The #9 Debate...................No Not Tony Romo, The Other #9
Von Miller LB Texas A&M
Von Miller sack specialist, the next Clay Matthews?
In this fanpost I want to discuss a few topics, mainly the divide on Von Miller and why I think you might want to take a closer look. First I want to start with the last two #9 draft picks from the previous NFL Drafts. In 2010 The Buffalo Bills selected C.J. Spiller 9th overall. In my personal opinion Spiller might of been the best RB from his class, but taking a RB over a few other players on a team desperate for playmakers has both sides of a argument here. One can say Buffalo took the BPA, the best player on their board, or they took the best playmaker that was available. Now I obviously didn't run Buffalo's war room, but if I did I would of taken a closer look at a few different options here.
Buffalo had a option to take the best safety in the class, Earl Thomas here but decided to take Spiller. Simply put the 2011 NFL Draft won't feature a Earl Thomas 9th overall, Rahim Moore is the best safety in the class but until we see his combine and how that effects his draft status, currently 9th overall is a reach in most opinions. Buffalo had a luxory pick here, and went with a RB. Now I grade Mark Ingram very highly, and to me he reminds me of another #22, the great Emmitt Smith. Spiller yes a playmaker but more known for his speed is something Dallas already has in Felix Jones. With Ingram you might get the best BPA left, which Jerry and Stephen have endorsed over the past few days. I am not promoting the pick of Ingram, unless he is indeed the BPA when the time comes. It looks like a classic Jerry pick, so be prepared. But like Buffalo, you would be getting a top tier RB, but the difference here is Ingram is a Heisman Trophy WInner, and with all the adversity in his life looks like a great young man. He just has the Emmitt type of style to him, so if indeed his is the selection, I would be very proud and have been preparing myself for that selection.
Buffalo also passed on a premier OT in Anthony Davis from Rutgers. In a class deep with OL talent, Buffalo could of selected Mike Iupati or Anthony Davis here. What is amusing is that the 49ers ended up with both of those players, giving them two huge pieces of the puzzle on OL. The only player that I can say is similar to Davis is Tyron Smith from USC, but Davis was already 323 pounds come draft day. Smith indeed can have a great combine and propel himself into top 10 status, thus making him the 9th overall selection a much better play than reaching for him. I myself compare Smith to another OL who came into the draft undersized but with great talent, D'Brickashaw Ferguson. Ferguson came into the draft around 300-310 pounds, it varies by the draft service. So if Smith has a great combine and weighs around 300-310 come draft time, he very well could be the 9th overall selection. Ferguson was taken 4th overall by the Jets, with a scouting grade of 98 by Scouts Inc. Smith already has a grade of 93 by Scouts Inc and has a similar scouting report. So if Dallas grades out Tyron Smith high, he should be the first OL off the board. It is yet to be known how high Dallas will grade Derek Sherrod or Gabe Carimi. Carimi received a grade of 92 and Sherrod a grade of 76. Two other OL, Nate Solder received a grade of 94 but I want no parts of Solder. Anthony Costanzo received a 91 and is another OL I want no parts of at 9th overall.
Part of the problem I have recently thought about was that if people want Dallas to fix the OL, and they take a OL 9th overall, I think alot of people on here would complain. Even the same people who want OL help might be complaining. Dallas needs to address the OL folks, we all know that, so if they take Tyron Smith 9th overall, I bet you would see alot of hating going on. I just see people complaining about the OL, and how Dallas needs to fix it, but it looks to me they don't want Smith or Sherrod that high. I don't know, just be prepared for public backlash if we take a OL 9th overall because people always find a way to bash this team in some sort of fashion.
Buffalo also passed on Mike Iupati as we mentioned earlier. who Scouts Inc gave a 93 grade. Iupati was the best G in the draft, but apparently Buffalo didn't view him highly. Now Iupati is a player I loved, and so did Dallas. Along with the great Earl Thomas, Iupati was one of the few players Dallas would of traded up for. The one we wanted we got in Dez Bryant, who received a grade of 94 from Scouts Inc. Dez Bryant made all the sense in the world at the 24 pick. Honestly to get a playmaker of his skill at 24 is a diamond, a epic steal. This draft there again, is no Mike Iupati. No guard has put himself into a early first round consideration. So we won't be seeing a guard selected that high.
Now Jacksonville took Tyson Alualu with the 10th selection that draft. Alualu had a great combine and workout and blew up the boards, but I was still surprised to see him go that high. Alualu had a grade of 89 from Scouts Inc, and another Cal Bear is a first round buzz, Cameron Jordan and is a player I value highly. Jordan has a grade of 93 from Scouts Inc, so my point is if Cameron Jordan is a better player and Alualu can go 10th overall, what spot could Jordan go? Cameron Jordan is going to be a great 3-4 DE, and scouts rave about his skills at the 5 technique but also his ability to line up all over the line. Cameron Jordan may not be a sexy pick to some, but Jordan is a stud. Not only in my eyes is he a stud, but alot of draft services. If Jordan participates in the Senior Bowl, he could sky rocket into the top 15 talk, maybe higher. A guy who loved Alualu last year was Mike Mayock on the NFL Network. I think Mayock is a great evaluator of talent and really knows his stuff. I guarantee Mayock hypes Jordan up like he did with Alualu and that right there alone could sell Jordan even more. Brandon Graham did the same thing last year, had himself a amazing Senior Bowl and combine, then the Eagles traded up to 13 to snatch him up. It goes to show you how a team will value a DE with pass rushing ability.
