Cowboys Camp Report 3: Gaining Steam
The Cowboys followed their full-pads morning workout with a slow-starting shoulder pads and shorts session, which gave us the most one-on-one action of this young training camp. Rotations began along the defensive line, and the incredible Dez Bryant continued to dazzle, which veteran Sam Hurd worked though a ragged practice which left him helmet-less and frustrated.
The session began with an extended workout on punt coverage skills. Joe DeCamillis built on the mornings special teams work by again breaking his units into two groups. The interior linemen worked on their releases and lane discipline while the gunners worked through a strange drill which used the mini ring the offensive linemen used on Saturday.
John Garrett had the ring rolled to the near sideline, and then placed a large red ring next to it. Gunners had to start inside the ring, release laterally under the ropes, maintaining low pad level, and then following the arc of the ring up the field. The obstacles mimicked the break from a jam and the proper release a gunner needs to take. Garrett twice stopped the exercise to advise the participants to keep their eyes up while executing the drill. Garrett clearly wanted them to put their minds into game situations.
DeCamillis then put the field goal unit on the field, and David Buehler got some target practice at a mini-upright, a narrow post about 60% the width of a real goal post. My vantage point did not allow me to see Buehler's accuracy, but the narrowness of the post made his kicks irrelevant. The drill emphasized proper kick blocking, and there were no leaks today.
The offense and defense then broke into units. Brett Maxie and Dave Campo borrowed multi-color balaclavas to school their men on route recognition and responsibilities. Half the DBs would simulate skill position players, with some wearing blue tops as running backs, yellow tops as tight ends and red tops as receivers. They would then run designated route combos, and the back four would have to sort out the combinations and attack the proper target.
On the opposite end of the field, the quarterbacks and skill position players worked on pass patterns from the 11 and 12 sets.
In the next session, the Cowboys gave the fans a split-screen drill, with the receivers and defensive back seven going in a 6 on 7 pass drill while the offensive and defensive linemen simultaneously went one-on-one in a pass rush drill on the opposite end of the field. The proper numbers were actually one-on-five. The entire offensive line would set and one rusher, an outside linebacker, an end or a nose tackle, would try to beat his blocker upfield.
Here are some brief notes from that drill:
- Alex Barron held his own against Demarcus Ware. He only got a couple of reps and more would have been welcome, but every player got at most two or three chances to make an impression. A net plus for the former Ram.
- Sam Young is having trouble containing hard pressure around the outside. Victor Butler slipped him here.
- Marcus Dixon worked on the left side in the afternoon, behind Jason Hatcher. He gave Pat McQuistan and ole move on his way into the pocket.
- Sean Lissemore worked inside and bulled Phil Costa deep into the pocket.
- LG Mike Tepper flattened his feet on one rush and was dumped on his backside by Stephen Bowen. He took Hudson Houck's advice, kept his anchor foot back and stopped a couple more bull rushes cold.
The team finished the day by assembling for an 11-on-11 drill. The units rotated 1st O versus 2nd D and the offense dominated. When the 1st D took on the lesser offensive units, the backup QBs were swamped by pressure. Jon Kitna teed up the Dez Bryant moment when he lobbed a deep ball into coverage up the left sideline. Bryant was pushed, but still managed to leap high, bobble the ball, trap it and hold it as he fell onto the sideline. I can't say if the catch would have stood in a real game ( I think he landed out of bounds) but Bryant's body control and sticky hands are amazing.
What will he do tomorrow?
Notes:
-- A nod to Mr. Steady: Mat McBriar in the punt coverage drill -- one shank. Every other kick went between 42 and 52 yards and landed withing five yards of the sideline, pinning the returner there.
-- It's early, but I wonder if Akwasi Owusu-Ansah might be a PUP or IR candidate? He ran some sprints with the trainer in the middle of practice and looked sluggish. He didn't look like a guy close to day-to-day. It's only speculation on my point, but he didn't seem pain free. He may be far, far behind before he's back to full speed. And he misses the next couple of weeks, he's a strong candidate for I.R. This happened to Marcus Dixon in '08. He was making a move and injured a foot just before the first preseason game. Playing him in the late games risked exposing him on waivers, so the Cowboys shut him down. AOA may be headed for a redshirt '10.
-- The tight ends look faster to me. Jason Witten has always been the magical man, a guy who gets separation even though he runs like he has a pebble in one of his cleats. Today, he was blasting past linebackers. Witten ran a shallow cross in the 7-on-7 that left Bradie James gasping in his exhaust.
Witten had company. John Phillips showed some real zip getting up the seam, as did Scott Sicko. I don't know if my perception is off or the tight ends worked on their explosive speed. Maybe they're just healthy, before blocking starts to sap their legs. Whatever the case, I hope they maintain their zip.
-- The Cowboys safeties show impressive speed as a group. They participate in man-to-man coverage drills with the corners and there is no noticeable dropoff in speed when the safeties run the drills. This might explain the tigher passing windows we've seen the first two days.
-- Mr. BDAO (Bad Day at the Office); backup linebacker Leon Williams. He was frequently beaten on crossing routes. He appears to have stiff hips and loses a lot of ground when his man makes a cut. Williams was burned even when he provided good coverage; Williams had Jason Witten's inside shoulder covered on a seam route, so Tony Romo zoomed the ball to Witten's outside shoulder. The ball whistled past Williams' earhole and into Witten's hands for a huge gain. Shake it off Leon, tomorrow is another day.
-- Mr. Bubble -- Pat McQuistan was steamrolled by Junior Siavii on a toss play late in the 11-on-11. McQuistan is hardly a rookie, so it's distressing to see him get beaten this way. His bubble is starting to wobble a bit more.
-- Mr. Bubble II -- The Cowboys had a few offsides today, but three of the five total from the two practices were committed by Curtis Johnson, who appears to be guessing the snap count in an attempt to get a burst off the ball. He's feeling the pressure.
-- Mr. Bubble III -- Sam Hurd dropped a ball in the late drill and went into a funk. He knows he's one step down the depth chart with Dez Bryant's arrival, and he's taking any mistake especially hard.
Miles Austin also had a couple of drops this afternoon, but I doubt anybody will remember those, unless Austin starts to make them a habit.
-- Welcome to the healthy: Jason Williams is finally getting some reps against the 1st team offense and is starting to show up around the football. In the late drill, the Cowboys lined up Jason Witten as an H-back left, next to John Phillips, ran a bootleg right and dragged Witten underneath the line into the right flat. Williams sniffed out the route immediately and jumped Witten as he snagged the ball, stopping the pass for a minimal gain.
-- chicken or egg? Marcus Spears rushed hard this afternoon, but it's not clear how much is on him and how much is down to his competition; he beat rookie Sam Young a couple of times. Young is off to a stumbling start. Hard rushes around the outside are getting past him.
-- Where's Josh? Morning standout Josh Brent didn't figure on the nose this afternoon. Sean Lissemore worked there, after spending the morning backing up Igor Olshansky at right end.
-- Finally, keep this in mind when you read other reports on the 11-on-11s. The 1s never squared off. The 1st offense got the 2nd defense and vice versa.
Your unintentionally comedic moment of the day
The team ended the practice with a team wind sprint -- two circuits from one sideline and back. It was amusing to watch the linemen, especially Montrae Holland, fall farther and farther behind the others. Montrae is a guard. He doesn't do sprints. That's for track and field folks.
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thanks for this
I’m spending the next 7 days in O Canada doing some demolition on my brother in law’s house, and will miss this site terribly during that time (no interweb access) but am Totally Psyched that I can depend on a week’s worth of solid reading being here when I get back!!!
Thanks for all the labors; it’s been a looooooong wait for camp to start….
Who is the scrub that is flying under the radar but is playing unexpectedly well?
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Who is a lower rung player that is playing well despite not receiving the pre-camp hype?
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Sounds like Phillips would fall in that category, although I think we all felt he was a decent backup
Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.
Phillips
I thought he did a good job for us last year, he stood out at times and all for the good he is one player for sure that could cost Deon his job as fullback
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I like Phillips as well.
People keep saying he doesn’t have the physical skills that MartyB does. Well, so what? Witten isn’t exactly the most physically gifted guy either. But, his heart, hard work, intelligence and maturity all make him one of the best TE’s in the game. I’ll take another one just like him…thank you very much.
Rabid and luvin' it
lonewolfz28
I don’t know the percentage plays phillips played in last year but he just always seemed to be in the right place and when his # was called to make a play he did and that speaks volumes of what kind of player he is a maybe he is another late round steal for us.
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Everybody loves an underdog, but settle down guys
Here’s the snap count for all three TE’s last year.
Witten: 1,088
Bennett: 513
Phillips: 89
by One.Cool.Customer on Jul 26, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you have any statistics that measure Dez's lousy attitude?
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
Some people won't be impressed...
until he gets that Highlight Reel stat up to 3 a day.
And even then, that’s debatable.LOL
Rabid and luvin' it
by lonewolfz28 on Jul 27, 2010 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I realize that.
But I like what I’ve seen/heard so far. My point was a TE doesn’t have to be as physically gifted as Antonio Gates to still be very effective.
Rabid and luvin' it
I thought AOA had shoulder surgery
what is going on with his leg?
"Talent is God-given; be humble. Fame is man-given; be grateful. Conceit is self-given; be careful." John Wooden
I don't know his injury
but I saw a guy who was running sluggishly; the trainer was running with him. I took it he was rehabbing a leg injury.
On the Lunch Break Today
They mentioned he injured his hamstring (I think?) during his rehab. Like you, they were wondering if he might have fallen too far behind this training camp. Let’s hope not.
Where's Josh?
He has a broken hand according to Archer.
