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The Cowboys' Barron Trade: Of Tuckers, Petittis and Big Babys, Oh My!

Opinions of the Cowboys' imminent acquisition of offensive tackle Alex Barron vary wildly.  Fans on this site generally approve of the deal, while at least one Metroplex scribe seems highly dismissive of the move.

I believe a perspective check is in order, a need to curb your enthusiasm, if you appear overly giddy, or your pessimism, if the trade thus far leaves you cold.  Here are two recent scenarios which should bring Dallas' expectation (need?) for Barron into clearer focus.

2005:  Dallas enters camp with playoff hopes.  It anticipates a tackle tandem of Flozell Adams on the left and 2nd-year tackle Jacob Rogers on the right.  Bill Parcells' plans take an early blow when Rogers suffers a year-ending knee injury during training camp.  He's forced to enter the season with 6th-round pick Rob Petitti as his starting right tackle.  The team reasons that it can scheme around one inexperienced player.

The Cowboys offense was up and down the first month and a half but averaged 22.8 points and scored 28 or more points three times.

Then, Flozell Adams tore an ACL in a week-six overtime win over the Giants

Star-divide

Dallas now had to play with two stop-gap tackles.  New LT Torrin Tucker was just as overwhelmed as Petitti and the offense slowly leaked momentum.  It's points per game average dropped from 22.8 to 18.8.  Poor pass protection was the culprit; a line which gave up 2.2 sacks per game with Adams anchoring the blind side hemorrhaged 3.6 sacks per game with Tucker in Flozell's place. 

As OCC and I pointed out countless times last season, sacks are far more damaging to an offense than an offside or a holding penalty.  A flag may set a team back ten yards but it preserves the down.  Then-OC Sean Payton was very good at overcoming first and 20 (as is current OC Jason Garrett). 2nd and 19, is a whole different story.

Pass protection was vital to Dallas' success because cement-footed Drew Bledsoe played quarterback.  Dallas surrendered 49 sacks relying on the backup tackles and finished a win short of the post-season.

1995:  The golden age for the Dallas offensive line.  Four of the team's starters -- LT Mark Tuinei, LG Nate Newton, C Ray Donaldson and RG Larry Allen -- made the Pro Bowl that season.  If RT Erik Williams was not slowed by a rehabbing right knee, the entire line would have gone to Honolulu. 

Center Donaldson was the most pleasant '95 surprise.  The 37 year old former Colt was considered over the hill when the Cowboys signed him to replace Mark Stepnoski, but the wily vet dominated, until he dislocated an ankle in the Thanksgiving Day win over the Chiefs.  The Cowboys were 10-2 after that game, but knew their playoff fortunes rested on backup center Derek Kennard's game.  "

"Big Baby" as he was known, was Jerry Jones' second significant OL signing that spring, lured from the Saints to replace the departed Kevin Gogan.  Kennard battled to maintain an effective weight throughout his career and faded quickly mid-season.  Few noticed because Larry Allen played exemplary football once he became a starter. 

Many noticed, and held their breath, when Kennard took over for Donaldson.  Kennard wobbled, but he didn't fall down.  The Cowboys' running game dropped off from 149 yards-per-game with Donadson to 104 with Kennard in the pivot.  But the superb pass protection continued;  the Cowboys gave up just 18 sacks all year and their sack rate rose just slightly, from .92 per game with Donaldson to 1.2 per game with Kennard.

Kennard could play well in spurts and he brought his A-game for the NFC playoffs.  Dallas averaged 161 rushing yards per game in wins over the Eagles and Packers.  The Steelers corralled the Cowboys in the Super Bowl, holding them to 56 yards rushing, but the Cowboy passing game and Larry Brown's key picks compensated.

     *     *     *     *     *

An offensive line works as a unit, and that unit is only as good as its weakest link.  A line of five average players will play better than one with three Pro Bowlers and a dud or two in the other slots. The '95 line succeeded because Kennard was able to give the Cowboys' league-average performance in Donaldson's place.  The Big Baby represented a drop-off, but only a modest one.  In 2005, by contrast, Tucker's play meant the Cowboys had two replacement-level players to overcome.  Tucker's and Petitti's leaky pass protection sank the good ship Cowboys.

Dallas believes it has average to above average players on its starting line.  They team had no confidence in its depth.  An injury to Doug Free or Marc Colombo would put a Tucker or Petitti-esque player in the lineup.  A 2005 flashback is the organization's nightmare. 

Alex Barron should be viewed in this frame.  He has not been a world beater, but he's been durable and gives Hudson Houck an athletic, 320-pound block of clay to mold.  If Houck can shape another Big Baby, Big Alex Barron will look like a work of art to the Dallas faithful.  To be successful this season, that's all Barron really has to be.

