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The Psyche of Cowboys Nation and more

A really interesting topic: at times you can see such a wide array of difference of opinion that you kind of get the idea that maybe someone is seeing a totally different team or player... There isn't a single person that's always right or wrong, I've been guilty of being wrong several times (I wanted Bradie James off the team after his 2nd year, thought that Brewster was a good potential pick, I thought that Flo was finished and more), but I'll always defend my opinion.

Which is the basis of blogs like this one, to post, comment and defend your position.

So what's the point of this post? Well, I've been seeing such conflicting differences in point of view that I felt inclined to poke Cowboys Nation and provoke a conversation/discussion about such topics.

Star-divide

So, without further ado, those topics are:

"Dez Bryant was the best Cowboys receiver."

How can someone make such a claim? Because he made more big plays? Is that all? Dez Bryant was the Y receiver in a limited playbook. Sure, the guy made a lot of good plays, but the fact is that he was a very limited player.

On the other hand, Austin played the X, Y and slot positions, and ran every kind of route. And had some really good numbers.

In 2010 the Cowboys had a lot of problems which forced the team to look for ways to increase the amount of 3 and 4 step drops and reduce the amount of long throws. Some of Bryant's big plays came on that kind of plays, 3 or 4 step drops, but throws with a lot of air in them. That's the kind of throw that you can only make if you aren't expecting immediate deep help, which means that the helpers were looking somewhere else and I'm guessing that they weren't looking at Roy...

That, IMO, is the basis for why Miles Austin was the best Cowboys receiver and why he should continue to be for as long as Dez doesn't show that he can handle a bigger role.

What say you, Cowboys Nation?

"Stephen Bowen is a good pass rusher"

There is merit in standing by that position by itself, it isn't backed up by sacks, but the guy can generate pressure and force early throws, but that opinion is often followed with this one:

"A replacement for Anthony Spencer is a bigger need than DE"

My opinion is that they're very similar players, both above average performers in every area of their games, but one guy is considered starting material and the other isn't. And I can't see why.

What say you, Cowboys Nation?

Sure, there are more examples of differences of opinion, but most have been examined to death and I'm not going there (Ratliff to DE (HA!)). But you can look at them in the comments section bellow, a good back and forth would surely follow.

Houck equals Young?

I keep going back and forth on why they're keeping Houck and I can't find many reasons. At first, Free didn't take well to the coaching change, his first training camp under Houck was described by more than one source as bad. Brewster continues to look like guard material (the guy can't run), but strangely the team continues to try him at tackle. And the overall level of play of his unit wasn't that good. It was rather bad, actually.

So, why are they keeping him on the staff (there's even talk that he's going to be promoted)? I think that Garrett is a bright coordinator who has made a series of good calls as a Head Coach, so I don't believe that this is a case of him being stupid or how he's seeing something that isn't there.

There has to be something, and I can only think of someone that's developing under Houck and how the team doesn't want to see what happened with Free under a new line coach.

Could it be that the team already thinks that they have something cooking for the RT position? Could that be Sam Young or are you a Jermey Parnell guy?

Throwing a mock to the wall.

With the 1st pick, I've made myself clear, I want this lineup in 2-4 fronts in the nickel and dime: DLine: Ratliff and Jordan; LBs: Ware, Spencer, Butler and Lee. That's a good lineup for Rob Ryan to play with.

1st Round (9): Cameron Jordan, DE.

With the 2nd pick I want a trade down to the middle to late 2nd, I'm thinking that someone could want to jump up in front of a team (Redskins?) for one of the 2nd Round QBs (Mallet? Ponder? Devlin? Gabbert?). And I say: do it, not for X amount of picks, just change position, the Cowboys 4th Round pick for X team's 3rd Round pick and the Cowboys 5th Round pick for X team's 4th Round pick.

That way the Cowboys end up with a mid to late 2nd Rounder, two 3rd Round picks, one 4th and the rest remains the same.

2nd Round (x): Danny Watkins, OG.

Would you be willing to exchange Watkins and another 3rd Round pick for Ijalana? I wouldn't do it, as I don't think that Watkins will make it to the 3rd Round, he's showing that he can play every inside position along the OLine and start right away.

3rd Round (71): Ahmad Black, SS.

He's indeed small, but with all of the deep cover-2, cover-3, cover-4 and cover-6 that Rob Ryan likes to employ, size is less important than cover skills and this guy has the best cover skills out of any safety prospect in the 3rd Round.

3rd Round (x): Marcus Gilbert, RT.

Want competition for Young and Parnell, here you have a good one (and you would get 4 top 100 players).

4th Round (x): Niles Paul, WR.

Miles Austin is the X receiver, Dez Bryant is the Y and Niles Paul in the slot? I would forget about Roy Williams real quick.

6th Round: Da'Rel Scott, RB.

