Proposed Dallas trade: Free and 1st rounder for...
by Rickyy. on Jul 30, 2010 12:50 PM CDT
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PrintHey everyone, this is my first fanpost, so forgive me if I do something wrong.
I was checking out NFL.com and saw this trade idea from Michael Lombardi, and just thought you guys might want to check it out. This isn't my opinion, nor what I think the Cowboys should do, so keep that in mind as you read.
You can find the rest of the article here.
Proposed Dallas trade: 2011 first-round pick and OT Doug Free to Tampa Bay for OT Donald Penn.
Let's face two facts:
1. The Bucs are not going to win the Super Bowl this year.
2. They do not seem willing to spend big money on signing or re-signing any players.
One of the Bucs best players, Penn plays a position of importance (left tackle) and coveted by all teams. Regardless, the Bucs do not seem serious about signing him to an extension. They would much rather have him play out his tender, which is odd given the huge money they invested in 2009 first-round quarterback Josh Freeman.
With an apparent youth movement happening on and off the field in Tampa (one of the reasons for the dismissal of former coach Jon Gruden), Penn, in theory, should be part of that movement. But because he will command huge money and maybe because current general manager Mark Dominik does not seem to have the power, persuasive ability, belief in Penn, or clout, it doesn't appear the Bucs will sign Penn to an extension.
- Ricky.
Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.
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For me, too many eggs in one basket
Sounds too much like Joey Galloway. If the guy has his leg fallen on by Gurode during a run play? You’re out too much for one player.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
I agree
i might be able to part with a 1st rounder but that’s it, I wouldn’t include free in the deal. I’ll keep free as insurance.
Agreed we know free can play RT well and we still need to find the RT of the future
why cut yourself in the throat over this trade
I actively recognize my own stupidity, thank you!!!
how about we trade something else
for Davin Joseph or Jeremy Zuttah.
Interior line will be more of a prob than T.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
I don't like it.
I am not really concerned about our tackle positions except for maybe Colombo and his return from injury.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
I think Free will be better. I dont worry about his ability to play the LT and he offers more
skills for the run game. He goes against Ware in practice so I know he is seeing a beast of a pass rusher. I know the coaches have pulled him(Ware) aside and told him to cut loose on Free see to if he is up to the challenge.
If Free tanks it in preseason then I might be open to it. I just dont believe that will happen. Throw in the fact that with either of those guys here, we still need some Oline in next years draft and no 1st rounder. That puts us right back where we are.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
Free will be better then what? Better than he was last year, or better than Donald Penn?
Formerly Bye, Dawk :(
Both! Free played great at RT.
He struggled(to strong a word, but I cant think of another) when he took over for Columbo in the GB game. Settled down quickly and played outstanding the rest of the season. After playing RT for 6 weeks he gets tossed in at LT in the 1st quarter against one of the best pass rushers. For the sake of aurguement I’ll put the sack on Frees shoulders(Witten whiffed) on Frees 1st series. After that he settled down. I truely believe he he had a week of preparation on the left side he would have done well.
Remember last year when you began and ended every conversation with 18 career catches. Remember how wrong you were. Dont allow yourself to be that wrong again.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
"if he had"
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
Actually, Austin was the one WR I thought had some talent heading into last year. Had no idea he was this good, but nobody else did either. And if I did note that he had 18 career catches, wouldn’t that have been a fair think to mention?
Anyway, that aside, I’m not saying (nor have I said) Free isn’t promising. But he’s not Donald Penn. Donald Penn is in absolute obscurity down in Tampa on a God-awful offense, so nobody knows anything about him. He’s a bona fide stud LT, and would be an immediate significant upgrade over Free.
Formerly Bye, Dawk :(
by JimmyK on Jul 30, 2010 6:35 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The question isn't "Is Penn better than Free":
It’s “Is Penn worth giving up a promising young starter, a first rounder, and a long term, big money contract?”
Probably not.
by Big D Bam Bam on Jul 30, 2010 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Penn also has weight problems, which is why Tampa won't extend him
He’s a quality player, no doubt, but giving up Free for him and a number one is ridiculous. Free is stoning Demarcus Ware every day in practice. Some of his games will probably be steps down for him.
I think Free is better. I think he will be one of the better tackles in the NFC.
Doesnt have the pub to make the pro bowl but will be top 3(NFC) none the less.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
Free struggling in the Minnesota game is myth.
