IS MILES AUSTIN THE BEST ALREADY?
by markdamack on Jul 23, 2010 9:30 AM CDT
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I posted this in the fanshots, but i wasnt sure where it belonged. Any mod can feel free to delete one of them, from where it doesn't belong, but I really wanted your guys opinion on this..
and i apologize for the inconvience as well guys, dont berate me too bad ;)
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4669499/is-austin-already-the-best
Again, I think Andre and Larry would have something to say about this. I like the hype though. What do you guys think?
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Teams have had time now
to look at the tape and adjust to him as a #1 receiver. We will see how well he will do, and if anyone will step up to take the heat off of him. On paper we have arguably one of the best WR corps in the league, but if RW doesnt come to play again (surprise surprise) and Dez has a hard time catching on his rookie year it could get rather rough with all eyes on Miles. I am a firm believer in the opposite, but I am not ready to rate Miles the best WR in football right now just because we can’t possibly know after that small of a sample size.
Semper Fi Do or Die
Projected 2010 Record: 12-4. You heard it here first
I dont get this adjust now.
After KC everyone knew hes the number 1. Whats there to adjust. Were they not putting their best corner on him?
Do you mean like they will double and shade zones to his side? If so i get that. But regardless since he was a starter he has been going against the number 1 corner
Really?! Really?!
You may be right but
DCs now have a lot more time to look at the film and figure out how Garret is using Austin, its kind of hard for someone to get this down inside of a week.
I actively recognize my own stupidity, thank you!!!
and you can bet that the other east DCs are looking the most and if they figure something out the rest of the league will follow suit,
I actively recognize my own stupidity, thank you!!!
His stats against Philly show he got better with each game or continued to play at a superb level
1 rec 49 yds 1 TD
7 rec 90 yds
7 rec 82 yds 1 TD
All this came after KC so he already was if not the #1, the #1a…Philly had 3 weeks to look over his game film and still couldn’t figure out a way. They had 12 weeks of film, plus back to back weeks to prepare. At some point just tip your hat to the man and say he’s a baller. Let D Coords start covering him even more, more shadows, whatever. It is only opening up the field for more Witten, more RW(haha), more Dez. All while keep defenses out of the box for more Smash, Dash, Tash. Miles is the 4th least concerning player on this team outside Romo, Ware, Witten.
In that last game
Philly was using two corners on him. When he lined up on Samuels’ side, Brown was playing over the top.
They assigned both their starting CBs to him and he kept getting better.
I like it.
You kno
He could only have 16catches for the year and Id be happy.
As long as each catch was for a 50yd Game Winning Td in the 4qtr haha
Really?! Really?!
Too bad no more 'pump faked' Sheldon playing for the Eagles
Swear that guy got faked out of his shoes THAT play, AND the TD to Crayton in Week 17! hahaha
it just comes from fear
you dont want the guy to get the ball. See austin’s td vs the saints
Really?! Really?!
DCs can't prevent good WRs from getting open
If a receiver is good enough, he’ll get open no matter what the coverage. Thats why guys like Fitzy and Johnson put up really good each and every year, they get open no matter what DCs do to stop them.
I think Austin will join that elite group very soon.
In Romo we Trust
Yup Andre Johnson doesn't have a guy with the abilities of Dez or Roy
Now, Dez obviously hasn’t had a chance to show it yet and Roy is too busy hiding, but both of those guys have the ability to force certain coverages more frequently than Kevin Walters—I still love the guy though, puts up decent numbers. But Andre Johnson faces lots of doubles and triples and still produces. And as Raf said above, we have seen lots of coverages thrown at Miles and he still finds ways to get the ball, outstanding.
In terms of pure talent Austin is as good as any receiver in the game
I think once he performs consistently over a number of years like Fitzy and Johnson then there’s no question you could make a strong argument about him being the best WR in the game.
In Romo we Trust
I think the Mosley article would of been a better one to link to...
