The VRR: A Cowboys RFA Update; Redskins Have Contacted Flozell Adams
Many of you have probably seen that Marcus Spears signed his restricted tender yesterday. Does this mean he will stick with the team another year? Or does this further solidify his trade value?
Spears is just the second RFA to sign his tender with the Cowboys. C/G Cory Procter was the first.
Miles Austin and Gerald Sensabaugh are the two biggest names that sit atop Dallas' unsigned RFA list. These players have until April 15 to sign their tenders. For Austin, the lack of a long-term contract could perhaps be what is keeping him from working out with the team at Valley Ranch.
From a business standpoint, Austin’s decision makes sense. As a restricted free agent, this is one way for him to create a little leverage. It worked a couple of springs ago for Marion Barber, who avoided Valley Ranch as a restricted free agent until he cashed in on his lone Pro Bowl campaign with a seven-year, $45 million contract.
From a football standpoint, it’s a significant concern if Austin continues to stay away, especially during organized team activities and minicamps. He’s a receiver with less than a full season of starting experience who still has plenty of potential for development. And it’d be ideal for his offseason training to be supervised by the Cowboys’ strength and conditioning staff, especially given his history of nagging injuries.
More VRR after the jump.

So where is Austin? He is in California working out with a personal trainer while the two sides are hopefully working out a long-term deal. Keeping fingers crossed.
Austin has remained in touch with his coaches, so the move isn't necessarily seen as one of defiance. It could be that he simply prefers to follow a training regimen of his own choosing this year, as some other players have done.
Running back Marion Barber, for instance, is working out at the performance center of former Olympic sprinter Michael Johnson, in nearby Plano.
Exclusive rights free agent Steve Octavien, who tied for fourth with 12 ST tackles last season, also signed his tender yesterday.
Rob Phillips lists the Cowboys' remaing RFAs here.

It has been reported that three teams have expressed interest in Flozell Adams. Evidently, the Redskins are one of those teams.
Redskins GM Bruce Allen said on Sirius Radio Tuesday that the Redskins have contacted the agent of former Dallas LT Flozell Adams. The Redskins currently have no true left tackle on the roster since the retirement of Chris Samuels. Adams was cut by the Cowboys on Friday.
Randy Galloway has some sources that rate Leonard Davis as having the worst '09 performance of the Dallas O-linemen.
For this kind of information, I turned, as usual, to The Guy Who Watches Film. But for backup help, I also went to another guy who broke down the film of the 18 meaningful games of the 2009 season.
Their combined opinions:
Poorest overall performance of '09 came at right guard, where Leonard Davis resides.
Next poorest involved center Andre Gurode.
Worst one game of the season belonged to right tackle Marc Colombo in Minnesota, but he was otherwise OK before he was injured at mid-season.
Best overall offensive lineman: Kyle Kosier at left guard.
Best pleasant surprise, of course, was Doug Free as Colombo's replacement at right tackle.

Keith Brooking expressed his thoughts on the Donovan McNabb trade.
"The way we dominated them, obviously McNabb didn’t play his best, but they were very predictable," Brooking said, per ESPN.
"We knew exactly what was coming on every play. A lot of that didn’t have to do with Donovan McNabb."
For some reason, Brooking's comments are getting a rise out of some folks in Philly. Oh well, let the trash talking begin!
"That kind of irked me a little bit," said Celek, who caught 76 passes for 971 yards and eight touchdowns last season. "I don’t think they knew exactly the plays we were running when we were running them. You know, they played better than us in those games, and I’ll give them credit. They did do a good job. But for him to say that, I totally disagree with him. "I tell you what, I can’t wait to play him next year."
Celek got a little smart-mouthed when asked what he'd say to Brooking when they first saw each other on the field next season.
"I can’t say that on radio, guys," Celek said. "Every time we went down there, you see him trying to get the crowd riled up on that big jumbotron. It gets me going. I can’t wait to play him again."

According to the National Football Post, Dallas is one team that shown interest in Louisiana-Monroe's DE/OLB Aaron Morgan.
Morgan is a sleeper who's gaining some buzz in NFL scouting circles.
MonroeHe is a 'tweener outside linebacker-defensive end who was named first-team All-Sun Belt Conference.And his impressive workout numbers stack up favorably with many of the top defensive end-linebacker draft prospects. The 6-foot-4, 242-pounder has run between 4.68 and 4.72 seconds in the past. He bench presses 375 pounds.
Two HOF Dallas QBs reflect upon Texas Stadium, which will be imploded on April 11.
Roger Staubach, Cowboys quarterback from 1969 to 1979, on the implosion "At the end of the day, the building was special because of a lot of great moments." Troy Aikman, quarterback from 1989 to 2000, on the stadium's mystique "For those of us that like the Super Bowl wins, right now the stadium is a link to them."
DC.com features Orlando Scandrick in its "Roster Rundown" series.


If you haven't done so yet, or just want to again, donate to the BTB 2010 Training Camp Fundraiser. Live updates! Play-by-play breakdowns! In-depth analysis! Help out by clicking below.
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I read somewhere
that if the Skins were to sign Flo, they might move him to RT. Don’t know how much cred that has … but I’d love to see Spencer fly right by him!
Would Flo use his patented
trip move on us? I can hear the Giant fans now.
by CowboyCurtis on Apr 7, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
i thought the same haha
i’m seeing demarcus giving him a dissapoinment look, like c’mon man we used to be folks haha, and flozell just staying serious or with that cold-angry look on his eyes
by the way why the cowboys didn’t thought about putting him at RT? who thinks he would be a good fit at RT?
Galloway's source is Broaddus I think.
I was listening to show a few weeks ago and your list is the same that Broaddus’ had. I put a lot in what Broaddus says, the man knows his stuff.
In an interview Willie was ask if he was thinking about retiring. He paused for a moment, smiled and replied " I play music and golf, which one do you think I need to give up"?
by DIRE WOLF on Apr 7, 2010 12:05 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
that said
We have all been clamoring for a replacement for kosier, maybe we are actually looking for Biggs replacement. What has he played in his contract so far? 3 years? He is probably trade, or cut-able. Lupati, and pouncey just became that much more desirable.
27th pick lupati
2nd rd trade up to get pouncey
Sign atogwe to hold us over on safety.
I won’t go on, but I would be happy with this scenario.
by TONYINCC on Apr 7, 2010 12:16 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Oh GO ON!
:}
Maybe some of the posters who think G/C are wasted picks in the 1st can think about this before we go for another WR or the like.
How much did the C (Stepnowski) and Guards (Larry Allen, Nate Newton) contribute to 3 SB wins in the 90s? Mucho Much, that is how much. Yes I am muching it up for effect.
