Big Ball

by DavidH22 on May 18, 2010 11:18 AM CDT

Actually, Ball is kind of small. Alan Ball, that is.

I saw him listed at 6"1' 188 lbs. That seems about 15-20 lbs too light to play FS. Although I read that the coaches are excited about his playmaking ability. Of course Wade Phillips and Dave Campo, et al know better than I what makes for a playmaking FS, but I cannot recall Ball ever making any game-changing plays in his brief tenure (just 3 starts) in the Cowboys defensive backfield. I do remember him giving up Darrius Heyward-Bey's first (and likely last) NFL touchdown. And I saw recently that he had two interceptions in his four-year college career. Two.

I guess this is why many of us are up in arms that Jerry hasn't signed or pursued a serious free agent safety, or why many of us are hoping that AkwasiAkwasi Owusu-Ansah can make the switch quickly from college CB to NFL safety.

Am I missing something with Ball? I didn't come away from watching him play last season and think "wow, there's our next starting FS, we are set now for the next few years." Or did I just miss something? I guess he couldn't do much worse in terms of ball-hawking skills as Ken Hamlin did the last two seasons...

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I'm pretty sure I saw him in some

pass break ups. He seems to cover really well. As to the question about whether he’s physical enough to spend a season at FS, that’s definitely the great unkown.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on May 18, 2010 11:54 AM CDT reply actions

Yup and during the Philly playoff game

The commentators remarked that Ball looked better in the couple of series he played than Hamlin did.

One play in particular they said Hamlin never could have made.

by Travlr on May 19, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions

Wade addressed that in his press conference yesterday

Here’s what he said:

“His [Ball’s]forte is movement. He’s a corner playing playing safety, so he can run […] His tackling, because of his size, is really the only drawback on him […] I think he’s going toi be a really good FS type guy, and since our FS wasn’t involved in a lot of tackling anyway, no, I’m serious, our front seven is pretty strong, and when we looked at it, our FS wasn’t really involved in it. We involved him some, but they never got to him”

can blitz with him more, it gives you more freedom to blitz because he’s a corner playing back there. So now you have him and Sensabaugh who can cover really well. Now you can cover everyone [WR’s TEs and RBs] one on one and bring everyone else. So that gives us more freedom when he’s back there."

The mothership has the full presser here

by One.Cool.Customer on May 18, 2010 12:53 PM CDT reply actions

Listening to Talkin' Cowboys the other day,

Mickey Spags said both Ball and Mike Hamlin look more solid. like they both added a bunch of muscle.

Trust them...they know what they're doing.

by Aaron Novinger on May 18, 2010 12:55 PM CDT reply actions

I am not too worried about Ball with Wade having the defensive play-calling responsibility.

Wade will know how to play to his strengths and our defense is pretty strong around Ball. I might have been worried had this been the situation going into last year, but I have put my faith in Wade after last season’s performance by our defense.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on May 18, 2010 1:18 PM CDT reply actions

The only thing I think Wade needs to work on

is finding a way to create more turnovers (even though that probably has more to do with the individual players) and finding a way to stop the freaking Giant’s offense.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on May 18, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions

love your sig

Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK

by HudBaby on May 20, 2010 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions

Thank you very much.

I can’t take full credit for it though. My sister told it to me based off something she heard on facebook and it instantly became my favorite quote.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on May 22, 2010 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions

he's good.. Playd at least to Hamlin..

level last year in a four game run(Also dont forget Ball started aganist the Saints so thats major kudos)

here is a few size comparsion of a few verteran and respected FS in the NFL

Atowge- 5’11 205
J.Bryd – 5’10 201
ed reed – 5’11 200
kerry rhodes – 6’3 211
Brandon Meriweather- 5’11 200
Troy .P 5’10 207

here is a size projection of drafted FS

Eric Berry – 6’0 211
Earl Thomas – 5’10 208
Taylor Mays – 6’3 230
Nate Allen – 6’0 207
Morgan.B – 6’1 209

What i see here is a nice size safety is 200 lbs.. But also notice sum safties that are playn today that are productive is not over 6’0..

