Cowboys Draft '10: Don't Press Cornerback Off Your Options List
by Rafael Vela on Mar 15, 2010 3:19 PM CDT
80 comments
Follow this bouncing ball:
- 24th
- 13th
- 5th
- 20th
What's this? It the yardage ranking for Dallas' pass defense. That final number offers a puzzle. How did a back seven which had the luxury of Demarcus Ware, Jay Ratliff and Anthony Spencer rushing, a top four rushing defense and good health (2009 was the first year since 2006 when both starting cornerbacks started all 16 games) take such a dip in yardage?
The answers suggest that cornerback should not be pushed from the top tier of Dallas' wish list come April.
Big D Hasn't Meant Durability
Many fans have overlooked the fragile nature of cornerback this spring, because the Cowboys anticipated trio of cornerbacks held together last season. To do so betrays a short-term memory. How often did Anthony Henry break down in a Dallas uniform? How often has Terence Newman wound up on the injured list since his body's clock hit 30?
Quite a bit. Henry signed in 2005 and spent four injury-riddled years in the lineup. He missed six games in both '05 and '07 with an assortment of sprains and pulls. His only 16-for-16 came in '06 and that was only because he soldiered on with loose bodies in a knee that locked up on him during the melt-down month of December, when the Cowboys secondary surrendered 15 touchdown passes.
Mike Jenkins stepped in on the right side and provided an increasingly tough man-to-man coverage. That said, how many of you had a sinking feeling in late August, when Jenkins rolled an ankle late in training camp and had to sit for nearly a month?
Jenkins' quick recovery provided the anchor for a corner unit which stumbled badly into the new season. Orlando Scandrick suffered the dreaded sophomore slump, giving up big plays in the slot on a regular basis through October. He improved a lot in the second half but fell off from the player who looked like he could challenge for a starting spot at the end of his rookie year.
Cornerback is a fickle position in the best of circumstances. K.C. Joyner forwarded me his collected YPA metrics from '04 through '07 and I produced a composite chart which found that very few corners could repeat their top-level metrics from year to year. The players who topped the charts in one season would drop down badly the next and rebound the next season.
The corners who maintained top 15 play every year of the survey could be counted on the fingers of one hand. Terence Newman ranked 2nd overall over that span, partly because he was durable; Newman did not miss a single start from '03 through '06. Then, something the core-area pulls and tears ensued and Newman missed 11 starts in '07 and '08. Newman made it through camp last year but started the season as if he were hurt. The Bucs Michael Clayton and the Giants receivers flambeed Newman in September. Newman kept Brandon Marshall under wraps for 55 minutes but the Broncos wideout burned Newman for the game winner in the waning minutes.
Newman seemed to find a spark at mid-season, after a very public spat with position coach Dave Campo. Newman began to play more physically. He teed up receivers and took penalties for hits which crossed the legal line. He became more aggressive on the corner and finished the season with two masterful performances against the Eagles DeSean Jackson.
The Cowboys loved their corners in December, but can they count on getting a full season from all three in '10, given the yo-yoing which goes on every year, and given Newman's touchy groin muscles?
I doubt it. Quick, name the 4th Cowboys corner. Can you do it? Do you trust him to man one of the edge positions or the slot if one of the top three goes down? Do you think '09 was the anomaly for Newman or were '07 and '08? Will Scandrick take a step forward or has he plateaued?
The Cowboys are not taking cornerback for granted. I understand they are intensely researching this year's deep crop of cornerbacks, and like several of them. They're obviously still looking for tackles and safeties but don't be surprised if you see a cornerback picked in one of the early rounds. The Cowboys can't afford to play secondary whack a mole. All they gain from drafting an Earl Thomas or a Nate Allen could be undone if one of Jenkins, Newman or Scandrick spend any time on the injured list.
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Now that the fight is over...
hopefully someone at Valley Ranch can circulate a memo that free agency has begun
Seriously
I think we would be well served to trade a 10 -15 picks and get a top 3 OT.
BUT ~ if the tackles go unreasonably high (always unreasonable if others want what we want and they get the chance at them before we do) I don’t think we will reach for anyone when there will be decent value on the board.
I like TNew and think he is under rated by most, but quality young talent at a position where one needs 3 or 4 starter level talent to excell in the passing game that is today’s NFL would not be a wasted pick.
So with few exception, I will be happy with best value at #27, if we stay there.