McMahon doesn’t ever post one bit of relevant info—Mosley is hit and miss too—but he at least copy and pastes in a couple paragraphs of the Joyner column that is only avail through Insider lol:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/15744/is-austin-the-best-wr-in-the-league
Here is what Mosley brought in from Joyner’s post:
Long-suffering Texans fans had clung to the perception that Johnson was the best receiver in the league, but with one mighty column, Joyner has broken their spirit. Let’s take a peek at one of the most interesting portions of the column:
Another way to measure receiving excellence is to see how well each wideout did when facing varying levels of competition," writes Joyner. "I went through the breakdown charts I did on every game from the 2009 season and pulled out the plays where a receiver faced a cornerback. I then assigned color-coded grades to the cornerbacks based on their 2009 YPA totals (which can be found in the KC Joyner Metricmania section in the 2010 ESPN The Magazine fantasy football preview).
Against cornerbacks who yield YPAs of 7 yards or fewer on average (red-rated CBs): Austin was hardly fazed by elite competition, as he posted 12.0 YPA against them. Johnson’s 8.0 YPA in this category ranked 18th in the league but didn’t keep up with Austin’s total.
Thanks man
I wish I wouldve seen that post first, tons more relevant info there.
I’m with terry 100% on this one. He’s got all of the tools, but he still needs the consitancy over time and, well…just more time doing it. These guys have been doing it top notch over several season, but I have faith Miles can do it. I think it might not be that long until they talk about Miles and Dez like they used to talk about Fitz and Boldin. Let’s just hope whoever Boldin is in that duo isn’t as injury prone lol
You aint been around in awhile, maybe you haven't heard........I don't shine shoes no more
Yup more time and having a strong threat opposite him will help too
No matter who is there a ’Roy trying to keep his job or Dez, plus Witten should make this offense even better than last season. Just having a new, highly touted guy in the mix should keep all the receivers hungry and on top of their game. All comes back to our big boys being able to block for longer than 2 and a 1/2 seconds! lol
Let's put K.C.'s numbers in context
players who top his yearly charts in YPA have a number around 10.0 – 11.0
That’s average, against ALL corners.
If Miles had a 12.0 against reds, that’s a very, very good stat to have, because it suggests he’s going to keep producing.
There are, in a given year, maybe 15 reds in the entire league. If they can’t stop him, nothing short of an injury can.
by Rafael Vela on Jul 23, 2010 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
That's awesome
Thanks for putting it into more of a context, Raf. I hadn’t bout the Insider—so I didn’t know all the details, but I was kinda curious to do so, since it’s both ’Boys and helpful knowledge for fantasy as well. Just seals it even more that I do need to sign up.
Very interesting stats
Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Felix Jones = defensive coordinator's Kobayashi Maru scenario
by APerfectStar on Jul 24, 2010 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Time will tell.
He has to stay healthy and keep the fire in his belly after he gets his money. We’ve all seen one hit wonders and the DC are going to be better prepared to defend him this year. From what I saw last year, there is no doubt he has the talent and skills to be a top WR in this league.
I'm not so worried about the money aspect.
He’s said and done all the right things so far. His comments about the contract situation put all my fears to rest on the subject. When a guy that puts up the numbers he did last season says he doesn’t have a problem playing for a $3.168 tender contract because it’s twice what he was making…that’s a guy that’s not hung up on money. He’s got a very workman-like attitude…which is refreshing for a star WR. Besides, I think his relationship with his parents will help keep him grounded.
The health argument is very valid based on his past injury history and running style after the catch. I wonder how many of those amazing, 180 degree twists out of the initial contact those knees can take? Or how long before some diving DB takes a knee out during one of those twists? Austin’s been a lot like Felix Jones…an amazing talent…when he’s healthy. I hope he can stay healthy for a long time to come.
Rabid and luvin' it
by lonewolfz28 on Jul 23, 2010 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
An Amazing Talent, But
No doubt that Austin is an amazing talent, but we need to see that succses continue through this season before we can declare him the best reciever in the league. I will admit that he was the best reciever in the league last year and did not even start the whole season. Not sure how much more DC’s in the league can adjust to him. I went back and watched the games from last season over the last 2 weeks and did not see him running free alot before the catch, but he had an amazing ability to break tackles and extend plays. I am convinced he has the talent and ability to be the best, I just want to see it extended over another season.
