Dez Bryant: Great Expectations or Irrational Exuberance?
On the night the Dallas Cowboys chose Dez Bryant as their number one pick this year, BTB's own Rafael Vela wrote a prescient story (Dallas Cowboys Draft 2010: And Now A Caveat) about managing our expectations for Dez Bryant in 2010.
I understand Dallas Cowboys fans' exuberance over Dez Bryant's selection in the NFL Draft's first round. I feel it myself. Now, let's all take a breath and prevent it from crossing the line into irrational exuberance.
Raf pointed out that breakout rookie seasons don't come along that often, and that a 35-45 catch, 600 to 700 yards performance by Dez Bryant should be considered outstanding.
It initially appeared that the Cowboys were toeing Raf's line, I for one didn't hear a lot of hype out of Valley Ranch. But then something happened: Rookie Mini Camp.
After the break we look at what some of the Cowboys coaches had to say about Dez Bryant, what he had to say himself and how rookie wide receivers fit into the greater statistical scheme of things.
Coach Wade Phillips, not known to engage in verbal exuberance of any kind, appears to have been smitten:
Dez Bryant is an absolute talent, you don't see that many come in and look that good that early. In 33 years (of coaching) there's not very many that I can say look that talented at their position for a three-day period.
Coach Ray Sherman, who has coached receivers such as Jerry Rice, Randy Moss and T.O, was equally impressed:
He's in a class of his own. He's different than any guy I've ever had and I think that he's going to be a special player. Because he has the want-to, he has the ability and he wants to be good. [...] He's a guy that's going to be able to make the big play because he can utilize his body, sort of like Michael Irvin or Chris Carter.
And it would seem that Dez himself has already defined some goals for himself. Jean-Jacques Taylor recently ran this little nugget of information regarding Dez Bryants's targets for 2010:
Bryant wants to be the NFL's Rookie of the Year. He wants to score at least 10 touchdowns. He wants bragging rights concerning a couple of friendly wagers he has made with close friends regarding his performance for the Cowboys this season.
I don't know whether that's a direct quote from Dez Bryant or whether JJT inferred it from what Dez said. Regardless, expectations for No. 88 are high in Cowboys Nation.
Great expectations or irrational exuberance?
To know if and when great expectations cross the line into irrational exuberance, it's important to understand the historic statistical precedent. For the purposes of this post, the historical precedent are the WR draft classes of the last ten years (2000-2009).
I've broken the draft classes down by WRs picked in the first round, the top five WRs picked overall and the top 3 most successful rookie WRs by receiving yards. In each of these cases I looked at the production in the respective rookie seasons only. For the first two groups I ran further breakdowns to see whether rookies that joined non-losing teams or playoff-bound teams were more successful or not in their first NFL seasons. Here are the results:
| Top 5 WRs draft picks, '00-09, rookie season | First round WR, '00-09, rookie season |
|||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Split | Avg. Rec | Avg. Yds | Avg. TDs | Split | Avg. Rec | Avg. Yds | Avg. TDs | |
| Total (50) |
36 | 480 | 2.9 | Total (43) |
36 | 514 | 3.1 | |
| 8+ Wins Teams (27) |
34 | 464 | 2.9 | 8+ Wins Teams (24) |
34 | 493 | 3.1 | |
| Playoff Teams (12) |
26 | 324 | 2.5 | Playoff Teams (11) |
29 | 382 | 2.5 | |
The average for all first-round receivers of the last 10 years as well as the top five receivers chosen per year is 36 catches for about 500 yards and 3 touchdowns. Remarkably, the more successful the team they join, the lower the average production of the rookie WR. This might be a result of the better teams often drafting later, better teams having perhaps less need at these positions in the first place, or better teams taking more time to develop their talent.
Another way to look at statistical precedent, particularly given the statements above, is to look at the top 3 WRs per draft class by receiving yards in their rookie season, irrespective of where and by whom they were drafted.
| Top 3 WR per draft class by receiving yards in rookie season | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| Split | Avg. Rec | Avg. Yds | Avg. TDs |
| Total (30) |
56 | 784 | 4.6 |
| Best rookie WR (10) |
69 | 943 | 5.8 |
| 2nd rookie WR (10) |
49 | 777 | 4.3 |
| 3rd rookie WR (10) |
50 | 632 | 3.6 |
The best rookie WRs in each of the last 10 years averaged close to one thousand yards in their rookie season, but only three actually surpassed the 1,000 yard mark in the last decade: Anquan Boldin (1,377 yards, '03), Michael Clayton (1,193 yards, '04) and Marques Colston (1,038 yards, '06).
Since the move to a 16 game regular season in 1978, each decade has seen three WR rookies top the 1,000 yard mark (90's: Randy Moss, Terry Glenn, Joey Galloway; 80's: Ernest Givins, Bill Brooks, Cris Collinsworth). A new decade has begun this year, and statistically speaking, three more slots for a 1,000+ yard rookie WR have opened up. Make of this what you will.
As you fine-tune your expectations for Dez Bryant, consider also that the Cowboys had two 1,000+ yard receivers in Miles Austin and Jason Witten last season. This was only the fourth time in franchise history that this has happened (07: Owens & Witten, 06: Owens & Glenn, 79: Hill & Pearson).
What are the chances of having three 1,000+ yard receivers? Well, it has happened 5 times before in the NFL ('80 Chargers, '89 Redskins, '95 Falcons, '04 Colts and '08 Cardinals), but I wouldn't even bet a lukewarm beer on that happening.
And what about Dez's own target of double digit touchdowns? The first and so far last Cowboys rookie to achieve 10 receiving TDs in his rookie season was Bob Hayes in 1965. Only four other rookies in the whole NFL have managed 10 or more TD receptions in their rookie seasons since then: Sammy White (12 TD, MIN, 1976), John Jefferson (13 TD, SD, 1978), Daryl Turner (10 TD, SEA, 1984) and 'the one that got away from Jerry', Randy Moss (17 TD, MIN, 1998).
BTB blogger dunkman reported that Jason Garrett was interviewed on Sirius the other day and said essentially that Dez is a phenom, but it’s rare for a rookie to be an impact player until year two or three. Garret went on to add that he did expect immediate contributions in the return game. For now, Garrett remains one of the few voices of reason among all the excitement.
What type of numbers do you see Dez Bryant putting up in 2010, and how would this impact the other receivers and the running game?
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I'll buy that - plus a couple and some good years in the return game...
WIth the return game he could still potentially get rookie of the year with those stats.
"Where's Woody? - We need another Darren Woodson
I'd say 10 fewer catches 100 fewer yards and 1 less TD
And I’ll still be happy with Dez.
Let’s be honest. Between Austin and WItten, Dez isn’t going to get an absolute ton of looks.
by Blue Eyed Devil on May 11, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Guarded enthusiasm right now
I’m guessing 40 catches, 500 yards, 5 TDs. But hopefully he’ll break out in a big way once some…err…dead weight is cleared off the depth chart.
the guy has talent on the field and from all reports is a hard worker.
The question is… will off the field stuff start to pop up. He will definitely be an impact player, i believe he will send roy to the bench fairly quickly
I'm not worried about off feild issues.
The question is more how will he be utilized in year 1.
Semper Fi Do or Die
Just wanted to say...
Semper Fi to my Fellow Devil Dawg…
Oh yea and that I also agree, I just don’t see how off the field issues can be an issue with him given he doesn’t even has much as a booster buying him an Range Rover on his record… you know something that screams WR Diva, he just sounds like a humble kid who just wants to prove that he belongs in the NFL.
