and I’d be happy.
You'd take a mid second rounder with the 27th pick?
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Burnett has early second mojo right now
Some ppl have him as the second FS taken. He is the best FS in the draft not named Berry. Remember in the new passing NFL FS with ballhawking skills rise.
by alanTdot. on Mar 13, 2010 12:36 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, but out of all the FS prospects he's the least polished...
He was such a beast in College because he’s a freak of nature, he’ll need to be much more than that in the NFL, which is why some people believe that he has a high risk of boom or bust.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
i think you really have to take advantage of the DL and OLB strength left and take BPA there
lots to choose from: D. Williams, Griffen, Kindel, JPP, weatherspoon, ect
What's with this Kyle Wilson stuff?
We have no need at corner. Demaryius Thomas is the pick.
I guess I would go with Kyle Wilson
I like having another good CB, but that is just my gut talking.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
interesting
my gut is saying “Tacos!”
It's fun to do bad things. -Latarian Milton
by TexasGarcia37 on Mar 12, 2010 9:12 PM CST up reply actions
I am not much of a draft guy, so the only thing I have to go by is my gut, which is now hungry, got go feed my advisor.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
Everyone has pretty much summed up the BPA's
NT Dan Williams, CB Kyle Wilson, DE Jason Pierre-Paul
I’m not a believer that Kindle or Weatherspoon is 1st round material (so shoot me), and I’m not sure about Demaryius Thomas either.
So between Dan Williams in what looks to be a deep Defensive Tackle draft and Kyle Wilson in a situation where TNew isn’t getting any younger, I’d go with Wilson.
If anyone is still reading my rambling post, tell me why Terry hasn’t hopped on with a Ducasse pic yet?
"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin
BPA
Williams, Wilson and JPP look like the BPAs to me, too, along with Griffen. (I do think that Kindle and Weatherspoon are both 1st rounders, but they look to be behind these four to me.)
From here, my thought process is the same. There’s good value, we get TNew’s eventual replacement and, at worst, we provide some competition at the nickel corner position (and the loser becomes the best 4th corner in the league).
Raf, this has been tremendous fun and I feel like I’ve learned something. Thanks for setting this up!
Great Exercise Raf.
With a no trade down situation, I would take Kyle Wilson . Never enough good corners in a long season. Nate Allen is a safety that I would trade up in the second to get if we could. Then J.D. Walton C in the third.
GIVE IT UP AND GET EDWARDS
I wouldnt pick anyone i would get ray edwards from the vikes and give up that pick and then go after otagwe then we would have a great cover safety and a great end in edwards
an injured Columbo made Edwards look like a star
he is not worth it.
+1
RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.
by aussie_cowboy on Mar 12, 2010 9:30 PM CST up reply actions
Edwards played good all year long not just against us he had a really good year and with his speed he would be a great fit with us
I have to go Jason Pierre-Paul
This kid is going to be a ball of fire. He’s not the most NFL ready 3-4 DE that ever came up, but the sky is the limit. He’d actually have to put on some weight. At 6-6, 260 he’s probably better suited to OLB for the Boys. He’s the best player available, and at the 27th pick you CANNOT pass up a talent like that. Imagine having Ware, Spencer, and Pierre-Paul scrambling around before the snap. An offense wouldn’t know what to do. That would be an unblockable trio of pass rushers. I’m thinking OLB rotation for the ages.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
JPP has one year vs top NCAA talent
And he can’t play DE in the 3-4 at 260. Not in year one anyway. So you would have a 1st rounder playing ST and a rotational DT in the nickel
Did you see I suggested he play OLB, or did you only read the first sentence?
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Almost forgot
Pierre-Paul makes people fumble. He would also allow Ware and Spencer to take breathers, and we saw what Ware can do late in the game when he’s had a few breathers.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
JPP has one year against Div 1 Talent
And unless he is a leverage wizard, he isn’t playing DE in the base 3-4 anytime soon. And a first rounder for a player to give our two all pros a breather is excessive.
Yeah, you said that before.
So why is he rated as high as 10th, and no lower than 20th? Because he’s a physical freak. He’s also killed at every level he’s played, including Division 1A. Look, we were asked to pick someone in a difficult situation. I picked, you picked. Neither pick makes much sense. We both took BPA according to our differing opinions. At least there are others taking JPP. You’re on a deserted island with Burnett.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Sorry for the double reply
Moblie texting doesn’t refresh like it should.
You made good points. I wasn’t trying to be belligerent.
And Fighter is on the island with me on Burnett.
Dan Willliams is my pick
He fits all of my criteria. He is a wrecking ball, and played very well against Bama.
Hey Raf
Do you really believe 49ers could take Spiller with Gore and the 2nd year RB drafted last year? Or was this just an exercise in who Dallas will pick with the favorites off the board? Thanks.
Dan Williams
Definitely not the most glaring need, but I don’t see how we could pass on a guy like that. Incredible value for a 27th pick, although I wouldn’t be all that thrilled with this pick unless we still got a very good FS on the 2nd.
by Cowboysaficionado on Mar 12, 2010 9:52 PM CST reply actions
Is Allen actually a playmaker in coverage?