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+1

hoping we never need him to play, but glad he’s there in case we do.

by scottmaui on May 9, 2010 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is better than depending on

Procter and McQuestrin. I don’t think we are through adding to the O line but we now don’t have to deal out of desperation.

by TCB Orange Dino on May 9, 2010 7:25 PM CDT reply actions  

more like Brewster and Sam Young, or moving Bigg out

McQuistan is done at OT and they’re just trying him at G now, and god forbid we had to ever see Proctor at OT.

by scottmaui on May 9, 2010 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's get past these physicals tomorrow.

This trade neither has me giddy, nor skeptical. I’m interested in hearing what he has to say once we get him to the Ranch.

When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.

by White Wolf on May 9, 2010 7:27 PM CDT reply actions  

I'm generally with Lebreton except I believe this deal makes us a tinsy bit better

since we have a plethora of linebackers yet we don’t have legit veteran depth at OT.

Barron gives us insurance. Best case scenario is Brewster, Young, or Tepper can excel in training camp and preseason so we won’t need that insurance policy, but if they can’t we still have Barron to fall back on.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on May 9, 2010 7:29 PM CDT reply actions  

I think Barron shuffled the competition for the interior spots

Could be wrong, but right now I see it this way:

LG — Kosier & Brewster
C — Gurode and Holland/Proctor/Bright
RG — Davis and Proctor/Tepper

by Rafael Vela on May 9, 2010 7:30 PM CDT reply actions  

Actually RG should be Holland /Tepper

they tried Holland at center last year, doubt he’ll make any improvement this year either.

They are trying Bright at center, and I feel he is the most likely candidate to replace Procter since his best asset is Procter worst asset: strength.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on May 9, 2010 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, they didn't

they were going to try Holland at C and aborted the move when Brewster got hurt.

They’re going to try it now.

by Rafael Vela on May 9, 2010 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good point Raf

This is one of the least documented but derided experiments on our o-line. The Cowboys media pokes themselves (Spags & friends) have suggested that the Holland at center experiment was quickly ditched due to lack of success/promise. BUT since fans never saw a second of it on the field, I’ve remained open to the idea. Plus, the only time I saw Holland on the field (at guard) he appeared to be more than serviceable till he was injured.

I’d be curious to find fact substantiating whether the Holland-at-center experiment truly failed last summer or if it never got started, as you mentioned above.

btw., considering how much the Cowboys are paying Holland (as much as $5m / 2 years), they must think he’s some ability.

by Eagles suck on May 9, 2010 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

the guy started

he wasn’t anything special as a starter but hey, he started in New Orleans and Denver. That counts for something.

He’s a lesser Kennard because he’s eaten himself out of jobs. The Broncos let him got cause he got up near 400 lbs. Remember, Dallas got him and it took 13 weeks of the season, not counting camp, before he made the lineup. We were all told he “needed time to learn the scheme,” but how hard is that for a guy who’s already played 4 years under two different systems. He’s learning guard, not Mandarin.

I can only guess the guy got serious about conditioning.

by Rafael Vela on May 9, 2010 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

"He's learning guard, not Mandarin."

ROFL Raf.

I have noticed a new resurgence in Cowboy hating in 2007, which can only mean one thing- We're back.

by nspirals on May 9, 2010 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do you think Brewster could start...

…if Kosier or Davis were injured? Also, how many offensive linemen do you think they’ll carry this year?

If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.

by GhettoBear04 on May 9, 2010 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nobody knows,

not even the team. He got hurt before he did any work in pads.

When he takes the field everybody is going to be watching closely.

by Rafael Vela on May 9, 2010 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

altho they have been pleased with his strength and conditioning work

he’s reportedly greatly improved his body shape and strength from last year:

When Brewster finally gets on the field, he will look like a different player. A doughy 320 pounds when drafted, Brewster has reworked his body through diligent work with strength and conditioning coach Joe Juraszek.

“It really hurt me to be out, because I had my dream of an opportunity to play in the NFL,” Brewster said. “But I realized I couldn’t let it eat me up. I had to make the best of it.”

The Cowboys believe Brewster can play every offensive line spot but center and could someday be the left tackle. For now, they envision him as needed line depth. Redshirt freshmen take it one step at a time.

(from DMN 4/26/10)

by scottmaui on May 9, 2010 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

If memory serves me...

Once he was hurt they didn’t move him to IR immediately. They still ‘wasted’ an IR/roster spot (so to speak, I know rules vary here as far as what counts as roster, but also can only have a few as just injured). They, at the time thought he might be back in time for late season. For them to do this on a rook makes me assume that they saw something special there to make it worth the wait.

by shaneshot on May 9, 2010 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

10 O-Linemen

Have always been carried under the Wade Phillips era. No more, no less.

With a glut of talented linebackers, 3 QBs, and an extra kicker on the roster don’t expect that number to expand. We have our 5 starters (if the injury bug stays away) so there’s 5 backup spots for the 11 other players to fight over.

I think it’s clear Alex Barron is on the team. Montre Holland is in, they paid him well to stick around. Robert Brewster is probobly in, the team was very high on him in training camp.

