There's Only One Ball, Who Gets it in 2010, Part Two -- Runners
by Rafael Vela on Jun 10, 2010 2:00 AM CDT
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PrintThis is the second in a series examining how touches are likely to be distributed in the 2010 Cowboys offense. Today I look at the touches for the running backs.
Part one drew some critics, who questioned why touches are in question. The defense may have some say on where the ball goes on passing plays, but it does not dictate touches for runners to anywhere near an extent. Personnel packages and run calls determine who gets the ball and where he will attack a defensive front. The rest comes down to blocking.
Let's look at the committee touches, a staple of the Jason Garrett game plans since he took over the offense in '07:
Carries per game
| Back | 2007 | 2008 | 2008 |
| Marion Barber | 12.75 | 15.9 | 14.0 |
| Julius Jones | 10.25 | ||
| Felix Jones | 5.0 | 8.9 | |
| Tashard Choice | 5.7 | 4.0 |
The plan entering '08 was for Barber to start with 1st round pick Felix Jones replacing Julius and offering more big-play punch. Felix was filling the role; he averaged an eye-popping 8.9 yards per carry in his first six games, with long TD runs against Green Bay and Cincinnati. Tthe load fell on Barber's shoulders, however, after Jones pulled a hamstring at Arizona. Barber's carries per game zoomed to near 20 per game and his late-game effectiveness waned. Then... injuries
Reports of Mr. Barber's Demise Are Greatly Exaggerated
Barber tore a ligament at the base of a pinky toe in the Thanksgiving Day '08 game against Seattle and became a part-timer. Note his yards-per-carry pre injury and post injury:
- Games 1-12 : 3.9 yards per carry
- Games 13-16: 2.0 yards per carry.
Some fans tried to diminish the injury as "only a little toe" but a doctor explained the significance. The tear normally takes weeks to heal and Barber only missed one game. He set the healing back to stage one every time he carried the ball. From an on-field standpoint, the injury affected Barber's explosion.
Tashard Choice played superbly as the lone back in the final month, watching his carries jump from 2.7 while Barber's understudy to 12.4 in the final month.
Barber returned healthy, but quickly faced a similar problem early in '09. Late in the week two shootout loss to New York, Barber broke a long run up the far left sideline, and limped off the field after the tackle. Barber left the game with a torn quad, an injury which takes several weeks to heal. As he had in '08, Barber missed only one week to rest, meaning the tear never healed. We have a small pre-injury sample size to inform us, but the difference pre-quad tear to post is dramatic:
- Barber, games 1-2: 203 yards rushing, 6.3 ypc.
- Barber, games 4-16: 729 yards rushing, 4.0 ypc.
The Barbarian kept his starting role because he was trusted as the power back, though all the backs had trouble running in short-yardage and goal-line situations.
The biggest '09 change came in the final six games, when Jones returned from a sprained knee. Jones had labored with a balky brace mid-season, but after taking it off for the Thanksgiving Day game against Oakland, his zip returned. His work load crept up steadily and by season's end was nearly identical to Barber's, with Felix getting 12 rushes and 14 touches in the final month, compared to Barber's 15 carries and 17 touches.
The ratio of carries between the speed and power backs was back where it was in '07, and is likely what the Cowboys had envisioned when Barber was first drafted.
Barber's back-to-back sup-par years have led to speculation that he's no longer the same back fans saw in '07. I have a hard time believing this. Backs do wear down from accrued hits and Barber's style, which SI writer Paul Zimmerman termed "blood-and-guts" invited more hits than most. In fact, Barber sought out contact.
That said, he's never had more than 240 carries in a single season, never approaching the dreaded 400 carry mark which has sapped so many super backs over the year. He has suffered two very different lower-body injuries which have had the same effect, robbing Barber of his explosion and drive. His early performance in 2009 was every bit as strong as his peer, and he's entering this season lighter, hoping to add even more burst to his game. Barber has earned most of his yards inside and that extra bit of quickness may make him less predictable. I've heard he surprised the Dallas linebackers with his speed to the edge in OTAs and will do the same to linebackers who don't see him week-to-week if he carries that speed into season.
Entering 2010, it appears that the only real question is how many overall carries Jason Garrett will factor into his bigger game plan. Dallas has averaged roughly 25 carries between the backs. The overall load may be a bit richer this year, to maybe 27-28 running back carries, if Garrett dials the run/pass mixture closer to 50/50. I see Barber getting his usual 14 or so, with Jones getting 12 per game, with Choice getting his carries in between.
That seems unfair to Choice, but injuries have cut down both Barber and Jones in both '08 and '09, and running back isn't getting any less painful a position this season, so the odds are that Tashard will get his carries and perhaps his games again this year.