I can’t tell cause I never watched any of his tape and the only thing available to me is his stats and youtube highlight vids. That said, 10 interceptions doesn’t strike me as an overwhelming number. Could anyone share an opinion on this?
by Cowboysaficionado on Mar 12, 2010 10:20 PM CST reply actions
Wow, what a great exercise in war room decision-making
Okay, my top 3:
A. Weatherspoon — If he does project inside, then this should be a no-brainer because ILB is going to become a position of need very shortly. Yes, I know we have Jason Williams, but it wouldn’t hurt to have top shelf talent coming in at a position that has been a shortcoming in years past. I am a firm believer that a 3 down LB will make a world of difference to the defensive unit. Plus, can’t have too many linebackers, right?
B. Allen — He would be my top pick, but I think his value at 27 is slightly lower. That said, if we want improved safety play immediately, then this is the guy to have. And I would disagree with anyone that says Allen is a reach at this pick. If you have enough faith in your scouting, and the player fills a position of need, then that is not a reach at all. Another thing that drops him to the second slot is that the dropoff to the next safety does not seem as large to me — there will still be good value in the second round.
C. Williams — We’ve been crying for a part-time DL for quite a while. And here’s a guy that can plug in at both DE and NT. Definitely not a sexy pick, but one that could get the job done, and well, for quite some time.
Movie Reference
by accidental innuendo on Mar 12, 2010 10:22 PM CST reply actions
true..
tho looking at all the other picks, seemed like you all were favoring some sort of realistic mock (Eagles and Redskins got likely picks)
Giants…dunno about that. If its an OG (moving Diehl to RT)…dunno how Pouncey is better then Iupati
Master of the squeegee
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 12, 2010 10:40 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, raf mentioned that the point of his exercise was not to try and predict exactly where the draftees would go
but a “what if” situation where the players that we were mocking or hoping for were all taken.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
it is a interesting exercise
really got a good look into other prospects that the Cowboys might grab
by nicholas.rodriguez on Mar 12, 2010 11:34 PM CST up reply actions
Sean Weatherspoon
That’s an ILB in the 3-4. Why? Because the guy just looks like a natural when he’s out there playing and I have no doubt that he’s a first rounder. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see him go much earlier when the draft really rolls around. He’s the second best LB in the draft as far as I’m concerned.
Now, I know what you’re saying. “But we already have a million linebackers!” That’s the point. Soon we’ll be able to deploy to 3-6-2 defensive package. Maybe even the 2-7-2 or 0-9-2. They’ll never see it coming. We’ll be the best run defense ever.
Kyle Wilson
shutdown corners dont grow on trees and not to mention he would instantly upgrade our return game. option b would be carlos dunlap the guy is an absolute monster when he wants to be and since it seems like spears could be on his way out this would definitely fit one of our very few “needs”
by Demarion Warber on Mar 12, 2010 11:10 PM CST reply actions
Dan Williams or Sergio Kindle
Adopted Giant: Mike Krukow.
Grab Some Pine, Meat
Kevin Frandsen: The best SS on the Giants roster
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
You know, there's a lot more people calling for Kyle Wilson than I expected.
Not that I thought I was any kind of unique, but usually my thoughts don’t always mesh that well with that big a percentage of Cowboys fans.
Devin McCourty
The need for a spell for Rat seems to be less than the need to find a) a future replacement for Newman(between he and Scandrick) and b) a potential returner with fast speed. Plus, he has blocked quite a few kicks in his career as well.
We can find a guy to be an upgrade over Siavii in the later rounds. McCourty seems to give the bigger value of a solid CB, and ST ace(returns/blocks/coverage) over Wilson.
Analysis
Read & React: Reads receiver’s body language to see if his man is the primary target. Quick to jump routes because he reads the quarterback well. Doesn’t bite on stop-and-go routes. Supports the run quickly, even when the play is between the tackles or on the other side of the field.
Man Coverage: Can press or play off effectively. Has fluid hips, transitions smoothly and stays low and is quick in his backpedal. Sticks to receivers on their routes, showing excellent change of direction. Plays more physically than you would expect for his size, using his hands to jam on the line and maintain contact downfield. Larger receivers will use their size to shield him from slants and crossing patterns.
Zone Coverage: Should make a very good zone corner in the NFL. Good awareness, keeping one eye on the short receiver and another on any players trying to hit the hole behind him. Comes off his man to react to a ball in the air. Makes the easy interception, goes up to get the ball and has strong hands. Will freelance when no receiver lines up on his side, leaving his zone open.
Closing/Recovery: Baits quarterbacks into throwing in his direction, closing very well when the ball is in front of him. Good plant and drive with body control. Takes the proper angle to the receiver. Lacks elite speed, but can recover quickly enough when picked on crossing or drag routes to make the tackle.
Run Support: Very willing (and able) to support the run. Attacks running backs coming into his area, bringing them down with veracity. Holds up his man to force plays inside. Hustles across the field to plays on the opposite sideline. Tough player, but still lacks the size to consistently get off downfield blocks from larger receivers.