Lupati? Pouncey? I would be estatic, but not upset with another good CB
I think it makes sense to take a CB pretty much every year, for depth this year as well as getting them in the pipeline for the future. I don’t know if they need to spend a high pick on one, but if the value is there for a CB early then it’s certainly worth considering. But finding someone like OScan in the 5th round would be good too.
isn’t Ball our dime corner? he’s great to have for versatility, but he may be expected to play more at S depending on what happens, which would mean even more need at CB. The real question is who is our 5th CB? Marquis Floyd? Cletis Gordon?
Some good prospects at CB
will be around in 4-7, but I have heard that Dallas is open to taking a CB in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd if they think they are getting value at the pick.
Kyle Wilson
Is the only CB I would take in the first round (after Haden of course).
After those two though, this class is VERY deep at CB. Guys like Owusu-Ansah, Devin Mccourty, Chris Cook, Brandon Ghee, AJ Jefferson, and Patrick Robinson can be very good #2 CBs in the NFL and can be had in rounds 2-4.
Just stay away from Perrish Cox. The guy is just a hopeless talent. For all his physical toolss (which I think are a bit overrated anyway), his personally is twice as rotten. I’ve never heard of a player not being allowed to participate at his own pro day because his coaches don’t want him there. Hopefully we’re one of the teams that took him off our board.
I want Pouncey
Mostly because it makes me smile when I say his name. It’s like he’s bouncey, but also could pounce. I don’t know that either of those is something scouts look for in an O-lineman, though….
The CB position is an interesting question. I agree with the supposition that it’s an area of improvement but statistically not an area of strength. Some of that is pass pressure. Dallas seems to get sacks without generating pressure consistently. But some is depth and I’d love it if they can score there, without sacrificing at OL, DE, ILB and Safety….
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
I like all of this.
Especially the part where you talk about us getting sacks without pressure. Our passing yards stats make our pass D look awful, when it’s not necessarily accurate. We had a lot of coverage sacks last year. I think a lot of those yards we gave up came in garbage time situations. We’re going to give up passing yards when we’re up. The reason our pass D numbers look bad is the same reason our run numbers look good.
by Mandmeisterx on Mar 15, 2010 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
"They're obviously still looking for tackles and safeties but don't be surprised if you see a cornerback picked in one of the early rounds"
I guess I wouldn’t be too surprised, but we’ve only got so many picks. I know that the players that end up dropping on draft day will end up determining who we take to a certain extent, but it seems that we have more pressing needs elsewhere.
The model of this era of Cowboys teams has been to assemble elite talent at the starter positions and to skimp a bit on depth because of it (there are a few notable exceptions— RB and TE, for instance), and then to try to stay as healthy as possible during the season and play guys who are hurt when necessary. Going 3 deep with quality CBs is pretty good, even with the injury potential mentioned above.
CB is always a position you could use more depth at, and I don’t think there are more than 5 or 6 teams in the whole league who can legitimately say they couldn’t use one more CB on draft day. But like I said, we’ve only got so many picks, and as I count our needs I quickly find myself without an “early round” pick to spend on CB.
A 4th or 5th round value, though, that could net us another Scandrick? That would be a wonderful surprise.
Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.
Scandrick was a 5th round pick
but he had a 3rd round grade. He fell because of off-field concerns.
You can’t count on that happening all the time.
I've even heard 2nd
Kids still got a lot of upside. Not a cornerback but I wouldn’t mind having Barrett Ruud, but not for a first and third. Haven’t really heard it brought up (maybe for good reason) but thought I’d toss it in there, he’s pretty young and solid
Michael Irvin to Keyshawn Johnson "I know where me and Rice belong on the top ten receivers of all time list, but who do you have in the bottom 8?"
by markdamack on Mar 15, 2010 6:25 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh no, don't tell Terry that Scandrick had off-field concerns, he'll want to ship him to Siberia (or the football equivalent, Siberia)
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
I don't care if a player has off the field concerns
if he is drafted late, taking risks with those kind of picks is fine with me, but first rd picks is a whole different story all together.
Can’t get risky in the first rd.
In Romo we Trust
damn it, that second 'Siberia' was supposed to be Oakland
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
They should be looking at CB
If Ball moves to FS, they only have the starters and nickel covered. Still need at least one more guy, and this draft is deep at the CB position.
Last year, Dallas drafted 2 guys and neither made the roster. I’m expecting at least one CB out of the draft, and maybe 2 depending on FA moves.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
There's not a lot of top CB prospects in the draft this year,
but it does seem that there is some good potential in the back half of the draft.
Alan Ball
What do I win?