7th Round: Anthony Sherman, FB.

What say you, Cowboys Nation?

Poll
What say you?
Don't try to analyze me
4 votes
You're wrong!
2 votes
Good mock
33 votes
Bad mock
16 votes
Don't care, I still think about a bridge when I look at the Super Bowl...
14 votes

69 votes | Poll has closed

Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.

Comment 34 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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ohhhhh

I like that mock
really liking the thought of getting a slot WR

Dez is the best WR on the team though, imo off skill set alone

by Archie Barberio on Jan 28, 2011 2:05 PM CST reply actions  

My opinion

Spencer is solid against the run, and has shown the ability to play at a high level, although he didnt this year. I am not impressed with Bowen, or Igor, and do think DE is a bigger need. Also I cant believe the number of people who think/believe AOA is going to be a player. They must have info I dont. I think Davis’s struggles are more about effort than declining skill, although he is not a pro bowl guard regardless but I think still capable of starting. Columbo needs to be replaced, he struggles because of skill and injuries, I could live with that. Safety is also a huge need. Lots of holes!! But you cant replace everybody. I think you need at least a starting DE, S, G, T, for sure. Maybe an ILB, another S, a CB, and depth on both sides of the ball. oh ya and a third receiver. Like I said a lot of holes to fix. This is a big off season.

by Coakey on Jan 28, 2011 2:26 PM CST reply actions  

Lots of stuff in here to think about, and I agree with most of it

But this is the clincher, I couldn’t have said it any better:

(Ratliff to DE (HA!))
I find your thoughts about Houck intriguing, and his work with the young players may indeed have been a factor in keeping him on.

by One.Cool.Customer on Jan 28, 2011 2:51 PM CST reply actions  

Spencer and Bowen

there is a pretty clear distinction between the two imo. Bowen is not considered an every down player, but hes a good pass rusher. Hes easily our best DE at getting to the qb. Against the run, hes not great, certainly not as good as a guy like spears Hes somewhere between a specialist and a regular imo.

Spencer is the opposite. Hes an every down player who is extremely good in run defense, very good in coverage, but his pass rush is a problem. It is not “above average” as you say. You expect more from a 3-4 olb. Outside of his 8 game stretch at the end of 09, he has to be one of the worst starting olbs at getting to the qb.

Good post.

by foyesboys on Jan 28, 2011 3:15 PM CST reply actions  

Rosier glasses

Maybe a couple of players and a full year of JG will help. They will also have a easier schedule including the NFC west, I thought I heard that anyway. The Cowboys went 5-3 with JG, and should have won the Saints game for sure, so thats 6-2. You could argue about the Cards as well. Not bad for a backup Qb and a terrible Defense. Shore up the D a bit,a healthy Romo, JG, 2 or 3 new starters, and a easier schedule, who knows? Worst to first?
Maybe we are a little much on the glass half empty side here? Maybe not?

by Coakey on Jan 28, 2011 3:40 PM CST reply actions  

You can never assume an easier schedule..

…based on the previous seasons. You never who will do what in the off-season. Wouldn’t surprise me at all to see at least Seattle and St. Louis finish w/ winning records in ’11 (San Francisco perhaps as well).

The NFC East has won 11 Super Bowls; oddly none of those have come courtesy of the Eagles.

by gee-roj on Jan 30, 2011 8:11 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

you think butler can move to ILB?

i dont see it and i think james is still a pretty solid player, and IMO when bryant played he was better then miles this year. I love miles but he had some serious issues with catching the ball this year, a lot of drops.i really like the mock though

by demarcus94 on Jan 28, 2011 3:51 PM CST reply actions  

No, the 2-4 is a pass rush scheme under Ryan

He would form his LB corp with 3 of his best pass rushers, his best in coverage and rush 2.

That’s a 4-man rush, but keeps the Defense guessing the direction of the rushers… He would also move the DLineman to further disguise the pressure.

There was even one snap were one of his DLineman (Schaefering) went back in short range coverage, blitzed a CB and rushed with one OLB and ILB…

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Jan 28, 2011 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I like the mock a lot.

My only thing is that I wouldn’t spend so many picks on offense. I wouldn’t pick both a RB and a FB. I would pick one and look for either a CB or a ILB to add some depth to those positions. And, as much as I like Niles Paul’s athleticism, I would almost rather use that 4th round pick for a more direct defensive need (CB or ILB) and then take a later round guy with some real upside at WR like Cecil Shorts or Aldrick Robinson.

Still though, I like the mock overall.

