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Around SBN: Veterans Share Their Favorite Sports Memories

Throw It Back! Raiders 17, Cowboys 9

The Cowboys went through two weeks of training camp, squeezing 21 sessions into San Antonio's Alamodome, before playing the Bengals Sunday Night.  After an injury-clotted debut, the team had to turn around and face the Oakland Raiders four days later, in a week where they relocated their home base to Dallas -- temporarily -- and where they had no full-contact practices.

Tonight, they faced a Raiders team playing its first pre-season game.  These ingredients suggested a sloppy, erratic affair in the offing.  Fans know how sloppy Thanksgiving Day games can be on short weeks, even when the teams are in the middle of a season.  Now, make the teams' legs heavy and their practice schedules light.  

It was indeed an affair to forget, as both teams' defenses overran the offenses.  At half-time, neither team had broken 100 yards of total offense.  

Jon Kitna lead an early 3rd quarter field goal drive and Stephen McGee's unit added three more, but the 3rd teammers let Kyle Boller rally for two late scores.  Fourth string QB Matt Nichols saw a pass bounce off Manny Johnson's hands into a Raiders' hands in the final minute.  The pick was returned for a touchdown to produce the final score. 

Star-divide

Notes

-- Special teams were the MVP tonight.  David Buehler knocked his kickoffs for touchbacks.  He put all his field goals down the center.   The coverage teams were exceptional.  Mat McBriar kept Dallas in control of the game when he sent a punt from his end zone to the Oakland 32.  A Raiders penalty meant that Dallas punted from its two and put the Raiders on their 22.

-- "Number 77 has reported eligible."  Dallas used Pat McQuistan as the short-yardage tight end tonight.  The position is that depleted by injury.

-- ILB Leon Williams is playing himself into a job, in Dallas or somewhere else.  He'll likely be the 5th ILB, after the starters and Jason Williams and Sean Lee.  He's proven thus far that he deserved a long look.  He keeps making plays.  He did drop a sure interception at the Cowboys five which would have sealed the game at the 2:32 mark.

-- The mini-cloud follows him:  Kevin Ogletree had the dropsies tonight.  A bobble of a well-thrown Jon Kitna pass at the Raiders' five ended the Cowboys' promising 2nd-half opening drive.  He did make some strong plays on special teams, but he needs more consistency.

-- Backup S Michael Hamlin left midway through the 3rd quarter with a neck strain.  

-- Junior Siavii knows two NTs were selected with late-round picks this off-season.  He continues to show better hand usage, meeting Jason Hatcher at Raiders QB Jason Campbell.  Siavii also made some strong plays against the run, all against Oakland's starters.

-- Tonight ends three weeks of practices and games exclusively on artificial turf.  I'm sure the players will welcome the cooler California temperatures and the green, green grass of Oxnard.

-- The new Big Cat?  NT Josh Brent chased a Rock Cartwright screen down 20 yards past the line of scrimmage.  He's active and he's eager.  He needs more work on his 

--  Buehler Watch:  Four kickoffs, four touchbacks.  Three field goal attempts, three made, with a long from 42 yards.  Every kick was dead center.

-- Sloppy?  Yes.  But these guys have not scrimmaged in pads since last Thursday.  Let's see how things progress in San Diego.  

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Damn you're fast

Raf, you’re the Teddy Williams of blogging.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 12, 2010 11:12 PM CDT reply actions  

the game was over by halftime

I got bored watching the last 30 minutes of game time. The Raiders 3rd teammers whipped ours. So they got a win.

by Rafael Vela on Aug 12, 2010 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

the new big cat?.....

he needs more work on his……..? heheheheehh

woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol

by demonbane on Aug 13, 2010 1:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

whiskers?

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 13, 2010 6:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

I just came in and checked the stats

someone explain to me how romo got sacked three times…

or did i not read that right? B/c that MUST be a typo.

by THEjarhead on Aug 12, 2010 11:13 PM CDT reply actions  

nope

all on the first drive

by Dub_TC on Aug 12, 2010 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah

“what the crap?” is right.

by THEjarhead on Aug 12, 2010 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

well

they get a day off tomorrow, by the way they’re flying tomorrow.

then they have two practices saturday. rock on cowboys.

camp cupcake huh?

by THEjarhead on Aug 12, 2010 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

They need some pad work

I think tonight was the first contact they’ve had since the the Sunday game and before that you have to go back one week.

It’s wierd. They practiced two weeks straight, then had two games in five days, with no contact drills in that span, then start the 2nd half of camp Saturday.

What matters about tonight’s game is that it’s done.

by Rafael Vela on Aug 13, 2010 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

your last sentence

is the best, and should have lead your thread.

it was wierd week for them.

by THEjarhead on Aug 13, 2010 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

they can get some real work in

60-70 degree days, grass fields.

and a “big crowd” in Oxnard is 3000 folks.

by Rafael Vela on Aug 13, 2010 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'll be there Sat and Sun

with bells on. Go Cowboys. Welcome to CA.

by Eagles suck on Aug 13, 2010 2:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

They certainly appeared worn down.

There wasn’t even the normal activity and energy from the sideline.

overall, just looked like a preseason game on a Thursday.

Of course, now well hear all about how the offense is facing serious issues.

One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth

by Brandon Worley on Aug 13, 2010 12:10 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

if this team is dragging ass

why more two a days?

"Talent is God-given; be humble. Fame is man-given; be grateful. Conceit is self-given; be careful." John Wooden

by 082288 on Aug 13, 2010 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

for sharpness

they won’t wear pads in both of those workouts.

by Rafael Vela on Aug 13, 2010 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Heck, by JJT

This morning’s headlines about the OL.

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Aug 13, 2010 7:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

yep.

They were all over the place with how “anemic” the offense is looking and how their “sources” are all expressing real concern and so on…

by Chris in Va on Aug 13, 2010 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately the sources are each other.

Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-

by squidlo97 on Aug 13, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah...

….but we’ve still got 3 preseason games left!!

Wish we could it already.

Larry Allen benched 700 pounds. That is Leonard Davis times two.

by Tim Wilson on Aug 13, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Two of the sacks were

Romo just falling down and taking a sack because no one was open. One sack was genuine. Lamarr Houston is no joke and that Raiders d-line is decent.

I think if it were a real game, we might have seen Romo try some Romo magic.

One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth

by Brandon Worley on Aug 12, 2010 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll have to watch and review it to see.

Houston is a DT, so it could be Bigg, Gurode…I know Columbo was beat on one play pretty badly.

One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth

by Brandon Worley on Aug 12, 2010 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

boys had a wierd week

hard to get too upset seeing as how it looks like everyone walked out healthy.

they get back to work on saturday in oxnard. ill be there. we’ll see how they look against sandy eggo. glad to see the kicker doing well.

not scoring TDs isnt sweating me much yet, but romo getting hit bothers me.

by THEjarhead on Aug 12, 2010 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth

by Brandon Worley on Aug 12, 2010 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

as long as no one got added to the injury list tonight

I am fine

"Talent is God-given; be humble. Fame is man-given; be grateful. Conceit is self-given; be careful." John Wooden

by 082288 on Aug 13, 2010 12:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Mike Hamlin got dinged up

but his injury didn’t appear serious. OTOH, you never know until you get official word.

by Rafael Vela on Aug 13, 2010 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Strained neck and possible concussion

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4670643/mike-hamlin-suffers-concussion-strained-neck

Hamlin’s injury was announced as a strained neck. He said he also suffered a concussion.

“I don’t really remember the play, but I don’t think it’s that big of a deal,” Hamlin said. “Neck’s a little stiff. [I have a] headache, but it’s going away.”

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Aug 13, 2010 1:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Houston playing DE

Raiders are actually lining him up at DE with Seymour and someone else, Kelly maybe?, starting inside.

by BlueStarDude on Aug 13, 2010 5:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah Houston....

is going to be good. I don’t think anyone who watched him play at TX is surprised by that.

He’s got a relentless motor.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Aug 13, 2010 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought it was Bigg

Seen the footage on ESPN and it looked like it was Biggs guy

by carolinacowboy on Aug 13, 2010 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Two were "coverage sacks"

Also Dallas did not game plan for the Raiders, if they had, Romo may have rolled out of the pocket or they would have kept an extra blocker in to help with pressure from Houston. In a REAL game, it would have never happened. Don’t lose any sleep over it.

by BishopWest on Aug 13, 2010 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's what I thought too

One especially looked like Romo held the ball a second or two too long and got sacked when he could have thrown it out of the back of the endzone.

But the worst looking QB move of the night went to Kitna, for attempting to turn his back to the field to scramble. Oh, did I mention he did this at his own 1 yd line? (slaps forehead) He was promptly dumped for a near safety by a DL who had been pushed past the pocket.
Not the move of a wily old vet QB.

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 4:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

After re-watchiing

I’d say you were right. There wasn’t a ton of time, but there was plenty of time.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 14, 2010 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

No major injuries = win for the Boys

now if only my friends who are Raiders fans realize it’s only a preseason game and stop bugging me!

by Dub_TC on Aug 12, 2010 11:13 PM CDT reply actions  

The Raiders may jump...

out of the NFL basement this year. Tonight’s game showed us more about Oakland than it did about our Boys, but I’m happy we got out of there without any major injuries.