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Credentials
OF anyone and all of whom are having a field day with diminishing the injuries MB3 played on (The Lunch Break, Dallas Cowboys radio) calling such reports as “idiot reports.”
I would love to see or hear what sort of football-related credentials these people have on why MB3 should receive such ridicule on his performances.
Nobody is diminishing the injuries, they are diminishing the Reporters who are just now bringing it up.
Barber’s injuries were reported all last year, throughout the season.
The “exclusive” reports that are coming out now are merely rehashing what was already reported, but trying to sensationalize the injury- ie. “Barber had a hole in his leg muscle” rather than calling it a strain or a tear. I never heard DC.com diminish Barber, just the way the story is being reported now by other media outlets.
It frustrates me that we’ve got Choice sitting on the sideline while we play an injured Barber and delay his healing indefinitely. Are we stupid? If we were still getting top-notch performance from an injured Barber, it would almost be forgiveable. I can’t understand it. Unless, of course, the injury thing is mostly revisionist history.
by speedmetal on Jun 10, 2010 2:19 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
TC is gonna get tired
We need to either play him more or pay him like a reliable back
by elFURIOSOpozo on Jun 10, 2010 2:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree.
The coaching staff should have rested Marion for a few games and let Tashard take over his touches. Tashard has proved he’s a very capable NFL RB and it’s a crime we don’t use him more.
Roger Staubach was the original Captain Comeback......My childhood hero.
Formerly JAHII (actually, I am still JAHII, Retired United States Marine)
Thanks to OCC, Sublimz and others for the avatars!
by CapnComebackII on Jun 10, 2010 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions
It Makes no Sense
Either the coaching staff are complete idiots or the injury is being exaggerated. I’m leaning towards the injury being exaggerated as a June OTA-story to make up for how poor Barber played last year in relation to the play of Choice and Felix. It is like the Cowboys to rush a guy back into service (See: Columbo last year, Terry Glenn in 2007) but it’s not like them to skip treatment basically altogether. This club gives its starters their jobs back very quickly when they come back from injury, but it doesn’t skip treatment.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jun 10, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
If there is one thing the Cowboys coaches certainly struggle with at times
it is playing the best player in every situation. Too many times this staff has made poor decisions with injured players during the season and Barber is the perfect example (alongside Marc Colombo). I also think it is kind of insane to think that Miles Austin, the leading receiver in the NFC last year, couldn’t do enough for Jason Garrett to play him over Patrick Crayton. Granted, the Cowboys staff has made some very good decisions regarding Ellis/Spencer and Henry/Jenkins, but their in-season decisions with injuries and the depth chart certainly show some concerning inflexibility in my opinion.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Do you think its about money?
Cold hard cash they’re spending and the need to justify the contracts?
by elFURIOSOpozo on Jun 10, 2010 2:32 AM CDT up reply actions
I honestly have no idea.
That could of course be it, but I would lean more towards it being reflective of our coaching staff and their personality. Wade is a players coach and as such I think he puts an emphasis on listening to his players and I think it has certainly hurt this football team at times. This isn’t to say that I think Wade is a bad coach (my feelings are actually quite opposite), but I think the team’s handling of injuries is certainly something that needs to be improved.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Jun 10, 2010 3:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm only guessing, obviously, but
continuing to play Barber could have had to do with confidence in his pass-blocking as much as anything. I don’t think the coaches necessarily are hesitant to give Felix or Tashard carries, although I definitely hear what you’re saying.
At any rate, I’m rooting for a big year from the Barbarian, regardless of how the carries are divied up. After gutting it up through the last two seasons, he deserves a chance to prove the naysayers wrong.
Here’s to the three headed beast: Bash, Dash, and Tash.
"We'll see." --Bill Parcells
continuing to play Barber could have had to do with confidence in his pass-blocking
I suspect that is correct. In fact, I’ll go a little farther. Barber’s superior pass-blocking may justify having Barber in for more plays.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jun 10, 2010 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions
I never go with the "all the coaches are blind or stupid"
So this seems like a good working theory.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
by dunkman on Jun 10, 2010 8:45 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I wonder how much say Phillips has
on who and when a offensive player is on the field
"Talent is God-given; be humble. Fame is man-given; be grateful. Conceit is self-given; be careful." John Wooden
I would never go that far (I hope that is not what people thought I was saying)
but this coaching staff is certainly capable of making mistakes (despite the good intentions they may be surrounded with) and I think it is clear that this staff is certainly guilty of handling injuries poorly at times.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Jun 10, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
No doubt they make mistakes
but my point is only that they have football reasons for what they decide, and they make better decisions than a lot of fans give them credit for. But no, I wasn’t pointing the finger, or ummm, mouse at you.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
The thing is though that I don't really think that the handling of injuries
is a situation in which much football expertise is necessary. Handling injuries in my opinion is about managing their players even as their players tell them what they are capable of doing (which I think we can all agree a guy like Barber is going to exaggerate what he can do just to get on the field). Handling injuries is also about trusting back-ups and being willing to change and adjust well. I have no doubt about Wade and Garrett’s schematic capabilities, but I think as a player’s coach that he puts too much trust into his starters when they tell him, as they almost inevitably will, that they are good to go.