Can get interior line in the 4th and develop them, yes and they may not pan out like a top prospect would, ever. teh draft is a crapshoot so take the best odds you can get and go 1st round OL.
funny thing
I heard emmitt talking about how the 90s boys credit was given mostly to the triplets, but how they viewed as a team accolade since without those guys you mentioned, things could have been much, much, mucho (your effect) different.
by TONYINCC on Apr 7, 2010 12:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't remember much
Which one(s) of those 90s OL were drafted in the first round? Sure Iupati or Pouncey would be acceptable picks put there may be better guys available. How big is the gap between first round Iupati and third round (insert OG name here)? Likewise if Pouncey and Iupati are both gone, there’s no way Jerry should go interior O-line at #27.
none were drafted in the 1st rd
Allen was the highest drafted OL in the 2nd rd, Stepnoski and Erik Williams were drafted in the 3rd rd. Nate Newton and Mark Tuinei were UFAs.
In Romo we Trust
True
But as RAF has pointed out, there has been serious inflation at the OT and by association, the entire OL draft status in the last 10 years.
Would 4 OT have went in the top 10 – 12 in 92 like we expect this year?
Probably not.
And I agree with birdness.
If Lupati, Pouncey, and the top 4 OT are all gone we should NOT reach.
I like Vladimer (can’t spell last name) OT in the 2nd, and John Jerry OG in the 3rd if these pet cats are gone.
But if all the OL talent is gone we should be able to get one of the 1st Round grades who dropped like S Mays, or thomas.
DE Jared Odrick, etc
Just saying if the board breaks right we have a chance to get a Blue Chip addition to the OL and we should “Pounce” on the opportunity
Muscle wins over the course of a season most of the time
I'm a BPA guy so I agree
although I’m not down with Mays, he has bust written all over him.
In Romo we Trust
I doubt he's there.
There are a few mocks that have Saffold going in the very late 1st/very early 2nd.
Rabid and luvin' it
"Best overall offensive lineman: Kyle Kosier at left guard."
this is kind of surprising. he’s considered the most eligible for replacement, partly because of his age/contract, but also I think because he never gets enough credit for his performance on the field. The other guys make the pro-bowl on name. Kosier just does his job. Before ‘08, he was often called the weak link on the line, and then when we lost him we found out how important he was (and how weak our backups were). But we still don’t really appreciate him as much as we should, apparently.
if Pouncey falls to us...
seeming less likely, but that would be a very solid first round pick… maybe even worth moving up a few spots for.
But I wonder what their criteria are
I certainly think that Kosier is the most consistent and technically sound. But in the games where he faced power rushers, he seemed to get pushed around a lot. Davis is the least consistent – one play he’s a monster and the next play he whiffs. Colombo is less inconsistent but still mistake prone in pass protection. Gurode is hard for me to tell but he seems to get high marks from others.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Flo was a whirlybird on speed rushers.
He spins any faster and he’s gonna need a flight plan.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
If Flozell Adams had been told last offseason that in one year it was possible that he was going to protect Donovan McNabb’s blindside on the Redskins, think he would have believed it?
Before you ask why I'm a fan of both the Cowboys and Jets, I'll just say the answer is complicated and that it just turned out that way.
2009-2010 Dallas Mavericks: 57-25 LOVING THE TRADE!
LOL!
Oh, how the world turns.
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 7, 2010 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Good point! How bizarre...
And one year? how about one month?!!
Stranger things have happened, but Flozell’s certainly had an interesting month…
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
Flozell blocking for McNabb, who will be handing off to Larry Johnson, Willie Parker, and Clinton Portis, and throwing to Santana Moss. Too bad it’s not 2004.
If they sign TO, they can claim the off season championship of older veteran players, a frankenstein's monster collection.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
2011 SuperBowl: Redskins vs Raiders
The Rematch!
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 7, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a good long-term move for you guys
The Eagles may take a drop in performance for a year or two, but no way they could give him a new contract after next season, so they might as well get some value…
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
the question is: How MANY years have you been looking to move past McNabb?
He’s been getting thrown under the bus by Philly fans since before TO.
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
This year was the first. I'll give you a more long-winded explanation of my reasoning...
I wasn’t looking for him to be traded because I think he can’t play… not at all. I like McNabb, and he’ll give the Redskins a few good years of QB play.
With both Kolb and McNabb entering the final year of their contracts, really the only option was to trade one of them now and get value in return, rather than lose one of them next offseason for absolutely nothing. McNabb is 33. Kolb is 25, and obviously the front office, coaching staff, and the players think the world of Kolb. The clear odd man out in this situation was McNabb. With the entire NFL knowing this, it’s flat out amazing that the Eagles got the 37th pick in what Charley Casserly is calling the best draft class since 1983, plus a 4 that could very well become a 3 next year. That’s what you call highway robbery. Thanks Redskins.
Was McNabb the best QB in the history of the franchise? Sure, I guess. Can he still play? Yeah, I’d say he’s somewhere around the 10th-12th best QB in the league, which is fine and good… but again, he’s 34 in November.
The Eagles now have the youngest team in the NFL (I think), which also happens to be plenty talented, and 11 picks in this draft. If you ask me, this team is set up beautifully for another long run of seriously contending for a Championship every year for the next decade.
Nobody’s “throwing McNabb under the bus.” It’s just the best move for the team.
only if Kolb is the real deal
and that is a really big IF. Having a tremndously talented roster means nothing if your qb isn’t a player.
In Romo we Trust
That's fair...
I happen to be a big believer, but I’m obviously just going off what I saw out of Kolb in 2 career starts and what I’ve been hearing from his coaches/teammate. But yes, it’s an “if.”
Oh crap… I’m legally obligated to at least argue with you somehow. Ummm… uhhhhh… Got it! It’s a “small IF,” not a “big IF.”
Not legally obligated, but morally.
Besides, coming to BTB and thinking someone somewhere isn’t going to bag on the Eagles is just plain…well, silly Philly. Whoever said it earlier is right though. It’s time to move on from that moniker. He’s long gone dude. Can we get a Sack McNabb moniker?
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Even if Kolb Sucks
Philly can find another QB . . . there team is looking strong long term
that is completely false
top tier QBs are rare and take forever to find sometimes. just ask the Bills, Redskins, Raiders, Bears, the list goes on and on. So i have no idea how Klob will do, but if he aint the real thing, the Eagles are in trouble. Mike Vick will not be the answer either. The days of a mediocre QB like Brad Johnson wining the SB are over. You need a top 10 QB at least to win one now. The last winners have been: Brees, Rothles, E. Manning, P. Manning, Rothles, Brady, Brady. That aint going to change either with the rule changes creating such an advantage for the pass. You need a QB.
what makes you think that??
If finding franchise qbs was easy, every team would have one.
In Romo we Trust
here's my contention tho Dawk
McNabbums had one year left on his contract. it’s not like you’re getting out from under a 4 year extension. After all the guy has done for your team and city, with little to no support offensively, with westbrook the exception(and 1 year of TO) didn’t he deserve a chance to go out after having his full contract honored? and on top of that, he IMO deserved a chance to work with all the talent you’re guys had finally assembled around him. he has 4 legitimate weapons, 5 if you count the FB. And the one year he did have a legitimate “threat” at wideout, he took you guys to the top of the hill. Add to that that his play has not dramatically diminished at 33, i think it’s a bad move.
