Sunday Poll: Mocking the Dallas Cowboys' Mocks at 27
by Aaron Novinger on Mar 7, 2010 2:00 PM CST
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PrintWhen it comes to mocks, certain players seem to be associated with the Cowboys' first round pick. This list has the most popular names.
If by some miracle a bunch of these names were available at 27, who would you most want the Cowboys to choose?
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The value for Earl Thomas
at the point would be too good to pass up. At the same time though I highly doubt he falls like that. I think the more realistic hope would be that one of those offensive linemen fall to us (Pouncey, Iupati, or Campbell).
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
The more I look at the possibilities, the more I prefer we don't trade picks for players and improve
with the draft. We’ve been picking well in the recent past and I trust we will continue to do so…
That's ridiculous.
The DB’s that have come out of Texas are a good lot.
There are a ton of good Texas players that are in the NFL.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
You look at any other big school that produces talent in the NFL...
and you can see a ton of busts and breakouts.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
I hate texas with the best of 'em
but they have so many dudes that make it to the league, they have a proportional amount of busts, as well.
Earl would be a great addition. Not as much as Pouncey, but great nonetheless.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
OU or A&M fan?
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
Haha....
I think next year is going to be a big rebuilding year for them.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
Isn't every year?
It’s damn hard being a ’Pokes fan. Thank God T Boone is getting our facilities up to snuff so that we can get a few recruits.
We a ridiculously good at wrestling and golf, but most people don’t care. Football and Basketball is how you draw prestige as a school, even though we have more national titles than anybody in the Big XII. (and it’s not even close)
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
The main thing...
is football brings in so much money.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know why...
I know that the Big 10 would rather get TX just so they could get a pipeline into Texas.
IMO going to the Big Ten wouldn’t be great for Nebraska.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
they are just tired of getting screwed on the TV deal
this is their only leverage.
The big 10 network is a huge carrot to dangle to potential schools.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
Orange......
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
Power!
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
I have been in Deutchland too long
POWER!!!
Don’t put me on cool probation.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
I think it comes down to Iupati, Thomas, and Campbell
Those would be the highest rated guys.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
I took Campbell off my list, for questions regarding his tape being so much worse than his measurables.
I knocked Mays for the same reason
by AustonianAggie on Mar 7, 2010 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
Campbell didn't get one vote for all conference
not one. That means something to me.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
Did he get 2 or more votes?
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
Had to ask
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
Just look at the tape on Campbell and you will see he is not first round pick....
it would be a horrible pick by Jerry to draft him at #27.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
I voted for Earl Thomas too
the value of an ace safety is just too high.
Mays doesn’t share the value because he’s known as a player who is play-averse.
After that, I’d go for Lupatai, who looks to be a improver of rushing attacks. Incidentally he played in a spread, so the question of whether he actually can improve a rushing attack remains.
Last I would choose Odrick above the rest. He provides a modicrum of pass rush at the DE spot, while being known as an ethusiastic leader, technician, and intelligent
I read he had only the bull rush
is this true? I think I read it on Walter Football, which has as much credibility as Wikipedia.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
haha yeah
Walter football is the same place that was touting Jimmy Clausen as the #1 pick for 2 months.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:11 PM CST up reply actions
I swear the head writer must be a flaming
Notre Dame fan.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
he's a good player in the Big 10, playing DT
4 year starter I think, at Penn State. If all he has is a Bull Rush he’d still be a good DE in the 3-4 though I’m hoping for more
by AustonianAggie on Mar 7, 2010 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
2 yr starter
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
earl thomas
no texas player??? wtf…..
I would choose thomas even he is from florida gators….
before there was law, there were the Cowboys!!!
Yeah the...
“Don’t pick a guy from a certain team” thing is stupid.
If you think they have talent, you draft them, regardless of school.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
But where they play can make it deceiving
It seems like guys who come from bigger schools have more talent around them, therefore covering up their flaws. On the same note, talent is more likely to come from the big school over others. I don’t think you can definitively say either way, you could pose a good argument from both sides.
"I'm hurt dog, don't ask me if I'm alright. Hell na man. Juaqin said Dominate & we not doin' it. I'm puttin' my Heart into this #### dog. LET"S GO MAN!"
-The Ed Reed
Well that's what tape is for and the combine dude.
Scouts don’t look at numbers completely, they take in play by play study.
Where you play doesn’t make you break on the ball faster or take better angles.
The “don’t pick players from certain team” thing is silly in so many different cases. In Pete Carrol’s tenure at USC, he had a ton of different WR’s go in the NFL, but only ONE of them turned out to be good.
Would you want to be the GM that said “Um we passed on Steve Smith because he played under Carroll.” I wouldn’t.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
Easier said than done
If it was just a matter of looking at the tape & combine numbers would there ever be a bust? I can’t buy that
"I'm hurt dog, don't ask me if I'm alright. Hell na man. Juaqin said Dominate & we not doin' it. I'm puttin' my Heart into this #### dog. LET"S GO MAN!"
-The Ed Reed
What are you talking about?