Says he will not need surgery
but it does not help his or the Cowboys chances
"Talent is God-given; be humble. Fame is man-given; be grateful. Conceit is self-given; be careful." John Wooden
and here you go
PUP for AOA, and yes, he injured a shoulder:
(cue Mr. Archer):
http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/07/stephen-hodge-akwasi-owusu-ans.html
So, PUP, pushes him back to the beginning of the season? Looks like a redshirt season for AOA, IMO.
That was Friday.
They updated it yesterday to say AOA will be on the Non-Football Injury list instead of the PUP:
http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/07/martellus-bennett-headed-to-no.html
The team will also place safety Akwasi Owusu-Ansah on NFI instead of the physically unable to perform list.
Linebacker Stephen Hodge will be on PUP with the knee injury as will defensive end Lorenzo Washington (hamstring).
Rabid and luvin' it
What are the rules for PUP and R/NFI Lists?
Are Marty-B and AOA out for 6 games in the regular season?
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jul 25, 2010 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions
One of the reports I read...
said that the NFI guys can return whenever they can pass a physical.
Rabid and luvin' it
PUP rules
The Active PUP is for players that have some form of injury that will prevent them from starting training camp.
If placed on Active PUP, a player can rehab and participate in team meetings but cannot practice.
A player has to be placed on Active PUP before he begins training camp, so that’s why you’re seeing the stories popping up now.
A player on Active PUP can be removed from the list at any time during camp.
A player on Active PUP counts against the league mandated roster limit (currently 80).
And one of the most important rules, a player must be on Active PUP in order to be considered for Reserve PUP.
So, they’ve got Hodge and Washington on the active PUP in case they have setbacks and have to be put on the Reserve PUP to start the season.
Rabid and luvin' it
Broken ring finger for Brent
……..according to DC.com, he could be back as soon as Monday
"I just wrote the check, it's up to you guys to cash it!" - Jimmy Johnson to defense after failed attempt on 4th down deep inside Cowboy territory. AND THEY DID!!!!
Thanks for the report.
Poor Sam Hurd. He’s been a valuable special teams player and a solid backup WR but there might be to much other talent around for him to make the team again. He’ll probably ctach on somewhere else though.
Good news on Alex Barron. It would be great if going into the season having confidence in the LT and the LT backup.
Sam Young struggling with the rush, color me unsurprised. Hopefully yet another failure of this type of lineman will finally show them that they should drop this mold forever.
Bryant seems like a natural. All the important athletic things (hands, body control, agility etc) he seems to handle with ease. Once he becomes acclimatised to the NFL routes and adjustments he should be great.
I said it on draft day and I'll say it again
I don’t expect Sam Young to make the 53. I don’t know what the Cowboys thought they saw in him. He looked very ugly in the college game tape I’ve seen of him.
This O-line needs 1-3 round draft picks, not 6th round fliers.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jul 25, 2010 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah me too.
I even wrote a fanpost about it when we drafted him.
Oh well, they’ve otherwise done a decent job on the Oline lately of trying to get some more athletic talent.
And with Free, Colombo, Barron and Brewster all at Tackle there’s probably not another spot available.
haha
you guys do relize us us fans would have burned jerryworld down if he hadn’t drafted at least one lineman. Even if he was a scrub.
by Musiccitynorm on Jul 25, 2010 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions
there are spaces available
I see 8 fairly solid:
the 5 starters, + Barron and Bright and then it gets a bit soft with Holland, though he’s pretty set cause he doesn’t have much competition right now.
I need to see more of Barker at LT, but he may have a shot.
Brewster Will Be There
I can’t imagine him not being on this squad.
Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.
Forgot to add Brewster to the Holland list
though I wouldn’t say either is ironclad.
Hard to imagine brewster
not making it unless he just falls apart in TC
Whats up Jarhead?
I try to pick three obscure guys every year to watch really close aka play by plays for me. I know one is going to be Travis Bright, but I have not completly made my mind up on two more. maybe Brewster would be good?
by Musiccitynorm on Jul 25, 2010 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Norm!
glad to see you around the blog.
I wouldnt put brewster in that category b/c he went pretty high in the draft, but bright and this kid who just broke his hand (josh brent).
The other one is that safety from cinci I think. haven’t heard anything about him.
I think they saw a 6th round draft pick?
Who did you expect to find in the 6th round, Larry Allen?
Agreed on Barron
Great to have an OT backup who can swing to either spot in the case of an injury.
Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.
I'm expecting some of Sam Hurds flaws will be rectified.
I’m sure having his first child has been a little been draining. I don’t know if he’ll make the team, but I don’t expect him to continue his funk.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.
and rdv hijacks thread....lol
woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
As if Roy needed any more bad press...
?
Couldn’t get the link to work, suggestions?
Not sure why it didn't work. In any case...
Here is part of the story:
When receiver Roy Williams handed his pads to Bryant on Sunday after the team’s first camp session in pads, the rookie who was the Cowboy’s first-round draft pick last April didn’t carry them. Veteran players traditionally hand their pads to a rookie after practice.
"I feel like I was drafted to play football, not carry another player’s pads," Bryant said. "If I was a free agent, it would still be the same thing."
Williams said every rookie has go to through such rituals during their first season. He said he carried pads and paid for meals when he was a rookie for the Detroit Lions in 2004.
"No matter if you’re a No. 1 pick or the 7,000th pick, you’ve still got to do something when you’re a rookie," Williams said.
ooops
why on earth would Williams do that? But Bryant should have carried his pads.
by Musiccitynorm on Jul 25, 2010 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Roy could have picked another rookie to do that to
kind of the wrong person to ask
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Thanks...
As to Roy, he shouldn’t be making statement like this: “No matter if you’re a No. 1 pick or the 7,000th pick, you’ve still got to do something when you’re a rookie.” He seems to have no idea what most fans are thinking about him.
who made the bigger mistake for team unity?
if i was wade id have roy (the sobber) in my office by the ear tellin him goin to the press instead of keeping it in hose was most stupid then make sure that his slobber was all over the wall behind him, then id bring in dez and tell em hell carry miles pads for the next 2 weeks and learn from him while hes at it… then id turn to roy and tell him to drop the snide remarks hes been makin, or hell b carin my cup around during practices. id be pissed off !
woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
Poor Roy
He’s like the dull wife in the melodrama who doesnt realize Dez has turned everybody’s head.
Ah, they’re always the last ones to know. But we do. That’s why it’s so painful to watch.
Im not ready to write off roy yet
but man, he sure picked the wrong rookie to target. that was just plain stoopid.
A little hazing doesn't bother me
In fact it can be something that brings the team together and a lot of fun. Most all of this should be instigated from proven leaders however so as not to bring any bitterness or misunderstanding. Roy is not and should not be instigating anything, expecially to Dez. If he wanted to hand them to him after someone else had started the process, then I put it on Dez.
Amen
Well said.
While it is tradition but I agree….it should have been Romo or the like.
Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.
However
Rookie hazing stays within the positions. WR’s haze WR’s, OL hazes OL, etc.
- "If you know so much about women why are you here at the Gas 'n' Sip on a Saturday night completely alone drinking beers with no women anywhere?"
- "By choice! Man"
by fan since '65 on Jul 26, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree
Suddenly the golden child’s huge ego is a good thing?
I thought we got past that when T.O. left.
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
- John Wooden (God rest his soul)
Obviously its not ideal to see this thing happen
but lets hold off on the T.O. stuff just yet.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Jul 25, 2010 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Dez is trying to take Roy's job
they both know this. It is not Roy’s place to do the hazing with his main competition.
Austin yes, Roy no.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Bullshit , the only stars on this team are on the side of the helmet.
Carry the pads, all rookies do it. It’s not degrading, it’s team building.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
by squidlo97 on Jul 26, 2010 10:13 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It is not about being a star
its about your main competition trying to assert his authority over you in an underhanded way. Roy should have known better Dez was the wrong rookie to ask. If he wanted to haze Dez then he should have asked Romo or Austin to do it.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
great point quincyyyyy
been saying that all day,why pick the main rival for your job?.
rw was wrong and im sad to see he has some supporters here.
they miss the point.
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
So , just to clarify
you think that a rookie should take precedence over a NFL veteran of 7 years? It doesn’t matter what you think Roy has or hasn’t done with the Cowboys, the fact is, he has 7 years in, almost 2 with this team. Dez Bryant has done absolutely nothing for or with this team as of this day. Why does Roy Williams lose the right to treat a rookie as a rookie? Because people don’t like him? I am no defender of Roy Williams, but the dude has put his time in – this is his 8th training camp. This is Dez’ first. Roy has earned the veteran right, just as any veteran has – including Kevin Ogletree, David Buehler & Steve Octavien. They have NFL game time in – Dez does not.
These kind of games happen within position – I sat there and watched it yesterday. After the full team break, they split into positions. I am sure that’s where the ‘handoff’ happened. Tony Romo or Jason Witten or Bradie James would not walk over to a WR and pass his gear. He would do it in position. So, even suggesting that as an option shows that you really don’t understand the dynamic. Are not all players in training camp not trying to become starters? I would think every single guy on that practice field is trying to win a starting job. Why is Dez’ situation any different than Sean Lee carrying Brooking’s gear or Sean Lissemore carrying Rat’s gear? It’s not…..
Roy said he did it when he was a rookie. Here were his WR’s when he came in as a #1 draft pick:
- 81 Az-Zahir Hakim KR/PR
- 87 David Kircus
- 84 Tai Streets
- 88 Reggie Swinton KR/PR
- 10 Scottie Vines
Anyone on there you think Roy should have told No when told to carry pads? I’m guessing all of them, but he did it anyway.
