Add Bruce Campbell and Taylor Mays to the Cowboys' list of pre-draft invitees.
From DC.com:
Offen[sive] tackle Bruce Campbell, a player who certainly helped his own stock at the draft combine when he blew away scouts and coaches with his agility, is coming to Valley Ranch on Tuesday for a visit.
After that, USC safety Taylor Mays will also be coming through the team headquarters to visit with coaches, scouts and possibly even front-office personnel.
about 2 years ago
Aaron Novinger
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yuck to both
And dez bryant has been removed from the jags and browns draft board according to rotoworld.
by TONYINCC on Apr 13, 2010 1:30 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Yuk to both...one is a RW clone and the other is a project...
both are definately not first round players, but maybe overdrafted based on their Combine workouts.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
I hope Mays is meeting with the Linebacker's coaches
Beacuse I think he’s good value in the 4th round as a linebacking project.
Friends don't let friends
draft workout warriors. This proves that Eric Mangini had no friends in his warroom when he drafted Gholston.
You mean he has no friends—period.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
by HudBaby on Apr 13, 2010 3:10 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
He has, what, like 2 career INTs?
They guys just didnt produce. Therefore, he’s a workout warrior. He’s only being projected high because of potential. Most of the other first round projected players produced on the field, too.
woah hold on a second
he’s been starting for USC since he was a Freshman.
Pete Carroll says he’s the faster player USC had while there.
All American, and was considered a favorite to go in the top 10 last year
He’s not a bag of oats, he’s definitely got something to him
by AustonianAggie on Apr 13, 2010 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
5 INTs
jeez cut the guy SOME slack
by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 13, 2010 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions
ABM
Anyone but Mays
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
by HudBaby on Apr 13, 2010 3:09 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
lol
nice
Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash into his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely - lay your life before him. - Bruce Lee
In all seriousness, is there anyone who looks like as big of a bust as Mays in the first?
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
by HudBaby on Apr 13, 2010 3:11 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Why take a risk on a 1st round LT project
when Gaither is 26 and can be had for a 2nd rounder?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_tGzFOGNHY
Gaither is 24
only adding to your point
So pardon my disposition; why should I listen to a system that never listened to me?
This isn't good news, hopefully it's a smoke screen
I’ll be very disappointed if we draft either one of these overrated prospects
In Romo we Trust
Please be a smokescreen, please be a smokescreen, please be a smokescreen
"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin
It's not a smoke screen,
but it doesn’t mean they’re going to draft him either. There’s a 50-50 chance he will be gone at 27.
In an interview Willie was ask if he was thinking about retiring. He paused for a moment, smiled and replied " I play music and golf, which one do you think I need to give up"?
I think Mays will be fine
Campell, at the bottom of the 1st, would be ok
Mays would be a steal. He may not make many INTs but forcing Offenses off the field on 3rd Down is good enough
we need a safety with cover skills and Mays has none
He’d be a reach and potential bust at 27.
In Romo we Trust
Watch more college football.
Mays is a damn good player, and has the potential to be a beast. All the comparisons to Roy Williams are flat out wrong. They are totally different players.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Not quite
Mays is a little bigger and a little faster, aside from that he’s very similar to Roy Williams.
Let the chips fall where they may
No, he's really not.
Roy was a hard hitting safety that couldn’t cover in college. Mays is a big, fast , athletic guy who hits hard and has shown that he can make plays on the ball, but could use some coaching as far as perfecting this side of his game. Roy was what he was. Mays has a way higher ceiling.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Mays doesn't have good cover skills
or good instincts for being a safety. Anyone watching him play should be able to clearly see that fact.
In Romo we Trust
He's raw.
It’s not that he doesn’t have said skills, it’s that he needs to work on them. I’ve seen the guy make plays. I’ve actually watched USC games and not just YouTube highlights.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
that's a lame excuse
Mays doesn’t have cover skills, he’s very stiff, can’t flip his hips in coverage and has only straight line speed.
Players from Division 1-AA and Division II are raw, players that are supposed All-Americans can’t use that excuse.
In Romo we Trust
I guess.
By the way that “supposed All American” is a two time All American first teamer. It’s not like it was a fluke. The guy can play, flat out. Most of his issues can be fixed with coaching I think. He is not my favorite option, but if he’s the best player available when we draft I would draft him instead of trading down. I wouldn’t slit my wrists like some people if the Cowboys picked up Taylor Mays. If you go back to last year people were salivating over him, but he had an “unproductive” year last year (had more tackles than Eric Berry or Earl Thomas did) and now he’s a guaranteed bust? Give me a break. I am confident he will be a good safety in the NFL, and probably Pro Bowl caliber. I don’t care what anybody says.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
You just don't fix bad hips and poor backpedal...
The guy played for USC, which has as close to Pro training as possible, and he’s a workout warrior, if he seems to have poor hips and poor back pedal is because that’s all that he is and he won’t get any better.
If you add his awareness and instincts questions you have a player, that in our opinion, doesn’t fit into what the Cowboys currently like for the position.