So if you look at it through that lens it means there’s really only 2 spots left for 8 players and they’re both probobly interior line spots.

by Blue Eyed Devil on May 10, 2010 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Steven jackson

Had to run behind something right?…..

Off topic,
I believe hudson houck when he said doug free has the mental makeup to be great in this league

by Cknbonenowison on May 9, 2010 7:30 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

confidence

I’ve heard some who watched tape closer than I say he really seemed to gain confidence with each game last season once he was forced in to start, and showed steady improvement with his game experience, so that bodes well for his switch to LOT this season.

by scottmaui on May 9, 2010 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

actually he didnt,

he merely mentioned his intrique about “this mcquistan.”

by THEjarhead on May 9, 2010 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah

that guy parcells sucked at coaching and evaluating talent. I mean, what other explanation is there for taking a laughing stock 5-11 team and turning it completely around?

In truth, he was very carefull about making promises about players on the roster and what they would become.

by THEjarhead on May 9, 2010 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

by turning it around

do you mean making it slightly above average? We only became a really good team when Wade got here.

And Jerry basically forced T.O. on Parcells. Think how crappy we would be in 2006 without T.O…

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on May 9, 2010 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Um yeah,

going from 5-11 for three seasons in a row to a winning record in 3 of his 4 seasons, I’d say thats turning it around.

This is an old, tired argument; pushed by fans who are pissed are parcells for not winning a SB. the dude is a first ballot hall of famer and some cowboys fans cant bash him enough.

i dont really get it, but then again i haven’t forgetten how bad the cowboys sucked in those years and how quickly parcells turned it around. he remains one of the best decisions JJ ever made in his tenure with the cowboys.

by THEjarhead on May 9, 2010 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bill Belichick had a lot to do with Parcells success

Parcells is an above average coach and Cowboys teams during his tenure reflected that.

Flame me as much as you want, but Parcells is overhyped

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on May 9, 2010 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Puh-lease

This is another tired argument.

Belechik has had the benefit of a great QB in NE. What did he do for the browns?

Dont get me wrong, I would agree the guy is a great coach, but giving him credit for all parcell’s past success makes no sense.

Parcells has succeeded everywhere he has been. so his teams haven’t won a SB every place, big deal. you cant turn the dregs of the league around over night. And make no mistake, dallas was the dregs of the league when he showed up. We’d still be wallowing below mediocrity had he not been hired.

by THEjarhead on May 9, 2010 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

he is good, but he is also responsible for all our paranoia about the o-line

in wade’s tenure, we’ve drafted marten (whiff), free (hit), brewster (?), and young (?). all we know is that we’re 1/2 which is fine. but we’re all terrified because all of parcells’ whiffs are still on our minds.

by blee on May 9, 2010 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Never said the guy didnt deserve criticism

and Oline drafts and FA signings are where the criticism is most well-founded.

by THEjarhead on May 9, 2010 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

and i just disliked his "guarantees"

feel free to correct me if i’m wrong, but wade says things like “jason williams looks good.” parcells would say things like “even if you turned jason fabini backwards, he wouldn’t give up _ sacks,” and then fabini would be a freaking turnstile. it just peeved me. that’s all i was saying.

by blee on May 9, 2010 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I never once recall

Parcells claiming any lineman wouldnt give up sacks. And you should have known better if he had.

by THEjarhead on May 9, 2010 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

He said he wouldn't give up 15 sacks

like Petiti had the previous year even if turned backwards.

by JimmyJohnson on May 9, 2010 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let it go man

the dude was a great coach. its known around the NFL, and his accomplishments are well documented.

by THEjarhead on May 9, 2010 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did he win those Superbowls with the unstoppable Giants offense

or Belichick’s defense?

I believe Belichick’s defensive game plan for one of those superbowls is in the hall of fame FYI.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on May 9, 2010 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, well that proves it then

I guess Parcells rode belicheks coattails all those years.

by THEjarhead on May 9, 2010 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

he sure did

glad you could finally see the light

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on May 9, 2010 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

actually, that was sarcasm

So no, I dont beleive that belichik made parcells. like i said, thats a tired argument, jumped on by cowboy’s fans who are pissed that parcells didnt win a SB while he was here.

I think JJT at the DMN would agree with you, but I wont.

by THEjarhead on May 9, 2010 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here Here

 Maybe he was great before Dallas, but from our Cowboys perspective, he sucked as a coach and was mediocre in the draft. However, I do think he helped Jerry in organizing a front office and scout department.

by VA Dallas Fan on May 9, 2010 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

Played games too close to the vest for me. But I don’t think it can be denied that he was huge in changing the culture.

by illcowboy on May 10, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

1986 the Giants offense was very good

Simms, Morris, Bavaro, that O-line…they scored 35 pts per game in their playoff run.