One happy surprise is how well we are tackling. I am really impressed. Can’t wait for SD! I’m hoping for a handful of sacks for our first team D.

Pirates Vs. Ninjas? Psh......Cowboys, baby.

by oneinsider on Aug 12, 2010 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

This.

I could see them pulling off a win or two in the AFC that will leave fans and coaches of the opposing team scratching their heads for Eons.

If I had to put money on the cellar dweller for the AFC it’d be Jacksonville.

"Biggest mistake in DFW history?" - Bigger mistake in LSB history.
"Back in Irish's day you had to kill a man before you were taken seriously in polite society." - Aquaman56 06/25/10

by Samuel_L_Bronkowitz on Aug 13, 2010 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

pure sarcasm

they’re the NFL team most likely to be re-located to some place like L.A. They never should have been put in Jacksonville. Market is too small.

by Rafael Vela on Aug 13, 2010 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

California Mountain Lions?

by thruthicknthin on Aug 13, 2010 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Granolas

In honor of all the fruits, nuts and flakes…

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 6:11 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

haha

I’m sure as soon as someone builds a lucrative stadium in LA, it will be home to the LA Raiders

by AustonianAggie on Aug 13, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

The market isn't the main problem here

The problem is that everyone loves college football more than the pros. That is why I will never understand why the Jags didn’t draft Tebow, who is a legend around here.

by Billito on Aug 13, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ya

no matter who’s been in Houston, SA’s always been a huge Cowboys’ town!

Mavs MoneyBall!!
Dallas Stars Examiner!!
poster formerly known as hinduplaya

by mayur.patel on Aug 13, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I dont believe they can. They are all Cowboy fans. I dont see them changing.

Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-

by squidlo97 on Aug 13, 2010 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

San Antonio can support an NFL team the way Jacksonville does

It’s a large city, when defined legally, but the metro is small. The finances would always be anemic

by AustonianAggie on Aug 13, 2010 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just think many of those guys would never quit cheering for the Cowboys.

Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-

by squidlo97 on Aug 13, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree
The problem is that everyone loves college football more than the pros

I enjoy them both a lot but I think you are wrong. The NFL is king. College football is a very handsome prince.

by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 13, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think he's talking about that area.

And I agree. The Gators and the Georgia Bulldogs are treated like royalty in the Jacksonville area. If you go there, you see WAY more people wearing UGA and UF gear than you do the Jaguars. College football is king there.

One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth

by Brandon Worley on Aug 13, 2010 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I can imagine

I’m from upstate NY, college football isn’t very good here. The closest we have is Syracuse, not on the level of top D1 programs.

by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 13, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

The NFL is a luxury box league

where’s the big local business which can fill two layers of luxury boxes at 2-300K a year a pop?

Not to mention every game I see in Jacksonville has some large chunk of the upper deck covered in tarp, to lower the attendance and prevent blackouts.

How many other NFL stadiums have this problem, year in and year out?

by Rafael Vela on Aug 13, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

in those 3 cases

St Louis was fine when they were competitive; Jacksonville has been competitive in the playoffs recently, and still the fan base won’t turn out.

by AustonianAggie on Aug 13, 2010 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

True, true

Which is why I say that drafting tebow would have saved this team. People here are starting to follow the broncos just to get a glimpse of him.

I moved back here in 2005 as the Jags were wrapping up a 12-4 season and playoff bid and the popular consensus was “the jags suck”. As the cowboys got whipped by the skins to miss out on the playoffs, I thought “do you guys even know what you have here?”

by Billito on Aug 13, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Doesn't SD also suffer from poor attendence ?

I think if it’s not JAX, it will be SD that goes to LA.

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 4:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

they suffer TV black out the most often. Problem is their ownership is a conglomeration of Jacksonville based investors

by AustonianAggie on Aug 13, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Time for a radical plan

Put ’em in Ft. Worth. They share Jerryworld the way the Giants and Jets share a stadium.

Float that with JJ and see if the dollar signs don’t light his eyeballs up.

Come after my cigars, and we will then be discussing my second amendment rights

by Tom Ryle on Aug 13, 2010 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

What was up

That last Cowboys drive they put some first and second teamers back in on defense

by carolinacowboy on Aug 13, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I liked what McGee showed in the HOF game

Let’s not forget, its his second season and his first was mostly a redshirt year. I think he’s coming around well. We need him game ready (hopefully) a year from now when he’s the #2.

by Eagles suck on Aug 13, 2010 2:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

He can't just not make mistakes this year, he needs to make plays, he clearly is not

If he doesn’t show drastic improvement, we need to draft a new qb next year.

by just4fun on Aug 13, 2010 2:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Drafting another QB next year

would be a good choice regardless of what McGee does.

RW is the opposite of WR. Coincidence? I think not.

by aussie_cowboy on Aug 13, 2010 2:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

It would be nice...

If McGee had some WR’s who could actually get open to throw to. Then we might just see whtat he could do.

by TheCowboyFan on Aug 13, 2010 7:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Also if his count in his head wasn't

“One thousand one OH CRAP WHERE DID THAT GUY COME FROM?”

Come after my cigars, and we will then be discussing my second amendment rights

by Tom Ryle on Aug 13, 2010 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Some Positives

Brian McCann, #37, had a decent game. Like the hustle from Josh Brent, and of course Buhler kicked well all night but our punter was the star of the night for me but I wish he didn’t have to play at all. Josh Brent is disruptive and he hustles.

Hands of stone were in full view tonight though on offense.

Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.

by 1Bullseye on Aug 13, 2010 12:13 AM CDT reply actions  

+1

McCann looked good. Better than Wall.

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 4:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Funniest line heard during the game:

Babe was "ribbing’ Spagnola for looking like he was proposing to Romo during a sideline interview, by kneeling down on one knee in front of a seated Romo, Spag said afterward, “Something was wet down there.”

by BishopWest on Aug 13, 2010 12:20 AM CDT reply actions  

Seriously, what did Spagnola add to the broadcast?

All of his additions just felt pointless. Like he was saying something just to say something.

Well, the interviews were okay, as okay as you can expect an in game interview to be I guess, but everything before that was useless.

by Arson55 on Aug 13, 2010 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ah, you missed the moment of levity -- or just didn't mention it

Spagnola, telling the audience on Dallas’ last drive that Terrell Hudgins was on the field, but, “can’t give them anything because he has a hamstring problem.”

Seconds later, Hudgins caught a 40 yard fade.

by Rafael Vela on Aug 13, 2010 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah thaat was funny,,,id admit !

woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol

by demonbane on Aug 13, 2010 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I learned something today

Someone with an IQ from zero to 25 is referred to as an “idiot”
Someone with an IQ from 26 to 50 is called an “imbecile”
And someone with an IQ from 51 to 75 is a “moron”

Hmmmm…..now I’m trying to figure out exactly what I should call dear ’ole Spagnola?

by BishopWest on Aug 13, 2010 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's like a mascot for the media

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 4:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I’m sure that wasn’t personal Dunk :)

by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 13, 2010 6:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hey!! Yo mama!

Or as we said when I was growing up. “Tu abuela”.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

sad

Pretty sad that anyone is aspiring to be the next “Goose.”

by eliason on Aug 13, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

just be thankful ur not in the SF bay area

i got stuck listening to raiders announcers on local TV

just at the start of the 2nd quarter, the cowboys seemed like they were pulling starters. but the raiders were keeping theirs in. then we see the boys barely get their starters back in on 2nd down. couple plays later on that 4th and 1 the announcers said “oh the cowboys put their starters back in on that 4th and 1 … they didnt want to give it up”

it was so painful because not only were the starters in for at least 2 plays. so much bias on top of bad broadcasting i just couldnt watch and listen to it.

best line i heard was when he insulted felix jones by calling him julius jones.

by fuji1232 on Aug 13, 2010 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know

I had to listen to them on my broadcast last night and it was terrible

by carolinacowboy on Aug 13, 2010 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

One of the announcers

didn’t even know they were changing the position of the umpire. When your job is announcing football games you’d think you would have some grasp of what is going on around the NFL.

by TheAnsah on Aug 13, 2010 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

The announcers were

Tom Flores and Jim Plunkett, both ex-Raiders. Yes it was painful listening to them.

I was standing in the park wondering why frisbees got bigger as they got closer, then it hit me.

by CounterEMF on Aug 13, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Raiders broadcasting team is quite possibly the worst in history...

Every year I have to listen to those idiots when we play the Raiders (I live in SoCal), and I can’t believe how homerific, lazy, and downright incompetent that they are. When Campbell managed to complete a few passes against the second-string D you would have thought that it was John Elway on “The Drive”. They are just terrible.

by DannyWhite on Aug 13, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know

Sonny Jurgensen and the local Skins crew is horrible. They just aren’t really good at the commenting business. The upside is that they hate Danny and are super critical of the team, so my best Skins lines come from those guys.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I listened to the Iggles tonight

Holy mother of garbage, every single play, no matter how meaningless was “hard fought” or “you really had to admire the way he fell out forward for an extra yard”, and Vick was “running around making plays like he used to.” Then BAM he throws an INT, and silence. The Jags back ups were were torching the backup secondary and there was nary a word about it. But Riley Cooper makes an over the shoulder grab, and he’s the next Harold Carmichael. Bleech!