Buffalo didn't get a chance to take a look at Joe Haden, who was selected by the Browns 7th overall. Haden in most eyes was the best corner of the 2010 NFL Draft, he had a grade of 93. Now in my opinion Devin McCourty was the best corner in the draft. He had a grade of a 90. This year there are only 2 CB's in the draft that are worth the #9 pick this year, that is Patrick Peterson with a grade of 97, and Prince Amukamara with a grade of 96. There is a good chance Amukamara can fall to us 9th overall, but I am very skeptical of that happening. Cover corners, the lockdown ones are a very rare specimen. If somehow Amukamara falls to us at the 9 slot, then it should be one of the easiest decisions Dallas will have to make all offseason.
Buffalo had their options at 9th overall that year, and went with a playmaker at RB. What Dallas would of done 9th overall that year would of been Earl Thomas, Mike Iupati, or Dez Bryant. Dez is my favorite player and I would never re-do that draft and take another player. But the need of OL and S is so drastic that one could make that argument, and I would listen to that argument. Dez Bryant is a star and a budding superstar. So lets accept that fact we got one of the best young WR's in the NFL and move on. Now if somehow Mark Ingram, who received a Scouts Inc grade of 91, I think some, well most would be mad. At least you would be getting a great RB who would be added to a great offense with alot of weapons. All I am saying is prepared for the pick if it happens and embrace it if you can because Ingram is a great player. All I can say is instead of getting a bust, you would be getting a great player.
One more draft I want to go over was the 2009 NFL Draft. Green Bay selected B.J. Raji who received a grade of 96. If Dallas had been picking there Raji and Brian Orakpo would of been the primary discussion. Yes I still think a pass rushing specialist on the other side of Ware would be a great idea to take a look at. My whole point is that there are options with this 9th pick, there is alot of talent. Especially the last two drafts there has been a rise in talent. Some years seemed like the talent pool was shallow, but not over the last two years. This draft is also talent filled, with 56 underclassmen declaring for the draft, a record high. So much for players being concerned about the CBA.
One point I wanted to make this post was that the similarities between players, should be taken into account. The two players from this draft I want to really take a look at is Von Miller and Tyron Smith.
Von Miller has been called "undersized" by alot on here and I understand that argument. But when I hear people rave about Clay Matthews I want to really break this down.
Clay Matthews received a grade of 91 from Scouts Inc that draft. I want to list what Matthews measured in at as well. Matthews weighed in at 6'3 and 240 pounds. Von Miller received a 95 grade and according to Scouts Inc weighs in at 6'3 and 238 pounds. So for everyone saying Miller is too small, is he really too small? Or is it unfair or ignorant to take a look at Clay Matthews who, didn't produce like Von Miller did at college. Matthews had similar knocks that people are putting on Miller, that he isn't good enough in the run game. Miller has amazing speed and I think can be just as good as Matthews is and develop like Matthews had to do. Matthews developed his game so he could be decent in the run game. Matthews also added about 10-15 pounds since his arrival at Green Bay. So why can't Miller do the same thing? Miller can bulk up another 10 pounds without juicing right?
My whole point is that Von Miller was a highly recruited player and produced at a high level that Matthews did not at USC. Miller has amazing speed and a first step that is similar to DeMarcus Ware's. When it comes down to make a selection 9th overall the war room will have to decide who to take here. If no team is willing to trade up to 9th overall after all of Dallas's guys are gone, then your going to have to draft a player 9th overall. See teams are going to know Dallas wants to trade back and take a OL, but from all accounts Jerry has been clear he will take the BPA, but you know they will be fielding offers all night and be busy on the phone trying to work a deal if Prince Amukamara is gone. If a team knows Dallas wants to trade down, right then Dallas has lost some leverage. It also could happen say Dallas does indeed trade down, then comes time to pick and there is nobody there they like, that is also a concerning scenario. I watched Miami trade down a couple of times because simply, their guy was gone. They ened up taking Jared Odrick 28th overall because they probably ran out of trades and simply had to take a player at that point. Im sure they liked Odrick or they wouldn't have drafted him, but Odrick wasn't the Dolphins first guy on the list, I just do not want to see that happen this year.
If Jason Pierre Paul, who received a grade of 94 and went 14th overall to the Giants, and Derrick Morgan, who received a grade of 95 and went 15th overall to the Titans, can be drafted that high, then so can Von Miller. I think Von Miller is a better player than both of them. I read a few scouting reports recently and they compared Miller to Clay Matthews. If all else fails and Prince Amukamara is gone, then Von Miller might be the best option here. At least we would be getting a premier pass rusher, imagine Ware with a Matthews type motor on the other side.