Besides, I give parcells credit for “discovering” Belicheck and guiding his career so he could blossom into the defensive coordinator and head coach that he eventually became.

by DavidH22 on May 10, 2010 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Of course, Belichick had LT, Carson and Marshall at his disposal.....

So how much genius did he really need to apply? Granted.

But a 3-1 record against Montana (the all-time clutch postseason QB unlike postseason pushover Peyton) holding those 49ers teams to 10 PPG in four playoff meetings? Wicked sh*t, man.

by MadMick on May 11, 2010 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well why did the Dolphins go from a 1 win team to the playoff under him?

I’m not a Parcells guy, I think the game has definitly taken him by some, but the guy was a necessary step in the cowboys process.

He wasn’t horrible.

Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.

Also anyone who ever refers to Dez Bryant as a Dez Dispenser owes me a dollar.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on May 9, 2010 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

teams often make dramatic changes with new coaches

by the way Parcells wasn’t head coach of the Dolphins Sparano is

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on May 9, 2010 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know that

But he was the GM who made the personell decisions BTW.

Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.

Also anyone who ever refers to Dez Bryant as a Dez Dispenser owes me a dollar.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on May 9, 2010 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

VP...

Parcells makes most of the moves.

Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.

Also anyone who ever refers to Dez Bryant as a Dez Dispenser owes me a dollar.

by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on May 9, 2010 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Parcells is a prick

……and probably not a human being any of us would like very much. But to argue that he hasn’t been a great coach/GM in the NFL is just stupid. He’s won a SB, completely turned around NE, the Jets, Cowboys, and looks like he’s got Miami going in the right direction. The Cowboys roster had almost NO talent when he got there and the roster he left went 13-3.

by StillHateTheGiants on May 9, 2010 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Parcells guyS

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on May 9, 2010 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do you mean

Newman, ratliff, ware, hatcher, spears, james or did you have someone else in mind?

by THEjarhead on May 9, 2010 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Parcells has been gone for 4 offseasons now

whats your point?

If its that the team looks different now, so what? the current coach runs a little different defense, and BTW, he had a much stronger base of a team here when he arrived.

Parcells didnt have crap. I still dont know how this team went 10-6 in his first year.

But since Parcells didnt win a SB here, well I guess he just sucks.

by THEjarhead on May 9, 2010 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

and oh by the way

that was with Qcarter as the QB.

And he sucks as a coach?

puh-leasssssse.

by THEjarhead on May 9, 2010 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

And oh by the way II

Parcells ran a 4-3 in his first 2 years in dallas, then switched to a 3-4. Does that call for a different approach to offseason and the draft?

Your attempts to paint parcells as an average coach who was only good when belichik coached for him are completely bunk.

do us all a favor and give it up and move on

by THEjarhead on May 9, 2010 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Newman and Ware were Jerry guys.

 the rest hardly comprise that much of the current defense. (Hatcher has yet to earn a starting spot fyi)

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on May 9, 2010 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Umm, yeah

every good pick and every good move during the parcells era were JJ moves.

Im sure thats the case.

And you were in the warroom when ware and newman were taken, so you know they were JJ guys, is that it?

And when did parcells claim hatcher was going to earn a starting spot? he’s on the team is he not, which is what you asked above.

Maybe you should stick to fantasy football. At least you’re a champ of that.

by THEjarhead on May 9, 2010 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

well JJ wanted spears over ware, and no way ware lasts til our 2nd pick. common knowledge

ware = JJ guy
spears = parcells guy

witten was a parcells dude though, that was a great pick. well we don’t know if the other picks were JJ or parcells but prob parcells or else we would’ve heard about it, like we did with ware. barber was a pretty darn good pick for a 4th too.

by blee on May 10, 2010 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thats only common to the BP haters.

I think the thought process was Ware has a better chance of lasting to the 2nd pick than Spears. I thought the same even though Ware had the higher grade.
Spears was coming off of a stellar career for LSU as Captain and National championship scoring a TD in the championship game.
Ware came from Troy and had the small college syndrome.
Jerry argued to stick to the board and follow the grades. It wasnt like he knew all along that Ware would turn out the way he did. He argued to follow the board. Which he learned from BP.
If your plan on argueing tha Ware was Jerrys guy because he knew he would be this good let me remind you of Jerry acumen for pass rushers, SHANTE CARVER, KAVIKA PITTMAN.
The man wouldnt know a pass rusher if one was dry humping his leg.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on May 10, 2010 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

If not for PArcells reorganizing the scoutnign department, Ware would not have been on the Cowboys' radar screen, and JJ would have traded both 1st round picks to Oakland for Warren Sapp and a bag of peanuts

I will give Jerry credit for bringing Parcells to Dallas and learning from him, but the idea that every good move during that era was Jerry’s move and every questionable move was a Parcells’ play is laughable

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/

by Seanrude on May 10, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ok dude if Jerry didn't stop Parcells

we would have had Spears at 11. Fact.