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 5:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Redskins announcers

I was stuck hearing Theisman and boy is he garbage. I am conditioned that when I hear Theisman – my ears bleed.

by fuji1232 on Aug 14, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

could be worse

could have to listen to them and be stuck with their fans up here in nor cal :)

The funniest sound to us is when we hear the Raiders score. The announcers love to say … “Touchdown RAAAAAAIIIIDERS”. Cuz its always in garbage time or against other loser teams like the Iggles :)

by fuji1232 on Aug 14, 2010 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not to upset by it

most the guys that lost the game won’t be here in September.

by nicholas.rodriguez on Aug 13, 2010 12:33 AM CDT reply actions  

and Kyle Boller FINISHED the game. He started for baltimore more for a year or so.

If you are the raiders, you know what Boller is, The only reason to play the second string qb against fourth – sixth stringers is to try and win the game. The game that doesn’t count.

This is so you can get your fans behind the team earlier. As reported by some of the Raiders broadcast, they are using this to try and convince thier fans the team isn’t going to suck.

However, they will definitely suck, every team that plays them will look at this film and see how to play them early. Because the raiders called plays to beat the cowboys. They will not watch for the cowboys because they played vanilla and worked on plays to see if a particular player can execute them, not because the particular play can beat the raiders.

by just4fun on Aug 13, 2010 1:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Convincing the fans? Seems to have worked:

Raiders’ 17-9 exhibition-opening defeat of Dallas a positive step – The Sacramento Bee
Raiders young defensive line shines in win over Cowboys – Thoughts from the Dark Side
Raiders’ defense shines in opening win – San Luis Obispo Tribune

by One.Cool.Customer on Aug 13, 2010 2:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep, totally ignoring the fact that a one time nfl starter was doing the scoring

against street free agents. And the starter scored zilch and looked awful (i actually thought Campbell would have looked better). Coach Cable even said “there is plenty to be excited about.” Ouch, reality is gonna hurt come september

by just4fun on Aug 13, 2010 2:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

and Boller went 12-21, that's nearly 50% passing against third/fourth stringers

scoring only one touch down in one half of football, ouch. and they think that is outstanding

by just4fun on Aug 13, 2010 3:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

in Gambling on PreSeason games, I’ve always read that to win, you need to identify which coach needs a win more, because he will play starting quality players longer

by AustonianAggie on Aug 13, 2010 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

If you are gambling on preseason games

seek professional help

Come after my cigars, and we will then be discussing my second amendment rights

by Tom Ryle on Aug 13, 2010 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

so true..

only the bookies win that bet lol…

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 13, 2010 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

A bunch of random thoughts:

I thought that was pretty strong play from Siavii. If he keeps that up, he’ll definitely keep his place on the team.

I don’t know why, but I really want Hudgins to hang on and somehow grab a spot on this team.

And, man, that was an ugly game from Ogletree tonight

by Arson55 on Aug 13, 2010 12:34 AM CDT reply actions  

Terrell "Huggy Bear" Hudgins

Good nickname?

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 5:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

none better

Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK

by HudBaby on Aug 14, 2010 5:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

How about...

HudgeBaby?

LOL

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Aug 14, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think I'm glad I missed this one

Buehler 3 for 3 “down the center” and no major injuries are about the only things that I was hoping for and glad to hear.

by scottmaui on Aug 13, 2010 12:41 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Yes to both.

Haven’t seen any evidence that kicking field goals has affected Buehler’s kickoffs, either.

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Aug 13, 2010 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

6-for-7

With his only miss being 49 yards.

That is absolutely acceptable kicker play. That is exactly what we want from our kicker. He’s been performing great thus far.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 13, 2010 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep..

And thursday his stuff got syle points. That 49 yarder was sick down the middle.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Aug 13, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ogletree

Every year there is a cut or two that surprises us, and I think he could be one this year.

by I_miss_Switzer on Aug 13, 2010 1:10 AM CDT reply actions  

he better see the light soon. Heard nate newton say he's been slacking in practice.

And reading his own press clippings, thinking he’ll make the team based on his play last year.

by just4fun on Aug 13, 2010 1:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jerry

intimated in the offseason that Ogletree needed a kick up the hindside

by I_miss_Switzer on Aug 13, 2010 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Now if that happens...

What will you use for a tag line…. “Bye-Ogletree”?

by Chris in Va on Aug 13, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe

but I won’t rename myself like “Bi-Dawk” did…

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

But if you did

There wouldn’t be anything wrong with that.

by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 13, 2010 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

No there wouldn't although

the green latex suit is a crime against nature…

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Haha, you REALLY need to watch It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia

to truly understand the Green Suit. That is actually the character from the show in it. He wants to take down the Philly Phanatic and become the next big mascot. It’s a great show and…they come Cowboy colored as well…

http://www.superfansuits.com/colors/navy.html

by JLMax09 on Aug 13, 2010 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh I know about it

but now it’s become the JimmyK Suit for me.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's too bad

Sherman’s style (player’s coach) works perfectly with a veteran group and with a self-motivated guy like Dez. But it just won’t work with a guy like Ogletree who needs a fire lit under him. I think Ogletree could be a probowler if he had a Todd-Haley type coach. That’s why I’m afraid to cut him. I bet he will be better with another team.

by JimmyJohnson on Aug 13, 2010 6:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

a non-self-starter

may be good for a while, may show flashes of brilliance, but once they “arrive” they are done. See Albert Stompworth.

Tree better get his arse in gear or he’s gonna get cut.

Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK

by HudBaby on Aug 14, 2010 4:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ogletree's bad attitude

This story seemed to come out of nowhere. At least , it’s surprising to me. I was under the impression that Ogletree was a nose to the grindstone kid who was willing to do whatever it took to get on the field. Now all of the sudden he’s acting like he’s entitled to a spot? Either I’ve been duped, or I’m being duped now. Either way I am a dupe :(

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 5:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

I just want the guy to be awesome

he passes the eyeball test and played well when called on as an undrafted rookie.

I think we all just expect a ton from our undrafted FAs. Rightfully so, as our scouting department has found some absolute diamonds in the rough. I hope Tree is cut from the same mold.

Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK

by HudBaby on Aug 14, 2010 6:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's what I thought too.

Especially after the story this Spring where Austin was taking him under his wing:

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/columns/story?columnist=macmahon_tim&id=5251010

It just doesn’t add up.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Aug 14, 2010 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I felt the same as well. The only thing I could come up with is they need this guy badly to be ready.

Do they want to cut Crayton?! Do they thing Dez’s ankle could linger?! Is this just something they do to 2nd year players to get them to a higher level? Do they want to cut Roy?!
I think the drops are just a guy thinking to much.

Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-

by squidlo97 on Aug 14, 2010 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

It definitely sounds like Dallas might have to let go of people that will be quickly scooped up.

Guys like Leon Williams and Junior Siavii (assuming Brent wins that position battle like I am hoping he does) probably won’t have to wait long to get a shot with another team if they can’t make it here.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Cowboyfan729 on Aug 13, 2010 1:40 AM CDT reply actions  

one points miss there

Iam definitly beginning with praying for Romo"s life before every single game this season, on the right side of our OL, our pass protection is really poor, I now Houston was solid player in Longhorns jersey, but we need to protect Tony better….if we will lose him, our season is over….think about that…

before there was law, there were the Cowboys!!!

by orli on Aug 13, 2010 5:10 AM CDT reply actions  

my take

Raiders broadcast was horrific.
Raiders front line Defense looked awesome against our starters.
Winning ia always good but in preseason it`s essential to evaluate players, not sure how playing Lamar Houston in the 4th quarter is essential in scouting his depth behind him or Kyle Boller the number 2 QB going head to head against our number 4 QB Nichols and out dueling him really gives the team a better look at the number 3 guy?
Instant replay is starting right where it left off, TD by Miller( not Zach or Zack) should have been overturned despite the announcers saying “there`s no way they can overturn that call”.
Ogletree runs the wrong way everytime he catches the ball…when he catches the ball.
Manny did n`t overtake the tree when he let a pass sail through his hands to be a pick 6.
new TE looked pretty good.
Only 2 plays I noticed from Leon Williams was on one play either he was trying to tackle the guys shadow or looking for a contact lens and then the other where he dropped the ball which would have been the game winning int, with the team wanting to improve turnovers this yr and you drop a gimme that even Roy Williams would have managed to snare…I think, that can`t help your battle in the fight for a roster spot.
Our O-line was dismal can pass or run block not last night, looked very similar to the Vikings playoff game for our starters.
Kitna is every bit as good a backup as Bad Johnson was…not a typo.

by ziggy19 on Aug 13, 2010 5:41 AM CDT reply actions  

Good summary

Although, I’ve noticed Leon making good plays on defense and ST. But you’re right about the team wanting to improve in the takeaway dept might put more weight on that INT he dropped. He’s still on of the bubble boys.

I didn’t get the TD call either, the guy only got one foot in. Unless they said he had another body part in, that’s equal to two feet, I don’t know.