Ummmm people get tape and combine numbers wrong all the time.
There isn’t a perfect evaluation for a player, that’s why good GM’s get paid so much money.
What aren’t you buying?
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
I just don’t feel like you can tell how a guy is going to pan out in the NFL based solely on tape & combine. Derrick Johnson was supposed to be a stud, he’s not even on the chiefs roster anymore(based on ESPN), his college career & combine were really, really good. He’s a bust, therefore tape & combine are not the end all be all for good players
"I'm hurt dog, don't ask me if I'm alright. Hell na man. Juaqin said Dominate & we not doin' it. I'm puttin' my Heart into this #### dog. LET"S GO MAN!"
-The Ed Reed
....ummmm.....
It doesn’t guarantee success. I don’t know what you’re arguing against or for.
It’s still the best way to evaluate someone, even though it isn’t bulletproof.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
"Well that's what tape is for and the combine dude."
sounds like a guarantee for success, I must have misunderstood
"I'm hurt dog, don't ask me if I'm alright. Hell na man. Juaqin said Dominate & we not doin' it. I'm puttin' my Heart into this #### dog. LET"S GO MAN!"
-The Ed Reed
My point wasn't that there is anything that guarantee's success...
but that a team looks at tape, workouts, and alot of combined factors.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:41 PM CST up reply actions
Jarrett & Williams
I think that Dwayne Jarrett & Mike Williams benefited HEAVILY from going to USC when talking about their draft stock. I would like to believe that because they played in USC’s spread offense, on TV all the time, they benefited more at USC over being at UMass. Maybe I’m wrong, but these are just 2 cases where going to a big school benefited these guys. They don’t get the media attention going to a small school. That is all I was trying to say, I understand the scouting process to a small degree, I promise
"I'm hurt dog, don't ask me if I'm alright. Hell na man. Juaqin said Dominate & we not doin' it. I'm puttin' my Heart into this #### dog. LET"S GO MAN!"
-The Ed Reed
They probably benefited...
from having national exposure, but it wasn’t like they weren’t analyzed.
They were just big busts.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
you have to project guys in to your system
Derick Johnson has already had good seasons – but regime changes in KC have been many. He’s got a style he needs to be in to thrive, a tampa-2 for example. To small for 3-4s
by AustonianAggie on Mar 7, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
What would you do if Thomas, Campbell and Iupati are all gone?
The odds are greater that they will be picked before Dallas comes up.
Mays still looks like the second coming of Roy Williams to me and Brown simply looks like a younger, lighter version of Doug Free. Why draft his clone with your 1st rounder if you already have him ready to push both OTs?
I really dig Pouncey.
Think he’d be around?
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
I'd Pounce on Pouncey Too
Given the list, my ranking would be 1. Iupati, 2. Thomas, 3. Pouncey and 4. Campbell. My guess he would be around, but you can never tell.
I Don't See Pouncey Going in Round One
Dallas could trade down a bit and still snag him; Nate Allen might be a different story
Pouncy is not a first round selection....mid 2nd or 3rd round pick
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Disagree.
He looks like a great Center and seems to be rated around where last years Centers Alex Mack and Eric Wood were rated. They went 21st and 28th respectively. He could go late first and won’t make it far into Round 2.
IMO....wouldnt touch him until mid second..he will be there in the second round...count on it
Not everyone can be first round picks. Centers, Guards im waiting until the 2nd and 3rd rounds for.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
You make no sense.
In another post, you were just going sick for Max Unger, but now you think you wait until the third round for a center.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 7:22 PM CST up reply actions
I never wanted Unger.....
Apparently it was Jerry’s plan to draft Unger and replace Gurode with him. Im not a fan of drafting Guards or Centers in the early rounds
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
But you were praising him for being an...
All pro center… why wouldn’t you draft a guy in the first if you think he could be an all pro?
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 9:10 PM CST up reply actions
2nd round 49th pick is alot different than 1st round 27th pick you think?
Unger is pretty good in his short time in the league. I think if anything it says you dont need to use a first round pick to get a quality lineman, especially a Center or Guard where they are tradionally selected later.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
I agree...
but IMO if you think that a guy has elite starting ability… pick him.
There isn’t a written rule about not taking interior lineman in the first round.
Alan Faneca and Steve Hutchinson are both great examples of that.
Alan Fanaca was picked #26 overall the year he was picked.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 10:04 PM CST up reply actions
So Who's Your Guy?
From what I’ve read, I don’t think Pouncey will last to the end of the second round. But let’s just say for the sake of argument he does. Who do you think we should take?
Honestly, I think were trading down into the 2nd round
I hope not, but giving the way Jerry likes to trade down I wouldn’t be surprised. I would like to see us draft Golden Tate. He would give us immediate returns as a PR and a WR. Chris Mortenson just said recently we will be looking for a slot WR in the draft so it’s not unrealistic to think we go WR at 27. Shipley or McCluster are other possibilties later on.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
We're Definitely on Difference Wavelengths
No way I want to spend pick 27 on Tate. The bust rate for wide receivers is just too high, when I can get solid and safe value at other positions.
