Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Indy 500: Coverage of the 'Greatest Spectacle In Racing'

The Value of the Return Game: Do the Cowboys Need a Return Specialist

The kick and punt return game may be one of the most under-appreciated aspects of football. An elite returner is a key weapon in the battle for field position as he is capable of getting the offense into a short field position with one play. Such is the game changing potential of an elite returner that some special teams coaches will avoid kicking to certain players altogether, more than happy to give up some hidden yardage in exchange for not risking a short field.

Our own Rafael Vela argued convincingly in his Dipping into the Special Teams Well Again? story that the Cowboys will continue looking for a kick returner.

Last season, the Cowboys' average kickoff return was 22 yards, which ranks a somewhat disappointing 20th in the NFL. The average punt return was 10.9 yards, good enough for an impressive 6th in the league.

Players like Josh Cribbs, Percy Harvin, DeSean Jackson and even the Cowboys' own Patrick Crayton produced electrifying, highlight-reel touchdown returns in the kicking game last year. But is a return man worth spending a draft pick on?

Star-divide

To answer that question, we need to understand the value that an elite returner brings to a team, and I'll use Expected Points Value (read up on the concept of EPV here) to do this. 

Kickoff Returns

To understand the value of an elite returner, I'll use the stats of the top 5 kick returners last year and compare them against the NFL average.

Last year, each team returned an average of 62 kicks for 22.6 yards each. To keep things simple, let's assume all kicks were were returned from the goal line, so the average starting field position would be 1st-and-10 on the return teams' own 23 yard line. The EPV for that down and distance is 0.51. The 62 kick returns would result in an average EPV for the kick return game of 31.6.

What I'll do now is take the average yards per kick return for the top five kick returners last year and multiply them with the NFL average 62 kick returns to see what the impact of an elite returner would be.

Top 5 Kick Returners 2009, min. 25 returns
PlayerTeam
Yards per kick returnAvg. starting field position
EPV/PlayReturnsExpected points
Clifton Smith TB 29.1 29 0.85 62 52.7
Johnny Knox CHI 29.0 29 0.85 62 52.7
Josh Cribbs CLE 27.5 28 0.78 62 48.4
Percy Harvin MIN 27.5 28 0.78 62 48.4
Courtney Robey NO 27.4 27 0.72 62 44.6
NFL Avg.
22.6 23 0.46 62 28.5

For those unfamiliar with EPV, think of it simply as the average Expected Points that a team would make from a given down-and-distance. In the table above, the six yard difference between Smith and Knox and the NFL average may not sound like a lot. However, if you think about it in more traditional terms, this could be one less first down required to score. In terms of EPV, those six extra yards per return translate into 24 extra points over the course of a season.

Just for perspective, the total EPV value of DeMarcus Ware's sacks last year was 22.1 and the total EPV value of Dallas' interceptions was 33.0. The return game with the same game-changing potential as sacks and interceptions? I've got to admit, even I was was surprised by the numbers.

Punt returns

Again, I'll use the top five punt returners from last year and compare them against the NFL average (37 punts, 8.5 yards per return) and I'll assume all punts are returned from the 20 yard line.

Top 5 Punt Returners 2009, min. 20 returns
PlayerTeam
Yards per punt returnAvg. starting field position
EPV/PlayReturnsExpected points
DeSean Jackson PHI 15.2 35 1.15 37 42.6
Wes Welker NE 12.5 32 1.05 37 38.9
Patrick Crayton DAL 12.1 32 1.0 37 37.0
Josh Cribbs CLE 11.9 32 1.0 37 37.0
Quan Cosby
CIN 11.9 32 1.0 37 37.0
NFL Avg.
8.5 29 0.85 37 28.2

An elite punt returner can add up the 10 Expected Points over the course of the season. Obviously, you won't see these exact numbers come true on the field, but as a means of determining the value of an elite return game, I believe they prove a point. If your kickoff and punt return game can result in an average of more than 30 extra points over the course of a season, the chances are good that you could win perhaps 2-3 more games than with an average return game.

Luckily for the Cowboys, Patrick Crayton came through and had an outstanding season as a punt returner last year. But as Raf pointed out, Crayton isn't getting any younger and isn't the fastest guy on the block.