Its like you give Parcells credit for crap based on the most abstract and indirect means. Like, reorganizing the scouting department because it is not like everyone else in the world had Ware rated as a top 15 pick as oppose to Spears who everyone had rated as a late round pick. Ware was on everyone’s radar screen.

Whereas, you ignore the obvious: Parcells wanted someone instead of Ware. And you just ignore that fact and give him credit for the pick anyways because he reorganized the scouting department whom had him rated where everyone else in the world had him rated. Giving Parcells credit for that pick is absurd and bordering on delusional.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on May 10, 2010 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

They didn't think Ware would last to 20

but Parcells wanted Spears more and didn’t care if we got Ware. So whether Ware is “Jerry’s guy” or not I really don’t care, but one thing is for sure: he wasn’t Parcells guy.

Moreover, point is there are three Parcells guys left on the starting defense: Spears, James, and Ratliff (as far as we know). So you can’t really say Parcells built our defense and Wade is playing with his guys. That is absurd.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on May 10, 2010 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

We should be careful about saying what we "know"

Just because someone reported it doesn’t mean its a fact.

For me, the only thing I know for sure is that a great core group of players came in while Parcells was here, which contrasts to horrible personnel being brought in before his arrival.

Check out my movie - Standards of Ethical Conduct

by cowboysuberfan on May 10, 2010 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right, there are no good players left from the PArcells era. Who is delusional now?

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/

by Seanrude on May 10, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not me because I didn't say that there are no good players left

You can’t argue with the content of my post so you make up things I didn’t say.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on May 10, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hey Einstien, Spears was rated higher.

Ware was considered a situational pass rusher and a tweener whose best bet was bulking up and becoming an outside LB. He was considered a bit of a project and was rated 5th on Scott Wrights board behind Merriman, Spears Erasumus, and Pollack.

Yes based on what Ware has done in the pros since, its a no brainer, but back then it wasnt so cut and dried.
Where you had him ranked means as much to me as the color of my next crap. Dont bother me with your over inflated ego about your talent evaluations. You have a ways to go.

Jerrys argument at the time was “Follow our draft board/grade. Why spend all this time and money if we arent going to follow our board.” Not Ware will be the 2nd coming

It wasnt so easy back then. BP bashers use this as the holy grail of you guys being right. It was a debate worth having whether you like Spears or Ware. They were both rated on most boards as top 5 guys.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on May 10, 2010 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

No you have it all wrong. It is just a coincidence that the Cowboys got better after Parcells arrived

Same coincidence happened in New England, and with the Jets, and it looks like it is happening in Miami too. Bill Parcells is just one lucky guy.

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/

by Seanrude on May 10, 2010 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

I never said it was a coincidence we got better

I said Parcells was an above average coach and our team reflected that. But I don’t think he is great or anything, and our teams during those years reflected that.

You guys need to stop putting words in my mouth.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on May 10, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

incorrect....Spears was rated as a late first rounder

Ware was Mayocks top LB in the draft after the senior bowl. Ware was project to go in the top 20. Spears was projected to be a boom or bust DE at the next level.

"First rounders need to be starters" Jerry Jones.

by Boyzfan94 on May 10, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

I looked at DEs. I just went back and looked at

Scott Wrights top 100. Spears is rated 13 and Ware was rated 23(incidently Barron was ranked 14). Im sure we can pull up 5 mocks with Ware rated higher but I could pull up 5 with Spears rated higher. My point is at the time it wasnt a no brainer. Considering 295lb DE BP likes and the fact that 3-4 require bigger guys at DE its not out of the question that he wanted Spears 1st.
I wasnt in the draft room but it wasnt an outrageous idea that many try to percieve it to be. I also heard JJ was arguring to follow the scouts grades not because he loved Ware.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on May 10, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Squidlo:

Scott Wright was one of the few people that had Spears rated higher.

I love Wright for his prospect write ups, but his rankings and projections are pretty bad. Raf can attest to that.

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on May 10, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know but it was the only thing I could come up quickly from 5 years ago.

I dont doubt Ware was better. I just think the fact that BP and Jerry were on different sides on a pick has been blown out of proportion due to the way their careers have gone.
The 2 top safeties this year were rated close together. I think the kid from Tenn is better but I dont think someone who likes Thomas better is an idiot. A strong case can be made for either.
I wanted both players. Its not inconsievable to think Ware coming from a small college would have a better chance of falling to 22 than Spears. I could easily see someone wanting a pass rusher to go with Merriman(coming from a bigger school) being taken as the next pass rusher allowing Ware a chance to fall.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on May 10, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

If you look at any mock draft right before the actual draft

Ware was rated higher than Spears in the vast majority of them

Maybe a couple of months out Ware was rated lower but he shot up the boards right before the actual draft

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/news/story?page=2005mock

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2005/mock2005.html

http://walterfootball.com/draft2005.php

So I’m not quite sure what universe you are living in… Einstein

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on May 10, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dallas had Ware rated higher as well

Of course everyone you listed knew where Ware was rated with Dallas because by then it had leaked out.
Still those are mocks and not grades or evaluations. Secondly, we are taliking about about 2 guys with similar grades and similar character.
It wasnt a debate who is better RW or Austin. At the time they were very close.