He's a top 10 WR, but I still think Andre Johnson or Fitz still claim the top spot
He should be mentioned in the discussion of best WR’s, certainly.
Plus, IMO, he’s still not hit his peak yet. He has the physical side of his game down, although he’s even working on trying to improve his stamina (insert Kim Kardashian joke here) But he can still get better as he is exposed to more game time. He can still sharpen his techniques to create separation from DB’s, etc.
Imagine what Miles will face from defenses now that Dallas has another legitimate big play WR to worry about.
Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Felix Jones = defensive coordinator's Kobayashi Maru scenario
If Dez makes plays early
I think Witten, not Miles, will be the big beneficiary. Teams last year were scared to death of Miles – look at Philly in the midseason game, they did all they could to prevent him from touching the ball and he still went out and made the biggest play of the game. They will readily give up the shorter stuff to witten rather than double dez and let miles beat them.
That's not a bad option either
I agree, Witten is really going to benefit from having Miles and Dez pulling safety help away. Maybe even Marty B will show up this season and be more of a threat down the seam.
But back to Miles, I thought it was interesting (and smart) that Garrett was having him work from the slot in mini camp/OTA’s. Sounds like maybe he wants to start moving him around more to exploit coverages. I’m expecting him to build on last season’s breakout performance and put up even bigger numbers.
Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Felix Jones = defensive coordinator's Kobayashi Maru scenario
by APerfectStar on Jul 25, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
yea its a good idea
you’d think with Miles physical attributes, he’d be a really dangerous slot receiver.
While he was certainly an elite wr last year
I honestly have to see him do it again this year to consider him the best. He and Romo caught fire, and when RW fizzled Romo was in a position (once again) where his #1 wr (Miles) and Witten were by far his best receiving options. What happens with Dez and hopefully an improved Roy? My bet is that Miles doesn’t see nearly the number of balls he did last year.
I think there just HAS to be some sort of regression – as I said in another thread, Miles seemed to catch everything last year, he likely had more contested catches than anyone in the league – you’d think that he would have to lose a little bit in that category.
On the other hand, Miles had limited opportunities to showcase his speed on deep routes – if our line can hold up better, that would add another dimension to his game.
And after the KC and Atlanta games, teams are NOT going to allow Austin to be single covered on those short corner/hook/curl routes again.
And then there are a couple other questions – how does he handle success? does he work his butt off to keep his number 1 position? and also, what happens if he has a poor stretch and the media gets on him?
sums it up well
yes if the line plays well and we get some gems outta the younger guys, great.
if romo has time to find weapons, then maybe we can have more balls for everyone to have a better season (JWit, Miles, Dez and even RW).
yes hes going to have to improve and grow, cuz teams have the film now and they know he isnt just a 2 game wonder. and he is going to have to have another good season, 1 isn’t going to cut it to call him elite and sure as not as good as Andre Johnson.
he seems like a smart guy and I really dont think the pressure should be a huge deal
I Don't Think
That Austin is the best just yet. It takes a couple of back to back season to label someone the best. I do agree that Austin is a beast, and I will definitely agree that he is a Top 5 WR, but the best is a tough call to make with the level of talent in the game today. Wayne, Collie, Garcon, in Indy, Smith in Carolina, Moss and Welker in NE, Marshall in Miami, White in ATL, Then you have my boys in New Orleans – Colston, Meachem, Henderson, Moore, and anyone else Brees sees available. Granted that Austin is a top tier WR, I would have to say the best in the business right now is Johnson, then I would have to go with Wayne, and then Austin. It is really too close to call with Austin having the breakout year last year. I look for him to continue with big numbers this year as well, and by the end of the year, he should overtake Johnson as The Man. I won’t say that about my boys, because there is no one specific Go To Guy. Brees throws to to many people to have one guy break away from the rest of the league.
Underestimate No One, Take Nothing For Granted
by SaintsFanInIraq on Jul 27, 2010 10:53 AM CDT reply actions
Reggie Wayne? No way.