Now, about Mays being a two time AA… Is that an indication of how good he’s going to be in the NFL? Let’s simplify things, the Heisman trophy is awarded to the “most outsanding” player in a given year and among it’s last few winners we can count the likes of: Troy Smith, Matt Leinart, Jason White, Eric Crouch and Chris Weinke… College Awards and nominations mean very little in the NFL.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
i honestly don't get the Mays-hate.
i mean, i would be satisfies with an Earl Thomas pick.
i don’t hate the guy.
but people treat him like he’s god compared to Mays.
Mays has so much potential. he can be such a weapon for a defense.
but, people judge him like they’ve follwed his whole USC career, when really
they’ve just heard bad things, like that he goes for the big hit too often.
(and no, the one or two of you who chime in and say, “i’ve watched plenty
of SC football, and i know…” you don’t defeat my point that the hate is
unreasonably widespread)
we have a safety with cover skills. his name is Gerald Sens… Sensi…
His name is Gerald.
and i don’t pretend to know anything definitively about prospects
(i wanted Derick Johnson over Ware), but i’m pretty sure Mays would not have
completely whiffed or bounced off of Mark Ingram, like Earl Thomas did.
I don't hate Mays
I just don’t want him to play for us because he can’t cover and over the past several years we’ve had enough safeties who couldn’t cover.
Fans love Thomas because he can cover and he’s a tremendous ball hawk…again something Mays is not.
BTW, in todays NFL, both of your safeties need to cover well if you’re going to have a good pass defense.
In Romo we Trust
Once in a while
It wouldn’t hurt to be able to stop La’Ron McClain and Willis McGahee score back-to-back 70+ yd TDs either.
Movie Reference
by accidental innuendo on Apr 13, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd argue that Mays is much better in coverage than people think,
and that the evidenve is those “big hit” attempts he’s known for.
it takes very good positioning to go for hits the way Mays does.
and as a single high safety, it’s even more impressive.
Mays has jarred the ball loose from numereous WRs because he’s
in position to make the hit, and that (i believe) cannot be argued.
INTs do not directly equate to good coverage. i’ve seen Mays, as a single high saftey, run roll over the top of Golden Tate. that’s impressive for someone who cannot cover.
i completely understand your stance on Mays.
i don’t think it’s legitimate. but it’s widespread,
so it’s understandable.
but remarks like yours, just now, “the game tape disagrees with you.”
is what gets me, because i’m pretty sure you have no more access
to “game tape” than i do. and, living in los angeles (no, i’m not a USC homer. I root for the teams that play USC [no Notre Dame], so that’s not why i like Mays), i’d think that i’ve seen enough of the kid to make a fair judgement, judgement that isn’t based off of an unfair label.
I don't need game tape to watch USC games on TV
and from what I saw, he can’t cover. Usually when observations are widespread, they’re legit.
In Romo we Trust
Widespread observations.
The Texans are foolish. Reggie Bush is a must have.
Robert Gallery, a top 5 talent? Of course!
Who’s the consensus # pick this Year? Jamrcus Russell.
(This one, i don’t get. People bash the Raiders for drafting poorly, but they draft poorly even when they take the consensus pick)
Ryan Leaf could go number 1.
Glenn Dorsey will dominate.
Aaron Rodgers is a system QB from Berkeley.
Desean Jackson is too small…
Yes, all legit.
A lot of teams wouldn't have drafted Russell in the 2nd round.
In my book Russell had bust written all over him. How about DHB? You’re thinking that was a good pick? You’re all over the place Falcon. You have the super-minority opinion on Mays. Deal with it? You’re not convincing anyone around here.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
That is a little bit of a ridiculous statement.
There are plenty of teams who would have taken him. You really think the Lions would have passed on him at #2 (because Drew Stanton in the second round was such a great backup plan)? To say he would have slid like that is patently false in my opinion.
I really don’t see why you think Falcon is all over the place. He clearly was laying out consensus or highly held ideas in the draft that have been proven by the test of time to be wrong.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Apr 13, 2010 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions
And Jamarcus was that consensus number one pick for many
draftniks in 2007. Sure there were some concerns at the time, but those same draftniks are not wholly sure on Bradford either (who is the current consensus #1 pick for this draft).
He also wasn’t absolving the Raiders of their DHB mistake, but simply pointing out that the Raiders, a team associated with bad drafting for good reason even do poorly when they take the player (Jamarcus Russell) who many thought they should take.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Apr 13, 2010 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
You can have Russell and Mays
Not interested.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Obviously you are misunderstanding what I am saying.
I have never said I wanted Russell or thought the Cowboys should go after him, but if you really think he would have dropped to the second round, I think you are definitely smoking something.
And as for Mays, I certainly agree that there are several other players I would much rather have. However, it is completely premature to say that he will be a bust like Russell since not only was he once considered a top ten pick, but he clearly has the potential to be a great player. My personal favorite line to read is that Mays is Roy Williams reincarnate because if that were true, I would love to grab him so we could have the heat seeking missile (and top-ten safety) that Roy was when he first came into the league.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Apr 14, 2010 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Read sir.
I never said Russell would drop to the 2nd. That was your failed interpretation. I said there were teams that wouldn’t have drafted him to the 2nd round. You’re arguing a point that you have misinterpreted. Great job!