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 5:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think it was that ankle/shin ruling...

that bit us or someone else in a game I was watching last season. Basically, if anything else on the leg touches after the bottom of the foot touches… they count it as “down”. I want to say it involved Miles Austin, but I’m not 100%.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Aug 14, 2010 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I did not know that, thanks

I always remember Madden’s explanation of what body parts count the same as 2 feet, but he didn’t include the ankle/shin.

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Only worry about the game

was the fact that the Raiders DBs were able to shut our receivers down and get coverage sacks so often vs. the 1st unit. If Roy Williams can’t get open vs. the Raiders #2 CB, then we are going to have problems keeping him at #2 receiver.

by JimmyJohnson on Aug 13, 2010 5:52 AM CDT reply actions  

As much as I like to knock on Roy...

I think Raf is right… everyone looked pretty tired.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Aug 13, 2010 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

The more I see Roy Williams, the more I think he'll never be "Romo friendly"....

a good play is knocking down an INT. A good play is being where he’s supposed to be so that INT is not even a consideration. And Romo simply does not look his way, Im sure he doesn’t trust him. Miles on the other hand is money, that catch on the 1st qtr over his head is a beauty.

Also would like to see a better performance by the Oline….both starters and backups looked really sloppy. Our chances stand on those two areas IMO.

Defense and ST look solid, specially the D.

by ManTab on Aug 13, 2010 6:01 AM CDT reply actions  

give Roy credit for not giving up even after he ran the wrong depth of route

Asomugha (sp) is a dang good CB. Roy earned a few points in my book by making sure the pick didn’t happen.

Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK

by HudBaby on Aug 14, 2010 5:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

grab your lucky charms?

maybe the ’Boys will have bounces go their way this year.
no more balls bouncing off shoes. ya know, stuff like that

by fuji1232 on Aug 14, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

40 yd catch

but i must have dozed off and missed it.

by ziggy19 on Aug 13, 2010 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

My biggist concern is Columbo

Allowing 2 sacks in the same drive! I hope he isn’t hurt. Yeah, I know Its pre-season, and Romo wasn’t showing his stuff, but still, Columbo nedds to do his job.

by sdcowboyfan on Aug 13, 2010 7:44 AM CDT reply actions  

That was really more...

coverage sack than anything.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Aug 13, 2010 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

What Romo said about the sacks was somethng along the lines of

1 x coverage sack / “I should have thrown it away”
1 x Felix was the hot read and didn’t have the internal clock right
1 x the receivers ran into each other

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Considering he wouldn't talk to the press afterwards

I think he’d agree with you.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

linemen

Never talk to the press. Never.

One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth

by Brandon Worley on Aug 13, 2010 9:01 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

roughed the kicker

went way up field on one play when the rec turned back in and had a huge cushion. only bad things I noticed, he looks like a football player with his uniform and helmet on.

by ziggy19 on Aug 13, 2010 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Endurance

My Son played with Lamar in HS and follows him regularly. Lamar has had endurance problems, they were probably testing him.

by Kidslam on Aug 13, 2010 8:17 AM CDT reply actions  

3rd week of camp and second game in 4 days had disaster written all over it.

I hope Ogletrees problem is having too much on his plate and not thinking he makes it off of last year. I expected him to struggle some after hearing in minicamps they wanted him to learn all 3 WRs positions. If your a fan of his, be more worried if they quit talking about him. If they need to light a fire under his ass then demote him. Of course with some of the negative comments coming out in the press maybe they are.

Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-

by squidlo97 on Aug 13, 2010 10:51 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

I like Olgetree but I'm pulling for Hudgins over him now

I was optimistic about Olgetree but he’s not as good as he was last year, it seems to me, and thats a drag

by AustonianAggie on Aug 13, 2010 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hope you're right
I hope Ogletrees problem is having too much on his plate and not thinking he makes it off of last year. I expected him to struggle some after hearing in minicamps they wanted him to learn all 3 WRs positions

I jumped on his bandwagon early last year and I’ve been disappointed with some of the comments I’ve heard this year about his attitude. I think we should be careful about thinking we know what’s going through his head. Few (if any) of us have ever met the guy or been close at all. What we interpret as laziness or cockiness could just be lack of comfort in what they’re asking him to do. I would really like this guy to stick.

by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 13, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Meanwhile...

Jesse Holley continues to make plays.

One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth

by Brandon Worley on Aug 13, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hear you

But I just can’t get too excited about a guy who got on the roster the way he did. The Kurt Warner story has already happened this century, I can’t see that much upside in a guy who walked in off the street. Then again, it’s worked out pretty well for that Daughtery guy.

by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 13, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

No matter where he came from or how he made the team.

He’s making plays. That’s all that really matters.

One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth

by Brandon Worley on Aug 13, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's his upside that I wonder about

He’ll be a #5 or #6 at best. I’m just saying I would put a lot of emphasis on upside but I wouldn’t totally discount a guy who’s making plays. I’m impressed too.

by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 13, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would agree with this

Upside is weighted a little higher when you are talking about projects. And both those guys are projects. Not saying Holley won’t beat out the Tree, but if he does I assume Ogletree has reached Kansas City (Hes gone about as fer as he can go….)

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

I can't get too excited about Holley

He’s been a solid player, but I have yet to see one play from him that makes me think “This is a guy that could be on the field with Austin and Dez.”

My complaint about Hurd is that he’s a professional 4th or 5th string wide reciever. He’s good, he’s solid, but he lacks the game to step up and be a starter. My complaint about Holly is that his cieling seems to be as Hurd’s backup.

I want guys like a 2006 Miles Austin who show flashes they can become starters but are missing parts of the puzzle rather than guys like Holley and Hurd who seem to have maxed out their potential as backups.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 13, 2010 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

It can't be said better than that.

Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-

by squidlo97 on Aug 13, 2010 1:50 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Regarding Hurd

I tend toward what Babe said last night during the game. You need guys like Hurd that do what they do on your team. No, he’s not starter material. He’ll never beat out Miles or Dez. But he knows all three positions, he goes all out all the time, and he’s glue on ST.

You need guys like that, too.

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Aug 13, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1 I like Hurd but I think Holley can fill his STs role and Ogletree can fill his WR spot.

Its early but I think thats how it will shake out.

Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-

by squidlo97 on Aug 13, 2010 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

My Opinion

Is that you need ONE guy like that. One guy who’se a backup and knows all 3 positions. Injuries to the WR corps are inevitable.

We have that one guy, it’s Crayton. And I think it’s inarguable that Crayton is a better player than Hurd.

In my preferred situation, the WR corps would be

1) STARTER
2) STARTER
3) STARTER
4) VETERAN BACKUP
5) PROSPECT
6) PROSPECT

by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 13, 2010 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

I just don’t think there’s anyway that Crayton is let go. It’s obvious he’s just too important and has too much chemistry with Romo.

One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth

by Brandon Worley on Aug 13, 2010 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree but who do you have penciled in at 5 and 6

I got Ogletree at 5 and I think I will go with Holley at 6.
Hurd is a great STer but I think Holley can be soon.

Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-

by squidlo97 on Aug 13, 2010 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

The way Tree was playing versus OAK

I think I’d stick with Hurd over him right now

by BishopWest on Aug 13, 2010 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would go 5 WRs

and keep our defensive prospects.

Too many guys on defense who may have very bright futures.

Bryan McCann, Danny McCray, Barry Church, Cletis Gordon, Josh Brent, Sean Lissimore, Marcus Dixon, Junior Siavii, Pat Watkins, Jamar Wall, Steve Octavian, Stephen Hodge

All these guys, these 12 guys are fighting for 4 roster spots. There’s only 4 roster spots for all those guys. When you look at those names, how many do you think have a possibility of starting in this league someday for an NFL team? Only 4? I would like to keep more of those names for sure.

If we eliminate Hurd we get one more.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 13, 2010 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK

by HudBaby on Aug 14, 2010 5:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

0 catches for 0 yards

I realize WRs low on totem pole have to do STs I just don’t think Holley and Ogletree are in direct competition. Holly trying for Hurds ST role. He has some upside as a WR but it’s a long way from getting there. Hurd and Ogletree are vying for that 4th or 5th WR role. Hudgins might be in the mix but the 2 routes I saw him run didn’t impress me. No change of speed or wiggle/burst. I know, that’s a B.S assessment. I will concentrate on him more going forward.
If that is the case then most top 3 CBs will eat him alive. Don’t blast me. I will watch him more. I just don’t know if he could contribute this year.(Hudgins)

Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-

by squidlo97 on Aug 13, 2010 11:42 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

What plays has Holley made?

I have noticed he has made some plays on ST (but he’s also had a couple penalties), but as far as WR, has he done anything?

I’ve got Holley behind Ogletree, Hurd, and now Hudgins. Things being equal, I’d take Hudgins over Holley for potential upside.

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 5:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

People are often waaay too quick to chalk things up to a character flaw. I agree, though, that he hasn’t followed up on his promising debut last season.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

The armchair psychologist thing that has infected professonal sports recently makes me want to puke.

and the worst thing about it is that when people throw out the armchair psychologist crap it’s usually to the exclusion of any kind of technical or statistical analysis of what players can actually do on the field.