He’s nothing special. He’s been fortunate to have been Peyton Manning’s go-to guy for so long after Marvin Harrison’s rapid erosion three or so seasons ago but there’s no way he’s still in that top tier of 8-10 guys that includes Johnson, Fitzgerald, Moss, Austin, DeSean Jackson, Smith, White or Vincent Jackson. I’d also put guys like Sidney Rice and Marques Colston ahead of him. Put any of those guys in that offense with Peyton Manning slinging them the ball that considered the run an afterthought and they put up far more impressive numbers than Wayne. with Seriously who’s the defensive coordinator that’s scared of Reggie Wayne the same way they are DeSean Jackson or Steve Smith?
Reggie Wayne
You hit the nail on the head with your second sentence. He is Mannings GTG. That is why I say he is ranked up there. I don’t like it, but he has had the luxury of one of the all time greast QB’s in history making sure he is in the top notch ranks. Dependability is the key, and it is not made in one season alone. Johnson has been a dependable and beastly WR and has been for a while. A couple of years ago I was actually laughed at on an ESPN blog when I said that Johnson was one of the very best in the league, and right now he is the top WR in the NFL. Fitz is good, but he has had a pretty good QB throwing to him as well, and I think his production could suffer this year. Moss is an oponent that you plan for with an elite QB throwing his way, D Jack is up there but his production could suffer this year, Smith is coming off of 2 injuries to the same arm, White has potential, but it depends on his chemistry with Ryan and if Ryan is going to really breakout or keep with the slightly above average, and V Jack looks to be serving a suspension, and mixed with LT’s departure and uncertanty in the running game, might not be able to produce what everyone thinks he will. I like Rice, and I think he could possibly be better than last year, but it all depends on which Favre plays this year. As I mentioned, Colston will not get the numbers to support being top 5. I think he has the talent and the ability, and normally is a sure catch, but toward the end of last year he had a couple of fumbling issues and a couple of dropped passes that worry me. All of this is subject to changing at any moment during the season, but judging Top WR’s at this point of the season, or preseason, requires a mixture of more than one factor, historically how productive has he been, last year’s production, history of clutch performances, ability to break away, make almost impossible grabs, awareness, on and off field distractions, recovering from injuries, the up coming seasons potential. That is how I look at rating players. Just because someone was good last year, doesn’t mean they will be good this year. If they have historically been good, and have made so many key plays and clutch performances, and have had a history of putting up good numbers, then I think they are the better choice at the moment. WR rankins will change from each sports show you watch and will repeatedly change throughout the year. It isn’t about a team fearing a receiver. None really fear Colston, Henderson, Meachem, Moore, Shockey, D Thomas, P Thomas, Bush, or Evans, they are afraid of what Brees will do, and the sinking feeling of not knowing where that ball is going. Drew Brees could go to any of them on any play, so they watch him.
Underestimate No One, Take Nothing For Granted
by SaintsFanInIraq on Jul 29, 2010 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions
KC Joyner on Football Today Podcast
Here’s KC Joyner on ESPN Football Today Podcast (in the second interview) talking about why Miles is the better than Andre Johnson and all other receivers in the league, according to his metrics, based on the fact that Miles produces even against top CBs (unlike for example Larry Fitzgerald last year).
He also addresses the question of judging Miles based on just a partial season, and says it is justified based on the overall number of targets he got, and also made the comparison with Chris Johnson. A lot of people are willing to say CJ is the top RB in the league based on his breakout 2009 season, but Miles did the same thing at WR, why are we not willing to give a WR the same due after one season? That’s Joyner’s argument.
Later on in the interview he’s talking about Derrelle Revis, and actually calls him the Miles Austin of CBs lol, in the sense that he shuts down top receivers just like Miles makes plays on top CBs, both of them are unfazed by the strength of the opposition. Maybe an Austin-Revis matchup for the Superbowl?