Don’t get me wrong there are no Saints in the NFL everybody got a closet… but its becoming harder and harder to hide your baggage in this day and age of cell phone cams and youtube… just ask JJ
Whether you think you can or you think you can't either way your right
by UnNessecsary Roughness on May 11, 2010 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
OORAH!!
You motivate me- KILL!!! Lol
Semper Fi Do or Die
by Jeremiah_24 on May 11, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
YUT!
Blood makes the grass grow… Marines make the blood flow! Get Sum!
Whether you think you can or you think you can't either way your right
by UnNessecsary Roughness on May 11, 2010 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but ...
I ran into an older (70?) US Marine (don’t ask me his name, I think I only got his first anyway!) in Udon Thani, Thailand a few weeks ago, and he started telling stories. Not just of his own, but also about the island-jumping the Marines did in WWII … in his words: “when we made a name for ourselves”
Very cool stuff.
I never knew: Udon Thani was a MAJOR US Air-base in the Vietnam War
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
Absolutely - in fact I went through a helicopter crash there in 1970
Bruised but not broken. Udon, Udorn, Korat were all launching more flights per hour than O’Hare in Chicago.
good noodles too
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on May 12, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL ... not my full reply, but better than most of my posts!
It was the perfect place for an air-base… neutral country not connected (therefore not threatened) to Vietnam. And the girls are cute. And Aaron’s still a noodle.
To this day, there are great Vietnam restaurants in Udon Thani, Nong Khai and surrounding areas.
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
All this Espirit De Corps is getting me
EXCITED!!!! Moto run anybody, anybody???
Semper Fi Do or Die
by Jeremiah_24 on May 11, 2010 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Boots and Utes...
Lets roll…
“1 Mile… No good, 2 Miles… No good… 3 Miles… getting better…”
Whether you think you can or you think you can't either way your right
by UnNessecsary Roughness on May 11, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
"Copenhagen Copenhagen Copenhagen Spit,
If you ain’t 03 you ain’t sh**" : )
Semper Fi Do or Die
by Jeremiah_24 on May 11, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
LOL...
I see we are going to have to start our own Thread!….Lol
I was P.I. MCRD 2nd Bat, Lima Co Plt 2005
Whether you think you can or you think you can't either way your right
by UnNessecsary Roughness on May 11, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
MCRD San Diego
1 Battalion, Bravo Company Platoon 1122
Ya, we are wasting the good readers time : ( I could talk about the Corps all day!
Lol
Semper Fi Do or Die
by Jeremiah_24 on May 11, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
What about impact on the entire offense?
Anyone have any info as to the total collective number of catches, receiving yardage, and TD’s by our receivers, tights ends, and running backs/FBs the last few years? I guess what I’m really getting at is it more reasonable to assume that Dez’s contributions will significantly increase the collective production of the offense, or that his numbers will mostly come at the expense of RW, Miles, Crayton and Witten? Wonder what the overall stats show about a rookie WR’s ability to significantly contribute to heightened offensive production by a team?
Good points but the part that I am anxious to see
is a guy like Dez taking some of the coverage off Miles and Jason. If he can be effective in his first season, defenses will have to play the Cowboys a lot differently than they did last season.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Ha ...
If he can just hold onto the ball a little bit better than Roy Willy, it will give the Cowboys more opportunity to put "W"’s up. Seriously, if Roy doesn’t fumble against the Giants and drop the passes against G.B., the Cowboys are home against the Vikes with a week rest.
But yes his IMPACT should not be measured in receptions, yards, nor TD’s, but his 1st year success should be measured by how defenses will have to play Dallas now. If he demands a teams top cover corner, then Austin should shine against team’s #2 guys, and vise versa. One thing is for certain, with all the weapons the Boys have, if Romo gets good protection, the offense is going to be scoring a lot of points.
by spadesking131313 on May 11, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
It should mean nobody gets double coverage and it probably mean the run game opens up as well
I can see us running more against nickel and dime packages. Those flare passes to Felix as well are going to be more difficult to cover. Dez will have to show he can block in the league before he gets big playing time don’t you think?
sure... it's why we pay RW the big-bucks and he gets so much PT -- it's all about ...
the blocking?
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
If he cannot block that shows up on film and the defense knows if he is in it is not a running play on his side
It simply limits the play options they can call and that limits the playing time for Dez.
your probably right, but I think there are "grades" of blocking ability
While Dez might not be in the Roy Williams HOF for blocking WRs, he probably isn’t completely inept either. He’s a big athlete with quickness, so learning the basics of blocking isn’t such an insurmountable hurdle. I just can’t see Dez missing too many snaps for blocking deficiencies.
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
No team doubles the rookie...
Not even when Moss came out you may get some over the top help but no team is going to roll coverage to his side with not as much a 5 weeks of tape on him. He will have to prove that he is worthy of Double coverage before a team even considers it.
Whether you think you can or you think you can't either way your right
by UnNessecsary Roughness on May 11, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Keep them from selling out to stop Miles
What Dez needs to do is be threatening enough to keep them from selling out to cover Miles and Witten. Teams can put a strong safety on Witten and shade the free safety over to Miles’ side to help the corner blanket him on deep routes.
The question is, can Dez be dangerous enough in those situation to catch the ball, break the cornerback, and take the daylight all the way to the house?
If he can, then all of a sudden the defense can’t sell out to cover Austin and Witten. And if you don’t sell out to cover those guys… you can’t cover them. The end result is everyone has a great day!
In 2008 teams did that to Terrell Owens and said “throw to Roy Williams, I dare you!” Roy could never make them pay.
Last year we did that to Steve Smith of the Panthers. We bracket covered him with Newman and Sensabaugh to completely take him out of the game and dared and of the other Panther’s recievers to step up — none could and they got destroyed.
Dez has to be the guy that steps up in thsoe situations. He doesn’t have to be a huge player, he just has to be a playmaker when given the opportunitites.
by Blue Eyed Devil on May 11, 2010 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Right, that would be the point
If Dez stinks on ice, they cover him with a safety or the third corner, If he’s a threat, they have to at least man up on him with a good CB, maybe their number one. That’s what the Iggles had to do to W in the playoff game – they ended up putting Samuels on him because he was producing. That put number two and three guys on Austin and Crayton. That was helpful to say the least.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Not to mention the run game
Teams would be very brave (or foolish) to stack 8 and 9 in the box with Dez (assuming he lives up to potential), Miles, Witten and yes even roy (although ikd much rather see Tree on the field). In either casethe offense should be very dynamic.
by Bermystar on May 11, 2010 10:53 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, I know being guardedly optimistic is the right approach.
But I’m an NFL fan. Besides winning Super Bowls, imagining what if is some of my best fun. 80 catches, 14 tds, Rookie of the Year, and Romo has plenty left over for Austin and Witten. Hell, Roy had 7 tds last year in one of the poorest showings for a WR I ever had expectations for. At some point this season, Dez becomes a starter. That’s my serious prediction. I would be more surprised if Roy produced big.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
I agree that a bigger shocker would be if Dez does not outproduce Roy
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
+1
If Roy can grab 7 playing “straight up” as Pearson says, it’s feasible dez could snag 10 especially with the return game and all…
by Cknbonenowison on May 11, 2010 7:36 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I would say
50 catches for 850 yards and 11TD’s.