As you said, Kolb is only 25. he’s been learning under a future HOF for years, that can only help him. 26 is still young. i just didn’t get the move. short term wise anyway.
His contract will be honored by the Skins
Good teams cut ties with players when they are no longer useful. It happens all the time. One of Jerry’s most endearing traits as an owner, his loyalty to his players, is also one of his most maddening as GM.
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
I understand he's still getting his money
i just would’ve liked to see his team treat him better overall. b/t the trade rumors, the false sense of job security by Reid, having him hanging in the wind day in and day out with a new rumor, you just don’t do that to someone who’s had more success than any other franchise QB you’ve ever had.
You do if you think it is time to move on, as the Philly Brass obviously did
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
you don't think there was a better way to go about it?
Take for instance that they did this to one of your greats, say Emmitt. Everyday a new rumor about Emmitt going to this team, to that team, everyday Emmitt having to peek around corners when he went out in order to avoid media scrutiny, everyday his agent saying Emmitt is fully committed to the Cowboys, etc. Then the coach comes out and first says Emmitt is absolutely our RB next year, then a month later saying we are actively shopping him. Would you believe that to be fair to your greatest RB?
There were other ways to handle it IMO. B/t this treatment, the way the fans treated(and still do) him, i would feel as if my face were spit in if i was D-Mac.
The rumors began flying when Andy Reid said he was listening to offers for “all 3 QB’s” roughly around the 2nd or 3rd day at the NFL Owners Meeting, which would be approximately March 23rd. They traded him April 4th. So McNabb had to read rumors about his potential landing spot for a week and a half. The deal was done relatively quickly, quite frankly. This is the NFL – It’s a business. And McNabb made over $100 million in Philadelphia. He was treated just fine.
There were other ways to handle it IMO.
So let’s hear it… What would you have done?
Simple
don’t answer the question about who he’s listening to offers to. why does he have to answer that question? Anyone with half a brain can read b/t the lines of that statement. he really was saying “i’m listening to offers for McNabb and Vick.” They’ve banked there whole future on Kolb – do you really think they would move him now, when he was at his closest to being the starter?
One other thing that irks me is when people comment on the money a player makes, as if that okays any treatment that said player then receives. yes he’s a very rich man because of the Eagles. The Eagles FO are also much richer because of McNabbums, through revenue gained from #5 jersey sales, tickets sold, concessions, etc. it’s not like the Eagles gave him 100 mil and said we’ll just be 100 mil broker. they probably earned 1 billion of that 100 million investment.
There is such a thing as respect in this world. there is not a price tag you can put on it either. i said the same thing when the Knicks uncerimoniously shipped Ewing out too. you can’t pay a man enough to spit on him as he walks out the door.
don’t answer the question about who he’s listening to offers to. why does he have to answer that question?
That’s it? That’s all you’d do differently?
Let’s not go that route… meaning… Let’s not say what you would do “differently.”
Pretend you’re the Philadelphia Eagles, and you’ve decided that the best thing for your organization is to trade McNabb – Create your own customized scenario on how you would have handled it.
For the purpose of this convo that is what i'd do
i’m not close enough to the situation to say i’d do A, then B, followed by C. but for a start, that’s what i’d do. and to further that, i would have not made the hollow guarantee for Mcnabb as the QB next season.
Think about how many trades in our lifetimes for any team, not just our own, that we either didn’t hear of til it broke, and you saw it on the scroll of ESPN, or the local news, or whatever, or heard about it a day or two before it was completed. do you think those teams had oppty’s to let the cat out of the bag beforehand, but chose not to? it can be done, it has been done, it wasn’t done, in this situation. and that, along with the insanity of trading inside the division, are my main problems with the trade.
So you can sit and criticize the Eagles for being heartless jerks in the handling of the trade, but you don’t have a plan of what you would have done in the same situation? Loud and clear.
There are times I wish the Cowboys front office was as cold and heartless as Philly
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
He’ll have his full contract honored – The Redskins will pay the final year.
But that’s sort of beside the point. Had the Eagles kept him this year, are they better at the QB position for one season? Sure, I’d lean toward yes. But he’d still be gone after the 2010 season, at which point you lose him for absolutely nothing. Instead, the Eagles got some serious value in return – The 37th pick in this draft is as good as gold, plus they were able to squeeze an extra 4th rounder next year out of the Redskins that can become a 3 in McNabb reaches modest goals.
As far as your point about letting him play with the young, talented weapons that the Eagles have assembled, I’m totally uninterested in that, and would be furious if my team’s front office made sentimental decisions like that. Besides, he had a chance to play with those guys last year.
And while we’re discussing the young talent, let’s take a quick look at the ages of those guys…
McCoy – 21
Jackson – 23
Maclin – 21
Celek – 25
Ingram – 24
Avant – 26
Weaver – 27
Peters – 28
Herremans – 27
Jackson – 29
N. Cole – 25
Justice – 25
…and the Eagles have 11 draft picks.
In my own humble opinion, I’m ready for Kolb (25) to start playing and growing with these guys as soon as humanly possible. Will there be some growing pains? Undoubtedly. But I’m ready endure those growings pains now (which would come eventually anyway), and get on with the long term health of the franchise immediately.
That’s the difference between teams like the Eagles and the Redskins. The Redskins go “all in” every year with a pair of 8’s. The Eagles are smart enough to know when to take a small step back, in order to make an eventual big leap forward.
If Klob is bad he will waste all those young players prime years
You all are betting alot on the dude. But I aint going to venture a guess on how he will do. I am just saying there is lots of eggs in that basket.
i think you're in essence giving up a season for 2 draft picks
that’s pretty costly IMO. now it’s all out the window if Kolb is as advertised and takes you immediately back to the playoffs. but from my standpoint i’m looking at the moves you guys have made this year and thinking your are at least a year away from being good again.
I’m not sure I agree that we’re throwing away the 2010 season. For all we know Kevin Kolb could be better than McNabb… right now. For the record, I don’t particularly buy that, but it’s absolutely possible. So far, I’ve heard ONE player on the Eagles… just one… comment that the Eagles should have kept McNabb (Leonard Weaver). Every other player I’ve heard quoted (DeSean Jackson, Brent Celek, Jeremy Maclin, etc) fired up about Kolb becoming the starter. Take that for what it’s worth, of course, but from an Eagles’ fan perspective it’s encouraging. I fully expect them to compete for the division next year.
But here’s the thing… Kolb is going to have to take over the reigns eventually. So what if that happens to be next year instead of this year? We’d essentially be putting off those growing pains for a year, and 2011 would become that “throw away” year instead. In that scenario, you don’t get 2 valuable draft picks, you don’t have that extra year of Kolb developing repore with his young weapons, you potentially stunt Kolb’s growth, and you slog through the 2010 season with a QB that knows full well that he’s a lame duck. The time is now.
Kolb will go through his growing pains just like most qbs
It took Romo 3 years to finally come into his as an elite qb. Playing qb in the NFL is the most difficult position in all of sports, and really the only way a player learns and gets better is by playing and gaining experience.