The best case scenario is Prince falling to 9th overall, that would be a easy pick. Cameron Jordan at 9th overall would give us a much needed pass rushing DE. Tyron Smith, if he has a great combine and workout would become the 1st OL taken this draft. Taking Tyron Smith would solve our problems at RT, where Smith started and had a great year for USC. Taking Tyron Smith 9th overall would be a great pick, your getting a D'Brickashaw Ferguson type of player. Mark Ingram would be a worst case scenario, if Dallas doesn't grade out Smith, Jordan, Miller that high, then Mark Ingram could be Jerry's pick.
The whole greatness of the 9th overall selection is that we simply have options. Below I will drop some videos of Von Miller, Cameron Jordan, and Tyron Smith. In the Tyron Smith video, he is #70 and is the RT, he is going up against Cameron Jordan.
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Amukakara
Is elite. The rest are very good and have high ceilings, but if you believe the whole “best player available” rhetoric, that’s the guy.
Please check out the charity that I run, Fort Worth Music Outreach@ www.fortworthmusicoutreach.org
ah
my point is, what if Amukamara is gone
you got options my man
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
Then Who is
in this scenario?
Please check out the charity that I run, Fort Worth Music Outreach@ www.fortworthmusicoutreach.org
In that case
I could live with Jordan, but I will punch myself in the nuts if we draft Ingram.
Please check out the charity that I run, Fort Worth Music Outreach@ www.fortworthmusicoutreach.org
LMFAO! be careful egriffrey
I will remember your promise to punch yourself in the nuts. Its good to be careful when making promises about what JJ will or won’t do. I lost a ton of fairly valuable paraphernalia (some of it from my childhood) to a bonfire after promising my mates that I would burn everything with a star on it if JJ allowed Terrell Owens to wear the star. I miss my stuff; but I still think it was criminal to let that jackass play as a Cowboy.
I guess punching yourself in the nuts aint that bad!
im geeked
About all the many possibilities that may present themselves at the 9th pick. Obviously Prince is a given if he is there unless Moore plays himself into consideration. But if we can’t trade down nd Prince is gone I like OLB if Miller is what the FO wants, but maybe they stick with a rotation of Spencer, who is amazing against the run and Butler as the pass down rusher. So what then?if there is a d lineman that can truely be disruptive I’m on board. I get your point on Ingrahm but I’m not thrilled about the idea. Love Smith’s potential but he’d be a project in our scheme. So I’m hoping for secondary help or a Miller type explosion at OLB.
by Bermystar on Jan 21, 2011 2:27 PM CST via mobile reply actions
not at RT
look at him vs Cam Jordan, who is really hard to stop
imo, he dominates Cam Jordan that game because he gets his hands around him
Smith can come in and play RT right away, thats jmo
unless we all think Columbo or Sam Young are good enough there, then we better damn draft or sign a RT
really I see us signing a RT and taking another OL in the 2nd or 3rd
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not against Sam Young playing RT
we gave Doug Free a chance because of injury and it played out well. Now we have deterioration at the RT position, I say give him a chance.
ugh
Im all for giving Young a chance, but you cant have another Alan Ball situation
be prepared, have 2 RT’s
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 5:44 PM CST up reply actions
feel me there right
with you I agree on Sam Young, I think he can become a nice RT
I just want options in case it doesnt work
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 6:01 PM CST up reply actions
checked the vid
Very impressive and you may well be correct. I still lean heavily towards a defensive pick at 9 and going Oline in the 2nd, but if he proves to he worthy of the pick come April (so much will change by then of course) then I’m down. I have been hoping for stud O lineman in the draft for years and it kills me that the one year we are unfortunate enough to draft this high is the one year no “blue chip” O lineman are available. Talk about shafted! But this offense behind a better O line is a damn scary thought.
by Bermystar on Jan 21, 2011 4:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
damn right
see im just saying if Smith flys up, he can play RT
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
The belief there is no blue chip OL is wrong.
Just because there is not an OT being over-hyped does not mean there is not a 10 time all pro waiting to be drafted. Sherrod and Carimi are both way above avereage players and are much better than some 1 year wonders that have been drafted top 10.
+1
If Prince is there…you take him..if Fairley is there(stranger things have happened, look here to see what I mean), you take him, if neither is there, Smith/Sherrod/Carmini (if they blow up the Combine)
formerly I draft the Cowboys!!!
Yes...I am Ironman....seriously my last name is ironman in German
Knowledge and Skill overcome superstition and Luck-Dawn Patrol
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 21, 2011 2:27 PM CST reply actions
try here
sorry forgot to post LInk(here)
formerly I draft the Cowboys!!!
Yes...I am Ironman....seriously my last name is ironman in German
Knowledge and Skill overcome superstition and Luck-Dawn Patrol
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 21, 2011 2:30 PM CST reply actions
It is really a moot point
if Prince isnt there and with washington ready to draft a qb at #10 dallas will trade out with a team that wants Cam Newton. I’ve seen a lot of mocks with dallas taking Prince and it looks to be possible but from what im hearing from my contact in Detriot (okay im overstating i got a friend who is a low level flunky) they are going to do everything within reason to trade up and get Prince.
It's not a moot point...
because the teams has to want a guy enough to be willing to trade up to get him.
