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Sunday Poll: Starting at Free Safety for Your 2010 Dallas Cowboys...

Who do you see starting at free safety for the Cowboys next season?

Poll
The Cowboys' starting FS will be...
Ken Hamlin
782 votes
Alan Ball
225 votes
A Free Agent Acquisition
573 votes
A Draft Pick
366 votes

1946 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 248 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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It's still going to be Hamlin

I’m really hoping the ‘Boys pick up a top round safety. If that turns out to be the case, based on this coaching staff’s preferences, I doubt he starts at the beginning of the season.

So Hamlin it is, and I’m okay with it. Yes, I’d love better play at FS, but in contrast with the armchair GMs on this site who are ready to burn players at the stake every offseason, Hamlin has been decent for us.

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by accidental innuendo on Mar 14, 2010 8:31 AM CDT reply actions  

+1

Of course you always want to try and improve your team, but when your defense is pitching shut-outs, I’m not sure it’s where you want to go with your top draft pick. Playmaking safety sounds wonderful … of course everyone wants to see more production. But I really don’t consider Hamlin a weak link. And we may even have the prospects on the roster in Ball and little Hamlin :)

Now on the other hand, this offensive line not only needs help, but it needs to develop new prospects all the way across the line… that’s not an overnight job. I’m still hoping for 2 of the top three being O-Line.

Doomsday returns... Wade Phillips style.

by DalaiLuke on Mar 14, 2010 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Although our Defense had a great year in terms of points allowed

  I think our Offense’s starting position was 30th in the league. Couple that with our opponents starting field position being something like the 22 yard line (I think 2nd best in the league for our special teams, shoutout to Joe DeCamilis) and you have to look at adding a playmaker at safety. Ken Hamlin doesn’t exactly strike fear into opposing QB’s eyes. If we had a playmaker at FS, that would make our whole defense better. DE and LBs would have more time to get to the QB, which would generate more sacks and turnovers.
  I would actually like to see us pick up Oshiomogho Atogwe from St. Louis and then draft Bruce Campbell or Bryan Bulaga in the 1st round to shore up our OL.

by Dare2Dream on Mar 14, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's one of the continuing frustrating aspects of this era of Cowboy teams

We have not generated a high number of turnovers in a long long time— all the way back to the Campo days. We’ve had a few very good defenses during that time, from a number of different styles (we had a #1 ranked 4-3 defense that didn’t get many sacks, we had a sack-happy 3-4 defense that led the league in QB takedowns, etc.), but none of these defenses have logged high turnover numbers, particularly INTs. It’s surprising.

Since the problem doesn’t seem to be tied to a particular style up front (we’ve had low INTs with a great pass rush and with a mediocre one), I guess the issue is a lack of playmakers in the secondary? We’ve had some very good DBs over the past several years but few that could really be classified as a ball hawk, with the possible exception of early career Roy Williams. Hopefully we can upgrade that aspect of the defense this offseason, and the continuing development of players like Mike Jenkins can bring some additional turnovers as well.

Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.

by Tim Wilson on Mar 14, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

O-line is greatest need

I’d love to see a Polumalu or Sharper back there, and I really do think it would make a difference in W&Ls, but I doubt we will be seeing either of those anytime soon. None of the available RFAs are going to be a significant long-term upgrade over Hamlin and draft picks are rolling the dice. Combine that with Jerry’s “motivational” comment about needing better safety play and I say all signs point to Hamlin next year with some rotation in by Ball or M Hamlin. On the other hand, O-line has held us back for years now and we have only 1 good option as a backup. We need a stable of quality backups this year so that we can make a radical change next year. Flo and Kozier will be gone and I wouldn’t mind seeing Columbo knocked out of the starting lineup. With our current options, I only see Free starting when Flo goes down, but will not relinquish the position if Flo comes back.

by Silverblue on Mar 14, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well, what I should have said was a first day pick

But if N. Allen is among the candidates left at 27, I hope they think hard about him.

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by accidental innuendo on Mar 14, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think it'll be Hamlin to start the season

By the midpoint, maybe a draft pick has supplanted him, we’ll see. But I can’t see Ken getting replaced by Week 1, unless a veteran is added to the roster (like Otogwe).

Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.

by Tim Wilson on Mar 14, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, actually i've been thinkin'

we could move hamlin to SS, which is his natural position, if sensi leave the boys and then we coul look for a better FS on draft or free agency, he’s not a playmaker but is a field general, something i think everybody loves into the field

by ratware on Mar 14, 2010 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but I think Sensei's the superior player over Hamlin right now

I’d be sad if we lost him, and I think we’d still have the problem of an aging SS (Hamlin) on our hands.

We need a center fielder with ball skills to pair with Sensei going forward. SS and FS are interchangeable on a lot of the better teams now in terms of required skill set, and I’d love to have a long term solution at the position (like one of the highly rated draft prospects this year, or even Otogwe, although he’s obviously a bit older).

Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.

by Tim Wilson on Mar 14, 2010 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hamlin at SS is not a good idea.

See Baltimore vs. Dallas 2008.

Ready for some baseball.

by TXHC on Mar 15, 2010 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I pick option number 5

Sensebaugh and Mike Hamlin will play SS

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 8:32 AM CDT reply actions  

Mike Hamlin

I don’t understand all the man-love for him. All we know about him is he was a 5th round pick. Aside from that, he hasn’t done anything in the NFL. Maybe he is the 2nd coming of D-Wood. But has he given us any reason to believe that he is? Or is it blind hope and faith?

by JimmyJohnson on Mar 14, 2010 8:56 AM CDT reply actions  

Based on what he did in college...

he was a fifth round draft pick apparently.

I hope he’s good but I don’t know why you have so much love for this cat at this point in his career.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 14, 2010 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Based on your hype, he should have at least challenged Ball when Hamlin was out part of the season

But I heard nary a peep about that…and M. Hamlin was healthy at that point

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by accidental innuendo on Mar 14, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

That is because Mike Hamlin plays SS

I don’t think they would move Sensi to FS mid season. At that point continuity is a major concern. Moreover, Ball is a lot more experienced with the defense.