Jordan Shipley is a fifth round talent to me. He’s too slow, too small and will turn 26 before the end of next season. McCluster is more interesting. I would consider going after him if he came up in the third round, but probably not before.
I personally think kick returners are vastly overvalued. Josh Cribbs is the best returner in the league, and his team sucks. The Saints had mediocre returners (4.6 avg on punts, 24.4 on kickoffs) and they won the Super Bowl. Returners are marginal value on a roster, in the scheme of things.
If those 3 were gone
Pouncey, Nate Allen, Odrick
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
there's guys like Golden Tate that could add an exciting element to an offense
seems like the bottom of the draft, teams often end up picking solid producers from big schools in major conferences. Odrick or that Texas DE
If we were to look at the 27th pick and say, who would we of been exstatic to pick at the top of the 2nd round, and disarm the desire for a star, players like Nate Allen and Golden Tate seem good.
I’ve got a new theory on this draft – that it’s terrible. It’s top end talent that makes a draft deep. Solid contributors (ie 2nd rounders) dwell in anonymity. It takes 5 qbs to make a draft deep, for top end players to wind up at pick 27. Why else do all the players who look to be taken before Dallas’ pick seem more desirable?
by AustonianAggie on Mar 7, 2010 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
that said – that this draft is terrible – there are still an average number of NFL players in this draft
by AustonianAggie on Mar 7, 2010 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
Where did this 5 QB number come from?
Last year had 3 QB’s taken in the first and I think last year wasn’t a great draft.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
arbitrary refrence to ’85 – but thats the deal; a deep draft is initiated by top end talent. That is lacking this year. Big questions at QB, RB non existant.
2nd teir talent goes off the board earlier. What should be the healthy middle of this draft, middle rounds, start getting picked over earlier. 7th round picks will be charity cases
by AustonianAggie on Mar 7, 2010 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think this draft is terrible.
I don’t think it’s the bee’s knees, but I don’t think it’s terrible.
It’s probably going to have alot of quality players, maybe just not all superstars.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
Scoops Callahan
Is that you?
It's fun to do bad things. -Latarian Milton
by TexasGarcia37 on Mar 7, 2010 8:15 PM CST up reply actions
Not a lot of super star picks at the top
But it looks pretty deep, especially at DL and CB.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
That Texas DE
is Kindle and he’ll be an OLB in a 3-4 defense.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
there's also a DT from Texas I like
with Day 1 type measurables
by AustonianAggie on Mar 7, 2010 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
Houston?
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
yeah
I think he’s cut in the mold of a tampa-2 DT, a big guy who can get a pass rush in the middle. I think he could be a DE for Dallas
by AustonianAggie on Mar 7, 2010 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah...
He probably would. He isn’t a mauler, but he has a ton of acceleration for a big guy.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
How's he going to get the ball
with Romo on his back.
Somebody has to block for him
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
there's only a handful of teams that blow up
Dallas’s offensive line. Free will be an OT, Brewster a new Guard
by AustonianAggie on Mar 7, 2010 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
sounds about right
I just think that Pouncey is the player listed that gives us the best chance of beating a team with a good D line in the playoffs.
I think he can start and be a difference maker this year.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
Saints didn't
"I'm hurt dog, don't ask me if I'm alright. Hell na man. Juaqin said Dominate & we not doin' it. I'm puttin' my Heart into this #### dog. LET"S GO MAN!"
-The Ed Reed
uhh
they got 3 sacks on us
and the other team in the NFCCG killed us with a four man rush.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
GB and Minn benefited greatly from Home Field. They got to key in our offensive snapping. Especially in Minn’s case. They have antiques on their D Line. They benefited greatly from a bye week.
Dallas could use an o-line that can still win in that enviroment, but that is asking a lot
by AustonianAggie on Mar 7, 2010 3:16 PM CST up reply actions
it's not asking a lot
to turnover the line with two new guys is not that difficult.
Pouncey gives us this ability. He can step in at LG and not get thrown around like a rag doll. Put Free in the mix and there is the new 2 guys and a much more effective line.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
for next season they don't necessarily have to replace anyone on the oline
I know we remember the last game and think it needs to be addressed, but the online played pretty damn well most of the season, and with Flo’s injury it was Free who was in vs. the Vikes when things really started to go south (altho a lot of the busted protections were not his fault).
Our line is aging, but even Flo and Kosier still have probably one good year left in them. And the importance of oline continuity can’t be overrated. And the biggest issue for the oline is really the depth.
At LT, at this point I think the Cowboys like having the depth of 3 capable OTs, and if they feel like Flo can go one more, they’re not going to be in a rush to get rid of him and lose that depth (and he’s not going to back up Free).
And the same at LG. Pouncey or Iupati could be capable of starting in multiple interior positions, but the Cowboys might like to have the depth, keep the continuity with Kosier and give a rookie a season before sticking them in to the lineup.
Then you’ve got continuity, you’ve got solid backups at both interior and outside positions in case you do need to replace one of the old guys which gives you security in a playoff run, and you set yourself up for Free and Pouncey to take over the following year with a little more experience under their belts.
