Cowboys Draft '10, Part 13: at the Center of a Need
We resume our series of position profiles with center, a vital position which is often overlooked, but which has been undermanned in recent years.
When the Cowboys drafted Andre Gurode in 2002, team officials were ecstatic. Gurode had been an All-American guard at Colorado his senior year and displayed in-line power and pulling ability. He looked like a possible successor or partner for the aging Larry Allen. Gurode had also played center in college and Jerry Jones wondered aloud if he might be more valuable in the pivot. Mark Stepnoski had just finished a distinguished 13 year career and the Cowboys needed help there as well. Gurode seemed like the ideal candidate to fix Dallas' interior line woes.
Andre has fulfilled his potential, but it took him a while to find his niche. He started a guard his first three years, but didn't play up to his college billing. Dallas didn't consider him at center at first; Bill Parcells drafted Al Johnson to play that role with his high 2nd rounder in 2003. Gurode got a shot inside when Johnson was sidelined by a microfracture knee surgery but the Tuna didn't express much confidence in Gurode. Parcells wailed that Gurode was a player "he couldn't figure out." He had talent, but lacked consistency. He had power, but missed assignments. He would whiff on linebackers when he tried getting up field, to the 'second level" as the scouts call it. People recall that he had a lot of trouble in '06 and '07 with shotgun snaps.
Dallas remained patient and has gotten some quality play from Gurode in recent years. He fits the ideal size profile for a position which seems to demand two different types of player.
There are four qualities the Cowboys value in a center.
- He must be intelligent. Centers make the protection calls for the offensive line, so the center must be able to recognize fronts and set his mates properly. He has to recognize blitzes, stunts and shifts.
- He must have the power and balance to anchor on pass plays. The A gaps around the center represent the shortest path to the quarterback and if a center can't recognize and negate blitzes in these gaps, or prevent a big defensive tackle like Albert Haynesworth from bull rushing him back into his QBs lap, the passing pocket will crumble, and quickly.
- He must have power to move interior linemen in the run game.
- He must, at the same time, have the quickness to get upfield and cut down middle or inside linebackers in even fronts.
These last two qualities seem counter intuitive and are the undoing of many center prospects. You'll often find a center big enough to handle the straight ahead blocking but who lacks the quickness to reach LBs in space. Or, you may have a center with the movement skills who lacks the ballast to anchor against the Pat Williams or Ted Washingtons of the world. Former C Clay Shiver fits this last profile. He was a high 3rd rounder in '96 who projected as Ray Donaldson's heir, but he couldn't handle power rushers, so the Cowboys brought the aging Stepnoski back for a second go-round.
Size profiles would usually dictate a bigger center prospect. Look at the centers who have started in recent years: Gurode is 318 lbs; backup Cory Proctor is 311 lbs.; Johnson was 305 lbs.; Donaldson was 311 lbs.
I say usually because Stepnoski played at 265-275 lbs. during his career. Step was an anomaly, a former wrestler who combined uncommon strength with an understanding of leverage. Centers like him do not appear often.
Center may seem like a lower priority to some but the team clearly needs one. Proctor has problems with power rushers, despite his size, and the Cowboys running game has sputtered when he has covered for Gurode. There's also the question of Gurode's longevity. Good centers can play well into their 30s, but its not a given that Gurode will emulate Donaldson, Stepnoski, Bruce Matthew or Kevin Mawae.
Gurode turned 32 on Saturday and even if he has another two to three premier years in him, it makes sense to put his eventual replacement into the pipeline soon. Because of the blocking call duties, centers often take a little time to develop. Older hands will recall that Stepnoski started as a rookie and had a lot of trouble with interior pressure. Troy Aikman suffered a few concussions his first two years and Step took his share of the blame. Stepnoski finally settled in about halfway through his second year and was a rock going forward, but no center candidate should be considered an immediate starter.
This year's crop has a high tier, which is three deep, and then a dropoff, according to most of the bigger name analysts. Florida's Markice Pouncey tops the list. He listed at 318 lbs. as a senior but weighed 303 lbs. at the Combine. That seems a bit low, but consider that Max Unger, the player Dallas hoped to get in the 2nd last year, listed at 299. Baylor's J.D. Walton and B.C.'s Matt Tennant fill out this group.
Centers traditionally fall, but highly-rated Cs will go in the first. Tampa Bay took Jeff Faine 21st in '03, Seattle picked Chris Spencer 26th in '05, the Jets took Nick Mangold 29th overall in '06. Last year, Alex Mack went 21st to Cleveland and Buffalo took Eric Wood 28th overall.