He will not be running short patterns as you have Austin and Witten to do that. I see him going deep more often to get the one on one mismatch against the CB so this explains his high reception average in my figures.
by G Fan in England on May 11, 2010 7:18 AM CDT reply actions
I hope Garrett isn't afraid to use him
If he’s productive, if he kills it in training camp against Jenkins, Newman, he deserves some targets
by Cknbonenowison on May 11, 2010 7:29 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
That's my biggest worry as well.
Only thing he can do is his absolute best to show Garrett that he deserves the opportunities. I just get the impression that Garrett is going to give RW every opportunity to succeed in the beginning of the season.
So, Dez might get off to a slow start while winning trust and waiting for RW to fail to step up. I expect him to have a huge second half of the season once he gets the opportunity via injury, failure or just rotation.
Rabid and luvin' it
by lonewolfz28 on May 11, 2010 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
If dez knows the offense, he'll be an impact....write it down!
by Cknbonenowison on May 11, 2010 7:38 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Are you referring to the "learning disability"
I think that was a bit overblown. Besides this isn’t rocket surgery, they’ll set up packages and make it simple for him early on.
Learning disabilities are so over-hyped.
If Dez has a hard time learning 150 plays, they might start out with only 30-50 plays in his repertoire … but that’s not necessarily a bad thing… it means he and Romo work all that much more on a concentrated number of sets and patterns.
JG is more than capable of taking advantage of Dez’s strengths, while limiting his weaknesses, be it blocking, reading defenses, memorizing the play-book, etc…
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
It all depends on Coach Jerry
And how much of an opportunity Dez will have. If Coach Jerry allows our top 3 receivers (Austin, Crayton, Dez) to fill the top 3 slots on the depth chart, Dez may be an impact player this year. If he continues to insist that Roy Williams is a “starter”, Dez will not see nearly as many opportunities – or he will be hampered by an ineffective #2 receiver of he is the #3.
I think what we'll see is
with catches targets for RW early as they work Dez in, like they started doing with the Tree. From there they’ll let Dez “earn” his playing time as he learns routes, coverages, reads, etc. That just seems to be how they do business – slowly work even the most talented players into the line up. It took forever for Felix to steal touches from Barber, for example.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
+2 Squid
Dez has to learn the routes and earn the trust of Romo to be where he’s supposed to be when he gets to his drop. TR’s favorite target is Witten who he trusts to move the chains. Miles is not far behind in the trust category comparted to Witten and because of that, they will be on his reads first and second most of the time unless a specific play is called to go elsewhere. That’s why it’s hard to determine Dez’s numbers because the OL will have to give TR time to go thru his reads if Witten and Miles are covered plus shared touches with RW. How much Dez learns, will impact how much TR and the coaching staff gives their trust.
I think Garrett was a little off...
the thinking rookies dont make impacts until year 2 or 3 is not true anymore..You have to look no further than Philadelphia with Desean Jackson and Jermey Macklin. More and more rookie WR’s are becoming serious contributors there first seasons. Dez will be one of them…
"First rounders need to be starters" Jerry Jones.
Well. he didn't say all WRs
he said something like “typically”, which I think is pretty accurate still.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
yeah, but "typically" as of late, early round picks have been major contributors there first seasons is the point I was making...
We haven’t drafted a talent like Dez Bryant early in a long long time….
"First rounders need to be starters" Jerry Jones.
I think Garrett is smart enough to know to lower expectations.
Dez has a learnig curve. Hopefully going up against Tnew, Jenkins, and Scandrick will speed it along.
Still, we want to bring the kid along right and teach him the right way. Putting enormous expectations on him and then turning on him when he doesnt do what you think he should isnt exactly smart.
KICK ASS every day!!!
like ... since ... way back in ...
2008?
(Felix … and Jenkins!)
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
+1
Agreed even Romo is going to have to learn how Dez runs his routes. He is going to have to trust that the rookie is looking at the same thing he is looking at when they are at the line of scrimmage. If looks over to make eye contact and he gets that deer in the headlights look from Dez I’m sure he will be going else where with the ball.
Whether you think you can or you think you can't either way your right
by UnNessecsary Roughness on May 11, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
It's going to be Austin, Dez, RW....
Crayton or Hurd are gone…..whoever stays will be the 5th WR and mainly inactive…..I think it’s pretty much a given that the top our WRs will be Austin, Dez, RW and Ogletree..
"First rounders need to be starters" Jerry Jones.
And that's too bad
Crayton is a much better receiver than Roy. He would be a monster in the slot with Austin in the X and Dez in the Z.
But, alas, I agree that coach Jerry will probably cut Crayton and force Roy out there as our #2. That makes Dez’s and Austin’s job much tougher because nobody respects Roy Williams at all. We saw this toward the end of last year when defenses were bracketing Austin like he was Steve Smith – because Roy was not a threat on the other side.
by JimmyJohnson on May 11, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't know why people think RW is going anywhere....
He has one more season to prove himself. RW is going to be the #2 or at least the #3 WR on the depth chart this year. Hurd or Crayton will be the #5. If I had to guess Crayton is the odd man out. Hurd is basically the same player as Crayton, but is one of the best special teams player on the team which leaves Crayton at a disadvantage. Crayton lost his PR job and doesn’t bring much else to the table which diminishes his worth. I don’t care what his agent is saying, he won’t be happy as the #5 WR who will be inactive alot of the time….
"First rounders need to be starters" Jerry Jones.
I think an arguement to keep Crayton can be made just as strong as an arguement to keep Hurd.
Its not going to be an easy decision no matter which way they end up going.
Hurd is no where near the same WR Crayton is. Its not close. Hurd is here only because of STs, not his potential as a WR anymore.
KICK ASS every day!!!
No one thinks Roy is going anywhere. We just want him to go someplace other than Dallas
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
not going to happen until next year for RW..
as far as Hurd and Crayton they are the same players…both have real good hands, but Hurd is a little faster and younger who also excels on special teams. Crayton doesn’t bring much to the table at this point. The guy doesn’t have much leverage or trade value to be honest. He may stay on the roster a little longer to protect against injury to another player, but at some point he will be cut. Im sure he will be pissed as hell if it happens mid summer when the rosters are prettty much set, but that very well may happen….
"First rounders need to be starters" Jerry Jones.
Hurd cant get open and with his long strides I dont see him being any good in the slot.
I prefer guys with short area quickness more in the slot than 40 speed. Crayton has produced, Hurd, not so much.
You dont like Crayton, never have and it make you biased in your opinion.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Hurd hasn't had much of a chance...
I may not care for Crayton, but I’m no fan of Hurds either. I’m just going by who brings more to the table and that’s Hurd. Crayton doesn’t play ST’s so that’s a huge negative for him considering the 4th or 5th WR will need to play special teams. They both could be gone and we could see someone totally off the radar landing the 5th WR spot who knows….
"First rounders need to be starters" Jerry Jones.
He started for a season. He got worse as guys adjusted to him. He never readjusted to them.
Hurd cant seperate consistently.
KICK ASS every day!!!
your saying Crayton can seperate? lol
Im telling you it will come down to who can play special teams. Eatman was just talking about this subject last week . Crayton doesn’t play ST’s which hurts his chances of making the team slim….Hurd is a very good special teamer which helps his case…
"First rounders need to be starters" Jerry Jones.
I agree with Hurd making it because of STs. Thats the only reason he makes it.
