The NFL And Roughing The Passer Calls: Who's Getting Preferential Treatment?
by One.Cool.Customer on Oct 1, 2011 12:30 PM CDT
in Dallas Cowboys General
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PrintEvery week, the NFL generates a couple of storylines that have the media and fans collectively hyperventilating. One of those topics this week was Michael Vick's complaint that he wasn't getting enough roughing the passer calls:
"I felt like I got hit late," Vick said via CSNPhilly.com. "No flag. Broke my hand. That’s it. Trying to protect myself. Didn’t get a flag. And that’s pretty much been the story for the last three weeks. Obviously, at some point, something catastrophic is going to happen, and I broke my hand."
Vick didn't break his hand after all, and later backed off his initial criticism, whereupon the league decided not to fine him about his comments about the officiating. However, it didn't take long for Mike Pereira, former NFL V.P. of Officiating, to jump into the melee and say that Vick should have been fined. Pereira then piled on, calling Vick's complaint a bunch of bull, and said the Eagles were notorious complainers about roughing the passer calls, be it with McNabb or Vick under center.
On Thursday, Pereira then published a list of QBs and the number of Roughing The Passer calls per 100 attempts, which showed Vick close to the top - and Tony Romo at the very bottom! A collective cry of indignation went up in the virtual BTB editorial offices, and yours truly was dispatched from his virtual cubicle to investigate. My report after the jump.
While this post is not strictly about Michael Vick, I can't help but get one more observation in. Long before he injured his non-throwing hand, we noticed in the early games open thread on Sunday that Vick was being repeatedly helped up off the ground by the refs, which is highly unusual all by itself:
| Do the refs regularly help QBs to their feet? Never noticed it before, but I’ve seen it twice with Vick today. |
| by One.Cool.Customer on Sep 25, 2011 3:00 PM EDT |
| that's a negative |
| by KD Drummond on Sep 25, 2011 3:00 PM EDT |
| Yeah, I don't get it... Why just Vick? |
| LDVFootball on Sep 25, 2011 3:01 PM EDT |
| nope But its philly, other than a fictional boxer they don’t have any winners |
| by thebigham on Sep 25, 2011 3:01 PM EDT |
| Probably taking the opportunity to look in his eyes and see if he's still conscious. |
| by Fernie67 on Sep 25, 2011 3:01 PM EDT |
| Only the 'dreamy' ones. The NFL is so obviously trying to keep Vick on the field. |
| jstaubach on Sep 25, 2011 3:01 PM EDT |
This was so out of the ordinary that we can't help but wonder whether perhaps the refs holding Vick's hand squeezed a little too hard?
Roughing The Passer (RTP) in the NFL
ROUGHING THE PASSER: Because the act of passing often puts the quarterback (or any other player attempting a pass) in a position where he is particularly vulnerable to injury, special rules against roughing the passer apply. The Referee has principal responsibility for enforcing these rules. Any physical acts against passers during or just after a pass which, in the Referee’s judgment, are unwarranted by the circumstances of the play will be called as fouls. [Official NFL Rule Book]
This passage is followed by eight further subsections in the official rule book, making this one of the more complex penalties in the NFL.
It's a widely held belief that the likes of Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees get their unfair share of wussy RTP calls, and that other quarterbacks - particularly non-SB winning QBs - get hit all the time and don't get as many calls. Heck, there's even a "Brady rule" in the rule books, and if you've ever watched a Patriots game, you can't have failed to notice that Brady is constantly complaining to the refs about the hits he takes.
And if you're a fan of a team like the Cowboys, you're probably convinced that your undrafted free agent quarterback gets speared, body slammed and stuffed to the ground ALL THE TIME and NEVER gets a call.Think about it. Can you remember a single RTP call in Romo's favor?
Mike Pereira's numbers suggest that that is exactly what is happening, but we wouldn't be doing our due diligence if we didn't look at the numbers ourselves.
Roughing The Passer: The Numbers
Before we go any further, here's an important caveat as we consider the RTP penalties: The numbers in this post are strictly RTP penalties. They are not personal fouls, unnecessary roughness or unsportsmanlike conduct penalties. So if you remember a couple of calls that don't show up in this post, that might still be correct, although they might have been coded as a different type of penalty - or my data may simply be faulty.
The first thing that pops out when you look at the overall RTP numbers is that the officials don't call a lot of RTP penalties at all. Here's how many RTP calls were made in each of the last four years.
| Roughing the passer calls, 2007-2010, Reg. Season | ||||
| Year | 2007 | 2008 | 2009 | 2010 |
| Penalties | 59 | 59 | 69 | 84 |
On average over the last four years, each NFL team got about two RTP calls in its favor. That's not much. So if you're an NFL QB and think you're not getting enough calls, well, booo hooo hooo, get in line. Nobody is getting a lot of calls.