For your argument to be valid you would have to ignore all these other factors. Whether a player starts often doesn’t have to do with who is more talented.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

What a fan sees in a player is also debatable

Not to say that Hamlin is a bust. In fact, I was pleased to have him on the team, and I hope he has a stellar career.

But this mancrush seems unwarranted.

Movie Reference

by accidental innuendo on Mar 14, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't have a "mancrush"

I just know what he is capable of, and based on his play in college and training camp I think it is very warranted.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

What's funny is...

I remember having almost this exact conversation with you about Pat Watkins on the old site. How’d that work out? Maybe M. Hamlin should fear your jinx.

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by accidental innuendo on Mar 14, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've been on BTB for awhile

I didn’t post on Raf’s site

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nope

The old BTB site

Movie Reference

by accidental innuendo on Mar 14, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

before the fancy scrolling

Movie Reference

by accidental innuendo on Mar 14, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've only posted on SBnation

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have a hard time believing this because we've strongly disagreed on Watkins before

Does anyone remember else quincyyyyy from the old BTB site? Else I’m getting old.

Movie Reference

by accidental innuendo on Mar 14, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

you're getting old

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Accidental, there was a Quincy

at the old site.

I thought it might have been the same guy too. Guess not.

by Luke. on Mar 14, 2010 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I joined in 2008

I wasn’t on the old site, it must have been a completely different Quincy

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I do like the new scrolling

The old Boys Blog site stills holds a special place in my heart, though.

Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.

by Tim Wilson on Mar 14, 2010 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Mar 15, 2010 7:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 14, 2010 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

+2

Mike Hamlin is the exact same player as his brother. Heck go look at their Combine numbers. They are almost identical. He was a mediocre SS in college and will not be a better pro.

As to the whole FS/SS thing. Wade has already said they do not use that terminology. Both S are expected to do either job.

As to all of the people saying Hamlin was not bad should go check out his stats. 104th in tackles by a DB. Tied for 171rst with 0 INTs, and tied for 203rd passes defended after Alan Ball. This guy is red hot garbage.

We need to sign a guy like Atogwe for the now and draft a player like Allen to be the long term solution.

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

You clearly don't know what you are talking about

Mike and Ken are not related. Plus he had 96 tackles and 6 ints playing FS for Clemson, not SS. What the heck are you talking about? Are we talking about the same player?

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok so they are not related.

They are almost clones then. It still does not change the facts. Yes Mike had 96 tackles his senior year and 6 INTs, Ken had over a 100 tackles for 3 straight years and as a junior, he forced eight fumbles, recovered five, deflected 28 passes and intercepted nine. Hamlin 1.0 was a much better college player than Hamlin 2.0. You can quibble the fine points all that you want, but it does not change the fact your arguement has no factual basis.

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think those stats are real comparable.

I’m not going to say he is or isn’t going to be an upgrade. I hope he is.

I just don’t think that his college career alone means he’s a “starting saftey” in this league.

I hope he is, but I just don’t see where the love is coming from right now.

BTW, not that it matters but 3 of those INTs came against Citadel.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 14, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ken Hamlin was also picked at the top of the second round dude

and Ken is also approaching his 30th birthday, so he is not exactly in the sweet spot of his career.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

?

Just because they have the same name does not that comparing them is useful.

Ken Hamlin has had a very strong pro career (and now it’s winding down). Mike Hamlin would be very lucky to have the same level of success, and I would guess that he won’t.

Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.

by Tim Wilson on Mar 14, 2010 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

How many big plays did he give up. How many times was he beaten.

Did wade tell him his 1st priorty was, nobody gets behind him, play the pass 1st. Im not defending him from the point I think he is good or bad. I just dont remember him giving up back breaking plays. Im sure he did but what was his assignment,.

If the big dogs are done a a high value S is sitting there, get it. Go with value/need. My problem is every year the blog elects a goat and many jump on board with little to back up their arguement other than he sucks. I remember way to many on here telling me(and others) how Jenkins sucked and couldnt tackle and how Austin was a pipe dream with 18 receptions and he sucked. Spencer falls in this catergory as well.
 
We need a ballhawk safety but its far from a hole.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Mar 14, 2010 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Justin Beriault

same thing – people thought he was the real deal at safety. I don’t know that he ever played at all, but people thought he was the answer.

McQuistan was another training camp hero, for some reason.

by I_miss_Switzer on Mar 14, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not the same thing at all

Beriault had a career ending injury dude.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

the injury isn't what I was talking about

he was a late round draft pick who people expected great things from, for next to no apparent reason

by I_miss_Switzer on Mar 14, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

For no apparent reason! The guy had 145 tackles his senior year and over 120 his junior

Beriault was a tackling machine. And he was great in preseason. Those are very good reasons. Unfortunately we’ll never know because of his injury

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

and McQ was never that great in TC or preseason

Parcells just hyped him a lot because Parcells is a size queen and he likes those guys.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Raf was pretty high on him

you are now just being disagreeable for the sake of it. 3 replies to one post is evidence of a hit nerve, and also very d-bag.

by I_miss_Switzer on Mar 14, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

A lot of people were high on him because Parcells would go on and on about him

but he never did anything of note in the preseason games. Ever.

Second of all, you are comparing a small school offensive tackle who did nothing in college to a big school free safety who dominated in college. Me pointing out the fact that your argument is devoid of any logic whatsoever doesn’t make me a douche bag; it makes you a whiny know nothing know it all.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

agreed....