He is a good STer. All I said is a good arguement for keeping Crayton can be made and it would be a tough decision. But ultimately STs will probably win. Im in agreement with you that RW has one more year.
Crayton is playing and making plays. Romo trusts him. Why would he trust a guy who doesnt get open?
KICK ASS every day!!!
I think you are discounting Crayton's PR role on ST
Going into the season relying on an unproven rookie as your only PRer would be disastrous. Crayton is not flashy but steady and produces.
Crayton is much better than Hurd
Your comment that they are the same player isn’t true, Crayton could start on a lot of teams in the league, Hurd couldn’t.
In Romo we Trust
I cant remember not having 5 WRs not activated on game day but 4 and 5 will be ST aces.
KICK ASS every day!!!
Ogletree wasn't active in alot of games last season....
"First rounders need to be starters" Jerry Jones.
Your right, he was activated the second half of the season, maybe a little sooner.
KICK ASS every day!!!
I got a mention! Woo hoo!
Of course Garrett is sort of like that anyway. On Romo he said something like “Yeah, Tony had a pretty good year. He did a little better not making negative plays” and “Felix is a pretty good back”.
I suspect he’d call the Mona Lisa a “nice effort”…
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
43 receptions, 5 TD catches, 19ypc average, 2 ST TDs
11 yard average on punt returns, and will miss 2 games due injury(hamstring or vicious hit)
KICK ASS every day!!!
It really all depends on the amount he gets to play.
On one hand he could be the #2 guy if they swallow their pride on the RW debacle. On the other hand he could be #3. Either way has positives and negatives but I see him outperforming RW hands down. I remember our redzone woes trying to play “go fetch” corner routes with RW, Marty B, etc that just didn’t look very smooth. Dez is a go getter. I see him being utilized in that manner which will bolster his TD’s. Prediction:
45+ rec’s, 750+ yds, 8+ TD’s, ST’s 1 maybe 2 TD’s.
Trying to keep my exuberance within rationality.
Semper Fi Do or Die
78 catches, 1400 yards, 14 TD's
Okay, I just wanted to get your attention. It’s not that I don’t think he can reach those numbers, but he just won’t have the on-field time to reach those numbers. I’m thinking that stat line will be the contribution of RoyDez. Both can be significant factors in the red zone (notice I said ‘can’ and not ‘are’).
I think by the end of the season, Dez is on the field more than Roy, but Roy will still get his reps. I haven’t written Roy off, but I don’t think he’ll ever have a season that merits his salary.
Plot out a one-back formation (with or without a shotgun) with Dez in the slot opposite Witten. If the slot defender is playing off, you can run a short out with Roy running a slant in behind. If it’s quick enough, Roy will be in position to block the slot back for Dez. That leaves Roy’s corner to catch Dez after changing directions. With Witten and Austin on the other side of the field, I can see Dez having lots of room if he can shed the corner. It would probably work best on 3rd and medium to long downs. The safeties will be playing off a bit more and would probably slide a bit towards the strong side.
Might also work well if you single Roy on one side with Dez in the slot on the strong side. Run Dez in motion towards Roy. Give Dez a step or two past the OT, snap it and hit him quick. His defender will most likely be behind him and Roy will be there to block the corner. Again, the safeties will most likely have slid to the strong side. Assuming Roy gets a competent block on the corner, all Dez would have to do is shed his defender (which he may be too far from to begin with) and he should have a good gain. Get away from the safety, too, and you’ll have a very long completion that will probably end up as 6.
by Northern Cowboy on May 11, 2010 8:09 AM CDT reply actions
Someone has...
Been studying their Madden playbook…lol
j/k good points.
Whether you think you can or you think you can't either way your right
by UnNessecsary Roughness on May 11, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Dez will see the opposing team's 2nd best or 3rd best corner, if he can consistently beat 3rd tier corners
then Miles, and the 2nd WR will benefit immediately. Really I think that Grizz and company will break down the offensive possibilities on this year’s annual. Dez will probably have an immediate impact on taking double coverage on Miles and improving the return game, later in the year he will have better opportunities to make an impact with rec, and TDs.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
Austin will still be the go to receiver along with Witten
but hopefully Bryant can become more productive than both RW and Crayton as the second receiver and make sure Austin isn’t seeing a lot of double coverages.
If Bryant is the real deal that many here believe he is, then our offense will become absolutely unstoppable barring injuries of course.
In Romo we Trust
Why read occ's thread Terry?
U “don’t believe in stats” or that they have any correlation to how the game really works
wait this one was the best “this isn’t baseball”
no, really?!
by Cknbonenowison on May 11, 2010 10:24 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
what the hell are you talking about it??
where in my comment did I refer to stats or did you forget to take your meds today??
In Romo we Trust
Terry, what is your prediction for Dez's stats this season?
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
any guess as to his numbers as a receiver? Any pro bowls in his future?
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
How about this question:
Who will be more productive this season: Dez or Roy?
Make your brain hurt, I will!
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on May 12, 2010 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Dez, not including his return game
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
Dez
Because it’s Roy.
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on May 12, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions
my guess would be
maybe 35-40 receptions, 500-600 yards, 4 or 5 TDs
He has the talent to be a pro bowler eventually but of course that will depend a lot on him maturing, his work ethic and attitude. Those are question marks right now with me. Only time will tell.
In Romo we Trust
Maturing I get...
but never have heard anything bad about his work ethic.
I don’t know where you get that from.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
Also anyone who ever refers to Dez Bryant as a Dez Dispenser owes me a dollar.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on May 12, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
If the coaches are to be believed (which is a debatable topic) then I wouldn't
worry too much about Dez’s work ethic based off what Ray Sherman has said.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on May 12, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I've probably said this about a billion times but...
A second-team academic all-Big 12 selection is not something that they just hand to anyone.
I don’t know what this guy is going to be like, but I was listening to Dan Patrick the other day and he made a good point, if you’re going to criticize him for some of the immaturities you have to commend him for the obstacles he stepped over to get to this place.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
Also anyone who ever refers to Dez Bryant as a Dez Dispenser owes me a dollar.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on May 12, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
based on reports during the draft
that Dez didn’t always finish routes or plays and didn’t always give 100%. Hopefully him being drafted so late will put a chip on his shoulder and make him a much harder worker in the NFL.
In Romo we Trust
Be careful with reports.
I also read a report that said he didn’t run across the middle which is complete baloney.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
Also anyone who ever refers to Dez Bryant as a Dez Dispenser owes me a dollar.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on May 12, 2010 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I remember Charlie Casserly making a similar comment
which I found interesting since so many of his catches came on slants and crossing routes. Just go watch a highlight reel of his and you will see just how he likes going over the middle.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on May 12, 2010 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions
With Austin, Witten RW, Dez, MBIII, The Cat, Choice, hopefully Bennett, and sprinkle in some PC, and Tree
I do not think there will be enough touches for anyone to have gaudy numbers.
How about RW's touches go to someone, anyone else?
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
30 catchess, 400 yards, 3 TDs
Dez is going to be a monster for us for years to come, but let’s not forgot how many weapons this team has and how hard it will be for Dez to come in and make a huge impact. Very rarely do rookie WRs do this, and for good reason. If Dez does enough to solidify himself as the starter opposite Roy this season, it will be a success.
I'll live and die with number 9....
If Dez does enough to solidify himself as the starter opposite Roy this season, it will be a success.