But surely, the Patriots or Colts must get a lot more calls in their favor than other teams, right? Not exactly. Here are all 32 teams ranked by number of RTP penalties called in the last four years.
| Rank | Teams | RTP calls |
| 1 | BUF | 17 |
| 2 | OAK | 14 |
| T3 | ATL, CAR, CHI, MIN, NE | 12 |
| T8 | DET, SF | 11 |
| T10 | NO, STL, TB | 10 |
| T13 | ARI, DEN, GB, JAC | 9 |
| T17 | CIN, NYJ, WAS | 8 |
| T20 | CLE, IND |
7 |
| T22 | HOU, KC, SD, SEA | 6 |
| T26 | MIA, NYG, PIT, TEN | 5 |
| 30 | DAL | 4 |
| T31 | BAL, PHI | 3 |
The Bills and the Raiders lead the table with their rotating staffs at quarterback? At first glance I'd argue that this should put to rest any remaining notion of preferential treatment for star quarterbacks - as measured by RTP penalties. Some other observations:
- The Patriots appear to have a fairly high count, but only eight of those calls were for Brady, two were for Cassel, two for Hoyer.
- The Colts have a close to average seven calls in four years, with three each in '08 and '09, and a single '10 (hat tip to eaglelover1).
- Six different QBs contributed to Oakland's rating, four to Buffalo's.
- Donovan McNabb did not get a single call in his favor in Philly from '07-09, but got three calls in Washington last year. As much as it pains me to write this, the Eagles do have a point here. Not a single call in three years? That's a bit much.
- Michael Vick got three calls in his favor last year. Only Jay Cutler (5), Carson Palmer (4), Drew Brees (4), Sam Bradford (5) and Jason Campbell (4) had more. However, All of these quarterbacks started in more games than Vick in 2010.
- Tony Romo got only one RTP call in the last four years. Kitna has two and Brooks Bollinger got one in his brief and ill-fated play for the Cowboys.
Here's an overview of some of the bigger, still active QB names and the number of RTP calls they've gotten over the last four years.
| Name | Team | RTP calls | Name | Team | RTP calls | Name | Team | RTP calls |
| Jay Cutler | DEN/CHI | 11 | P. Manning | IND | 7 | Favre | GB/NYJ/MIN | 4 |
| Brees | NO | 10 | Orton | CHI/DEN | 6 | Hasselbeck | SEA | 4 |
| Ryan | ATL | 10 | Palmer | CIN | 6 | Roethlisberger | PIT | 4 |
| Fitzpatrick | CIN/BUF | 9 | Rivers | SD | 6 | McNabb | PHI/WAS | 3 |
| Garrard | JAC | 9 | Schaub | HOU | 6 | Vick | PHI | 3 |
| Brady | NE | 8 | Bradford | STL | 5 | Flacco | BAL | 1 |
| Campbell | WAS/OAK | 8 | Cassel | NE/KC | 5 | Romo | DAL | 1 |
| Edwards | BUF/JAC | 8 | Jackson | MIN | 5 | Young | TEN | 1 |
| Hill | SF/DET | 7 | Kitna | DET/DAL | 5 | |||
| Rodgers | GB | 7 | E. Manning | NYG | 4 |
As you look at this list, keep in mind that the number of starts and pass attempts vary significantly between some of the names on the list. Brees and Cutler for example started in all but one of the 64 games over the last four years while others on this list played a lot less.
If anybody has a right to complain, it's Tony Romo. Romo's one call came in the final game of the 2009 season, the 24-0 win over the Eagles:
(2:33) T.Romo pass incomplete deep middle to K.Ogletree. Pass incomplete on deep middle post; incomplete at the Philadelphia 5. PENALTY on PHI-M.Fokou, Roughing the Passer, 15 yards, enforced at PHI 49 - No Play.
That's it. Romo has suffered his share of late hits, spears and body slams, yet got only that one single flag in four years. He didn't even get a flag in his favor when linebacker Willie McGinest hit Romo in the chin with his helmet in the third quarter of the 2008 season opener against the Browns, and opened a large, bloody gash on his chin that required 13 stitches after the game.
Remember how after that game, despite 13 fresh stitches in his chin, Romo stopped on his way home to help an old couple who had trouble with a flat tire?
Vick, with only a bruised hand, didn't even stop to pet a dog after the win over the Giants.
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Maybe an obvious answer here,
All the Refs are dog lovers !!.
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.
Winston Churchill
We Fight On !!,That's The Cowboys Way !!.
Go Cowboys!!
Can we just get the QBs skirts?
Dallas Defense = Cowboys from Hell
The only hit I've had a problem with recently was the non-unnecessary roughness
On the hit on Romo after the false start on the offense in the first Giants game last year.