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Your quote was “A lot of teams wouldn’t have drafted Russell in the second round.” That clearly suggests you operate under the belief that many thought Russell didn’t have a second round grade. And regardless of whether or not you think he would of slid to the second round, that belief within itself is ridiculous. For one, you have absolutely no evidence to back up such a claim (all available evidence strongly suggests he had a first round and probably a top-ten grade). Secondly, can you name another situation when a top ten pick was commonly graded by other teams to have a second round grade? The closest examples I can think of would be Donte Whitner and Darrius Heyward-Bey, but both were still commonly believed to have a first round grade or at worst a borderline first round grade. So yes, I did misread your original comment. Still though, that doesn’t make my overall point any less valid.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Apr 14, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
You're messed up dude.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
If you would prefer me not to reply
I would suggest you stop being sarcastic. Plus, wasn’t it you that called out another poster for name-calling?
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Apr 14, 2010 5:04 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I didn't call you a name.
You’ve misinterpreted and tried to revise what I’ve said all day long. The funny thing is, I haven’t even been reading your responses. I read the first line or two, realize you’re totally wrong about what I said, and move on. LOL. You’ve spent your whole day defending Jamarcus Russell. Do you feel better? I still think he’s a bum. Sorry if that riles you, but I think he is a B.U.M!
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
I suppose "messed up" doesn't qualify
as a name, but it sure doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of your previous post to accidental innuendo does it? Regardless, the whole point of my argument was not to defend Russell as it stands currently (I as well think he is a bum), but to defend the fact that he was by most accounts a player worthy of a top pick back in 2007. To insinuate otherwise is incorrect in my opinion.
The odd comment you make though is that I have somehow spent my “whole day” arguing this point when you have been replying the whole time. It would seem odd to criticize another person for continually arguing something when you are willing to keep responding.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Apr 15, 2010 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, my responses have been short.
The truth is the whole time we were having this convo, I was thinking how we’ve agreed on so many things in the past. Well, I’m off on a journey to Dallas. Peace out, bro. Let’s have a pleasant one next time.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
big difference between observations and evaluations
falconPUNCH, you’re confusing the two.
In Romo we Trust
You mean like the widespread belief that Romo was a celebrity QB?
Or the widespread belief that Romo didn’t work hard enough?
Or the widespread belief that Romo faded in December?
by Luke. on Apr 13, 2010 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I said observations, not preceptions
very huge difference. Actually all the real observations were that Romo is an extremely hard worker, gym rat basically, and that he lives football 24/7.
Those are the actual observations. False perceptions are the product of the media and fans like Tex.
In Romo we Trust
Terry,
That’s a good point about perceptions and observations. And I agree that what I said were the perceptions about Romo but they weren’t based off of nothing as you suggest. They were based off of peoples real observations.
Romo’s dating of celebrities and Romo’s poor December rating were real events. People did actually observe them and then the perceptions were created out of them. Now, I agree that most of the perceptions were way overblown and were born from people who never really spent a lot of time looking into what was happening and ignored evidence that contradicted their perceptions and that is the very point about Taylor Mays here.
Taylor Mays, despite being considered by our Valley Ranch scouting department and most serious internet Draft sites/analyst’s (including your best friend Mike Mayock) as well as numerous other teams I’m sure, as a legitimate first round draft pick, the perception by many fans and bloggers seems to be that he’s a terrible player and a guaranteed bust.
There’s no doubt he’s had some coverage issues and needs some work but people are acting like he’s Bradie James at Safety even though if he was anything close to that bad in coverage in reality he wouldn’t be regarded as a first round pick by anyone. The perception of Mays as hopeless in coverage doesn’t fit the reality. Just like the way people accused Romo of being a half-committed celebrity QB and ignored his production because he had a famous girlfriend and laughed a lot on the field.
Mays’ hips/backpedal issues are being overblown to the point where some people think he’s hopeless when that’s obviously not the case as our scouts have clearly stated with their first round approval of his game.
Good points
Mays is very often in good posititon which allows hin to make those huge hits. The statement about him jarring the ball loose from numerous wide recievers is inaccurate tho. While he has lit up many a wide out he has 1 forced fumble to his credit durring his tenure @ SC.
by Bermystar on Apr 13, 2010 4:50 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
BUT-
jarring the ball loose by being in position when the ball arrives does not amaount to fumbles, because it amounts to incomplete passes. right?
Mays would have been a good Safety in the 80s
Ok, maybe even the 90s. But you can see that the game has passed Roy Williams skill-set. Mays is the same way. He’s a big hitter, in-the-box safety. Sure, Mays is much faster. But Roy Williams is a much better play maker.
He was awesome for a while as an in-the-box safety. But teams just dont use their Safeties that way much anymore. Opposing teams throw too much to need a guy who is essentially another LB. They need guys who can cover. When an opposing OC sees Mays out there, he will split his back out, or put in a slot receiver, or even use a TE as a slot receiver if you have one with those skills. THey will look for the one-on-one match ups with Mays. And they will exploit him.
Mays could possibly make a good LB. He will not make a good Safety in today’s NFL.
I'm with Austonian Aggie
The Cowboys FO has given Mays a first-round grade. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that they might, just might, know what they’re doing.