You expect Dez to be competing with Austin, not Roy, for the starting position? Or did I misunderstand?
I'm with you.
He had to mean Miles…
Semper Fi Do or Die
by Jeremiah_24 on May 11, 2010 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
You think he will only average 13.3 yards a catch.
I can see him not having as many catches as we would like to believe but I think they will be of the big play type. You miss a tackle and this kid is gone.
KICK ASS every day!!!
60 rec 790 yards 6 TDs, 2 return TDs
These are Percy Harvin’s stats from last year not including rushing yards and Percy was huge for the Vikings. If Dez can put up numbers similar to this I’d be very happy. Like the Vikings last year we have a lot of mouths, I think it’s unrealistic to expect much more.
LOL, I'm fine with having a lot of mouths to feed
As long as the ones that don’t produce like they should keep quiet when their “sustenance” is given to the mouths that do produce.
Good reasoning though, if Dez had those numbers I’d be very pleased. It’ll be interesting to see what the Fantasy leagues do with him.
I'm looking for Dez as a late-round pick-up in my FF
… I picked up Austin just to ride the bench in one of my FF leagues … I’d die if he begins to get the starts and some Giants fan grabs him in my NY area family/friends league!
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
65 rec, 850 yards, 11 TDs
Roy will continue to falter and Dez will take over for him as the #2 WR by the 3rd or 4th game. Dez catches everything thrown his way and I can see him being a huge threat in the end zone and completely take over Roy’s role. Call me unrealistic, but the way that Roy can’t seem to hold onto a ball, and how Dez always seems to catch the ball and knows how to control his body, Dez will have a huge year and so will Romo.
35 rec., 650 yds, 4tds
Too many mouths to feed, too much of a learning curve, too much determination to stick with RW. Hope RW can have his breakout year, but I think we have seen what we are going to get. Regardless of their determination with RW, I think Dez is too special to keep down too long and hopefully will push him out of the lineup and even the team. Have a feeling our man Tree is going to be the one who suffers somewhat because of Dez, not RW.
45 rec., 820 yards, 7 TDs
The only thing holding him back is his poor route running. The post of fly pattern doesn’t exactly take much skill, though.
Greetings from the Humungus, the Ruler of the Wasteland, the Ayatollah of Rock and Roll-A. I laugh at your puny plans.
38 rec., 596 yards, 7 TDs
That’s Roy’s stat-line from his oh-so-mediocre 2009 season.
With all the options at Romo’s disposal, it will be hard for Dez to generate massive numbers… but he should be able to improve on this stat-line if he is getting enough reps. Remember Roy losing time to Ogletree last year? Dez will get those reps and more this year.
There’s a famous line in North Carolina – only Dean Smith could keep Michael Jordon under 20 points. Well, it’s gonna be the same here – only JG can keep Dez under this stat line.
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
40 rec 550 yds receiving 8 tds,
And 3 or 4 td’s on special teams
... I like your special teams prediction ... memories of Neon Dieon returning punts :)
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
3 special teams TDs
35 rec, 6 TDs recieving, 1 TD run (seems like an end around waiting to happen)
by AustonianAggie on May 11, 2010 10:32 AM CDT reply actions
Jeremiah and UNecessary Roughness,
Semper Fi from another DevilDog on here (Ret.) I think the sky’s the limit for Dez, but the way our coaches use rookies, I see him playing a smaller role than if RW wasn’t on the roster with that fat a$$ contract. I have to admit I was excited when we got Roy, though not for the price we paid. But it looks like I was wrong about him and I hope Dez has a killer year!
Roger Staubach was the original Captain Comeback......alas, I am but a Cheap Imitation.
Formerly JAHII
Thanks to OCC, Sublimz and others for the avatars!
by CapnComebackII on May 11, 2010 10:34 AM CDT reply actions
Semper Fi Hard Charger!
Whether you think you can or you think you can't either way your right
by UnNessecsary Roughness on May 11, 2010 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Semper Fidelis Killer!
Semper Fi Do or Die
by Jeremiah_24 on May 11, 2010 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
OOOOHHHHRAHHH!!!
You know, alot of people on here have been saying Crayton may get let go but I hope if RW continues to struggle, they keep PC and let RW go. Not only does that make much more sense financially, but I’ve always liked Crayton as a clutch player when Romo is in trouble. Unfortunately, JJ’s ego can get in the way of these types of things.
Roger Staubach was the original Captain Comeback......alas, I am but a Cheap Imitation.
Formerly JAHII
Thanks to OCC, Sublimz and others for the avatars!
by CapnComebackII on May 11, 2010 10:43 AM CDT reply actions
+1
I hate to see productive people get pushed out into the cold while fat cats get to layup in the big house next to the fire.
The way I see next season should be Austin, Dez, Crayton…. Then after this season the Official 3 Amigo’s Austin, Dez, Olgetree
Whether you think you can or you think you can't either way your right
by UnNessecsary Roughness on May 11, 2010 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
If I were Garrett
I’d be really tempted to increase the pass/rush ratio beyond last year’s 57-43% in favor of throwing the ball…too many targets!
I dont think we will have to, 20 dropped balls equals roughly 60 plays lost.
More offense begets more offense. At least thats what Im hoping for.
KICK ASS every day!!!
the math/stats czar says not quite ...
you’re assuming no balls caught/dropped for less than a first down
… and no balls caught/dropped for a touchdown :)
Try not to get into a pissing match with a skunk :)
Does all the Cowboys talent help or hurt
Dez’s chances of having a big year. On one hand having proven talent will probably mean Dez doesn’t play against #1 CBs. But can we really have 3 1,000 yard receivers and a 1,000 yard rusher?
I think he will start kinda slow,
but as the season progresses and he and Romo get use to each other watch out.
Lot's of targets available for Romo
Still I think you see Dez getting more and more targets as the season progresses. By week 3-4 you’ll see Dez’s production surpass Roy’s. By seasons end you’ll see Dez’s production sneak up on, or even leapfrog Austin’s, not in seasonal totals, but individual games. I’d like to revisit this after training camp and make a new prediction, but my best guess now is
58 receptions
875 yards
9 WR TD’s possibly 1 or 2 ST TD’s
IMHO (in my homeristic opinion) I think you’ll see Dez’s YPC drop lower than expected because he’ll make some ridiculous grabs, where other receivers wouldn’t be able to come down with them, and then have no room to run after the catch. By year 2, 3 at the latest Dez will surpass Austin as the #1 as far as production goes. Again, I’d like to revisit this after seeing what Dez does in TC.
After TC?
But you already made the name! Lol
Semper Fi Do or Die
by Jeremiah_24 on May 11, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Huh?
I reserve the right to increase his numbers, not decrease :)
by Dezstroyer88 on May 11, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh well in that case your name's safe!
Semper Fi Do or Die
by Jeremiah_24 on May 11, 2010 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh BTW
All of you make sure to take Romo as your fantasy QB this year
by Dezstroyer88 on May 11, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Its still 15 yards a catch. I just think he will break tackles even better than Austin.
He will also see lesser CBs early in the season.
KICK ASS every day!!!
His rookie success should be measured in....
….highlight-reel stiff-arms. Them big ol damn bear paws. If Asante Samuel gets the palming of his life, I’ll consider it a successful draft. Throw in Kenny Phillips and hell, why not, Antrel Rolle too.
Teach him, MBIII, Teach him!