KICK ASS every day!!!

by squidlo97 on May 10, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

and parcells turned out to be dead wrong there

is it all BP’s fault? of course not. this isn’t a shante carver or a darius heyward-bey pick. but since when do we give drafters a pass because it’s not their fault their busts turned out to be busts? by your guys logic, a GM could just print out a mock draft from freaking ESPN, follow it, and not be criticized if there are busts.

by blee on May 10, 2010 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would probably describe Parcells

as a really good talent evaluator and great motivator – perfect for a struggling team. But as game day coach, I thought the game had kind of passed him by. Parcells laid the foundation for our current success, though Wade deserves credit for taking us to the next level.

by foyesboys on May 10, 2010 2:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Parcells is a great team builder. He’s also his own worst enemy. That’s probably why he has always moved on after a few years. He builds and moves…builds and moves. He’s taken a step back from the hands on action in Miami. Otherwise, he’d probably be moving on again soon.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on May 10, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

He'll be moving on from there, and the team will be better than he found it

Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/

by Seanrude on May 10, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's my take on the guy as well.

Also you get my points in my book for finishing what you started. Now by the time he got to the Cowboys I could see why he would walk away after such a depressing and absurd ending to his 4th season but why didn’t he stick it out a little longer with the Patsies or Jets to try and win another Super Bowl? Bored? Too abrasive to work with the same front office longer than a handful of years?

by MadMick on May 11, 2010 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jacques Reeves

.. has been a pretty solid NFL player, particularly after he left the Cowboys. He started for the Texans for 2 years, and was at least ok last year (with 2 broken bones). Not bad at all for a 7th round draft pick.

by Diws on May 10, 2010 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I love how the FWST writer

 has more insight from his “friends” in StLouis than all the coaches and scouts in Dallas, and all the film Im sure they watched.

If you want to say Barron probably isnt the long term answer at LT, I’ll concur. Barron isnt meant to be though, which the gist of the article essentially ignores.

But the fact that Wade has probably forgotten more about football than all the metroplex writers combined currently know is not relevant anyway.

by THEjarhead on May 9, 2010 8:23 PM CDT reply actions  

My favorite part of the article is where the quote he takes from his friend

in St. Louis and it starts with “All of that said,…” That means that he just decided to leave out the part of the article where his “friend” decided to be complementary of Barron in some capacity.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on May 9, 2010 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm in 90% agreement

I think this is a good deal and he is a much needed lineman. He is certainly better than any backup Tackle on this roster (Though I still insist Center/Guard is a bigger need and Montrae Holland is no better than Proctor). And he may improve, given a better situation and a better offensive line coach. He has the tools – or he wouldn’t have been a 1st rounder.

But Barron is no Derek Kennard. Kennard was a legitimate NFL starter and even made a few All-Pro teams when he was with New Orleans. Barron started on the worst team in the league during his tenure – and he was often considered the worst of the bunch by Rams fans. He is also pretty expensive at $2.7 mil.

All around, though, it was a good pickup at a position of need. So I am behind it. I just don’t think he deserves the Kennard comparison.

by JimmyJohnson on May 9, 2010 9:04 PM CDT reply actions  

+1

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on May 10, 2010 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm tired of reading negative articles about Free

Just read another “Tony was running for his life” articles about the Minnesota loss. I really wish the salaried reporters in newspapers or tv networks would bother to consider reality before speaking or opening their mouths.

Some fact:
(a) the first ugly sack of Romo came at the handy work of our pro-bowl TE, Witten. J.Allen ran through and around him and that was the end
(b) Free, once settled into the LT spot in the same game, played respectably. Commentators during the game said so themselves.
© Majority of the pressure came up the middle. How can Free be the root cause of that leak? Do we know our guards were compensating for his play? Or are people just dreaming up stuff?
(d) Pressure around the edges came more-so from Columbo’s side. Columbo make the other DE look like a world beater.
(e) AND MOST CRITICALLY, Free played well (if not excellently) in Columbo’s place during the reg. season. Most knowledgeable fans (and commentators) were wondering if Columbo would be brought back for the playoffs.

Bottom line, we’re better reading our Cowboys news here than anywhere else. Thanks BTB.

by Eagles suck on May 9, 2010 9:05 PM CDT reply actions  

C is absolutely true

You are right. Free can’t be blamed for most of the jailbreaks against MN. But I am still concerned about Free as our starting LT. Nobody has Hud Houck’s ear like Nate Newton. And the big fella says they put Free at LT because they think it will work. But they do no know if it will work. They won’t know until 4 games in or so, when the other teams have him on film. I am glad we have Barron as a swing tackle at least.