The Cowboys already have an excellent kickoff and punting game. What they are still missing is The Return Man - an elusive speedster with exceptional quickness, great hands and cutback ability. In short, a game changer capable of scoring or creating short field positions every time he touches the ball. Is that guy already on the roster, or do we need to draft one?

Comment 100 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

A great return guy would certainly be a fine addition to the team.

But there’s no need to force it if there’s better non-return game players available when we’re on the clock.

Maybe they’ll need to scout some return guys from the undrafted list.

Thanks for the article OCC, and a big thanks for your last one ("Building Through the Draft"). I didn’t find time to comment on it but it was a great read.

Oh and FIRST!!!

by Luke. on Apr 16, 2010 7:41 AM CDT reply actions  

I thought this is what we picked up Titus Ryan for. I haven’t seen any footage on him, but his combine numbers as far as speed are very impressive. I think we should see what we can do with Ryan and Gordon. I’d particularly like Gordon to be able to fill this spot seeing as how many question our WR depth and our CB depth is pretty decent.

by BrettWreck on Apr 16, 2010 7:59 AM CDT reply actions  

Not sure Ryan makes the team yet

I don’t think many people have seen Titus Ryan play but hopefully he will have an outstanding training camp. I would still like to see if Kevin Ogletree can return kicks. Crayton is solid but its hard for me to consider him explosive.

by Antonio S on Apr 16, 2010 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

In reply to depth at CB and WR

they are both decent right now. But Crayton is on the wrong side of 30 and this will probably be Roy Williams last year with the "Boys.
At CB, Scandrick regressed a little last year, and made me think he may not be able to take over the starting position once TNew is gone. And as Raf pointed out in an earlier article, TNew’s contract may make him a cap casuality in 2011 if a new CBA agreement comes through.
So I’m with ya, I hope both Gordon and Ryan are able to provide some depth and/or return capabiltiy. And I think depth at both those positions should be addressed in draft and UDFA.

by TK19 on Apr 16, 2010 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

104 yard return for TD in CFL last year

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kghqsD8CCY

And agreed, I think they ought to see what he’s got before spending a draft pick for the main purpose of upgrading our Kick Returns.

If we can pick up a good player at a position of need that just so happens to be a good returner…great! If not, go for the player that’s going to contributing more for the majority of other plays on offense or defense.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Apr 16, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Awesome as always OCC

And I agree with Luke as well, there is no need to go out and draft a guy just for his return ability (e.g. Skyler Green). But as was pointed out in the comment section of Raf’s post, there are more than a few guys in this year’s draft who are intriguing prospects with return ability. Some guys who I think can contribute immediately on returns, but also can compete for back-up positions (and maybe eventually starter positions) are Jacoby Ford, Akwasi Owasu-Ansah and Antonio Brown.
Of those three I think Owasu-Ansah has the best chance to eventually become a starter, and Ford will probably be the best returner.
Man I can’t wait for the draft to begin!

by TK19 on Apr 16, 2010 8:06 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm hoping any DB or WR the Cowboys may draft next week

will have return skills to allow them to take over for Crayton. Other than McBriar our ST needs upgraded, especially in the return and kicking area.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 16, 2010 9:01 AM CDT reply actions  

I think we really need a RB / Return Guy hybrid

especially if we trade MB3. I really like Dexter McCluster from Ole Miss. I know he didn’t have the fastest 40 time, but the guy is shifty and an absolute waterbug. If he’s used as a return man and then a 3rd down back (think screens and open draws), I think he would be very valuable.

Jacoby Ford from Clemson is another guy in this mold. He ran a 4.28 (fastest 40 in the draft) and can be used in the same way.

Our late 2nd rounder might be too early for these guys, so we’d probably have to move up in the 3rd to get one.

is a fan of Derek Freaking Holland!

by ortonius on Apr 16, 2010 9:05 AM CDT reply actions  

Arenas, the CB from Alabama is another guy

He fills the need for a CB and a return man.

is a fan of Derek Freaking Holland!

by ortonius on Apr 16, 2010 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I sooo much wish JJ draft ths guy

to be a cowboy….. This is what this guy do.. He has cb skills but bc of his size he would be a liability. But he might make for a nickel back

There is no question his return game is where it is. He has a great work ethic too. I watch sum of his highlights he really do know how to find holes and make cuts..