Jerry makes the difference
While I understand all the reasoning behind Dez likely having a moderate rookie season as oppsed to a more phenomenal one statistically, I still lean towards the ladder. My reasoning? JJ. Yes our coaches r a little controlled about plkaying rookies (and even they sound sold on Dez) but Jerry has a point to prove, as far as recievers go he hears all the criticism from RW (SMH) and other bad aquisitions to those he missed on…uumm Randy; now he knows he has a stud and the decision to move up for Dez and not address the O-line or Safety position blah blah blah…I would bet the barn, the trailer and Betsy the Cow that he pressures the coaches to play him. He hinted for Felix to get playing time thro the medis and got his wish; well I believe Dez is next… Which leads me to wager on 75 catches 1200 yds 12 tds…3 special teams tds
by Bermystar on May 11, 2010 11:23 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
You make a point but as for your wager - don't bet your house
Jerry may influence some playing opportunities but the team still has to perform and rookies do not get accepted if pushed too hard by the owner and they are not producing. Dez will determine somewhat his playing time by learning the offense, proving he can be where Tony expects him to be, proving he can catch against NFL defenders and by proving he can block NFL defenders. It is a big stage and a big step up.
I think this is RWs last chance as a Cowboy.
Jerry wants to win too much to let the trade get in the way. This year the best player will play no matter the contract. If RW doesn’t produce he’s gone anyway.
+1
If I’ve learned anything about JJ i’ve learned he is a business man first. When you own the rights to market your team you better be damn sure you are putting out a product people will continue to support. If Roy boy doesn’t produce i do believe Jerry will pull the trigger regardless of contract… and I can see it happening mid season via trade too so as to avoid any cap penalties
- You heard it hear first *
RW Late Trading Deadline Trade for some low end picks to a team who’s number 1/2 went down.
Whether you think you can or you think you can't either way your right
by UnNessecsary Roughness on May 11, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I can see that happening
Especially since the SB is at home this season. If Dez is showing he’s capable of outproducing then JJ will likely put his foot down, and pride aside.
by Dezstroyer88 on May 11, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Dez is the player that will give JJ the opportunity to have "the best players will start" philosophy. JJ ego is too large
to allow RW to be beaten out by patrick or Kevin. Dez gives him an out, an out that lets him save face, because trading or cutting RW before the season is over will be admitting defeat. JJ is hoping Dez will soften the blow he will take as a GM, without Dez, I do think this team was going to try and force-feed RW again hoping for a different result.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
i hope that will be the case here.....
im hopin that some where in tc dez convinces everyone( most notably jj ) that he can handle the no 2 wr spot.
woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
I sure hope you're right.
JJ’s ego has definitely got to be torn…stick to his guns on a bad trade a couple seasons ago or prove to the world he was right to move up and take a WR with laundry.
Rabid and luvin' it
by lonewolfz28 on May 11, 2010 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions
100 catches 1,400 yards and 13 tds
That is my conservative estimate
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Except when we meet the Rams in the playoffs
And Pro-Bowler OLB Bobby Carpenter blankets him with amazing coverage and shuts him down, right? hahaha
by Blue Eyed Devil on May 11, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
ROFL
I just busted a gut at work and now people think I’m challenged. Thanks a lot.
Semper Fi Do or Die
by Jeremiah_24 on May 11, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
hahahhaahahahah
woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
Is he going to find a cure for cancer too?
I like your optimism but wow that is a good season
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
Dez is, at best, our 3rd reciever
Miles Austin and Jason Witten are miles ahead of him, they’re pro-bowlers.
There’s only so many balls to go around. He’s not going to have monster stats with those guys getting way more looks than him.
What we need out of Dez is a guy at the Z spot that can make defenses pay for selling out to cover WItten and Austin (which Roy couldn’t) and a guy that can make clutch catches when we need him.
If Dez only gets 400 yards but all of them are sticks-moving 3rd down completions, he’s an amazing amazing asset to our team. Football isn’t baseball, stats don’t tell the whole story… context is huge. Where he makes plays is as important as how many he makes. If he can be our guy when Austin and Witten are covered that’s all this team needs to be nearly unstoppable.
by Blue Eyed Devil on May 11, 2010 11:36 AM CDT reply actions
I like the way you are thinking...
But Witten is a TE.
We could be baaaaaaaaaaad men with Witten out as a tight end and Austin, Bryant, Crayton as WRs. Oh Yeah, some high quality blocking to keep the D away from the Romonator
It doesn't matter what number you have on your chest
If you’re the #1 reciever you’re the number 1 reciever. Witten is the #2 reciever on this team. Just because he lines up next to a tackle instead of on the flank doesn’t change that.
by Blue Eyed Devil on May 11, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Which, by the way
Really puts things in perspective. He’s the #2 reciever on one of the best passing teams in the league and he’s one of the best blocking TEs in the league too.
I really feel that however much respect we fans have for Witten is still probobly too little. He’s such an amazing football player.
by Blue Eyed Devil on May 11, 2010 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
the best TE in the game without a doubt
Anyone who argues Gonzo or Gates is just kidding themselves.
In Romo we Trust
The last couple of years Gates has tailed off.....I don't consider him a top 3 TE anymore
"First rounders need to be starters" Jerry Jones.
agreed.. Gates is just a vertical TE, but seems to have slowed down alot the last two years..
"First rounders need to be starters" Jerry Jones.
Roy still thinks he`s number 1
http://www.dallascowboys.com/multimedia/multimedia_center.cfm?id=8F479F66-DA30-48F5-0F7F7D291B66F6D3
we know he`s never birdied so he`s probably a better golfer than football player, still thinks he`s the number 1 wr on the team so he must be blind and missed seeing Miles Austin play, he`s sporting a playoff beard…for the NBA playoffs, is not interested in finding chemistry with Romo in practice, he justs wants to start the season off with week1…with ever who they play??? ( it`s such a great mystery…to Roy) so apparently he sees no need to improve on last yr`s performance, just pick things up where they left off from last season.
Dream big for the guy or Dream small it all depends on the Grunts on the line,
and success there my friends will mean success for years to come; regardless of who runs the routes!
my take ....
i believe that dez will most contribute on chain movers and short outs and hooks and some slants, and given that jj wants to see em more as im sure wade does as well, hes goin to be given the opportunity to show what he can do. i hope romo was watchin those acrobatic catches, because if hes pressured in the pocket he might not always get the ball on the money, and thats where dez jus might create some confidence from romo early. if rw doesnt produce early to jj expectations i see dez takin his spot b4 seasons end as well. i belive that would make jj, wade and romo happy, because its jus a matter of time anyways. 47 catches-700 plus yrds 8 tds- st 2 rtns for tds.
woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
rookie of the year....
may hinge on when the broncos wr gets his start , he may have greater numbers due to more opportunity as opposed to dez starting no 3 and the options romo has in witen and miles.
woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
rookie of the year most likely will go to....
chargers rookie rb. largly cause im betting he will start…..he probably will be the likely choice
woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
"CJ" Spiller...
is fighting an uphill battle.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
Also anyone who ever refers to Dez Bryant as a Dez Dispenser owes me a dollar.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on May 11, 2010 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
Unless the Bills suddenly find a diamond of an O-Lineman in the dung pile. Not to mention having a couple other decent RB’s on the team to fight for carries.