To add, he had Megatron as a rookie – I’m betting he carried the pads, because I didn’t hear anything about it. Dez isn’t a better WR than Johnson by any means.
Dez should have just shut his mouth and done it. No. Big. Deal. I don’t see how backing a kid, who has a rep for attitude, against an 8 year veteran is good in any way. If anything, I think it reeks of hypocrisy – you want the kid to be humble and a team player, but when he bucks a veteran, you applaud him. You don’t think that will embolden him at all? You think that’s going to make him MORE of a team player? I don’t.
huslinone
I think that as long as the coaching staff is aware of the kind of hazing that isgoing on and does not disapprove of it, than positionally a rookie should adhere to what has been a tradition in the nfl and various other groups for years, after all it all should be in good fun.
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
There were numerous
guys carrying pads back to the lockerroom. Obviously I didn’t pick out every single guy, but just watching the guys walk back, I would say with almost 100% certainty that every single rookie was carrying pads of a veteran.
My guess is it was done in good fun by Roy. I have watched him interviewed numerous times and he just doesn’t strike me as a mean, angry person. For those saying he ran to the media – there was media everywhere on the field – in particular around Dez. Roy didn’t have to say anything to the media – there was no way they could have missed it. I’m sure they saw the whole thing.
extremely well said
The only fans backing Bryant are the Dez homers and RW haters. Everyone else knows what he did was dead wrong and hopefully the vets duct tape him to the goal post tonight and the trainers will have to cut him free in the morning, that maybe will straighten out his entitled attitude.
In Romo we Trust
The worst part about it is
I’m a Dez homer and apologist!
And if you put a gun to my head, I would say I can’t stand Roy Williams either.
But I do know that Roy was within his ‘right’ as a vet to razz/haze Dez Bryant, a rookie.
terry
Hopefully dez will get with the program and fully understand that it wasn’t personal that it is what happens as a rookie(whether it is right or wrong) it happens, who knows maybe some of the other vets talked to dez and explained it to him, we will just have to wait and see what happens next
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
i feel you are missing the point
if this is a traditional thing with the cowboys then ive no problem,its not physically harming the player but the thing i cant get past is this is the guy you are going to replace,basically hes trying to put him down.
from what ive seen and read this is a humble young guy that is grateful that dallas drafted him,no ego,no diva.just a young guy wanting to show his talent.
am i wrong?
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
scotscowboyfan
I agree with your assessment so far of dez, he just seems to want to do everything right, including being in the quarterbacks part of the field to make sure he knew the play calls with Romo but he also has to understand rookies are rookies and they need to just go along with it, cause it just happens right or wrong
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
dez bryant
I can also see him getting with romo b-4 games like Peyton did with his recievers
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
fair point
its just the guy that tried to do this that gets me.
i would be more understanding if if had been austin or witten,enough of this.
our opponents are delighted at this drama.
we have a good team,potentially a great one,dont let this sidetrack us..
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
as a great scotsman said
mans inhumanity to man is the greatest ..
rabbie burns..
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
rookie hazing
I’m sure players on other teams have done the same but maybe not hyped on the way it is in the media with the cowboys, we always seem to get news overblown by espn
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
This ridiculousness over traditional hazing is silly
Hazing doesn’t take precedence over team chemistry.
Roy as a “7 year veteran” should know better that asking a 21 year old rookie, whom is your main rival and has a history of character problems, to carry your pads for you would be a stupid thing to do and could lead to conflict.
Did he have a right to ask Dez to carry his pads? Yes. Was it a smart thing on Roy’s part to do? No. As a “7 year veteran” I expected he would know better given the circumstances.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
in response
what if miles or witten asked him to carry thier pads and he said no would this create a problem for anybody?
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
In that case I would have a problem
but Dez and Roy are competing for a starting job, so there is already conflict there. Roy just threw gasoline on the fire.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
exactly quincyyyyy
ive been saying that since i saw the story,why would you target your main rival?
ulterior motive to my mind.
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Hazing ALWAYS targets your main rival.
Why? Because hazing happens within the positions. WR’s haze WR’s, OL hazes OL, LB’s haze LB’s, etc. Dez is the rookie in the WR group so he is going to get hazed by a WR!
- "If you know so much about women why are you here at the Gas 'n' Sip on a Saturday night completely alone drinking beers with no women anywhere?"
- "By choice! Man"
by fan since '65 on Jul 26, 2010 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
and there is no evidence that it was spiteful
that is just pure speculation among all the RW haters.
In Romo we Trust
doesn't matter if that was what was intended
Roy should have known better as a “7 year veteran” it could be taken the wrong way by a 21 year old kid.
Moreover, there is no evidence on your part either that it was intended well.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Yeah someone who has never been in the NFL
should have known better about esoteric NFL traditions [/sarcasm]
And it is possible that Roy could have meant it in another way. In fact it is likely.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
it's not just a NFL tradition
Hazing is a right of passage on any level of football.
I disagree, I think it’s in fact very unlikely.
In Romo we Trust
not a rw hater
i just hate the fact we gave up our 2008 1st 3rd and 5th for a guy that cant catch the ball and when he does he fumbles-see greenbay game-costing us homefield against the vikes.
apart from those facts ive got no prob with him terry.
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually
Tim Cowlishaw was right there and he makes it sound like Roy was being spiteful:
And while we were asking questions, Roy Williams walked over and dropped off his shoulder pads. "You got it?’’ Roy said.
Dez said yeah, he understood.
And then a minute later, Roy was talking to some media people about the rookie carrying his pads to the locker room. "I hope he refuses,‘’ Roy said. "Then we can go to the next stage.’’
Sounds pretty spiteful to me…
Rabid and luvin' it
guys an asshole
hope the coach clamps down on this,dont let this loser spoil a great talent..
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Roy is as awful a receiver(or Cowboy for that matter) as Jonathan Baldwin is a person.
Was Dez in the wrong in this instance? Perhaps. Does Roy suck and was the trade for him the worst waste of draft picks in the franchise of the history? Definitely.
Cry me a river. You are “the Dez hater” despite a mancrush you had on a 2010 NFL Draft prospect that you now won’t even own up to. You have no credibility given your history of mancrushes and biases for and against certain players.
+1
You can do a lot of things in life. You can't stab a teammate with a pair of scissors. - Kevin Smith
dez
I thik that it really doesn’t matter who asks him to do anything cause according to espn (taken with a grain of salt) he is not getting involved with anything that is hazing, that is not what he was brought here to do.
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Every rook is competing for a job
Did the triplets get hazed? Did DWare get hazed? Tape his a$$ to the post. Invite TOol to camp and tape him too.
response with Roy E
I also think he needs to worry more about getting better with his routes, his hands and his overall production rather than asking a rookie to carry his pads!
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
alligator arms roy
get rid of them on crossing routes then you can be a cowboy..
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
good point
how many times did we see him have alligator arms going over the middle last year, maybe he had that tampa game in his head all year when he took that shot, remember?
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
if you go over the middle
you have to expect the safeties to tee off on you,its part of your job.
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you seriously going to call out other fans for being "homers" of a certain guy?
Really? Really?
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Jul 26, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
that was so shocking I did not know how to respond
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
Its surely your right to do so
but it surely weakens any comeback you would have in the future about not being a homer and simply being a normal fan since you are ceding that anyone who is apologetic for a player can be referred to as a “homer.”
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Jul 26, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I never claimed not to be a Romo homer
or a Cowboys homer at any point in time. I simply said calling a fan a hater is no different than calling another a homer.
In Romo we Trust
first and foremost
im a cowboys fan,there are players we dont think deserve to be on the team,get plays etc but i want to see my team win and wont get into arguements with fellow fans about players. had enough of this non issue.dez is going to be a player for us.rw never will.finito.
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
That I agree with.
I just thought that you never appreciated having a lot of your posts and comments being referred to as “homerism.”
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Jul 26, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't appreciate anymore than
haters appreciate being called haters.
Spade is a spade though.
In Romo we Trust
homerism? are you talking about me?
this is a cowboys fan site,hopefully we all want our team to win?.
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Not talking to you.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Jul 26, 2010 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
cool fan 729
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Its about Roy having some common sense
just because you have a right to do something, doesn’t mean you should do it.
I have a right to treat everyone I see like crap, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to do it.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
thanks for the common sense quincyyyyyy
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Money Comment
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
- John Wooden (God rest his soul)
Thats bullshit. you guys bring your personal feelings into the mix.
There is nothing wrong with a WR asking a rookie WR to carry his pads. If Roy tries to ride him for a few days then tell hgim to stick it up his ass. Thats just not the case.
Roys only authority is being a vet. They are all fighting each other for balls thrown. If Romo is who I think he is, then the remedy to this problem is "get open and catch it.
The is a clear distinction on here of those who have the biggest problem(dislike) of Roy personally are the ones with the biggest supporters of Dez. Grow up! You dont know the personal dynamics so dont pretend you do.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
Atta boy, Squidlo
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
- John Wooden (God rest his soul)
If it was Flozell I doubt Dez would refuse
I saw an interview of Choice and Marty B saying he was a mean mf with the rookies. Roy is just the wrong guy to do it. And he’s doing it to try to show some authority, which he clearly doesn’t have.
by Cowboysaficionado on Jul 25, 2010 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions
You climbed up inside Roy's head?
I hope a vet DB blasts Dez every single play.
you are on the wrong site
read what you just posted,you want an DB to BLAST one of our players!!
goddamn joke that statement.
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Hes not gona get physically punished
just heard RW today say it was no big deal and he is quoted in saying “just gona b a little more hungry and thirsty when the rookies take the veterans out for dinner”. JJ and the coaches wont let it get to the point when someones gona get hurt.