"Native, I think. And one of the most loyal and knowledgable Cowboys fans on the planet. We also suspect he is a cyborg with a supercomputer brain, and treat him with great respect since we anticipate he will become our supreme overlord someday. Other than that, he’s a really nice guy."
The name has been left off to protect the innocent. Unfortunately the search function still exists.
What? I thought he was an upstanding citizen.
You think you know a guy
"Native, I think. And one of the most loyal and knowledgable Cowboys fans on the planet. We also suspect he is a cyborg with a supercomputer brain, and treat him with great respect since we anticipate he will become our supreme overlord someday. Other than that, he’s a really nice guy."
The name has been left off to protect the innocent. Unfortunately the search function still exists.
i'm still shocked his playing was even a question...broken non throwing hand....ouch...
must really hurt when its not even the hand you hold the ball with….snaps ok..get a padded glove…at least with all his whining we know what his role was in prison….
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Oct 1, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
You have the right to scream, yell, and shout when you are holding a chisel on a rock and somebody is about to hit the top with such force that they might miss and hit your hand instead.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
would be interesting to see the number of penalties called against the boys...
in a somewhat related topic, I really want to see a coach light up the league about its poor officiating this year in general….they would have needed about an hour to watch all the penalties that aren’t being called this year..and thats just for the cowboys…I know the refs are human and can’t catch every single foul, if they did the games would be tooooooo long. However when a couple of misthrown flags can mean the difference in a game and someone going to the playoffs the refs need to be held accountable for it instead of an oops from the league office.
Not to toss around conspiracy issues but it does seem that we get the short end of the stick more frequently than not and this year is no exception. Push off against Mccann in the Jets game, countless holds that aren’t called, even when our player is tackled in front of a ref….come on..something has to give. If I was getting paid as much as Garret i’d stick my head out for a fine to rip em to call the game fair. heck..what would they do to Jerry if he said something?…suspend him?…fine him?
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Oct 1, 2011 12:52 PM CDT reply actions
Nah, we don't nedd a reputation as winers, leave that for SF
JG is still a new
JG is still a new head coach, he’ll learn how to work the officials from the sidelines, all the great ones do
by nineinchnate on Oct 1, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
It's more effective to work them from the podium
Phil Jackson does it, and sports talking heads wet themselves over what a super-genius he is, just the smartest guy in the room. Mike Vick tries it, and he’s a subhuman ravaged through multiple news cycles by the same people for doing the same thing as Phil Jackson, except he actually has the concussion and (what was diagnosed at the time) broken hand.
Mike Vick gets more roughing the QB penalties because he’s in the position to be roughed more frequently. He gets hit more.
If because of his press conference defenders try to lay off him a bit for fear of a flag, or he gets even more roughing the passer penalties, then his comments were effective, no matter the bile that flies his way.
...
What I want to know is does the NFL do anything about non-calls. Each official does receive a “report card” of sorts for each game they officiate. I’ve seen one and it appears that the NFL takes all the calls a particular official made and they review the plays and grade the official on whether they think it was a good call or not. They use these grades to help determine the ‘better’ officials and those often times are the ones they use for the playoffs. Seems like a decent system, except I don’t think there was any area for grading the official on blown non-calls. That holding non-call in Ware was blatantly obvious… so does the NFL say anything to the officials about missing calls?
if the only thing they do is keep em out of the playoffs(maybe lost money for those games)...
whats the incentive to get the plays right?
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Oct 1, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
...
well I would think if you’re an official that is consistantly ranked near the bottom, they would replace you. As in no longer working in the NFL. The ones ranked near the top get playoff games
seen more refs retire than fired.....
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Oct 1, 2011 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
...
I’ve never heard of an official being fired. I’m sure the NFL doesn’t want to make the firing of an official over bad performance a news story for obvious reasons
.
not to mention they probably done fire officials… they just stop assigning them to games
Actually
I think they reassign some bottom of the line officials to chain gang duty. Today, the person working the first down marker could likely be a side judge next season. Outside the NFL, I am sure they recruit officials from the colleges and high schools.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Maybe they need a bigger pool of Zebras
Just like in football if a guys a bust then they don’t have to play (unless theres no other choice).
The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT
If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.
been a call for full time officials in the league for awhile now....
maybe we just need to include more things as reviewable under instant replay….know it would disrupt the flow of the game but i’d rather a call be made correctly than lose a game cuz someone got a penalty on the one yard line and a first and goal due to a misjudgement…
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Oct 1, 2011 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
It would be interesting to get a look inside
the impenetrable walls of the NFL offices, where the officiating is reviewed each week, and teams’ complaints are evaluated.