That said, I’m more concerned about Bigg Davis this season. He was horrible down the stretch in run and pass blocking. And we don’t have a backup Center/Guard – much less a guy who can compete for a starting job.

by JimmyJohnson on May 9, 2010 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

To be fair

that concern would be true regardless of who our next LT is – Flo has manned that position for about a decade.

But I agree – untill I see him out there and doing well, I will be suspect.

And I also share your concern about Davis.

by foyesboys on May 10, 2010 2:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree it's definitely a risk but

I think Flo’s declining play forced their hand. Had he played a little better last season, I think they hold on off more season.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on May 10, 2010 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Backup Guard

I can’t say that I have a lot of confidence in our current depth at Guard, either. Brewster would have seemed to be the best bet, and right now, he’s been moved to tackle; we’ll see if that holds with the immanent aquisition of Barron. McQuistan has yet to show that he is an NFL caliber player; Bright is a project at best, Procter seems to have the confidence of the coaching staff to an extent, though it’s hard to see why; Preston and Holland appear to be career backups.

I wonder if Justin Smiley might be a good signing: a guy with medical issues who could develop into a starter, a la Colombo? (yes, he’s older than Colombo was and was a 2nd rounder, not a 1st rounder, but he has a track record as an above average lineman). The question here would be whether Smiley’s shoulder is going to get any better.. if so, then we can get a starting-quality Guard as a backup, to add to barron, a starting quality tackle, and perhaps have the best OL depth in a decade.

by Diws on May 10, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

We weren't wondering if Columbo WOULD be back

but if he SHOULD have come back, or at least if Phillips should have started him right away.

by DavidH22 on May 9, 2010 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah seriously...

what if…we started that game with free at RT? we might’ve scored a TD at least before flo went down. arghh….

by blee on May 9, 2010 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

yep...

thats something I would prefer not to think about..

by foyesboys on May 10, 2010 2:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on May 9, 2010 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Off Topic - Crazy stat of the Day from Pro Football Reference

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/ButzDa00.htm
In 1973 Dave Butz had a 23 yard Kickoff Return… Dave f’n Butz! I hated that guy. I can’t imagine the 300+ pound monster NT running the ball 23 yards.

by JimmyJohnson on May 9, 2010 9:19 PM CDT reply actions  

Durability at Tackle

The biggest questionmark with our starting five is how Doug Free will perform, where many of us just don’t know, until we see him in game action. One thing that people fail to mention about Flozel Adams was his durability. He only missed significant time in one season, throughout his career. We just don’t know if Free is a durable player or even a player who can play hurt. What we do know is Barron has made 74 starts, whichs suggests he is one of the most durable Tackles around. Barron is at least a experienced player who can fill in at either Tackle spot, if an injury happens.

by cowboyny on May 9, 2010 9:44 PM CDT reply actions  

He's signing tomorrow

You got any other news we should cover? Talk about Dez Bryant’s mom some more? Make fun of Wade’s gut?

by Rafael Vela on May 9, 2010 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would love to read about some of the UFA's that will be brought into camp

Not that reading about a guy who in the last two years has given up 15 sacks, at least as many false starts as Flo and has not bothered to show up for team workouts isn’t deserving of this much ink.

by 082288 on May 10, 2010 1:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ah, well there's the problem right there

I just read this blog on line. That saves me the ink and I can just hit that little “X” in the upper right corner when I’m tired of reading stuff.

BTB, Your Eco-Friendly Source of Cowboys’ News!

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on May 10, 2010 7:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm actually quite interested

in finding out about our new swing tackle.

RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.

by aussie_cowboy on May 9, 2010 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

me too

best thing to talk about at the moment…

by scottmaui on May 10, 2010 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

if you ask me

i remmeber bledsoe wasn’t that bad ‘til petiti- tucker (this is the last time i write this names) nightmare, then he dropped his game ala david carr because was fearing to be on ground all time
so barron is more tthan welcome for me, i don’t want to see sam young and brewster playing, if you ask me they’re like copy cats of petiti and tucker, (well brewster not that much)

by ratware on May 10, 2010 1:13 AM CDT reply actions  

It seemed to me

Bledsoe seemed to be different at the start of the 2006 season.I thought he played great in 05 considering the poor protection. But starting with that jacksonville game – it looked like he hurt his back in that game, and after that he seemed a little slower than before, and his throws weren’t as crisp, he telegraphed a couple bad passes…maybe it happened in the offseason and not the jacksonville game, but he was clearly different at the start of 06.

I think its a shame that people talk about him derisively, when he played really well in 05.

by foyesboys on May 10, 2010 2:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bledsoe did well in 05

If the Hotel does not go down we win the division frankly. But you are right he never looked the same after that year.Maybe like Carr he just finally had enough. Carr was pummelled like No QB ever has been; more sacks in his first 4 years then any QB in history. Of course some of them were his fault, but he was not bad all things considering. But he was clearly broken after that and has not been worth much since.

by burmafrd1944 on May 10, 2010 6:53 AM CDT reply actions  

I think it was the pummeling that then led to

looking for one guy in one pattern and trying to force it in. Like he didn’t trust the line to let him go through his progressions.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on May 10, 2010 7:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Those Memories Bring a Tear To My Eye...