It's not just one game.
The Tackles have played bad in all three of the last Playoff losses and thrown in a few regular season stinkers too (Green Bay, Arizona etc).
The Oline troubles were well and truly underway before Free hit the field. Colombo had already given up 2 drive ending sacks to Edwards and let him ruin at least another 2 or 3 plays before Flow was hurt. In the second half things continued to get worse because we were behind and the Vikings strong 4 man rush was just playing the pass every down.
I’m not sure exactly what you mean by "oline continuity can’t be overrated" but I think continuity is overrated by many on here. If someone is a better player they should play. There seems to be an idea that floats around here that leaving a less talented blocker on the field while a more talented one sits on the bench is a good idea for the sake of continuity. I can’t agree with that premise at all. You put your best blockers you can get on the field and let them develop their own chemistry.
I don't disagree with that
The line did have trouble at times, although we didn’t put up a franchise record season offensively without them playing pretty well a lot of the time.
and by continuity, i mean communication. oline is only as good as it is well coordinated and working together, regardless of the physical talent of each of the players. while it’s certainly possible that a rookie could come in and handle this side of the game and mesh with the rest of the line relatively quickly, there is still a lot be said for an oline that has worked together mostly the same over several years, and developed subtle communication so they all know what the others are doing. just because another player has is a technically more talented blocker doesn’t necessarily mean he is better at playing the position right off as a rookie.
All I’m basically saying is if they draft Pouncey or Iupati in the first round, that doesn’t necessarily mean he has to start right away, realistically there will competition in training camp and if a rookie can show he deserves to start, then by all means get the best player on the field. But I don’t think we can assume it would automatically be his job. and the Cowboys may like having more solid depth on the line that has been missing if they can get a good one in the draft. so one question is would Kosier stay as backup to a rookie? Because I know Flo isn’t staying here as a backup to Free.
Hey Scottmaui,
I do understand what your saying about continuity. And you’re right communication is important. But new guys fill in on Olines all the time and transition smoothly. Doug Free did this year at RT for us. We didn’t miss a beat when he took over RT (or at worst it took him one game to settle in). I think the OLine played it’s best stretch of the year with the new guy Free. Good players will transition quickly with a minimum of communication breakdowns.
Our veterans, including Flow, Davis and Gurode, who are all Pro Bowlers and have played and started together for a few years now, continually year after year are the most mistake prone players on our Offense (blown assignments, penalties). Not to say they’re bad players, Gurode in particular is a good player, but mental mistakes and communication breakdowns aren’t things of the past for these veterans who certainly have had as much continuity as any Oline in the league the last 3 years.
I don’t think Olineman should be pulled in and out of games like RB’s. Obviously that’s a recipe for trouble. But I don’t think making substantial changes in the offseason (bringing in more talented players and having them win the job) hurts the team in any way but instead makes it much better.
Like you said, I’m all for competition here too. Let’s Draft or Trade for some good Oline talent and let them sort it out in camp.
agreed
altho Free had the benefit of working behind the veterans for several years and learning the line calls and developing some chemistry, which is basically what I’m saying a rookie could benefit from instead of being thrown into the starting lineup right away. We have that option rather than being force to start them immediately if they’re not ready.
"Mays still looks like the second coming of Roy Williams"
is that good or bad?
considering RW went to five pro bowls, and Mays would be a bigger faster version, wouldn’t that be a good result for the 27th pick
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Mar 7, 2010 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
hypothetical...
We are up by 6 with 1 minute to go. DeSean Jackson goes in motion and releases upfield with no jam and is running a step ahead of Newman with only TAYLOR MAYS to take a good angle and knock the ball down. How would you feel about that?
Here’s how I feel:
If the moon was made of chees, would you eat it? I know I would.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
Haha...
“They call me whiskers.”
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:36 PM CST up reply actions
It's a simple yes or no question
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
Jackson will get all alligator armed
He’s played against Mays before.
What's your favorite planet?
MINE’S THE SUN.
love the Will Ferell quote HudBaby
That skit was so funny I literally pissed myself watching it.
In Romo we Trust
I'd say 2 of them were deserving.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
Roy Williams' pro bowls
Can be taken as seriously as Derek Jeter’s gold gloves. Or Iran’s “elections”.
You tell me
The Giants targeted him every time they played him. They would split Jeremy Shockey wide and play box out. Or they would go play action on 1st down and isolate him on Amani Toomer.
The Redskins got him Remember those two TDs in the last two minutes in ’05?
The Seahawks won their playoff game against us going right at him. Every ’Hawks TD went right over him.
You want another huge S with stiff hips who can’t turn and cover? I’ve had my fill.
Hpefully Tate is there and we wont have to worry about it Raf.. :)
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
The man love for Tate is ridiculous.
But I do like the guy.
I think there is a chance that he’s there, but I don’t know if Dallas picks him. I think alot of teams fear that he might just be a #2 WR.