We often hear about upgrades (including fines) and downgrades of specific infractions once the league office reviews videos that catch infractions that are missed or misinterpreted by the live officials.
I wonder if the Cowboys have gotten any apologies from the league office: “We’re sorry, that hit on Romo should have been called Roughing the Passer.” We don’t ever get to hear about these. All we have are the stats from the game reports.
Kerry Collins should have gotten one last Sunday night. Mine was the only 10-for-10 entry who picked the Colts to knock off the Steelers. They were well on their way until Collins slammed his chinstrap into a Steelers helmet (no flag). With Collins out with a concussion, the Steelers were able to rally in the fourth quarter and win the game.
There are definite inconsistencies, both in RTP and in generic unnecessary roughness penalties. I still can’t understand why Ball’s hit was unnecessary roughness and Landry’s hit on Robinson was good, clean football.
..., Longhorns, and Spurs - all undefeated in 2011-12.
•The Colts have a below average six calls in four years, with three each in ’08 and ’09, and not a single one in ’07 and ’10.
You might want to look at the stats again as Peyton Manning had 2 RTP’s last year against the Eagles
I would love to blow up Texas Stadium... With team still in it
36 plus years of rooting for the Eagles I think are comming to fruition this year.
I am not a FAN.... I am a FANATIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Okay, I'll simply reply to the first of your many comments
The official gamebook shows one RTP in Manning’s favor for that game, the play-by-play database that I use it shows it as an unnecessary roughness penalty.
I’ll trust the gamebook, and have amended the data above.
by One.Cool.Customer on Oct 1, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
RTP is a URP
I would love to blow up Texas Stadium... With team still in it
36 plus years of rooting for the Eagles I think are comming to fruition this year.
I am not a FAN.... I am a FANATIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I overheard someone say the exact same thing in a bar one time.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
•The Colts have a below average six calls in four years, with three each in ’08 and ’09, and not a single one in ’07 and ’10.
You might want to look at the stats again as Peyton Manning had 2 RTP’s last year against the Eagles
I would love to blow up Texas Stadium... With team still in it
36 plus years of rooting for the Eagles I think are comming to fruition this year.
I am not a FAN.... I am a FANATIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!
•The Colts have a below average six calls in four years, with three each in ’08 and ’09, and not a single one in ’07 and ’10.
You might want to look at the stats again as Peyton Manning had 2 RTP’s last year against the Eagles
I would love to blow up Texas Stadium... With team still in it
36 plus years of rooting for the Eagles I think are comming to fruition this year.
I am not a FAN.... I am a FANATIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You might want to look at the stats again as Peyton Manning had 2 RTP’s last year against the Eagles
You might want to look at the stats again as Peyton Manning had 2 RTP’s last year against the Eagles
I would love to blow up Texas Stadium... With team still in it
36 plus years of rooting for the Eagles I think are comming to fruition this year.
I am not a FAN.... I am a FANATIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!
•The Colts have a below average six calls in four years, with three each in ’08 and ’09, and not a single one in ’07 and ’10.
I would love to blow up Texas Stadium... With team still in it
36 plus years of rooting for the Eagles I think are comming to fruition this year.
I am not a FAN.... I am a FANATIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sorry yall.... i slapped em a little too hard.......
his nose is stuck in the keyboard……….no face palm you see, just a O’ Conner back hand .
woman !, don't try to understand em, don't try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
(redskins)= A Tale of 2 owners, bought by Snyder, OWNED by the COWBOYS !
You might have to rethink that " coming to fruition this year " dream err part of your'e sig,
not looking so " dreamy " now.
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.
Winston Churchill
We Fight On !!,That's The Cowboys Way !!.
Go Cowboys!!
by scotscowboyfan on Oct 1, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
hmmmm??
its preseason watch the players individually. igor is garbage!
by yehti on Oct 1, 2011 1:21 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I think he's saying the Colts had 2 RTP vs the Eagles last year
But I’m not sure
"Native, I think. And one of the most loyal and knowledgable Cowboys fans on the planet. We also suspect he is a cyborg with a supercomputer brain, and treat him with great respect since we anticipate he will become our supreme overlord someday. Other than that, he’s a really nice guy."
The name has been left off to protect the innocent. Unfortunately the search function still exists.
i was wondering about that just wasnt sure. lol
might need to see it posted a few more times
its preseason watch the players individually. igor is garbage!
by yehti on Oct 1, 2011 1:23 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Wait a minute
Wait a minute, now… how many RTPs? And against who?
That article by Pereira is absolute garbage. RTP per 100 passing attempts? How about per qb hit or pressure? I think that would have a little more meaning.
Roughing the passer is basically an attempt to eliminate the quarterback.