Cowboys get this guy he will start from day 1.

by lostar2009 on Apr 16, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

My thoughts exactly

Great return man and a CB to groom over the next year or two

by DallasFanSince1983 on Apr 16, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Arenas would be not more than a 4th.

I think he’s limited to a dime cb.

Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Apr 16, 2010 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Walter Thurmond III

is a guy that would be our instant RS as well as he doesn’t have the limitations at CB that Arenas has

by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 16, 2010 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Question is

Can he stay healthy? Foot injury, pelvis injury and a season ending knee injury…ouch! Would this be the Terence Newman of ‘03-’06 or the Newman of ‘07-’08?

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Apr 16, 2010 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice posts

Interesting to not see Devin Hester anywhere.

Who is a great returner in the draft? I remember thinking Dante Hall would be good, but he ended up terriffic for few years.

by AustonianAggie on Apr 16, 2010 9:16 AM CDT reply actions  

Dez Bryant , Golden Tate...both excellent WR's and return guys...

No disresprect to OCC but putting Crayton in the same sentence as electrifying is laughable. The hole he had on the two returns my grandfather could’ve scored on. We need a WR with return abilties and I believe we will get a real good one in our first two picks.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 16, 2010 10:13 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm thinking we'll find our return guy

in the mid to later portion of the draft. I’d love to get Ford in the 4th or 5th rds.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 16, 2010 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm gonna have to agree with him

Crayton isn’t electrifying. I was, however, jumping up and down on his returns :)

Let the chips fall where they may

by sublimezg on Apr 16, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Seems you're outnumbered here, O.Cool :)

While electrifying isn’t the first word that comes to mind, and I do think we can improve in this area, I don’t think Crayton is such a failure as so many fans want to believe. He’s a north-south runner that rarely losses ground after the catch. Is that so horrible?

I guess I just don’t like the idea of drafting a guy ONLY for returns. Find great players first, and perhaps add to their draft position if they ALSO have return skills. But to go looking for a return guy sounds like something the Raiders might do.

Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)

by DalaiLuke on Apr 17, 2010 4:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Honestly, I was happy he made the play...

I would’ve been jumping up and down if he didnt score because I could’ve drove a semi through those holes. I credit the blocking more than Crayton. It’s not like he made any spectaular moves to score. The blocking was there and it was a matter of running up the seam.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 16, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pacman would've ran sideways and backwards instead...

But yeah top speed + head on straight would = awesome. Perhaps the reason Crayton is a good PR is that he KNOWS he can’t shake and bake anyone by running sideways and backwards…

by blee on Apr 16, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Electrifying?

I know he had ME on the edge of my seat throughout the second half of the season wondering if he was going to take it to the house or muff it again.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Apr 16, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Round 2....and Im saying 2 because Jerry is trading out of the first....

There are going to be some real good WR’s in the top of the 2nd round like Tate and Thomas…We would have to move up for Dez and Im not sure Jerry will that far. Broncos may target Dez now with Marshall gone.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 16, 2010 10:24 AM CDT reply actions  

Jerry is not trading up...not his MO...

not the trading up your talking about to get your boy Thomas who will be gone by #12. If Jerry drafts Tate in the top of the second or even Thomas who I’m starting to like also would make my draft. Whatever we do after is just gravy on the plate my friend….

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 16, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Demaryius Thomas?

Let the chips fall where they may

by sublimezg on Apr 16, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I guess I killed his name....yes...lol

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 16, 2010 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

He could be

but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he was drafted earlier, maybe even ahead of Dez.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 16, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

no freaking way...

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 16, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

it's possible..anything is in the draft, you should know that

Dez has actually been taken off a lot of teams boards due to the space between his ears.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 16, 2010 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

never say never I agree with you there...

but Dez is NFL ready as Thomas is somewhat green and would need some time…I would be happy with either

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 17, 2010 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thomas isn't green and wouldn't need time

and given Dez’s being an idiot, he’ll see the field much quicker…it will probably take a year for Dez to read the entire playbook.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 18, 2010 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

dont kid yourself if you think we aren't targeting a WR early.
Cowboys | Showing interest in D. Thomas
 
Calvin Watkins, of ESPNDallas.com, reports the Dallas Cowboys are interested in Georgia Tech WR Demaryius Thomas.