Which is fine with me, because that’s what Dallas needs.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 7:20 PM CST up reply actions
and you thought I just liked OSU players.. :)
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Haha
well played.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 9:10 PM CST up reply actions
The realistic scenario is not as much fun
I would prefer to trade down to the top of the second if a partner can be found, otherwise Pouncy seems the best option
Between Iupati and Earl Thomas
I’d rather have Iupati, am I nuts?
by Cowboysaficionado on Mar 7, 2010 3:02 PM CST reply actions
Probably.
I think the chance at a playmaking safety is better than a guy that is a guard.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
No
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. A lot of people feel Iupati can be an All-Pro OG early in his career.
I wouldn’t mind either of them, but it does seem like Thomas could be the ballhawking FS Dallas has lacked for so long.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
OLine is a much bigger concern than safety
We have mediocre safeties-well, you can’t have Pro Bowlers everywhere-The #1 need on this team is OL, and the last game against Minn. made that clear-
Age is a factor there as well talent.
Hopefully JJ moves UP in the draft and secures an OL guy w/ a 1st round grade.
If he trades down or out this year I’ll scream!
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
by Realist Larry on Mar 7, 2010 4:33 PM CST up reply actions
yes, because Lupati is a Guard and Im not spending first round money on a guard...
He is good, but not good enough for me to be spending first round money on…..I would go with Thomas. More of a priorty there IMO…
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
You wouldn't spend pick 27th money on a Guard?
Leonard Davis’ 2007 contract was 7 years and $50 million.
Duane Brown 2008 OT selected #26 contract was 5 years $9 million.
27th money is a bargain for a good Guard.
Davis was a proven NFL player...Lupati is unproven...
Little fact for you..There are only 6 guards drafted in the first round over last 10 years. Good reason, because you can draft quality Guards in the later rounds. I’m a firm believer that the OT’s make the guards who they are. Lupati is not as solid as some think. I saw the Senior Bowl and he wasn’t too impressive. I really dont see the hype for this player.
Use the first round picks on the skilled impact players like WR, QB, LT, DE, DT….
If I cant get my guy Tate, then the next position should be safety. Hopefully, Thomas is still on the board.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
I never debated that we should draft Iupati.
I’m not that sold on him either.
The only statement I was debating was your anti-27th money for a Guard. Little fact for you; If you look current Guard contracts 27th money is a pittance. If the Cowboys brass think Iupati or more likely Pouncey are 1st round players and they’re available they’ll draft one no sweat and won’t worry about the comparatively tiny salary.
And I think we should just use the First Round pick on the best player we can get who helps our team. If it’s a Guard or Center so be it. I’d rather do that than reach for a skill position player simply because I only want to draft "skilled impact players" with my First.
"You can draft quality Guards in the later rounds" – This line always makes me laugh. That gets said by dozens of people every year about every position in the draft.
yeah the money isnt that big of a deal when were drafting that low...
Its essentially a high 2nd round pick where we are. I’m just not sold that Lupati, Pouncey, Campbell, especially Campbell are first round picks…If it came down to Lupati or Tate im all over Tate because I think we can find a quality guard in the second round, especailly this year. I think the lineman we draft will be a depth player and will not see the field for some time anyway.
Draft Tate and his makes an immediate impact for this team right away. On special teams as a PR and a WR. He could easily push Ogletree for the #4 spot and Crayton for the #3 postion his first season.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Yeah, I also like some of the later Guards.
But I really like Pouncey and he can play Center or Guard and be very good I think. Not that sold on Tate. Plus I think we have some real good skill position players already. To me what seems to be continuously holding the offense back is the Oline. I’d like to see some real changes and competition in that area.
If I had my choice
it would still be Pouncey. Just can’t believe lupati and Thomas will still be on the board. If they were lupati first then Thomas and Poncey. If we get Thomas in the first then look at JD Walton c later.
And Allow Us to Dump
Proctor and Holland and maybe Preston. This would allow us to go deeper at other positions.
I voted Campbell ... if he's there at 27 though the guy I want is Everson Griffen
With Dallas running a one-gap 3-4 and mixing in zone blitzes, Griffen would be an incredibly valuable player. Griffen is a valuable player just due to his pass rush ability. When you add in his ability to hold the POA and drop into coverage as a DE he’s even more attractive.
Of course for those reasons he’ll likely be gone at 27.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Mar 7, 2010 3:27 PM CST reply actions
I think at 27 Campbell is worth the risk.
I find that Griffen pick interesting, I haven’t seen one mock that has him in the first.
Not saying he won’t go, just a name I haven’t seen him that much.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
Kiper has Griffen going 14th
Mcshay has Griffen as the 24th best player but not being drafted in the 1st round. That’s why I’m wondering whether he’ll be around at 27.
I think he’ll be move up in the mocks and I’ll be suprised if he isn’t drafted before Dallas picks. He’s a talented pass rushing DE who fits most of the schemes being run in the NFL. And he ran a 4.66 40 at 272lbs which is crazy. If he doesn’t work at DE he could be a revolutionary FB in the NFL.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Mar 7, 2010 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
Hmmm interesting.
Is he big enough to be a DE in a 3-4?