Tackling: Wiry strong and solid in his tackling technique. Brings his hips and wraps ballcarriers when straight-on in his sights. Doesn’t give up many yards after catch. Attacks screens, even after push off from larger receivers. Avoids blocks in the open field, usually wrapping a leg instead of cutting. Rarely misses completely, even against elusive runners. Should be one of the better special teams players in his class.
Intangibles: Reliable veteran who loves to play the game. Took a leadership role in 2009 with Jason McCourty and safety Courtney Greene in the NFL. Very good student who made multiple Big East All-Academic teams.
NFL Comparison: Ronde Barber, Buccaneers (If that is the comparison, I would say DMC would be a little bit faster with his 40 time)
Why?
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
by APerfectStar on Mar 13, 2010 1:10 AM CST up reply actions
Well...
He’s probably the best player available on the board right now. I’d like Dan Williams, Sean Weatherspoon, Sergio Kindle, Everson Griffen, Devin McCourty, and Pierre Paul are all very very highly regarded prospects…the issue is that they may not be at positions of need, and Pierre Paul looks more like an Elvis Dummervil type anyways. They could take value and just stockpile talent, it’s not like any of these players can’t find their way into the playing time rotation, and perhaps find themselves as attractive trade pieces (though this isn’t baseball, the trades in the NFL almost never make sense) or they could just trade out of the first round….may be the best decision. Try to trade into the early 2nd and maybe take Nate Allen.
AWESOME idea though, though a more realistic mock would have the Cardinals upgrading their pass rush, Kindle would be a fine choice to replace Dansby, and the Raiders drafting Campbell or Pierre Paul.
Good idea Raf,
For me, defensive lineman Dan Williams is probably the best value at a position where I believe we do have a need.
Idea for a Poll, Raf
Perhaps an idea for a poll would be suppose a blue chipper at a position that’s not necessarily a need, like a pass rushing OLB like Kindle, Weatherspoon, or Pierre Paul, a good nose tackle, like a Dan Williams; then another option would be taking a player that may not fit with the Cowboys like Everson Griffen; the next option would be to reach for a player you like but isn’t a good value in the first; or try to trade out of the first. See what people say, I know a lot of people really like the idea of trading out, but passing on Dan Williams, Jason Pierre Paul (even though I think he’s overrated), or Sergio Kindle is pretty tough.
Great Idea BTW
If I had to choose from the remaining players and Sean Weatherspoon was there, along with Carlos Dunlap, it would be a very tough decision. I think you would have to take Spoon. I mean, look at our depth at the ILB position. It’s awful at best. Bobby Carpenter, Stephen Hodge coming off of injury, and Jason Williams, coming off inactive. We will lose Carp after this year. Thus diminishing our depth even more, and who knows who Hodge will be coming off of micro-fracture surgery. Dan Williams, Everson Griffen, Jason Pierre-Paul, Sergio Kindle are all good ideas but for the most part, they will be playing behind Pro-Bowl studs. Sean Weatherspoon seem like he would be able to have an immediate impact. In summary, my theory is in the first round, no CB, OLB, RB, QB, TE, DT. Anything else is fine by me….
by 92DoverTiger112 on Mar 13, 2010 7:17 AM CST reply actions
With that scenerio I would trade down into the second round..which is more than likely will happen anyway.
Pouncey is not going in the top 20…I have him going to Indy at 31 or top of the second round.
The Giants really need LB help more than OL. I have ILB Brandon Spikes or Sergio Kindle going to the Giants at 15.
If we traded back you could see a player like McCluster or Ducasse being selected mid or late second round.
BTW…Kirwin has Dez Bryant going to us at 27… :)
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
when in doubt...
go with a big man: Cody.
Not a 3 down player but gives us a big body to relieve Rat and a huge middle clogging run stuffer when needed.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate"
Give Cody a big contract and
he might go to Golden Corral and spend it all.
if he did...
Joe Juraszek would run him ’till he puked it all up (what an image)
"What we've got here is failure to communicate"
DEFENSE!
Nate Allen? Spoon? Pierre-hohohuh!? Cody?
Give me Kyle Wilson…no Nate Allen.
IMO BPA here would be Kyle Wilson, but Nate Allen is more of a need to the ’Boys.
I take Wilson, who provides help in the return game and gives Dallas the sickest quartet of CBs in the league.
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
I know I'm not the only one who's curious...
I’m wondering who you’d pick in this spot, Raf.
CB Kyle Willson,
CB depth is essential, and if the top 3 CBs are too good to have on the sideline I’m sure Wade would line up one at FS so he can get some picks
If not him Dan Willson, add some beef to our D Line
by AustonianAggie on Mar 15, 2010 12:53 PM CDT reply actions
I think I would have to take Kyle Wilson. In the NFL now you can never have enough DB’s. If I took someone other than Wilson it would be either Brandon Spikes, Dan Williams, or Demayious Thomas. I think I would take Spikes over any of the other second options because he is a big mean fast ILB that has played that position his entire career at Florida. I see that everyone has talk about his pass cover skills, but I watched him four four years and Spikes is very good in pass coverage. Just last year he had like 3 or 4 INT’s.
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