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl#ixzz0lNCizB3k

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 17, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cowboys are interested in a lot of players

Watkins is stating the obvious

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 18, 2010 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thats fine as long as we draft Dez or D. Thomas... :)

I will go on record and say we wont draft Earl Thomas or any of the top OL…Iuptai, Pouncey, etc., in the first round…

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 16, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm telling you right now

we have a greater chance of drafting a safety or OL at 27 than a WR, you can take that to the bank.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 16, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

no way...

there will be no safety there at 27 worth taking…the top two that have first round grades will be long gone. We have a need for a WR and PR. Tate, Thomas or even Dez will be on their radar. No way a safety is drafted in the first and I will go out on a limb and say OL will be out as well….take that to the bank..

OL will be taken in the second or third rounds….

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 16, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Everybody is an expert

How do you know the Boys only assigned two first round grades to safeties. How does anybody know who will be available at #27 – I don’t even know who the RAMS will draft – they haven’t signed anybody.

by birdness on Apr 16, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

our need for OL is much, much greater than WR

WR is probably maybe our 4th or 5th need heading into the draft.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 16, 2010 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree on OL Need

And this will be true even after selecting two OL; Dallas needs a massive infusion of new talent across the oline.

by Iowacowboy on Apr 16, 2010 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

It maybe, but there wont be a OL with a first round grade when we pick....

Free and Ball are the starters which it looks like, than we are looking for depth players….OL and safety are not such a huge need then. We need a WR that has PR abilities. There are more questions than some of you want to believe with this group. The only solid WR we have is Austin so how is WR not a need. Based on the WR visits they had over the last month it certainty looks like they will be targeting a WR early.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 17, 2010 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

not true

Crayton is better than solid and Olgetree will be better than any WR we could draft this year.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 18, 2010 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

You never know, Jerry just might trade up

and E Thomas will probably last to #12, I’d be shocked if a team took him in the top 11. In any event, drafting a WR isn’t our biggest need and actually its not really a need at all. We need to address other areas first. Now if the best player available at the top of second if we trade down is a WR, then thats who we should pick, but I’d rather see the OL and the safety position addressed early.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 16, 2010 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Philly and Miami may be up to some uncouth things

Parcells will likely want a 2nd rounder back (from the Marshall trade), and Philly would like to have a safety again. Berry is highly unlikely to drop below 10, but Thomas will probably still be there at 12. Miami trades its 12th (1,200) and 4th rounder (111th, 72) for Philly’s 24th (740) and 37th (530) pick. 1,272 to 1270, everybody’s happy, and we’ll have Thomas to worry about twice a year.

by One.Cool.Customer on Apr 16, 2010 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I see Philly drafting a CB over a safety

I’d be surprised if they didn’t take a guy like Wilson, McCourtey or Jackson over Thomas.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 16, 2010 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Perhaps, but the logic works equally well with Joe Haden

Everybody and their uncle sees Haden going to the 49ers in 13th. The Eagles will wet themselves if both Haden and Thomas are still there at 12.

by One.Cool.Customer on Apr 16, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fumbles

Just out of curiosity, did you include the impact of any turnovers in the calculation of EPV? Presumably, the impact of a couple of fumbles over a season would wipe out most of the gains in EPV from return yards.

by doomsdayreturns on Apr 16, 2010 10:28 AM CDT reply actions  

The EPV here is illustrative only

I took the official NFL return yards and return attempts, placed them on the goal line and 20 yard line respectively and calculated the EPV from these fictitious but not unreasonable assumptions.

Adding turnovers would of course significantly alter the EPV, as would adding TD returns.

by One.Cool.Customer on Apr 16, 2010 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Akwasi Owusu-Ansah would be my first choice.

I’m not big on grabbing a guy just to be a specialist unless he is just flat out ridiculous, and I don’t see any of those types in this draft. Get a positional player that happens to be a return guy not a return guy that really won’t produce at any other position. I personally don’t see anyone good enough in this draft to warrant a roster spot based on his return game alone.

Let the chips fall where they may

by sublimezg on Apr 16, 2010 11:18 AM CDT reply actions  

The guy got skills but....