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
6'3, 280 lbs
"I'm hurt dog, don't ask me if I'm alright. Hell na man. Juaqin said Dominate & we not doin' it. I'm puttin' my Heart into this #### dog. LET"S GO MAN!"
-The Ed Reed
He's listed at 272, Bruce Smith was 265
He was tops for DE with 32 reps on the bench press. I’m not certain, Dallas management has to figure that out, but my guess is that he strong enough to handle the DE responsibilities in Wade’s scheme.
Wade runs a one-gap 3-4 and uses faster smaller players with a premium put on the pass rush.
Parcells used a two-gap 3-4 where you need huge DL who line head up on their man are expected to control 2 gaps all game long. Since the DL are responsible for 2-gaps you need monsters who can withstand double teams all game long.
Wade doesn’t ask his DL to do that. Instead, they shade their man, play one gap, and try and beat him off the snap.
Spears was drafted to be a two-gap DE and is kinda a square peg in a round hole for Wade’s scheme. That’s part of why my educated guess is that Dallas is looking at personal that fits Wade’s scheme.
Does that make sense?
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Mar 7, 2010 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
Makes perfect sense.
I knew who Griffen was, just thought he was being looked at as more of a protypical 4-3 End.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
makes sense... but
Spears is listed as very close to the same height and weight as Hatcher and Bowen, all between 6’4-6’6 and 305-309 lbs, so at ~35 lbs off that, Griffen’s not Wade’s current DE prototype.
funny thing is(off topic)
But everyone was convinced peppers would play OLB in a 34 it is more sane for a 285 lb man to play 34 DE thana 285lb man play OLB, dware and spence are lik 255-260 that’s a 25 pound difference, spears what 300?
That’s a 15 lb difference, why is that insane? Secondly, he would have fit the justin tuck mold as an athletic quick interior rusher.
So I say give the guy a try.
by TONYINCC on Mar 7, 2010 6:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
We all got to still keep that Minnesota game in mind, regarding our 1st round pick!
Our OL got completed embrassed, to the tune of 6 sacks. Yes, it would be nice to finally find that ball hawking safety, another pressure player or perhaps a true homerun threat WR, but the OL is the team’s biggest priority. We need to ask ourselves, who matchups up well agsinst Kevin Williams at Guard, who can deal with Jared Allen, who picks up those defensive line stunts and zone blitzes? Let’s also keep in mind that the Giant DL will be coming back healthy next season, as well. Forget about all the other areas of need, outside of the OL. We need impact lineman who can play right away, most likely within the interior, give me Iupati or Pouncey in April!
Excatly
Last I remember, our D did OK last year, right?
Even Ball did OK as the backup, and one guy had a cast on almost all year.
It’d be nice to get someone there, but compared to OL, it’s not a concern, especially when you factor in age.
Of course, there’s still trades and FA to play out before the draft, too.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
by Realist Larry on Mar 7, 2010 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
whoa
that’s “exactly”
Man….
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
by Realist Larry on Mar 7, 2010 7:51 PM CST up reply actions
That was a tough question.
I had to go with Earl Thomas. I had to sit here and think about it really hard for a minute though. If they picked either Iupati or Thomas here I don’t think I could be too upset about it.
Ready for some baseball.
I would love Iupati, but...
I think that I would pick Earl Thomas if I had either to pick from. The main reason is that I think there are some pretty good guards left to pick from behind Iupati.
I would also like Pouncey but is he really going to beat out Gurode? I don’t want our first rounder sitting on the bench and C is Gurode’s best spot.
Later on in the draft, I would really love to have Newhouse on the team. Robert Newhouse was one of my all-time favorite Cowboys and I just have a good feeling about the younger Newhouse. He can probably be had in the 3rd or 4th.
Tex 4 Colt
And sign Jamal Williams already. If Ratliff misses any time, the Cowboys have no contingency at defensive tackle. Williams would allow Ratliff to slide out to end at times.
by Montecito Tex on Mar 7, 2010 4:51 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Colt McCoy
isn’t going until the second round, drafting him in the first round is…
A) Not necessary.
B) Overdrafting completely for a guy with a second round maybe a third round grade.
oh and…
There is no reason to sign Jamal Williams right now. Wait and see how many teams he draws interest from. I’m not sure that he’s not a medical liability these days.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 5:05 PM CST up reply actions
I like Jamal WIlliams for an emergency start but he’s not better as a back up
by AustonianAggie on Mar 7, 2010 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
Jamal Williams...
3 Pro Bowls (2005, 2006, 2007).
2 times All-Pro (2005, 2006).
But he’s not better than Junior Siavii?
Wow.
he's better for a start
but he’d probably not actually produce more than Siavi in limited reps
by AustonianAggie on Mar 7, 2010 6:35 PM CST up reply actions
give the dude credit
You are comparing a guy that was on the streets one year ago, to a former ALL PRO, whether you like him dislike him, to have someone like that for backup security is a luxery we have not had since ferguson, and glover.
by TONYINCC on Mar 7, 2010 6:51 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think he easily out produces Siavi without question...