As for Campbell, I’d be vewy happy to see him in Cowboys colors. I think he’s got great potential.
I wish we weren’t so biased against these guys just because they’re physically gifted. And they both have long enough college careers, so the Cowboys would set the right expectations for them coming in. Not like they’r single-season wonders.
Movie Reference
by accidental innuendo on Apr 13, 2010 4:36 PM CDT reply actions
From ESPN Dallas via Calvin Watkins here — he was at the owners’ meetings in Orlando.
Also of note: The Cowboys gave first-round grades on safeties Taylor Mays, Eric Berry and Earl Thomas.
Movie Reference
by accidental innuendo on Apr 13, 2010 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions
You can't depend on anything clubs say from February to July.
And I can’t lend credence to ANYTHING from Calvin Watkins. He’s a Dallas Cowboy hating hack.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
whats your source that the Cowboys FO gave Mays a first rd grade?
something tells me that’s pure speculation on your part.
In Romo we Trust
I agree on the part about so many people railing against these physically gifted players.
Does any one really think the Cowboys draft Demarcus Ware, a player first projected by SI.com to go in the early second round, with the #11 overall pick if he doesn’t show off his freakish athleticism at the combine and at Troy’s pro day?
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Apr 13, 2010 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
yes, I do
Ware produced in college and at the Senior Bowl. Cowboys probably had him high on their board going into the combine.
In Romo we Trust
Mays was named First-team All-Pac 10 for the second year in a row and was named First-team All-America for the third consecutive season, at the end of 2009.
Somebody watched game tape and thought he was pretty sweet
Admittedly, I rarely watch USC ball, they weren’t on my Big12 focused radar this year
by AustonianAggie on Apr 13, 2010 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions
he had a pick in the senior bowl
and overall looked better than Nate Allen in it yet many ppl love Nate Allen, I like the kid but if you look back at my mocks I don’t think I’ve ever had Allen in there cuz I don’t think he is going to be the FS we want back there, he is a good solid prospect but he isn’t better than Mays
by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 13, 2010 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions
All the Mays hate is hilarious to me.
Yeah he has some questions, but a lot of his issues I firmly believe can be fixed by some good coaching. He’s not my favorite option at safety, but he definitely doesn’t suck. He has the potential to be one of the top safeties in the NFL, just needs a little polishing.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Well you are entitled to your revisionist history
but Ware was a player who rose tremendously in the months from the end of the football season to drafting time. If we went solely off game tape like you have proclaimed to prefer, I think it is extremely unlikely we pick him at #11.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Apr 13, 2010 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions
No, you're absolutely right
His stock soared after the Senior Bowl and Combine… But that’s because he showed that he had the physical ability to move to OLB and that he had the instincts to play in coverage…
Out of everything that I’ve seen, Mays is incredibly fast, but the questions about his stiff hips and poor back pedal have been responded in a negative light, the guy has poor hips and back pedal…
Now, can you play with poor hips and back pedal? Look around the League, look at the best Safeties in the game… Can you see someone with such a combination? Adrian Wilson is a bit stiff, has a fine back pedal, but his scheme makes use of his ability. The Cowboys don’t use that scheme, and they shouldn’t, because Wade’s scheme is a really good one, probably among the best.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
Well Troy Polamalu
would probably not do too well in those fluidness drills either. However, I do agree with the point that Dallas has to decide whether it could make Taylor Mays work or not since I do believe that he is limited to schemes that are not going to put him in a lot of one on one situations with receivers. I do think those that are calling him a bust already are way too prematurely pigeonholing a guy whose potential is extremely high (I also think it will probably help Mays to have a huge chip on his shoulder).
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Apr 13, 2010 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
All along I’ve said that he’s indeed a 1st Round prospect, but you have to fit him in your scheme…
In Dallas, with Wade’s scheme, Mays only fits as an ILB.
Oh, and Polamalu has really good hips, I’ve seen him changing directions in a dime and he’s well respected because he tends to be in the right position at the right times, which talks about his awareness.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
I take nothing away from Polamalu
but I would definitely say it is his awareness, not his hips (since he doesn’t have a CBs hips), that allow him to be in the right place at the right time.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Apr 13, 2010 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Awareness
and great instincts. Which is something of a question mark for Mays.
Rabid and luvin' it
by lonewolfz28 on Apr 13, 2010 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions
It definitely is a question.
I do think that Mays will have to put in a good amount of work and get good coaching to be successful.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Apr 14, 2010 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Good news, Miles Austin is working out with the team today.
In an interview Willie was ask if he was thinking about retiring. He paused for a moment, smiled and replied " I play music and golf, which one do you think I need to give up"?
That is AMAZING news
I didn’t have too much of a problem w/ Miles missing that much but there were obviously ?s that came from it, good to see him back
by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 13, 2010 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I admit, I haven't watched all of his game tape
And yes, he was an All-American and led a (mostly) great defense his whole career, but that was college. You want a college safety who BOTH was productive in college, and DOESN’T HAVE STIFF HIPS. Sure, Mays was able to be awesome in college, but in the pros? He’s another guy. Yes, he’s an athletic guy who’s chiseled and can run a pretty darn fast 40, but he’s got stiff hips. I didn’t have to watch much of his play to see that, and we saw it again and again when he ran drills leading up to the draft. His athleticism masked his inability to flip his hips quickly in college, I’m just not sure he can do it in the pros. He’s rated as a first-round talent based on his athletic ability (& therefore his potential), much like Bruce Campbell. And I have no doubt he would work his butt off, unlike Bruce Campbell, but I still am not quite sure he’s the guy the Cowboys want. They went with the big, physically imposing safety a few years back. Roy Williams was fine, when he had an excellent veteran next to him, but when Woodson was gone, Williams was done. I’m not sure Sensi is good enough to cover up Mays deficiencies in coverage.
Just my humble opinion…
DAG
Mays seems to be rated by virtually every source, including the Cowboys front office, as a first round selection.
And yet the blog universe is filled will "experts" who are positive he’ll be a bust. Contrary to popular belief if you actually read any of Mays’ scouting reports he’s predominately said to be a good zone defender who moves forward and attacks underneath very well.
Also, Safety’s have to tackle too. They can’t just have "great hips" and that’s it. If having great hips is all that matters at Safety why don’t teams simply draft College CB’s to play Safety in the NFL? If all that matters in their one-on-one coverage ability why don’t they draft CB’s for Safety? Because Safety’s also need to stop the run, make many, many tackles, take on blocks and blitz.
Troy Polamalu doesn’t get lined up one-on-one against the other teams 1st, 2nd or even 3rd WR. That’s what your top 3 CB’s are for not your safety. On passing plays the safety mostly supports those coverage guys with underneath or over the zone top coverage. On running plays the safety is expected to get his nose right in the thick of it and do some damage while he’s in their.
Mays is no more a guaranteed bust than #8 overall pick coverage safety Michael ‘great hips and backpedal’ Huff was a guaranteed success (4 Int’s in 51 games and many missed tackles hardly a success).
by Luke. on Apr 13, 2010 6:00 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I dunno
I’ve seen only highlights of Mays and a few games, but from what I’ve seen he’s not much of a tackler. He almost always either throws his shoulder for the knockout or swings an opponent down to the ground. Rarely do you see form tackling by him. I suppose it worked most of his college career, but that doesn’t fly as often in the NFL. To me he’s a solid 2nd rounder, not a 1st.
Let the chips fall where they may
This is actually a legit concern for me
but it is one I also think can easily be reshaped by the Cowboys coaching staff.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Apr 13, 2010 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a possibility
I wouldn’t mind seeing him come to the Cowboys on potential alone, but not with our 1st, no way no how.
Let the chips fall where they may
I have to say some of the coverage stuff is concerning
but how many safeties do you think have the speed to make that play down the line on Javhid Best? It does make you wonder why USC played him so deep and didn’t let him roam a little more.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Apr 13, 2010 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
There's no questioning his speed
But, I saw a couple instances where he roamed himself up too close to the line of scrimmage and ended up with bad angles which made him miss the play. Could it be they were trying to save him from his own bad instincts?
Rabid and luvin' it
by lonewolfz28 on Apr 13, 2010 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I suppose that could be one explanation.
Perhaps another was that Carroll didn’t feel he had another guy with as much range as Mays. Whatever the reason was, I would think in the NFL the team that drafts him will ask him to play closer to the line more like a SS.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Apr 13, 2010 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
Which jives with many of the “experts” that project him as a SS at the next level…despite what a lot of the Mays fans want to hear.
Rabid and luvin' it
by lonewolfz28 on Apr 13, 2010 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions
So apparently Jerry Jones said
Bill Parcells wasn’t worth a sh!t, and he only hired him to help get his new stadium built, but he still loves the guy. And he wouldn’t draft tebow in the 3rd because he wouldn’t even see then field, which we all knew already. Although the parcells comments are interesting
You aint been around in awhile, maybe you haven't heard........I don't shine shoes no more
by markdamack on Apr 13, 2010 6:02 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I think YouTube has it now. Apparently secretly taped and once again
who the hell knows what Jerry was trying to say???
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
I think he's referring to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDKmlvPIWEk&feature=player_embedded
Let the chips fall where they may
Lets do a comparison....
Stats average per year
Troy Polomano (3 years at USC)
4.3 pass deflection 2 interceptions
Taylor Mays (4 years at USC)
4 deflelctions 1.25 interceptions
The stats were really not much different…so it is tough to tell what a guy will do when he gets to the NFL.
I would rather pass on Mays because of the depth of safety in the draft, but I surely don’t think he is a bad player
by death of the cool on Apr 13, 2010 6:05 PM CDT reply actions
Nice comparison deathofthecool,
I’m not infatuated with Taylor Mays or anything. I don’t want to trade up for him. But if he’s there at #27 and he’s our best rated first rounder available we should draft him because we need a safety and Mays has the physical talent, work ethic and character to be a success.
Exactly.
If he’s there at 27, and say Anthony Davis, Iupati, or Bryant are still there I take one of those guys over Mays and wait until the 2nd or third to grab a guy like Nate Allen, Chad Jones, Morgan Burnett, or Reshad Jones. But if all those guys are gone and Mays is there I draft him. I think he’s going to be very good, but he’s going to be a little bit of a project.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Exactly the point.