Case-in-point, Roy Williams. How many times have you heard this crap about how it’s all mental. He just needs Dez there to push him, etc. Look at Roy Williams’ career. He’s only have one 1,000+ yard season and his average is around 780 yards. That’s just who he is. He’s a 700ish yard reciever, he’s a low end WR2 in this league. That’s all he is. It’s not mental, that’s the talent level of this reciever.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 13, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I not sure what your problem is. Even those of us who defend him think exactly that.

I think he is a solid number 2. He needs to cut his drops and Romo needs to hit him with better passes. He was wide open in the end zone against Cincy and Romo missed him.

Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-

by squidlo97 on Aug 13, 2010 12:05 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think so too

give Romo a bit of a pocket and we’re all celebrating the new red zone prowess…

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I realize that as well but then guys tell you your making excuses.

Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-

by squidlo97 on Aug 13, 2010 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

I believe the enthusiasm for ogletree isn't based in objective analysis.

Ogletree was a 7th round pick. It was always a longshot that he would become a starting caliber NFL WR (and please spare me the comments that I hate low picks or that Miles Austin was an UDFA, it’s not relevant. I don’t hate low picks and I know that low picks pan out … it’s just a low probability)

It’s borderline delusional the way Cowboy’s fans think it’s likely that Ogletree will be a pro-bowl player on the basis of TC and 12 targets or whatever he had last year.

I’m from Virginia and I love the Cowboys so I’d like nothing more than to see Ogletree turn into the next Rod Smith but that was always unlikely.

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Aug 13, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmmm

It’s unlikely that ANY player will turn out to be a future star. So golly, what an easy call for you.

It’s not delusional at all for fans to think that Ogletree might become something special. It may be an illusion, in that we saw something and it tricked the eye, but no one is seeing things that aren’t there. What Tree supporters liked was the high percentage of balls targeted that he caught and his quickness and speed. Apparently the coaches and the QB liked something he showed as well since he got some very critical 3rd down calls and playoff receptions.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Correct
So golly, what an easy call for you.

It is an easy call for me. That’s what I like to stick to: easy, defensible calls. It leads to being right a high percentage of the time.

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Aug 13, 2010 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

And especially good

When you follow up your point about what a long shot a guy is with a comment like “spare me the comments that I hate low picks or that Miles Austin was an UDFA”. It’s almost like you made a point that was so easy to prove wrong that you thought you would just eliminate the most obvious evidence.

For every long shot, low pick, or UDFA, I’ll show you a bunch of high draft pick WR’s that suck. That position is a crap shoot and guys like Austin and maybe Ogletree come along quite frequently and surprise everybody

by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 13, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

No. I addressed the objections that I know are (i) incorrect and (ii) inevitable

I know they’re inevitable because I’ve had this discussion previously. There’s a long tedious discussion about 20 comments down in this thread.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2010/3/6/1334001/cowboys-draft-10-mock-3

For every long shot, low pick, or UDFA, I’ll show you a bunch of high draft pick WR’s that suck. That position is a crap shoot and guys like Austin and maybe Ogletree come along quite frequently and surprise everybody

I’m not sure what your point is here. Are you taking the extreme position that WRs drafted in the 7th round or acquired as UDFAs are just as likely to become starting WRs as WRs drafted in the rounds 1 & 2?

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Aug 13, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I went back and re-read my post

It’s pretty clear what my point was. Why did you feel the urge to rephrase into something I didn’t say? I suggest you read a little slower, it will sink in better.

by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 13, 2010 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

For every long shot, low pick, or UDFA, I’ll show you a bunch of high draft pick WR’s that suck.

Your point seems to be that teams are just as likely to draft a starting NFL WR in the 7th round as they are in the 1st round. It seems preposterous to me that anyone would believe that but people believe in UFO’s … so it’s possible that’s what you believe. That’s why I wanted to probe a little deeper and see if that’s what you really meant.

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Aug 13, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Try again

You’re slightly warmer, but you seem to want to make it more difficult than it is. You’re the smartest guy here, I can tell.

Here’s a hint grasshopper, when you see phrases like “I’ll show you a ‘bunch’”, it is typically not a statistical analysis. It’s probably roughly as scientific as your proclamation which included no statistics. That being the case, there’s really no reason to do any of the elementary calculations you included in your p.s.

by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 13, 2010 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

If OCC doesn't do a post on this by Sunday

I’m going to write something. THIS INJUSTICE SHALL NOT STAND

by NYHorn on Aug 13, 2010 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

agreed

missing his posts : (

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 13, 2010 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

what do you mean

figure out the success % for 1st round WR picks and compare it to the success % of 7th round WR picks?

I started to put together the data. Since this is the second time I’ve had this dicussion I might just finish collecting it so everyone can look at it for themselves.

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Aug 13, 2010 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

How about I explain myself instead.

Let’s say I ask you the following question. Is there a greater than 50% probability that if you pick an American male at random that he will be taller than 7 feet tall? I assume you would answer no, right? We can also make that into a sentence. It’s unlikely that the height of a randomly selected American male will be greater than 7 feet. That’s a description of a population. One wouldn’t say ‘that’s easily disproven … Shaq is taller than 7 feet.’ We’re describing a population, not making a blanket statement that there are no American males taller than 7 feet.

So when I say, ‘it’s unlikely that a 7th round pick will become an NFL starter’ it’s the same as saying ‘It’s unlikely that the height of a randomly selected American male will be greater than 7 feet.’ An annecdotal exception (i.e. Miles Austin, an UDFA who became a starter) doesn’t disprove the description of the population (i.e. 7th round picks are unlikely to become starters).

p.s. I still don’t understand what you mean. You seem to be saying there’s no difference between high draft picks and low draft picks.

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Aug 13, 2010 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

This works when you are talking about a group

it has no value at all when talking about individuals. The heads or tail flip or roll of dice is a random occurence each time you do it, but over a large number of flips, it conforms to the statistic. Just because it raises a player’s chances – in the aggregate – of success if they are drafted higher, it means nothing about judging an individual case.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok, let me dissect this.

it has no value at all when talking about individuals.

"it" is a pronoun. If you’re going to use pronouns, antecedents are your friend

The heads or tail flip or roll of dice is a random occurence each time you do it, but over a large number of flips, it conforms to the statistic.

I think you’re making a ‘long-run’ argument. Allow me to rephrase.

The process of tossing a coin can be repeated over and over again, independently and under the same conditions. The chance of getting heads is 50%: in the long run, heads will turn up about 50% of the time. However, the theory does not tell you what any particular toss of the coin will be.

Just because it raises a player’s chances – in the aggregate – of success if they are drafted higher, it means nothing about judging an individual case.

You then make an interesting logical leap, and say that because the long run theory of chance doesn’t say much about any particular toss of the coin, that statistics about a population don’t say much about any particular player.

I’ll make two comments. When I bet on the outcome of a coin flip, I use what I know about the long run probabilities to decide the correct wager. What do you do?

I’ve also never seen a statistics textbook say that the ‘long-run’ theory means you can’t use population statistics to determine probabilities for individuals. Did you just make that up

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Aug 13, 2010 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I will cease now with you because you're a condescending a**

enjoy running your silliness with anyone else dumb enough to accommodate you.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are you calling me dumb again?

I was thinking the same thing but couldn’t muster up the maturity to just ignore poindexter. It’s kind of like I can’t walk past the ferret cage without poking the little buggers with a stick. They’re cute as hell to watch and they do it everytime.

by StillHateTheGiants on Aug 13, 2010 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Had a friend who used to do that with

a really volatile boss. I always asked the standard question… Man, WTF???

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’m condescending? Because you made up your own statistical rule/law and I pointed that out?

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Aug 13, 2010 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

my head hurts : (

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 13, 2010 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

no ,

i just read above conversation!!!
lol

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 13, 2010 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

p.s.

my point is simple. 7th round draft picks and UDFA WRs have a low probability of becoming starting WR’s. Do you think that’s easy to prove wrong?

It’s almost like you made a point that was so easy to prove wrong

I’ll tell you what you need to do if you want to prove that wrong. You need to
-identify every WR drafted in the 7th round or picked up as a UDFA
-determine how many players out of that set became NFL starters
-NFL Starters / Total Players Drafted or Signed = success %

I’m guessing the success % for 7th round picks is less than 5% (i.e. 1 in 20).

Then you can do the same for WRs drafted in the 1st round. The success % for 1st round picks is closer to 50% (i.e. 1 in 2).

You understand that the fact that there is one successful UDFA WR (i.e. Miles Austin) doesn’t prove that UDFA WRs in general are likely to become NFL starters?

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Aug 13, 2010 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

People on here every year have "Pet cats". These are long shots that we adopt in camp and pull like the dickens for.

Ogletree was a pet cat of many on here being undrafted and a positional that was considered weak last year. He worked his way to the practice squad, then 53 man roster, then active on game day(STs). Then he gets into a few key situations and has a play called for him in an Eagles game. Garrett continues to guiv ehim spot duty and he makes a few plays.
These are absolutely objective analysis to have some enthusiasim for this guy. He took his freshman exams and aced them. He isnt a Doctor but he made the first step.