In Romo we Trust
that is your best reply?
and your boy’s playoff record this year? :) oops, sorry to mention it
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
Hey, just saying he’s not “elite.” I don’t care what the passer ratings say – 1 career playoff win does not merit “elite” status.
Sure, I'd put him somewhere in the 6-10 mix...
That’s not what I consider “elite.” If we’re throwing out the “elite” moniker willy-nilly, then OK… he’s elite.
Im no Mcnabb fan by any means, but the Eagles organization disrespected the man
Andy Reid praises he is still a good QB, but trades him within the division. Kinda talking through boths sides of his mouth, ya think? You dont trade a QB with something to porve within the division, never…they play them twice a year. Two games can mean going to the playoffs or staying home. If you dont think this gives McNabb extra motivation to beat the crap out of the Eagles your crazy…
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
The Redskins had the best offer on the table. They took it. The Eagles are worried about the Eagles, not the Redskins.
Also, if there’s one team out there that knows the strengths and weaknesses of perhaps any one player in the entire league, it would be the Eagles’ knowledge of Donovan McNabb. I think they’ll have a gameplan of how to attack him.
Your own boy Dawkins said the other day he was disrepsected even...
Andy is going to get killed in the media if Mcnabb torches the Eagles this year….I actually think the Redskins will have a better record than the Eagles if they can get there OL in order. Well see how this plays out, but I think it was a big mistake by the Eagles organization. I understand they needed to make the move, but not within the division. They should’ve taken less compensation to get him out of the division. They dont owe McNabb anything. They certainily didn’t give Dawkins that chance and he was a more popular player….
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Yup, and as you can see from my screen name I’m about as big a Dawkins fan as you’ll find, but his comments are dumb.
I actually think the Redskins will have a better record than the Eagles if they can get there OL in order.
Care to wager on that?
They should’ve taken less compensation to get him out of the division.
Hypothetical situation – Let’s say the 49ers have the next best deal on the table. It’s for their 3rd rounder. Would you take that deal instead on the 37th pick in the draft and 3 or 4 next year?
well...
Would you take that deal instead on the 37th pick in the draft and 3 or 4 next year?
To get him out of the division….yes. I still think he has some left in the tank. Like I said this could come back to haunt them. Draft picks are a gamble to begin with so who knows how this pick will work out. For the Eagles sake it better be like hitting the lottery because that pick will be linked to Mcnabb for a long time, a bad memory in fact if Mcnabb haunts the Eagles for the next 3 or 4 years…..
Care to wager on that?
I just may….If Shannhan gets his guy Marshall like its rumored and depending on the draft I just might take that bet…
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Would you take (the 49’ers 3rd round pick) instead of the 37th pick in the draft and a 3 or 4 next year?
To get him out of the division….yes.
Wow… just… wow.
For the Eagles sake it better be like hitting the lottery because that pick will be linked to Mcnabb for a long time, a bad memory in fact if Mcnabb haunts the Eagles for the next 3 or 4 years….
Off the top of your head… quickly… who did the Broncos draft with the pick they received in return for Jay Cutler. And even if you can think of it, exactly how many times did you hear that player’s name linked to Jay Cutler?
I just may….If Shannhan gets his guy Marshall like its rumored and depending on the draft I just might take that bet…
I’ll even spot you a win. Let’s do something right now.
Your comparing McNabb to Cutler....really?
!2 yr vet, maybe even a HOF inductee someday according to some…really? Knowing Philly and I live pretty close to it and have alot of Philly fans they will be keeping an eye on who they draft with that pick.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Yeah, I’ll be keeping an eye on that pick, too. Every Eagles fan will. It’s a high pick. So let’s say it’s a linebacker – That linebacker will be compared to McNabb his entire career? KOLB will be compared to McNabb, the way Rodgers was compared to Favre, the way Steve Young was compared to Joe Montana, the way Brian Griese was compared to Elway, and so on. Nobody is even going to think about the comparison between McNabb and whoever we draft with a 2nd round pick. That’s just nuts.
Happens all the time...if you are a fan you should understand..
They were talking about this very question on Sirus Radio…just from the radio chatter most feel trading McNabb to Washington was a mistake. I understand alot of Philly fans wanted him out, but those very same didn’t want him going to a division rival. Deep down as much as you or any Eagle fan wants to admitt the player still has something left in the tank. For your sake he better not have the games of his career against the Eagles..
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
So let’s get back to that whole Redskins will have a better record that the Eagles wager. Like I said… I’ll even spot you a game. Are you still in on that, or was that just sort of something you felt comfortable writing, but don’t really believe it?
No, I want the Eagles. I think Kolb is going to do pretty well
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
I can make my pic cover the reply link
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
Dang it!
my sig screwed it up :(
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
Dawk, Romo never won or lost a playoff game
The Cowboys did. QBs can be elite regardless of their team’s success, they cannot be judged solely on their team’s performances or Marino would never be a HOFer.
Romo’s numbers are elite and you can’t deny that
In Romo we Trust
His playoff stats aren't bad
and the fact that he doesn’t have great stats in the playoffs doesn’t mean he isn’t an elite qb.
Manning has average playoff stats as well, but yet you claim he’s elite
In Romo we Trust
I disagree
Manning is a better qb and passer of the football, but he definitely isn’t a better football player, Romo has him beat in the department in spades.
When’s the last time Manning made a play when the pocket broke down and had to make a play on his own….I’ll tell you, never.
Romo does it all the time.
In Romo we Trust
Manning gets the ball out so quick, that it’s extremely rare that he even needs to escape from the pocket.
If you want to see how he reacts to pressure,
just check out any of his playoff games in NE … or hell, look what the Cowboys did to him last time he was in town … Manning’s a bit of a paper tiger.
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
Romo actually has a quicker release than Manning
but nice try, one of your better attempts. Fact is when the pocket breaks down, Manning just falls down into the fetal position like the little bitch that he is.
In Romo we Trust
How would you define elite, Dawk?
You mentioned Manning by name, yet he was 0-3 in the post season before he tasted his first playoff victory. Romo was just 0-2.
Through Manning’s first four seasons he had a .500 W/L record. Romo’s is .691.
Like the Marino analogy referenced earlier, this is why team success isn’t an accurate measure of individual ability.
Here’s how ColdHardFootballFacts.com defines “elite:”
His career passer rating of 94.7 (also his rating this year) is third all time. Here’s the top five in career passer rating:
- Steve Young – 96.8
- Peyton Manning – 95.4
- Tony Romo – 94.7
- Kurt Warner – 93.5
- Tom Brady – 93.4
Now look at the top five in career passing yards per attempt:
- Otto Graham – 8.63
- Sid Luckman – 8.42
- Norm Van Brocklin – 8.16
- Tony Romo – 8.14
- Steve Young – 7.98
Tony Romo is not only in the top five all time, he’s the most prolific passer since Norm Van Brocklin retired at the end of the 1960 season. He’s also one of just two players who appears on both lists, with Steve Young.