How would anyone in Detroit know what the hell they are going to get right now. The freaking combine hasn’t even happened yet.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
Cowboys + {insert Big 12 Player) = FAIL
I love Von Miller and would be happy with that pick. However, cowboys mix with the big 12 like oil and fire… It seems every time that we get one of those guys we get burned.
maybe Von will be an exception, but I am concerned with that history, which has a tendency to repeat itself…
I vote Von if Prince and Quinn are off the board (unless a dif Blue chipper somehow falls of course)
To early to tell what Dez will be.
He has tremendous talent and I love the guy. I just hope he can stay healthy and keep his head where it needs to be. Need to stop with the 1 year evals of players. Th ebig picture is all that matters.
I would of wrote about Quinn
but idk I think he is gone, he is too talented to fall to 9
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 4:29 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry to nitpick, but it is annoying
You use “would of” when you mean “would have” throughout the article and in this comment.
Good content, though!
by doomsdayreturns on Jan 21, 2011 10:59 PM CST up reply actions
So you're basing that on...
a few picks?
I wouldn’t say Terrence Newman was a fail either.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
my whole point with the post is
we have options
dont handcuff yourself to need
other teams do it and failed, some did it and succeeded
its 50 50
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 4:20 PM CST reply actions
I agree, but you can not ignore need and go straight BPA either.
All of the elite teams use BPA + Need. Dallas needs to try that sometime and ignore the shiny toys in the window.
Hey Chia, first a great post as usual. I don’t always agree but you make me have to think about it. Like almost everyone I voted Prince if he is there. If he is gone I would have voted Smith.
cool
see its not about agreeing, its about at least opening up your mind to the other options
thank you
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 5:45 PM CST up reply actions
Tyron Smith not worth 9th pick
Looking at how the Cowboys like their Tackles…
Doug Free | 6’6 334lbs
Sam Young | 6’8 322lbs
Marc Colombo | 6’8 320lbs
Tyron Smith | 6’4 288lbs
I’m not trying to say he’s too small; however, he’s more likely to be drafted for the LT position since his pass blocking and quickness is more useful on that side.
Furthermore, I don’t think he is ready to start at any Tackle position. He’s too susceptible to swim moves, which you can see in the video above. He, also, doesn’t poses that strength to just take a linemen out of the running play. A linebacker, most of the times, a linemen, stoned. He’ll be like Steve Hutchinson is to Adrian Peterson.. a brick wall because he gets stoned at the line.
Tackles the Cowboys...
will most likely have on their draft boards will be…
Gabe Carimi | 6’6 323lbs
Derek Sherrod | 6’6 307lbs
Ben Ijalana | 6’4 320lbs
Anthony Castonzo | 6’7 301lbs
Lee Ziemba | 6’7 304lbs
Demarcus Love | 6’3 314lbs
Orlando Franklin | 6’6 335lbs
Marcus Cannon | 6’5 339lbs
Jake Vermiglio | 6’6 316lbs
I would like, either, Demarcus Love or Marcus Cannon with Jave Vermiglio on our squad without giving up a first round pick.
I would’ve added Ray Dominguez (6’4 325), but I think he’ll end up as a Guard because he’s so much better as a run blocker. As for Nate Solder, he’ll probably be gone in the first round.
ugh
Demarcus Love is not that good imo
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 5:49 PM CST up reply actions
I think your right on D. Love
I think he plays better as a guard then a tackle.
Love is capped as a RT IMO
Possibly a guard. I don’t think he can play the left side.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
He's best fitted for RG
He started at RG and played well. Was moved to RT and played well. Was moved to LT and played well. But he won’t survive against the pass rush of the NFC East as a Tackle.
Live in AR & See Their Games
Not my school being a Native Texan.
Love is pretty far down my Cowboys wish list.
Prefer Sherrod, Carimi, Castonzo. (Late 1st round picks)
Orlando Franklin later round pk (4th or 5th) looks good but will take some time.
Like Cannon as a G.
It’s early…Opinions are subject to change. (Mine too…except about Love). ;-(
Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.
Seriously doubt Franklin there at 4th.
we won’t pick an OL at 9th and by the time we get to our second pick the only OL left are DeMarcus Love, Danny Watkins, Ben Ijalana, Joseph Barksdale and John Moffitt.
I think Sherrod, Carimi, Castonzo, Cannon, Solder, Franklin and the rest will be gone y pick 40.
IF we do not grab an OT early we doom ourselves to having a poor RT for at least another year.
2nd round is the absolute latest we can draft a OT. I would prefer a trade down to mid teens and grab either Sherrod or Carimi and an extra 2nd or 3rd.
I'm all about opportunity.
FS – Draft Brian Lainhart and let him battle for starting job with AOA.
SS – Draft Ahmad Black. I think Sensabaugh will not be resigned.
CB – Draft Prince if possible. If not, then get Rashad Carmichael. Let Newman go.
nice
I like Lainhart late
Black is my dude, I love that guy
alot of nice corners too like Carmichael
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 6:16 PM CST up reply actions
Are they work-a-holics and have leadership?
You know Jason Garrett can respect that. Rashad Carmichael is aggressive and he’ll fight for those interceptions.
Black is
Black was a team captain
Carmichael is really agressive and has amazing speed
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 7:34 PM CST up reply actions
Very intelligent reply chain…pleasure to read fellas. Also, thanks for some extra linemen names for me to check out.