What an insanely good offensive line we had in the 90’s. I remember knowing the Cowboys were a great team, but had no idea just how good they were, and how far they had to fall. Thanks to Torrin Tucker and Rob Pettiti, I know am wiser.

Greetings from the Humungus, the Ruler of the Wasteland, the Ayatollah of Rock and Roll-A. I laugh at your puny plans.

by Lord Humungus on May 10, 2010 7:36 AM CDT reply actions  

fantastic O-line in the 90s

and let’s not forget the D-line as well, as long as we are reminiscing. A starting front four of Tolbert, Casillas, Maryland and Haley, backed up by Jeffocat, Hennings, Lett and Jimmie Jones.

Holy sh*t.

by DavidH22 on May 10, 2010 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

The reason they let Flo go was not only declining skills but MONEY!!!!!!!!

If they were to let him go after they have a new deal collective bargaining deal in place they would have a two year penalty. I think they would like to have kept him but with the good play of Free and the MONEY you know what they would have to do

by boondog on May 10, 2010 9:28 AM CDT reply actions  

Eventually, when player's play declines,

you have to let them go and move in younger (and usually untested) talent. It’s the way of sport. We just have to trust in our coaching/scouting/owner to make the right decisions. Ten years ago, I didn’t feel so great about that triumverate, but right now I feel much better. They seem to be making better decisions and I think the scouting and coaching results speak for themselves. So now I take a wait and see attitude toward any changes made on the team. Like the old saying goes “Ya gotta have faith.”

Roger Staubach was the original Captain Comeback......alas, I am but a Cheap Imitation.
Formerly JAHII
Thanks to OCC, Sublimz and others for the avatars!

by CapnComebackII on May 10, 2010 9:39 AM CDT reply actions  

Star-Telegram
To which my friends in St. Louis, who’ve been watching Barron play for the past five seasons, have one piece of advice:

Run for your life, Tony Romo!

This sums up the same things I heard from two of my Rams friends…Barron has no business starting in this league.

"First rounders need to be starters" Jerry Jones.

by Boyzfan94 on May 10, 2010 10:01 AM CDT reply actions  

good thing he'll just be our backup

and despite that, I still feel better about him that the totally unknown in Brewster

by scottmaui on May 10, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

"Run for your life, Tony Romo!"

#9’s been doing that since mid-season 2006…

by DavidH22 on May 10, 2010 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here's why I like the deal

While Barron hasn’t been a good starter, he’ll be one of the better backup tackles in the league. But the reason I really like the acquisition is because it allows us to keep Brewster focused on the one position that he might start. Brewster’s our best hope for another up and coming lineman. Having Brewster be the swing tackle would no doubt slow his development at any one position. Now the question is what position should he focus on? I’d say RT.

Plus, we obviously shopped Carpenter and couldn’t get much for him. Not surprising, given that he’s an athletic LB, but doesn’t play physical enough to be an impact player. Plus, for all his athleticism, he doesn’t have much playmaking ability. I think he can be a ok starter as a weakside 4-3 LB, but not more.

Check out my movie - Standards of Ethical Conduct

by cowboysuberfan on May 10, 2010 10:40 AM CDT reply actions  

good point

this could actually help the development of Brewster

by scottmaui on May 10, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mike Williamson (Scouts Inc) via Mike Sando (ESPN)

Sando writes:

“I don’t see what St. Louis got out of the trade,” Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. said during a phone conversation Monday. “Carpenter has been a complete bust. He feels like a linebacker without a position. He almost looks like a 3-4 outside linebacker. He was a good pass-rusher at Ohio State, but he is too stiff to be a true edge rusher and too stiff to be a 4-3 outside linebacker. I understand he is a former first-round pick, but I haven’t seen anything in the NFL that makes me think he can play linebacker.”

Williamson sees this as a “great” trade for the Cowboys.

“I was with the Browns and I was in on interviews with Barron (coming out of college),” Williamson said. “He is not a self-starter. I can see why his act would get old. Getting out of St. Louis could do him a lot of good. Barron has legitimate first-round talent, he plays both tackle spots and the bottom line is he plays a much more demanding position. I just don’t think you got anything back for the guy. I think Dallas became a much better football team and St. Louis became a slightly worse football team.”

by Leon on May 10, 2010 3:43 PM CDT reply actions  

haha nice

I agree with Mr. Williamson. :-)

Oh well, I’m sure Williamson’s mailbox will be flooded with e-mails from Quincyyyyy about how Carpenter is going to be a pro bowler this year. I kid! I kid!

by Blue Eyed Devil on May 10, 2010 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

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