Not sayn its bad but what i see is a great frame that Ball has… Coming of a season at 6’1 188 lbs ..bulk up 13 lbs he will be perfect and ideal size for a safety in my eyes.
Some where around 6’0 + to 200 -215lbs
.

sum of the top drafted safties are very nice in size and weight.This might be a reason y this was a great safety draft. They are tall and stock… ideal size safeties in my eyes.

Also note i bet a coool million Ball and his trainers went to work with him as soon as the season ended on reshaping him

Put in his experience at CB and another year at FS this might be our best chance and more cap friendly choice at FS this season.

Another thing Wade dont like putting anyone out there they have doubts about ex..Bobby.C
If Wade feel great about him i say let him fly.. Wade felt the same way about A.Spencer and look how that paid off.

by lostar2009 on May 18, 2010 6:19 PM CDT reply actions

So is Ball guaranteed the starting spot opposite Sensabaugh?

Or does Hamlin have a shot in camp?

Movie Reference

by accidental innuendo on May 18, 2010 7:36 PM CDT reply actions

I'd say Ball is the favorite to win the spot, I doubt they would already have him penciled in

Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Felix Jones = defensive coordinator's Kobayashi Maru scenario

by APerfectStar on May 18, 2010 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions

I think this is one position where there's some real competition

but I’d say Ball has a big leg up just because he has started 4 games, and he played well. So they have confidence in him and are more likely to trust him to start the season than a completely untested rookie/redshirt, unless Hamlin or AOA were to really impress in camp.

As far as his size, one thing is that he seems to be a very good tackler in spite of his size, and also the way they play the FS is most often center fielder and not usually up mixing it up in the box. As Wade noted in his interview with Spags on the Blitz today I think, the FS doesn’t often have to make that many tackles in run support because we have such a strong front 7. Of course if the guy does get to his level you want him to be able to save the TD, but he seems to be a good open field tackler, evidenced also by the fact that he’s one of our best ST players as well.

by scottmaui on May 19, 2010 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions

Maybe OCC knows

Because he did the stat breakdown of the safeties. But I wonder how many of Hamlin’s tackles the past couple seasons have been made “in the box”?

In 2007 he had 45 solo tackles
in 2008 he had 53 solo tackles (probably more than normal due to the carousel of starters at SS)
In 2009 he had 40 solo tackles (12 games)

If you figure at most, about half came in the run game that’s around 20-25 per season. Not very much, if this unscientific method is anywhere close to accurate.

Isn’t Ball the gunner on coverage teams? I know Hurd is on one side, but I’m not sure if Ball is the other. You need to be pretty physical to do that job.

Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Felix Jones = defensive coordinator's Kobayashi Maru scenario

by APerfectStar on May 19, 2010 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions

yeah he's been the gunner

and done it well. i remember in the final regular season game vs Philly, as the right gunner on a punt he beat 2 blockers and made a great double ankle tackle on D. Jackson for no return.

by scottmaui on May 19, 2010 2:00 AM CDT up reply actions

And how many misses did he have on top of those?

We need to be looking at total opportunities here.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on May 19, 2010 2:18 AM CDT up reply actions

Some disturbing coverage stats for our safeties

From Pro Football Focus

According to this, opposing QB ratings were over 100 when targeting any of our safeties – Ball, Hamlin, Sensabaugh or Watkins – last year. This puts us squarely in the bottom 25% of the league for safety coverage. When you add the fact that all our safeties combined were credited with just 1 turnover (1 INT, 0 FF), this seems like a bigger area of concern than many here are willing to admit.

Ball can be argued to be the best of the bunch in coverage (QB rating against of only 103), but it’s not saying much. At least his last game as a starter (against San Diego) was his best, so his brief trendline offers some hope for a better 2010.

Would love to a 2nd data set to help validate or refute these #‘s, but don’t know anywhere else that tracks detailed coverage stats like these. Until then, I’ll keep beating the drum for Atogwe – hoping we get him, and he passes his physical.

by Left Coast Cowboy on May 18, 2010 9:52 PM CDT reply actions

I would think that the second is the reason for the first

According to this, opposing QB ratings were over 100 when targeting any of our safeties – Ball, Hamlin, Sensabaugh or Watkins – last year. This puts us squarely in the bottom 25% of the league for safety coverage. When you add the fact that all our safeties combined were credited with just 1 turnover (1 INT, 0 FF), this seems like a bigger area of concern than many here are willing to admit.