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry
Jeremy Parnell
290 pounds
you might see a change in OL
I dont think Free is 334 pounds either, I get 320
I take Scouts Inc grades on players usually over any other scouting service, and Smith is their highest rated OL
Isnt Hutchinson a Guard?
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 5:49 PM CST up reply actions
doug free is 334? HFS!
now i’m more amazed about his footwork, i always thought he was in the 300-310 range
well
from ESPN FOX Yahoo Cowboys.com I got 320 right now
idk where cwbys is getting 334, please share
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 7:35 PM CST up reply actions
prince is my choice
but after that im torn on jordan and miller, i cant figure out which one of them i like more, id be happy with both, not so much with ingram or smith
Some comparisons
With the little information we have…
Cameron Jordan | 6’4 285lbs | 40Time: 4.85 | DE
Marcus Spears | 6’4 307lbs | 40Time: 5.03 | DE
Igor Olshanksky | 6’5 315lbs | 40Time: 4.99 | DE
Jason Hatcher | 6’5 289lbs | 40Time: 4.88 | DE
Stephen Bowen | 6’5 306lbs | 40Time: 4.99 | DE
Sean Lissemore | 6’3 297lbs | 40Time: 4.79 | DE
Justin Smith | 6’4 268lbs | 40Time: 4.67 | DE
Shawn Merriman | 6’5 272lbs | 40Time: 4.68 | DE
Justin Tuck | 6’5" 265lbs | 40Time: 4.73 | DE
Mario Williams | 6’7 295lbs | 40Time: 4.70 | DE
Tamba Hali | 6’3 275lbs | 40Time: 4.75 | DE
Mathias Kiwanuka | 6’6 266lbs | 40Time: 4.70 | DE
Chris Long | 6’3 272lbs | 40Time: 4.75 | DE
Trent Cole | 6’2 236lbs | 40Time: 4.78 | OLB/DE
Von Miller | 6’2 243lbs | 40Time: 4.56 | OLB
DeMarcus Ware | 6’4 251lbs | 40Time: 4.56 | DE/OLB
Anthony Spencer | 6’3 261lbs | 40Time: 4.70 | DE/OLB
Brandon Williams | 6’2 254lbs | 40Time: 4.81 | OLB
Victor Butler | 6’2 241lbs | 40Time: 4.63 | OLB
Sean Lee | 6’2 236lbs | 40Time: 4.71 | MLB
Jason Williams | 6’1 241lbs | 40Time: 4.52 | OLB
LaMarr Woodley | 6’2 266lbs | 40Time: 4.74 | DE/OLB
Brian Orakpo | 6’3 263lbs | 40Time: 4.63 | DE/OLB
Bobby Carpenter | 6’3 256 | 40Time: 4.65 | OLB
Brian Cushing | 6’3 243lbs | 40Time: 4.64 | OLB
Clay Matthews | 6’3 240lbs | 40Time: 4.62 | OLB
The current playing weight
of Trent Cole is 270, Clay is 255, and Cushing is 260.
Cushing was already accused of steroids, and honestly I don’t think anyone would be surprised if it turns out Clay Matthews is juicing harder than Merriman.
My point being, Von Miller looks tiny. Like, super tiny. This guy is going to need to put on some serious weight by the combine.
Cam Jordan however reportedly carries his weight really well, and I’m hoping for either him or Marcell Darius
2010 Fantasy Football champion for the BTB League on Yahoo!
A few reactions
Obviously balance/agility/strength/technique are all important factors, like you said little info, but…
Surprised Woodley’s not faster
Excited to see more of Lissemore
Mario Williams is a freak…perfect DE for Wade’s 1gap 3-4.
Isn’t Ware heavier or does he simply play THAT strong?
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry
He plays that strong
These are draft day stats for everyone except Justin Smith. I think DeMarcus weighs 260lbs now. Spencer should still be around the same weight.
All I want is this....
Give me those numbers and then talk who is better…
formerly I draft the Cowboys!!!
Yes...I am Ironman....seriously my last name is ironman in German
Knowledge and Skill overcome superstition and Luck-Dawn Patrol
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 21, 2011 9:20 PM CST up reply actions
the Scariest thing cwbys...
People call Mario Williams “a Freak”…..and D-Ware deztroyed him in the Short shuttle and the Vetical leap…..
formerly I draft the Cowboys!!!
Yes...I am Ironman....seriously my last name is ironman in German
Knowledge and Skill overcome superstition and Luck-Dawn Patrol
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 21, 2011 10:05 PM CST up reply actions
So what do we call D-Ware?
The Beast Of The Freaks?
I like it...
You know what would be scary…I was looking at Von MIller’s 40 time which was the same as The Beast of Freaks…..lol…..If he puts up numbers similar to Ware’s, is there still a chance he falls to #9?
formerly I draft the Cowboys!!!
Yes...I am Ironman....seriously my last name is ironman in German
Knowledge and Skill overcome superstition and Luck-Dawn Patrol
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 21, 2011 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
I think so
because I don’t expect his vertical to be 40ish… probably between 29 – 31.