Had he struggled that must against Allen don’t you thing ESPN and the NFL Network would be playing that video of Allen beating Free over and over again until you had to break your TV or change the channel.
They constantly mention it but don’t back it up with any video evidence.
The one play Allen beat both Witten and Free, it was Witten who blow the assignment of forcing Allen back inside were the help was from Free.
Can some show me a video of Free getting beat by Allen in that game?
Woodson is a Hall of Famer!!!
Agreed
Edwards killed us in that game, and he was victimizing Colombo. Allen made 2 plays, and they were both against Witten.
Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.
If Free tanks it in the pre-season, he won't be much use in a trade
I have no idea how good Penn is, but if he is abig improvement, this makes sense
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
Nah, I wouldn't bite on this
Free will do a decent job this year, and if he isn’t the future at LT, then we can simply draft a younger, cheaper, LT in the first round next year.
by JoeyJoeJoeJr.Shabadoo on Jul 30, 2010 4:22 PM CDT reply actions
No Thanks
I’ll take my chances with Free. He’s 20 pounds heavier and more than one year younger. I believe the franchise would not touch trade this with a ten foot pole. They know better than anyone what is Free’s potential, and all the signs are they like what they see. It sounds like the usual mainstream media hysteria that Free is probably a matador who will get Romo killed, so they need to unload him like he’s radioactive waste.
Keep the first rounder and use it for something productive next year.
No Thank You
I’m not a big fan of giving up a #1again and a starting player especially not knowing where our pick will end up being hopefully last of the first round
Does anyone really want to give up Free for a guy...
that balloons up 40 lbs during the season?
http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=32320
I don’t remember him doing well enough against us or anyone else to warrant a 1st rounder, much less a 1st and a player that did a decent job against Jared Allen.
Rabid and luvin' it
He gave up...
3 QB hits and 3 QB pressures to Ware.
Ware didn’t have a Sack until week 5 at KC. So you’re saying all of those other LT’s are worth a 1st round pick and Free too? Once Spencer got going and teams were no longer able to give the LT’s help on Ware, then the sacks started coming again.
Look at Penn’s stats from last year and then tell me he’s worth a 1st and a good player. He’s mid pack overall. He doesn’t give up a huge amount of sacks, but he gives up a lot of hits and pressures. Heck, Flozell graded out better overall than Penn did, albeit mainly due to his run blocking. Free graded out better than both of them, albeit on the RT side.
Rabid and luvin' it
by lonewolfz28 on Jul 31, 2010 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
stupid f'n stupid
Lombardi garggles balls
thats so f’n stupid idk what to say
and a 1st rd pick PLUS Free
wtf is wrong with this guy
does he blow Donald Pig Penn?
Lombardi's also an admitted Eagles ran
rooted for them, worked in their front office at one time.
This looks like the kind of concern troll trade an Eagles fan would propose.
No. absolutely not.
First, giving up another 1st is a terrible idea. We will need to make over the whole line, giving up a high draft pick likely in the 20s (where guards and centers are usually available) makes that a lot harder.
Penn is pretty good, but hes definitely somewhat of an unknown. Not that different from Free imo. At the worst, Free seems to be a capable starting right tackle. While he probably will never be an elite LT, I think he could be a pretty good one.
Pardon my french, but
Are you ****ing kidding me??? WE give up OUR 1st Rounder to DOWNGRADE at LT? STFU Lombardi, you are such an idiot. Why in the world Donald Penn is regarded as a “blue chip” LT is beyond me. I wouldn’t even trade Free for Penn and THEIR 1st round pick! Well, maybe I would, since it’ll be a top 10 pick (partly because their LT IS OVERRATED).
Gimme a break. I hope Doug Free just goes out and demolishes people this year, just to shut up all the haters who apparently don’t watch him play.
Free is already our best OL in my opinion. He was great last year and unless he suddenly regresses by a significant amount, there’s no reason to think that he won’t be a very good LT for years to come. I am no a Penn fan by any stretch and I personally think it’s ridiculous to think that he is somehow worth a 1st Rounder MORE than Free. Just simply ridiculous.
He's Not Smoking Anything
Penn is an undrafted, pretty good but not great 27-year old tackle. Free played extremely well last year at right tackle, which is not his natural position. And he’s a year younger. Contrary to the Cowboys-hating hysteria, Free played fine in the playoff game against the Vikings. The problems were with Colombo who was eaten alive by Ray Edwards, Witten who whiffed on Jared Allen on a key sack, and Kozier, who was often overmatched by Kevin Williams. That was confirmed by people who actually watched the game tape.