I believe that Mays can be a very good player in the NFL (although I like Morgan Burnett more due to my background) if the team that drafts him uses his range and size correctly. After all, there was a reason he would have probably been a top ten pick if he had gone out last year. I will agree though that he is not a guy who you want used to cover receiver one on one in the slot (something that Polamalu is not asked to do much either).
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Apr 13, 2010 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I like Burnett cuz he makes plays
has played some corner as well and has good speed and size…. I would rate him right under Mays on my board
by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 13, 2010 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't post anywhere close to him!!
It’s like when Terry almost met Tex at a game. It likely would have ended the universe, not to mention damaging the new stadium.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Tex was right all along...
Bill Parcells wasn’t worth $hit, he was a mole, and it’s no coincidence that the Tuna’s Giants won a Super Bowl while his moles like Sparano and Ferguson were still on the Cowboys payroll
by Montecito Tex on Apr 13, 2010 6:12 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Settle down Tex
I’m one of the few BTB’ers who is willing to admit I agree with you sometimes. But this is way off base. Parcells didn’t make our Offensive Line Collapse and Patrick Crayton become a drop machine against the G-Men that year. He built this team into what it is today. Wade is riding the talent the same way Switzer did.
by JimmyJohnson on Apr 13, 2010 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Mrs Doutfire
Did the Tuna not hire Sparano during the Cowboys bye week, which is against league rules. Sparano’s line turned in the worst performance of the year after he and others “checked out”. Sparano was hired the next day although they “didn’t have a deal in place”
by Montecito Tex on Apr 14, 2010 5:49 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The roster has turned over considerably since Parcells
as well as they style they play, especially the defense. I think this is completely Wade’s team now.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Tex
ur crazy, and I like it…sometimes
by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 13, 2010 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Campbells tape
was much…much worse, Mays at least got all conference marks while Campbell didn’t even get honorable mentions (I say this cuz I didn’t watch any USC or Maryland games but have scoured the internetz for information) so to say Mays and Campbell’s tape is basically the same is wrong
by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 13, 2010 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions
My only real issue
with Mays is his downright refusal to wrap up when when tackling, a habit that will seriously hurt him in the NFL.
Those are the types of players we should be looking at with the 27th pick
I know they may not be ready to start immediately, but that’s fine. I wouldn’t mind either one(I realize I’m in the minority here). Both could be busts, yes, but they could also be freaks who could shore up either position for a decade or so. I’d roll the dice.
Epic Fail since 1985
I don't like Campbell at all
Mays I don’t mind as much, I would say that I wouldn’t want the Cowboys to draft him unless he is the last first round prospect on the board tho, Campbell I wouldn’t draft at all, good measurables but he didn’t get any honors for his play and the ACC or Big East (can’t remember) isn’t known to be a top conference
by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 13, 2010 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions
That's exactly what I'm saying, though
Probably won’t be a whole lot of guys with a first round grade by the time we’re on the clock. Apparently we’ve only given out 25 first round grades. Unless we want to reach a tad and start going after guys with a 2nd round grade(which I really don’t mind, assuming they can make an immediate impact), guys like Mays and Campbell are likely going to be what we have to choose from. Both could potentially fill a position of need.
I’m hearing Campbell could end up playing guard, so maybe he can see the field a lot earlier than we imagine.
Epic Fail since 1985
by the red scare on Apr 13, 2010 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions
These are guys who were looked at as potential first round picks.
And then they had really good measurables, and now they are almost certainly going to bust.
I’m sorry, there are a reason that coaches and scouts look at a players measurables as well as their gametape. Maximum information possible. I’d be happy about Campbell at 27. Yes, he’s a project, but he won’t be starting immedietly and there is good potential. Mays I don’t want because I don’t like spending a first round pick on a safety. Virtually any safety.
You could make the case that the biggest part of....
…Roy’s undoing was that he started and had success immediately because of course he was paired with Darren Woodson. Woodson’s All-Pro savvy unquestionably helped Roy out a great deal often putting him in an optimum position to make plays but that when Woodson retired, Roy was very stubborn and unwilling to take the necessary steps to improve or evolve his game once his responsibilities increased in the absence of Woodson.
Long story short, he peaked too early and when he needed to evolve his game he refused to.
Mays, on the other hand, may be a more raw prospect and less NFL-ready prospect than Roy but maybe just maybe he’ll be gradually inserted into the line-up and thus more pliable to being molded into a well-rounded safety than Roy was. Of course, work ethic and dedication is unique to the individual so who knows?
All I know is idiots who refuse to wrap up when tackling are a huge red flag for me.
I heard a theory on why his play dropped off so much
on the Lunch Break he was mentioned and they spoke of how his play dropped off after he was left at the alter… dunno the legitimacy of it but if the times do match up like they stated that could have been what mentally crushed him…also Woody leaving didn’t help
by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 13, 2010 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I heard a slightly different version
she was actually there, but he couldn’t stay on her leaving the church and she got away before he could recover.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
That's a very interesting point as well
I’ve always kind of looked at Mays as another shot at getting a player like Roy and doing it right this time around. If he progresses the way Roy should have, he could be a best in the NFL.