Look like Romo ranks among some pretty elite company to me.
Screwed up the quote
That excerpt from ColdHardFootballFacts.com I refrenced should continue up until just before that last sentence.
That is one helluva impressive ostrich impression.
Just to clarify: YPC is meaningful when comparing the stats of TEs, but passing YPA (not to mention career passer rating) is irrelevant when compaing QBs?
Totally relevant. Not dismissing his YPA.
That said, he turns 30 this month and he has 1 career playoff win. In my opinion, he’s not elite. I reserve the word “elite” for the absolute cream of the crop, which Romo is not. If we’re throwing “elite” around willy-nilly, then OK… he’s elite. Happy?
No, maybe not. I agree to that. Marino was certainly an elite QB, and he never won one. But still… Romo has 1 career playoff win.
Dawk, you like this "one stat" assessment stuff, huh?
Witten didn’t have many TDs this year, therefore your boy better. Romo knocks the cover off the stats, but you prefer to find only one stat and hold on to it for dear life. Stats can be so lovable sometimes, eh? :)
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
Does anyone expect an Iggles troll to apply the elite label to our QB. We all know Romo is elite, BiDawk wishes his team had a Romo, even if he won’t admit it.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
Dawk you wouldn't
call Romo elite if he won 3 SBs. I think Romo is a good QB, but elite not yet. I hope by the time he’s done he’s considered an elite QB with some SB trophies and gets in the HoF.
In an interview Willie was ask if he was thinking about retiring. He paused for a moment, smiled and replied " I play music and golf, which one do you think I need to give up"?
Wow, starting to feel like a broken record here… If Romo can do what Manning has done, I’d consider him elite. But he hasn’t done jack.
Manning has been one and done six times.
And piggybacked his way to a Super Bowl title in a postseason in which he had 3 TD passes and eight turnovers.
He doesn’t even belong in the conversation of truly clutch postseason performers like Montana, Brady, Warner or Aikman.
Romo accomplished more than Manning
in the same point in their career starts, so if Romo hasn’t done jack, neither did Manning.
In Romo we Trust
I wouldn't call a career 94 qb rating choped liver
You can’t name me too many qbs that have done better with at least 1500 career attempts.
That’s elite my friend.
In Romo we Trust
Elite

BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 8, 2010 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Again why is Peyton Manning god amongst QB's?
I’m sure his hefty passing yards in the Super Bowl gave you a bulge in your tight green body suit but all those fancy passing yards were ultimately hollow. The Colts only mustered 17 points against a pretty mediocre Saints defense and one of their TD drives was almost entirely on the back of the running game.
Peyton Manning is not a great big game or “elite” QB either if Big Game=playoffs. Oh sure, he was great against the Jets’ hottest defense in the league, but what did he follow that up with? Another patented ho hum performance against the Saints in the Super Bowl.
Also can you guess how many playoff wins Brees had in his first eight years in the league?
Peyton Manning is not a great big game or "elite" QB either if Big Game=playoffs.
He’s immensely talented, he’s basically a coach on the field, and he’s done a whole hell of lot more in his career than Romo, playoffs included. You’re not really comparing Romo to Manning, are you? I’m not even a Manning fan, but I’m not blind either. He’s the best QB in the game.
Also can you guess how many playoff wins Brees had in his first eight years in the league?
Don’t know. 2? 1? 0? It’s low – I know that much. And back then I probably wouldn’t have considered him to be elite either. If Romo can do what Brees has done since, then sure, I’ll call Romo elite. But he hasn’t.
I should've prefaced that by stating.....
I agree Romo hasn’t actually accomplished squat yet.
Manning’s the best regular season QB in the game? Either the notion that “postseason performance is how a QB is truly measured” is equally applied to all guys or it shouldn’t be a fallback to measure certain players.
Of the forty starting QB’s to appear in the postseason in the last twenty years, Manning’s ’07 Championship postseason ranks 34th in QB rating and tied for dead last in TD pass/turnover ratio.
In terms of actual postseason performance, Manning is several cuts below Tom Brady, Kurt Warner and considering that Drew Brees was basically perfectly last season probably even him.
Was McNabb truly elite when you factor in that half his playoff wins came against woefully deficient Bucs (Shaun King led) Falcons (Mike Vick-led and 8-8 Vikings teams?
Fair enough but McNabb piled up a bunch of playoff wins..
….In a watered down NFC. While his Eagles did beat the Bucs several times in the playoffs, those were the one-sided Bucs team with no offense to speak of. Lo and behold when the Bucs finally had anything resembling an offense, McNabb wet the bed and threw the game away.
Now that’s not to say that McNabb isn’t a borderline Hall-of-Famer if Jim Kelly and Warren Moon have gotten in. But in the playoff rounds (NFC Championship and Super Bowl) that really mattered, McNabb has a pretty dubious track record of taking care of the football himself.
As i've said
if Kolb comes in and is Aaron Rodgers, then all goes out the window, and your organization will be proven right. me personally, i don’t like giving up a season period. I just don’t see it as slogging through a season with a fully capable QB. i mean 3500 yards, 22 TD’s to 10 INT’s is nothing to sneeze at. I don’t think you believe McNabb would act like a lame duck, even if he was one. he would be the consumate professional he always was.
As for you competing for the division next year, i don’t see it. i’m trying to look at this evenly, and it seems like you guys took a step back. your best corner at this point is Asante, and he’s a home run or a strike out. your safeties are problems, i think you would admit to that, you don’t know how Stew is going to bounce back from that ACL, the rest of the linebacking corp is a ?(why you got rid of W.Weatherspoon i don’t know) and there are some concerns on the O-line. that’s alot of holes to fill. now yes you do have 11 picks, but 9 times out of 10, picks take a year to pan out. so the immediate impact is in doubt. Add to that the unlnown in Kolb, and it feels like a recipe for disaster to me. At least i’m hoping so ;)
your best corner at this point is Asante, and he’s a home run or a strike out.
Agreed (sort of)
your safeties are problems
Quintin Mikell is a very good SS, but yes, FS isn’t good. I actually like Macho Harris. Here’s a guy that was inserted into a starting role at the highest level in his sport at a position he’s never played before in his life – What was to be expected? He showed some flashes, and I’m interested to see what he can do after a full offseason working at being a FS.
you don’t know how Stew is going to bounce back from that ACL, the rest of the linebacking corp is a ?(why you got rid of W.Weatherspoon i don’t know)
Bradley was apparently close to being ready to go at the end of the season last year, but yes, I agree – a minor question mark. Witherspoon did nothing for us. He had a great first game after they traded for him, but quickly became a liability. I really like Akeem Jordan as a WILL, and Moise Fokou was a nice surprise as a rookie. Bradley, if healthy, is a stellar player, and I would imagine the other 2 LB positions get addressed in the draft.
and there are some concerns on the O-line.
Minor concerns. Will Jamaal Jackson come back healthy? If so, I don’t see any concern whatsoever. If he doesn’t, Nick Cole has to fill in at C, which isn’t ideal.