Ironman is going soft on me!
now he is looking at Millers 40 and is getting Ware flashbacks
im telling you bro 2 OLB’s that can pass rush
thats beast status
then Rat doing some damage inside
B
E
A
S
T
S
T
A
T
U
S
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
I still want Prince
I like Von Miller cause he is an Aggie…..
formerly I draft the Cowboys!!!
Yes...I am Ironman....seriously my last name is ironman in German
Knowledge and Skill overcome superstition and Luck-Dawn Patrol
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 21, 2011 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
Are sure you want to give up on Spencer?
As they say, if they’ve done it once, they can do it again….
I voted Cam Jordan
because think that is the most realistic option of happening.
I like Miller, but I think a badass end would help out more than another OLB.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
What if we draft Von Miller?
Then I wouldn’t be surprise to see this starting line-up
DE – Anthony Spencer
NT – Jay Ratliff
DE – Stephen Bowen | Sean Lissemore
LOLB – Von Miller
ILB – Bradie James
ILB – Sean Lee
ROLB – DeMarcus Ware
Anthony Spencer can play as a 3-4 end?
Why? I mean have there been any indications that he would be moved there? Or that he can play there?
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
Spencer comes in at 260 on NFL.
That would be PRETTY light for a 3-4 end. Justin Smith is considered light for a 3-4 end and he has 25 lbs. on Spence.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
25lbs??
Justin Smith | 6’4 268lbs | 40Time: 4.67 | DE
Anthony Spencer | 6’3 261lbs | 40Time: 4.70 | DE/OLB
Very similar
Where do you get those #'s?
Smith is listed at 285 on NFL.
Besides the #’s, though has there been an inkling by anyone that Spencer might move to end? So why would that even be a thought?
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
If there isn't
then I’m the first.
However, to ignore it would be a mistake. Def. Coordinates think about these things all the time and I’m sure it gets tried out in camp. So why not think about it?
Having versatile players is a beautiful thing.
I don't know what Spencer has done...
to make anyone think he could do it though.
I really don’t know where you are getting your #‘s either. I’m pretty positive Smith is pushing between 285-290.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
What about Ratliff
at LOLB? you could put Spears at NT, with Bowers and Lissmore at DE, Backers would be Ware, Lee, Spencer, Ratliff
formerly I draft the Cowboys!!!
Yes...I am Ironman....seriously my last name is ironman in German
Knowledge and Skill overcome superstition and Luck-Dawn Patrol
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 21, 2011 10:17 PM CST up reply actions
You know..
when I first read it I thought you said LOL… haha.. very creative though.
+1
I agree
Jordan would be perfect for us
im preparing myself for Jordan or Miller, I think we will miss out on Prince
and I would love getting Cam Jordan or Miller
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
Prince.
And there is no way you don’t take one of the most sure thing CB’s to ever come into a draft.
Follow me on Twitter
"All we hear is about that defense, they can't stop a nose bleed." - Bart Scott on the Patriots Defense
Well the poll made it seem like he was.
So going based off those options. It’s Prince I’ll take. If not Prince I’d really consider trading down a few picks and take and OL.
Follow me on Twitter
"All we hear is about that defense, they can't stop a nose bleed." - Bart Scott on the Patriots Defense
I'm with taking Prince
but I think the 49ers are going to take him at 7th.
Hopefully they go QB.
I really think that is a possibility so we might be in the clear.
Follow me on Twitter
"All we hear is about that defense, they can't stop a nose bleed." - Bart Scott on the Patriots Defense
if he fall that far...
I think Jerry trades up for him
formerly I draft the Cowboys!!!
Yes...I am Ironman....seriously my last name is ironman in German
Knowledge and Skill overcome superstition and Luck-Dawn Patrol
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 21, 2011 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe
There are other good players though. I’d rather just take a Cam Jordan, Von Miller, or try and trade down.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
so you would take a Cam Jordan or Von Miller
you would be open to that?
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 10:25 PM CST up reply actions
If Von Miller did...
40time = 4.55 – 4.61
Shuttle = 4.10 – 4.25
Vertical = 33 – 30
I say Pass Rusher supreme… take him!
I think that if the pick IS Miller it says what Rob Ryan thinks of Spencer.
Personally I think a dominating DE can elevate the play of Ware and Ratliff more than another OLB.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
great point
whatever Ryan thinks of Almost decides his fate
by Archie Barberio on Jan 22, 2011 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
I should of let Prince out
but there is a chance he can fall to 9
Wes Bunting said, He doesnt even LIKE Prince, here this shit
he has Jimmy Smith from Colorado and Brandon Harris higher than Prince
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
nice folks
nice comments im reading thru the thread right now
great ideas and conversations
keep it up thanks
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 10:24 PM CST reply actions
at least people are reading this
no rec’s but man over 100 people have read this already
thats crazy, think about all the people who come to BTB, but the ones that dont comment, they just read
puts things in a broader perspective, like the article
there are alot of people that visit the site crazy right
by Archie Barberio on Jan 21, 2011 10:28 PM CST reply actions
There are so many numbers posted above I thought I would add a couple more...
Below are 2 former college QBs that you can compare their numbers. Which would you pick?