If he was so great coming out of college he wouldve been higher than a 5th round pick. I think people need to lower there expectations of Mike Hamlin because they could be in for a big disappointment. As much as people want to see change, unless Sensabaugh gets signed away we will see him and K. Hamlin starting again.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Mar 14, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

That is ridiculous

it is annoying that people are basing college production on their draft status. Mike Hamlin was the man at Clemson. You don’t know what you are talking about.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just saying dont pin your hopes on Mike Hamlin...

If they were so high on him we wouldn’t supposedly be looking for a starting saftey. Just be prepared he maybe another career backup like Watkins.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Mar 14, 2010 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

No that is not what you are saying

you were saying,

If he was so great coming out of college he wouldve been higher than a 5th round pick.

He was great coming out of college. He was a star on the Clemson defense. He just didn’t get drafted that high for various reasons, such as concerns over his athleticism and poor combine results.

And Mike Hamlin is not a 6’5 stick like Watkins.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

His numbers in college were nowhere as impressive as Kens at Arkansas

Ken had over 100 more tackles and 10 more ints. Ken also forced more fumbles in his jr year than MIke did his whole college career.

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Hamlin 2.0 might turn out to be a good player. But there is almost nothing to base it on at this point. And as Flounder69 pointed out, if we’re going to base it on college production Hamlin 1.0 is clearly a better player.

by Arson55 on Mar 14, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

No

because you are ignoring that Ken Hamlin is approaching 30. He is not exactly a spring chicken anymore.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes those people never hit their prime

Does not change the fact that most players are the best from 26-31.

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually many make it to their 50 and 60s.

Their playing career are 3-4 years but thatsa not what we are discussing. Dont know what that has to do with anything.
However if you think Hamlin is old as a S at 30 then you must be horrified the our OLine is averages 2 years older than that. You may want to sit down before I say this but Flo is 34. And based on your fear of 30 you must think a OL is even more important.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Mar 14, 2010 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

everyone knows that OL hit their prime late

comparing OL to DBs is silly.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

You athletically peak at 27. With the nutrition and training you can hold or come close to holding your peak longer.

RB are prone to breaking down at 30 but nobody takes a pounding like those guys do.

CBs would probably be the next to go because you are literally “losing one step” away from not being fast enough.(Its why many move to safety late in their career.)
I begin to watch a player at 31 for signs of slippage. Thats when the cracks start reveal themselves. Many savvy older guys make up for their slowing feet with a quicker Brain. Aaron Glenn and Jr Seau come to mind.
Signs include getting beat more and/or getting penalized more. Flo is showing those classic signs. His tripping, face punching, holding and getting beat more are sure signs he is slowing. And when it goes it goes fast.
Dropping Ellis last year was an example of getting rid of a guy who showed cracks 2 years ago. He was ok in the 1st half of this past season but went down hill quickly after that. I mentioned on here last year when Ellis was released that he would have more sacks than Spencer in the 1st half of last year but Spencer would smoke him the second half of the year.
Hamlin hasnt shown any slippage that I have seen and I believe he played better in 09 than 08. Of course that wasnt hard to do.
I want a new safety and would pull the trigger if OL was gone and a Safety was the best value but S isnt a prioty like OL should be.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Mar 15, 2010 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

but he wasn't as good as the '06-'07 Hamlin

Safeties and linebackers are basically battery rams.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 15, 2010 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Battering rams?

Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.

by Tim Wilson on Mar 15, 2010 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wait up. Terry said that him and other people in the know like him, know better than to look at combine results.

Terry says pros like him watch game tape. Why didnt his combine drive him down if he was all world on the field.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Mar 14, 2010 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mike Hamlin also had some injury concerns coming out of Clemson

I think that might have dropped him down in the draft as much as concerns about his athleticism.

to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''

by APerfectStar on Mar 14, 2010 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not basing his production on draft status.

I know he was productive, but I don’t think that just because he was “the man” in Clemson means that he’ll automatically be a badass in the pros.

There are alot of players that were badass’s in college that don’t translate to the pro’s.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 14, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey...

I hope he can, I’m just not hooking my boat to a 5th round draft pick yet.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 14, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

he is younger

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually yeah Ken Hamlin was playing well in 2006-2007

I don’t know if you realize this but football players get worse as they get older

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey I have an idea we should sign Larry Allen to fix our o-line problem

because you know it is silly to think age has any affect on a player. Or maybe you and accidental innuendo are know nothing know it alls. Were you guys dropped on your head when you were younger?

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Quincyyy, I dont always agree with you but I appreciate your posts and the obvious time you put into research but,

your sounding like Terry critizing Dez Bryant.
If Hamlin is better than Hamlin, he will beat him out in TC. You believe he will. Thats cool. I believe RW will bounce back and play better.
We all gotta believe in something.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Mar 14, 2010 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm younger than Hamlin 1.0.

Does that mean I’m a better player? Hell yeah, I need to get in on this.

by Arson55 on Mar 14, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

JINX!!

Haha, now someone has to pinch you

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by accidental innuendo on Mar 14, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ken hamlin has more talent than you

they guy did go to the probowl one year, When people get older they are not as athletic. Shocking I know.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

30 is old for any player

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is pretty ignorant.

Some players actually do not become all pro until they are 30.

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

sorry

as someone pointed out earlier OL hit their prime late, but on average 30 is when players start to seriously regress.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Look at teh all pro team

Both S are 30 or over. Adrian Wilson is 30 and Sharper is 34. Add Ed Reed and Troy P to that list and the best 4 S in football are all at least 28.

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes and it always has been.

The game is too violent to have it any other way. Too many injuries cut way too many careers short.
Teams have too many developemental projects tied to youth. STs require younger with little regard for their bodies. Guys who will sacrifice it all just for a shot.
However athletically your still OK physically barring major injuries.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Mar 15, 2010 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wow

I don’t disagree with you, but there really isn’t a reason to start calling someone ignorant.

Also I’d say the majority of players that become all pro at the age of 30 are pretty slim. IMO

Certainly when the average age for a guy drafted is probably between 21-22. 8 years is along time.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 14, 2010 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I did not call quincyyy ignorant.