Will another C sneak into the last third of this year's first? Pouncey might. He's rated as highly as Mangold and Mack. It's not Dallas' way to look for interior linemen in the 1st. They haven't taken one that high since '79, when Gil Brandt turned in Tennessee C Robert Shaw's card. Shaw looked like a player, until a severe knee injury wiped out his career.
A lot will depend on Pouncey's grade. If Dallas' scouts agree with Pouncey's supporters, and give him one of the last 1st round grades, he may be a value too good to pass up, if the top FS and OT candidates are gone. On the other hand, if Pouncey gets a 2nd round grade, chances are the Cowboys will wait, looking to other candidates in the 2nd or 3rd. That's more their style and I think a player like Walton will be a player of definite interest in those rounds.
If you're looking for a tell, consider the 2nd round tender Dallas gave Proctor last week. He may not be the most appealing player, but you don't release a player until you're certain you have his replacement in house. Proctor's high tender tells me the Cowboys are not sure they'll get somebody good enough to knock him off the roster high in this year's draft.
We'll see.
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Could not agree with you more about C depth and the team walking a fine line..
They have been lucky that Gurode has been fairly durable. I was very disappointed in Pouncey showing up light to the combine. Maybe, for him, it was a good thing in terms of his conditioning. But he did not light it up in the 40 yard either and could not lift due to injury. As you mention, it should all boil down to what the scouts rate and they should not reach just because of need. But they need an upgrade somewhere, somehow, from Proctor.
Do you really think they would pull the trigger
on Pouncey with the 1st pick if they think (hope) that Gurode will man the position for several more years? If they are looking for someone to develop, maybe better look for an eventual replacement with a lower pick. Don’t we generally hope that a first round pick (even if he grades in the second) will see significant time in his rookie campaign?
I imagine you could use Pouncey at G until Gurode tailed off?
Much in the way that Proctor backs up both positions, I could see Pouncey doing the same thing and maybe even pushing for playing time at LG.
Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.
Im waiting until 2nd round....I like Pouncey, but he is a 2nd round Center...
besides Mangold did any of these Centers start last year?
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Wood started. I don't know if Mack did, but the Browns just released Hank Fraley, so he's
gonna start this year.
Unger started for Seattle at G.
and understand this about Unger
his drop was a bit of a fluke. He was to Seattle what Anthony Spencer was for Dallas in ’07.
Their GM said he was gonna take him at 37, but got a trade down offer that was too good to pass up, so they dropped, then regretted it and worked to get back up to get Unger.
That’s three Cs between 21 and 37, realistically. I don’t know if Walton will be there by 59. To me, that explains the 2nd rd. tender on Proctor.
I hear what your saying, but Unger was never projected to go in the first round from what I recall...
49 was probably too low for him I agree, but traditionally Centers as well as Guards go after the first round and rightfully so.. We need a Guard no question about it, but there is alot of good value in the 2nd and 3rd round this year…Pouncey will be there in the 2nd IMO..
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Probably not, but im not taking him at 27..no way
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Neither is Jerry because he is trading down.... :)
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
only if the the 1st rd talent is gone
AND he finds a trading partner, two really big IFs.
In Romo we Trust
Because you know exactly what's going to happen the day of the draft and what others are thinking...
sure.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 9, 2010 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
It's not as easy as you think Boyz
although I’m sure you’ll tell us that you’ve been a GM of an NFL team already and know this to be true.
In Romo we Trust
He started EXCLUSIVELY at guard
He was a college center, but the Bills put him exclusively at guard. I don’t think he even played center in camp, much less a game.
Pouncey could fill Proctor's role this year...
Replace Kosier in 2011, and Gurode in 2012.
Seems logical to me, and he’d be a nice pick. I was against it at first, but he’s now the guy I’m hoping for at 27. I’m just not sold he’ll still be on the board.
I think Mangold has started every year he has been in the league. 2 or 3 years.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Well, Unger is the guy in Seattle so Spencer didnt work out too well
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Gurode is overrated
You’re profile points to it.
1. Gurode is commonly known to get help from Kosier in making calls, and when Kosier went down, so did Gurode’s performance.
2. The A gap blitz has been our biggest problem area for years.
3. Our interior run stats are abysmal.
4. As you said “He would whiff on linebackers when he tried getting up field, to the ’second level” as the scouts call it." Still does.
Add in the shotgun snap problems and you’ve got a player that fails every category.