Put another way, what was the football reason for playing Colombo over Free in the final two games of the season? There really wasn’t one I can think of. The true answer in my opinion lies in the fact that the coaching staff trusted Colombo too much when he told them that he was fully good to play.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Jun 10, 2010 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I think they can make mistakes
In the case of Colombo, they thought he looked good to go, and he did in the Philly game prior to the Vikes game. So yeah, i think they can believe that a players is ready when he’s not. But what I don’t buy is that they know the guy is hurt, that the guy can’t play and they play him anyway. That’s the argument I don’t buy.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Well I certainly don't buy that argument either.
I don’t see Wade and Jason as cutthroat guys that force their players to play right away when the doctors first clear them. I just see them as players’ coaches that make mistakes believing a guy can play when he really can’t (Barber and Colombo being prime examples).
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Jun 10, 2010 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions
But then why was Choice the 3rd down back?
Doesn’t that within itself show confidence in Choice’s ability to pass block?
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Jun 10, 2010 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Or that they would take chances because he was such a good combination back
for running and catching passes out of the backfield. It looks to me like Felix is still a work in progress for running routes and catching passes.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Wouldn't you say that Barber is a great option as a runner and receiver out of the backfield as well?
If Barber’s pass protection was really that superior to Choice’s, the logical conclusion is that he would have been the third down back.
It just doesn’t make sense to say that the staff would play Barber when injured for his pass protection when they trusted a different back with the main pass protection duties all year long.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Jun 10, 2010 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Choice runs better patterns than MBIII
he also runs the Wild Boar or whatever they call it. And he runs well. I think he’s a little more versatile, and if MBIII was actually hurting, maybe they decided he gave them less of a chance in 3rd and long-ish.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
If I remember correctly though Choice was the third down runner
all the way from camp. I just think that however you cut it all signs certainly point to the Cowboys being comfortable with Choice’s ability to pick up the blitz.
Also, I would be curious to know if you want Choice to replace Barber as the back that would play alongside Felix since your last few comments certainly seem to make that case (more versatile, better routes, etc.).
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Jun 10, 2010 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Personally I like Choice over Barber
Barber can fire the whole team up with the way he runs, but Choice is a very versatile back. One thing he can do that MBIII can’t is take small or almost non-existent creases and make something out of them, while Barber needs a decent hole. Because this line is probably going to remain inconsistent, Choice I think gives them better inside running without sacrificing too much in passing and blitz pick up. One thing I noticed Choice needs some work on is knowing when to disengage from a block and slide out for a dump-off. Several times during the Eagles play-off game he was a step too late, and Romo couldn’t get it out to him. Those would have killed the Philly defense which was selling out to get to Romo.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
damn, sometimes you sound right smart dunk
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
Well as I wrote below I agree for the most part.
I especially agree about Choice’s ability to find that small seam to get those extra few yards. That is the skill that also stood out to me when I watch old tapes of #22.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Jun 11, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
not playing the best player
goes all the way back to terry glenn.
this staff frustrates the hell out of me doing this.
by Musiccitynorm on Jun 10, 2010 5:33 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Yeah when was Glenn not starting?
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jun 10, 2010 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions
He's probably referring to when they inserted Glenn in the playoffs
after he’d been out hurt for a long time, and wasn’t 100%.
(2007?)
It was indeed a stupid move.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
by Realist Larry on Jun 10, 2010 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah that was a dumb move.
Although I don’t think that was what cost Dallas that game.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jun 10, 2010 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I had this great joke involving
slick balls, but I like posting here too much, so I’m going to pass.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Well I got the total # of carries right in your last post
even allowing for 6 extra touches for pass plays. Your analysis of Barber not being nearly as gone as people have accused him of being (hand raising) ((guilty as charged)) is encouraging. I still jump out of my chair when Barber busts through the line. That would be great, I mean really great, to have the Barbarian back. I’ve of the opinion though, that slimming down as he has means he intends to run more and seek and destroy less.
It almost makes me want to vomit to say this, but the Giants had a great rotation a couple of years ago when they churned Jacobs, Bradshaw, and Ward, in and out of the game. Man, was that ever effective. Regardless of injury, I’d like to see Tash get more involved in the game plan, and not just the Razorback, but get his touches. If we’ve got 27-28 touches per game, I’m almost tempted to say let’s get each one of them 9 touches per game. In the end, however, I know that won’t happen. I’m just giving my obligitory love to our 3rd string back. We have the best 3rd string back in the league.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
+1
Nice to hear some love for Tashard.
Also, I believe Marion is going to have an awesome season.
Someone knock me unconcious until August. No, September, preseason only makes it worse.
by BlueNSilverBlood on Jun 10, 2010 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions
"We have the best 3rd string back in the league"
Without a doubt. I’d love to see him get more carries, and I will be sporting my Choice jersey as long as he is playing in the NFL (I really hope he stays a Cowboy).
+1
I think going completely even isn't quite right.
But very close. Maybe 10 for Barber, 10 for Felix and 6-7 for Tashard? Maybe even 11 Barber, 10 Felix and 5-6 Tashard? Choice is a hell of a player, and I would love to see the ball spread around more, but I believe they are saving him for what if scenarios. If each back has equal carries then you have an equal chance for all of the back to get hurt. With Choice getting sporadic carries, then you at least have a back up plan just in case.
Playing with pain
“He still has a hole in it,” Peete said Tuesday.
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/news/story?id=5264831
Is that something that will eventually heal?
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
Unlike the one in my head or
DalaiLuke’s heart, it should…
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
by dunkman on Jun 10, 2010 8:47 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
WHAT?!!!!
Okay Dunk, it wasn’t enough you sick’d the Wolf and his crack surveillance squad on to me …
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
Don't blame me
if you weren’t doing crack, there wouldn’t be any need for his surveillance squad, now would there?
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
True true
The Wolf has the Roxy in Phuket completely staked out. You know those pool tables you like so much?
Fully wired.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jun 11, 2010 6:57 AM CDT up reply actions
LOL to BOTH ... and for the record, I'm headed over to Roxy's NOW ...
Winner of tonight’s pool tourney (me :) gets a bottle of Whiskey, mixers, ice and couches for USAs whipping of England tomorrow night.
I know, I know, nobody on here gives a rat’s azz, but around here it’s bragging rights for the rest of the World Cup – at least. Should be a cool game tonight – host South Africa and 95,000 insane fans vs. Mexico. My money’s on Mex.
So, just gathering up my crack pipe … um, I mean betting sheets… uh, make that my soda pop … and gonna go win me some prime real estate :)
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
My surveillance crew wanted to go
But I’ve assigned myself to Phuket. My report? Blond hair, crystal blue eyes, about 5’3", and she has a degree in shrinking people’s heads. Wait…what’s this about couches for whipping? Dude, I am so there…as soon as my psychologist leaves.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
grrr... Thai snooker players shouldn't be allowed to enter amateur tournaments :)
psychiatrists scare me … but I guess if she’s cute and specializes in couches
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
I take it you didn't win.
I’m thinking there are some whom might consider you the ringer, my friend. And this shrink wouldn’t scare you. She’s just too warm and friendly…and hotter than I probably deserve. Besides, I love being analyzed. I’m an INTP on a Meyers-Briggs assessment. We have to do these highly in-depth personality profiles as part of our business arrangement. All 16 types claim theirs is the rarest, but INTP truly is. Less than 1% of the population is INTP. My very different mind is a psychiatrist’s dream. Anyway, there’s always another tourney.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
INTP: Lord help me be less independent, but let me do it my way.
I’m an INTJ, or rather ‘I have a preference for INTJ’ to stay in the MBTI lingo (Lord keep me open to others’ ideas, WRONG though they may be).
True to type, I must point out that there are even fewer INFJs than there are INTPs
by One.Cool.Customer on Jun 12, 2010 2:56 AM CDT up reply actions
LOL. I told you.
My claim comes from our staff psychologist (not the blond) who actually performs the assessments. MBTI is supposed to help us understand how to work and play nice with each other. You rarely get the kind of dirt offered here.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
loved the link, thanks. Next up: profile all the bloggers on BTB. He he he …
by One.Cool.Customer on Jun 12, 2010 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
That would be so cool
to have their type right next to their avatar. Whenever I have tense moments with others at work, I go to their type guide and snicker as I blow them off.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
That's been my problem for a while.
You, my dear sir, are not the first one to say that to me.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Put me down as an ISTJ...
for whatever it’s worth.
Rabid and luvin' it
by lonewolfz28 on Jun 12, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
It's worth it's weight in gold my friend.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
er...to the enemy. LMAO
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Must not be bothering him too much
if his teammates are surprised at how quick he’s getting to the edge. I think it’s one of those things that may not take a hit too well though. We could really use Barber at 100%, even if it’s not as the Bruiser. I just want to see what this offense could do if it spent the whole season performing up to its potential. My God! This offense might be capable of putting up 600 points.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
I think it's pretty ironic that Felix is now 15 pounds bigger than MB3
when MB3 was always thought of the power back and Felix was the scat back. Personally, I think now that Felix has gained so much weight, he ought to handle the majority of the load, 15-20 carries a game, while MB3 and TC should get 5-10 between them. I see this year as the Cat’s break out year into super stardem
It’s certainly a great luxury of riches to have, thats for sure.
In Romo we Trust
Win-Win
I was really excited just a month ago when all the talk was about the possibility of Felix finally being at the top of the depth chart this season, but I’m more excited about hearing about MB3’s new quickness. Now I’m torn between who I’d like to see starting. Either way….I don’t think we can go wrong. I think I’d like to see fairly even carries between the two of them with TC seeing 5 or 6 a game.
Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable. --
Tom Landry
Spoken like a true fan
Good comment
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
by dunkman on Jun 10, 2010 1:06 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Short Yardage and Goal Line shows Oline Weakness
Hard to get 2 yards when your line gets stuffed or even pushed back or when you have to avoid a defender in the backfield, The short comings of the Oline in short yardage/goal line situations have been documented buy myself and others for years. This is an area were I am not sure if Free will be an up grade over Adams ( along with the Bull rush and speed rush ).
We could use a brusing, lead blocking, pass catching FB, but that dude ain’t in camp. It seems that when evereyone knows your running behind Gurode and Big it becomes harder to do.
Misdirection and draws are not the plays of choice in short yardgage situations; so what is? 1 brutal back isn’t going to get you those yards if the line doesn’t get you a whole or a push.
The only answer I see is scoring from farther out with a bulkier Felix, a speedier Barber, a shiftier Choice and a barrage of passes to a plethera of talented recievers.
Sorry, didn’t really address the theme of this artical, but who gets the carries is less importent to me then scoring……….I’m all about scoring!
I have been wanting to see us do like Ravens have done in the past and bring in 2 more Tackles.
I would like to see over loaded lines and pull a guard on top of that. We do that somewhat with the wildcat but I would like to see another package included.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
It's a great trifecta
I never quite understood what Barber had a hole in.
NFL Total Access discussed the backfield situation and came up with the same conclusions as the posts made here.
They discussed the success Barber had as the second back behind Julis Jones.
I wonder if we will still run the Wildhog formation with Choice?
The thing that I think we will see is Jones being a big part of the passing game.There are very few LBs that can cover him.
I’m for the runningback by committee with Barber getting the carries in the fourth quarter.
by TCB Orange Dino on Jun 10, 2010 11:17 AM CDT reply actions
Raf - You made the argument against starting Barber perfectly
This is the problem we’ve seen with Marion Barber. Barber has the some problem as our O-line does: Barber looks like a monster in September and October but by the time December and January roll around he’s mediocre at best. His bruising style means he accrues injuries and loses his explosiveness. Eventually, he begains to avoid contact at all and go down from the first hit.
This happened in 2007 against the Giants, in 2008 against the Eagles, and at the end of the 2009 season.
Barber is an asset to this team to be sure, he’s unique in all of the NFL. But he’s being used wrong. He shouldn’t be the #1 back on this team. He should be given few touches but used when his bruising style is needed as the closer. The ball-share should be more like Felix 14 Choice 7 Barber 6 with Barber in for maybe 2 series in a game and in on goal-to-go situations.
Use him too much and he get injured and loses all effectiveness. The September and October highlight reels are nice. But they don’t do much to help you in January.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jun 10, 2010 12:14 PM CDT reply actions
There is no way in hell...
Marion Barber will only be getting the ball 6 times a game.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jun 10, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
depends how well Jones plays
If he has a breakout season, ala Chris Johnson, MB3 just might be seeing less than 10 carries per game
In Romo we Trust
I just dont see. Felix wont be given those type of touches.
Our offense doesnt roll that way.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
Chris Johnson type seasons are once-in-a-decade affairs
He is a special back in a special team peaking at a special time.
But I think the only thing holding Felix back from being one of the premiere rushers in this league is our coaching staff’s insistaince on having Felix sit on the sidelines so often in favor of Barber.
I’m afraid we’re in the exact same Julius Jones vs. Marion Barber place we were in a few years back, but now it’s Marion Barber vs. Felix Jones.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jun 10, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
The Cat can be special too
I’m not saying he has a chance at 2,000 yards in our offense, but he certainly can be special.
In Romo we Trust
You don't think that Felix's injuries haven't held him back too?
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jun 10, 2010 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I know there's a difference between what we'll see and what I think should happen
And by 6 carries a game I imagine it more like 2 series. Maybe some games we don’t see him at all and it’s just Choice/Felix. Sometimes it would be 13 straight carries to close out a game on a monster drive, other times it would be zero carries. But saving MBIII only for those situations where his bruising style is needed.
I don’t know, I’m just throwing things out there.
My main concern is that when December ‘10 comes around we’re going to see the Barber that doesn’t have explosion and goes downon first contact just like we saw in Dec ’09 and ’08. I hope my fears are unfounded, I really really hope my fears are unfounded. But my eyes say different.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jun 10, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
But it isn't wear and tear.
It’s injuries. You can tear a hamstring on 1 play just as easily as 10.
You are acting like he’s wearing down by the end of the season and that isn’t the case. Barber is getting hurt within the first 5 weeks. This year he got hurt and he wasn’t even touched when it happened.
If he’s hurt he shouldn’t be playing, and I blame that on the coaches. But this isn’t a case of him slowing down over a course of a season.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jun 10, 2010 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
+1 ... yea, what he said!!!
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
You'll get a lot of criticism, but those have been my numbers since the end of the season
they need to put Felix in there and see what he’s got.
It’s kind of like when they finally needed to sit Bledsoe and give Romo his shot. It’s time to leave Jones in for long stretches, let him get some rhythm in the game and see what he can do.
I’m not like some here who think Felix is going to be all-pro and put up 2000 yards. I just think he’s the best back we have, and it’s not close.
I’m also not a Barber ‘hater.’ He’s an above-average back, could start for the majority of teams. And I love him as a backup and different option. But this is Felix’s third year, he should not just ‘start’ but get twice as many carries as Barber.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
by Realist Larry on Jun 10, 2010 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree that Felix should get the most carries or touches.
But there is no reason to just get Barber 6 touches. He is a better back than a 6 carry back. We’re not talking about a guy who is averaging 3.3 yards per carry.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jun 10, 2010 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, and on the average over the course of a season injuries will make this all work out-unfortunately.
But, you know, Choice is too good to be held to that few carries too.
We have a nice surplus, but in my opinion, the possible upside w/Felix Jones is huge. I think you’ve got to give him a shot.
And if he gets hurt or the doesn’t perform as well as he did w/limited carries, you’ve got 2 guys ready to go!
I’m not as high on him as Terry, but I think he’s got a chance to put up some special numbers-and to me MB III can be good but will never really be a threat like FJ, even if he is 100%.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
by Realist Larry on Jun 10, 2010 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Our entire offense is an embarrassment of riches.
I said it last off-season, and I’ll say it again. Everything depends on this offensive line. It’s time to see these guys get their shit together, and play at an elite level. If they’re ever going to do it, now is the time.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
And somehow, even ignoring the contract problems
they’ve managed to gather this talent without any immediate Cap concerns.
We’ll have to see what happens with the union vs. owners, but assuming they sign Austin they’ve got a nice window here.
Between the Cowboys and Alabama’s CTide I’m looking forward to football the next few years!
They can make up for my Cubs
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
by Realist Larry on Jun 11, 2010 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, good drafting will do that every time
I’m really glad they’ve improved their whole evaluation and scouting process over the past several years. What a difference.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Amen to that!
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
Using our trinity....
I’ve heard both sides of the argument, “let’s use the Babarian in the first half and wear down the defense for Felix’s breakout runs in the second half” and “let’s use Felix in the first half to get ahead and then run down the clock with the Babarian”. Both have valid points, but the fact of the matter is that every game will vary in our approach and it’s not like there will be one set way when it comes to our run game plan every game. This would make us too predictable for defenses preparing for us. I don’t care when we use Felix and The barbarian as long as Felix gets more touches. However, i do care when we use Tash. Tash needs to be our third down back like Bradshaw is to the Giants. His talent is too raw for him to be on that bench. He has a nack for getting the first downs in those tight situations, he’s more patient than the Barbarian when it comes to waiting for the blocks, and has a special uniqeness to him when it comes to finding holes and making cuts. However, i believe his specialty is what he’s capable of in the open field when he gets those drop off passes and screens from Romo, especially to keep those defenses back when there sending those blitzes. Go on youtube and watch the highlights of Choice facing the three best run defenses in Dec. of 08’ ( against the steelers,giants, and ravens) Afterwards, try to tell me different.
I think Austin will draw double coverage most games.
Hopefully Dez will be the WR most seem to think he is and teams will have to double him some also. LBs can’t cover Witten it takes a safety and someone has to account for RW or Crayton, that means LBs will have to cover RBs coming out of the backfield and not many LBs can cover that well. Felix and Choice catching passes in the open field is scary for DCs. If the OL can do the job this O is going to be plenty hard to stop.
WOW WOW Wubbzy, it's time for number six.
So far...
From what is talked about, Felix is looking very very good this year at running his routes and catching the ball. I’m happy with any one of our running backs starting.
Good stuff Raf.
Im glad you posted MBIII ypc first 2 games and rest of season. I felt like, from watching games last year, that Marion had never been quicker but never went back and worked the numbers to prove it. I think last year he had never been quicker.
Im not sold on the MBIII is wore out. His injuries are a little different from the worn out variety. Hamstrings, quads, and pinky toes arernt the worn down types like knees, shoulders, back, and hips. To me those are the ones with an accumlative affect.
On a side note. I heard a few state they say Witten wearing down and are afraid he is wearing out. He is getting older but I dont think he is wearing out yet. I think his numbers were down early in the year due to us trying to build our offense around RW and bringing Bennett up to another level. I dont want to say we forced the offense though them but rather tried to bring them up to speed to compensate for the loss of T.O.
I think our coaches early in the year felt that was where we were going to make up for TO’s touches and yards. RW and Bennett didnt deliver but for several games we tried to get them going. Of course Austin stepped up and Witten started getting his number called in better situations.
The thing is( I didnt look up numbers to back this, just my observations) Witten came on stronger at the end of year. Guys who are on the downside, fade at the end of seasons not excell. I think we are ok. My idea is to allow Bennett to play Wittens role early in season and early in games for a few plays, to get him up to speed over the next year or 2 and make a smoother transition. I think Bennett would shine closer to what was expected.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
Undiscussed here is this idea that losing weight is going to help Barber.
Really?
The guy is not a speed back.
We already have a guy who can get around the edge, his name is Felix Jones. And Barber can go to the moon and cut his weight to 1/6 and he won’t be as quick as Jones.
I don’t get it at all.
He makes his living doing what he does, banging heads and overpowering people. Losing weight is a bad idea and is probably going to hurt as much as help him.
Who said it a couple of days ago-when you start hearing about a guy’s weight it’s a bad sign.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
His power is derived from size though.
He has never been a HUGE back. He is really just going more back to his original playing weight.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jun 10, 2010 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I assume you mean "isn't" derived from size
And that would be correct. He runs as though he thinks he’s 240 pounds though!
I don’t know-I didn’t see any baby fat on that guy to trim, and I don’t see how losing weight will help.
To tell the truth, I’m worried he’s gonna be thinking too much and will completely lose it like Julius Jones did once Parcells got in his head.
RB’s can’t be thinking out there, they have to react.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
by Realist Larry on Jun 10, 2010 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions
And if he does lose it.
We’ll have two other backs at least.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jun 10, 2010 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes I did sorry.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jun 10, 2010 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions
If he's in better shape it should help him with injuries.
I don’t know how it’ll affect his running and could see it as a negative, but I will say his running has always been about attitude more than anything.
It's all bullsh
Weight discussions mean nothing in sports unless the guy is Jamarcus Russell. It’s all just June stories to get the fans excited.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jun 11, 2010 9:09 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
True
it’s only when a QB finds it hard to throw the ball out of his own self-generated gravity well that we should be worried.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jun 11, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
As always I am about to make a comment that will get little or no agreement.
Choice is the best back on the team. Jones is more explosive, true, and everyone loves the fire and the energy that Barber brings to the table. But Choice is a patient, well rounded runner with good vision, and the ability to make smooth cuts. I also encourage everyone to watch what he did against some of the best defenses in the league his rookie year.
Choice is criminally underused on this team, and whenever he moves on, we Cowboys fans are going to regret it.
That isn't a crazy statement...
Although I think his sample size is so small that it’s hard to tell.
That being said, I don’t think he’s better than Felix Jones. It isn’t like Felix doesn’t have good vision or smooth cuts.
I love Choice, I really do. I think he is probably the best back out of the Shotgun for sure. I just think that there is overzealous Choice fans out there.
I loved him against Pittsburg in 08, but quite frankly he wasn’t that good against the Eagles this year in the playoffs and it wasn’t because of lack of opportunities.
If you’re going on a small sample size, you have to throw in the bad ones with the good.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jun 11, 2010 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions
+1
Balanced statement all around.
We have three backs that are, IMHO, all capable of starting. Felix and Barber, when healthy, are among the league’s best. Choice proved his mettle in December ‘08, and showed glimpses of greatness. I’m not yet sure where I’d put him. As IIF/AFB said, it’s a small sample size.