I can bring up just as many holes with the Cowboys.
My best friend is an Eagles fan
as is not very enthused with Stew Brad. i’ll defer to both of you, because i know nothing about what he’s bringing to the table. i’ll tell you this however. even tho he said he was close to returning at the end of last season, Osi said the same thing at the end of the ‘08 season coming off of his knee. And yet he still was slowed by it last season. again, different injury, different players, but still….don’t hold your breath.
Please Dawk, do bring up the holes in the Cowboys. (you must not be paying attention to who you’re talking to!) lol
I actually haven’t mixed it up over here in a while – I miss it, haha.
But I know what happens next if I make a big list of the Cowboys’ holes – I’ll e arguing here for the next 48 hours, and I just can’t do that. But I will mention the BIG, BIG issue – OL.
once again you don't see who you're talking to
hint – look at the avatar. and please dont bring up the O-line here, or to be even more frank, anything to do with Flozell. the natives don’t take to kindly to any flozell talk!
Your Iggles OL is a bigger concern
What are you going to tell us to worry about now that Free has replaced Flo. It destroys your avg. age of the OL argument.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
What?!?!? You’re crazy. No way, no how is the Eagles’ OL a bigger concern than Dallas’.
And yeah, you got younger by getting rid of Flozell. You’re also now starting the ONLY guy that gave the Cowboys any kind of depth whatsoever… and may not have even gotten better at the LT position.
Not to mention the OL is still older than dirt, even if it’s younger on average than it was last year. You still have 4 guys that will all be 32 years old by the end of the season.
Dawk ... is that some slang for "never say die" ...? :)
You still have 4 guys that will all be 32 years old by the end of the season.
For running backs, that’s ancient. But for O-Linemen, they all have 2-3 good years left on their tread. Hell, I’d bet you agree Flo still has 1-2 years left in the tank.
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
Actually, I though Flo was done last year. Unfortunately, one of the few guys he still plays well against is Trent Cole, haha.
32 is old. It just is. And when 80% of your OL is nearing the end of their careers, that’s not good.
Very scientific
32 is old. It just is
Very ironic that your “young” OL didn’t make it through the season while Dallas had all it’s opening day players starting the last 3 games. Colombo being the only one who missed any time.
I really don’t think you can lump everyone over 30 into the “too old” category, as some players are considered to still be in their prime in their mid 30’s. Depends on the individual.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
Just realized...
If you exclude the Eagles’ kickers and Juqua Parker, your 4 starting O Linemen would be the 4 oldest players on the Eagles’ roster.
LOL
So 31 is older than dirt?
Ridiculous.
Yes, your team has more holes in the line than Dallas. Peters was the only guy who started all the games at the same position. Your over-hyped Andrews wall never played, and your center blew out a knee, right?
Maybe he’s ready for 2010, and maybe not. So yes, your team has a lot of questions swirling around the OL. Dallas just needs to add more depth. One good draft pick on the OL could solve all Dallas’ needs along the OL.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
It is ridiculous
I realize football is a young man’s game, but if a guy can play, I think the term “old” shouldn’t be used until at least 34 or 35.
Just look at Ray Lewis, dude can stay play at a high level.
In Romo we Trust
Are you truely giving up a season if your investing in your future.
Kolb was a godd move and to quote Raf, Dallas sent Morton to the Giants and Pats sent Bledsoe to the Bills.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Or 1984
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
The ’Skins and Little Danny Snyder have always signed and paid too much for has been / broken down players. I mean really, does McNabb, Larry Johnson, Willie Parker, Clinton Portis and possibly Flozell Adams really scare anyone in the NFC BEast?? Theres not enough tred left on all those players to replace one tire on my sons go cart!!!
Oh boy, let the whining about Davis begin...
Sorry, but I’ve lost all faith in most of these novice organizations that scout and grade offensive lines. There was a “credible” one a few months ago that “proved” Leonard Davis was the most consistent lineman for Dallas. Another argued that Colombo, before he was injured, was the best-performing lineman Dallas had.
I don’t believe any of it. I’d encourage you guys to take this kind of stuff with a grain of salt and use the eye-test (your own personal assessment) to come up with your own evaluations for Dallas’ offensive line.
What about when the eye test matches Broadus?
My eye test said that Bigg whiffed on more blocks than any other Cowboys’ lineman last year. On most of the goalline plays, it was his man who darted in to make the stop.
Bigg
I don’t know how a 370 lb guy struggles in short yardage, but he makes it possible.
by I_miss_Switzer on Apr 7, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
If that's the case, then that's fine.
I just want to make sure people don’t blindly follow this one report without knowing the others that are out there. I’d encourage you go come up with their own conclusion.
I guess we’ll find out what the Cowboys think about it by the time the season starts.
by Admiral Dallas on Apr 7, 2010 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
And I'll qualify my statement
Bigg also had some of the most devastating blocks of the O-Line. When he blocks the guy in front of him, he usually plants him on his back several yards downfield. The problem is he misses too often for the great blocks to make up for it.
He leads the team in pancake bolcks and whiffs
In an interview Willie was ask if he was thinking about retiring. He paused for a moment, smiled and replied " I play music and golf, which one do you think I need to give up"?
Davis getting no push on 4 goal-to-go running plays against the Chargers’ 22nd ranked run defense.
That is inexcusable, go watch those plays how he ends up on his stomach.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Apr 7, 2010 5:13 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Bigg Mistake
The play that sticks out most in my mind from last year is the second New York game at the Meadowlands. Davis is leaing Barber out, and he totally whiffs on a LB half his size. Said LB then proceeds to strip the ball from Barber and is recovered by New York.
Just looked it up
Maybe the LB wasn’t so small, it was Kiwanuka. And then Osi returned it for 24 yards…ugh.
Sweet!
McQuistan just signed his tender. We’re all set now.
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
Gingers have no souls! However, he may be a daywalker.
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
Tell me again why we tendered these guys?
McQ, Proctor, Preston, etc? Do we really not believe there is anybody on the street better than these guys? The Colts grabbed a schoolteacher midseason and he did a much better job for them than Proctor did for us when forced into action.
Where's the pic of McNabb air guitaring, and trying to scare the fans when you need it?
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.

BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 7, 2010 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Hahahaha!!!!
Washington’s new QB!
I wish it had the bit when he ran up to the glass and banged on it. That was truly classic.
Here's the whole thing...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4lL4WKxRCk&feature=related
What was he thinking!?
Love the title on the youtube vid too.
I remember when he ran out of bounds and picked up the phone. I still can’t believe he did that.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
You da man, Aaron
If I was the Eagles I’d trade him too.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Transcript
McFlabb: “Look how cool I am guys!” makes some guitar noises
Desean: “Yeah buoy! We gonna tear dey asses!”