I said the idea that 30 is old is ignorant. Very big difference.

by Flounder69 on Mar 15, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'll roll with that.

I still don’t recall a ton of players that become All Pro’s at 30.

James Harrison maybe?

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 15, 2010 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Adrian Wilson is another.

Plenty of OL and QBs. If you look a the All-Pro team pretty much everyone on it is 30 or over.

by Flounder69 on Mar 15, 2010 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah but did they first become All-Pro at the age of 30?

I find that hard to believe that.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 15, 2010 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Case in point...

Wilson was an all pro in 2006 too.

It wasn’t like he JUST became an all pro at the age of 30.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 15, 2010 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

So yeah...

Ummm most people don’t finally reach All Pro status at the age of 30.

Of the entire 2009 All Pro team, including second string only TWO guys took till 30 years old to make an all pro team.

That would be James Harrison and Patrick Crayton(who made it as a second team punt returner funny enough.)

And your entire First Team All Pro offensive line except for Steve Hutchinson is under 30.

So…. yeah.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 15, 2010 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Need to read what I posted again.

I said some players not most, not all, not a lot.

This was Adrian Wilson’s 1rst All-pro. Not Probowl. Probowl is a fan based contest and irrelevant.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d815b8c9a&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

by Flounder69 on Mar 16, 2010 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

From linked article

Fourteen players made All-Pro for the first time: Johnson, Revis, Dumervil, Ratliff, Cribbs, Mangold, Evans, Thomas, Clady, Clark, New England Patriots wide receiver Wes Welker, Philadelphia Eagles fullback Leonard Weaver, San Diego Chargers kicker Nate Kaeding and Arizona Cardinals safety Adrian Wilson.

by Flounder69 on Mar 16, 2010 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are being stubborn

He may become better at some point, but it’s still way too early to tell. I am younger than K. Hamlin too — can I start centerfield in 2010?

Movie Reference

by accidental innuendo on Mar 14, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

You and I are on the same page.

Not saying he won’t be a starter, but there isn’t any justification to say he will be.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 14, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I believe we are witnessing the formative years of a ‘Terry’ :)

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by accidental innuendo on Mar 14, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Haha....

Nah, probably not that bad. I hope not, I’ll have to drink more when reading this if that is the case.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 14, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did you go to the probowl?

Ken has more talent than you and he used to be a better player.

But as people get older they become less athletic. Why is it do I need to explain every simple concept to you people.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because you are oversimplifying the situation.

Just because Mike is younger than Ken does not mean he will ever be the player Ken was. The NFL is littered with college studs that were never even average in the NFL. Add that to the fact he has already suffered a fairly major injury and it adds up to nothing because that is what we know about Mike. When he returned from his injury did he ever make the 45 man game roster?

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

yes

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Mar 14, 2010 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't see it. Which isn't to say it's not possible by any means.

And there are so many people on this site who know much more about prospects and free agents and potential draftees than I do. It’s just that I didn’t notice anything even before the broken wrist.

You could tell Darren Woodson was something special from the get go, even if he didn’t start right away. I would love for somebody to be “the 2nd coming of D-Wood”.

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Mar 14, 2010 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Can someone, anyone, clarify?

Why the Cowboys are in such dire straights to find a safety? I’m no GM but based on the performance of the defense last year I’d have to put safety at or below the need for a top flight DE, Mike backer or Corner at this point. And, certainly the safety position should come as less urgent than interior o-line and tackle.

Seems to me the Defense is set at safety pretty well for the coming year. Did anyone notice repeated failures leading to altered game plans and lost games because of the safety position?

by Jaymanburlington on Mar 14, 2010 8:59 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm a bit perplexed, too, since after the loss to the Vikings, I thought this off-season

would be all about restructuring the O line. I thought it was the offense’s turn after years of using high draft picks on the D. I’m even more perplexed by the folks who keep insisting that the O line only had one bad game. I’m pretty sure those 34 sacks Romo suffered, the highest of his career, didn’t all come in the Vikes game.

by Fernie67 on Mar 14, 2010 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right Fernie,

Actually none of those 34 sacks were given up in the Vikings game. That was the regular season sacks. Romo got sacked 8 more times in 2 playoff games bringing his season total to 42 sacks.

Also, no team gave up more than our 8 sacks and 15 QB hits in the playoffs (Green Bay was second with 5 sacks). We scored 3 points in our loss because almost every play (run or pass) defenders got penetration into the backfield. So they weren’t just bad in the playoffs they were terrible.

by Luke. on Mar 14, 2010 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Viking game was a nightmare. I've often felt for Romo when watching him

run for his life or get killed while his linemen looked on, but never more than in that game.

by Fernie67 on Mar 14, 2010 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here is my stab at the answer

And I don’t think FS is our number 1 priority. (I want a WR and a Guard).

But, while we had a great defense in terms of yardage, we were terrible in generating turnovers. Often the catalyst for turnovers is a playmaking FS that undercuts routes, picks off overthrows, and gives receivers aligator arms when going over the middle. We already have a good pass rush and run defense. Who would make the most difference on this team, another great pass rusher (we have 3 very good ones), another great CB (we are one of the few teams with a solid number 3), or a great FS? I think if you consider this team with a Polamalu, Reed, Dawkins-type, it would be a huge improvement.

by JimmyJohnson on Mar 14, 2010 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly right.

If you think our defense has little room to improve, I think you are sadly mistaken. We were woeful at creating turnovers and failed to help out our offense (which was struggling at times) with short fields.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Mar 14, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

He didnt say their was no room to improve.

He said he thought their were others areas of more concern.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Mar 14, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is a difference of opinion for sure (plus, I wasn't really replying to the original post)

since I only see the O-line as a bigger concern. I would rank my biggest concerns in this order:

1) Restocking O-line depth
2) Fixing the Safety position to generate turnovers
3) Getting an additional playmaker on offense

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Mar 14, 2010 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Would REALLY like to have a defense that generates turnovers. This has been a weak spot for us for a decade now, even in years when we’ve had a strong defense by other measures.

Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.

by Tim Wilson on Mar 14, 2010 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Creating turnovers and preventing big plays.

These are what a S is responsible. Hamlin is awful at both. Seriously 0 INTS and 2 PassDef is unacceptable for an NFL S.

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't ever think Hamlin was aweful.

I don’t remeber a whole lot of big plays being made against Dallas through the air this year, so he must’ve not been aweful.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 14, 2010 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

that part is true

not many big plays, but 1 INT in 2 years is horrible and completely ridiculous

by nicholas.rodriguez on Mar 14, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah I agree

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 14, 2010 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Not only that, but no forced fumbles either, and only 4 passes defended in that same time. The guy can tackle and apparently get the secondary in position.

They can at least bring in some real competition for him.

to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''

by APerfectStar on Mar 14, 2010 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Denver, both Giants games, the first Eagles game.

If not for a terrible drop the 2nd Eagles game. Jenkins and Scandrick saved him a couple of times. Where was he on any of the deep passes in the Vikings game? If he is playing 20 + yards deep he should have been in the screen of at least one off those. Also there were several big runs this year and last year were he missed the tackle. In 08 he almost singlehandedly cost us the Ravens game.

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sensi was the deep guy on one of them and it didnt look like they gave Jenkins any help over the top.

I dont know what was asked of him. I dont think assuming where he should be works.
I imagine half of those big pass plays game against the Giants.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Mar 14, 2010 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is my point.

Everyone acts like Hamlin did nothing but sit in deep zone and that is why he made zero plays, but he was nowhere near either deep touchdown. Yes Sensy was in the first one, but Hamlin was not as deep as either defender.

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

FS is not a hole to be filled

But it is the most glaring position that can be improved upon on defense.

Ken Hamlin is an adequate player, but if the Cowboys can upgrade his position with someone who can get more takeaways then the defense could noticeably improve. Not that they aren’t good already, but a playmaker at FS would put them over the top. IMO, and a lot of other people’s opinion too.

to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''

by APerfectStar on Mar 14, 2010 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hopefully anyone but Ken Hamlin

As long as it’s anyone but Hamlin we would have upgraded that position.

by BigD88 on Mar 14, 2010 9:07 AM CDT reply actions  

The desire to have a playmaker

at safety is something the cowboys have wanted for a long time. If the best value is safety I have no problem. The oline is a major need for improving the running game and protecting Romo. There is going to be oline talent in the early rounds that won’t need too much time to be ready. With the age of the line, the sooner the better. As far as safety is concerned, Thomas, Burnett, Allen would be fine or Wilson, Cook at corner that could play cover safety.

by oldboysfan on Mar 14, 2010 9:42 AM CDT reply actions  

I find QB, Pass rusher, LT, CB, and WR to all rank higher. I think money paid to positions backs this up.

Could be a shift in recent weeks but these are the highest paid positions. Notice there isnt a safety.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Mar 14, 2010 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yet Ed Reed and Troy P are the most important part of their respective Defenses.

S is under appreciated. Also off of your list we do not NEED any one of the 4. Romo is a top 10 QB, Free is a excellent T and I believe will be a very god LT, Jenkins and Newman are a very good combo and Scandrick is good as well. Austin is blossoming into a true #1. We can always use more depth at those spots, but we need a true playmaker S.

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Those are hall of fame players. I could just as easlily bring up Montana, rice, ect...

Im the biggest Free cheerleader on here and I believe he can be good to pretty good at LT however I think he would excell at RT.

How about this. If Hamlin does the exact thin as last year we can win a SB.If our Oline plays the exact same we cant. Based on Flo’s age and Columbos knees and Kosiers lack of ballast, I expect the Oline as a group to play worse.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Mar 14, 2010 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Im with that. Im with a S if top lineman are gone and a value at safety is there.

Im starting to get confused with everyones pet picks.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Mar 14, 2010 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

No problem!

I really think my dream draft right now would be

  1. Iupati
  2. Nate Allen
    3rd round – John Jerry.

I realize it would probably not happen, but I would be ecstatic.

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow...

That would be an absolutely amazing first three rounds.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Mar 14, 2010 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

All other things being equal

We should draft a couple of O-lineman and a safety in the first three rounds only if the right picks are there. One thing I’ve noticed more this year than any in recent memory is that the players associated with the Cowboys in Mocks have been moving up the board. It started with Iupati, and up the board he went. Then it was Earl Thomas, and off he went. In early mocks these guys were projected at around 27, and now they seem unattainable. If that’s the case, someone has to come down. This seems like a very likely scenario this year. What we have to do is wait and see who lands in our lap. Whoever we pick, I’d like to see us get a dynamic playmaker out of the draft this year.

When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.

by White Wolf on Mar 14, 2010 9:50 AM CDT reply actions  

I would love to see Dallas go after Atogwe of the Rams.

The dude is a turnover generating machine and has never played with talent anywhere near our front seven or our corners. He may be 28, but so was Deion when we picked him up. I think Dallas should either try to sign him away or if they are positive the Rams will match, they should send a package of picks that doesn’t include our first round pick (a package with something from this year and a 2011 pick would be ideal).

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Mar 14, 2010 11:04 AM CDT reply actions  

Atogwe would be nice,

but only at the right price. Considering his age and the degree of upgrade over Hamlin (don’t forget Hamlin may not have got many TOs but he was a pretty good cover safety) you don’t want to sell the farm. I actually think this would not be a bad year to give up some of those draft picks – we had a bumper crop of picks last year (albeit few healthy ones) and we have a talented team that few draft picks are going to displace. Now I agree about keeping the first rounder this year, but I would hold on to those 2011 picks at all cost.

by Silverblue on Mar 14, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

NO! Put that crack pipe down, sir!