And I do not have a short-term memory. I just wasn’t listening to the question in the first place.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
With the spread offenses in the NFL, he can never have enough corners!
The Cowboys have to face the Saints, Packers, Vikings, Colts and a few others next season, who love to spread defenses out with 4 to 5 wide receiver sets. You need to be able to matchup against these high-powered offenses, along with having quality depth at the position, in case of an injury. Nobody would be confident if Scandrick or Ball would have to play alot of snaps next season as a starter. Cornerback is a need in every single draft. Why not find a hybird, who can play either safety or corner, such as a player like Cook from Virginia.
If the Cowboys did draft a corner early
I’d be thinking about what they were discussing last year, which was to move Scandrick to FS. There’s no doubting he hits bigger than his 192 lbs. He could probably play good coverage, as well. I’m not saying I particularly subscribe to the move, but
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
the Cowboys might consider it.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Playing to Win This Year
If the Cowboys were playing to win this year, a veteran cornerback would have been added in free agency. A rookie isn’t going to add much in the short-term; however, veteran players like Bodden and Marlin Jackson could have given the Cowboys four (4) starting caliber cover guys and put them over the proverbial hump.
Corners like Lito Sheppard still remain and hopefully Jerry will turn his full attention from boxing to football.
I disagree
Dallas is playing to win this year, but they are just taking their time to see what happens. I see us adding some secondary help soon. The offseason is stll young
Lito Sheppard....
was horrible last year… HORRIBLE.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 15, 2010 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Bodden and Jackson are strictly zone corners.
We need guys that can play man to man. Lito Sheppard can’t play either.
Here's a good article that explains the Cowboys strategy.
It has nothing to do with throwing in the towel, or cheaping out on signing significant veterans. Perhaps instead of always banging the same old tired drum, Tex, you could benefit from having an original thought for once. Take a look at what was REALLY going on with UFA’s. As it stands now, everyone knows what you think. I’m going out on a limb here and guessing the Cowboys know more about what they’re doing than you do.
Cowboys FA Strategy
Another fantastic article
Both are, er, good reading.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Hmmmmm,
— You gonna pay a starter like Bodden starter money to be your 4th CB? Think he was gonna pass up leaving NE where he was a starter to sit on the bench and play 20 snaps a game in Dallas?
— You gonna give starting money to Jackson who was coming off two knee surgeries to be the 4th corner?
— You gonna give starter money to Sheppard, who is cooked?
Next…
If Sheppard IS cooked
He might be available at discount. He’s gotta know the tank is almost empty.
Movie Reference
by accidental innuendo on Mar 15, 2010 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Plus, I am not even sure Jackson would fit our system well.
He is a much better zone player than he is in man and that is why the Eagles are planning to convert him to safety where he played some in college.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Mar 15, 2010 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
So I dont think a
CB will be picked up in free agency but what about that lil guy Arenas from Bama. Becomes backup corner with 5.5 speed but the cowboys are wanting options at return man also and hes ok. or thurmond from oregon maybe even though he has a bum knee. maybe the knee heals and we get 2nd round talent in my mind at 5 or 6 price? what u think
I would love to draft Javy
He is the best PR in this draft. He is a good nickle corner that can flat out hit. He is awesome on the blitz and in run support.
4th corner? I was honestly stumped.
Then I looked up the nifty little roster we have posted on the front page.
Okay, Alan Ball I recognized and should’ve known (always considered him more of a safety).
The other names scared the living daylights out of me.
by One.Cool.Customer on Mar 15, 2010 7:55 PM CDT reply actions
Without looking
Behind Ball, there is somebody named Cletis. No idea whether he can play well enough to be a 4th or 5th CB.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
by APerfectStar on Mar 15, 2010 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions
You've got Enos and Cooter,
But I don’t remember a Cletis. Don’t remember a Cletis on the Boys roster eithers.
I think Cletis replaced Enos as Roscoe's deputy
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
by APerfectStar on Mar 16, 2010 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
No, but Boss Hog was.
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 17, 2010 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions
"somebody named Cletis"
that, my friend, is a ringing endorsement of Raf’s point :-)
by One.Cool.Customer on Mar 15, 2010 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions
But what happens if Miles Austin gets hurt.
We could get by on defense with two out of three of our top CB’s. Our offense will crumble if Austin misses an extended amount of time. I would consider WR a much more glaring need than CB.
Nooooooooooooooooo!
First, a curse on you for putting the stink-eye on Miles. Your name will be noted.
Second, never underestimate the power of The Ogletree!