Rabid and luvin' it
by lonewolfz28 on May 11, 2010 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions
And...
having no QB hurts too. Maybe they’ll run the triple option.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
Also anyone who ever refers to Dez Bryant as a Dez Dispenser owes me a dollar.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on May 12, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Just read a Todd Archer posting about the Patriots draft...
The BTS footage showed that the Patriots initiated the trade with Dallas for the 24th spot, not Dallas. Apparently, the Cowboys weren’t trying too hard to get Dez. It also showed the common Patriot practice of trading down to get additional/future picks (smart but something many Cowboy fans are annoyed by…) before they took the corner they wanted…McCourty.
I wonder who got the better end of the deal? The Patriots prevented the Ravens from taking Dez, got additional an additional pick, and picked McCourty closer to where (even we) had him slotted. Looks good., except I still think the Cowboys fared better in this case. Why? Is McCourty an impact player? The Patriots recent drafts haven’t prevented them from “falling” in talent level to 2 AFC East teams…recent decisions in draft/free agency have come with mixed results.
Are the Cowboys scouting department correct or is NE’s? McCourty was a 2nd rounder on our board. 2 years ago, I would be concerned over this revelation because I trusted the Patriot’s player acquisition department over all other teams…I don’t think that anymore… I like how we let the draft come to us…
4 Players in the top 62
New England selected 4 players in the top 62 this year. In the last two years we’ve only drafted 2 players in the first two rounds. I’d say they’re probobly pretty happy with the draft.
The only mistake I think they made was stockpiling four 7th round picks. I think they should have packaged their picks more to move around or get an extra pick in the 3rd and 4th rounds to get quality, not quantity.
But what do I know, I don’t have any Lombari trophies.
by Blue Eyed Devil on May 11, 2010 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
In 2009 and 2010 combined
The Patriots made 24 draft picks. The Jets made 7.
Different strategies, but which is better?
by One.Cool.Customer on May 11, 2010 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly the point I was trying to make OCC...but not as succinctly as you did....
Say what you will about the Cowboy’s draft/free agent acquisitions…but we have been steadily improving…what we did to the Eagles last year…I didn’t dare to dream of it happening the way it did…
Number of picks not the full story
24 seventh round picks is clearly worse than 7 first round picks.
Total value is a function of both number of picks and where the picks are.
The Patriots got both, number of picks (four picks) and high picks (in the first two rounds) and that is mighty fantatic, mighty fantastic. As your own average draft value chart showed, OCC, there’s very very nice value in the second round.
We’re going crazy about Sean Lee… imagine having 3 players the quality of Sean Lee going into OTAs, that’s what the Patriots think they got. I imagine they’re mighty happy with that, I would be.
by Blue Eyed Devil on May 11, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Dude, you're expounding how great having an abundance of picks is...it's great, but only if you do something with it.
What has been the Patriot’s results, lately? Is Patriot’s “player acquisition” really as great as many think it is?
If they can't evaluate talent
Then all the picks in the world won’t help.
But their strategy has been sound. If there isn’t someone they love at the spot they’ll just shift on down and grab more picks. I think their biggest mistake was not using the ammo they stockpiled to move around and grab more high-quality players. Dallas did an excellent job of moving around and grabbing the players they wanted, Dez and Lee. I think the Pats could have done a better job of using that ammo once they accumulated it instead of sticking with 4 seventh round picks.
Now, did they select the right players with the picks? That’s a completely different question and I don’t know enough about the Pats or their target players to say.
by Blue Eyed Devil on May 11, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
If they can’t evaluate talent, then all the picks in the world won’t help…
This is the point…no one will argue that they have been good over the past decade…winning 3 Superbowls puts an exclamation point on that…but they are not the same team right now because they haven’t been able to replenish/replace the key players they have lost (Vrabel, Bruschi, ect). The Pat’s are a model organization, but based on recent results, teams are catching up…
Now, I may be interpreting your posts incorrectly, but it seems that you expound how great the Pat’s are, but minimize how fallible they have been in recent years. I for one, am not so sure they shouldn’t have taken Dez Bryant with the 24th pick…it might have put that offense back to 2007 levels (age of Moss and injury to Welker) and covered up weaknesses in their defense. If Dez is 60% of what we think he is, our top 5 offense will be pretty unstoppable, and the Pat’s may have eased our path into next year’s Superbowl.
Contradicts what Jerry said. Jerry said he initiated the move up.
"First rounders need to be starters" Jerry Jones.
I never heard Jerry say that...maybe he initiated it earlier and was rebuffed then the Patriots reinitiated...
…but taped footage shows the Pats initiating…
After the draft one of the DC.com shows said Jerry moved up and initated when Dez slid to the 20's...
Jerry was making calls before the 24th pick to move up
"First rounders need to be starters" Jerry Jones.
Again, I never heard Jerry say he initiated the move,,,it doesn't matter, I think we have been drafting well as of late...
…and would have had a good 2010 draft, regardless.
One thing that will hold Dez back
He will not run a full route tree — And I hope the coaches don’t try to forcefeed him. He’ll run 3-4 routes (which is 1 or 2 more than Roy), and he’ll catch the ball (which is better than Roy).
hhehehehe,, agreed, move dez along at a pace he can flourish in and let him make his strides....
woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
Ogletree
Doesn’t run a full route tree. The coaches know what’s up. They know one precise route is better than two average routes.
Ray Sherman is a smart guy. Look what he did with Miles Austin. With the potential of Dez Bryant I’m very excited to watch his evolution as a playmaker over the next 3 years.
by Blue Eyed Devil on May 11, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think the route running will hold him back in DAL's offense
With Austin and Witten taking the majority of passes, Dez will be limited anyway. He just needs a handful of plays to shine.
I definitely don’t think Garrett will move him along faster than he can handle. If Ogletree’s and Austin’s progress are the examples to look at, Dez will be brought along probably a bit slower than we’d like.
Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Felix Jones = defensive coordinator's Kobayashi Maru scenario
by APerfectStar on May 12, 2010 5:55 AM CDT up reply actions
This is true
we’ve seen this movie before. Garrett was slowwwwwly introduce Dez into the offense based on Dez’s comfort level with his assignments. As Bryant gets comfortable – and if he’s productive – he’ll get a little more. But with a veteran team that already has ample weapons, I don’t see them rushing the kid into action.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
I'm hoping for DeSean Jackson-lite + TDs
And by lite, I also mean without the bonehead plays like dropping the ball before scoring.
Still, 16 games, 62 rec, 912 yards, 2 TD’s is pretty impressive.
How about 16 games, 52 rec, 775 yards, 5 TD’s ?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
wonder if...
denver puts their1st no 1 the wr to start or will they do him like dez and put em in at no 3 ?
woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
14 TDs, and I don't care how many catches or yards
I think Dez’s greatest impact his first year (other than special teams) will be in the Red Zone. We were horrible there last year, in part because our recievers (esp. RW, Bennett) were not very dependable (or not in sync with the QB). Witten wasn’t his normal TD machine- I assume because defenses were taking him out of the equation. With Dez’s hands and ability to go up for the ball, he doesn’t need to learn the whole route tree- he just has to learn the fade, the slant, and the comeback routes really well and he could become a favorite Romo target where we need help the most.
Wow...
I was thinking the same thing.
I think he has a nice # of catches and yards, but it wouldn’t suprise me if they had him ALOT in the Red Zone.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
Also anyone who ever refers to Dez Bryant as a Dez Dispenser owes me a dollar.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on May 11, 2010 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
My 2 cents
I don’t see Dez as a starter so I go low on expectations maybe 550 yds 40 receptions for 6 TDs.