I actually think this would not be a bad year to give up some of those draft picks

Smart teams build dynasties on the backs of their young’uns. Besides, you are the one that mentioned that Atogwe would be nice at the right price — well, picks fall under the category of compensation.

Movie Reference

by accidental innuendo on Mar 14, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

True, but...

Yes. You build a team through the draft. But we have more needs than 1st day picks:
OT, G/C. NT, FS, WR, DE, not to mention the fact that we will probably pick 1 or 2 guys outside of our needs because they are the best player available. So, where do we fill those needs? Free Agency.

FS is a position where the best players (the potential Ed Reeds and Polamalus) will be gone in the first 15 picks. Noone available after that point will be capable of unseating Hamlin immediately. So it would make sense to grab a Free Agent FS and use our draft picks on players who can contribute now.

by JimmyJohnson on Mar 14, 2010 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

All things equal, I consider Atogwe a considerable upgrade over Hamlin since he actually makes plays and is also capable of being a good cover safety. And yes, I agree I don’t want to sell the farm, but Atogwe is well worth (in my opinion) a package of picks like our second this year and a late round pick next year or something similar. I understand people want to protect picks, but to me Atogwe represents much more of a sure thing and much more of an immediate upgrade than just about any rookie we are going to find in the draft. This would also free us up to narrow our focus in the draft and look to improve in the trenches or on the outside of our offense.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Mar 14, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Atogwe won't cost any picks

He WILL cost a significant salary, but then again, so does Hamlin.

However, he was tendered at right-of-first-refusal…no picks if StL doesn’t match. That being said, I don’t see a contract that won’t be matched by them, unless it’s stupid money.

He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson

by Fighter15 on Mar 14, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

The reason I am saying picks

is if the Rams are dead set on matching his contract.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Mar 14, 2010 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

After June 1st he becomes an UFA

I read that teams are likely going to wait until then to offer a contract, as the Rams won’t have the right of first refusal anymore.

to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''

by APerfectStar on Mar 14, 2010 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do we know how many big plays he gives up.

I was interested in him a year or so ago and still would be. People always tout big plays but not giving up big plays may be a little more important.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Mar 14, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Unrelated to the situation at safety

but since there is discussion here I have to ask: Is anyone else having trouble with the site? It’s nearly unreadable to me..

"The greatest test of courage on earth is to bear defeat without losing heart."

by Benthere on Mar 14, 2010 12:53 PM CDT reply actions  

I was this morning.

It fixed itself once I signed in.

FEED THE BEAST!!!
Twitter Account

by Wmillion on Mar 14, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm just wondering

why it is that Hamlin is getting all of the flack for a lack of turnovers by the secondary? People have been critical of Newman of this fault since he came into the league. Scandrick, Sensabaugh, and Ball were not exactly a house of fire in this area either. Jenkins would seem to be the only guy who can really get a pass in this area.

Considering the scheme the Cowboys play, I don’t think that replacing Hamilton automatically gets more turnovers in the secondary. Hamlin is a pretty good cover safety which is essential in the Cowboys scheme. I just don’t recall seeing that many plays where Hamlin was just screwing everything up (like Roy did for example) and I could just blame him for the lack of interceptions in the secondary.

by jevans1729 on Mar 14, 2010 1:11 PM CDT reply actions  

Some of the flak is by virtue of him playing at safety

Where it is expected that the player can generate a few turnovers. Hamlin doesn’t suck, but it would be nice to add that dimension to our defense.

Movie Reference

by accidental innuendo on Mar 14, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hamlin is an okay cover safety.

I don’t trust him like I do Sensabaugh to be able to cover a WR or a TE one on one. I think the majority of the reason he didn’t give up many deep balls this year was because we game planned against that effectively and put Hamlin in a position to simply double cover team’s deep threats such as Desean Jackson. Plus, Hamlin’s metrics have dropped a good bit from his 2007 year. I think he is a serviceable safety, but I do believe that if this defense wants to get elite, that we have to have a much better ballhawk safety.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Mar 14, 2010 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

An okay cover S does not have 2 passes defended. HE was 203rd in the league at passes defended amonst just DBs.

Hell Alan Ball had more passes defended than Hamlin. Heck Spencer and Brooking had 8 and 7 respectively. Ware had 6, Bradie James 5, and Barbie had 1.( which is awful because he was our 3rd coverage LB.) Still all 4 of the starting LBs had more PDs than Hamlin. Hell Stephen Bowen tied him.

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think

you can look at a single stat as to the guy’s overall performance as a safety. How many big plays did he give up would be interesting to know for example? The guy wasn’t put in very many man coverage situations due to the scheme Wade chose to play. All of the players you named were put in those man coverage situations. Again, I’m not saying the guy is Ed Reed. If the Cowboys could get a safety like that I would be all for it. I’m just saying the lack of turnovers in the secondary should not all be laid at the feet of Hamlin. Passes defensed are not turnovers.

by jevans1729 on Mar 14, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I used a single stat for this point about coverage. Add that to the 0 Ints and it is a pattern.

I do not lay it completely at Hamlins feet, but he is the only member of the Secondary w/out a turnover. It is also his job to play centerfield and that should turn into interception when added to the amount of pressure the DL and OLBs generated.

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep...

I agree totally.

I’m not a big Hamlin fan, but basing it on pass deflections is not really good.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 14, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did you read OCC's breakdown on pass defense

You really need to read that, then maybe you can appreciate the mediocrity of Hamlin.

to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''

by APerfectStar on Mar 14, 2010 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't use pass defenses alone as a measurment of coverage.

Fairly often, good coverage DBs do not get a whole lot of pass defenses because if a quarterback sees a guy covered fairly well, he’ll move further into his progressions and not throw the ball to the guy in question.