I watch sum of his highlights …… they guy returns came from small schools i mean real small. Not saying he cant do it on the pro level but i dunno. I like that Arenas kid more…

Akawasi might do it as a KR and FS ..

by lostar2009 on Apr 16, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep, small school

Regardless of the competition it’s easy to see his awareness, vision, and balls skills are quite good. Not to mention he’s big and fast and can put moves on people. Lot’s of potential in this one.

Let the chips fall where they may

by sublimezg on Apr 16, 2010 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I saw him play live a few times

as his school, IUP, is located about 40 minutes from where I live and he was a man among boys. However, my theory with small school players is that if they can play, it doesn’t matter at what level of competition they played. See Romo, Ware and Austin.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 16, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Chad Jones

Returns punts and I know we were looking at him in the 2nd round. I think it would be a wise choice, I’ve seen him take it to the house a couple of times in the SEC.

by BrightEyesBri on Apr 16, 2010 12:11 PM CDT reply actions  

we don't need a guy like chad jones

we need a guy like burnett or allen, the returner could be by drafting a CB or WR

by ratware on Apr 16, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

no one

i think he’s good, but we need more a FS kinda guy, he doesn’t offer anything new to the team, i think will be like another LSU player; laron landry

by ratware on Apr 16, 2010 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Another issue...

he tends to launch himself at ball carriers. That’s gonna cost him in the NFL…either through injury to himself, penalties/fines for hitting a defenseless receiver/leading with the helmet or missed tackles.

Tends to be seen as more of a SS type at the NFL level due to size, hitting ability and average speed/coverage ability.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Apr 16, 2010 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

He was overrated,

but I don’t think he’s overrated now if he only brought a 5th. He’s worth that as top return man and a backup WR.

In an interview Willie was ask if he was thinking about retiring. He paused for a moment, smiled and replied " I play music and golf, which one do you think I need to give up"?

by DIRE WOLF on Apr 16, 2010 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is like overrrated your phrase for when you have nothing else to say?

He’s not overrated, no one overrates him.

How can you be overrated if everyone thinks that your a huge first round bust?

Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Apr 18, 2010 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

obviously the Dolphins rated him high

since they took him at #9

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 18, 2010 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ginn for a 5ht was a feaking steal....

He would give us the PR we need and let him battle for the 3rd WR spot. He would’ve bumped Crayton right out most likely..

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 17, 2010 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

You point out the bad, but the good outweigh..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX5R0oQYHMI

Crayton is not on the same page as this player.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 17, 2010 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's so good

The Dolphins dropped a 1st round draftee to the 49’ers for a 5th round pick three years after picking him.

Ginn was the Top 5 for highest percentage of dropped passes last season…worse than T.O. and RW, much worse than Crayton.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Apr 17, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dallas might do the samething with Spears.

In an interview Willie was ask if he was thinking about retiring. He paused for a moment, smiled and replied " I play music and golf, which one do you think I need to give up"?

by DIRE WOLF on Apr 17, 2010 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

And Spears is serviceable

…but not great.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Apr 17, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Spears is a better player than Ginn IMO.

I hope Dallas can get better than a 5th for Speras if they decide to trade him. I think Dallas should keep Spears for one more year if a 4th or 5th is the best they can get for him. He’s signed and the price is right.

In an interview Willie was ask if he was thinking about retiring. He paused for a moment, smiled and replied " I play music and golf, which one do you think I need to give up"?

by DIRE WOLF on Apr 17, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is not all on Spears

In Wade’s system, Spears is used for Run stopping and not pass rushing. He is still above average in that respect. I agree that we need to get better but we have bigger needs….

by Night_Train on Apr 19, 2010 2:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I hope if he goes that we get at least a 3rd for him. I just don’t know if it’d happen with him being a UFA after the season.

Ginn still has 3 years left on his rookie contract. His remaining contract- 2010: $1,035,833, 2011: $1,393,750, 2012: $1,801,667 (Voidable Year). That’s not too bad, even if he ends up mainly as a return specialist. Looks like the 49’ers got a good deal and the Dolphins gave him up for not much in return.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Apr 17, 2010 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

There was no reason to keep Ginn after acquiring Marshall...