WTF?
Because he didn’t carry Roy’s pads, you want him to get physically punished?
That’s so ridiculous, I hope you were being sarcastic
Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Felix Jones = defensive coordinator's Kobayashi Maru scenario
by APerfectStar on Jul 26, 2010 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions
So the non receiving threat that is Roy Williams gives you a chubby?
All receivers are fickle candyasses with some character defect. I’ll side with the guy that can actually produce.
Good for Dez
Roy is just trying to get under his skin, too bad he doesn’t use that energy for something positive, like learning how to catch a football.
I think hazing is dumb, and if anything, Roy should be carrying Dez’s pads. Time for JJ to cut his pass dropping butt
by ChrisRichey on Jul 25, 2010 9:24 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
all rookies get hazed
even emmitt smith,
Dez will play along or it will get worse.
It is all still all in fun but why on earth would Williams do this?
by Musiccitynorm on Jul 25, 2010 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions
In the first two days of Training Camp
Dez has outperformed Roy. Roy’s ego needed to strike back. Can’t wait for the day he is cut.
This is not a Roy vs Dez thing
Its a Dez vs the veterans thing.
understand?
by Musiccitynorm on Jul 25, 2010 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions
then you would be tapped to a pole somewhere for a bed tonight.
I’ve played some sports and its in fun and really a sign of respect that goes both ways. And yes I fought back and I got tapped to a pole in the school and stripped naked. Its hard to fight 6 or 7 guys no matter how bad you think you are.
Dez needs to be put in his place and it is a right of passage.
by Musiccitynorm on Jul 25, 2010 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions
You don't get it
I wouldn’t play in an environment like this. Nobody would tape me to a pole, cause I wouldn’t participate in an organization like this.
Then we will have to agree to dissagree
why do you think soldiers go to boot camp?
It’s to break them from thinking they are better than the team.
by Musiccitynorm on Jul 25, 2010 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions
But Dez...
doesn’t think he is better than the team. Did you miss the fact that he signed before the first day of Training Camp? I would think that means more to the veterans than carrying Roy’s pads.
No I did not miss that and I think Dez is a good kid
But how do you think the veterans are going to feel about this?
Dez thinks he’s doing the right thing as do some of you, but I have little to no doube he’s about to “get it” and probably not by Roy.
by Musiccitynorm on Jul 25, 2010 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think Roy has that much respect in the locker room...
You think Crayton and his clique are going to take Roy’s side?
maybe I'm wrong
maybe the veterans will let it slide, but I really don’t think they will, nor do I think they should.
by Musiccitynorm on Jul 25, 2010 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
It’s a tradition. No matter which personalities are involved, you don’t mess with tradition.
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
- John Wooden (God rest his soul)
Most traditions, at one point
were based on practical solutions to real problems.
for example, military personnel starting cutting hair by regulation due to head lice, and not due to good order and discipline.
But the NFL, and any team or organization for that matter
…is a type of social hierarchy. It’s important that children respect their elders. It’s important that rookies respect the past contributions of the veterans.
I don’t know about breaking people down and that mumbo jumbo, but humility (especially when it comes to 22 year-old multi-millionaires) isn’t a bad thing.
Again, the traditions must be kept unless they’ve truly become useless. I don’t think that is the case here.
In fact, I think it would have gone farther and curried more favor with his contemporaries if Dez carried his pads and then busted RW’s ass to the second string by outplaying him.
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
- John Wooden (God rest his soul)
well
maybe dez wont carry his pads and still bust his ass to 2nd string.
i haven’t heard anything from dez to suggest he isnt humble.
i guess Im a little dense, but i dont see how carrying another guy’s pads or allowing them to tape me to a pole somehow recognizes their contributions to the game.
now, if dez ignores their advice on how to study film or on how to prepare for games, maybe you’ll be on to something, but i’ve seen no evidence that this is the case yet.
That makes no sense
If someone were to show up in your world and say, “I feel like I was drafted to kill Taliban, not listen to some old guy scream at me all day when my bed isn’t made a certain way”
What would you think? I could easily make the argument that making soldiers do something totally unrelated to their primary task as a fighting force is akin to what Dez was being asked to do.
At West Point and Annapolis, aren’t there a ton of things that people have to do in deference to those that have come before them that have nothing to do with anything other than time-honored traditions?
Can you imagine if some 1st round rookie DIDN’T bring Parcells his beverage? I guarantee you THAT would be public.
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
- John Wooden (God rest his soul)
what's with leaving the AFA?
Don’t forget Colorado Springs!
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
by Realist Larry on Jul 26, 2010 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
oops "leaving OUT"
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
by Realist Larry on Jul 26, 2010 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
You are right, but Parcells earned that respect
What has Roy earned since coming to Dallas, except for millions of Jerry’s dollars?
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
hers the point in all of this.....
roy made the biggest mistake in goin public at a time when team unity and bad press and perception is paramount. as i posted abouve, if i was jerry or wade id have mr roy in my office and he would not.. be heard from in press the rest of the year or it would b the pine or the road…what he did and said was far worse ….pereiod
woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
lol im soo peeved at roy i cant even spell period right! loil
woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
+1
Dez should have carried them but when he didn’t, Roy should have spoken to him in-house and not started blabbing to the media.
It's the Dallas Cowboys for crying out loud
When does ANYTHING happen “in-house” and not go public?
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
- John Wooden (God rest his soul)
As far as respecting your elders goes.
Roy is the equivalent to a drunk uncle that passes out in a puddle of his own urine on the recliner every night.
That being said Dez is in the wrong on this one. It was a non-issue that (as you alluded to) would’ve only made it all that much sweeter when Dez takes Roy’s job. But still I have so little respect for Roy or his abilities that I chalk this one up under the column of Roy trying to create a silly little sh*tstorm more than Dez being a diva.
It is The Right Thing
It is in no way a punishment thing. That is just not the concept.
Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.
hes going to get it?
do you guys hear what you say?.
hazing as you call it is a form of bullying.
usually done by a person that feels inferior to the person he bullies..
ring a bell roy?.
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I dont recall being taped to a pole ever
and Im not sure what is to be learned from it.
Breaking a recruit of bad habits he/she has learned in his formative years is a good thing, b/c the shocks of the battlefield are exponentially more than the shocks of the playing field. the outcome of the battle usually matters much more to the nations involved too. bad habits kill many more than good habits in battle.
all “hazing” in entry level military training must be geared to this purpose and this purpose only. many a young miliary professional gets himself in trouble through senseless rights of passage that have no positive impact on the overall esprit of a unit.
having said that, a little fun at the expense of a rookie is not big deal, but at the same time, I have alot of respect for Dez for manning up and saying “no,” just like I would have alot of respect for a young PFC who manned up and told a corporal, “no, Im not digging a fighting hole for your drunk ass amusement.”
Now I'm really lost
So do you think the hazing has any purpose or none at all?
by Musiccitynorm on Jul 25, 2010 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Depends on how you define hazing
In the case of carrying pads, and taping rooks to poles, i dont think that has any purpose or positive impact at all.
i do think it amounts to nothing more than harmless fun, but i have seen more harsh forms of hazing that have absolutely no value at all.
most veterans will likely come down hard on dez, while i would guess deep down they’ll respect him. i maintain that roy was a bonehead for picking dez to “haze.”
What if he's not drunk?
just like I would have alot of respect for a young PFC who manned up and told a corporal, "no, Im not digging a fighting hole for your drunk ass amusement.
Then it’s just a lack of disciplin, and that can’t be good right? What if the whole Platoon had to dig a fighting hole except this one guy who stood up?
by Musiccitynorm on Jul 25, 2010 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions
many junior NCOs in my branch
conduct silly hazing incidents after having too much to drink. they’re judgement is effected.
digging a fighting hole to learn how to do it quickly and efficiently is a good thing, digging one at 2 AM on saturday morning for the amusement of three drunk sergeants is just plain ridiculous.
I feel like Jason Witten is a leader on this team don't you?
He was one of the guys shaving heads just a few years ago. He’s no drunk nor is he irresponsible, maybe if it had been him instead of Roy this would make more sense.
It would be different if everyone didn’t do it but they do. You know what a good sergent might do? Maybe get that private a lounge chair and some lemonade and let him watch everyone else dig their holes. How do you think that would play out?
by Musiccitynorm on Jul 25, 2010 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
this is a very effective technique in boot camp
at least it used to be. making the guy who screwed up kick back and watch his buddies suffer. most guys react very strongly to that and do not screw up again.
let me be clear, i dont think what the team does to rooks usually crosses the threshhold of ridiculous hazing, but i wonder what would have happened if witten or brooking had told dez to carry the pads.
I think he would have carried them or be crucified by the fans
by Musiccitynorm on Jul 25, 2010 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions
perhaps
this will be interesting to watch, but i dont think it will have any kind of profound effect on the team’s unity and certainly no effect on their performance on the field.
as raf said above he probably got some respect from some
but in the end he has to be hazed. Or he is bigger than the team.
by Musiccitynorm on Jul 25, 2010 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
they'll get him
relax.
i dont think its a moral imperative though. every vet is probably looking forward to seeing dez on the field.
I'm so relaxed i can hardly stay awake
Thanks for your input, its funny both my great grand fathers were in world war1, both my grandfathers were in WW2, My father and three uncles were in Vietnam, but I pursued a sports career which did not happen but never got into the military.
by Musiccitynorm on Jul 25, 2010 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions
They will really get him now
But I still liked what Dez said, he will be starting week one I think. It’s not like Williams is a huge leader and respected player. If you want to read a funny story research what Seau did to Ryan Leaf who refused a Chargers hazing ritual.
