The Dallas Cowboys' Anthony Spencer: Refuting The Hate
by Tom Ryle on Nov 27, 2011 7:30 AM CST
in Dallas Cowboys General
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PrintSeeing is believing. That is how the old saying goes.
Funny thing, though. I have worked around law enforcement for a few years, and in that community there is a different take there. Eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable evidence you can get. If you have two witnesses, you invariably get two wildly different versions of what happened. I have seen plenty of examples of this, and it is the only reason I can figure for the ongoing disputes about Anthony Spencer. He had one of the best days of his career on Thanksgiving, and yet the comment threads on the game kept breaking out in vigorous debates on whether his contributions even make him worth keeping, like in this one here about whether a TFL is as good as a sack, or this one that gets into his value overall. Obviously, not everyone is down on Anthony, but there are some who just don't seem to like the guy at all as a Cowboy.
Disclaimer: I have long thought that Anthony Spencer was a good, unselfish player who has specific roles to play in the defense, and the criticism of him has often puzzled me. At worst, he may not be quite as good as a first round draft pick ought to be, but when I look at him either from a statistical viewpoint or using the basic eyeball test, he is playing a very important part in the defense. This was especially clear against the Miami Dolphins, and I thought his performance should have quieted some of the debate. Instead, it seemed to have fanned it into a hotter flame. And it makes me wonder:
Are you guys watching the same player I am?
What I see after the jump. Pictures included!
Let's start with a little statistical info. I was really stunned to see some people making comments about how Spencer needed to be gone right after a game when he was the leading tackler, with eight total tackles, six solo, three for a loss, and one pass defended. Maybe it was the fact that he did not record any sacks or quarterback hits that made so many commenters dismiss his contributions.
This next bit may upset a few, but I figure I might ruffle a feather or two anyway. This is all strictly one guy's opinion, of course, but I feel pretty strongly about it. The intense focus on sacks is just a lack of football sophistication. It is a failure to understand the entire game and judges things in the most simplistic way, making the judgement of the player on the defensive equivalent of a long bomb. Sacks are flashy. They get a lot of attention because they are direct attacks on the true glory position, the quarterback, and therefore they literally are the center of attention when they happen. This is more important than you may think, because something like 99% of all football fans observe the game on their television, and they naturally are locked in on what the camera is locked in on, which is the quarterback when he drops back to pass. The sack is then front and center when it happens. It looks special, and it is a drive killer - but it is not the only thing going on. How many sacks come from the secondary taking away the receivers? And what happens when the sack just barely misses? Say, like when a Tony Romo almost goes down (he got hit seven times, but only sacked once against the Dolphins) but gets off a pass to the best tight end in the game today who converts a key first down, or to a very evasive rookie running back who goes for seventeen or so yards. On back to back plays, no less. Very close to sacks - but I don't see any horseshoes or hand grenades around.
The sack is a big play, but I think in this case, it is overrated as to how important it is in the big picture. Or to be more precise, people see how big the sack is, but don't see how big other plays are. And a defense has to be able to do more than one thing. What good is a five sack performance if the team gives up five touchdowns along the way?
While part of Spencer's job is to get pressure on the quarterback, it is hardly all of his job. He is on the same team as DeMarcus Ware, who will be the primary sack threat for the foreseeable future. Although Rob Ryan does move DWare around, most of the time he is going to be lined up on the blind side, and Spencer is coming from the quarterback's front, which makes him easier to avoid. And sometimes, he just doesn't get as much credit, as in this shot where he is definitely pressuring the quarterback, but because the ball just gets out, he doesn't get credit for anything, although you know Matt Moore had to be aware of how close he was. (I apologize for the blurriness of the pictures. I live in pretty severe rurality, and have to rely on a somewhat shaky wireless connection.)
And don't forget the play in the fourth quarter where he knocked the ball out of Moore's hand. Another one of the great defensive plays in the red zone, and one of the plays that forced Miami to settle for a field goal, which left Dallas with only a two point deficit going down to the wire.
But Anthony also has other responsibilities. And against the Dolphins, he had some plays that certainly showcased how well he can handle those.
In the second quarter, Miami had a 1st and fifteen after a penalty. The Dolphins ran a play with fullback Charles Clay sneaking out of the backfield to the right flat. On this play, Spencer had pass coverage responsibility and picked up Clay.
Here he is dropping back and reading the play.
Here he is, closing in. Notice that Clay has just pulled the ball in and does not have time to put much of a move on the onrushing Spencer.