With some tweaks, I would make it look like:

Round 1 – DE Cameron Jordan
Round 2 – OG Danny Watkins
Round 3 – SS Ahmad Black
Round 3 – RT Marcus Gilbert
Round 4 – ILB Nate Irving
Round 6 – WR Aldrick Robinson
Round 7 – CB Josh Thomas

Formerly Cowboyfan729
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Jan 28, 2011 5:08 PM CST reply actions  

+1

WR, RB, FB….? No 4th on a WR

Semper Fi Do or Die

by Jeremiah_24 on Feb 1, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Everyone assumes

extra 2nd or 3rd round picks will be easy to get. I think the exact opposite will be the case. No one is gonna want to part with 2nd and 3rd rounders. Unfortunately, That lets NE (who ought to have to suffer a bit) use their abundance of picks to get folks ahead of time and mess it all up. Like watkins with their low 1st, black and sands with their 2nds, some of the stud LB’s or OL’s left or whatever they want to grab with their 3rds. NE has what everyone else is going to want, and I don’t think they are going to move a bit. Talent all the way to round 4, everyone will be scrambling like the folks in the street after the door flew open on the brinks truck and a money bag fell out and money went everywhere.

by reddmann10 on Jan 28, 2011 5:44 PM CST reply actions  

That's why I think that a trade like this could work

Dallas and the team wanting to jump up would keep exactly the same number of picks, with team X jumping up Y amount of slots to take a QB or someone else, while Dallas jumps up to the 3rd and 4th Rounds, giving their picks in the 4th and 5th.

That’s how the Patriots run things, they prey on despair of Front Offices.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Jan 28, 2011 8:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I still think their drafting is overrated

Tom Brady is the rising tide that lifts all boats for the Pats. He covers for so many bad picks made by the organization. The only other unit of theirs that I would say is good is the O line.

Brady just puts the team on the offensive—making the rest of the team better.

If we could unlock their secret to drafting OL, I would be a happy man. All other positions? No thanks.

Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK

by HudBaby on Jan 29, 2011 1:07 AM CST up reply actions  

their drafting is overrated, but their trades are not...

they have 2 picks in every round. They constantly turn this years picks into better picks next year.

by foyesboys on Jan 29, 2011 1:42 AM CST up reply actions  

How can someone make such a claim? Because he made more big plays? Is that all?

that’s pretty funny. What exactly should we measure a receiver on if it’s not how productive (i.e. big plays) they are? We should judge them based on how frequently they line up as the X,Y, or slot reciever?

No, I’ll go with efficiency (EPA/A)

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=WR

BTW, the NYG were in a similar situation after last year. Nicks was the most efficient WR in 2009 but Smith had the most catches because Smith was targetted the most. Who do you think the NYG best WR was this year?

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jan 28, 2011 6:02 PM CST reply actions  

Not everything can be translated to stats.

Those numbers are like YPA from LCBs and RCBs, as a measurable, those are nice numbers, but LCBs League wide play against number 1 receivers more often than RCBs and as such their numbers tend to be worse.

Hey, you can ask Giants fans, who do they think is the better receiver, a healthy Smith or a healthy Nicks? I’m sure that they missed Smith this past season, even if he was their “worse” receiver…

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Jan 28, 2011 8:17 PM CST up reply actions  

That I know, I’m not saying that they’re the same, just saying that everything can’t be translated to stats.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Jan 28, 2011 9:40 PM CST up reply actions  

stats also don't take into account

the number of INTs when throwing Miles’ way.

1 in the Bears game – Romo throws a high pass that Miles has to go up to get. Its an easy catch but hes hit on his way down and ball pops into Bears’ hands

1 in the Jaguars game – Miles misses a very easy slant catch. One of 3 tipped ball INTs.

1 in the Packers game, when Kitna’s pass was a little short and the defender made a nice INT.

1 in the Eagles game – the ball came in a little fast and high but Austin didn’t get the release he needed too. Probably still should’ve caught it.

1 in the Arizona game. Not a bad throw, but Miles falls down. Result is INT returned for td.

By my count thats 3-5 INTs that can be blamed on Miles. That is way too high for a #1 wr. And thats not including the drops.

I’m not saying I think Miles isn’t a good wr – hes a great wr overall, but he has average hands which hold him back. Dez won’t drop those balls.

by foyesboys on Jan 29, 2011 2:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Are you sure that those interceptions happened just because of Miles hands?

In at least 2 of those passes, the QB had heavy pressure and is my opinion that they rushed their throws to an unsuspecting Miles that would turn to the QB right when the ball was coming to him.

Throwing to an unprepared receiver that hasn’t even finished his route is a bad call on the QB, sure if the ball hits a receiver in his hands, the guy should make the catch, but IMO it isn’t as straight forward. There’s equal blame in both parties.

BTW, in one of those throws, Kitna said something along the lines of him being at fault (rushed the throw) and Austin that it was his fault (hands → catch).

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Jan 29, 2011 10:53 AM CST up reply actions  

my point is that it is debatable about who was the best WR on Dallas.

and I suspect if you had to bet your life savings who will be better next year, which side of the bet to take would be a tough call.