Vick: sighs to himself and is filled with embarrassment that he’s second string to THIS guy
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
by APerfectStar on Apr 7, 2010 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions
hey bye dawk..shouldn't you be on some philly blog bitching bout mcnabb getting traded..why are you always on cowboy blogs?
by milkos1213 on Apr 7, 2010 8:47 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
nevermind bye dawk..i saw your earlier post..you're alright.besides i understand why you would wanna talk to winners on cowboy sites..god knows your team hasn't won anything since they were wearing leather helmets
by milkos1213 on Apr 7, 2010 9:38 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
He's really a Cowboys fan, he just can't admit it to himself yet.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
by APerfectStar on Apr 7, 2010 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions
For excellence in mathmatics, writing, and science...
Rocky Dennis.
Go get him Dozer!
BTB League Consolation Ladder Champ...thought you knew.
by Aaron Novinger on Apr 8, 2010 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
FINALLY
Guys. First post. Been reading for about two years now. Best way to follow our team by far. Sorry its taken me so long to hop on, but i am excited to be amongst breathren of the boys.
First…just when i thought i couldnt hate mcnabb anymore….we are all treated to that easter egg dyed in burgundy and gold. I keep hanging a picture of him & shanny at their news conference holding his jersey up in a coworkers cubicle. iggles fan. grrreat success.
Secondly….big Flo fan. Half deaf. Half retarded. But the guy held it down for us forever and would willingly go below the belt to protect #9. Thought doing this before the draft was eehhh…but the mothership has an editorial from tool chest j ellis about saving money. how bout Jerruh being uunder where he was than last year, salary-wise, in an uncapped year?
And lastly, for now, its more evident now that next season could very well hinge on our rookie class from last season and the strides they make.
Welcome.
And good point about last year’s rookies. We need some delayed bang there.
"We'll see." --Bill Parcells
I have been sounding the alarm
All off-season about Davis and Gurrode. This is where the upgrade on the line needs to be. I am going to be fingers crossed Lupati falls to us in 15 days.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Apr 7, 2010 5:06 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Either of the top 2 interior prospects, Iupati or Pouncey, would be great.
While there looks to be some other good interior players there seems to be a definite drop off after those two.
Gurode and Davis are feast or famine type players. I think they’re both still serviceable enough (especially Gurode who despite his troubles can have some great games) but the end is nigh here.
Gurode and Davis will be 32 when the 2010 season starts and we can’t expect their inconsistencies/mobility to improve as they get older. We need to get some quality guys in the pipeline so we don’t have to stick with them out of desperation when they get older, more expensive and worse over the next 3 years. Bringing in Iupati or Pouncey is a great first step in that process.
Throw in the fact that Kosier will turn 32 during next season and it’s the last year of his contract and we can see that we might need to replace one interior player every year for the next 3 years.
Then add in Marc Colombo, 32 when the season starts, whose lack of athleticism will certainly not improve as he moves into his mid-thirties and he’ll need to be replaced in the next few years as well.
That’s almost every spot on the Oline up for replacement within a 3 year period. The only bright spot for the future on the Oline is currently Doug Free.
which is why OLine must be our top priority in the draft
I don’t think you can mandate its the first pick, because if the draft doesn’t go our way you don’t want them reaching.
But if not the first pick I think we need at least 2 solid picks and a couple of FA’s.
"Where's Woody? - We need another Darren Woodson
Hmmmm
Seems now alot of NFL scouts are saying that the Dez Bryant issues are overblown.
Who didn’t see this coming?
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Apr 7, 2010 6:09 PM CDT reply actions
How do you know scouts and GMs are lying in april?
Their lips are moving!!!
Centers and guards can be very good into their late 30’s so no real rush there. Step was playing quite well in his middle to late 30’s; Donaldson in his time with us was I believe over 35 and kicked large amounts of lard butt. There are many instances of guards being very good at the same age.
There's a difference
Those guys didn’t trail off as much as players normally do.
Some of our guys are already trailing off at 31-32. They can’t be expected to actually reverse direction and improve from here into their mid to late 30’s. Kosier I can see maintaining his current level for longer into his 30’s. Columbo…50/50. Gurode…I have my doubts because his knees are already giving him trouble. Davis…not so much.
Rabid and luvin' it
Celek
I thoroughly enjoyed Celek getting the bleep knocked out of him by Ken Hamlin in the playoff game. Celek has an overrated opinion of himself.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
He had a better season (at least statistically) than Witten. And if you call a helmet to helmet cheap shot on a defenseless receiver a good hit, then yeah, Hamlin knocked the bleep out of him… even though I recall Celek going right back to the huddle a play later.
Celek – 76 catches, 971 yards, 12.8 ypc, 8 TD
Witten – 94 catches, 1,030 yards, 11 ypc, 2 TD
So sure, Witten had 94 catches to Celek’s 76, but a much lower yards per catch. And yes, the 8-2 difference in TD’s is enormous.
Fewer catches, fewer yards
Yep, that makes him statistically better.
Really Bi-Dawk, this is an old argument and well beneath your usual ability to reason.
The TD differential is only enormous if Dallas NEEDED Witten to catch more TDs and he couldn’t do it. Instead, many of those went to RBs, Austin and Williams. Dallas’ scoring was fine, especially in three games that come to mind… When you guys rediscover scoring from longer drives instead of quick strikes and that whole running game thing, the light will come on for you.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Fewer yards? We’re talking about 59 yards here.
And give all the reasoning you want of why Witten didn’t have many TD’s. Don’t care. And again, I’m not saying Celek is a better TE. But statistically, not matter how you want to spin it, Celek had the better season.
if by statistics you mean TDs, then yes, you've spun it your way
but 94 catches to 76 is hardly spin
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
18 more catches, but only 59 more yards, which means he was doing a hell of a lot less with his receptions than Celek.
Fewer yards, worse blocker
spin it anyway you like. Don’t care.
The stats are comparable.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Can't find the stats now
But OCC posted an analysis of our run game with a statistic showing that Witten was by a wide margin the best run blocking TE in the NFL last year. Playing TE isn’t all about who scores the most TDs, Witten had more catches and a much better impact in the running game.
RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.
by aussie_cowboy on Apr 8, 2010 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
But OCC posted an analysis of our run game with a statistic showing that Witten was by a wide margin the best run blocking TE in the NFL last year.
Oh, well clearly he’s the best blocking TE in the NFL then. My mistake.
At least you can admit when you're wrong.
RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.
by aussie_cowboy on Apr 8, 2010 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
True dat
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
Dawk, this is your ONLY statistic ... and this is the ONLY year Witten didn't catch many TDs
He’s an elite TE by any measurement you want to discuss.
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
Not sure how many times I have to say this, but Witten is absolutely an elite TE, and in no way am I saying Celek is the better TE… But statistically, Celek had the better season last year. He just did.
again, by "statistically" ... you mean exactly ONE stat
again, kinda silly
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
You make a valid point w/ re to TDs and YPC
But 59 yards is significant when it represents an entire games worth of production from Celek in such a relatively brief 16 game season.
For TDs
that was pretty much the stat Celek had over Witten. And the stats don’t include blocking, where Celek doesn’t even make the top 10.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Ah, there it is. I’m actually surprised Terry didn’t mention the blocking, where’s there’s this ridiculous myth that Witten is the second coming of Clint Didier – I’m sure the people under 30 years old on this board are like… “Uhhhhh, who?”