Our safeties couldn’t create turnovers, and therefore opposing passer ratings against them are very high.

RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.

by aussie_cowboy on May 18, 2010 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Good Point

In most other areas – completion % against, yards, TDs, etc. – they seem pretty average, not great but not horrible either. The lack of turnovers would seem the biggest reason they go from average to way below average in pass coverage.

by Left Coast Cowboy on May 19, 2010 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions

Sensi's cast

keep in mind that Sensi had at least 3 balls hit him directly in the hands when he was wearing his cast, and bounce right off his cast. He was in position, and if he wasn’t wearing the cast, all of them would probably have been picks. And you can hardly blame the guy for that. So just something to keep in mind, he was in position more than it shows and his cast kids of skews the turnover rate even lower than it would have been otherwise. Still not great maybe, but not quite as bad.

by scottmaui on May 19, 2010 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions

I give Sensi a pass too because of that

He definitely can get into position to make plays, there is no doubt IMO, that he’d have had a couple more INT’s without the cast. He had 4 INT’s in 2008 with JAX, so we know he can catch. He does need to practice on locating the ball better in coverage (see MIN game), but even that play showed his range. He was step for step with Rice, and in perfect position to make a play if he’d have turned his head in time to find the football.

Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Felix Jones = defensive coordinator's Kobayashi Maru scenario

by APerfectStar on May 19, 2010 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions

yeah that play looked bad

but it was an anomaly with him, like you said in position just not looking for the ball.

by scottmaui on May 19, 2010 1:47 AM CDT up reply actions

It's unfortunate it's one of the only clips they show of him

when they talk about our secondary on NFLN or ESPN.

Epic Fail since 1985

by the red scare on May 19, 2010 3:24 AM CDT up reply actions

I'm not worried about Sensi.

I expected much worse than what he gave us last year, and he had limitations.

Semper Fi Do or Die

by Jeremiah_24 on May 19, 2010 5:57 AM CDT up reply actions

Big Ball...s

hafta do it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjkJfMrQ4bc

one of the most hilarious fun rock songs ever

by scottmaui on May 19, 2010 12:31 AM CDT reply actions

I remember thinking ball played fairly well at corner

I don’t think he represents an upgrade over Ken Hamlin at FS or anything like that, but he’s solid enough. He did have that one monster hit in the KC game that got him flagged despite the fact that he shouldn’t have been.

I think Ball’s there until AOA or M.Hamlin are ready. I doubt he starts at FS all year. I think he’ll do just fine. Probably nothing spectacular, but nothing to get us beat. That’s all we can ask in order to not be a downgrade at the position. I would rather see him as our 4th corner, though. We look awfully thin there now…

Epic Fail since 1985

by the red scare on May 19, 2010 12:58 AM CDT reply actions

Maybe just maybe

AOA can advance enough his rookie year to get some starts in before next year, thus giving Ball his 4th corner ST gunner roles to focus on. That’s what my hope is. I’m really high on AOA he just seems like a ball player.

Semper Fi Do or Die

by Jeremiah_24 on May 19, 2010 5:56 AM CDT up reply actions

I think he may be the starter in 2011

maybe before the end of 2010, but he’s have to really catch on quick, coming from a small school

by scottmaui on May 19, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions

There's always that prayer...

Semper Fi Do or Die

by Jeremiah_24 on May 19, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions

that and missing OTA's

by Dezstroyer88 on May 20, 2010 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions

I don't think they have changed his weight from his rookie year

by bad knees on May 19, 2010 2:36 AM CDT reply actions

I think what you're missing is

completing overlooking Mike Hamlin as a player who can compete and beat out Ball as the starting FS. My money is on this kid to win the job and play very well this season and future years to come.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on May 19, 2010 10:49 AM CDT reply actions

I agree with Terry

…which also means today is that day that all of you could skip to the front of the line at the chairlift to the black diamond ski runs in hell.

Kidding aside, I think you cannot overlook Mike Hamlin. He came from a good program, was coached up and made plays on the ball against big time competition.

Hamlin is a far better prospect for the long term than Ball.

Safety is a position that is much more cerebral (and sometimes instinctive) than some others on defense. I think Hamlin has a head for the game.

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

by 5Blings on May 19, 2010 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions