Peerless Passers: Roger Staubach, Troy Aikman and ... Tony Romo?
At least once in his of her life, every single Dallas Cowboys fan out there has been involved in a debate about how the different quarterbacks the Cowboys have had over the last 50 years compare to each other .
There is a school of thought that in Dallas, the QB position is measured by Super Bowl rings and nothing else - after all, we are not the Philadelphia Eagles. A splinter group of this Reductionist Train of Thought uses a very simple question to rank the Cowboys QBs: "If you had only one game to win, who would you pick as your QB?" Not unsurprisingly, these folks are often Staubach fans.
Then there is the group of fans whose QB evaluation is closely linked to their own date of birth. If you're below 20, Tony Romo easily looks like the best thing that ever happened to the Cowboys. If you witnessed the Triplets in their prime, you'll likely come down on the Aikman bandwagon. And if you're old enough (and/or healthy enough) to remember the 70s, Staubach is probably your man.
There are many more groups, like the Selective Memory fans who will always argue along the lines of: "If you had ever seen [insert QB name here] play, we wouldn't be having this discussion". The Intangibles Fraction will chew your ear off with things like leadership, character, playmaking ability or all-round badness. The Romosexuals like to argue that Romo holds or will soon hold every single passing record in Cowboys history. And of course there's a whole universe of Statisticians out there who will try to answer the questions with some kind of number, be it winning percentage, playoff wins, completion percentage, efficiency measures and other numbers. And on and on ...
Regardless of where you fall, the difficulty in these discussions is that you're discussing different players, on different teams, in different eras. And you can't really compare them. Or can you?
The passer rating is an official NFL stat and, for better or worse, it is the preeminent stat for measuring quarterbacks and has been since the early 1970s. We've looked at the passer rating in great detail in a few recent posts: We saw that today's quarterbacks are breaking NFL passing records left and right (see The NFL Arms Race). We saw that rule changes and changing offensive strategies led to the average NFL passer rating increasing by a good 20 points vs the early 1970s (see Passer's Paradise). And finally, in Passer Rating 101, we saw how the weight of the individual components making up the passer rating formula has changed significantly.
What all three posts made very clear is that it doesn't make a lot of sense to compare the passer rating of different QBs in different eras. But what we can do is use the passer rating to compare a given QB with his peers of the same era, and that's exactly what we'll do in the table below. We look at passer rating vs. peers in two different ways and throw in a winning percentage for free:
Cowboys QB Stats (click column header to sort)
| QB | Years |
Seasons as Starter |
Top 10 passer seasons |
NFL Avg. Passer Rating |
QB Passer Rating |
Index vs. NFL Average |
Cowboys Winning % |
| Eddie LeBaron | 60-61 | 2 | 0 | 63.4 | 57.0 | 90 | .154 |
| Don Meredith | 62-68 | 7 | 4 | 66.9 | 77.2 | 115 | .565 |
| Craig Morton | 69-70, 72 | 3 | 2 | 64.4 | 78.7 | 122 | .681 |
| Roger Staubach | 71, 73-79 | 8 | 7 | 62.3 | 85.3 | 137 | .746 |
| Danny White | 80-85, 87 | 7 | 5 | 71.8 | 81.8 | 114 | .674 |
| Steve Pelluer | 86, 88 | 2 | 0 | 71.1 | 71.1 | 100 | .296 |
| Troy Aikman | 89-00 | 12 | 6 | 75.2 | 81.6 | 109 | .570 |
| "Primetime" Troy Aikman | 91-96 | 6 | 5 | 75.3 | 88.9 | 118 | .724 |
| Quincy Carter | 01 & 03 | 2 | 0 | 76.6 | 69.2 | 90 | .516 |
| Chad Hutchinson | 2002 | 1 | 0 | 78.6 | 66.3 | 84 | .222 |
| Vinny Testaverde | 2004 | 1 | 0 | 80.9 | 76.4 | 94 | .333 |
| Drew Bledsoe | 2005 | 1 | 0 | 78.2 | 83.7 | 107 | .545 |
| Tony Romo | 06-09 | 4 | 4 | 80.5 | 95.6 | 119 | .691 |
Top 10 passer seasons: A simple approach to comparing QBs is to count how often a QB finished a season as a league leader in passer rating. Roger Staubach managed that incredible feat in four separate seasons, but no other Cowboys QB has ever led the league for a full season before or after. So I broadened the comparison a little, and looked at how often each QB finished a season in the league top 10 in passer rating.
Staubach finished in the top ten in seven of his eight seasons as a starter for the Cowboys, Aikman had six top ten seasons, Don Meredith and Tony Romo both have four. Of note, Romo has been in the top ten of qualified passers in the league every year he has started (06: 5th, 07: 5th, 08: 8th, 09: 8th).
Passer Rating vs. NFL average: This is an attempt to quantify how much better a given quarterback was versus his peers who were playing at the same time.
Take Staubach in the table above. Roger the Dodger started eight seasons for the Cowboys (1971 and 1973-1979). In these eight seasons, he had a combined passer rating of 85.3. The NFL average passer rating during those exact same eight seasons was 62.3. Roger Staubach was indexing at 137 versus the NFL average, or in other words, he was 37% better than the average of all other quarterbacks playing at the same time. The fact that this is about twice as high as the next best QB in Cowboys franchise history shows you just how extraordinary this number is.
In 1971 Roger Staubach notched a season passer rating of 104.8 when the NFL average for qualified passers was 62.2. In percent, Staubach was 68% better than the league average, the best value achieved by any quarterback in the Super Bowl era (CHHF.com have a list of the leading passers and their %age vs NFL average for every season here).
Craig Morton and Tony Romo rank second and third with an index of 122 and 119 followed a little further down by Dandy Don Meredith and Danny White with 115 and 114 respectively. All of these QBs were easily top 10 QBs in the league in their heyday. Troy Aikman comes in at a 109 index, somewhat disappointing for a man who owns three Super Bowl rings.
There is a popular and nagging misconception that Troy Aikman was an average passer surrounded by great talent who paved his way to Canton with some outstanding postseason and Super Bowl play. And his career average passer rating of 81.6 would seem to bear that out.
Some have argued that using the passer rating to measure Troy Aikman is wrong because the Cowboys ran a 'passer-rating-unfriendly' offense: Aikman threw for more than 20 TDs in a season only once in his entire career (1992: 23). No surprise if you have a RB like Emmitt Smith behind you who scored 10 or more touchdowns in 9 seasons, including two seasons with more than 20 TDs ('94: 22, '95: 25). Would you throw a lot of three or four-yard touchdown passes if you had Emmitt Smith running behind you?
I say bunk to all that. I've included a line in the table above called 'Primetime Troy Aikman' based only on his Pro Bowl seasons from 1991 to 1996. In these six years Aikman ranked 6th, 3rd, 2nd, 5th, 3rd and 12th in the league in passer rating. Over those six years he was indexing at 118 which about what Don Meredith and Tony Romo achieved.
Troy Aikman was an outstanding passer in his prime. His career numbers are hurt by a slow start and a (too) long decline at the end.
Winning Percentage: This is the winning percentage a QB compiled over his entire career with the Cowboys. Roger Staubach leads all QBs by a wide margin, Tony Romo is second on the career list and only topped by Troy Aikman in his prime.
Conclusion: Compared to their peers in their own eras, the Cowboys have had a number of excellent QBs. However, Roger Staubach stands tall above all others in the peer comparison. Craig Morton, Don Meredith and Danny White all compare very favorably to their peers in their time, but will always carry a little asterisk in the Cowboys history books for what they did not achieve. Tony Romo is arguably one of the best Cowboys QBs since Roger Staubach, and his task is clear: avoid the asterisk.
More often than not, you will intuitively know whether a set of stats makes sense or not. Does this peer comparison match your gut feeling?
***UPDATE***
By popular request here is an overview of how selected QBs rank (* denotes a HOF QB). All of the QBs below started their career after the merger year 1970, so all are based off the same statistical base.
| QB | Years | NFL Avg. Passer Rating | QB passer rating | Index |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Steve Young* | 91-99 | 75.5 | 101.4 | 134 |
| Joe Montana* | 79-94 | 72.9 | 92.3 | 127 |
| Peyton Manning | 98-09 | 78.4 | 95.2 | 121 |
| Dan Fouts* | 73-87 | 68.1 | 80.2 | 118 |
| Tom Brady | 01-09 | 79.2 | 93.3 | 118 |
| Dan Marino* | 83-99 | 74.0 | 86.4 | 117 |
| Jim Kelly* | 86-99 | 74.1 | 84.4 | 114 |
| Brett Favre | 92-09 | 77.4 | 86.6 | 112 |
| Warren Moon* | 84-00 | 74.2 | 80.9 | 109 |
| Terry Bradshaw* | 70-83 | 65.4 | 70.9 | 108 |
| John Elway* | 83-96 | 73.7 | 79.9 | 108 |
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I'll second that
Romo’s the next coming of Staubach IMHO
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
hopefully
Romo can achieve what Rodger and troy did, he’s a great passer and now has great weapons around him.
Texas Stadium has a hole in the roof so God can watch his favorite team play football.
I guess in the minds of some Cowboys fans
Romo will not be given his due unless he wins a Super Bowl.
"Talent is God-given; be humble. Fame is man-given; be grateful. Conceit is self-given; be careful." John Wooden
well, it ain't a bad measure ... I'd be disappointed if he didn't win at least 1-2
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
With a superbowl win
This article clearly shows that Romo is a great regular season QB. One of the best in the. league compared against his peers. Right now you could put him right up there with Danny White as far as Cowboys QBs go. A superbowl would have Danny White in the conversation with Aikman and Staubach. In the end, in Dallas it is about the ring. Romo just has to get a ring and he can avoid an asterick and become great…………………Now go get it Romo.
I completely agree with you
Romo to this point is basically a modern Danny White from a legacy point of view. He needs the big wins to put him at the next level.
by speedmetal on Jun 9, 2010 4:30 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Roger the Dodger
was not only a great leader on the field, but he was an exceptional passer, as your tremendous stats bear out. Like Romo, he could turn a busted play into something positive. i hope Tony continues to have chances to speak with Roger and pick his brain on making the most of his talent.
"We'll see." --Bill Parcells
Ive got no problem being a blatant romosexual
and saying that, in my opinion, because im only 21, didnt really get to enjoy the tripletts cognizantly, and have too many memories of a busted up Troy, Tony is the best weve had. Not to shun the past or not give credit where its due, and i get it, has hasnt really won anything.. but one guy doesnt bring you a super bowl. incredibly mediocre qbs have won championships (see the conversation i started at BGN under the marlin jackson injury) Hes had less to work with than Troy, no defense like Roger had, and in half the time as a starter, hes eclipsed them in the record book. I get it. No championship. But he is the best. And he is only going to keep getting better.
#9 has the most incredible 4 yard gain in the history of the NFL.
Romo = White
Both talented, good guys who are easy to root for.
Problem: neither is memorable to the non-Cowboys fan until they win a bling.
That’s the unfortunate truth for every starting QB that has or will ever play in Dallas. For me, I am fine with it, because history won’t view Romo any differently than Carson Palmer, another highly gifted and “nice guy” QB that’s won nothing of importance if he doesn’t get Dallas over the top.
The bar is set very high, but where else would any fan want it to be?
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
- John Wooden (God rest his soul)
Romo is Dandy Don, Not Danny W
Similarities are actually uncanny. Both were/are exceptional talents and well-respected by their team mates. And up to now, noted for their tragic failure at the precipice of greatness. I think that’s what stopped making the game fun for Meredith and he walked away.
It’s up to TR to re-write the script. And I, for one, believe he can. He’s taken his shortcomings and turned them into specific, discrete challenges to overcome. Can’t complain about that approach.
I'm not losing my memory, I'm living in the now
I don't agree
Romo plays in a qb rich league without the superior team that Aikman had. Of course hes going to win less playoff games. His OL has also been completely unreliable in big games, which is in stark contrast to aikman. I’m not saying Romo is better, but there has to be some sort of noted difference when it comes to what Aikman had to go to get his team a W and what Romo has to do. Aikman had to be a strong, accurate passer (and his accuracy was one of the best in history). Romo has to be superman sometimes.
The book on Romo is only half written (hopefully less than half, but I have a feeling he won’t be firing on all cylinders at 36 like other qbs). So far, the only hole in his resume in playoff success.
Stop the Danny White bashing!
There, that’s my first comment on this poat.
These stats should end the constant belittling of White, who was a great QB but didn’t exactly have Doomsday fighting alongside of him.
The guy was a winner, who would have won a SB with any defensive support, and who had an unfortunate wrist injury that cut his effectiveness short.
“In 1986, the Cowboys started 6-2, had the #1 offense in the NFL, and were tied for the lead in the NFC Eastern Division with White as their quarterback. During an away game against Bill Parcells’s New York Giants, however, a vicious blindside sack by Giants linebacker Carl Banks broke White’s throwing wrist, knocking him out of the game and ending his season. Dallas lost the game, 17-14, and without White, the team faded badly, finishing the year 7-9. It was the Cowboys’ first losing season since 1965.”
WikiP
There, got that off my chest.
People who bash DWhite are young and didn’t see him, or were Staubach supporters (and he’s my all-time favorite player) who couldn’t forgive him for taking over from Capt. Comeback.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
by Realist Larry on Jun 10, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
Danny White was a great qb and being compared to him is a tremendous compliment for sure. To judge him on not leading the Cowboys to any SBs is simply ridiculous because the teams he played for never had the great defenses Staubach and Aikman had.
In Romo we Trust
+11
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on Jun 13, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
So you think Bradshaw was > Staubach
Marino and Fouts were merely good, and Archie Manning was a bust?
C’mon 5B…
by Left Coast Cowboy on Jun 11, 2010 5:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I understand and even appreciate the underlying theme to 5B's posts - win Bling
As a fan, of course that is how you will measure the success of the team. And well we should as Cowboys fans, we’ve finished atop the league 5 times and expect to do it again. No argument.
But we’re not talking about teams, we’re talking about individuals. And whether that’s the leader of the offense or an all-pro corner back, the team’s success by it’s very nature does not ride on any single guy’s shoulders.
Is Romo a stud? Sure. Did we find a diamond in the rough? Absolutely. He’ll be discussed among the elite QBs, and barring injury I even foresee a HOF induction. Yes, Romo’s that good. So when even Cowboys fans can’t see past one criteria when looking at their team’s leader … well, yea, it’s disappointing.
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
Carson Palmer will never win a bling
As a result, he will be the kind of afterthought that Danny White is.
That’s not MY reality, it is THE reality.
I don’t like it, because I have a special place in my heart for Danny White. Regardless of whether I like it or not, I cannot, as a pragmatist, deny it.
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
- John Wooden (God rest his soul)
Everybody loves a winner
….and only the hometown fans appreciate the players they rooted for that didn’t win.
Marino and Fouts are not mentioned in the same breath as Montana and Elway.
It has nothing to do with how prolific they were, it’s about the BLINGS.
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
- John Wooden (God rest his soul)
The reason I became a Cowboys fan was Staubach
He was my idol and hero growing up and until Aikman came along, was my favorite Cowboy of all time. Most BTBers won’t believe this, but in the 90s I was even a bigger Aikman fan than I am of Romo now. He clearly was the best qb I ever saw play.
Now Romo has the potential to be just as good if not better than Staubach and Aikman and his legacy has yet to be written in this regard.
In Romo we Trust
I became a Cowboy fan by watching Aikman
I’m a generation behind you. Same story. Watching a QB create magic.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
Ill put the koolaid down for a second
and Terry im glad you made that point, because it IS too early to call him the best. He is just the best Ive gotten to watch play. I remember having the conversation with my dad about the guy on our practice squad who set all those records in college and swearing he would be our guy.
#9 has the most incredible 4 yard gain in the history of the NFL.
wow i never realized how far about staubach was
I hope you do a piece or maybe a quick comment where Rodger ranks all time using this formula.What are Joe M. Or steve young ranks? Otto graham or dan marino?
Really?! Really?!
by thebigham on Jun 9, 2010 11:13 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I've added a table at the bottom of the post
and added 11 of the most recognizable QB names to provide a reference for the Cowboys QB numbers.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jun 9, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
That table makes me want to start collecting football cards again.
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on Jun 9, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Staubach all the way.
I enjoy and cheer the others mind you, being a lifelong fan. I wish some of the younger fans could see just how gritty Staubach was. He wasn’t a big guy. My family screamed the roof off the house watching him play. Also, how many QB’s can say they defended starting with a judo flip?
No doubt Aikman was a better Passer
But the case could be made for Roger as the best QB.
I don’t really care, it’s like answering the question – so which child of yours do you love more?
I'm not losing my memory, I'm living in the now
Romo is good
like (Primetime) Aikman was good. I’d have to see some non-Cowboy quarterbacks on the exact same chart in order to know whether either of them deserves the word “great,” the way Staubach does. But it sure does feel nice to have a good quarterback who has every ability to win any game for you.
Still, the winning-percentage difference and (especially) post-season-success difference between Primetime Aikman and Romo should remind us all that having a good (perhaps great) quarterback doesn’t get you there. You have to be solid in all aspects of your game. The Cowboys’ defense and running game during the Primetime Aikman years was elite. I’m feeling real good about the way our current defense and running game is creeping up there, too.
Danny White
Danny was my favorite Cowboy growing up, but Roger Staubach made me a Cowboy’s fan. Growing up in Virginia with my Dad and Brother being Redskin fans, it was the uncanny ability of Staubach to turn a seemingly hopeless situation into a cause for celebration that won me over. I remember him consistently making the play and stealing victory from often times the perilous jaws of defeat.
I remember waking up Christmas morning and finding my new cowboys bicycle in front of the fireplace. It had a piece of plastic between the handlebars where you would adhere the number(s) from a label sheet. I see it clear as yesterday me placing that number 11 on there. White was just unfortunate to run up against a budding 49ers dynasty, and he truely gets the shaft in hindsight based on the inability of the team to get to the Super Bowl in his command.
Aikman was great, and the team made him Super three times, but not since Staubach, has a player made me confident on every play that the man behind center can pull of magic if the need arises like Tony Romo. We as Cowboy fans are indeed lucky to have been blessed with great quaterbacks. I just need to keep the some not so great ones that will remain unmentioned in the deep chasms of my memory.
I'm with Terry - I was Staubach in my front yard
Yes I’m old enough and healthy enough to remember Roger (that was below the belt OCC) and he’s the reason I’m a Cowboy fan. But Tony reminds me allot of him. Hopefully in time he’ll get the chance to earn a ring or two.
Roger all the way
He was a magician, and tactician. He made the same kind of amazing plays Tony makes, but he did it in the postseason and Super Bowl. Roger is not only the greatest Cowboy QB of all time, he is the greatest Cowboy of all time. Although he was only 2-2 in the Super Bowl, he took his team to 4 of them. They were in the NFC Championship game practically every year. Even in the 35-31 defeat to Pittsburgh in the Super Bowl, Roger never gave up, and scored two late TD’s in the mold of going down like a true champion. Had Jackie Smith caught that gimme pass in the end zone, Roger could have very well won 3 Super Bowls, and shared the honors with Pittsburgh for team of the 70’s.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
grrrrrrrrrrrrr... Jackie Smith
Roger’s my guy … but Romo could attain equal footing if he adds the bling to an already stellar career.
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
Never saw Staubach play
but I love reading these stories about him.
Aikman was the reason I became a Cowboys fan, but I only have faint memories of him.
I think all the "big time" Cowboys QBs went to high-profile programs and were high picks
Meredith went to SMU and the Cowboys gave up a first round pick to Chicago for him
Staubach went to Navy and likely would have been selected much higher if he didn’t have a 5-year naval commitment
Morton went to Cal and was a first rounder
White went to Arizona State and was picked in the third
Aikman went to UCLA and of course was selected #1 overall.
Romo of course went to a Div I-AA school and went undrafted. I’m just saying, for the price the Cowboys paid to get him, and with such low expectations yet able to play comparably with these legends, it shows how lucky we are as fans.
by DavidH22 on Jun 9, 2010 1:10 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
From watching Roger, Troy and Tony
I think Staubach was the best and most complete. Aikman had the strongest arm and great focus. Tony is a magician, playmaker and is growing into the leader the other two were. I don’t judge QBs by rings because that is too dependent on other factors… so count me among those happy to once again enjoy every snap the Cowboy’s QB takes.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
by dunkman on Jun 9, 2010 1:40 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Dunk you wrote my post for me
Roger might be the most complete football player the league has ever known. He not only excelled in his physical and mental skills but he was the unquestioned leader of the team that willed them to greatness. It was that “it” factor that mesmerized the nation both at Navy and in Dallas. Leadership training in the United States Naval Academy is the best there is and Roger applied it so well.
But I also have no need to compare Cowboy quarterbacks. The guys we have are the guys I have supported since Roger was drafted so long ago.
Steve Young
One of the most overrated QB’s of all time. .
For some reason it isn't allowing me to press the reply button but to Sharksbreath above...
Please explain why Steve Young was overrated?
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jun 9, 2010 1:55 PM CDT reply actions
I was born around the time Roger was doing his thing
So I never got to watch him play. I was in my teens when Aikman was in his prime, so I remember it clearly.
Roger is IMO by far the greatest QB in Cowboys history. The highlights I watch of him and the things I read are just amazing. He was so far ahead of his time, and that is a sign of an all-time great.
No doubt Steve Young was a "system QB" surrounded by All-Time greats in SF
just look at how poorly he did in the USFL and Tampa Bay. The Walsh system made good-great QBs out of Steve DeBerg, Jeff Kemp, Mike Moroski, Steve Bono, and Jeff Garcia. The stats (passer ratings) don’t lie.
But Young still excelled in that system, so kudos.
I think if Young got to start longer in SF
There would be no discussion who the greatest QB of all time would be.
Once again for some reason I can't do replies on ths thread...
but I don’t think not succeeding in Tampa Bay is something that should be held against you.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jun 9, 2010 2:06 PM CDT reply actions
That's two different teams though basiclly.
At the time Young was in Tampa Bay they had gotten so bad Bo Jackson decided to not play for them when he was drafted.
Look at every QB who played after him. I have never thought Vinnie Testaverde was a great QB, but he was at least decent and he struggled with them.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jun 9, 2010 2:34 PM CDT reply actions
Dude.
There’s a reply button.
Trust them...they know what they're doing.
by Aaron Novinger on Jun 9, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Young was as accurate as Aikman with more mobility than Romo.
I hate the pompous prick but reducing him to a guy like Rich Gannon only surrounded by better talent is way out there.
I actually agree that Young is pretty overrated.
He was very good, but I really think that without that supporting cast that was extraordinary he wouldn’t be considered a great.
But it’s a purely subjective opinion.
The discussion was about a specific player and not a team's accomplishments.
Yes, any team that accomplishes something of significance will be solid-great overall, but that wasn’t the discussion.
I don't think the discussions are different at all
You could also argue that Jerry Rice wouldn’t have done a thing without 2 HoF QB’s.
I think that without Young, those 49er teams of the early to mid 90s wouldn’t have been near as good. Even with the supporting cast, it took Young to complete that team.
My question is simple: did the guys dissing Young regularly watch him play?
He deserves the praise he’s gotten. How much can you really argue with that career passer rating? You can say he might not be one of the 5-10 all-time best, but that’s elite company … and he’s in the debate, for sure.
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
+1
We had some very good defenses against Young, and he was one of those guys you just never felt comfortable you could contain. Playing in New Orleans last year felt similar…but Young felt that way for most of a decade.
He was also one of the toughest and most competitive QBs I’ve ever seen. It almost certainly shortened his career, but he would take an extra hit to get an extra yard like few who’ve ever played QB.
by Left Coast Cowboy on Jun 11, 2010 5:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
He was also one of the toughest and most competitive QBs I’ve ever seen. It almost certainly shortened his career, but he would take an extra hit to get an extra yard like few who’ve ever played QB.
Young would routinely get smoked because teams would be teeing off of him due to the pass-first mentality of the west coast offence. I’m amazed how Young is still able to walk sometimes.
Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell
What an excellent post
thanks for an excellent post, it made me think of a lot of memories I hadn’t thought about in a loooong time :) rec’d.
I think,
Dandy was a great QB on a bad team that started getting good at the end of his career.
Roger was a great QB that made a good team great.
Troy was a great QB the grew up with the greatest team in NFL history.
Tony, I can’t judge his career until he has played more. I don’t think he’s peaked yet, but to me he can be right there with the others.
Staubach retired as the #1 rated QB of all-time
Which was an amazing feat at that time. It’s a shame that the great Pittsburgh teams took a couple of SBs from him. Although I’d argue that the Boys 78 team, defending SB Champion team, was evenly matched and could’ve won that game with a few breaks (Jackie Smith, Manster’s cast on hand KO fumble that came from a Gerela slip, terrible call against Benny Barnes, Official in the way on Franco’s TD run up the middle…).
Danny W…I’m sorry, will NEVER be acknowledged in my circles. I don’t care what his numbers were, he just wasn’t mentally tough enough when it counted. There would be no “The Catch” if Danny simply protects the ball. I had nightmares feeling just like Landry when he famously went “No Danny NOOOO!!!!!!….”
I was about to put Romo in that category until last year. Great improvements…but despite the breakdown in protection in the Vikings game, I still believe he could’ve handled adversity better if he were as cerebral and had the leadership of Staubach.
If in 2010 Romo even approaches Staubach’s leadership, we WILL THE SB!!
I know Aaron...
for some reason just on this thread the reply button isn’t working for me.
Anything said above is purely the opinion of AFB unless said otherwise.
by The Immortal Iron Fist AKA AFB on Jun 9, 2010 4:26 PM CDT reply actions
lol
this is like the online equivalent of answering a question someone asked 5 minutes ago…
which is done because the can't use the reply button.
BTW, I’ve had issues on some thread with the Z button not working to work my through through the new comments. It happens like 1 out of 10 threads or so.
you really should get an English language keyboard... those French ones are cheap crap
(just kidding … about your keyboard)
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
lol, blame Logitech, they made it
I’m sure you realize that I mean the Z KEY is fine, but the Z command does not always work
excuses, excuses!
(LOL … j/k :)
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
the career stats of Young, Staubach, and Romo
all benefit from playing only in their prime.
And Young knew when it was time to go
He didn’t hang on forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever……..and ever
Like Favre
Young retired due to concussions just like Troy.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Something tells me if Favre had 12 more concussions he still wouldn't retire
Maybe that’s what it is, one too many shots to the noggin.
Staubach was serving in the military from 22-27, how does this argument apply to him?
… and Young rode the bench behind Montana when he should have been starting for any of 25+ teams.
Romo’s career is a work in progress.
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
How can we fully judge Romo
when he is still in the prime of his career? Sure I have no problem comparing him to other Cowboys quarterbacks that never won the big, IF he never wins it. But hell he is still in the middle of some very competetive years and the talent on this current team could very well win it in a year or two. When and if that time comes I will enter my hat into the argument of the best quarterbacks to never win the big one. Would anyone have taken Marino? Does anyone think he wouldnt have won one or two with Dallas? Who knows but I will comment further once his career is done. whew // rant complete. Thanks for listening.
I wonder how Marino and Landry would have mixed.
There are so many things that would be different about the Cowboys if that had happened, most likely. On the other hand, would it have been a Marino trade rather than the Walker trade that built Jerry’s/Jimmy’s dynasty?
I also don't judge a QB's greatness by the rings he won
but it always has to be taken into consideration. Aikman was an outstanding QB. I think Romo is and will be an oustanding QB. But if you saw Roger play I don/‘;t think there’s any doubt that he was the Cowboys and one of the NFL’s best. It was like he had eyes in the back of his head when avoiding sacks. If Captain Comeback was in the game, the Boys were never, never, never out of it. He didn’t earn that nickname by accident. His will to win and competitve nature ensured he would almost always bring Dallas back. Montana was the same way. To me, Montana is the greatest QB because of it. SF was never out of a game when he was in it. Same with the Dodger which makes him, in my opinion the best Dallas ever had. Romo reminds me of him a lot which is the highest compliment I can pay Tony. Oh yeah, OCC, another GREAT article. You make statistics (which I normally shudder from) very interesting.
Roger Staubach was the original Captain Comeback......My childhood hero.
Formerly JAHII (actually, I am still JAHII, Retired United States Marine)
Thanks to OCC, Sublimz and others for the avatars!
Roger greatest ever?
One could say that Roger is the greatest of all time, using this scale, unless there’s someone you didn’t look up who comes out higher against their peers.
The media favorite Montana benefited from a much different NFL, not to mention that WC offense.
Personally, when I watch tape of those old 70’s games and how different the style was, what Staubach did amazes me more and more.
It truly was ‘3 yards and a cloud’ back then.
It’s like Ruth hitting 60 homers when whole teams didn’t hit that many.
He was the whole package.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
I suspect Otto Graham and perhaps Sid Luckman and Norm van Brocklin may have been higher
and perhaps one or two more. But I don’t know enough about that period of football to run the stats and have any kind of confidence in the results.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jun 10, 2010 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, you're going back a bit far for me too!
People from that era would have a lot to say about it.
a good conjectural discussion to have, but pointless in the end, I suppose!
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
by Realist Larry on Jun 10, 2010 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Well Bart Starr was the media's pick for the best ever in his day but my distant memory still says Roger was better
My childhood idol was Johnny Unitas and Roger supplanted him as well.
Graham, Unitas, Montana, Marino, and Romo
Are the only players to finish top 8 in passer rating each of their first 4 years
Also, someone mentioned Romo benefitting from playing only in his prime. Besides ranking among the top 8 in passer rating, Romo has also finished top 6 in yards per attempt for four consecutive years. Since the merger, this combo has only been done three times.
Dan Fouts 1978-83
Peyton Manning 2003-07
Tony Romo 2006-09
Romo is the only player to do it before his 30th birthday.
That’s not “benefitting from playing in your prime.” That’s being consistently great early in your career.
by percyhoward on Jun 11, 2010 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions
It could happen this year
Once Romo gets his 5th season of top 8 passer rating/top 6 yards per attempt, he’ll join these five names as the only ones to do it since the merger:
Manning 8 1999-2001, 2003-07
Fouts 7 1978-83, 85
Marino 6 1984, 86, 92, 94-96
Young 6 1992-94, 96-98
Anderson 5 1973-75, 81-82
That’s some company, and Romo is already on the doorstep.
by percyhoward on Jun 11, 2010 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions

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