Cowboys Decisions On Defensive Backs A Tough Call
A couple of days ago a lively discussion ensued here on BTB over the safety position, specifically when my 53-man roster included six safeties and just four cornerbacks. This isn't the number of defensive backs the Cowboys have historically kept on the roster but sometimes certain players make such an impact in training camp and in the preseason they force teams to keep them. That certainly seems to be the case here.
The injury to Gerald Sensabaugh might have facilitated this particular numbers game but I have to believe that Danny McCray and Barry Church would have made the team even if Sensabaugh had remained healthy. They've just proven themselves to be too good on special teams to let go, while also showing ability at the safety position as well.
With the news that Mike Hamlin would be getting the start against Houston on Saturday I decided that I would take a closer look at the defensive backs -- particularly the safeties -- and how it looks like we're going to see the roster shaking out. Like the roster projection, this analysis is based upon reports from training camp and what I've seen in the games so far.
After the jump, I delve into the players and the scenarios surrounding the decisions the Cowboys will have to make over the next few weeks.
Brandon's projected to make the roster:
Cornerback (4) - Terence Newman, Mike Jenkins, Orlando Scandrick, Cletis Gordon
Safety (6) - Alan Ball, Gerald Sensabaugh, Mike Hamlin, Akwasi Owusu-Ansah, Barry Church, Danny McCray
Why only four cornerbacks?
I'm not the only one who is starting to feel like the Cowboys will roll with just just four cornerbacks. Based on what Alan Ball can provide as a corner if needed, and based upon the fact that the Cowboys have been practicing AOA at times as the slot corner, it appears as if the team is preparing itself for the possibility of having just four cornerbacks on the roster.
The Cowboys are going to have to decide whether a cornerback like Bryan McCann is more valuable than either Church or McCray, and whether they can afford to risk losing McCann to waivers while trying to slip him onto the practice squad. By all accounts, McCann has had a great camp, he's played well in games and it certainly appears as if he has the potential to develop into a good cornerback down the road.
It's a gamble no matter what route the Cowboys take. With the fringe defensive backs on the team it starts to come down to which players will have the greatest impact on the game, even if they aren't getting playing time with the defense. At this point, McCray and Church have the upper hand when it comes to their special teams play with McCray possibly taking over as one of the main gunners for the team. Coach DeCamillis has raved nonstop over McCray and Church has been impressive on special teams as well.
McCann might be a tough player to try and get through waivers but the Cowboys will have to decide which players have more value for not only this season, but in the future as well. We've certainly learned over the past few years that a good safety is just too hard to come by.
Patrick Watkins vs. The World
Out of all this debate about which safeties to keep, Patrick Watkins is continuously left out of the conversation. Drafted in 2006 by Bill Parcells, he was thrown into the fire as a rookie before being unceremoniously benched. While Watkins had the speed and the range to play free safety he didn't have the recognition to apply that during the play and was frequently burned for long passes.
Since then, Watkins has started sparingly due to various injuries and has played both free safety and strong safety. While he never showed the potential we had all hoped he would at becoming the next great safety for the Cowboys, he also learned from his mistakes and was rarely beat as badly as we witnessed that first season. In the meantime, Watkins began to carve out a nice little niche for himself on special teams. Last season, Watkins was one the best special teams player for the Cowboys and had seemingly cemented himself on the roster due primarily to his prowess on punts and kickoffs.
Yet special teams players come and go. As the bottom of the roster is constantly churned, season in and season out, the special teams change as well. It's up to the coach to ensure there is continuity from year to year and unit to unit. No matter how great a player might be on special teams there will always come a time where is value is outweighed by that of a younger, cheaper and more promising player.
Watkins has two things going against him: he's heading into his fifth season and it doesn't look like he's going to be a starter anytime soon and he's been sidelined nearly all preseason with an injury allowing younger players to make an impression. I understand that some think his experience on special teams and at safety are too much to give up on but the reality is that his production can be picked up by other players who still show potential for the future.
Teams churn the roster every season. This year, Watkins appears to be a victim of that seasonal change.
Mike Hamlin is more valuable than you think
For some reason, I was met with some anger and vitriol earlier this week when I hinted that not only is Mike Hamlin a player that will make the roster but he's also a player that will get a shot at starting at some point. The Cowboys love the potential Hamlin brings to the free safety position and this weekend he's finally going to get his chance to really prove himself when he gets the start against Houston.
Last training camp Hamlin was impressive, showing incredible ball skills and range while also possessing the ability to play against the run as well. An injury sidelined him for half of last season and stunted his development, but his potential never changed. Heading into camp this season it was expected that Hamlin might battle Alan Ball for the starting safety position; while Ball basically grabbed onto that starting spot from the start, that hasn't changed the potential the Cowboys see in him.
Hamlin was having a good camp -- and was impressive in the preseason games -- before a concussion and neck sprain sidelined him for a week or so and one game. This allowed Church and McCray to grab the spotlight a bit with some spectacular plays while building up the thought that Hamlin is a player the Cowboys might cut before the season.