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jan 29, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I’ve never said that Dez has a lot of potential, actually, I really like Dez and I think that if he develops into what he can become he’s going to be a great one.

The problem is that potential is a funny thing, you just have to ask Martellus.

BTW, if an efficiency rating is such a definitive stat, why would someone that make those stats goes out to say something like this line:

Yeah, Roy Williams had the better number, but there’s no question that Miles is the better receiver…

Your thoughts?

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Jan 29, 2011 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

I’ve never said that Dez has a lot of potential

No. But you implied that it wasn’t debatable that Dez was better in 2010.
 

How can someone make such a claim?

I would disagree. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask whether Dez was better last year. It’s not wild and crazy to consider.

In regards to the quote, I don’t know what the context is. From an EPA/A perspective Miles Austin was much better than RW in 2009 and 2010 so I don’t know what efficiency stats said RW was better.

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jan 29, 2011 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

You’re right, I was just looking at their rankings and found that I mixed up stats sites, I quoted the guys in PFF… They also have their way of ranking the level of play of players…

I hadn’t given advancednflstats a long and hard look, found interesting their ranking of Bowen, which is something that I expected and falls in line with this post…

It’s an interesting stat, EPA. I’ll give it deeper look.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Jan 29, 2011 4:58 PM CST up reply actions  

i can tell you it turns up some interesting stuff.

like before last season it suggested that Nicks and Bowe would be good.

It also would have warned Dallas off RW who never really produced a better than average season (from an efficiency perspective). It’s not high on Brandon Marshall or the aging TO either.

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jan 30, 2011 1:24 PM CST up reply actions  

The problem is that potential is a funny thing, you just have to ask Martellus.

The difference being that Dez has shown as a receiver more limping off the field than MArty B has ever shown at any time.

I exaggerate but only slightly

Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/

by Seanrude on Jan 29, 2011 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Hahaha

I was also exaggerating, but there’s meat in this topic.

It’s only a guess, but I think that the receivers coach was fired because of how he treated his receivers, as in he coddled them too much.

A harder guy may be able to extract the potential of Bryant much better.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Jan 29, 2011 5:00 PM CST up reply actions  

maybe bc MartyB has only been a blocker?

MartyB was suspose to be a J.Finley type of player that was a huge threat catching the ball but 3 years later he hasn’t shown enough to be worth a 2nd rd pick imo.
 i rem the draft guru’s scratching there heads when took him in the 2nd rd. he had huge question marks about more then just his pass catching ability

Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth! Garrett & Ryan working as a team should create a physical environment at Valley Ranch that shows up on gameday.

by DCNation73 on Jan 31, 2011 12:57 PM CST up reply actions  

First 4 picks are spectacular,after that you get a little hinky.

Comparing Miles to Dez is like comparing apples to oranges,two different things.And yes,I wonder why they kept Houck,I really hope it is because he has Young about ready to be the starter.IMO Costa will be somebody to be reckoned with soon also. I also would never move Rat,Spears return will help both Spencer and Rat.Send Igor and Hatcher to Houston to be with “Daddy Wade”,have a line-up of Jordan-Rat-Spears with Bowen and Lissemore rotating in.

Cowboys For Life!!!! Win,Lose,or Lose Horribly!!!

by NVCowboy4Life on Jan 29, 2011 3:42 AM CST reply actions  

Yeah, I think that we’re going to see more from Brent, one of the things that I found interesting from seeing Rob Ryan’s D in Cleveland was the rotation along the DLine that he was calling.

This is my guess, I didn’t chart this, but I think that the guy that played the highest amount of snaps came very close to 50-60%. That’s a far cry from the use of the Rat in 80-90% of the snaps…

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Jan 29, 2011 11:00 AM CST up reply actions  

I can buy that Austin was the best WR this year. Dez was a rookie who started

the year hurt and ended it hurt. In between, he made some great plays, and he made rookie mistakes. He came on a bit with Kitna as he learned the play book. RW had a good start to the year when Romo was playing and then vanished after Romo went down. However, being the best is a relative term. I stand by what I said elsewhere; Austin did not have a Pro Bowl year. He was erratic at times and made a LOT of bad plays, so, as usual, I don’t think stats tell it all. He tipped a lot of balls, dropped a lot passes he should have caught, made some absolutely boneheaded plays that cost. He was also virtually invisible for long stretches after Romo got hurt. So, best on the Cowboys? Sure. Best in the league? Dunno about that.

by Fernie67 on Jan 29, 2011 4:28 AM CST reply actions  

i don't see Jordan being a top 10 pick.

i would trade down if that was the direction they wanted to go & it would also leave the option to grab a quality Tackle if he wasn’t there.

Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth! Garrett & Ryan working as a team should create a physical environment at Valley Ranch that shows up on gameday.

by DCNation73 on Jan 31, 2011 12:50 PM CST reply actions  

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