I understand what you are saying
And I don’t agree with CJ being ranked #1 just because of 1 season. He has been gaining ground on AP due to ball security andoverall roduction. AP is dynamic, and has been for a while. His fumbling problems are dynamic as well, and have been for a while. I would say that CJ is just as good as AP, just in a different way. If he produces remotely close to the way he did last year, then I say yes, he is the best in the league.
It generally takes a couple of years to properly guage a WR. There are often dropoofs in production from year to year. Devery Henderson was a hungry WR in 2006. He caught a pass in Dallas and crawled to the EndZone for a TD. 2007 he couldn’t catch a pass with glue on his hands. 2008, a little better, but still seeing too many drops. 2009, did great, but can you tell me how he faired against Dallas? He dropped a WIDE OPEN PASS THAT HIT HIM IN THE HANDS AND CHEST. WR’s can sometimes lose that hunger that leads them to being so great. They have got to constantly be on their toes and never get complacent. Henderson got complacent, and now it looks like Meachem will take the #2 receiver job away from him this year. I am leary, because Meachem has to possibility to either continue excelling in his role, or have a drop off due to becoming complacent. Same thing applies to Austin. Will he continue his career defining role on his way to being the best, or will his numbers dip.
Underestimate No One, Take Nothing For Granted
by SaintsFanInIraq on Jul 27, 2010 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions
You can't compare guys whose career years are separated by 600 yards.
Meachem and Henderson strike me as guys who are more reliable as big play receivers than ever being true lead receivers.
No disrespect to Devery Henderson
cuz I like the guy as a player(and regularly take him late in fantasy leagues as a late round flyer cuz of his deep threat), but Henderson has never been in the top of the league in terms of production. Granted, Devery has more catches in his career, but I do not think he has experienced the same kind of statistical success that Miles had. Although, I am sure Miles would trade many of those catches for a ring like DH has now lol.
I agree that players need to maintain the hunger to be good. So far Miles has handled everything like a champ. Miles has shown he is a #1, I think Devery has been given every opportunity to be a #2, but has performed has a really really good #3, low end #2, until last year where he picked it up even more.
I can't spell
It is supposed to be PRODUCTION, not RODUCTION
Underestimate No One, Take Nothing For Granted
by SaintsFanInIraq on Jul 27, 2010 11:17 PM CDT reply actions
Very hard to judge ELITE WRs
Miles had very ELITE numbers for this past year. THE ONLY doubt that anyone has on him is that it was basically year1. He had great yardage and TD numbers and very decent catch numbers, while not starting all season.
My thoughts on some of the WRs:
~ Fitz has the TDs and good yardage, but many believe Fitz will struggle without Boldin and Warner. He was definitely eilte the year the cards went to the superbowl. He had amazing numbers and was literally catching everything.
~ Randy Moss has good TD numbers and has been doing that for years. Until he drops out of either yardage or TD numbers, he has to be considered elite.
~ Andre Johnson is a beast and makes everyone around him better. He has carried that team at times and its hard not to consider him one of the Elites. His TD numbers are awful compared to his yardage numbers.
~ Reggie Wayne has Peyton, but he does have amazing catches and really makes everything look easy. Good yardage and TD numbers, he is definitely elite.
~Few speed or big play guys like DeSean Jackson, Steve Smith, and Jennings. Hard to consider them elite.
~Possession guys dont do it for me either. I cannot consider Welker elite with the little stuff across the middle. Brandon Marshall has so much potential and gets so many balls his way, its amazing his yardage totals arent better – lets see how he does now though.
Honorable recognitions:
NYG Steve Smith is a very quiet candidate, few more TDs and he could be in talks for eliteness.
MIN Rice this guy has so much potential as long as Favre gets younger.
Breaston is just as good as Boldin and younger.
The bigger problem is if Matt Leinart can’t put on his daddy pants and be half the passer that old man Warner was. Surely former Cleveland Skidmark Derek Anderson isn’t going to help Fitzgerald’s production if he’s the starter.
Again if you don’t think DeSean Jackson would be a 1,500-yard receiver with Peyton Manning throwing him the ball you’re shortchanging him and overrating Wayne whose numbers suggest he caught just as much chump change as Brandon Marshall.
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