No way in hell Dallas gives up Free and a first rounder for Penn. It would be utterly stupid.
I've said that b-4
Looking at some of that game replayed, most of the problems Allen caused with Free in the lineup was not directly his fault. At least on one sack J Witten was lined up over Allen and he just blew him up and Free didn’t pinch over in time to stop the sack, do not know if that was his fault or not anyway, it was easy to blame Free for the problems in that game after Flo went down but really not all on him, I like Free as our starting LT until he proves otherwise and as of now in camp he looks good.
by carolinacowboy on Jul 31, 2010 8:00 AM CDT up reply actions
WE give up OUR 1st Rounder to DOWNGRADE at LT? I wouldn’t even trade Free for Penn and THEIR 1st round pick! Well, maybe I would, since it’ll be a top 10 pick (partly because their LT IS OVERRATED).
I agree Free and a 1st rounder for Penn is an idiotic deal but what he said is just as idiotic. Penn > Free any day of the week.
Disagreed
Free is replacing Flozell, right? Why? Because Flozell had become a liability with a big contract.
Now, Penn gave up nearly as many QB pressures (Penn 32-Adams 35) and more QB hits (Penn 9- Adams 7) than Flozell. Flozell did give up more sacks (8 vs 5). But, Penn was letting his QB take contact nearly as often overall as Flozell. Also, Penn’s run blocking isn’t rated nearly as highly as Flozell’s.
So, if Flozell is a liability and gets cut in favor of Free, why the heck would we want to bring in someone that was almost as bad as Flozell was? And for just as big of a contract?
If the team feels Free is a better option than Flozell at this point, then why would they bring in someone that grades out worse than Flozell overall and pay them more?
Jerry and Stephen seem to agree with me. They had plenty of opportunity to make a deal for Penn…and they passed.
Rabid and luvin' it
by lonewolfz28 on Jul 31, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Last season’s Bucs team was dismal. Good players can tend to have bad years on horrible teams. Go and check out his 08 stats. Even 07, when he took over the starting job, he was good.
Maybe We've Underestimated Penn
But are you really that confident Free is less than Penn? The best qualified people to judge Free think he will be fine. Maybe the Dallas staff (Jerry, Stephen, Tom C, Hudson, et al) are wrong and Free will be much less than Penn. It’s happened before. But on what does anyone else base their opinion of Free? All we have is six games at RT, where he played very well, and one game at LT against one of the best pass rushers in the conference, where he didn’t do badly, despite the exaggeration of the media.
Gee, maybe Penn was part of the problem.
Heck, go back and check out Flozell’s stats for ‘07 and ’08 stats. He wasn’t too bad either. It’s a “what have you done for me lately” league.
Last season Penn ballooned up to over 360lbs…during the season. He also didn’t have a very good season performance-wise. The weight gain and performance weren’t injury related as far as I can tell from what’s been posted on the net.
Now, why should a team dump a promising young player and shell out a huge contract to a guy that can’t be trusted to maintain his weight and level of play?
Joe Thomas of Cleveland blows your theory out of the water. Teams don’t get much more dismal than the Browns were last year. Yet, Joe Thomas still only gave up 3 sacks, 5 hits and 7 pressures. Now HE would be worth a good player, a 1st rounder and a large contract. Penn…not so much. Seattle was pretty dismal too, yet Sean Locklear only gave up 1 sack, 9 hits and 16 pressures in 10 games. There are several more examples, but you get the point.
Rabid and luvin' it
by lonewolfz28 on Jul 31, 2010 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Plus what would happen to a guy like Penn
having to play against D linemen from the NFC east 6 times (+1 if you count playoff since there are generally multiple teams from this division that make the playoffs) a season.
When I think of the NFC south I really don’t think of great lines or pass rushers and don’t even mention the overrated Peppers.
NFC east = Ware, Cole, (Osi,Tuck and 3 other guys rotating in), Orakpo
Woodson is a Hall of Famer!!!
I was not arguing whether you guys should trade for him or not. It was about this…
WE give up OUR 1st Rounder to DOWNGRADE at LT? I wouldn’t even trade Free for Penn and THEIR 1st round pick! Well, maybe I would, since it’ll be a top 10 pick (partly because their LT IS OVERRATED
).
I agree with a bad team making you look worse however, large weight gain in a contract year isnt bright or something that increases your value..