While still serviceable, Gurode, more than any other OL starter, is the biggest weakness on this team.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
I think you're going too far in the other direction
Andre’s game has warts. No question about it. But don’t look at him in a vacuum. He’s still probably one of the best Cs in the NFC. He can get a push in the run game and his second-level play is hot and cold. He’ll have some poor games and others where he’s very good.
But he makes mistakes, no doubt about it. That’s why I wonder where Pouncey’s grades turns out. I can see him at 27, but only on two conditions:
1. he’s got a legit 1st round grade, which he might. He’s got some huge fans. He’s in the top 32. He’s 26th on Scouts Inc.‘s board. He’s been upgraded to 21st on Scott Wright’s board and Wes Bunting of NFP has Pouncey in his top 10.
So it’s possible that Pouncey may get one of Dallas’ last 1sts.
2. The FS, OTs and WRs with comparable grades have to be gone.
We won’t know this ever, or at best until way past the draft.
Those are small odds, but if the FS and OTs are gone, I could see it. I don’t think it’s probable, but it’s possible.
Too far? Me? Never.
I’ve made no secret my disdain for Gurode. Unger was my pet cat last year for that very reason.
But I agree that FS and OT are needs and that the talent in those spots will undoubtedly go before the second tier talent at Center. But unlike last year (with 3 top guys), this draft looks awfully thin. The only other guys with a decent grade (according to your guy at NFP) is Tennant from BC and JD Walton from Baylor.
Walton would be my 2nd or 3rd round choice if GM Jerry stays true to his usual profile. ’79…geez! 31 years is older than most bloggers here.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
Here's his scouting report from NFP
A natural bender who gets into opposing linemen quickly off the snap, Walton has the body control to angle them away from the play. He’s coordinated on the move and does a nice job extending his arms and walking defenders down the line on slide-down blocks. He snaps and steps quickly and has the power in his base to create a bit of a push off the ball. He exhibits good balance on contact and works hard through blocks, showcasing a mean streak in the run game. He does a nice job getting into blocks off the snap and has enough power to create an initial surge, but lacks the power to overwhelm defensive tackles at the point of attack. Walton showcases the coordination to chip at the line and reach a moving target at the second level.
He looked a lot more comfortable in space this season and consistently was able to break down and seal his man away from the play. He sets quickly in the pass game and does a great job instantly getting his hands up and into opposing defenders bodies. He showcases good hand placement on contact and consistently gains leverage at the point. He exhibits impressive short-area quickness and does a nice job sliding his feet when engaged and mirroring linemen inside. Walton looks like a guy who will be able to win a starting job in the NFL and anchor the interior of an offensive line for years to come.
Being a Baylor grad, I followed him and was duly impressed. Guy is very bright (he must be, being from Baylor), was seldom overpowered, and has a very high ceiling. While more in line with Step than Gurode, I’d take him in the second in a second.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
I agree with everything you said.
It really hurt to miss Unger last year. I think Gurode’s play hurts the rest of the line. He does not seem to be in sink with Romo on the snap count. Walton in the 2nd would be great.
If you don't like Gurode, then chances are you won't like his replacement
Unless Dallas can get Pouncey, none of this crop of centers looks like a future starter.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
I will go along with that..probably the reason they wanted Unger..
Gurode is solid, but really nothing that special to think we couldnt use an upgrade.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Take a look at him matched up with Haynesworth
Gurode is more than solid, you guys are acting like a prospect can walk in and takes his job. Andre will be the Boys center for several more years.
You are right about his play against Haynesworth
But he does not play against him every week.
If you watched the Redskin game Gurode wasn't matched up on Haynesworth. Kosier was and got destroyed.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
He was in the Tenn game. Kick his ass so bad he flipped.
Washington was smart and had Haynesworth avoid Gurode.
I guess your making the point we need Pouncey in the 1st to play G.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Deangello Hall is on ESPN saying Campbell needs to be replaced
that seems to be a little out of line
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
can't give away the draft strategy D'Angelo!
what if they want a QB and hope that Bradford falls?
Pouncey makes a whole lotta of sense for many reasons!