The only person on here that mentioned Pro bowl(that I recall) is you. I think he could be a great compliment to Austin and Dez. In other words and #3. What IS delusional is thinking that based on 3 routes run that he would suddenly blossom into a guy that know the whole route tree and all 3 WR positions. Give him time and I think a good number 3 guy should emerge.
I realize that longshots can be a bit crazy for other fans but here in Dallas we have Ball, Free, Romo, Austen, Ratliff, Phillips, and maybe Free(4th rounder). We have every reason to believe in our scouting department for late round URFA pickups.

Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-

by squidlo97 on Aug 13, 2010 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry my grammar and spelling is worse than normal. Got a little excited.

Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-

by squidlo97 on Aug 13, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wasn't making that up
I think Ogletree could be a probowler if he had a Todd-Haley type coach.
-JimmyJohnson

it’s a little crazy how heated people about a really bland comment. Most 7th round picks don’t become NFL starters.

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Aug 13, 2010 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

They dont, but they are funner(is that a word) to pull for.

I took it more as “he would thrive under a hardass coach” than thinking he was a Dez type of talent. However, I was wrong and somebody did use probowler. My bad.

Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-

by squidlo97 on Aug 13, 2010 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I WAS AT THE GAME

 DROVE UP FROM HOUSTON. I PLANNED TO LOOK AT THE OL & DB’S. THE OL WAS HORRIBLE. THEY LOOKED LAZY & UN-MOTIVATED. I FIGURED THE COACHING WOULD HAVE THIS GROUP LOOKING BETTER BY NOW. I KNOW IT’S ONLY PRE-SEASON BUT THAT WAS BAD. HELL, THEY ARE LUCKY ROMO DIDN’T GET HURT WORSE. I WON’T BE SURPRISED IF WE TRY TO CLAIM A FEW OL’S ONCE TEAMS START MAKING CUTS. IT’S THE INTERIOR PART OF THE LINE THAT IS THE PROBLEM. THE D LOOKED GREAT UNTIL THE END. WE NEED A NEW OC AND 2 NEW OG’S SOON. I’M SURE THIS WILL BE ADDRESSED IN NEXT YEARS DRAFT – ALONG WITH ANOTHER DE & CB. THE LB’S ARE SET FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

by tyler2 on Aug 13, 2010 11:48 AM CDT reply actions  

We've been sure they'd address the O-line in the draft for 4 years now

and they keep trying to experiment with 6th and 7th rounders who can’t get the job done.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 13, 2010 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cap's Lock....

press it.

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Aug 13, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

What???

I think I’ve lost my hearing.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

unreadable

Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK

by HudBaby on Aug 14, 2010 5:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

FG'S Dead Center?

Did Beuhler really kick them all down the middle? I wasn’t able to see the game in AZ. From what I read on the live blog was that one brushed or just snuck in the uprights.

"Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk"

by sprewelllatrell on Aug 13, 2010 11:59 AM CDT reply actions  

no they all sunk through from what I saw

The 49 yarder was dead center

AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.

Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.

by Iron Fist on Aug 13, 2010 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Awesome!

Glad to hear that. I’ll be able to see the game once nfl network plays it.

"Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk"

by sprewelllatrell on Aug 13, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was at the game

All kicks dead on, tons of touchbacks. Heck, he was even voted the MVP of the game(this was before the last FG and pick six though)

If the Cowboys lose to McNabb in Week 1, I am drinking myself into a coma.

by Rat-Pack on Aug 14, 2010 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, that was a stinker last night.

I know it’s preseason, but the O looked like crap.

by DIRE WOLF on Aug 13, 2010 12:04 PM CDT reply actions  

o-line play was terrible,

but i live in hope that its better when the real games start..
it better or romos headed for concussion city..
on a brighter note the defense looked excellent in the first half.
the lb depth looks like our strongest by position imo..

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 13, 2010 12:19 PM CDT reply actions  

I know, but how sad would this season be if

Dallas’ scrimping on o-line costs them a shot in the playoffs?

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Me too

This team has just about everything except that dominating line

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

our D will be devastating..imo

the ravens won it all with a great D and their offense was nowhere near as potent as ours..
so im hopeful … : )

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 13, 2010 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

our interior D has a long way to go

to put us in that Raven D’s category

Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK

by HudBaby on Aug 14, 2010 5:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

i think we have a special group..

they are young players and appear to totally understand the coaches plan..
my own opinion but the signs are there that they can be special..

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 14, 2010 6:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

no doubt about it

That Ravens D is one of the all-time greats. I think we don’t have the same level of play from our D line to approach all-time greatness. We will be one of the best in the league, no doubt. But, I think we are a player or two short to be in that Ravens category.

Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK

by HudBaby on Aug 14, 2010 6:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

let the games begin..

cant wait for the season to start…

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 14, 2010 6:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Rosters cuts became much easier last night

Alluding to my comments on the oline, everyone still think canning some of the starters is that far fetched?

Some of them are done, it’s time to accept it. Go to the waiver wires and bring in hungry guys and the others might improve. It’s sad that some of them are likable etc. but the reality is clear.

by Cwon1 on Aug 13, 2010 12:21 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't see any starters in danger of being cut

The TE situation has probably saved Cricket’s job, and other than him, who else?

They let Flo and Hamlin go already. That’s it, me thinks.

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 5:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

For better or worse...

I guess Bigg and Ratliff are safe as well. Bright, Costa, Tepper and McQuistan haven’t really done enough to replace either of them. Holland has been hurt and likely wouldn’t be able to push either of them out anyways.

Young and Brewster haven’t impressed enough to endanger Colombo. Barron hasn’t exactly set the world on fire either. He may be able to work his way up to surpassing Colombo a ways down the road, but not to begin this season.

Hatcher hasn’t exactly seized the opportunity to supplant Spears either.

I really don’t see any other spots that should be in jeopardy.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Aug 14, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yup.

Should have been Gurode. Probably because I was picturing JRat schooling him in camp when I was typing that.LOL

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Aug 14, 2010 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

cant see them cutting a starter ..

after the season yes..
can see us drafting o-line with first 2 picks and looking at free agents too..

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 13, 2010 12:24 PM CDT reply actions  

+1

None of the backups have impressed me so much that I think we’d be better off if we got rid of a starter. I’m in no hurry to see McQ or Holland promoted.

by RickT on Aug 13, 2010 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately, true

as bad as they played, it could be even worse

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't want to promote Holland

But I would like to see if he’s a capable backup.

McQ is a dead man walking. No way he makes the team this year.

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 5:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Not even as a TE. LOL

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Aug 14, 2010 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hope he didn't get his hopes up for that #3 TE spot

McQ is one of Tuna’s incomplete projects. He’s like a garage with one wall nicely painted. If they had the guts to finally give up and admit defeat on Procter, I imagine McQ is just a camp body at this point.

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

They would need to get comp for Kosier or Davis.....

and perhaps outsider should be added this year. The apathy needs to be broken in the group.

They are long LBs and WRs perhaps a guard can be found in exchange. I wouldn’t pay the price for Mankins but there are other up and coming I’m sure.

by Cwon1 on Aug 16, 2010 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Kitna is going to be the #2 QB

please give him a lot of playing time in the next 3 preseason games. He looked rusty at best. Two times he went out the back of the pocket and caused himself to be sacked. One of them almost cost a safety. High school QBs know that’s a no no. If Romo goes down Dallas is in deep sh!t IMO.

by DIRE WOLF on Aug 13, 2010 12:34 PM CDT reply actions  

if romo goes down,

we would be in so much sh!t ,we would make BP look good..

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 13, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

He just needs to brush up a little....

He completed more passes than Romo last night, give the guy a break ;)

The rookie from Fresno actually looked pretty good too, until he through that pick 6, but not sure it was his fault.

by hakrjak on Aug 13, 2010 1:28 PM CDT reply actions  

didnt watch the game live

but catching the replay now.. all things considered, whatever. lets move on and get healthy

"I’m ready to go here, all right? It’s like R. Kelly at recess."
"You will come back stronger then ever. Like Lance Armstrong. But with two balls."

-Ari Gold

by Young Wiz on Aug 13, 2010 2:45 PM CDT reply actions  

Ok, so after watching that game one more time.

I am even more convinced that outside of judging some fringe players, there is absolutely nothing you can extrapolate out to how this team will do this season based on the performances against Oakland.

There is barely anything even remotely useful to be gained by breaking that game down. What’s frustrating is I’m having to ignore the articles talking about the futility of the offense, the disaster our offensive line will be and the comments on why Jason Garrett is a failure as an O.C.

I do think there are some things to takeway, however. It’s painfully obvious that without Montrae Holland and Alex Barron, we have ZERO depth on the offensive line. Raf has been preaching this from day one, but that’s the reality in front of us as well.

Honestly, right now, the only negative with this team that really stands out is that offensive line depth. Can Barron and/or Holland (if healthy) provide that depth if we do have an issue with the starting line? That’s the big question for the season. I know people are concerned about Kitna, but the reality is no matter who the backup is we aren’t doing jack squat without Romo.

Defense is great. Special teams are money. David Buehler looks solid. For now.

One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth

by Brandon Worley on Aug 13, 2010 3:13 PM CDT reply actions  

Nice game summary

I realkly think this defense is going to be top-shelf this season

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll agree with that

What is that old saying about defense wins something?

This group looked special at the end of last season, and so far I see improved depth in the front seven. Still waiting to see AOA and Lee out there, and Ball hasn’t been tested yet this pre-season, but you have to feel good about this defense right now.