Just out of curiosity, did you think those same thoughts when when we traded for Barron whose physical gifts are many and whose numbers are comparable to Flo and Penn though he to was coming from a dysfunctional team or did you think that the Cowboys traded for another bum.
Wow! not everyone can put a single sentence together like that LOL!
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
Your right, Free was our best lineman last year.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
If they are seriously considering this
that means they don’t think Free is near as good as most of us here would like to believe. Do I think it’s a good idea? No. But this wouldn’t be catastrophic on a Roy Williams trade level.
Is anything that catastrophic?
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
How was that catastrophic for the Cowboys?
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
It Was Beneficial for the Cowboys
(obviously)
But in the range of how one-sided a trade can get, it can get much, much worse than what we gave for Roy Williams.
I wasn't following that close back then, but wasn't the Galloway trade much worse
than the Roy Williams trade? Yeah, Hershel Walker wasn’t definately worse and how about the Ricky Williams draft day trade for the Saints.
I was limiting it to Cowboys trades, so I did not consider the Ricky trade
As for Galloway, Dallas gave up more but Galloway got hurt badly so there was an excuse. Roy has just sucked, and was never worth what was given up for him in the first place.
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
You just dont like Roy. Hurt or not, fewer games and less production and 2 #1s. Roy still with a chance to produce.
Its not even close.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
How many chances is Roy going to be given to produce before you drop the guy?
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
When you have enough better WRs than him. Austin is better, thats it.
Crayton produced a little better but thats in the slot. On the outside he is less of a threat. Hurd is what he, is and that a STer.
Ogletree is green as grass. I think it would be in his and ours best interest to follow Austins learning/resonsibility curve.
Dez, though immensely talented, is a rookie. You absolutely dont fly blind at the WR position. Its actually in Dez’s (and ours) that he has Roy there. Roy limits the pressure from the fans and from coaches force feeding him too much playbook. Roy should start off with the #2 CB on him allowing Dez the 3rd option. This will give Dez a little less attention and gain some confidence early on. (I dont believe it will be long before Dez gets more attention)
Remember, when teams get enough film on him they will find his weaknesses and make him adjust. He will have some bumps along the learnig curve.
Too many of you guys have allowed Roy to become personal and it clouds your judgement. Please dont bore me with more money and draft picks talk. Thats a done deal. Its about talent and being able to play. The only arguement we could have is whether PC is better. I dont think he is line up outside the numbers.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
No money and draft picks, ok, how about crappy route running, manos de piedra, balls bouncing off his facemask, and the fact that he is a veteran wide receiver, allegedly a 'bad man'
and he still does not have any rapport whatsoever with this team’s franchise quarterback?
What is your connection to UT? Alumnus? spouse of an alumnus?
Lifetime Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
LSU baby!
He is still the 2nd best WR on this team.
For the sake of arguement Ill agree with what you just wrote but the next in line is worse.
Rapport goes both ways. I went back and watched an earlier Cowboy on NFL network and Romo missed him a lot. I concede that 70-75 was on Roy, but Romo didnt have his number either.
For the record, Austin Dez and Ogletree are my guys. When the lights go on for the last 2, its bye bye Roy.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
We seem like the only 2 working today or at least blogging.
Thats okay because I like reading your posts.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
penn signed an extension.
with the bucs,no point debating this bad idea.
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
get Jerry to trade some magic beans for him
by AustonianAggie on Aug 1, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
If the Boys trade a first RD pick for Donald Penn
That ought to tell you how stupid they’re.
As a head coach?
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Aug 2, 2010 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll give you the main reason this would not make sense.
Whatever happens with Free, you KNOW that he can play right tackle for sure, and you know that he can be a starter in this league at right tackle.
So you would be trading a first rounder and a starter for a left tackle?
No way.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.
AFB
That is an excellent point. If Rafael has thought us anything it’s that 1st round picks are drafted to be starter from day 1.
That would mean we would be trading 2 future starts for 1. I don’t thinks so who the H*** came up with this goofy idea anyway. Would you like a side of ‘snake oil’ with that Penn said the con man.
J(cubed) is only allowed 1 dumb deal every 10 years, he’s met his quota with RW, we should be good from another 7+ years unless Steven finally take over.
Woodson is a Hall of Famer!!!
Yep
Jason Peters was gotten for a 1st, a 4th, and a conditional pick, and he had been an all pro.
I would love to see Penn’s metrics.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.
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