ATT. Comp. Comp% Yards TDS Ints Rating
375 210 .560 3,637 33 10 107.4
477 287 .602 3,819 36 11 101.1
Both above QBs were drafted in the first round in the same year.
The first QB numbers above belongs to the 2nd overall pick in the 1998 draft
which would make him Ryan Leaf, and the 2nd QB numbers are for the 1st QB
taken that year Peyton Manning.
My point is don’t get caught up in numbers. I believe all players selected in the first round have the physical make up to play in the NFL, but do they have the mental make up to play in the NFL. If the guy can make plays and is mentally strong pick him.
Here is the article: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1012545/index.htm
Both Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf put up impressive numbers last year, but based on the NFL formula for computing quarterback ratings, Leaf had the better season.
Why is that so surprising to you?
Ryan Leaf played in a different system and actually got his team to essentially play for a share of the national championship that year (which they lost to Charles Woodson’s Michigan team). I don’t think it is that surprising that Leaf could have had the better year in college but made for the worse draft pick especially since Leaf was worse in completion percentage, the trait of those numbers you posted that most closely translates to NFL success (completion % is also the reason I wouldn’t touch Ryan Mallett in the draft).
Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels
by Creasy729 on Jan 22, 2011 11:47 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
and who's to say...
The Boys with their new DC can’t get some pressure on the QB with their current players. I believe Ryan is a creative guy, and can get this defense playing well with the players it has with the possible exception of A. Ball.
If you read other Cowboy websites you’ll see that Ryan’s brother Rex was moving his defensive front players around to create different looks for the offense they were playing.
I’m a Buddy hater (old school), but I think if Rob Ryan can get a full training camp this defense will be good. Pass the cool aid.
Put me down for an Oline and a FS with our first 2 picks
What is this?
If you read other Cowboy websites
You mean there are other Cowboys Websites?…….
formerly I draft the Cowboys!!!
Yes...I am Ironman....seriously my last name is ironman in German
Knowledge and Skill overcome superstition and Luck-Dawn Patrol
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 21, 2011 11:17 PM CST up reply actions
I still want Prince....
The man can play any Secondary position…..so regardless you can fill at least one hole with him… Want him at FS? ok jenkins and Newman are you CB’s….Want him @ CB then Newman can move to FS…. SS you say? Newman to FS Scandrick and Jenkins are your CB’s….And that is not Even Throwing in AOA, who is alot like Prince, in that He could play all three positions.
If you Draft Prince then you can draft Oline second and Third Round, then pick up a couple of DL’s 4th and fifth, and use your 6th and 7th for trades……
formerly I draft the Cowboys!!!
Yes...I am Ironman....seriously my last name is ironman in German
Knowledge and Skill overcome superstition and Luck-Dawn Patrol
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 21, 2011 11:12 PM CST reply actions
Chia, what are your thoughts on Quinn?
Still leading the league in smiles
by accidental innuendo on Jan 22, 2011 8:11 AM CST reply actions
beast
if he was there I would take him, but I think he will be gone thats why I didnt mention him
he was the best pass rusher in football last year, college that is
he is blazing fast and has great size
strong and fast
perfect player for us
by Archie Barberio on Jan 22, 2011 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
Thanks
I have a feeling he might be there at 9
Still leading the league in smiles
by accidental innuendo on Jan 23, 2011 8:46 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah I like him too.
I just wonder what would happen to Spencer if that happened. Trade bait possibly?
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
yeah
gotta consider that idea, especially if we can get a 3rd round pick to grab a extra S or OL
or we keep Spencer for 4 man fronts as a DE to stop the run
by Archie Barberio on Jan 23, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
I consider Spencer, Newman, RW, MBIII, and Bigg trade bait.
Martellus as well. If we can turn those guys into a few picks we could really rework this roster. Of course if Ryan can do for Spencer what he did with Gocong he might be worth keeping.
Dallas might get a couple of 4th rounders for all of them, mostly due to Spencer and Bennett...
Why you ask? Here is why:
Marion Barber Running Back 5/20/2008: Signed a seven-year, $45 million contract. The deal contains $16 million guaranteed, including a $12 million signing bonus and a $4 million roster bonus in the third year. 2011: $4.25 million, 2012: $5.75 million, 2013: $6.25 million, 2014: $7 million
Leonard Davis Guard 3/4/2007: Signed a seven-year, $49.6 million contract. The deal contains $18.75 million guaranteed, including a $16 million signing bonus and a $1 million roster bonus in the second year. 2011-2013: $6 million
Terence Newman Defensive Back 5/20/2008: Signed a six-year, $50.2 million contract extension through 2014. The deal contains $22.5 million guaranteed, including a $12 million signing bonus. 2011: $8 million, 2012: $6.016 million, 2013: $7,600,417, 2014: $7.5 million
Roy Williams Wide Receiver 10/19/2008: Signed a six-year, $54 million contract. The deal contains $26.6085 million guaranteed, including a $10 million option bonus in the second year and $2 million of Williams’ 2010 base salary. 2010: $3,452,629 (+ $9.5 million guaranteed option bonus), 2011: $5,109,971, 2012: $6.802 million, 2013: $8.498 million (Voidable Years), 2014: $9 million
Which GM do you think would give up any draft picks for these players?