One thing is for certain, Choice should have seen more action last year. I think they’d be crazy not to use a more balanced approach to carries. It keeps all three fresh throughout the season.
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
Choice had 14 carries for 42 yards against the Eagles in the playoffs and a TD
and the vast majority of those runs came when the Cowboys were up 34-7 and were trying to run out the entire 4th quarter and the Eagles were expecting the run. I was impressed or at least satsified with Choice’s game against Philly.
Then of course he got one carry against Minnesota the next week.
I was satisfied with it.
But it’s not like it lit the world on fire.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jun 11, 2010 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll admit, that there is a sample size issue,
but I think at the very least he’s done enough to be given the chance to prove his ability.
And I don’t mean to disparage Jones at all. I still think he’s a good/possibly great back, but I just have this feeling (possibly largely unfounded) that given the chance, Choice could turn out to be a top ten possibly even top five back in the league.
Just consider Choice for me the same way you would consider Romo for Terry.
I'm with you on Choice
easily the most well rounded and best all around back of the 3, including durability.
I am with you in the sense that I believe Choice to be a better back right now than Barber. I love what Barber brings when healthy but I think the one thing that Choice has that Barber lacks is that special vision to predict where that seam to pick up those extra three yards is going to pop up. That skill is extremely valuable and in my mind is necessary when going behind our O-line since in power situations it is going to take that vision to find the best seam due to our O-line’s lack of steamroll ability.
That being said, I think Felix is better than Choice. I feel that Felix has extremely good vision in his own right and has added acceleration to boot. He also has the even more rare ability to cut without losing very much speed which is what makes him so special on runs like the one against the Eagles in the wild card round.
In my dream world it would be Choice and Felix being the main backs with Barber getting the ball in closing situations. However, this is almost certainly not going to take place this year. Unlike you though, I am more optimistic with respect to the future. I think Barber’s contract almost guarantees that his spot on this team is going to be examined very closely next year and I think the Cowboys will either restructure with him to keep him on in a more complementary role or simply cut him in favor of a cheap running back in the draft. As such, I fully expect going into the 2011 season that it will be Felix and Choice being the two main running backs.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Jun 11, 2010 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions
In this scenario Felix still gets around 200 carries on the season.
I like it. Before we shoot down the idea of Barber getting slightly more carries let’s remember Felix has still yet to prove he can make it through an entire season unscathed. I’d assume that if Felix finally shows he can last the whole season by the time 2011 rolls around he’ll be getting closer to 16 carries a game.
As for Choice, it sucks but he’s probably the odd man out until he’s forced into duty by injuries. How many more times can Felix show he’s unable to avoid the injury bug before the team realizes Choice is the best candidate to be the team’s featured back? That last question was kind of rhetorical in nature but it will be dead serious if Felix has to miss any stretch of games next season.
I gotta say
I would like to see a more even split between the 3 backs, but with Felix getting a few more than Barber and TC, IMO that would keep all of them fresh and could help them stay healthy. On another note, isn’t this Barber’s last year of getting a high salary?
by nicholas.rodriguez on Jun 11, 2010 6:21 AM CDT reply actions
Why do you expect more carries for the running backs? I expect less!
I would think that the switch from Adams to Free would result in MORE PASSING, not less passing. Free might be quicker and a better pass blocker, but he may not be as good of a run blocker as Adams was. It doesn’t matter how the carries are divied up, if we can’t run block as well, we will have to throw the ball more.
I think this is one of the main reasons that Garrett is trying to get Felix more involved in the passing game- because we might NEED to pass it to him in order to get his hands on the ball where he can do something with it.
RBs also have to block more than 50% of the time!
Felix needs to improve his pass blocking in order to get more carries as a lone RB in the backfield. Barber is the best pass blocker, with Choice right behind him. It has been reported that Garrett is trying out formations with both Barber and Felix in the backfield at the same time- one reason for this may be that he doesn’t quite trust Felix alone to pick up the Blitz. Since most teams, including the Cowboys, pass more than they run it is very important to consider pass protection when evaluating the backs.
I really like the Cowboy’s RB platoon, and I don’t really care who encs up with more carries/touches. I just want the Cowboys to use the best back for whatever play they are calling and whatever opponent they are facing.
ok good to be reminded that MB3's injuries were different in 08 and 09 and not "wear and tear" types
and i firmly think a healthy barber is better than choice. but does anyone know whether there would be a cap penalty for cutting players after this season is over but before the new CBA is worked out? i love MB3 but if he gets hurt AGAIN…well i think we gotta get rid of him, at least at that salary.
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