Why it isn’t being called more often is beyond me. OCC mentioned the first Cowboys vs Giants game and the play where Romo got his collarbone injury is clearly a roughing the passer call. Had Minnesota’s Jared Allen delivered a similar hit to Peyton Manning, flags would be flying everywhere and Allen would be fined. The same would be true if a Houston d-lineman were to flatten Tom Brady.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Wish they could flatten a guy that wants his team to lose !!.
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.
Winston Churchill
We Fight On !!,That's The Cowboys Way !!.
Go Cowboys!!
by scotscowboyfan on Oct 1, 2011 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Jared Allen
I think he get’s away with murder. He hits late and often, wraps up the QB and drives him to the ground. He seems to get away with a lot.
The Boley hit?
explain how that was anywhere near an illegal hit. Didn’t lead with his helmet, took one step before contact, and didn’t drive the QB into the ground. It was a form tackle, the kind they should be teaching in Pop Warner. It was a good clean hit, don’t be sour grapes.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Oct 1, 2011 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions
The end result sucked if you were a Cowboys fan, but it was a clean tackle. Injuries happen in football, and that was a clean hit
Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
needs more data like qb pressure, qb hits, qb throws under duress
and maybe holding calls because some teams may just block better and then some RTP are just completely blatant
i have a feeling when teams play they raiders they get suckered into playing prison-ball and since the raiders arent close to the best pass-blockers often give a lot chances for the opposition to lay into their QB and they take the chance to get payback for a cheap shot/penalty that happened earlier in the game
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Oct 1, 2011 1:29 PM CDT reply actions
Good point in your first paragraph
And you’d think with how poor dallas’ pass blocking has been with romo that he’d have gotten more calls (since he’s getting hit more often obv)
However we can see why cutler is always so mad during games.. Dude gets hit a lot
by 1youngwiz on Oct 1, 2011 1:46 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
on a side note
I went over to BGN and one of ‘m made a cogent point (I’m still shocked), the point is not that Vick receives RTP’s but that they aren’t (always) called when they occur. They aren’t contesting the number of calls in itself.
It made sense to me at the time, but now however, when I see the league numbers, it seems to me that the penalty isn’t called all that much for any QB, and as we all know for sure, Romo sure gets the short end of the stick. I would think though that all QB’s will profit from this bruhaha (?), refs gonna be more alert on it in general.
Are the number of RTP’s for Vick from Falcons and Eagles? If only from the Eagles he should STFU.
Vick’s three RTP’s are all from 2010.
by One.Cool.Customer on Oct 1, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Could be a double edged sword.
On the positive side, it may help if Suh goes off this game.
On the negative side, our defense ranks up there in QB pressures, hits and sacks. They’ve actually got a higher than average chance of drawing a penalty themselves.
We’ve already seen that Ware doesn’t get much love from the officials.
Rabid and luvin' it
The best part of the article-
is knowing you have a virtual editorial office and virtual cubicle. Positively mindbending.
" Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. "
Samuel Beckett
Don't let him fool you.
OCC has a virtual corner office, with a virtual built in bar and a virtual personal secretary. Named Shay.
He is the master of all thing digital. Of course, now I’ll never get the broken armrest on my virtual chair fixed.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
O.C.C. explodes
another myth, fantasy, lie, perpetuated by the biased sports media.
" Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. "
Samuel Beckett
This really irks me
But more than anything, validates what I’ve always known. The NFL seems to have a bias against the Cowboys, and they always have. What makes it even worse is in the abyss of the sucktitude, how many times did we see Roger Goodell puppy-dogging Jerry? He knew who the real leader was. It’s so blatant what the NFL does to the Cowboys, not just the penalties, but on the schedule every year that a flag could be thrown on them.
Who are you? And how did you get in here?
I'm a locksmith..and..I'm a locksmith. -- Frank Drebin.
I think the NFl has had it out for Jerry ever since he signed deals with business outside the regulations of the NFL
pepsi, miller , two that come to mind right off the bat..money that he doesn’t have to share with anyone in the league…..
Good Luck to the 53. Stand with Honor, Play With Pride. Bring It Home
by TruBluToTheCore on Oct 1, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah...
the schedule makers definitely have no love for the Cowboys. We seem to always be on the road for the tougher two teams of every division we face…Vikings & Packers, Colts & Texans, Jets & Patriots and Cardinals & 49’ers.
Hey, let’s throw the Saints at them on Thanksgiving while we’re at it. At least they threw us a bone this season by scheduling the Dolphins on Thanksgiving.
Rabid and luvin' it
Just so you know
those alternate every game. The last time you guys played the Jets and Patriots, they were in Dallas.
In 2003, it was in the Meadowlands and New England.
In 2015 they’ll be playing you guys in Dallas.