Epic Fail since 1985
by the red scare on Apr 14, 2010 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Dez Bryant
Has now been taken off of 10 draft boards entirely. Outside of Cincy and possibly Denver, him slipping enough to “trade up range” is a real possibility, and to be honest, I wouldnt mind leaving the draft with Dez and a second round safety…
DREAM SCENARIO
Getting Dez in the first
trading our second for Gaither
Trading our 3rd or outright signing Atogwe
This would make me a very happy man
That would be good
but then Jerruh would have to wrap about another o I would say around 60 mil in 2 of the 3 players
by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 13, 2010 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions
This is what I've wanted all along.
I’ve been peddling this on every Cowboys blog I post on lol. I am praying this is how it goes down. I seriously think the Cowboys will go to the Superbowl if those three things happen.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
DREAM SCENARIO REVISED
Getting Dez in the first
Trading our second for Gaither
Atogwe is released and we pick him up on the cheap, and we still keep out third
ahhhh to sleep is only but a chance to dream….
he won't be released
and we won’t get him for cheap even if he does, he was almost the only good player on St. Louis defense which makes his feats even better since I’m sure when teams were facing the Rams the only player that really stood out was him for awhile
by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 13, 2010 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh no...
If either of these guys are taken over Iupati, Pouncy, or Dez Bryant it’s going to be a huge blown oportunity.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Apr 13, 2010 10:54 PM CDT reply actions
they won't
I can’t say 100% no way they don’t but I can’t see it
by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 13, 2010 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I think they're just covering all their bases
If Iupati, Pouncey, or Dez are available, I’m sure we’d draft one of them as opposed to Campbell or Mays.
Epic Fail since 1985
by the red scare on Apr 14, 2010 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Thought I remember reading
a while back on Matt Mosely’s blog that the Cowboy’s FO wasn’t that interested in Mays in the 1st…but it is Mosely reporting, so take that with a grain of salt.
by Thehomerpimpson on Apr 14, 2010 3:32 AM CDT reply actions
Mays
I’m not a big fan of May coming to the Cowboys. It’s not that I don’t think he’s a first round talent (I do), it’s just I don’t see Mays as a good fit for the Cowboys. The Cowboys want a safety who can handle a RB, TE, slot WR in man-to-man situations – thus freeing up DWare, Spence and Co. to blitz are drop into hot reads. Mays is more of a zone player and teams who play the Cowboys will do like they did when RW was here and try to isolate Mays in man coverage.
Mays would help this team in run support from the safety position, but if this talented defense is relying on safeties to make tackles on running plays, we’re in trouble.
If Mays gets a chance to play for a Cover 2 Defense, or a team that likes to use their safeties aggressively in the box then he’ll be a good player. Neither one of those descriptions fit the Cowboys. We’re aggressive with our LB’s and use our safties to cover players for our blitzing LB’s. May’s skillset, which is impressive, just isn’t a good match for the Cowboys.
by TK19 on Apr 14, 2010 8:36 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Very good post.
I also agree that Mays isn’t the best fit for the Cowboys, but for some of the people on here to simply declare him a bust before he has played in the NFL seems mighty hypocritical when many of those same people refuse to label last year’s draft a bust due to the lack of early returns.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Apr 14, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
At the worst Mays will be a Pro Bowl SS.
Maybe not quite as good as Polamalu, but I can definitely see him turning into that type of player.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
This is always the dilemma
Teams only know what they can see over a very small window of time. What they can’t know is how much upside is left with the right coaching. RW the First was pretty much at his peak when he came in as a rookie. Jay Ratliff and Miles Austin weren’t even close. This is where a lot of the risk lies in selecting a player.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
I said the same thing about Roy somewhere in this thread.
The difference between him and Mays is Roy was what he was. Mays has shown he has the ability to cover and make plays on the ball, he just needs to work on it, and I believe with the right coaching he will be very good. He might not be an 8 INT a year guy in the NFL, but I promise you this guy can get turnovers because I’ve watched him do it. There’s a reason he would have been the number one safety taken last year if he would have come out, the guy does not suck. He’s just raw.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
He would have been the #1 safety taken for sure
But have you seen the crop of safeties from last year?
Let the chips fall where they may
Touche, sir. Touche.
No, but Louis Delmas is pretty good. Patrick Chung isn’t bad, and Mike Hamlin has the potential to be very good as well. All of those guys were really good in college. But you’re right, this year’s crop of safeties blows last year’s away. Still doesn’t mean Taylor Mays sucks though. The guy is a two time All American first teamer.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
nobody is saying Mays sucks
we’re saying he’s overrated and shouldn’t be drafted in the first rd, big difference.
In Romo we Trust
Ehh...
Don’t know if I agree with that either. The Cowboys don’t, they have put a first round grade on him from what I’ve read. If say Dez Bryant, Anthony Davis, or Mike Iupati was there and it was between one of them and Mays I would take one of those guys over him. But, if all those guys are gone and the draft goes anything like how everybody is predicting it, I would take Mays if he was still there.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
You like Mays and I don't, thats okay
If we pass on him, I’ll be happy and you’ll be disappointed and visa versa.