Hamlin is a very capable player on special teams, which is where he'll hopefully be used most this season, and proved as much last season when he returned from injury. While everyone was praising Watkins and Sam Hurd, I noticed Hamlin making play after play on special teams the second half of the season. This ability, along with his potential as a safety, is what is going to keep him on this team. Church and McCray are getting all of the attention, but for now it's Hamlin that is going to get the chance to shine on Saturday in Houston.
All of this could change over the next few weeks. Hamlin could get burned against the Texans while Watkins steps in and gets two interceptions. Something may happen elsewhere on the roster that alters the numbers at these positions. For now, however, based upon what we've been seeing in games this is how I believe the Cowboys will go when it comes to the cornerbacks and safeties.
As always, I reserve the right to change my mind after more preseason games are played.
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First to say
the Boys need to keep McCann. I think it’s harder to find a CB than a safety. If McCann can play in the NFL they need to hold on to him.
Lock n Load
OH
you are definitly not the first to say Dallas should keep McCann.
And while you say it’s harder to find a CB than a safety, it sure does seem like we’ve had some crappy ones for a while.
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Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.
Yeah..
I know I’m going to get flak over McCann. It just seems this is the direction the Cowboys are going.
One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth
by Brandon Worley on Aug 26, 2010 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
It's such a tough decision
I can’t imagine anyone taking flak for either position.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
i don't see McCann slipping through waivers.
i agree that McCann’s potential might make the Cowboys have a hard decision letting this kid go bc they knew its very unlikely he’ll make to the PS. C.Gordon has been great in TC picking off passes & looks great for a 4th CB but he’s also been doing it for 5 years & only battling for the 4th CB, after 5 years you would hope his body of work was better. Brian Brouddus an expert at ESPN really loves McCanns potential of being a starter in this league sooner rather then later & i doubt Gordon will ever have that kind of ability, IMO
people have seem to forgotten M.Hamlins potential but this kid has a huge upside & i hope he does well filling in at SS. he was drafted to play FS but now w/ Ball entrenched as the starter their giving him a chance to see what he can do at SS which would increase his roster value. what got my eye is they could use Hamlin as a hybrid ILB if JWill can’t get the job done but his reps at SS put that on hold. Hamlin also excels at special teams.
McCray was seeing time in that hybrid ILB in the nickle alongside JWill, its obvious JWill struggles in pass coverage. McCray has done outstanding in special teams this could make it easier to let Watkins go. i would agree McCray is a lock on this roster & has a lot of upside for a player that wasn’t drafted.
Church has had a decent TC & surprised some people for a guy who played at a small program. his strengths are tackling & theirs no question he has some potential but w/ his lack of speed & ability to cover could allow them to think he’s the easiest to sneak to the practice squad. he’s considered an in the box safety (kinda like Roy Williams was) but the coaches did see some flashes of his ability to reconize coverages. right now he’s still raw & his head is spinning like most rookies but if he can make a mark on special teams it could allow them to look at another position to keep 6 safetys. w/ having Sensabaugh, Ball, Hamlin, Akawsi all as locks, my guess is McCray makes it as the 5th Safety. they have plenty of depth & versilility at safety & that could allow them to only carry 5.
Watkins & Hurd will be hard to replace on special teams & JoeD could get the final say on a couple bubble cuts.
this is just my opinion from what i’ve seen & read, i apolgize if it offends anyone elses therory
Move Over Sweetness, Make A Place For Emmitt!
by Va_Cowboy_Fan on Aug 28, 2010 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
My problem wasnt with Hamlin, it was with his fans giving him the job but had to do with completely dimissing Church.
Their arguement always went back to Hamlin college days. Our point was this is the pros and Church has made plays. Thats it.
Hamlin is a shade quicker and 10lbs lighter. With todays game prefering Safeties with coverage skills over “in the box” types I believe Hamlin has the edge on him but its not cut and dry.
I also dont think Hamlin starting(next 2 preseason games) says anything other than the team needs to see Hamlin with the starters to grade him fairly. I want somebody to step and shine brightly. Weak safety play seems to be our legacy since Woodson retired.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
and completely dismissing Church
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
I agree with squidlo
(and Brandon, I didn’t mean to meet you with anger and vitriol; it was supposed to be exacerbation and confusion, eventually transitioning to melancholy and sadness, ending with Coors Light induced amnesia.)
I’m still a Mike Hamlin fan, but he hasn’t shown his talent and ability on the field in an NFL game yet. Plus Church is my pet cat, so of course I have to defend him. Plus I really think he’d be a valuable addition to the roster. His position (in the box SS) may be less valued in today’s NFL, but his attributes as a player will never be. He hasn’t looked like a liability in coverage at all, he was step for step with Gates on a play, almost deflected the pass and still made the tackle. That’s a good test for any rookie. He’s worth a spot on the roster.
Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.
by APerfectStar on Aug 27, 2010 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions
keeper
for me, our keepers are:
McCann – high hopes for this kid, love to see him on the field in preseason, pretty good cover and thats the thing, we didnt see from Scandrick last year almost all year long
Church – also good one, pretty good play at safety…
Hamlin – I just still didnt see nothing from him, just hype from fans…maybe this hype is true, but this week I am going to watch him all game long…
McCray – hm …I think if someone should go, then McCray ..at safety position he doesnt impress me enough from that i red about TC…just ST guy…
before there was law, there were the Cowboys!!!
I don't think Hamlin is a lock on this team.
If he doesn’t look good in the next 2 games he might be waved. Jerry said they might keep 3 NTs, if so that opens up a new can of worms.
Lock n Load
I'm trying to figure this out.
Has Hamlin played poorly and I have just missed it?
One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth
by Brandon Worley on Aug 26, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Hm...ok.
I’m not able to listen to his radio show.
Let’s see what he does Saturday then.
One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth
by Brandon Worley on Aug 26, 2010 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
From Broaddus yesterday:
In this secondary, the numbers don’t favor McCann.
If he is released and he clears waivers, he will find a spot on the practice squad with Jamar Wall. On the practice squad, both McCann and Wall will benefit from working on a daily basis against receivers like Austin, Bryant and Crayton, so that will be a positive experience.
As much as I want this team to carry five corners and five safeties, I now believe that it’s going the route of four corners and six safeties with the position flexibility coming from Ball and Owusu-Ansah.
One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth
by Brandon Worley on Aug 26, 2010 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
He changed his tune from the morning show.
It was Tuesday morning when he said that Hamlin was not a lock. He does about 5 minutes of Cowboy camp on the morning show with Skin and Ben.
Lock n Load
He's got the best set of eyes among the Metroplex scribes
The guy has been a scout for three different organizations, including the Cowboys. He ran a war room for the Eagles and the first two guys he drafted, Tra Thomas and Jeremiah Trotter, were All Decade players.
Can Calvin Watkins or Timmy Mac or Todd Archer or the Ball of Haze say that?
So what do you think of Mike Hamlin?
From your limited viewing?
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Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.
Fair enough.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.
I think this is the point of many of us
He might be the best safety on the team, but we won’t know until he actually plays.
Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.
by APerfectStar on Aug 27, 2010 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly....
I think I trust Broaddus over everyone in the media. He’s an actual scout, not someone with a journalism degree. I don’t even pretend to know a percentage as much as he does. A lot of ny opinion comes from what I’ve hears from him.
I trust Raf just under him.
I trust Timmy Mac about as far as I can throw him.
One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth
by Brandon Worley on Aug 26, 2010 6:05 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I would take the very next flight to Dallas
to see that throw.
by One.Cool.Customer on Aug 26, 2010 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree with all.
And you can throw Watkins in with Timmy Mac.
T. Mac is bad
but Watkins is REAL bad.
by Dezstroyer88 on Aug 27, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
i respect a scouts opinion,
thats why i like reading gil brandts opinions,hes great at assessing talent.
those guys have forgotten more than i know..
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Aug 27, 2010 3:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Wait,
So where does JJTaylor fit into this?
If Brad Pitt is playing Beane who do you want playing you?
JD: Eddie Guardado.
by GhettoBear04 on Aug 27, 2010 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
On the espndallas cowboy blog, Broaddus' entries are the only ones I read word for word. The others I just kind of skim through.
His are the only entries on there that are worth a damn.
Whatever happened to Jamar Wall?
It’s a little surprising to see our 6th rounder drop so completely off the radar. He was mentioned in passing only twice in the BTB camp coverage, and the only thing I found on him is this three week old soundbite from Dave Campo:
“I’d say Cletis Gordon has been in the lead, he’s got the experience,” Campo said following Wednesday’s practice. “I like Cletis. I think he’s made as much improvement as anybody out here. I feel like he’s really embraced the scheme and he’s working very well and he offers something the other guys don’t have, he has size and uses his hands and he can be more physical than the other guys.”
“[Jamar Wall] is starting to make some plays and I think that’s going to be his strength. Sometimes he looks a little herky-jerky out there and not real smooth. But there’s been a lot of guys who played that looked real well but they don’t play very well. He has playmaking ability. When it’s for real, he’s a physical player and some of that stuff will begin to show up.”
“Bryan McCann is technically sometimes better than the veteran guys, just footwork, break-and-drive and all those kinds of things, but he’s 186 pounds, [Wall] is 196 and [Gordon] 200. What’s he going to do when the pads come on? Are the big receivers going to push him and that kind of thing? He looks a little smoother than Wall, but Wall I’ve seen play but you have to see who is going to be a factor.”
by One.Cool.Customer on Aug 26, 2010 4:45 PM CDT reply actions
Wall got banged up in that first preseason game
I think that’s hurt him.
One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth
by Brandon Worley on Aug 26, 2010 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably
I just find it strange that the Cowboys scouting department apparently has a hot hand for getting supposedly quality UDFAs, but at the same time apparently misses on a 6th rounder who – at least on paper – should be better.
by One.Cool.Customer on Aug 26, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
How much difference is there in a 6th rounder and a UDFA talent wise?
Both are a crap shoot IMO.