The general schedule has been set in stone since 2002
Self-praise is for losers. Be a winner. Stand for something. Always have class, and be humble.
-John Madden
But they're America's Team?
how could anybody have a bias against America’s Team? You’re apparently forgetting the sled ride you had in the 90’s when 4 out of every 5 calls went the Cowboys way. All the Irvin push offs, the Novacek pick plays, the Erik William’s hands to the face. The refs let all that ish go for half a decade. You’re still paying the karmic piper for those years.
Your First Ever Pinstripe Bowl Champions- The Syracuse Orange
by bigbluethruandthru on Oct 1, 2011 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
So...
is the Giants multitude of injuries the last couple seasons karmic payback for that lucky helmet pin catch that led to your Superbowl? Or, maybe all of the crap LT has done on and off the field? Or, maybe it’s for all of the smack Brandon Jacobs has talked?
The Giants have their own fair share of karmic payback to answer for.
Rabid and luvin' it
LOL.
That blows me away your theory is so bad. Sled ride? They were a steam roller in the 90’s.
4 out of 5 calls went their way
I’m sure it seemed that way to the Giants and their fans. The truth is the 90’s Cowboys were a heavily penalized team. They constantly had to overcome it.
Irvin pushing off.
Yes, I’m sure Irvin was the only receiver in the league pushing off.
Erik Willaims hands to the face.
Yes, the Giants obviously had their hands in their pockets at the line of scrimmage. How many QB’s did they knock out in 1986? 8?
To come on here and say something like that would be comical if it wasn’t so pathetic. The poor calls have advanced to the point of shameless. The Jets weren’t called for a single penalty on opening night. Revis was holding on Dez the entire first half without a single call. Williams literally tackled DeMarcus on 3 occasions. A blind man with a stick could have caught at least one of those. Ball gets a personal foul for his hit, but nothing on Landry’s hit which was far worse. Romo gets a broken rib and punctured lung by the crown of the helmet to his ribs. I know you were trying to make a point, but really, epic fail.
Who are you? And how did you get in here?
I'm a locksmith..and..I'm a locksmith. -- Frank Drebin.
by White Wolf on Oct 2, 2011 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm curious
As to the reason Romo gets so few calls. I know he has a really good feel for the pocket. He usually senses pressure well. And I know he doesn’t sit in the pocket and wait to get hit that often. So maybe it is playing style.
I also know that Oakland and Buffalo have had terrible QBs recently. So this is not just a simple science or matter of race like people think it is(Jamarcus Russell and Jason Campbell are both black and QBs of the team with the most calls for whatever that’s worth).
I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.
by returnofswagger on Oct 1, 2011 2:20 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Strobe and Bigham
Am I allowed to talk about the Eagles Michael Vick under One Cool Customer’s terrific post???
Seriously – you two are ridiculous…
You say – don’t write about the Eagles…but now I guess it’s OK?
Nobody said don't write about the Eagles,
the other post was about the Boldest fan .
you decided to use that post to have a rant against the Eagles and jimmy k,wrong post.
this is the correct post as we are discussing RTP calls or lack thereof, clear now?.
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.
Winston Churchill
We Fight On !!,That's The Cowboys Way !!.
Go Cowboys!!
by scotscowboyfan on Oct 1, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
oh and jimmy k is a cool guy,
just needs to come all the way out ( not in a gay way) but as a Cowboys fan.
: )
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.
Winston Churchill
We Fight On !!,That's The Cowboys Way !!.
Go Cowboys!!
by scotscowboyfan on Oct 1, 2011 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions
JimmyK and Rome One
Have mutual respect.
I think he is one of the smartest “NFL” knowledgeable fans on this site period…let alone for an Eagles fan.
He always brings out a fair opinion and adroit insight when discussing players from all teams…
But he is wrong about Nnamdi…and suddenly Nnamdi is looking not so “Shut Down”
Victor Cruz…..wow.
Andy Reid looks for any advantage he can get
He did it with McNabb and now he’s doing it with Vick.
Vick’s real problem is 5 turnovers in ten quarters played this season.
That breaks out to a whopping 32 turnovers over the course of a season.
Crying about the refs is a strategic ploy that with buy them a 15 yard helper or two down the line…but quite frankly, Chris Canty looked like he tried to pull up on the hit and it was bang-bang.
The league chose not to fine Vick because it would look bad after the whole Tony Dungy led Mike Vick reincarnation nonsense tour the Eagles played on their fans and the league.
Fortunately, he is their 100 million dollar problem now…5 turnovers and counting….and a record of 1 and 2.
Dreamy.
On yahoo sports
His stats already show 7 fumbles, thats crazy. Vick is trying to do to much and is getting pounded for it. Exactly as it should be.
The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT
If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.