In my opinion, Andre Guorde isn’t an elite center in the NFL. He has all the physical attributes you look for, but struggles with the mental aspect of the game. How many times do we see basic DL stunts cause havoc in the interior of our line. Baltimore ran them over and over again, with great success two seasons ago. Here are the questions we need to ask regarding our offensive line? What happens if our Center goes down? The season could be over immediately, if Proctor becomes a starter again. Who replaces Kyle Kosier in 2011, when his contract is up? Brewster? Who can replace Guorde if his production is lacking? Pouncey is an ideal selection for this team. It gives you options at two positions, where the team can decide where he best fits, they can even move Guorde back to Guard, when Kosier is gone. Pouncey also provided an immediate interior gameday swing lineman. We do not have to hold our breath anylonger, if one of our interior lineman to hurt on the field.
Are you talking about the Baltimore game or Minnesota divisional game
Saw recently that you have been reading for some time but have not contributed. Welcome and keep up the good post. This is very insightful and true IMO. I could have wrote this same post.
I especially agree with the interchangeability of the lineman when you have a prospect like Pouncey. It would have been great to have a lineman like Pouncey to replace Kosier in the divisional game. No way anybody would have thought of that with Proctor.
I personally would love to see Pouncey drafted to start and move Gurode to LG.
Woodson is a Hall of Famer!!!
Sergi Render
I wonder if Hokie OG Render could make the transition to C. He’s 6’3", 318 and was the best OL for a Hokies team that ran over people last season despite having a horrific passing offense. He’s definitely a road-grader, and intelligent, but am not sure he’s quick enough to stop the quick interior rushers. The very (very) novice scout in me says he would be a good project in the 5th or 6th round. (Being a Hokie alumn makes me a little biased, however).
The more I think about it...
…the more I want Pouncey. I think he’d be third on my list of realistic(-ish) gets behind Thomas and Iupati but above Odrick. The great thing is that the Cowboys don’t have huge needs at high-impact positions like QB, OLB, CB, WR, etc. Those positions can get over-valued in the draft and taken earlier while positions like OG, OC, DT and S can produce All-Pro caliber players from the lower end of the first round. I like the 3-4 guys I listed because I could see them all developing into All-Pro/Pro-Bowl players one day and I think that should be the goal for the Cowboys. Sure, Spencer took some time to develop, but he got All-Pro votes this year.
If Pouncey truly does grade out like Mangold or Mack, I will be a happy camper if he’s the Cowboys pick. Oddly enough, it looks like the two teams most likely to take a guard or center in the first round are the Steelers or Cowboys…even though they are 10 picks apart. Strange that the two teams’ boards would be similar despite the gap in picks.
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
martellus bennett
seems to be complaining on a radio stration… Rotoworld reported it. I saw several chances the guy had to make plays but simply came up empty, especially on 3rd downs. John Phillips had just as much opportunity and most the absolute most of it, so his argument carries little weight with me.
Is he a freak of nature? yes.
Can he be a good TE? probably not for dallaas.
Can he be one of the all time greats (As he claims he will be on the rotoworld report) Doubt it- the guys just doesnt have his head in the right place
p.s.
sorry for slaughtering that statement with poor writing! my bad fellas. spell check
by missingthe90s on Mar 8, 2010 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
I'd like to listen to that crap
Considering the amount of balls thrown his way, he might’ve dropped them more than RW. That idiot can’ t get his focus on football.
Look at Darrelle Revis, he also does that rap nonsense, but when season’s on he manages to shift his focus completely to FOOTBALL. And he’s the best CB in the league.
Why didn’t Jerruh draft Jermichael Finley instead of him? Why, God?
by Cowboysaficionado on Mar 8, 2010 4:39 PM CST up reply actions
Because Finley can't block.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 8, 2010 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
Isn't easier to teach how to block
Than waiting on a dude to realize that being a retard is not the right way?
by Cowboysaficionado on Mar 8, 2010 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
I'm a Finley fan...
but finley wasn’t exactly the stability of emotion coming out.
He wasn’t a tard, but he had made some pretty bad decisions.
To this day, I still think that he would have been drafted higher if he had stayed in another year in college.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 8, 2010 4:50 PM CST up reply actions
Trade him to Cincy before it's too late!!!!
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
One more year
Because of his age and talent, we have to give him one more year. He’s gotta learn some of the playbook if only by osmosis over 3 years. I just don’t see how a guy can be that good preseason and fizzle like this.
If we don’t get 40+ catches and 8+ TD’s next year, we can inquire into whether we can trade him straight up for Fasano.
I don't think you'd have to have those exact numbers for it to be a success.
Just some production.
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 8, 2010 6:01 PM CST up reply actions
Bennett was only
targeted 34 times in 2009. That is roughly two passes per game. To get the type of numbers you are looking for he would have to have about 70 passes thrown to him as he was #5 in targets in this year. I just don’t see that happening in the Cowboys" offense as currently structured.