Lock n Load
totally agree
It’s a crap-shoot trying to predict NFL ability IN THE FIRST ROUND … Once you get past the first 100 – 150 players, it starts to require a combination of scouting ability and voodoo.
When we are picking 6th and 7th round guys, I hope they shine. But I’m never surprised to see them head for the PS. As for our run of luck with UDFAs, you have to give credit to this staff for consistently finding talent. To focus on the “miss” here while we’re landing multiple UDFAs is short-sighted.
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
This just in from Gerry Fraley from the DMN
Strangely, they posted this in the Denton Record Chronicle before it shows up at DMN.
Church was too slow. McCray was just a guy at LSU, starting less than half the time. McCann would give up as many plays as he made. Gronkowski was caught between positions: too small for tight end; not talented enough for fullback. Costa lacked size.
It’s easier for a scout to say what a player cannot do than to find what he can do. Tom Ciskowski, director of college and pro scouting, college scouting coordinator Chris Hall and the scouts found something to like in these players. Each was on the Cowboys’ draft board.
“They take pride in that here, having guys on their draft board and going out to get them,” coach Wade Phillips said. “I’ve been impressed with that. It’s paid off well for this team.” Phillips’ staff saw what the scouts noticed. These five players may be lacking in some ways, but they know how to play the game.
by One.Cool.Customer on Aug 26, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Everything we've seen from Wall
Has been lower than mediocre.
He gets beat by down-the-roster recievers, his biggest impact on special teams was getting juked out of his shoes by Jordan Shipley.
When they drafted him I think they saw a guy who was a project corner but could make a big impact on special teams with the big hits he showed in college. Instead they got a VERY project corner who wiffs on tackles in special teams.
Cut bait.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 26, 2010 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions
He'll probably go to the practice squad.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.
I don’t see Wall playing in the NFL.
From what I’ve seen, Wall is good covering the short stuff … he cuts, changes direction, and tackles well. However, he doesn’t have the speed to run with NFL WR. Which is a fatal problem.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Aug 27, 2010 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions
I disagree
I think he’ll end up on a team that runs a lot of zone, and not much man to man. Or even possibly be converted to a backup safety. Which ironically is what his profile in the draft guides states.
Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.
by APerfectStar on Aug 27, 2010 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions
and I think he's Mike Mickens 2.0
we’ll find out shortly
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Aug 28, 2010 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Costa lacked size?
He’s 6’3" 316. How is that small for a center? Gurode is 6’4" 318, and he’s considered big for a center, isn’t he? Nick Mangold is the best C in the league, and he’s 6’4 305.
Not picking on OCC, just on the less-than-critical thinking skills employed by certain DMN “journalists”.
He has short arms and some analysts will downgrade you on this if you're on OL or DL
cause winning punchouts are so important under the current rules.
Of course, Russell Maryland had short arms too and when he started slowly, a lot of the draft book regurgitators used this as an explanation. Then, he got comfortable with the pro game and had a solid career.
As for Costa, who knows?
let me amend that
He probably has normal length arms but pro football linemen typically have uncommonly long arms.
let me add to that
per the DMN:
Costa’s chief limitation is arm length. He has shorter arms than most linemen, and that makes it difficult for him to deliver a ``punch’’ to defensive linemen. Costa said he has learned how to work around that. ``My arms might be just as long as (Indianapolis’) Jeff Saturday, and he’s a great center,‘’ Costa said. ``Sure, it helps to have long arms. But you can get it done if you have good technique.’’
by One.Cool.Customer on Aug 26, 2010 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions
And...
much like Doug Free benefited last season and this off season by working with Ware after practice, Costa is working with JRat after practice:
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4671317/jay-ratliff-takes-phil-costa-to-class
The All-Pro nose tackle spent about 15 minutes after this morning’s walkthrough working with the undrafted rookie center.
Jay Ratliff says he’s willing to work with anybody who asks him, but his session with Phil Costa is also evidence of Ratliff’s respect for the scrappy center.
This is great to see! You just can’t say enough about the camaraderie and willingness to teach by the vets on this team.
Rabid and luvin' it
great posts guys....
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Aug 27, 2010 3:25 AM CDT up reply actions
that's a good sign
Costa was on my “why keep him, lets troll other teams Practice Squads for someone better” list -
but that note changes my view a little.
"Where's Woody? - We need another Darren Woodson
Pun intended?
Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable. --
Tom Landry
by Pnut Gallery on Aug 27, 2010 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Hamlin is not getting cut unless he completely blows it Saturday.
He can play both FS and SS, is a good special teamer, and has a knack for the ball. If Church, Hamlin, and Akwasi show enough on special teams the next two weeks McCray might be expendable. He was the one responsible on that big play the Chargers had but if he shows he has some long term potential at FS he might stick too.
Not sure I agree
I have a feeling that they are starting Hamlin because they 1) need to see something from him or 2) are shopping him. I think they’d like to avoid carrying six safeties. If McCann and Church are on the roster, and I think they are, then who’s gotta go if they decide to keep five? The only answer is Hamlin…
Sorry but I seriously disagree
McCann might be a tough player to try and get through waivers but the Cowboys will have to decide which players have more value for not only this season, but in the future as well. We’ve certainly learned over the past few years that a good safety is just too hard to come by.