IMO
You know I understand and agree...
But our ‘hazing’ in boot camp was only done by our superiors, i.e. DI’s.
From everything I’ve read about Dez, I don’t think it’s purely ego. I agree with other posts that Roy does NOT enjoy a recognized, although, unofficial leadership position with the team. I also infer that Dez doesn’t recognize Roy as a leader since the reports pretty much indicate that he has better pure talent than Roy.
Boots didn’t haze other boots. Now, out of boot camp, in your unit, yes, there was some hazing, but it was good natured and from troops who had earned respect. Roy hasn’t earned shit from the team or most of us.
I think Dez would have brought Wade a cup of water like Parcell’s had rooks do. I imagine Dez would have carried Tony’s pads and probably Witten’s or maybe even Miles, but Roy, LOL, no.
All that said, I think Dez will be hazed. It’ll be interesting to hear what happens at the next practice.
Regardless, it was pure chump to say anything to anyone, especially a reporter of any kind, outside the team. It should stay in the family. Roy is a chump.
When in doubt, empty your magazine
I wouldn't want the media to know a rookie blew me off.
So he should keep his mouth shut for that reason alone.
I do think Dez should have carried his pads, but this is all blown out of proportion.
I assume, and correct me if I'm wrong....
….you were never a part of a fraternity. And that’s OK, it’s not for everyone. What this does, to his teamates, is it makes him look like a diva. Hazing of this type isn’t meant as punitive, it’s a way of showing your teamates that you don’t hold yourself above the process that every veteran has been through already. Does it matter at the end of the day with regards to his football performance? Maybe not, but it will affect his relationships inside the locker room.
Yes, i've been a part of a fraternity
and I didnt really let my future brothers “haze” met either.
I guess they didnt mind since I made it through the pledge semester.
Not sure how thats relevant, but I think Dez has demonstrated he does not feel above the process by showing up early for practice and going 100 percent. I haven’t heard anything about him loafing through drills or sleeping in meetings. Those things would likely have a much more profound effect on his teammates.
no, im going to support his approach, for now.
If I didn't like someone then...
…I didn’t haze them. If you were in a frat with no hazing I call BS.
depends on how you define hazing
one fraternity put a guy in a “coffin” and lowered him into the ground for a couple of hours. he was a football player, after two days of refusing to put his helmet on, people started asking questions, and thats how school officials found out the fraternity was doing that.
mine didnt go to such extremes. most of it was harmless fun. the worst was blindfolding us, but my big brother was an old friend of mine so when we were alone he told me take my blindfold off and we just hung out.
so i dont really care if you call bs or not. if they would have told me to get in a coffin, i would have told them to fuck off.
BTw
most kids 18-21 years old have no idea what it really means to be tough, so maybe they shouldnt play such games.
thats what its all about right? proving toughness?
I was hazed by my rugby team in university
I didn’t attend the regular ritual where the rookies were supposed to run around town naked.
The captain decided at a mixer to dump flour on me to make me white like the rest of the team.
I grabbed the bag and threw him to the floor. In the washroom the guys with character apologized and said they did not know he was going to do this.
Hazing is bullshit.
Spot Onn
This is in no way an abuse of power but a time honored thing. Hazing a team mate is a gesture of acceptance. I doubt that it will be overlooked by the leaders of this squad, and that the rookie will have it explained, and gain understading along with an appreciation. It only last for your rookie year. Fitting in.
Were any other rookies carring vets pads? I would assume they were..it is SOP.
Hard to believe this is in any way a big deal.
Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.
Sorry Raf, but then you wouldn't play at all.
Every team does it.
- "If you know so much about women why are you here at the Gas 'n' Sip on a Saturday night completely alone drinking beers with no women anywhere?"
- "By choice! Man"
by fan since '65 on Jul 26, 2010 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Funny, most fans think...
Roy needs to be put in his place, the unemployment line.
There are probably a few players who think the same thing, beginning with Miles Austin…
If Roy were put in his place, Miles would be making Roy money and there would be no further talk of Roy being the No. 1 receiver.
If you can't take it from your position
You will catch it even worse from the linemen. Dez needs to buy some dinners and sing some songs.
I understand the tradition...
But, in this case, Roy was the wrong person to be honoring the tradition.
by LDVFootball on Jul 25, 2010 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is a Roy vs. Dez thing
No doubt about it.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jul 25, 2010 10:01 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
it looks obvious to me,
that this could develop into a problem for the coaches.
roy knows dez is going to replace him (if not this year then next year)
so is he trying to provoke a reaction from dez-meaning he believes the pre-draft rumours?.
i hope im wrong and its just innocent hazing on his part but i dont trust this guy anymore.
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Oops
Here’s what is OK about this… RW carries no weight on this team. It’ll be a tempest in a teapot at most because no one else is going to get upset about this “diss”.. My guess is that some vet will rectify this and Dez will pull some other rookie duty and settle the matter.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
i agree dunkman
but williams is starting to worry me,by targetting his direct rival for a starting job hes made a statement,ie,im the vet your just a rookie.
if nobody on the team or coaching staff puts a stop to this then i can see troubles ahead.
dez is the future,dont let this overrated primadonna inhibit this young guys talents.
hazing as you guys call it is called bullying in the uk not very nice and always causes problems.
dez stood up to him,good for dez,id have done the same.
this kid along with miles can win us multiple superbowls in my opinion.
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't disagree
but hazing and bullying are different, at elast here. Hazing happens within some kind of power structure and within an organization – a fraternity, a military unit, a sports team. Bullying is outside that structure. Sometimes the lines blur but generally hazing is thught of as OK and bullying is not.
But i agree that leadership needs to intervene, outside the media, and let this go no further.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
good point.
id hate the media to blow this out of proportion,from what ive seen and read the guys are on the same page this year..win it all !!!
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
dunkman...........
we all know as cowboys fans that it doesn’t take much to happen in cowboy camp for the media to jump on it, especially espn, and currently on espn first take, skip bayless supports dez’s decision not to carry pads of roy and since when does skip bayless support anything from the cowboys
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
the media are looking for an angle this year
theres no to anymore so they try to exaggerate any non story,just one thing i dont like about this whole thing is why did roy pick on the guy thats going to replace him?
more to it than a simple tradition.
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
regarding hazing
look up deepcut to see the effects of hazing in the military..
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Just because evrybody else does it doesn't make it right
If they really wanted to build team chemistry, there are ways of accomplishing that.
Having an overpaid has-been trying to humiliate his obvious replacement is not going to do it.
by ChrisRichey on Jul 25, 2010 9:36 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Its been a tradition in Dallas even before the triplets
Cant you remember all those horrible hair cuts? Didn’t hear you saying anything then.
by Musiccitynorm on Jul 25, 2010 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Everett McKiver was going to say something
until he was accidentally stabbed in the throat
by I_miss_Switzer on Jul 25, 2010 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions
SinceI never played in the NFL
I do not think I am in a position to say it is right or wrong. Or if Roy was the right or wrong person to ask Dez to carry his pads.
Because this is the Cowboys and because it was Dez this is going to get lots of pub this week.
"Talent is God-given; be humble. Fame is man-given; be grateful. Conceit is self-given; be careful." John Wooden
Another training camp report, another "strange drill"
When do they bring out the live chicken?
HA, major league
“we should have gotten a live chicken”
Actually, I was thinking more "Rocky" for quickness drills.
I’d love to see that one worked in pads…
by bonedweezil on Jul 26, 2010 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Roy is picking a fight with the wrong guy
I’m sure Jerry will have no qualms giving Roy his walking papers if things start heating up.
I find it hard to believe this was innocent hazing, as oppose to a guy fearing for his starting job trying to assert his authority over the main competition.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
This, i think Roy like everyone thought Dez wouldn’t be anywhere near ready, he’s now upset that Dez has made such a great start with the team and is trying to show that he’s still the man.
#1 LBJ and A-Rod fan
Haters gonna hate.
Was Roy,
ever the man? I don’t remember him doing anything last season, that came anywhere near making him the man.
If I should die before I wake,
feed Jake.
Yea I agree
If it was Miles or any other offensive position player and Dez refused to do this, it might be a little more significant to me. But Dez and Roy are battling for the same job – it seems almost underhanded or demeaning.
if any of you were the head coach ......
how would you handle roy goin public instead of keeping it in house . ?
woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
Yup. It made BSPN last night.
I started watching BSPN again this weekend to try and get some vid coverage, and boom, Dez refuses to carry Roy’s pads. With other teams opening TC, I’ll go back to my boycott of that trainwreck of a hater network.
As for Roy…dude, wake the F up. Football!
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Thanks for another good update
Roy can carry his own pads for all I care, much ado about nothing, unless you are into looking for drama where there is none.
Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Felix Jones = defensive coordinator's Kobayashi Maru scenario
I'm not so sure Roy could carry Dez's jock on the field...
so why should Dez carry Roy’s pads off the field?LOL
Seriously though, some people play along with the hazing game, some don’t. There were certain things I’d play along with in the military that were considered hazing (tacking on stripes for promotion) and some that I wanted no part of (grease and wet down for going away).
I made it very clear which ones I wanted no part of, either as a hazer or a hazee. People knew where my limits were and knew enough not to cross them. I was also mindful know other peoples’ boundaries. That’s more important to being part of a cohesive unit than doing stupid stuff to people or making them do stupid stuff. People realized that and it was never an issue. Nobody ever shunned me because I didn’t help duct tape someone to a chair, grease them up and then soak them down. Nobody dared try to do that to me when I left either. They knew I didn’t play when it came to that.
If my main competitor came up to me and demanded I carry his pads after an intense practice, I’d tell him no too. If that same person went crying to the press about it, I’d make him look silly.