Im not saying he was the greatest, but he is talented and very fast. He would’ve filled a void we have at PR and competed for the #3 position. Maybe a change is what he needed. Remember, Miami’s offense isn’t exactly a passing offense and Pennigton is not a strong arm QB which Ginn probably needs. Ginn may flurish in the SF offense with Crabtree and Davis.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 17, 2010 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

For his sake

…I hope you’re right. But, Alex Smith isn’t known as a top notch thrower either.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Apr 17, 2010 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Remember Chad Pennington wasn't actually Miami's QB last year...

….Except for the first two-and-a-half games. Chad Henne has a far better arm than Pennington and he was able to get Ginn the ball deep plenty but the problem is Ginn had to actually catch the d@mn thing; not his strong suit.

by MadMick on Apr 19, 2010 5:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

We Can't Afford a Returner Only

It would be very difficult to justify giving a roster spot to someone who could not be a postion player, even as a backup. With Buehler (unless he becomes the field goal kicker) and Lodoucier (sp?) – both of whom perform functions that are normally performed by someone else who is already on the roster, you already have 2 roster spots used for luxuries. If you use another for someone to be a returner exclusively, you are down yet another position player somewhere. As it is, that is why a player like Alan Ball, who backs up S and CB, is very important.

by ejhanlon on Apr 16, 2010 12:23 PM CDT reply actions  

not all these WR's are making the team...one is gone

my guess Hurd or Crayton are out the door at some point.

"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 17, 2010 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

EPV - Interesting

Reminds me of the kind of stuff they’re doing for baseball at fangraphs.com.

I would bet you could translate changes in EPV to Win Percentage Added like they do for baseball. Would love to see football stats starting to come of age the way baseball has with Sabermetrics and the like.

by deadrody7774 on Apr 16, 2010 12:43 PM CDT reply actions  

Return guys I like

Walter Thurmond III – Good return guy w/ no limitations as a CB, was productive at CB as well, only issue is health, if that checks out then great
Akwasi OA – a lesser RS but has tools to become a very good corner
Javier Arenas – dynamic RS but limitations as CB
I haven’t looked too much into the WR/RS prospects since we typically like a bigger receivers such as a Marcus Easley

by nicholas.rodriguez on Apr 16, 2010 6:42 PM CDT reply actions  

There are A LOT of assumptions being made here...

- assuming every kickoff return play starts on the end zone line.
- taking ‘averages’ of returns which can skew the data based on a few big returns in a sea of small ones
- the whole idea of EPV being shakey to begin win

The analysis also does nothing to seperate plays by competition. For example, if a returner gets two kick returns for touchdowns against a Detroit Lions team that was going to get beat anyway but gets whacked for no gain in every playoff game his “average” might look nice, but did he really legitimately contribute to helping a team get to the superbowl? I think not.

It’s an interesting topic to tackle and I do like a lot of OCCs articles, but this one has very spurious reasoning and conclusions.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Apr 16, 2010 7:08 PM CDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Dallas Cowboys blog for the SB Nation network. We talk Cowboys 24/7/365. Join the discussion but follow the community guidelines.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
X's and O's... More Basics... Cover 3...
Small
Cowboys players under 25 are more valuable than Eagles and Giants
Small
A LETTER TO MIKE JENKINS...
Kegbearer_small
Battles In The Trenches: Cowboys Athletic D-Linemen
Small
How much does pass rush matter?

Recent FanPosts

Demarco_murray_st_louis_rams_v_dallas_cowboys_baxpocve6rkl_small
Headed in the Right Direction...(Delusional or Reality)
Small
Beat the Pass Rush
Small
Romo and the Super Bowl Question
Ryan_2008_small
Is Tony Romo an Elite Quaterback?
Kegbearer_small
Battles In The Trenches: Cowboys 2012 Defensive-Fronts

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Editor

New_headshot_small Dave Halprin

Lead Writer

Brandon_small Brandon Worley

2012-05-23_14-43-22_987_small KD Drummond

Captain_small One.Cool.Customer

Contributing Writers

Emmittintro_small rabblerousr

Dallas_cowboys_nike_gloves_small Archie Barberio

Even_better_tom_small Tom Ryle

2011_07160126_small CotySaxman

Moderators

Ns_08bstockb-thumb-200x185_small scottmaui

Sean_lee_small NYHorn