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
I think we're all in agremeent
that Ogletree is destined for greatness. He’s going to be Craytons replacement sooner or later. Roy E.‘s spot is the one I’m looking at. That looks like a big hole to me and since receivers take awhile to develop, I think we should find one ASAP.
Your reaction to the Miles Austin stink-eye is further proof we need better depth at wide receiver. It would get real ugly.
Slow down speed racer
I think the jury is still out on Ogletree. He has shown some ability, but he played sporadically and was just a rookie. Let him grow a little in the system. Let’s check back after training camp and see how he is doing.
It's fun to do bad things. -Latarian Milton
by TexasGarcia37 on Mar 15, 2010 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Here are the facts:
1. His name is Ogletree. 2. He’s from Virginia. Put him in Canton.
Ogletree is a slot reciever?
Am I wrong in thinking he is RW’s replacement not Craytons?
Haha
That does seem to be the thought process of some though…
RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.
by aussie_cowboy on Mar 16, 2010 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Touche
It's fun to do bad things. -Latarian Milton
by TexasGarcia37 on Mar 16, 2010 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
The serious point is
just as they “saw something” in Austin before he broke out, they see something in Ogletree. No, he’s not a proven veteran, but I think they feel better about their depth there, as well as at TE and CB than I do about other places like OL, ILB, NT, DE. In the end they have to think more about where they are actually thin than where they might not have an additional Pro Bowler. When you add to this the fact that they use other positions as offensive playmakers (RBs out of the backfield, Witten) they have greater needs elsewhere. They’ll take a WR in the draft or UDFA, but I think as a position of need, it’s in the second tier.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
+1
I’m less concerned about WR depth than OL, DB, DL.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
by APerfectStar on Mar 16, 2010 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Is Miles Austin old?
Is he prone to recurring injuries like Newman?
by Rafael Vela on Mar 16, 2010 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Wasn't last year the first time
Austin completed a season without an injury? He isn’t exactly what I would call injury-adverse.
RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.
by aussie_cowboy on Mar 16, 2010 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions
A 4th CB, a 3rd/4th WR???
I mean, let’s get real.
We have real needs at Safety and OL. We need starters.
Leave the backups for the later rounds.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
rinse,wash,repeat...
A CB isn’t my first choice nor is a WR, but you automatically assume they wouldn’t start?
I think it’s pretty realistic that a CB could come in and fight for a 3rd CB role or that a WR could come in and fight for a WR2 role.
Plus with corners you play the Dime quite often, so I guess by “starter” they don’t start the game, but they do see significant snaps.
I would rather pick a CB that has a first round grade than reach for an offensive lineman or safety.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 15, 2010 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions
+1 Agree 100 per cent
Fighter is right. How can we draft a 3rd or 4th cb when our FS is below par and our OL are all old enough to remember 8 track.
Every team has injuries, do we draft another OLB cause we only have two? What if Ware gets injured? What if Romo gets injured?
I don’t get this line of reasoning. If the team drafts a real FS who is a playmaker and can help cover deep isn’t that better?
Or a OLineman who can keep Romo upright? And give him a pocket to step up into?
And be fair, Brandon Marshall is a Beast. He is gonna get his catches.
Why is everyone so down on Hamlin?
He’s no Ed Reed, but c’mon. The “great safety” debates begin and end with Reed and Polamalu.
Areas of need greater than Safety are…
-Offensive Line
-Corner
-Offensive Line
-Placekicker
-Offensive Line
How is corner a greater need than FS?
We have two – with luck three – above avg corners. Alan Ball is serviceable as the 4th CB. an upgrade at FS seems to be in order. Of course OLine is preferable, but I just don’t get the call for a DB in the first.
How many big plays did we give up last year?
Safety isn’t a great need. We’d all like someone better than Hamlin, but he’s serviceable. Terence Newman sitting on the sideline, otoh, helps noone.
We gave up 45 plays over 20 yards. That was 19th in the NFL!
We gave up 19 passing TDs to only 7 rushing TDs. Those are just the regular season stats. In the post season we gave up 6 passing TDs to 0 rushing!
It goes to the value of the players
if at #27 you have a CB with a first round grade, a OT with a third round grade, a S with a second round grade, and a WR with a second round grade prudent drafting says you take the CB because he has the best value at the pick. I would rather Dallas take the CB with a first round grade rather then reach for a position of need with a second round grade.
It's fun to do bad things. -Latarian Milton
by TexasGarcia37 on Mar 15, 2010 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions
"Fighter is right. How can we draft a 3rd or 4th cb when our FS is below par and our OL are all old enough to remember 8 track."