Admittedly, it is a bit different for a safety. Hamlin should have more than 2 pass defenses, but at the same time, Hamlin was playing deep safety most of the time. How many long pass completions do you remember giving up last year? We certainly didn’t give up a whole hell of a lot. This leads me to believe that Hamlin’s good at staying deeper than the other team’s deep receivers and eliminating them as options, but not at much of anything else.

That makes him pretty average. The problem is, he’s not being paid to be average, and average can be improved upon. The team can get better at safety, but at the same time, it’s not a disaster if Hamlin sticks around longer.

by Arson55 on Mar 14, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is not just passes defended it is the whole package.

He does not make plays. The lack of long passes is more a function of the pass rush. We gave up a ton of 15-20 yard plays and that should be in his wheel house.

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, don't get me wrong,

I’ll admit that the pass rush is a large part of it, but at the same time, Hamlin deserves to get some of the credit.

And yeah, he should probably have been in on some of those 15-20 yard plays, but on how many of him was he being dragged further down field by a deeper route?

Look, I’m not trying to claim he’s a great or even good player, but the Cowboys have had much, much worse safety play than Hamlin recently. What with bad Roy Williams and the special teamers trying to play safety (Keith Davis/Pat Watkins). I want the position upgraded as much as anyone, but it could be a lot worse.

by Arson55 on Mar 14, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe in our scheme we go out of our way not to take chances and not give up the big play

and by that force the opposing team to run more plays allowing our pass rush to finally get there. Isnt it shown the a 5+ yard sack to be a bigtime drive killer. Isnt this what Wade is all about, the pass rush. No int. is sad but if he is doing what Wade intends him to do and he isnt giving these up and our D giving some yards but low points and low big plays, I would have to say Hamlin is doing what is asked of him.
 I want a ball hawk but lets ease up on our greatest need. Our greatest need is to keep Romo healthy.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Mar 14, 2010 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

wtf..?

its going to be Atogwe ..

why is everyone voting for Hamlin? What a POS.

by AustnIsMySaviour on Mar 14, 2010 3:20 PM CDT reply actions  

It is?

Dallas hasn’t signed Atogwe.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 14, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fancy crystal ball you have

Please explain why Hamlin is a POS.

Movie Reference

by accidental innuendo on Mar 14, 2010 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here is why.

As to all of the people saying Hamlin was not bad should go check out his stats. 104th in tackles by a DB. Tied for 171rst with 0 INTs, and tied for 203rd passes defended after Alan Ball. This guy is red hot garbage!

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

thats the 3rd or 4th time you have sold that stat. Im still not buying.

We gave up few big plays and were second in points allowed.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Mar 14, 2010 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I will sell it a 5th or 6th time as well.

When your team is top ten in sacks and QB pressures, but 26th in Ints that is an issue. Besides Dallas gave up 45 pass plays of 20+ yards for 19th in the NFL. That is not limiting the big play. 19th is not good enough when we are so good at everything else.

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

How many were on Hamlin. Thats the figure Im looking for.

2nd in points allowed trumps your small pair.

How many Passing TDs allowed by team and by Hamlin.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on Mar 14, 2010 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dallas allowed 19 passing TDs. Only 7 rushing.

More than 1 passing TD a game. I do not know how many TDs can be directly laid at Hamlin’s feet, but I can not remember a single time he broke up a deep pass.

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can remember 2

off the top of my head both against Philly late in the season. One was on a deep ball to DeSean Jackson that Jackson interfered with Hamlin on making an interception. The other was when Hamlin was giving Jenkins help over the top and Macklin missed the ball because he was afraid of a hit by Hamlin. Macklin was looking at Hamlin instead of the ball and he had Jenkins beat.

by jevans1729 on Mar 14, 2010 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do you really want alot of tackles by your DB's

I don’t really think that Hamlin is great, but I think those stats are a little misleading.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 14, 2010 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

No I do not want my S to lead my team in tackles, but I do not want my starting S to be 5th behind 3cbs and the other S.

I would be much more forgiving if he was a force against the pass, but he does not do that well either.

by Flounder69 on Mar 14, 2010 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm surprised Hamlin got so many votes

He’s due for a substantial bonus this year, $5 mil I think, which means he’s probably not going to be starting for Dallas. His performance on the field isn’t worth that kind of reward. It will either be a draft pick, a FA or Alan Ball.

I’d really like to see a high pick invested in a FS, personally.

to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''

by APerfectStar on Mar 14, 2010 6:40 PM CDT reply actions  

Are you sure he's due a $5 million bonus?

I think his salary is $5.6 million this year with half of that guaranteed. Apparently "much of the money left on his 6 year $39 million contract is not guaranteed" (DMN). It’ll be interesting to see what happens.

by Luke. on Mar 14, 2010 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure

You’re probably right. His salary is due to increase to $5.6 mil, but since it’s not guaranteed the Cowboys only need to get him of the roster prior to the date at which it becomes guaranteed. That would make sense. They might have to cut him, and then either try to re-sign him for less $ or let him test the market.

to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''

by APerfectStar on Mar 14, 2010 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

From Rotoworld
7/15/2008: Signed a six-year, $37.5 million contract. The deal contains $15 million guaranteed, including a $9 million signing bonus. Another $2 million is available through escalators in 2012 and 2013. 2009: $4.305 million, 2010: $5.596 million, 2011: $5 million, 2012: $6 million, 2013: $7 million, 2014: Free Agent.

to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''

by APerfectStar on Mar 14, 2010 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

The poll asked, "Who WILL start at safety?", not "Who do you Want to start at safety?"

Big difference. I’ll bet many who voted saying Hamlin would still be the starter are not that pleased about it, judging by some of the threads lately.

Jerry’s not going to eat every bad contract he gave out in the last few years. Looks as if many hope that by keeping RW, Jerry is free to cut Ken Hamlin.

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Mar 15, 2010 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kid?

Man he’s a grown man.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 15, 2010 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is FS a more important position than CB?