You are basically saying a good safety is more valuable than a cornerback in the NFL. That is patently absurd.
As for the future, only two of those players have proved themselves on the defense side of the ball: McCann and Church. McCray hasn’t been exactly stellar on anything but Special teams (and good special teamers are a dime a dozen).
People also forget that McCann is a very good returner on Special Teams.
I just think it would be a huge mistake to cut someone who has potential to be a starting cornerback over a Keith Davis type player (which McCray is). That is just awful GM’ing.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
What if he is nothing more than Nate Jones?
Would a gunner that could contribute immediately be more valuable than that?
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.
That wasn't smartass either.
It’s a serious question.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.
What if Dez Bryant is nothing more than Jamaica Rector?
How do I know Bryant probably won’t be a Rector? Well because he is more talented.
Likewise – while I understand every team passed on McCann – it is a fact that McCann is much more athletic and fast than Nate Jones, and based on my personal assessment of watching both of them play extensively I can come to the conclusion that McCann is a better player.
And in my, admittedly, limited exposure to McCray, I sincerely doubt he’ll be anything more than a Keith Davis. Moreover, how often do you read reports of McCray making plays in training camp compared to McCann? It is not even close.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
dez bryant
If dez is completly the bust, then I just definitly killed my team in keeper league ….coz I drafted him in 6th round ( first five round were keepers) with hope, that he will be WR stud in next two seasons…
before there was law, there were the Cowboys!!!
Miles Austin could be a Braylon Edwards
by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 26, 2010 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Austin is not chronical droper!!!
before there was law, there were the Cowboys!!!
disagree blue..
austins the real deal..
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Aug 27, 2010 3:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
And I know work out numbers aren’t the deciding factor, but Mcann is a 4.35 speed guy – The physical potential is there. Contrast those physical attributes with someone like Church who is like a 4.6 speed guy and was out of breath after running 70 yards down the field and being caught by the opposing team’s QB.
Doesnt it also depend on how stacked you are at one position over another. Does age or experience of each position matter.
Does whats available in next years draft come into play. Do we really need another returner. Does the guy playing his position better come into play.
Somebody we dont want to let go is gonna go. With good players overstocked at CB, S’s, LB’s, WR’s, and NT. Then throw in McGee and Sissmore and you got big decisions to make.
Several of us will be whining soon. God forbid if who we let cut goes on to greatness. Their camp will never let it go.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
And we aren't stacked at Safety?
If we keep both McCray and Church that will be 6 safeties and 4 CBs. As oppose to keeping McCann and only Church, which would be 5 and 5.
Not to mention who is going to take Newman’s place in a couple of years? Are you so confident that Scandrick will be able to?
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Scandrick is a slot guy. Thats where he seems to excel. When Newnman is done, I want to go back to the 1st round.
If McGann is making more plays then I want him. I have seen him all over the field but I have heard lots of love for thew other.
I knew we werent close to stacked at S and was wondering if the carbet bombing technique was coming into play.
I just want players.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
I disagree
Sensi, Ball, Hamlin, AOA, then throw in Church. That is a pretty stacked safety position.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
Calm down there...
Having a lot of players at a position doesn’t mean it’s “stacked.” Sensabaugh’s the only one who has proven anything in the NFL and the most you could say about him is that he’s solid, which we’re quite thankful for after what we’ve had at the position since Woodson retired. Just because some of these guys have shown promise doesn’t mean we’re stacked.
by Stephan Wilson on Aug 27, 2010 2:30 AM CDT up reply actions
so true,
weve been so poor at safety in recent years that we tend to elevate the play of some players..
wishing for another woodson..
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Aug 27, 2010 3:30 AM CDT up reply actions
VS. Tnew, Jenkins, Scandrick at CB.
I think their is more talent at the CB position. We need another but my doubts are a lot less than our main starters Sensi and Ball at the safety position..
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
Which I stated I wanted to back in the first round. Still very good for another year or 2.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
Proved?
C’mon, all these guys have done is proven they can play in the preseason. I’m willing to find out if Hamlin can do that before saying these guys are the next Ronnie Lott and Champ Bailey.
Unfortunately thats all they are able to prove at this time.
Lott and Bailys name werent mentioned.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
Who said anything about Lott or Bailey?
I’m talking about fringe backup players who most likely will only ever play ST this season.
One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth
by Brandon Worley on Aug 26, 2010 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly.
One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth
by Brandon Worley on Aug 26, 2010 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions
On the McCann vs. McCray tip, I tend to agree with quincyyyy. I always prefer the prospect with a celiling that could start for you one day to the career special teamer. What I’ve seen from McCray so far indicates that he’s not a starter, he’s a special teams guy.
I haven’t watched McCann specifically in the pre-season, but I know he’s been in the secondary when the 2nd team is playing the 1st teams of Cincy and Oaklnad who couldn’t find an open reciever and against San Diego I didn’t hear his name called once against the 1st team. If a rookie corner can hold his own with starters, he’s a keeper in my books.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 26, 2010 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions
You can patent absurdity??