Now, if one of the true grey beards like Brooking, James, Gurode or Colombo came up and said it was expected, heck yeah, I’d carry theirs. I wouldn’t try doing it to a future rookie though. Not my style. I’ll carry my own stuff thank you very much.
Rabid and luvin' it
Some notes I took yesterday
I was able to make the afternoon practice yesterday and took a few notes. Thought I would share them with the crowd. We sat about 20 rows up on the left hand side 45 yard line.
In no particular order:
1) Wade Phillips was running with the DB’s during the Maxie/Campo drill Raf talked about above. It was pretty funny to see him running. Coach does not run that well at all, but you could tell he was very interested in what was going on and he was instructing players one-on-one before, during and after every play.
2) Alan Ball is a bigger dude than I gave him credit for. I’m not sure why I had him being small-ish in my head, but he def has the height. He kind of became my pet cat for the day. I was fairly impressed with him. He’s got some speed to him. I saw him doing a lot of talking to the other guys during the drills. For whatever reason, I really came out of that practice feeling a lot better about him. He’s def no deer in headlights out there…..at least for that one practice he wasn’t. I was surprised at how big Mike Hamlin was too.
3) Raf’s not lying about Dez. I’m was cheering the selection on draft day and I am a big believer, but after that practice….holy crap, that dude just looks the part. That catch Raf talks about above was against Mike Jenkins (I’m pretty sure). I believe the original play was a flea-flicker, but the back dropped the ball on the handoff (I think it was Choice), picked it up and pitched back to Kitna. The play was off so Kitna had to run to his left, planted his feet and just threw it up. The play was right in front of us. Both Dez and Jenkins jumped for it and the jump wasn’t even close, perfect timing, full stretch. Pretty amazing play. I just don’t see how anything in the 10 yard line isn’t a jump ball to Dez. With his hands, it’s either going to be a touch or PI – I don’t see how anyone can jump with him. He also had a catch during the QB/WR drills that was ridiculous – slant, one-handed, in stride – like the ball just stuck to his hand. The guy is sick.
4) Jesse Holley made a pretty good play on a long pass play down the left hash, caught a would-be TD right between 2 DB’s. However, he would have absolutely been lit up by Barry Church on the play. I was watching Church and he loaded up and just stopped. I’m pretty sure with momentum and the way the play went, Holley should be thanking Church for not sending him out on a stretcher. Church looked pretty good – he big and seemed to have some wheels. I kept seeing his # around the ball.
5) I don’t like getting on people for being fans, but jeez, that crowd was tough. I did my best to tune out the crowd, but I really was just grinding my teeth the whole time on some of the things being said in the crowd. Some of my favorites:
A) MBIII was standing back to the crowd at the very beginning, a lady behind me staryed SCREAMING MARRRRIOOOOO!!!!!!!!! MARRRRRIIIIIOOOOOOO!!!!!! I’m never quite sure what people expect the athlete to do in that scenario. Do you really need that guy to turn at look at you? That much? Wait…..Mario? Barber? No way….MARRRRRRIIIIOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Yes. Way. Mario Barber. Ugh.
B) Guy in the aisle right behind me cussing, F this, F that, about how he wasted his time coming out there to watch a bunch of drills. Why aren’t they playing?!? He finally says, Let’s go! This is f’ing stupid! I turn and look and he’s got 2 boys with him, neither even 10 years old yet. Ugh.
C) Booing. From the stands. During drills. 3 day of practice. Ugh.
5) After practice, the players do a lot of milling around – interviews, autographs, pictures, etc. Roy Williams was one of the first guys to walk over to the end-zone autograph area & signed autographs. He then headed off into the corner, along with Kevin Brock and some throwing machines. The caught balls for at least 20-25 minutes against the wall while everyone else was milling around. I know the dude takes heat here for, well, everything, but should probably prop him for doing extra when he does.
Thanks Huslin'
I hope you’re right about Ball because I think Wade is all but convinced to start him.
When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather -- not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Nice report huslin
I like the news on Ball, the coaches don’t feel he will do worse than Ken Hamlin, and will be more active in defending passes. He’s listed at 6’1 just under 190, so you’re right about him not being too small. I watched the replay of the SD game a few weeks back, and Ball played very well, I thought. The safety that was having trouble was Sensi.
I’m looking forward to seeing Church in game action. He’s a long shot but I already picked him as my pet cat. Hopefully he can be a terror on ST, and a decent backup at SS. Maybe take the roster spot that Hodge was going to occupy.
Dez is just a natural. I think the jump pass to Dez will be a staple red zone play this season.
Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Felix Jones = defensive coordinator's Kobayashi Maru scenario
by APerfectStar on Jul 26, 2010 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Roy Williams
FYI – there were quite a few guys carrying pads for other guys yesterday. Matter of fact, I made a comment about Sean Lee carrying an extra set off (couldn’t tell who it was) at the end.
My take – I know everyone hates Roy Williams, but the dude is still a 7 year veteran in the NFL. If the guy says Rookie, carry my pads, Rookie, you carry the pads. Just do it. No need to show anyone up. Look, I can already tell I am going to be the biggest Dez apologist, homer, fan, defender, but in this case, he was wrong. If Sam Hurd said carry the pads, you carry the pads. Heck, if Kevin Ogletree said Rookie, carry my pads, you carry the pads. Big deal. Hazing? Really? Carrying someone else’s pads is now considered hazing? Jeesh…..c’mon.
And for the military guy above who said he would say no to his superior…..I was in the military too, my Dad and Grandpa retired military as well. I call a HUGE BS on that one. No…..no you didn’t and no, no you wouldn’t. You would/did do what you were told or you wouldn’t have lasted long. No one was asking you to commit a crime or anything. You respected the rank, not always the individual.
I love me some Dez, but def side with Roy Williams on this one.
My 2 cents….
Nicely said.
Although, we will find out a little bit of the team leadership with this…Does Romo speak to Dez about this?
This is why Bryant lasted to #24
The prima dona attitude has to go or else there’s going to be trouble. I don’t care if Buehler told Byrant to carry his pads, he’s a freaking rookie so he has to do it, no questions asked. This is why I thought he was a risky pick despite his immense talent.
Not a good sign IMO.
In Romo we Trust
I'm not sure I go that far
but I can’t say I like it either.
I’m 1000% sure it’s because it was Roy Williams that said do it. Miles says do it, I’m guessing he would do it.
Personally, I think there’s a real issue with the brutal treatment of Williams insofar as if no one outside of the team respects the guy, why would a rookie respect the guy? I’m sure Dez figured he would come out on top in this one because it was Roy. And, for the most part, he’s right – look at the comments on here. There’s support for a rookie bucking up to a 7 year vet because he asked him to carry his pads. Carry his freaking pads. And there are people on here saying that’s hazing. Jeez…..I guar-an-tee if that was Miles Austin, and Dez said no, Dez would be getting killed on here.
People hate on Roy so much that the guy can’t go to the bathroom without someone jumping his case. Crazy.
That many wasted draft picks for a gimp tend to ruffle the feathers of devoted fanbases.
Roy has as much street cred as a punter. In fact, McBriar should be much more respected than Roy Williams considering he’s actually elite at his job.
It's too early for that
Dez sees himself as competing with RW for the starting spot. That’s quite different from another vet telling him to do it. That said, Dez’s public image willl take a hit and I’m sure people are already in his ear.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Roy could have picked another rookie to do it
not his main competition, because it could have been taken the wrong way and it was. If Miles Austin did it then it would be different.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
When Roy is beat Myles will be in his sights for more balls thrown his way
Will it be ok when it’s Myles turn to be dissed.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
by squidlo97 on Jul 26, 2010 2:45 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
yeah
No way was that idiot in the military (unless it was the Chair Force-that is possible). You say no when a officer or NCO gives an order and your butt is fried.
Reminds me of the scene in Super Troopers
when the kid said that the cop was lucky, because he was about to bust-a-cap-in-his-butt. Then the cop turns around…..
BULLS@#$
In boot camp is one thing. After that you become a soldier (army). Anything after that is bull. If someone goes on a power trip and makes you do something not job related you defn can say no.
KP duty or Fire/Roaming guard shifts fine. Thats needed. But an NCO/Officer making a mosquitoe wing dig a hole at 2am or run around naked is pointless and does not teach anything.
Dez is in the right. He has the same train of mind I have. He wants to do his job and do it better than anyone else. Hes not here to play stupid games.
Really?! Really?!
Sweet holy hell
no one said to friggin run naked around the Alamodome. It’s friggin a set of shoulder pads. Jeezus….I feel like I am in the movie Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Are you guys just f’ing around? Is everyone giggling when they type this?
Shoulder pads does not = digging a hole at 2 am or running naked.
Big. Freaking. Deal.
Damn…..
What does carrying someone elses equipment prove?
Nothing. What does it teach? Nothing.
Really?! Really?!
And by the way Bigham
They are in “bootcamp” right now.
He’s not telling Dez to carry the pads after the game in Week 7.
But he is not in the position of Superior
Hes not the coach the owner the trainer. Hes another player. Dez isnt talking back to wade, ray, jason, jerry, or joe. He said no to someone who is in all right an equal. A fellow player
Really?! Really?!
He's a veteran and Dez is a rookie
Yes, he is in a superior position on the team., albeit not in a coach/player manner. For example, who do you think gets the primo spots on the plane? The bus? The lockerroom? How long does Sean Lee sit in Bradie James’ chair in LB meetings before he gets his butt handed to him? You think AWA picks the music in the lockerroom? Does Sam Young go first in the chow line? No, no, no & no.
the guy whos job your taking
tries to put you down publicly and you would accept this?
no way in hell,any other vet and id say ok but not rw.