Now Spencer and Bennett are a different story….I could see maybe a 3rd/4th rounder for either of them,
formerly I draft the Cowboys!!!
Yes...I am Ironman....seriously my last name is ironman in German
Knowledge and Skill overcome superstition and Luck-Dawn Patrol
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 24, 2011 11:24 PM CST up reply actions
I forgot Tnew...
5/20/2008: Signed a six-year, $50.2 million contract extension through 2014. The deal contains $22.5 million guaranteed, including a $12 million signing bonus. 2011: $8 million, 2012: $6.016 million, 2013: $7,600,417, 2014: $7.5 million
formerly I draft the Cowboys!!!
Yes...I am Ironman....seriously my last name is ironman in German
Knowledge and Skill overcome superstition and Luck-Dawn Patrol
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 24, 2011 11:25 PM CST up reply actions
If there was one player I would trade-up for....
its Marcel Dareus.
That is a beast!
due to the demand of Robert Quinn
and I just took him in a mock for us
I will write a Back To Basics:Robert Quinn Edition scouting report for everyone
Quinn might fall to 9, but I doubt it
I am going to write about him tho
by Archie Barberio on Jan 22, 2011 2:54 PM CST reply actions
I did a fanshot
its mockingthedraft.com, a SB Nation fellow blog
I signed up to rep the Cowboys
I chose Quinn and Ingram in the 2nd
by Archie Barberio on Jan 22, 2011 6:49 PM CST up reply actions
I would have preferred..
Muhammad Wilkerson in the 2nd round.
Man, New England in great position to improve.
If this is their real first 3 picks…
Derek Sherrod, OT
Cameron Heyward, DE
Rodney Hudson, OG
They won’t need Logan Mankins and I wouldn’t be surprised if they tagged him and they trade him for picks, like they did with Matt Cassell.
I think New England somewhere in the draft...
has to be thinking WR,RB or OLB.
BG-GE is good but I don’t think he’s someone who scares you and their WR’s are a bunch of #2’s running around.
I love how their offense runs off of the TE’s but they need some guys who can get seperation down field.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
I beg to differ.
With Woodhead’s showing and their WRs specializing in route running, their biggest need is OL, DE and OLB. They get no pressure off their line and they won’t resign Mankins to keep him. Those picks are definitely more likely to end that way.
Really great post, Chia
Like you said, the great thing about #9 is all the options. I also want Prince but if he’s not there, even with a worst case senario we should get a very good player. Would absolutely love Ingram, even tho I know that’s an unpopular pick.
Roger Staubach was the original Captain Comeback......My childhood hero.
Formerly JAHII (actually, I am still JAHII, Retired United States Marine)
Thanks to OCC, Sublimz and others for the avatars!
Stopped reading after you said Earl Thomas was the best safety in the class.
Berry is and was the best safety in that draft, and probably for years. I can’t think of anyone more that I want than Rahim Moore right now, fix our worst position and I’ve had a man crush for way too long now.
Dream scenario
Get Von in first and possibly trade up into the lower half of 1st and grab Moore. ::drool::
didnt Thomas have similar numbers?
Thomas was a very high prospect
by Archie Barberio on Jan 24, 2011 4:51 PM CST up reply actions
Cameron Wake was 1st Team AP OLB
he wasn’t better than Ware — but he came out of college 236 lbs and 6’3. He’s another great OLB player in the same weight class as Von Miller. See also James Harrison.
Came out of college with a much thicker build.as does Harrison.
Miller has been trying to put on weight so far he has actually lost weight.
lol please Jerrah dont trade our whole draft away
I could walk into that war room and give them 3 options for our 9th pick
1-Cameron Jordan DE Cal-I would say look, this guy is a beast, he can rush the passer, stop the run, and is a beast motor like Ratliff, its not a reach and its a safe pick
2-Gabe Carimi RT Wisconsin-Jerry I say, look we need OL help, and Carimi is the best RT in the draft reminding me of Joe Thomas, Jerry we can put this guy at RT and we will have our LT and RT for the next 10 years, very very very safe and smart pick
3-Brandon Harris CB Miami-Jerry I say, this solves the shiny toy pick you covet, we get a CB we need, with amazing upside who can lockdown his side, we can cut Newman and save 4 million dollars, smart safe pick
Thats what I would tell the war room
by Archie Barberio on Jan 25, 2011 9:24 PM CST up reply actions
oh
so if we took Jordan, focus on OL and S your next 3 picks
if we took Carimi, you focus on S defense and 1 guard the rest of the draft
if we took Harris focus on OL and S your next 3 picks
easy as pie Jerrah, LET ME IN THE WAR ROOM JERRY!
by Archie Barberio on Jan 25, 2011 9:25 PM CST up reply actions
PLenty of other options.
Trade back and draft Carimi or Sherrod, then try and get Martez Wilson at 40. Then with our 3rd draft Ras-I Dowling CB Virginia, with 3rd received in trade down take Duenta Williams. 4th rounder take Moffit. Then James Brewer OT Indiana 6-6 323 in the 5th to play OG or swing tackle. Aldrick Robinson WR Southern Methodist in the 6th gives us a small fast WR this team is lacking, 7th round take highest rated player available.

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