I have always believed otherwise, but after weeks of speculation and discussion about who we’ll start at FS, I’m beginning to wonder if it’s not more important than CB. At the very least, I have a greater appreciation for it now.

by speedmetal on Mar 15, 2010 12:29 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

It depends on who your CBs are

If Jacques Reeves is your CB, then FS is the least of your concerns.

by JimmyJohnson on Mar 15, 2010 5:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

they didn't run it as much but it wasn't like they never ran the ball.

Or passed to the running backs out of the backfield, DeMarco Murray got pass’s all the time, as did Tech’s batch, Oklahoma State ran the ball but fell behind so fast they couldn’t.

They are a pass happy league but it isn’t as if they never ran the ball or threw to tightends.

He started as a freshman and was playing against Brandon Pettigrew and Jermaine Gresham, possibly two first round TE’s.

OU ran the ball quite a bit in the 2008 season as did Oklahoma State when Kendell Hunter finished as 7th overall rushing in the nation.

This notion that they NEVER run the ball is bogus.

That’d be like me holding it against Eric Berry because most of the QB’s in the SEC suck at passing the ball.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 15, 2010 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually I do hold that against Berry

It is why I do say Thomas is better in coverage than Berry, but Berry is the better overall S because he is much more physical.

by Flounder69 on Mar 16, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Come on immortal!

Seriously no team passes the ball 100% of the time. Come with a legit argument and quit trying to argue semantics. Earl Thomas played deep S for Texas. He was lined up 15 to 20 yards from the LOS on almost every play. When I say no one in the Big 12 runs the ball you know what I mean.

by Flounder69 on Mar 16, 2010 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Legit argument?

So throwing out statistics from seasons that Earl Thomas played isn’t legit?

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 16, 2010 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

What stat?

Nowhere did you list anything., but OUs rushing rank. HOw does that prove anything?

by Flounder69 on Mar 16, 2010 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

It really doesn't prove anything...

kind of like saying that because someone plays in the Big 12 they can’t play against the run.

If that’s the case, than I surely hope that Suh doesn’t get drafted he played in the pass heavy Big 12 for 4 years so… guess he’s a bust waiting to happen.

John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 16, 2010 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree that he would make he defense better.

Personally I think he is the 4th best overall S in this class. Yes Thomas is great in coverage, but I believe he will be a huge liability in the run game. Hamlin is bad enough, but Thomas would be a joke. With us having to play the Giants and Redskins twice a year, we can not have a S that can not tackle bigger RBs.

by Flounder69 on Mar 16, 2010 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ken Hamlin gets 40% of the votes so far

It’s not completey clear to me whether this is because

A) people are resigned to the fact that we won’t get anybody better
B) there is a groundswell of opinion (the moral but silent majority if you will) that believes that Hamlin is actually doing a pretty good job, especially as the ‘field general’ in the backfield who is not getting the credit for the lowscoring defense that he deserves
C) we’re all just hyperventilating and are caught in the mental death trap of the pre-Free Agency / Draft void.

by One.Cool.Customer on Mar 15, 2010 9:24 AM CDT reply actions  

I think he’s a pretty good player, and our D plays well with him, so we aren’t hamstrung if we don’t improve his play. And I doubt an elite safety will fall to Dallas in the 1st, though maybe a good one will in the 2nd.

by AustonianAggie on Mar 15, 2010 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Some coaches felt OK about letting Ball keep the starting job after Hamlin came back from injury

If those reports are true, then it shouldn’t surprise anyone to see a high pick spent on FS, and Ball could be the stop gap at FS until the rookie is ready to take over.

to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''

by APerfectStar on Mar 15, 2010 2:04 PM CDT reply actions  

hamlin

how about this-no matter what hamlin will beat out hamlin for the starting s spot. haha

it's called a satchel and indiana jones wears one.

by maxdout on Mar 15, 2010 2:39 PM CDT reply actions  

Morgan Burnett's pro day numbers
Morgan Burnett’s official numbers included 4.45 in the forty, 3.94 in the short shuttle, 6.87 in the three cone, 11-feet in the broad and 39.5 in the vert.

3.94 short shuttle is fantastic

to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''

by APerfectStar on Mar 15, 2010 2:45 PM CDT reply actions  

pass rush

it seems like on most passing plays when our d line does get pressure or a sack it takes while. like around 4 seconds it seems. that’s plenty of time.

it's called a satchel and indiana jones wears one.

by maxdout on Mar 15, 2010 2:49 PM CDT reply actions  

Nutty Fans

I think MOST of you are NUTTY. NO WAY! The Cowboys go into 2010’s Super Bowl Run with someone else playing Free Safety. NO WAY!

We may very well draft a safety at some point and he’ll take the Roster Spot of Pat Watkins if we do…..but to start some NEW GUY at the position in a Super Bowl run is ABSURD.

Our Safety Play was not bad to start with. You’re all nuts.

And why all of a sudden so many of you have a hard-on for Nate Allen is beyond me. The guy has only 12 passes defended in a 4 year career, I’ll never know.

by hcprez1 on Mar 16, 2010 6:38 AM CDT reply actions  

Funny every stat shows you are wrong.

I agree it would be hard for a rookie to come in and take Hamlin’s spot, but a veteran like Atogwe definitely could.

by Flounder69 on Mar 16, 2010 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pretty simple

Safety is the defensive position that could most easily be improved on by choosing a player like Nate Allen, or Morgan Burnett or Earl Thomas, etc. Ken Hamlin hasn’t contributed much (zero INT & zero FF in 2 seasons) to the pass defense, and his best asset was intimidation by jacking WR’s across the middle. Those hits have been few and far between and are illegal now, with the rule changes of the last few years.
If Dallas has the chance to grab a playmaking safety with better coverage skills early in the draft they should be all over it. Not just for this season, but for the future.

to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''

by APerfectStar on Mar 16, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

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