RTP -
I think these stats are funky…
Vick has received more calls than any other NFC East QB over the last season plus.
He is getting the calls…he is also getting hit a lot…but he also breaks more runs of ten plus yards than any other NFC East QB….so what does he want?
In the grasp called more?
I don’t get it…his is a confused (and demented) mind.
Thank goodness we have Romo….a true QB and leader…
by Rome One on Oct 1, 2011 2:34 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
OT:
Came across this lil gem on a msg board, thought y’all could use a laugh:
CBS.lIONS….ESPN…LIONS…YAHOO SPORTS….LIONS…(10 OF 16 DALLAS ANALYST lIONS) NFL…lIONS Majority do say Lions CHECK UR FACTZ!
FEAR the STAR.
lolwut
"Native, I think. And one of the most loyal and knowledgable Cowboys fans on the planet. We also suspect he is a cyborg with a supercomputer brain, and treat him with great respect since we anticipate he will become our supreme overlord someday. Other than that, he’s a really nice guy."
The name has been left off to protect the innocent. Unfortunately the search function still exists.
Ritalin is a helluva drug, I guess.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
by NobodySpecial on Oct 1, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
College prospect question alert!
What do you guys think about Tyrann Mathieu (LSU)? The dude is always around the ball making plays, but he is small – 5’9", 175! Not sure how he’d play as a pro DB but he sure jumps off the screen. I just wonder how he’ll grade out as a pro prospect since (I hope) we’ll be looking at the secondary come April.
"If something is a sure thing, it requires no faith." - David Allen
by KeyOfZ on Oct 1, 2011 3:11 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Iv'e seen that kid play , looks terrific- Bob Sanders 2.0?.
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.
Winston Churchill
We Fight On !!,That's The Cowboys Way !!.
Go Cowboys!!
by scotscowboyfan on Oct 1, 2011 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Sanders is on IR
again….
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.
by I am Ironman!!! on Oct 1, 2011 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
saw that iron but would'nt you take 3 years of that level of play?.
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.
Winston Churchill
We Fight On !!,That's The Cowboys Way !!.
Go Cowboys!!
by scotscowboyfan on Oct 1, 2011 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Interesting...
Remember how after that game, despite 13 fresh stitches in his chin, Romo stopped on his way home to help an old couple who had trouble with a flat tire?
I remember the flat tire story; didn’t recall that it was after the game. What a guy!
Vick, with only a bruised hand, didn’t even stop to pet a dog after the win over the Giants.
LOL.
DCFanatic posted a link to an interview with Bradie James and Derrick Mason (I’d provide it, but he posts so much content, I can’t find it now). They both said they have the impression that Brady, etc., get more protection from the refs, and they felt Vick was justified in his complaints. Makes this discussion and your post even more interesting. I’ve often felt that Romo gets hit with some cheap shots and rarely gets the call. I really wonder why. Is Joey2zs right that if you simply whine enough, you’ll start getting those flags? One thing we know is that Romo simply doesn’t complain much, certainly not in press conferences. Maybe JG should do it for him?
Fernie - I am just wondering (for you or anyone)
When Vick says stuff like I don’t get the calls the other QB’s get….does anyone sense a underlying racial component to his complaints?
My feeling are Vick is a running weapon unlike any other QB and refs want to give him the full allowance of using his supreme athletic ability to make something out of nothing…which he can routinely do….
So the almost forget blowing the whistle…but I feel when he compares himself to “other” QB’s…someone should ask him exactly who these other QBs are…
If he would name them…would McNabb be at the top of the list? Because McNabb would disagree.
Just wondering.
On Brady
When Vick wins three Super Bowls, is the goodie goodie wonderboy of the league, and is the face of the last dynasty in the NFL…then he may get the same respect….
Jordan got calls…
Wilt never fouled out of a game…..
Gretzky had goons protect him when he went to take a leak….
It is the nature of sports…the Big Man on Campus gets the chick.
Unfortunately Mr. Vick…you are just lucky you are back in the league….
Lead a team somewhere…anywhere…to anything….and then maybe we’ll talk about you and Tom Bling Bling Bling Brady.
MUUUSH?
Fellow Cowboy Faithful,
I have to admit a mighty sin (for lack of a better categorical word) to each and every one of you…
I was IN the country for the Jets game…Ugh!
I was OUT of the country for the Niners and Redskins games…WOO-HOO!!!!!
However, I have returned to the country and will be on American soil at kickoff tomorrow.
I pray that my presence will not deter the mighty Cowboys from outscoring the equally mighty Lions…
Let the game begin!
Just made the long trip from Iowa for my first cowboy game!!!