Look, not saying Celek is better. Just saying he had a better season statistically last year.
It's not a myth that he blocks well
He’s actually among the best blocking TEs in football. He is NOT much in yac. Celek and Colley are both better in that area.
Sometimes you have to step back and pretend they aren’t on your team to see the finer points. Celek is an excellent receiving TE. He’s an adequate blocker.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Witten is absolutely not among the best blocking TE’s in football. Is he among the best blocking TE’s that actually also put up some decent receiving numbers? Sure, I’ll agree to that. But that’s where it ends.
O.Cool just wrote a post on running-game statistics that says you be wrong :)
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
When it comes to blocking, numbers that other players are putting up mean jack, when I can simply watch Witten and see that he’s not some sort of blocking god.
How do you come up with that Witten is not one of the best blocking TE's in the league..
Thats been one of his best known traits since day one….where have you been. Talk to any NFL analyst and they will point out that’s what makes Witten one of the best , if not the best TE in the league.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Ah, OK
Stats are your buddy until they’re not. Then it’s the eyeball test. Then back to stats when it suits your argument. Ooookay,
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Stats are your buddy until they’re not. Then it’s the eyeball test. Then back to stats when it suits your argument.
Haha, yup.
But really though, what stats do you have on Witten’s blocking?
Just go watch some games...pretty obvious.
and in any conversation when speaking of Witten blocking comes up. The guy is just the best all around TE in the league hands down. He runs great routes, gets open and blocks expceptionally well. Can’t ask much more than that from a TE.
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Your in the minority on that comment buddy....and that's not just Cowboy fans speaking
You still havent giving me one reason how he is not a good blocking TE..
"Austin made the play, Austin saved the day" Brad Sham
Of course I’m in the minority. I’m on a Cowboys’ blog.
You still havent giving me one reason how he is not a good blocking TE..
An exceptional blocking TE is going to drive DE’s and OLB’s off the ball. Witten doesn’t give you that. He’ll give great effort and hold the point of attack, which makes him an OK blocker, but it’s not like he’s creating holes in the running game. And all that is fine, especially for a guy that gives you so much in the passing game – But he’s not a “great” blocking TE. He just isn’t. And as for pass blocking (which they don’t ask him to do a ton of), he’s not good. Need I point to Jared Allen beating him like a rented mule in the playoffs?
You want stats ... here are your stats.
Dawk, really… if you want to argue about something, try to stick to things you know a bit about. You obviously don’t watch many Cowboys games, or you’d hear national announcers – many (like Theismann) enjoy dissin’ the Boys – talk about what a great BLOCKING TE Witten is… or you could just watch him blow your Igg’s LBs off the line throughout 2009s most beautiful games… or you could just stick to things you know …
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
Haha, you throw some meaningless numbers up on a graph, and they’re suddenly Bible? I can make a shiny graph that says I banged 10 Victoria’s Secret models.
And yes, by my count I saw 14 Cowboys games last year.
you asked for stats...i give you stats... you call it a silly table
you hang your hat on stats when they serve you, but if they don’t they’re “meaningless?”
LOL … very silly
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
you asked for stats…i give you stats… you call it a silly table
What stats?!?!? Where did you give me stats? They’re just freaking numbers!
“Rushing yards” is a stat. A player runs X amount of yards before he’s tackled – That’s a stat. “Receptions” is a stat – It’s how many times a player caught a ball.
But I’m sorry – I don’t know for the life of me what “Run block rating” is. It’s not a stat. Do you even know what “run block rating” is? Can you please explain it to me?
well, it's a rating of how well you block, uh, on running plays
I’m pretty sure about that :)
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
I can make a shiny graph that says I banged 10 Victoria’s Secret models.
Not in that green body suit you didn’t
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
By the way, why would you ask your #2 pass-target to consistently stay in and block on passing downs?
kinda silly
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
Witten is one of the best blocking TE's in the NFL
All of the evidence in stats and the eyeball test ,and every announcer that calls a Cowboys game and mentions it, and all the NFL experts agree.
And on the other side of the argument is one little BiDawk who doesn’t think Witten is a good pass blocker because he claims to know more than everyone else.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
He did a hell of a job imitating a floor mat while trying to block Jared Allen in the playoffs last season.
And that's your come back
Weak.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
And OCC is my boy, but I already dismissed his numbers above...
Haha, you throw some meaningless numbers up on a graph, and they’re suddenly Bible? I can make a shiny graph that says I banged 10 Victoria’s Secret models.
That's not really dismissing his stats
in any credible way. Rather you have stated that you chose to ignore them as they don’t reinforce your ideology.
RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.
by aussie_cowboy on Apr 8, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
They’re just numbers, without any input as to how they arrived at those numbers, so what exactly can I credibly dispute?
Am I just supposed to look at those numbers and say… “OOOOOOOH, Witten had 15.2 run block rating. Well hell, I didn’t realize he had a 15.2 run block rating. Apologies all around.”
You may not think Witten is a great blocker,
but I know you will agree that RW is a great blocker.:)
In an interview Willie was ask if he was thinking about retiring. He paused for a moment, smiled and replied " I play music and golf, which one do you think I need to give up"?
Haha, OCC (and again, you’re my boy OCC) was referencing ProFootballFocus.com, which has Desean Jackson ranked as the 64th best WR in the NFL. So pardon me if I question that site’s credibility.
you gotta give dawk some credit, he never gives in
:)
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
Celek was out after Hamlin smacked him
If he came back into the game later, he sure didn’t produce.
I think he was doing his Captain Morgan’s pose behind the bench.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
LOL
… but his statistics were excellent that day
… well, there must have been at least one category where he beat Witten, which in my book means his statistics were, yes, you could even say elite that day
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
Good point
Looked it up
3 rec 59 yds for the game
He was decked in the 1stQ, and didn’t catch a pass until the 3rdQ.
then he caught 2 passes in garbage time in the last 2 minutes of the game.
to make the jump to the next level, Odrick said today he needs to work on one area. "Just being more violent overall,'' Odrick said. "Play the game and play it right, violently.''
typical.
greeeen with envy..
just think, some of our OL issues could have been solved with a couple draft picks we shipped off awhile back for…
oh wait.
#9 has the most incredible 4 yard gain in the history of the NFL.
I swear every time I read a critique of our ol, they are graded differently.
I don’t even know what to think anymore.
Last year, it looked to me like outside 3 games & the minnesota playoff game, our tackles were a big strength for us. Smaller guys blew by Flo, sure, but he stonewalled quite a few rushers The interior played well, but was prone to major mistakes – probably too many considering their jobs are not as difficult.
But I think the tripping penalties, etc. on Flo were telling
he’s lost a lot of his legendary mobility.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Nate Newton said the samething when it happened.
Nate thought it was time for Flo to go also.
In an interview Willie was ask if he was thinking about retiring. He paused for a moment, smiled and replied " I play music and golf, which one do you think I need to give up"?

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