I think they took him out of game plans
when it became obvious he didn’t know where he was supposed to be on passing plays. I think he will be targeted more often if he goes where Romo expects him to go.
by JimmyJohnson on Mar 8, 2010 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
That's the reason to trade him now.
He’s young and he has talent. Bennett can be great, but he’s a knucklehead. 15 catches for 159 yards in 2009. He had 35 chances to catch the ball. Too many rattled around in his hands before he dropped them. That doesn’t happen to a talented guy who is prepared. If he really cared shouldn’t he be speaking out about how pissed off he is at himself? Trade him now before he proves he’ll never grow up.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
C is not a reason to keep Proctor
The Colts found a productive Guard substitute teaching last year. Not a probowler… but not an utter embarrassment who got run over on a consistent basis like Cory Proctor. After we address our real needs in the early rounds, we can take a backup center/guard or two in rounds 5-7 and/or pick up a couple of UFAs. There is a good chance that 1/2 of them will be a huge improvement over Proctor.
Only half?
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors. - Thomas Jefferson
The problem there is if Gurode goes down...
for any length of time, that guy has to step in and start at C, and right away. G is one thing, but C is a whole other deal. If it’s a rookie, I want it to be a top guy like Pouncey, not some developmental late round guy. Aside from that, give me a veteran to back up Gurode. Preferably better than Proctor though !
Hey JJ
we got no 5.
This draft for us is like a box of chocolates.
pouncey should be there at 27
boards currently show him as a low first early second.
Robert Shaw? When he was drafted in 79 I think I remember him being listed at 6’2" and 245. Amazing what has happened in size to the big guys in the NFL over the last 30 years.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate"
Pittsburgh resigned Clark and signed Will Allen
So I guess we can cross them out of the Earl Thomas sweepstakes, right?
by Cowboysaficionado on Mar 8, 2010 7:26 PM CST reply actions
Yes, but OTOH,
that puts them right back atop the Mike Iuputi sweepstakes.
Yep, that's right on.
I don’t see how the Steelers will pass on him. Only if Joe Haden falls right on their lap.
by Cowboysaficionado on Mar 8, 2010 9:19 PM CST up reply actions
The Cowboys OL Depth is terrible, alot of personeel is needed!
Doug Free maybe the only serviable backup on the entire line, which isn’t good at all. Brewster will in essence be a developemental rookie next season, along with Bright as a practice squad developmental player. Proctor/Preston/McQuistan do not belong on an NFL roster. Who replaces Adams, Kosier in 2011? Who replaces Proctor as our swing interior lineman who can also backup at Guard, next season? The team needs to find answers at LT, LG and backup gameday, swing interior lineman this offseason.
True, but
I think most would agree that our OL starters are at least adequate. We definitely need depth and future starters, though. Same goes for NT. But quality interior linemen are available in the mid rounds.
But, RIGHT NOW, today, our starting FS, #2 WR, FB and probably DE need to be replaced. So shouldn’t we go in that direction (except FB) in the first few rounds. That and a future LT if one is available.
You're saying no OL in the first three rounds?
Doubt that’s gonna happen.
Raf...
what do you think about the glamor pick Golden Tate?
John McClain: Welcome to the party, pal!
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Mar 8, 2010 8:51 PM CST reply actions
Golden Tate
We don’t need him. We need playmakers on defense or a O-linemen. Why do we need a DE when we have Hatcher and Bowen who could start? We also still have Spears until further notice. I am leaning more towards Earl Thomas or Pouncey in the 1 round. Get what we need now, who can possibly push for a roster spot and could conceivably start now.
We need a playmaker at WR...your smoking something if you think this group is set..
There are alot of questions with this core of WR’s…
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
wow...we have one that can stretch the field...is there something written in stone saying we dont need another...lol
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
yeah, I'm sure every team wants two playmakers at WR
just like every team wants a franchise qb and every guy wants to date a supermodel. Not as easy as just wanting it.
In Romo we Trust
Roy Williams needs to step up
The O is better than solid still there is room to improve. Tony put up record numbers.
Austin is fantastic, Crayton and Witten move the chains. Anybody expecting Bennett to make a leap? A second threat at WR would open everything up. Boldin could have been that guy, is Jerry will to break open his piggy bank for Marshall?
Don't forget Ogletree
He hasn’t proven he can be the compliment to Austin yet, but it would not be surprising if he ends the season as the #2 or #3 WR.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''

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