Anyone know of anything cool to do before the game!? I’m trying to make the most of the experience and I’m looking for any and all suggestions
by missingthe90s on Oct 1, 2011 3:45 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Ps love tailgating so if anyone has anything like that going on let me know!
by missingthe90s on Oct 1, 2011 3:46 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Missingthe90s
That’s awesome!
I have seen six games live when I was young enough…(Cowboys went 3 – 3)
I hope you will be officially 1 – 0 after tomorrow.
I hope you have a wonderful time!
Second that about the wonderful time.
Hope you enjoy your trip to the Death Star.
If you enjoy tailgating, you might just show up early and walk around the parking lot with a six pack of your favorite beverage. Let it be known that you’re a big Cowboys fan and just drove all the way from Iowa for your first game.
I’ll bet someone will share a burger or brat with you.
"Everything is on the One." -- George Clinton, Parliament/Funkadelic
With an improved defense, everything should be on the One.
I need to go there Angus,
planning on next year.
here’s hoping : ) ..
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.
Winston Churchill
We Fight On !!,That's The Cowboys Way !!.
Go Cowboys!!
by scotscowboyfan on Oct 1, 2011 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I will hope with ya, scots . . .
hope you get to come to a game, and hope it’s a good un.
"Everything is on the One." -- George Clinton, Parliament/Funkadelic
With an improved defense, everything should be on the One.
I think Vick is just jealous he doesn't have a rule named after him like Brady
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
What does Vick expect?
No one else runs like him. The league hasn’t caught up with him and is definitely still in transition as to how to perfectly handle the RTP penalty.
Does it suck? Yes
Is it fair to be caught in penalty Limbo because at a glance most refs would eye test his athleticism as that of a Running back instead of a Quarter back? Maybe, but there is nothing he or the league can do about it until they hammer down the consistencies or lack there of for the varying types of QB’s. That, to me is the issue, not how many times someone is called for it.
The Football fan that hates Football fans.
Not to excuse the refs but do you think Romo's quick release and his propensity to hold the ball a little longer to make a play are reasons for the lack of RTP calls?
Jerry, in an interview this week, even alluded to that fact about guys who hold the ball longer not getting the calls.
As far as the quick release, when it looks like a defender is gonna get close to hitting Romo as he throws or soon after, his quick release gets the pass off a couple of ticks early. Therefore, we see the defender hitting Romo long after the ball is gone whereas with any other QB’s release it looks like he barely got it off.
Its the same as DWare’s first step. Its so fast that he looks like he’s offsides when may times its just a ridiculously fast and perfectly timed jump.
I think there's truth to this
Romo doesn’t get calls he probably should get (we’ve all seen them) but for the most part, his desire to make the play often means he sacrifices his body to give the receiver additional fractions of a second to clear.
Don't believe everything you think.
All this new found respect for Romo ( in the media) is a bit annoying,
have said before on here, he is not nor has he ever been " the problem " with this team.
The man is a fighter that won’t quit, sometimes the punches miss but he fights on.
that’s my kind of QB.
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.
Winston Churchill
We Fight On !!,That's The Cowboys Way !!.
Go Cowboys!!
by scotscowboyfan on Oct 1, 2011 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
I don’t actually like the commentary that says “He’s finally getting it”. I can see that he’s matured as QB, but it didn’t just happen all of a sudden in the SF game. He was a much better decision-maker in 2009, and 2010 was looking good (for him) as well. This is a continuation of a long-term process for him.
As far as yelling at guys, it didn’t do any good to yell at Colombo or Bigg. What was he going to say? “Get better knees Marc!!!” “Bigg, stop being so slow off the mark!!!”. It was frustrating, but you can’t “fix” old and slow.
Don't believe everything you think.
You can't fix "OLD AND SLOW!"
Well damn I guess I’m done for then…. someone call for a backhoe and throw me my last beer!!!!
RexP
Yeah, while I like the good press, I agree. I'm also aware, as we know Romo must
be, that it can turn on a dime.
I’m Ron Mexico…I have hairpiece on my head
by PasstheSuper Bowl on Oct 1, 2011 6:42 PM CDT reply actions
ummmm
Random Comment # 6,456,248?
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.
by I am Ironman!!! on Oct 1, 2011 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Apparently Philly is a boxing town
So the refs must have been checking to see if they should call the brawl when they were helping him up, just like the ref in a match will stop the fight. Vick was getting knocked around like Rocky fighting Clubber Lang (Mr. T) for the first time.
"I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle, victorious." –Vince Lombardi
Unless you can control for frequency of passing, speed of release, line play, etc....
it’s hard to get anything from these numbers. Roughing the passer calls come when a guy is close to the QB when he releases the ball. If the O-line does it’s job well (NE), or if the QB gets rid of the ball exceedingly fast (Manning), you don’t see roughing the passers, because no defensive player is going to take a shot when he isn’t close to begin with.
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