Man, I could be rich by now. Why doesn’t anyone ever tell you these things????
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
now yer talkin'
:)
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
Jamar Wall
sucks. Yeah, I said it. He is Mike Mickens and DeAngelo Smith of this year. Teddy Williams has made more plays than him and he hadn’t played football in almost 5 years. Wall is simply too slow and stiff to be effective as a CB for us. He has been the worst DB in the entire preseason.
As for McCann, I just hope and pray the kid makes it through waivers because he’s showing he has what it takes to develop into a good corner in the NFL.
agree, and he is slow too
Im sure he cant play corner with this speed…corner to safety transition is his last chance…
before there was law, there were the Cowboys!!!
Cut Bait
I have no interest in Jamar Wall, and I feel confident this team agrees.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 26, 2010 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions
They can't all be winners, the draft picks that is
McCann is definitely the best rookie CB we have. And Teddy Williams is an intriguing project with that speed and height. I think Williams will be able to get on the PS, waiving McCann would be riskier, as teams are always looking for CB depth. I feel like it’s a better than 50% chance some team grabs him.
Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.
by APerfectStar on Aug 27, 2010 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions
arm length is very over rated
Jake Long and Joe Thomas both do not have the extra long arms that supposedly LTs need. An inch or so less arm lenght means nothing.
more CBs
I always want more CBs because unless you have a guy that can play both just as well the safety is very rarely worth more than a CB.
+1
I don’t want another Keith Davis. A perennial backup safety who is a good STer. McCray has shown nothing in camp so far that demonstrates that he has the potential to be anything more.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
You know who has never gotten any love on here from the monent he was picked.
Young! From what I have read and specifically Broaddus, the guy looks like a keeper who has been remarkedly steady. This guy was tarred and feather within 30 seconds of the announced pick. Cement shoes seems to be the early concensus.
Well, I guess we got a few holes in our GM’ing skills.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
Funny enough, check out the draft day thread when Sean Lee was drafted
unfortunately I have to count myself among those who initially bashed the Lee pick. But a day later I was high on him like everyone else.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
not thesame Sam Young
the Sam Young I watched at Notre Dame did not have the fire and anger this one has. He is an imposter,
by burmafrd1944 on Aug 26, 2010 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions
so, would that be a mouth-ful ... or an ear-ful?
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
He's being compared to Colombo.
I does not understand.
One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth
by Brandon Worley on Aug 26, 2010 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions
if he ends up being a players, there will be a TON of humble pie to eat on this site
:)
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
I think it's the
big-effort-try hard-not overly athleteic-seems to get the job done-guy thing.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
Scandrick broke his nose in practice
From ESPNDallas:
Cornerback Orlando Scandrick suffered a broken nose during Thursday afternoon’s practice.
The injury is not expected to prevent Scandrick from playing in Saturday’s preseason game against the Houston Texans.
Scandrick got injured when he made a diving play to deflect a pass to Terrell Hudgins on the sideline. He stayed down for several seconds and was helped off the field by head athletic trainer Jim Maurer, who held the nose with a bloodied towel.
Rabid and luvin' it
Damn.
That’s one tough dude.
One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth
by Brandon Worley on Aug 26, 2010 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Playing with a broken nose?
Man, that’s tough.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 26, 2010 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Its really not that big a deal.
I broke my nose during a college rugby game, stuffed gauze up my nostrils and finished the game.
Its actually a funny story because I met a girl at the after party who asked me if I was on the team. I said yeah, I was the guy who broke his nose. She said, oh my God all that blood made me throw up! And then we hooked up that night.
- "If you know so much about women why are you here at the Gas 'n' Sip on a Saturday night completely alone drinking beers with no women anywhere?"
- "By choice! Man"
by fan since '65 on Aug 27, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
love a romantic story ... ; )
Davie Wilson
how bout them cowboys!!!
by scotscowboyfan on Aug 28, 2010 2:24 AM CDT up reply actions
i read today it wasn't broke
i read earlier that xrays were negative on Scandricks nose & he just banged up pretty good. he could play saturday
Move Over Sweetness, Make A Place For Emmitt!
by Va_Cowboy_Fan on Aug 28, 2010 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
If the young guys play well.....
to the trade deadline I’d dump Sensabaugh who is over rated and doesn’t make big plays.
It should lead to a second round pick as a price target. He is a good back but will never be great. AOA looks the part and I think the others have looked good as well.
DBs can play or they can’t, they’ll get experience by playing not on the bench.
all? no way! I's got's to add in one more ... LOL
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
Wall seems gone....and....
it seems Bright is out as well. I was rooting for him, I hope he gets a job and he seems too old for the PS.
What went wrong other than Costa improving?
It's not unheard of to find O-Line career guys in the UDFAs
I was also pulling for Bright, but if Costa is the man I’ll be just as happy :)
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
Just finished my first fantasy draft of the year....