As our original posters has shown rookie WRs haven’t had too much success in thier first year.I had DeShawn Jackson his rookie year in fantasy football and he didn’t do much untill the last six games.
We have a wealth of WRs and don’t have to push Dez to start.I see him as more of a red zone threat as the guy can really jump out of the house.
I would think Hurd will be traded as he is younger than Crayton and is a good ST player.
Bring on Cincy so we can see what we got.
by TCB Orange Dino on May 11, 2010 7:07 PM CDT reply actions
That would be a pretty good year though.
If he is a 3rd wideout that has 550 and 6 tds… it’ll be goood
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
Also anyone who ever refers to Dez Bryant as a Dez Dispenser owes me a dollar.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on May 11, 2010 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, that would be a nice rookie year.
Add to the fact that Coach Joe D got his PR team to open up holes for Crayton last year, and we might see Dez get a few TDs on special teams as well.
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on May 12, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions
120 catches, 1400 yards, 22 TD's, entered into the Ring of Honor-anyone expecting less is a doubter.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
Actually, those are my predictions for MartyB's season.
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on May 12, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions
lol!
Or maybe Roy Williams?
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
by Realist Larry on May 12, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
So......
When are you planning on changing your name? lol
by Pnut Gallery on May 12, 2010 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't understand why they would talk him up
Where is the upside?
- increases the risk he asks for “Top 10/15” contract a la crabtree last year
- raises expectations and thus pressure on Bryant and the coaches
- risks creating attitude problems with Bryant
Why would you do it if you were a coach?
"Where's Woody? - We need another Darren Woodson
Sell jerseys, tickets, and make your boss happy?
Or perhaps Dez is simply that good…and the NFL should be more scared of him than the other way around.
by Left Coast Cowboy on May 12, 2010 2:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, since he does share the same airhead agent with Crabtree.....
…It’s a remote possibility but Crabtree’s grievance was that he wanted the same money the guy picked four spots ahead of him (Heyward-Bey at 6th overall) got. By that rationale, the only insistence Dez’s agent can make is that he get Demariyus Thomas (or 22nd pick) money. Nothing to worry about there, really.
Not to mention
Crabtree wasn’t overly thrilled with the idea of going to S.F.
Dez is ecstatic to be coming to the Cowboys. He’s already said he can’t wait to get going. I doubt he’ll be the one holding up contract negotiations.
Rabid and luvin' it
And based on what I've heard him say
he wants to get into camp on time. Probably ticked off his agent. NOOOOOOO!!!!! Don’t tell them THAT!!!
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
It's all good
If he is a 3rd wideout that has 550 and 6 tds… it’ll be goood.
I look at the Saints and all the WRs they can put on the field and now feel we are thier equal.
One example of a first year WR would be Meacham who did nothing for his first two years.Other than Colston you never know who will put up the stats.
This year is about Ws and I feel very good about this team.
by TCB Orange Dino on May 11, 2010 11:33 PM CDT reply actions
55 / 750 / 7
My head tells me I’m being too optimistic…but my gut tells me this kid really is something special, and not someone to bet against.
by Left Coast Cowboy on May 12, 2010 2:46 AM CDT reply actions
Dez should be the slot WR to open the season if Crayton is gone
If Crayton stays, I think they split time from the slot, with Dez taking the majority of snaps towards the end of the season.
I’ll say 40 rec 600 yds 7 TD (including punt returns) splitting time with PC.
I expect a few big punt returns out of Dez also. As talented as he is at WR, he might be even better as a returner.
Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Felix Jones = defensive coordinator's Kobayashi Maru scenario
40 for 650, 9 TD.
Or 48 for 820 if he finds himself occupying a starting spot by mid-season. Of course, the former is probably more tempered and realistic with or without Crayton cutting into the pie. Two key factors: 1.) Obviously, Garrett’s penchant for bringing along young skill players and inserting them into the offense at his own preferred pace. 2.) A more mature Romo having to develop and gradually build that trust with Dez before he trusts him enough to pull the trigger and stick the ball to him in certain key situations.
I’m thinking that if Dez is as good as advertised, even if he takes time to adjust to the pro game, with Austin and Witten commanding all the attention they do and especially if Felix is able to stay healthy, just on sheer talent, Dez will have plenty of opportunities for a dozen or so big plays or 20-40+ yards.
I actually think Dez will make a greater impact as a returner
since we haven’t had any really good ones in a while. I see him scoring more on returns than TD receptions.
In Romo we Trust
I could see Dez at least matching other NFC East 1st Round WRs
Hakeem Nicks (29th overall in ’09) caught 47 for 790 and 6TDs
Jeremy Maclin (19th overall) caught 56 for 773 and 4TDs
Other ‘09 first-round WRs’ numbers:
Heyward-Bey (7th overall) caught 9 for 124 and 1TD
Crabtree (10th) 48 for 625 and 2TDs
Percy Harvin (22nd) 60 for 790 and 6TDs
Kenny Britt (29th) 42 for 701 and 3TDs
And like Dez is expected to, most of these guys also contributed substantially to their teams in the special teams department.
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
Weren't most of those guys starting receivers though?
My concern that RW might stay healthy and severely limit Dez’s snap count.
Oh, and for all the “we’re gonna play the BPA” outta Valley Ranch…after looking at Colombo’s #’s in the 2 playoff games last year he looked much worse than Free, but still got the reps.
by Left Coast Cowboy on May 12, 2010 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I can't recall who said it but
I heard someone from the team say that they wanted to put Free in for Colombo but couldn’t after Flo went down. So I think maybe it would have happened.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Interesting, I hadn't heard that...but don't find it hard to believe.
But if you look at the stat lines on Free vs. Colombo in the back-to-back games vs. Philly:
- Free gave up 1 QB hit (no sacks, no hurries); then Colombo gave up 1 sack, 1 hit, and 3 hurries, the next week
- Against Minny Colombo gave up 2 sacks, 2 hits and 6 hurries vs. compared to only 2 hurries given up by Free (in 2/3’s as many snaps).
Given the disparity in on-field performance, I would expect the coaches to notice the difference in practice too. And to have had Colombo on a shorter leash since Tony’s health depended on him.
by Left Coast Cowboy on May 13, 2010 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions
It might have been Gil Brandt quoting a source
But I was surorised that Free was sitting to start the Eagles’ game based on Free’s performance.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
I have to agree with both of you ... Free seemed the more logical guy to start
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
That doesn't make me happy to read
In the excitement of thrashing the Iggles in back to back games, I missed Colombo’s performance. I just figured he did alright, shook of some rust and was at, or nearly at, his level of performance prior to the broken leg.
But now after reading more in depth about how mediocre his performance was in comparison to Free, I really wonder why Free wasn’t in the MIN game from the start. Flo wasn’t injured until the 2nd Q if I remember right. Perhaps Dallas completes a couple drives before then, if Colombo isn’t getting destroyed by Edwards. With 10 or 14 points on the board in the 1st Q, it would have really changed the way the rest of the game unfolded.
Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Felix Jones = defensive coordinator's Kobayashi Maru scenario
by APerfectStar on May 14, 2010 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh Dez
I saw him rack himself on a hurdle one night on the track outside the Colvin Recreational Center at OK State. The other two guys with him were making fun of him and how he jumped hurdles in high school. I guess one of them was from Lufkin also.

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