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
it's not putting him down
he told him to carry his pads, nit wipe his ass for crying out loud.
In Romo we Trust
I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a 21 year old rookie to take it the wrong way
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
you're kidding, right?
If Bryant doesn’t know that rookies get hazed and thats all RW was doing, then maybe the questions about his intelligence pre-draft were right after all.
In Romo we Trust
Really?
thats all RW was doing
How do you know that? Out of all the rookies Roy asked Dez. Why not Hudgins? Why did he choose his main rival who could lead to him getting cut after this year?
I think you are assuming a lot Terry.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
maybe he will today or tomorrow
I think asking Bryant first is appropriate since he was our first rounder. You RW haters are making way too much of RW singling out Dez, I think you’re the one assuming too much.
In Romo we Trust
LOL I will admit that much
I hate Roy Williamses: safeties, wide receivers, coaches. I don’t like them.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Is there anyone with that name who does not annoy me in some manner?
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
I think there is a lot of tension
between RW and Dez. RW has a chip on his shoulder, because they drafted Dez and Dez is a diva WR. They’re like oil and water.
not true at all
I hated the trade the moment it happened and told everyone he was overrated back in the fall of 2008….this has nothing to do with RW as many BTBers would have you believe
In Romo we Trust
quincyyyy:
Wide receivers do not haze other positions (NT, DE, LB, OL) and Dez is the WR rookie. That is why it was Dez.
- "If you know so much about women why are you here at the Gas 'n' Sip on a Saturday night completely alone drinking beers with no women anywhere?"
- "By choice! Man"
by fan since '65 on Jul 26, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
but it did not have to be Roy. Miles, Crayton, hell, Jesse Holley, and I'd have no problem, but Mr. Underachiever (except for blocking) and I have no issue with Dez telling him to stuff it
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
Miles is a veteran and the undisputed #1 receiver on this team. Roy is an underachiever who would have been cut but for Jerry's money and ego. Roy has earned nothing on this team, not a thing.
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
He and Crayton still have more NFL years under their belt
than any receiver on the team. You can’t dispute that despite your RW hate.
In Romo we Trust
and you cannot dispute that Roy has earned nothing on this team, not a damned thing. In addition, he has not been in Dallas all that long: Crayton and Miles have more seniority with Dallas than Roy has
As for me being a roy hater, what is there to like? Please answer. I am genuinely interested in what you see in Roy that I am missing.
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
I don't really think this is a serious thing.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.
I don't like RW anymore more than you do
but this has nothing to do with RW and it’s sad you can’t see that. It has to do with a rookie not respecting a veteran and it’s BS that RW hasn’t earned that respect.
He might be overrated as a receiver but he’s played in the league for 7 years and has been to a pro bowl, so he’s accomplished much more than Dez has so far in the league.
In Romo we Trust
bull
see my comment at the bottom
Roy is the eternal under performer and being in the league for 7years does not mean squat. He holds no weight in the Cowboys organization.
Really?! Really?!
I think 13 million holds a lot of weight
and 7 years in the league does mean a lot, it means he’s played 7 years longer than Bryant and that in and of itself earns him that right.
In Romo we Trust
Receivers are divas by nature.
Nothing about Marvin Harrison’s quiet on-the-field demeanor would lead you to suspect that he was a pistol-packing hooligan off the field. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/14/marvin-harrison-shooting_n_423586.html
All receivers have their quirks. If Dez’s most egregious quirk is refusing to carry a total joke like Roy William’s shoulder pads as part of some arbitrary rookie ritual, boo friggin hoo. Especially if Dez is able to duplicate Randy Moss’s rookie season.
thats a pipedream
Bryant won’t come close to that feat simply because there are too many other weapons on the team.
I don’t care about quirks but I do care about disrespect and bad attitudes and so should every other fan if they really care about the team.
In Romo we Trust
Moss played on an offense with Cris Carter and Robert Smith.
It’s unlikely he’ll have the monster rookie season Moss had but 900-1,100 yards isn’t out of the question depending on when he overtakes Roy.
The issue is one of perception. Personally I don’t think that Dez was disrespecting a veteran as much as he was disrespecting underachieving assclown Roy Williams and the latter is as much of a non-issue to me as if Tim Tebow refused to do Jager shots with Kyle Orton.
he shouldn't be disrepsecting any player...thats the point
You can hate RW all you want and feel he’s worthless, but as a 7 yr vet he deserves respect by a rookie who hasn’t accomplished anything in the NFL yet except display ability in practices we already knew he had.
In Romo we Trust
Nobody deserves respect unless they have earned it, and Roy has not earned it
Let me go further: If Roy was on fire, I would not stop to piss on him to put it out.
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
Dude!
Even most Eagles fans wouldn’t say something like that.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jul 27, 2010 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Only because...
they’d be happy to piss on him even if he wasn’t on fire.LOL
Rabid and luvin' it
by lonewolfz28 on Jul 27, 2010 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
OK, OK, I would piss on him to put the fire out
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
LMAO
Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Felix Jones = defensive coordinator's Kobayashi Maru scenario
by APerfectStar on Jul 27, 2010 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions
This isn't your average rookie/veteran conflict.
As cookie cutter as carrying somebody’s shoulderpads off the field is, if Dez took it as Roy being a condescending prick, a condescending prick whose job he’s going to take in four to six weeks, power to him for not giving this goof an inch.
Geez Terry
As much bs as Romo has had to be defended on, I’d think you’d be a little less critical of our future star WR.
He’s done 99 things right, and 1 thing wrong (not even a big thing), and you’re all over him like he’s TO junior. I can assure you he’s not.
You are being pretty hypocritical, IMO. This kid said he wanted to help this team win a championship, his favorite team growing up, and when asked about what the most important thing he wanted to get done in camp, he said ‘gain the trust of the QB’.
Tell me when the overpaid vet RW says something as mature as that.
Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Felix Jones = defensive coordinator's Kobayashi Maru scenario
by APerfectStar on Jul 27, 2010 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions
And doesn't say it...
into a press microphone.
Rabid and luvin' it
by lonewolfz28 on Jul 27, 2010 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Training camp IS the boot camp of the NFL.
These games stop week 1. And Roy didn’t PICK Dez. Hazing stays within the positions and Dez is the only rookie receiver.
- "If you know so much about women why are you here at the Gas 'n' Sip on a Saturday night completely alone drinking beers with no women anywhere?"
- "By choice! Man"
by fan since '65 on Jul 26, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
but Roy is not the only veteran receiver
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
hazing?
Although soon enough Roy will be carrying Dez’s pads, he should do what all other rookies do and respect the veterans, I to was military and went thru it and I didn’t like it at all but learned quick that this is the way it is newbie.
The guy from above
I’m way too lazy to go back through and read all those again, man – I read all of the above comments and took that away from it.
If it doesn’t pertain to you, I’m sure I meant the other guy.
Either way...
You may want to rethink the part where you said:
“No one was asking you to commit a crime or anything. You respected the rank, not always the individual.”
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/marines/a/marinehazing.htm
Marine Corps Order 1700.28, which defines hazing and the Marine Corps’ intent on the issue, states that “no Marine … may engage in hazing or consent to acts of hazing being committed upon them.”
The order defines hazing as any conduct whereby one military member causes another military member to suffer or be exposed to an activity that is cruel, abusive, humiliating or oppressive.
So yes, they would indeed be asking you to do something illegally.
Rabid and luvin' it
Are you seriously
defining carrying a set of shoulder pads as something that would fall under that Corps Order. Seriously? No……seriously? Seriously? Wait…..seriously?
You might want to rethink that answer.
If you answer anything besides absolutely not, I think I will get physically ill.
Carrying a set of shoulder pads……
accountabilty
You arent going to hand your ruck to someone else. Carry your own weight. Roys a big boy. Its just a sad and pointless tradition.
This is all over ESPN mike and mike obviously on Roys side. Vet or not really they are complaining about Dez making such a big deal about it. How about Roy making a big deal about awww coach Dez didnt carry my pads.. thats not fair!!
Really?! Really?!
Well that's not true
There were many times where I carried another man’s ruck for him – sometimes because he couldn’t handle it and sometimes as punishment. It wasn’t a big deal and I most certainly didn’t say no.
well its a different story if you were helping him
But in no way ever should it be a punishment… maybe has punishment you have to carry the saw or radio or something but why should you carry someone elses ruck hell why would someone else want to be without their ruck.
Maybe if Roy told dez to grab the dummy bags or pick up the cones or something fine. It has to be done.
Really?! Really?!
And don't kid yourself that this had
anything to do with Dez “sticking up for himself”. Do you truly believe Dez wouldn’t have popped to if Michael Irvin (player Irvin) had told him to carry his pads, and every set of pads from the O-Line?
Of course he would. It has everything to do with respect. Everyone in Dallas disrespects Roy, so why should Dez?
My overall point is you have rookies determining, based off of public/media perception, who they do and who they don’t have to listen to. I’m guessing that can’t possibly be good for the team – even on a very minor level.
I’m not at all surprised that vets are coming to Roy’s side – I’m willing to bet that lockerroom is on Roy’s side as well. Why? Because the kid wouldn’t carry a set of shoulder pads back to the lockerroom. Just not worth it.
Nope maybe I can see Roys point
Except Roy in no way shape or form has respected Dez. Roy has a motive. Roy went to the media with a motive. Roy is trying to get under Dez skin for no other reason than personal gain
Really?! Really?!
Objection, your Honor,
pure conjecture on the part of thebigham
I don't understand why you keep saying that?
Do you know the timeline? Was Roy asked about it? Or was he responding to Dez? Did Dez bring it up first?