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

What I got out of the game

1) Our front 7 depth is among the best in the league, if every single starter in the front-7 went down we could still be competitive. I don’t know if there are any other teams that could say that.

2) Our recievers aren’t THAT great. They got shut down at times by the Raiders’ secondary. Now the plays were vanilla to be sure, but when it’s our WR corps execution vs. their secondary’s execution, we came up short.

3) This team goes as far as the offensive line takes them. I think it’s clear where the weak link in Dallas is. This will be the theme all year.

4) Buehler is going to be the man. His 42 yard field goal would have been good from 62. He’s 5-for-6 with his only miss being a long 49 yarder. This is exactly what you’re looking for from a kicker, this is absolutely good. Add the leg strength on kickoffs and you have a franchise kicker.

5) Bryan McCann is making the transition from doing the things that are successful at the college level to doing the things that are successful at the pro level. Jamar Wall is not.

6) The reported sophmore slump for Ogletree is real. The lights are on but nobody’s home.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 13, 2010 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed on all points....except #2.

There is no change in this team in regards to the receivers. Don’t know why suddenly we’re down on them, other than the Ogletree slump. Now…I put Witten in with the receivers, because he’s essentially the #2 guy. That’s just fact.

But, in two series against one of the better secondaries in the NFL (yes, the Raiders do have some talent) I’m not sure I can extrapolate that conclusion that our receivers are lacking. Especially without Dez Bryant. It’s also obvious that within 6 games, Roy Williams will be the fourth receiving option on this team. Perhaps fifth.

One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth

by Brandon Worley on Aug 13, 2010 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not Lacking

I don’t mean to say they’re lacking. But I do think there’s a belief out there, an excitement out there, that our recieving corps is so formidible that all 31 secondaries in the NFL should just not even step out of the locker room.

I think this recieving corps is extraordinarily good. But it’s not the second comming of the great Patriots teams that some people think it may be.

This is not a team that can go shotgun 3 wides and pass the ball on every down and expect success.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 13, 2010 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ahh...

My apologies then.

I’m agreed. Above average…yes. Best ever? No way. Let’s see what Dez does first.

One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth

by Brandon Worley on Aug 13, 2010 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ahh...

My apologies then.

I’m agreed. Above average…yes. Bet ever? No way. Let’s see what Dez does first.

One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth

by Brandon Worley on Aug 13, 2010 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Problem with Witten

last night he stayed in and blocked on almost every play. Hopefully in the regular season Marty B will be handling that so Witten can be out there as a receiver that forces bracket coverage

If the Cowboys lose to McNabb in Week 1, I am drinking myself into a coma.

by Rat-Pack on Aug 14, 2010 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good Observation

But I don’t read too much into play calling pre-season. The plays I’m seeing called don’t look like the Jason G offense and the plays we saw last preseason didn’t look like the offense we saw in the regular season.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 14, 2010 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

the lb depth ,

could make this an awesome defense…..

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 13, 2010 4:24 PM CDT reply actions  

Off the subject.

In an interview before the game Jerry said he thinks the league will go to 18 regular season games and 2 preseason games very soon. It can’t be too soon IMO.

by DIRE WOLF on Aug 13, 2010 4:26 PM CDT reply actions  

I heard that, too.

Was it right after that interview that Babe said something like, “The preseason season’s to see who gets hurt.”

I think that plan makes the most sense.

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Aug 13, 2010 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good, you cleared that up.

I didn’t hear all of what Babe was saying, just the punch line. I’m sure he must have attributed it to Brad.

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Aug 13, 2010 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

if so dire..

what size rosters would that make?..

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 13, 2010 4:27 PM CDT reply actions  

He didn't say,

but I think they would have to carry more players. A lot needs to be worked out and the union would have to ok it in the new contract.

by DIRE WOLF on Aug 13, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

the union would be after more money...

can see lots of haggling if this was to be proposed..

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 13, 2010 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jerry's point was everything stays the same.

Revenue’s the same, pay’s the same since players are paid by the year. The players don’t make any more for playing preseason games, and they’d still be playing 20 games.

Sounds like their annual salary would be paid out in 18 checks instead of 16.

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Aug 13, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, they are paid something,

but compared to their regular checks it’s not much.

by DIRE WOLF on Aug 13, 2010 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok, I'll defer on that.

But I still wouldn’t think they should be that much against getting rid of a couple of those type of games.

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Aug 13, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

The guys that don't make the team have to receive

some compensation. Like I said it’s not much compared to what they make in the regular season. The owners make a killing on preseason games. The tickets, the parking and the beer cost the same and the players don’t make sh!t.

by DIRE WOLF on Aug 13, 2010 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

No

The way Jerry said it, you go into camp at the same time, you train two weeks, you play two preseason games, then the season starts with 18 games.

It’s like if preseason game 3 and 4 become regular season games 1 and 2.

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Aug 13, 2010 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the bye is a byproduct of scheduling

32 teams, 16 games, over 17 weeks. TV wants 17 weeks of football, goes with out saying, but the Union I recon wouldn’t budge from 16 games.

If they were intentionally giving teams a bye week for rest, they would never give a week 3 bye week, which Dallas has bad in the past

by AustonianAggie on Aug 13, 2010 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Another interesting thing here you said.

32 teams, 16 games, over 17 weeks. TV wants 17 weeks of football,

If that goes to 18 games in 19 weeks, then the TV contract would be more, so there definitely would be more money involved. Not the “same money” Jerry suggested.

Union would definitely be wanting to negotiate that.

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Aug 13, 2010 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've heard that owners discuessed

and additional bye-week as well.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

"discuessed" probably more accurate

combination of discussing and guessing whether Players’ Union would go for it

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Aug 13, 2010 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think i may have read somewhere

That vets get a small paycheck, and I don’t think guys who don’t make the team (practice squad or game team) don’t receive any compensation. I can’t remember where I read that here recently, so take it with a grain of salt.

You aint been around in awhile, maybe you haven't heard........I don't shine shoes no more

by markdamack on Aug 13, 2010 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

This may be perverse, but I want to see more of this Nichols kid.

He comes from a passing offense in college, and he looks more comfortable than McGhee. That was a pretty pass to 14.

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Aug 13, 2010 4:48 PM CDT reply actions  

thats the owners point of view..

dont think the union would feel that way..
we are talking 2 full games for starters not 2 games at present where they only play a couple of series..
so the wear and tear on their bodies would be greater..

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 13, 2010 4:49 PM CDT reply actions  

True

But they would have two weeks less training camp. That’s a pretty big chip.

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Aug 13, 2010 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not so much that

The current schedule is from an older paradigm, when players held other jobs during the offseason and needed a long training camp to get into “football shape”.

Now it’s a year round sport, with intensive training, OTAs, minicamps, etc. after a month’s break after SuperBowl.

They don’t need 6 weeks of training camp to be ready to play meaningful games.

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Aug 13, 2010 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

ok angus,

does that give them enough time to assess players in camp?.

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 13, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

they'd expand the rosters, I can almost gaurantee it

so bottom of the roster guys would be auditioned mid year more regularly

by AustonianAggie on Aug 13, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Aug 13, 2010 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's a debatable issue.

And one I haven’t really thought through, but I’d start off saying, yeah, you could.

You’ve been working with many of these guys all spring in your offseason program, Rosters swell up to 80 so that you can get through training camp and have enough bodies to run drills and not wear everybody out with reps. Few players beyond your top 60-65 really have a chance anyway. I think they have an idea who that is going in.

You’d have less game evaluation plays for those players down the line, like Nichols, for sure.

"We'll see." --Bill Parcells

by Uncle Angus on Aug 13, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thats a good point.

They could do like a…rookie and bubble players camp for that two weeks. Make it voluntary for vets. I mean, that could end up leading to players getting upset about being considered a “bubble player” ..I can see the headlines on profootballtalk.com "Player X doesnt think they should be at “bubble player” camp"

I don’t know, there’s too much wrong with that I think. It’s going to be hard to do regardless.

You aint been around in awhile, maybe you haven't heard........I don't shine shoes no more

by markdamack on Aug 13, 2010 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't like Jerry's stance on this, either.

The whole “I’d rather lose them in a meaningful game than a preseason game” just doesn’t cut it for me. I don’t want to lose the players at all. At least, as I believe was mentioned above, they don’t play whole games.

You aint been around in awhile, maybe you haven't heard........I don't shine shoes no more

by markdamack on Aug 13, 2010 5:11 PM CDT reply actions  

sounds to me,

like jerry has thrown this idea out there to gauge reaction from fans-union and tv .

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 13, 2010 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

i thought ,

it was an idea to incorporate an expansion for 2 new teams..

Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Aug 13, 2010 5:22 PM CDT reply actions  

Absolutely

disappointing to hear of Ogletrees’ woes. I honestly thought he would be a difference maker, what’s more, I thought he already should’ve been a difference. May have missed on that, I guess. But, I’m absolutely stoked to hear of Buehlers’ night. I was a little worried after the HOF game. Wish I could’ve seen it.

by stargazer33 on Aug 13, 2010 7:31 PM CDT reply actions  

Yeah

if he’s got enough pride, maybe it’ll motivate him.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

i think there are ways to make a new schedule work

such as

  1. set a rookie pay scale based on draft selection… at a set amount so it doesn’t cripple a team for the next 10 years and would allow teams to carry more players
  1. set a final cutdown of the roster during the regular season maybe after the 2 preseason games and 3 regular season games
  1. give the money to the veterans that have proven they can play… better chance of not losing players in FA

i smell food burning but you get the idea..gotta go

by 0k on Aug 13, 2010 7:51 PM CDT reply actions  

It ain't done...

until the smoke detector goes off.

Well, that’s what my ex-wife told me anyways.

LOL

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Aug 13, 2010 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Guys fall for it every time

“Apple pie is supposed to be black?”

“Yes dear. Have some more ice cream”

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 13, 2010 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

eww

16 games is fine. Its perfect. Every game matters. It ends and starts at the perfect time. Please please no 18 game season. I dont want to be watching the superbowl in march!

Please i cant vent my frustration enough about 18 games and please dont get me started on international games.

Really?! Really?!

by thebigham on Aug 13, 2010 8:21 PM CDT reply actions  

I agree

The season is fine the way it is

And the preseason is a necessary evil in my opinion…

by CowboysFan4Life on Aug 13, 2010 11:46 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

thats why I cooked so it wouldn't taste like gravel

but back to the debate and it was cooked perfectly i might add…but I think the owners want more real games for TV time and selling seats in the stadiums..and i can’t blame the players one bit for not agreeing with it …the game is tough enough as it is

by 0k on Aug 13, 2010 9:15 PM CDT reply actions  

NFL network was talking about our "struggling" offense

They’ve had 4 freaking possesions in the preseason in in which they are not game planning for the other team. The Raiders clearly gameplanned a little more as they need to win their games now because they won’t win more then 7 in the regular season.
 
Columbo does worrie me though. I think I get Ozzie Newsome on the phone and ask about Gaither.

by houseofprime on Aug 13, 2010 9:15 PM CDT reply actions  

Columbo clearly got beat

On one sack.

The other two you can blame on coverage/Romo. But one of those sacks was Colombo getting beat around the edge the exact same way he got beat over and over again against the Vikings.

I don’t want to knee jerk, but I wouldn’t rule out seeing the Alex Baron show at right tackle this year. Colombo isn’t inspiring confidence that he’s making a come back.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 13, 2010 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

forget gaither...

Let’s go after an unhappy Logan Mankins and make Kosier the swing guy.

Our tackles are inconsistent, but the interior depth is even worse.

If the Cowboys lose to McNabb in Week 1, I am drinking myself into a coma.

by Rat-Pack on Aug 14, 2010 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

With you on Mankins but

I don’t agree on Kosier. He (along with Free) is one of our only 2 good starters. Bigg is finished, and Gurode and Colombo aren’t far behind. After 2 games, I’m beginning to think our o-line problem isn’t depth (though we may have the worst backups in the league), it’s that the starters on the right side aren’t very good any more.

by JimmyJohnson on Aug 14, 2010 7:25 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah Colombo underwhelmed me in this game as well

So while all the eyes have been on Free this off-season, I think it’s not that side at all.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 14, 2010 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Completely agree Jimmy

The tape from the Minnesotta game tells that exact story. The pre-season pass protection looks like it’s going that same direction.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 14, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm still thinking that Gurode

is one of the best two Centers in the NFC

by BishopWest on Aug 14, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe...

more than half the time.

But, there are enough other times where he isn’t that makes you scratch your head. He still tends to launch a couple shotgun snaps towards the rafters per season. He gets beat by speed more often than I’d like. There were a couple times where I saw him standing there while LB’s were going by him chasing Romo. One of the plays in Minn, it didn’t even look like he reacted. He just stood and watched as the guy went to his left and chased Romo down.

I know he made the Pro Bowl, but that tends to be a lagging indicator. Players get selected based more on reputation than skill a season or two after they deserve to be IMHO.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Aug 14, 2010 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guess his size cause him to get beat by speedy guys but it sure helps anchor the 3-4 NTs.

Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-

by squidlo97 on Aug 14, 2010 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

True

There’s always a trade off.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Aug 14, 2010 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree on Gurode being better than most centers (he's easily in the top 10 at the position)

Some fans are ready to kick him out the door, but I think he’s going to be extremely hard to replace. It’s his lack of consistency that drives people nuts, but most of the time he’s dominant in the middle. Plus it’s rare to have a center that big and strong who can pull and trap as well as Gurode. He’s also been extremely durable (don’t worry I’m throwing the salt over my shoulder while typing). When Fat Albert stomps on your face with his size whatever metal cleats, and you don’t miss a game, I won’t ever question your toughness or durability again.

His shotgun snaps were an adventure for awhile, but he improved that part of his game, and I can’t remember the last time he fired one high (or low). He’s shown that he’ll continue to work to improve his flaws. Some people say he’s overrated, but I feel like he’s under appreciated

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Too Much Pressure

I’m sorry, but I see way too much pressure and way too many sacks that come from the A gap between Gurode and Davis. Not only is Davis to blame, but Gurode is to blame as well.

I don’t think Gurode is the worst, but he’s not getting it done in pass protection and fails to pick up stunts too much, only Davis is worse than he is at picking up stunts — which doesn’t help considering they stand next to each other.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 14, 2010 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Could be a situation where an upgrade at RG becomes an upgrade to C, RG and RT.

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Same here.

Maurkice Pouncey would’ve been a nice consolation price.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Aug 14, 2010 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

18 game schedule..

I think the SB winner would be determined by which team had less injuries. I like the idea of a longer season but..the OL we have now would be spent by week 12.

If you make every game a life-and-death thing, you're going to have problems. You'll be dead a lot. ~Dean Smith

by Benthere on Aug 13, 2010 9:23 PM CDT reply actions  

Buehler and McBriar were the MVP's of that one

I thought McCann looked good, I’d put him in the lead for the 4th CB spot (or 5th if you still count Ball as the 4th).

Bowen, Hatcher, Butler, Leon Williams (oh, if he’d only held on to that INT, that would have been big) all had good solid games. I wish I could put Jason Williams in there, but he got sucked in on the huge screen play (at least that’s what it looked like to me), he and CuJo (who has looked the worst of all the LB’s) both looked like they lost contain on that screen pass.

Wall played better, but still got beaten for the TD pass.

Ogletree, WTF happen to this guy? He didn’t look right all night. He covered kicks well, but he also made a costly mistake by running that last kickoff out of the endzone instead of just taking the touchback. And he couldn’t catch a cold. Very un-Tree like. Next week, he needs to make a couple plays, because I like the way Hudgins looks right now. The guy supposedly has a bad hamstring and he’s gutting it out and hauling in a 40 yd bomb on top of that. More Huggybear next week.

OL depth is depressing. I guess we feel ok about the OT’s, but until Holland can show us whether or not he’s any good, the interior is uncovered. No one wants to step up, or they want to, but can’t because they stink. Either way, our only option might be Holland for swing guard.

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 4:38 AM CDT reply actions  

All of the above

Holland is it. And McCann reallly impressed me as well.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 14, 2010 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

McCann has more potential, but Gordon is a savy veteran

who would you rather have for the 4th CB spot?

2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it

by quincyyyyy on Aug 14, 2010 10:10 AM CDT reply actions  

4th CB is so tough

In this league, the 4th CB has to be ready to go. He has to be ready to go because starters go down all the time and 3-4 WR sets are used very frequently.

My bias is always towards potential, but at that spot you have to have a guy that inspires confidence as much as potential. That’s why McCann’s preseason is so important. Can he be a confidence inspiring player in the next 3 seasons or is he inconsistant?

by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 14, 2010 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is the right discussion

potential vs experience. I guess McCann has a shot if he keeps making plays like he did the other night.

FREE THE OGLETREE!!!

by dunkman on Aug 14, 2010 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

I want to see more of Gordon in game time.

I saw more of him on Special Teams than I did on defense before he got hurt.

Hopefully we can see more of both McCann and Gordon in the next three games without anymore injuries holding them back.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Aug 14, 2010 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

Gordon needs to get healthy and get back out there by the next game.

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right this second I'd take McCann

Gordon’s injury was a blow to his chances. From the reports of TC, Gordon sounded like the slight favorite to win the spot, but not good enough to feel comfortable yet. My impression of McCann is that he’s been the best player of the remaining CB’s. Wall is still struggling too much right now, hope he can improve, but he’s looking like a PS candidate. Teddy Williams has the rare gift of blazing speed and quickness to go with size (he’s listed at 6’3"), but he’s got some catching up to do (he might be under the radar enough to clear waivers and go to the PS also). Gordon wasn’t anything special, so any time he misses really works against him.

Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.

by APerfectStar on Aug 14, 2010 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

At this point...

I’d keep Teddy Williams over Jamar Wall. Not to say either one will make the 53-man, but I’d keep Williams with the way he’s been playing. I have a really good feeling about where he’s going be in his development at this time next season.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Aug 14, 2010 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’m watching the repay – with 6 minutes left Raiders have not scored – Curious how they get 17 points…

He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is

by WarWolf on Aug 15, 2010 5:27 PM CDT reply actions  

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