Romo
Palmer
Rice
Benson
Felix
Foster
Ladanian
Welker
TO
Berrian
Roy Williams (in the last round!)
Massoquoi
Witten
Gersham
Hartlem
Packers
No one suspected I was a cowboys loyal…..
I like everything but your WR corps.
Welker is coming off an injury. T.O has been declining for some time and is in my opinion nothing more than a #2 option in a good offense these days. Berrian is really up and down, and your other two receivers (RW and Massoquoi) could be either steals or busts.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Cowboyfan729 on Aug 26, 2010 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I took Rice, Benson and Romo
in the first three rounds whileother people were getting Andre Johnsn, larry Fitz, Wayne, etc…..Ive see 2 Bengals preseason games and TO has been the target of many passes. Im pretty sure he’ll get about 1000 yards and 6 or 7 TD’s.
Welker is Brady’s favorite……he’ll get the touches.
Berrian and RW were he only “starters” left at that point. Williams im hoping he’ll at least get the TD’s
Massaquoi I shouldnt need but I hear Delhomm is doing OK in Cleveland.
Do you mean Minnesota's Sydney Rice?
Sorry to burst your bubble, but he is out at least half the year with hip surgery.
- "If you know so much about women why are you here at the Gas 'n' Sip on a Saturday night completely alone drinking beers with no women anywhere?"
- "By choice! Man"
by fan since '65 on Aug 27, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Scandrick broke his nose.
And AOA filled in on the first team nickel as the slot corner.
I know that doesn’t mean anything, but I found it interesting.
One of the last Joe Nieuwendyk supporters in Dallas....
Defending Big D - Dallas Stars news & analysis; SB Nation Dallas-Fort Worth
Well...
they have been giving him work in the slot over the past week. I think they’re really trying to find ways of getting him on the field and justifying carrying him on the 45-man besides just KR’s.
Rabid and luvin' it
I read somewhere
As soon as AOA came in they went right after him, and he broke up the first pass his way.
You aint been around in awhile, maybe you haven't heard........I don't shine shoes no more
Since this is the newest thread, I thought I would post this here.
Max Unger and John Carlson Combine for a Three and Out. Its a thread on the Seahwks about Unger being terrible. They dont seem to happy at all with his progressed. Its early but for all of you guys who have never gotten over losing Unger and have took every opportunity to bash Jerry, might want to rethink it.
How do you post a link.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
Since Im clueless, On the right hand side under recents posts is a rotating section of
Recent SB Nation posts. On their is a link to a recent post bashing Unger.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2010/8/26/1652682/max-unger-and-john-carlson-combine
How about this.
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
You've just got to paste it...
in the text box instead of the title. Otherwise, it just points you right back to your comment. Here’s the link:
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2010/8/26/1652682/max-unger-and-john-carlson-combine
Rabid and luvin' it
Thanks
Ability is a poor mans wealth.
The main ingredient of stardom is the rest of the team.
Talent is God given, Be humble. Fame is man given, Be grateful. Conceit is self-given, Be careful.
-John Wooden-
Cut mcgee
I feel way more confident that mccann and mccray can actually have productive futures with our team as opposed to mcgee who has shown nothing not even a flash of potential. Either that or keep 5 wr. We really don’t need 6 considering how much we use our TEs and how much we can and should utilize our 3 badass RBs
by CarpeBobby on Aug 26, 2010 11:04 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
It's hard to cut a guy like Hurd or Ogletree
which is why they’ll probably keep 6 WR – although of the two Hurd would be the easier to cut since he’s been here a while and hasn’t taken the next step to being a starting caliber WR. Maybe he’ll get traded and that’ll solve the problem.
+1
Too bad we don’t have Matt Moore in that slot…I say cut Mcgee and Hurd. They have very low ceilings.
by Stephan Wilson on Aug 27, 2010 2:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Hamlin
Just thinking logically. Since Hamlin isn’t starting, he must show he is significantly better than the rookies; church, mccray and AOA, to have a job. All three appear to be good special teams players and may at least be good back ups next year. If, after a year of experience, he is no better than the rookies, he won’t make the team. He needs to show that he has made serious strides. He needs to push for the starting job. He has not shown this, albeit due to injury. He’ll get his chance in the next couple of games, if he falls on his face, I can see him getting cut.
Hamlin has only been here for a year and was out injured a lot of last year.
He’s almost a rookie, yet has shown enough to get some really nice praise from the coaches. Why are guys around here so eager to get rid of him? He is both a ballhawk, and will hit people (i.e. will do both safety positions). I really think if he’s given a chance he will people excited about him. But give him a real chance to learn and grow into the position.
I don't think people are wanting to get rid of him
It’s all about the numbers crunch, and the 2 young safeties have been playing well, plus AOA is a lock for the roster. People just want Hamlin to show he’s worth a spot on the roster.
Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.
by APerfectStar on Aug 27, 2010 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions
How have McCray and Church proved that they are good safeties?