Siavi was a non-factor. If you remember we saw less and less of him the last part of the season. Im thinking they weren’t happy with his production the reason for his decreased playing time.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Exactly.
Ratliff played more snaps last year then he ever has before. They would barely take him off the field in any game that counted, or in any important situation because the dropoff between Rat and Junior is very, very large.
I'm all for signing Williams...
if he’s healthy.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 7:17 PM CST up reply actions
+1
the only ? is health, stat wise we wouldn’t see much from him, that isn’t what he does, he clogs the middle, and if he can spell Rat on a few early downs here and there for Rat to be in on 3rd down, our line WILL get more sacks. And while he is in there, only playing 20-30 plays a game will be perfect for him to hold up and be a force while he is in there
by nicholas.rodriguez on Mar 7, 2010 9:53 PM CST up reply actions
Tex will pitch in some coin...
If a team gives up a pick for journeyman Gerald Sensabaugh
by Montecito Tex on Mar 7, 2010 4:53 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Journeyman?
Oh, like Drew Henson.
Tex, please just go gently into that good night.
I find it hard to believe that Thomas AND Iupati would be available at 27
But those would be my top two. And it’s a tough choice between them, but I had to go with Iupati because the OL is the foundation for perennial contenders. If the QB stays upright, you get to use all those fancy weapons you’re paying for on the offensive side of the ball.
But yeah…tough, tough choice.
Movie Reference
by accidental innuendo on Mar 7, 2010 5:07 PM CST reply actions
I think Iupati...
would be more likely, interior lineman fall.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 5:08 PM CST up reply actions
Me too
It’ll make the decision easier, but either one would be an absolute steal at 27.
Movie Reference
by accidental innuendo on Mar 7, 2010 5:09 PM CST up reply actions
In the bigger scheme of things that would make Iupati
part of the Roy E. Williams reclamation project.
After the success of the Romo Friendly Offense, we’re moving to version 2.0, the Roy Friendly Offense.
by One.Cool.Customer on Mar 7, 2010 5:13 PM CST up reply actions
Looks like the Niners may get Gaither from what PFT is saying
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
I'd like to see us strongly check into Gaither.
PFT is now saying that the 49ers and Gaither rumor is premature.
thomas would make our defense elite
I see him having Ed Reed, Bob Sanders, Troy Polamala type of playmaking talent at the next level
In Romo we Trust
Internet vs. Scout Mocks
I wonder if the scouts pay any attention to internet mocks. If, as Raf says, the teams run through as many permutations as they can think of, it would be wise to look to the crowd wisdom of the internet to present hundreds of different scenarios.
I imagine the teams probably look at them
and then promptly ignore them. Taking a look at what these other people have to say won’t cost a team anything at all, but they’ll have little or no impact on the decision making.
Just thinking...
The fans, as a group, consume more information than any small group of people is capable of consuming. That’s why individuals and groups (no matter how smart) can’t beat the stock market as a whole.
That said, even if the experts are better, the variation of hundreds of mocks based on knowledgeable fans’ perception of their needs should be informative. A Bengals scout doesn’t know the Cowboys’ needs as well as a well informed Cowboys fan.
definitely Thomas over Iupati
Thomas is an instinctive playmaker in the passing game which is just what this defense needs, no way he is there, but it would be nice. Iupati should be hungry ‘cause the defensive line at his lunch at the seniorbowl. So, i’m definitely leery of him in the first round. Now, they say he practiced really well, but it’s hard to look past his seniorbowl performance.
i want pouncey
And one of the safeties in the second round, if pouncey and thomas are there, I want thomas, then try to trade back in to get pouncey. Those 2 additions alone, will make us better next year, and exponentially better for years to come.
by TONYINCC on Mar 7, 2010 6:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I agree 100%
If ET is there, you have to go w/ him, he is a great talent, but if not, Iupati will also most likely be gone, I would try to move to the final few picks in the 1st and grab Pouncey, it will net us another pick as well as getting the guy we wanted all along, kinda what they did when they drafted Spencer
by nicholas.rodriguez on Mar 7, 2010 9:57 PM CST up reply actions
Lupati struggled with the false starts and was pushed around pretty good. Not what you want to see from a projected first round guard..
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
In terms of OL, let me pose y'all a question
How big of a gulf is there between Iupati and Pouncey?
Movie Reference
by accidental innuendo on Mar 7, 2010 7:13 PM CST reply actions
I am not a draft expert
But I think Pounceys ability to be center provides much better value, in he could unseat Gurode in a couple years.
by TONYINCC on Mar 7, 2010 7:16 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
That's kind of where I am.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 7:19 PM CST up reply actions
Not much.
It seems to me that Iupati is probably regarded as having the higher ceiling with the potential to play Tackle. Pouncey seems to be regarded as a unanimous top Center who could play Guard too.
Iupati looks like more of a project and needs work on technique but has great physical skills for the inside and maybe at RT.
Pouncey looks much more like a sure thing with very good size, very good technique, very quick snap and he made all the line calls.
I’d prefer Pouncey. He could challenge Kosier immediately for LG and at worst provide quality backup depth at Center or Guard his rookie year.