Actually if that scenario plays out where Mays is the only guys left from your list, I’d love to trade down and get an extra 2nd rd pick.
In Romo we Trust
That last part is where I disagree, but it's cool.
Actually if that scenario plays out where Mays is the only guys left from your list, I’d love to trade down and get an extra 2nd rd pick.
I won’t be mad if the Cowboys don’t draft him, but I wouldn’t pass on him if he was there.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
I didn't read the article where it mentioned the Cowboys having a 1st rd. grade on Mays
But I can’t help but see it as anything more than misdirection. I’m skeptical of most things I read this time of year.
Let the chips fall where they may
Somebody posted it on here in one of the threads.
I think it might have been at ESPN or something, I don’t really feel like looking for it.
Pitching coach Mike Maddux on Darren Oliver’s 0.00 ERA this spring:
"Economical work. He ain’t getting paid by the hour."
Rafael said so himself
One of his sources told him.
It’s still likely that it’s smoke that they delivered to him in purpose considering the size of this blog, but Rafael has a good track record with his sources.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
Smoke screening the guys on BTB?
I kinda doubt it.
In an interview Willie was ask if he was thinking about retiring. He paused for a moment, smiled and replied " I play music and golf, which one do you think I need to give up"?
Heh
Considering that guys from major media sites come in here to get their “inspiration” for their pieces… I don’t doubt that they could throw smoke in our direction…
Now, if you were being sarcastic, where’s the smiley, Sir?
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
What's the beef?
Mays will prolly not be around for pick 27.but if he is, and iaupti,pouncey,Thomas,and even Bryant are all gone, I would rather have mays be the pick than reaching on Allen or Burnett. Don’t get me wrong I love Burnett , but in the 2nd.I would rather have mays than another cb in the first,but that’s me, I think mayswill be a better pro than he was a college player, n he was pretty good.
by sdallen on Apr 14, 2010 8:22 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
No to Mays
I can’t believe some of the slobbering going on over this guy. Why on Earth would Dallas take him in the 1st rd?
From the Huddle Report
Taylor is a track star trying to convince people that he is a impact football player. He does not wrap up when he tackles, he lacks instincts and football intelligence, he has straight line speed but very slow lateral agility and his make up speed lacks effort. He needs the play in front of him at all times and that is why he is playing deep in a single safety system. Taylor does not take good angles and does not cover well at all. If you put Taylor up near the line of scrimmage he will fall for play action every time. I do not see him with a lot of interceptions because he does not have good hands and is always out of position to intercept the ball. This kid plays nothing like Troy Polamalu did when he was in college.
There is more, but it’s a pay site so I’ll leave it at that. Bottom line is Dallas needs a FS with coverage ability, and Mays ain’t it.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
This is exactly what I'm talking about up above.
If Mays is that bad of a player, I mean from this review they make him sound like absolute dog meat, if he’s obviously so terrible of a player why have the professional scouts given him a first round grade??
Here’s some other scouting reports;
"Mays has an outstanding combination of size, strength and athleticism for the safety position. He possesses excellent speed, quickness and burst for his size, which makes him a versatile player who could fit in several different schemes. He has good instincts to attack the alley as a run defender and can make plays in the passing game as a deep safety. He tends to be too aggressive with the ball in the air, trying to make the big hit instead of making a play on the ball."
"A physical specimen with a freakish combination of size, speed and athleticism. Tracks the ball-carrier well, fills fast and delivers good shots. Effective center fielder who uses his elite closing speed and agility to make plays all over the field. Special athlete who can play multiple positions and in different schemes at the next level."
Who’s right? I don’t know for sure, but more than a few professional scouts, including the ones who work for the Dallas Cowboys obviously think it’s closer to the ones I sighted then the one by the Huddle Report because they gave Mays a First Round Grade.
Gosselin's mock doesn't have Mays in the 1st rd
You ask a fair question, why do some teams have him graded as a 1st rd player? I don’t know, other than the his off the chart physical ability. There are a ton of bad reviews similar to the one I quoted from floating around. I would rather not see the Cowboys take a guy with as many question marks surrounding him as Mays has, especially in the 1st rd.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
by APerfectStar on Apr 14, 2010 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll tell you why
because Mays is a physical freak of nature. Athletically, he has no peers in this draft, however, being a tremendous athlete doesn’t equate to being a tremendous football player.
A great deal of being a good player is about instincts and awareness and Mays has absolutely none. He’s a great athlete playing football, nothing more and unfortunately some scouts and GMs get so caught up with the athleticism they overlook the instincts part when grading a player.
In Romo we Trust
So every professional talent scout in the NFL is so easily blinded by his measurables...
that they can’t see the obviousness of how absolutely terrible he is on the field. But you Terry, you can see it all!
Just rubbish.
Mays does not have the instincts of Top 10 and 20 picks like Berry and Thomas no doubt, but you’re acting like he’s Mr Magoo out there and that’s just silly. Most reports comment that he has good awareness, not elite like Thomas and Berry, but solid. At pick #27 any DB with elite instincts will be long gone. I’m not advocating a "we must draft Mays" strategy just that at #27 he might be the last first round grade available.
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