Yeah, they’ve done well on special teams but neither has proved to be particularly good in coverage. Church picked up a fumble caused by B. James… Great. A lot of people are going to be disappointed if they suddenly think one or both of these guys is ready for prime time. Sensi and Ball can handle the safety duties for now and I have high hopes for Hamlin and Akwasi… Let’s keep McCann… Dude has proven to be pretty good in coverage in a game (granted, it’s preseason) and does have the physical skills to be successful. And, if I had to choose between McCray and Church, I go with McCray who seems to be the super special teamer. I don’t know for sure but I suspect that Church could make it to the practice squad… No one is clamoring to pick up a 4.7 in the box safety type who hasn’t done anything special in the preseason…
Church had 5 tackles including critical short-yardage stops
And covered Antonio Gates pretty well. And there is no harder TE to cover than gates. Plus, we’ve seen no mental mistakes so far.
Those are all good signs
by Blue Eyed Devil on Aug 27, 2010 7:00 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
On TE's
I’m not going to lie, Jermichael Finley worries the hell out of me when we play them this year.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.
Boy, he's smooth.
I’m more worried about Rodgers than Finley though. The Packers, straight up, have a hell of a team. I think they’ll take the NFC North this season.
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
I agree
Although Minnesota beat Dallas down, I’m still worried about the Packers more than any other team.
Of course by then who knows what could happen.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
Quoting yourself doesn't require your own name attached to it. I'm going to assume if there isn't anyone else's name attached it's yours.
I tend to agree
Favre is the secret ingredient and I doubt he can replicate what in many ways was a career year. At his age. I’d pick the Pack at this point, and would not be surprised if the Lions and Bears (oh my!) don’t take a game from those two here or there.
FREE THE OGLETREE!!!
One way Minnesota can stay at last year's level
No telling what will happen. Very few teams can survive losing their top 2 receivers. But Minnesota was easily the best team in the league last year and Adrian Peterson had by far his worst year. He became a liability down the stretch.
If AP can play at the dominant level that got them to the playoffs with T-Jack, Favre can push them over the top with Shancoe and whoever they have playing receiver.
Again, that’s a big if. The probabilities would suggest that won’t happen and the Packers will probably win the North… if Rodgers survives the beating he’s going to take from D-Ware.
by JimmyJohnson on Aug 27, 2010 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions
But Minnesota was easily the best team in the league last year
on what basis do you say that? The results, and the statisticians, disagree.
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2010/01/super-bowl-probabilities.html
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2010/01/playoff-team-efficiency-comparison.html
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Aug 27, 2010 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
CowboysMA
I think it’s a little misleading to say all Church did was pick up a fumble. Sensi went out pretty early in the game, and Church stepped in an played very well. Aside from the game changing fumble return, he stopped a goal line run, tackled Mathews unassisted for no gain, and most importantly, wasn’t picked on in coverage by one of the better QB/TE tandems in the NFL.
I won’t argue about McCray, because I kind of agree with you. He seems to be Coach D’s favorite guy, and is always in on the tackles, but I don’t remember him doing much on defense. But I think he’s sewn up a spot based on ST play.
Hamlin needs to impress in these last couple pre-season games.
Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.
by APerfectStar on Aug 27, 2010 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I get the feeling McCann will be the Matt Moore of this rookie class.
2009 BTB Fantasy Champ... Deal with it
If the Cowboys keep 3 QBs, 3NTs and 6 WRs ...
what is the highest number of DBs they might keep? 10? Because it seems to be between Church and McCann for that last spot… and keeping 11 doesn’t seem likely.
I’d vote for McCann, despite Church’s solid play… but I’d rather keep ’em all :)
Original Pet-Cats: Duane Thomas, Roger Staubach, Walt Garrison, Charlie Waters, Bob Lilly
+1
The coaches have to know that Church, McCann and McCray will be stolen away if they try to sneak any of them onto the practice squad. Would be nice if the pokes could keep all three. Maybe go with 2 QBs, 2NTs and 5 WRs? Time to churn and burn the bottom 3 or 4 and inject some talented youth with lots of upside into this team and see what happens. Pretty tough decisions for Jerry, Stephen, and the coaches, ain’t it? But that’s why they make the big bucks and I sling taaka.
I agree with your analysis of Hamlin, Brandon.....spot on
I see him and Ball being out future starters for years to come at safety
In Romo we Trust
Campo/JoeD should get some of the credit.
both these guys have done a great job coaching this group of DBs & special teamers. i can’t remember the last time we had so many young CBs & DBs with so much potential. we could have a few undrafted players breaking the 45 man roster, this a great story of the hidden talent thats overlooked every year. this will cause NFL teams to leave no stone unturned in the future…
Move Over Sweetness, Make A Place For Emmitt!
Yeah, and Brett Maxie (safeties) and John Garrett (our utility coach)
The fact that there is this much discussion over back up safeties and 4th or 5th CB’s is pretty rare and a good thing. I thought CB looked a little thin before TC, but now, jeez.. This defense is very talented at the top and pretty deep across the board. Gotta feel good about that if your a Cowboys fan.
Thank you #22, for everything you did for the Cowboys. There will never be another one like you.
by APerfectStar on Aug 28, 2010 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions

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