Because you have to be prepared if your pick comes up and the OTs and Ss are gone.
This is getting silly. Name the OTs who are pretty solid bets to play and play well as rookies at LT. I count two. Okung and Bulaga. Davis is 20 and has holes in his game. Williams is a workout warrior coming off a lousy senior season. Campbell looks like the Mike Malula of OTs.
And every single one of these guys could be gone by pick 13.
At FS, who’s a legit 1st rounder? I like Thomas but he could go as high as 10th to Jacksonville, 11th to Denver or 13th to S.F.
Iuputi and Pouncey could also be gone by pick 20.
So what are you gonna do if these seven OL and the one primo FS are gone? Draft Taylor Mays or force a guy like Ducasse because you just have to have an OL?
That’s how this team would up with Jacob Rogers. There were people in the room advocating for players like Matt Schaub and Jake Grove, but Dallas took Rogers because Parcells felt the Cowboys had to have an OT.
How did that work out?
You pick the best player you can get and if that players is a CB or an ILB or a WR, then that’s what you get.
by Rafael Vela on Mar 16, 2010 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions
He's been railing for a 2nd round safety in the 1st since Mock 4.0
The only way that happens is if we trade our 1st for a high 2nd, and a 1st next year. I’d rather see us pick up a dynamic playmaker. I don’t care where he plays. In this scenario where all of our original preferences have shot up the board, just give me someone who is going to be on the field helping the team win games. Give me one of those players with a true 1st round grade. I have confidence that whether he goes to Garrett or Phillips, he’ll get on the field and help the team. We didn’t have a 1st or 2nd rounder last year, I’m ready for the next great Cowboy.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
No, I've been whining for an OL since '05
But Raf is correct, the ‘Boys need to be prepared for the possibility that everyone is gone…no matter how remote. I simply don’t believe that the 2nd best CB will be there and the G, C, or S position will be completely bereft of talent.
In most years, CBs rise, Safeties fall. I by chance Mock 4.0 would come to pass a CB choice wouldn’t be the worst pick.
I guess my point would be to trade down like ‘07. I don’t see “value” in picking a player in the 1st that will not project to a starting roll in the next 2-3 years, except OL (because they usually take 3-4 years to develop).
As for the question of who might be there that can help win games in ‘10, I’d have to go with Safeties Allen or Burnett…no matter that they have 2nd Round grades. But I do believe that either Brown or Cambell will be available and other than Iupati & Pouncey would be the best selection. All 4 gone? Trade down.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
Sorry for the confusion fighter.
I was referring to Mr. Dot.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
"Whining for an OL since '05"
should be revised to “Whining since 05”.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 16, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
BPA
is ALWAYS the way to go. You’re exactly right. Don’t over-think it and take the BPA regardless of position. If you can trade down to take what you need at the right spot, then fine, else there’s no better way to draft than BPA. Look at Tennessee who took Chris Johnson after spending several high picks in previous drafts on RBs. I don’t think they regret that at all.
Furthermore, regarding the original point of the column, CBs are like starting pitchers, you can never, ever have enough of them. Ever,
Let me try again
I clearly spun myself into butter trying to agree with Fighters premise.
Yes, if there are no options to trade down or fill a need position with value the team should pick who it feels is the best available player.
No, I really don’t think that there will be no option to trade down or to grab a position of need. Rather I hope that isn’t the case, and as we well know hope is not a plan.
Yes Morgan Burnett is my pet cat. I didn’t appreciate Darren Woodson enough when he was active and I would love to see someone with playmaking ability at the safety position.
I agree with Raf
Don’t reach! That’s how you get burned. That’s why I think ILB or DL in round 1. Trust the scouts & follow your board.
Amen brother.
No 2nd rounders in the 1st round. If it’s an LB or a DE, or a CB, as long as he rates out at or above where we draft him I can live with it. If it happens to be Earl Thomas, bonanza!
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Don't forget that what the team considers a first round grade won't necessarily agree with what the mock draft sites say.
I’ve seen great mocks – National Football Post for one – that have my pet cat Burnett above Thomas.
But I readily admit that I haven’t seen any mock with the #2 DB behind the #2 (or greater) Safety.
Gonna be a fun draft for sure, even though its spread out over three days.
The draft isn't about this year.
It’s about two or three years down the line. Wide receiver is a need right now, the Roy E. experiment was a failure. It’s not fair to ask Romo to perform when he’s got a receiver that has no business at all being a starter.
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