Personally I think he’d win LG this year and then give us great flexibility when Gurode’s contract expires after the 2012 season (or gives us a cheaper option in 2012 if necessary).
Same here.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 7:54 PM CST up reply actions
Great analysis
I feel the same about them, but I prefer Pouncey just for his ability to finally give Proctor his walking papers
by nicholas.rodriguez on Mar 7, 2010 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
Bengals reportedly
Interested in Marshall, NFLN was reporting that the broncos are not entertaining trade talks for marshall. I think they are bs-ing.
by TONYINCC on Mar 7, 2010 7:14 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I Think Dallas should get otagwe and ray edwards and trade marcus spears and ken hamlin for some pics and then pic up golden tate in the draft.
wish hamlin had any
Value but I doubt it, if anything I would give him to teams likely to Draft a safety, to minimize that probability.
by TONYINCC on Mar 7, 2010 7:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah but y not get a good safety like otagwe or een bethea from the colts man just think how much better we would be nwxt year with a saftey that we know is going to be a good one. Ray Edwards is one of the best DE he proved that last year against us in th playoff game just hink him ware and spencer and ratliff all rushing the QB theyd be unstoppable.
what is ray edwards size?
And believe me I have been begging for atogwe for a few days now. I really want him, and to be quite honest I would take one of the jones, burnett, allen safeties too in the second.
I WANT ATOGWE, I can’t get anything else on him besides 24 turnovers in 28 games, but to be honest that a good enough piece of info for me.
by TONYINCC on Mar 7, 2010 8:16 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ray Edwards is 6'4 273lbs
yeah ive like atogwe but id take bethea to but they want to much for him we could get atogwe cheap
i think that is
Too small for DE, he needs to put on like 20-30 pounds. Yeah Atogwe would be much cheaper, I don’t know Atogwes metrics when compared to Atogwe.
by TONYINCC on Mar 7, 2010 9:17 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Who are all the folks voting for Taylor Mays?
I’d take Nate Allen or Morgan Burnett before I took that guy.
What is your take on Golden Tate?
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
107 people for Mays....thats insane.
I guess those 107 have Alzheimers….didnt we suffer enough with Roy “thong” Williams
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
its up even higher now....
disgusting
by nicholas.rodriguez on Mar 7, 2010 10:44 PM CST up reply actions
I will say this...
I have never seen so many mock drafts that are all over the place.
I think that this should be one of the more entertaining drafts.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 7, 2010 10:44 PM CST reply actions
My grandmas all over the place
But she’s not that entertaining
Squish.
by Squishmytomato on Mar 8, 2010 1:04 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I can't believe that Taylor Mays has almost three times as many votes
as Maurkice Pouncey.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Mays has seven times as many votes as the guy I voted for.
But given that I don’t feel that strongly about any of the tackles, I’m not that interested in a first round safety, I don’t want an interior lineman in the first, and there was no trade back into the second round and pick up a safety there option, my options were pretty limited. It was either Tate the linebacker or the defensive end. I’m fine with the d-line as constructed and am not that sold on Tate, so it came down to Weatherspoon by default. And even on that choice I’m iffy.
Really, I’m hoping our first round pick is gone to grab Gaither, someone really unexpected falls into our lap, or they move down and pick up an extra pick or two. No one I’ve seen going to us in any of these mocks screams ‘pick me!’ Well, a couple of the corners that show up in some of the mocks—can never have too many good corners, but otherwise…meh.
Surprised
I’d be surprised if we had a first round grade on Campbell (although stranger things have happened), and Brown seems like a stretch as a fit on our line, unless we’re trying to change its makeup.
I’d be really surprised if we have Iupati rated ahead of Weatherspoon or Thomas. If we’ve been hesitant about drafting tackles in the first in the past, it’s difficult to think that we’d go guard, even if it does make sense.
Hilariously, one of the more effective guards in the league last season (Rob Sims) can be had for a contract and a 4th, and as many have pointed out, Gaither, a proven tackle, is a 1st and a contract away, although I suspect Baltimore’s hanging him out there to solicit an offer – which might not need a first.
It’s fun to think about what’s behind door number 2, but the RFA environment this year is something special.
History says we wont be drafting a lineman in the first round....
Iupat is a stretch in the first round IMO, but probably will get drafted mid first round. Just watch the Senior Bowl and there is some questions about him.
Campbell looks like Tarzan plays like Jane.He is another that may go first round based on his Combine workout alone, but if you put the game tape its disturbing.
I have Pouncey as a 2nd round lineman. Brown….ehhhhh..don’t like him one bit.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Forgive the newb question but...
Is the reason the boys aren’t considering a FA safety like Bethea is that his contract is too rich? His tender is a first rounder but imo is probably better than any S that would be available at that pick anyway. I do realize that the money needed to outbid any counters by Indy would be substantial over #27 money so are we hindered by a “final 8” rule?
Not a bad question...
maybe Dallas is considering him.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 8, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
There was something out there that we are interested in Bethea the other day so who knows...
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
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