I think I’m getting way deeper here than I intended. Let me go back to my original point.
Carrying pads does not, in any way, shape or form = running naked through the Alamodome. It does not constitute hazing.
If Roy has a reason for doing it, so be it. Big deal. It’s not like he made something up out of the blue, nor did he ask Dez to do anything that hasn’t been done to rookies over the years. If Dez lets something like that “get in his head”, well, I really worry about what he’s going to do when CB’s start taunting him about his mom……because I guaran-friggin-tee they are writing out what they are going to say.
If I’m Dez, I shut my mouth, pick up the pads, walk them to the lockerrroom, put them down in front of Roy’s locker, and then I go beat his a** the next practice. Simple. No drama. No issue. Plus, what’s the better screw you – to do it this way and make a big deal out of it or to not say a word, show that it doesn’t affect you in any way and then go make highlight reel after highlight reel catch and ultimately, make the team cut the other guy?
Word.
If Dez lets something like that "get in his head", well, I really worry about what he’s going to do when CB’s start taunting him about his mom……because I guaran-friggin-tee they are writing out what they are going to say.
As I responded to Terry on another thread, maybe Dez didn’t “get” that it was tradition rather than personal. Maybe he needs a heads up from another vet.
But if he refuses to sing his alma mater song and other rookie “stuff” there might indeed be an arrogance problem emerging.
"We'll see." --Bill Parcells
"get in his head"
id love to see a cb taunt dez about his mom,then chase his heels on a post route as he burns his ass.
this young guys the real deal,watch him explode on the scene..
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd love to see it too.
"We'll see." --Bill Parcells
by Uncle Angus on Jul 26, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
What part of...
“humiliating or oppressive” don’t you understand?
Telling a subordinate (rookie) to carry your stuff just because they’re a subordinate (rookie) and you want to subordinate them further is hazing.
Rabid and luvin' it
ACCCCCCKKKKK!!!!!
Humiliating and oppressive?!? AAAAasdjfasdhvkl;ansdvasdnkv!!!!
What the what? Dude – you have to be laughing your butt off at me while you type this. You just have to be. Carrying a set of shoulder is humiliating and oppressive to you?
Man oh man – you might want to change that moniker to lonesheep28 or lonekitty28 or something. My goodness man….
Might want to reread the Community Guidelines you agreed to when you joined then.
Rabid and luvin' it
Well here's to hoping
that the minds behind BTB aren’t as thin-skinned as you seem to be
humility
Although I do believe Roy is trying to show the rookie up cause he hears the footsteps closing in, this is a traditon in football that is useless in my opinion but does happen.
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions
so if its useless why doesnt someone step up and stop it
Thats what I never get. Its 2010 not 1960. Just because you always been doing it doesnt mean it serves a purpose anymore.
Really?! Really?!
so if its useless....
Probably cause it was done to them so they want to do it to someone else, most of the time it is done in good fun, but at times it can get carried away, just like wog day for all those who were in the navy and the corps know what I mean.
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions
ok if its done in good fun
probably cause roy tried to show up the rookie and instead he got showed up like getting a pie in his face.
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Says who? Says you
Because I saw a bunch of rookies carrying gear yesterday. I made the comment that Sean Lee was carrying a set.
How would you know if it doesn’t serve a purpose?
And again, why can’t things be “in fun”? Guys get pies in their face on baseball interviews. What purpose does that serve? I’d say that’s pretty humiliating, isn’t it? Ban it.
Jeez….lighten up.
What if I told you
that Sean Lee was carrying Keith Brooking’s gear? Same reaction? Brooking have motive there?
Point is – you, like everyone else, seem to be clouding your judgment and making comments because of your dislike for Roy Williams. Okay, fine…..but jeez man, be fair. Get mad at the guy for the things that he deserves. I can assure you, this isn’t one of them.
ok and if sean lee said no?
Would brooking run to the media.
Plus plus plus.. I can assure you the relationship between brooking and the men below him is completely different than Roy and Dez Beside him
Really?! Really?!
I don't see that proving your point
I don’t see Sean Lee saying no to anyone. I don’t see any of the other rookies saying no to any of the vets. Except for Dez.
How is the relationship different? Rookie, vet. It’s fairly cut and dry. Everyone is trying to take everyone’s spot out there.
nope
Brooking has the respect hes earned it. Roy has done nothing but make inappropriate comments about dez in the media. Why should Dez respect someone when they dont respect him
Really?! Really?!
Please post
said comments
I haven’t seen Roy say a single thing bad about Dez Bryant.
Haha! Think of it as someone posting Fanshot in a new person’s Fanpost.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jul 26, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Honestly huslinone i see your point
However, although you are saying that carrying shoulder pads is not the equivalent of digging a foxhole, and I buy that, but later you did equate training camp to boot camp. So which is it if one is the equivalent than they both should be. I personally feel its a non issue and who the f&@k cares. All I know is that they both better show up to play come Sunday Night Football in DC for the opener./ my 2 cents
good point bval77
In the end the only thing that matters is game #1, kicking the crap out of those deadskins and leading the way to #6 BABY! Everything is just a conversational piece.
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Meant to say everything else is a conversational piece.
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh by the way first time blogger but been visiting this site for years and love reading all you guys comments and articles
great, welcome
make sure to comment more often.
by Musiccitynorm on Jul 26, 2010 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions
2:15 pm CET
Full camp schedule here.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jul 26, 2010 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions
thank you
hey who else is ready for a great year, I am so pumped up, I watched the video from Friday night’s preview show and it just got my blood flowing and wish that the season starting next weekend
I watched it
and got really pumped as well.
by Cowboysaficionado on Jul 26, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Cowboysaficionado............
It’s not that difficult to get pumped up watching our dancers and cheerleaders, who I think is by far the best in the league.
by carolinacowboy on Jul 26, 2010 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions
It must be like 100 comments about this Dez Roy crap
Dez is wrong. But it shouldn’t have been Roy to do it. There’s little doubt in my mind that if it was Romo, Ware, Witten or Austin we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
by Cowboysaficionado on Jul 26, 2010 9:24 AM CDT reply actions
Brett Favre
Espn First Take is getting ready to talk about Brett F again, anybody else tired about this coverage, will he or won’t he be back?
apologies to raf
great post as usual,got caught up in this rw v dez thing.
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Jul 26, 2010 10:08 AM CDT reply actions
Dez, Roy and Shoulder Pads
Dez had a chance to not humiliate Roy Williams but Roy Williams but himself in position to be humiliated.
If anyone should be hazing Dez Bryant, it’s Romo or Witten, or Andre Guroude. Players who’ve been with the team and aren’t goats.
by AustonianAggie on Jul 26, 2010 10:33 AM CDT reply actions
This would have been different if it was a player like Romo, not Roy, the guy who is about to lose his job to Dez, that’s why I consider Roy the bad guy here, he did it out of jealousy and Dez wasn’t going to put up with it. Dez signing his contract quickly, showing up first, leaving last, and looking damn good in training camp has made him earn credibility in my eyes, so I’m 100% on his side. This rookie taunting BS is old anyway, people should grow up.
#1 LBJ and A-Rod fan
Haters gonna hate.
Wow! So many people have such strong opinions against Dez...
This is a minor issue that will get addressed by the team. The team leaders let him know why rookies get hazed, and how it adds to team camaraderie. Dez will understand and fall into line.
+1
I think this is overblown. Whoopity doo.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.
Couldn't agree more
It’s been embarrassingly overblown. Get a grip people.
Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Jason Witten, Felix Jones = defensive coordinator's Kobayashi Maru scenario
by APerfectStar on Jul 26, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Furthermore, the backlash against Roy WIlliams is pretty unfair.
He has not performed to his contract, but he has put up respectable numbers, and he has been nothing but a good team mate since he got here…
Good to see a minor training camp issue has successfully polarized everyone here.
Can’t wait to see what happens when the O-line and D-line get in a scuffle in a few practices.
The fact of the matter is that if its a big issue in the locker room than another vet will ensure that Dez makes up for the pad-carrying and if it isn’t than it will just fade from memory soon enough. I have to say though it would be nice if this type stuff could stay in-house. On the one hand though, the fact that Roy was able to talk about to the media suggests that it probably isn’t a huge issue.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
you are correct
i didnt want the dez and roy thing to control all these blogs. Im all about the positives. i think dez will be great and if roy isnt this year he is gone. but the best part about all of this is im excited for this year. we have austin, witten, dez and roy as pass targets. could you imagine that with the 06 roy williams or even the 07 RW playing with a dez bryant that lives up to half the hype? Be colts type numbers on 3rd down % and be crazy for defenses on 4 and 5 wideout sets.
Ok this is how I see it
Roy is like that under performing solider who has been a spec4 for the past 6years.
Dez is that High Speed young guy that came in as an E3 or E4.
Roy is trying to pull rank when he is in no place to pull rank. Maybe he would of had that opportunity if he wasnt a bum and performed up to par what he is suppose to.
This is like Roy running to the CO “Sir he didnt stand at ease when talking to me wah wah”
Roy needs to get over it. In no way shape or form has Dez shown he disrespects leadership the coaches or the owners. In no way shape or form has Dez gave the impression he is entitled to anything. In no way shape or form is Dez a diva.
This stupid and Roy should be a man and not run to the media
Really?! Really?!
nope, all wrong, Dez is a bad seed, and should be playing in Baltimore
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
Yeah what was that Ozzie Newsome thinking?!
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.
in reality, this is dead right, no arguments from me
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
What?!?!?! Do you have a link for that?
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
Wow, now I am pissed that De did not pop him in the mouth and say "carry your own damn pads"
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/

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