Payoff. Anthony gets the tackle for a yard loss on the play.
A little later in the same quarter, he had an even better play. In this one, the Dolphins are again trying to get the ball to a back, but this time the target is the much more dangerous Reggie Bush. And this time, Anthony appears to read the play and disengage from his blocker, coming across the formation to make the play.
Here he is engaged in the middle of the line. You can see Bush starting to slide out to take the pass and operate in space where he is so effective.
Anthony has diagnosed the play. He is the only man who is going to be able to stop this thing with Sean Lee tied up just to his right.
Here Anthony has closed in, again before the back can avoid him.
And he wraps Reggie up for a five yard loss. Oh, and on the next play, the ball will go sailing over Moore's head and Dallas will get its first touchdown.
Now, this makes me wonder: Exactly how is dropping a pass receiver for a loss different from dropping the quarterback for a sack behind the line? Other than a hit on the quarterback, this is no different. The loss of the down, putting the opponent in a hole - it has just as big an impact. On the Clay stop, it was just like dropping the quarterback as he steps up into the pocket. On the Bush play, the five yard loss is just like the average sack.
More important, consider that these are parts of Anthony's responsibility. He can't just charge blindly after the passer. He has to keep his head up and read what is happening to react to a running play or a pass near or behind the line of scrimmage. On these two plays, he did his job exceptionally well.
If you haven't quite picked up on my point, it is this: Anthony Spencer contributes a lot more to this team than just rushing the passer. Looking at his sack total and deciding he is not worth having on the team and should be replaced is just not an intelligent way to evaluate him. Sure, he has had games that did not go as well as the Thanksgiving game did, but he is often doing a lot of things that don't show up so clearly. The two pass plays I described showed a remarkable degree of athleticism and football smarts, particularly the one where he tracked down Reggie Bush. And those plays were clearly just as good as a sack, and likely stopped a couple of nice runs after the catch.
So stop before you declare Anthony a bust or just an average player. Take a deeper look. I think he is a very valuable part of this team. Oh, and so does Rob Ryan. Looks like he got that one right.
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Great post
I don’t understand the bashing – everyone has their role in this defense, he fills the “Matt Roth” portion for the Cowboys, and Ware gets the glory.
A consistently pressuring DE would help Spencer immensely IMO
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
"Meanwhile, like a bitter wine, Philadelphia’s jealousy fermented in the dark cellars of pride and resentment. With no playoff hopes of their own, Eagles fans turned towards hating the Cowboys." Steve Sabol, NFL films
I agree totally Tom. He is a solid player who does what he is asked to do.
We have to many holes to fill to throw him away and use a precious high round draft pick for someone who may or may not be as good as he is. I would much rather get a pass rushing DE than to replace Spencer.
Here is a quote from RR from earlier this year that sums it up for me.
Tim MacMahon (ESPNDallas): Maybe in some situations, but I can’t see that happening on a regular basis. Ryan looks at you like you’re stupid when you suggest that Spencer has been a disappointment.
I hear this a lot about our Defensive Ends
3-4 Ends are not designed to rush the passer they are designed to stuff the run and occupy blockers so the linebackers can make plays.
Great post Tom….I agree 100% with you Spencer is a solid player not a flashy player and one of those guys like Tony Fiammetta that make this team better but the stat sheet does not reflect there efforts.
by BWAREofDWARE94 on Nov 27, 2011 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
3-4 Ends are not designed to rush the passer
can we please please please retire this meme already.
OCC just looked at DE pass rushing
Who were the #1 and #8 pass rushing 3-4 DEs? Antonio Smith and JJ Watt in for Wade Philips.
Why weren’t Spears and Igor pass rushers in the same Wade Phillips scheme last year?
It wasn’t the scheme.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
My point being
I see a lot of people looking for a Jared Allen or Dwight Freeney pass rushing end and that is not going to happen with a 3-4…
by BWAREofDWARE94 on Nov 27, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
sure, but you can get Justin Smith.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
Agree w/ TiTaT
3-4 DEs not designed to rush the passer is BULLS%$T!!!
Once and forever, please, please, please get this out of your mind. There isn’t a single coach in football running a 3-4 scheme that thinks this is true. Not one. Find me one and I’ll eat my hat!
3-4 DEs are designed to do different things on different plays. On some plays, their primary responsibility is to take on 2 defenders to free up the LBs to make plays. At other times, it may be to drop back into coverage. Still on others, it may be to shade the outside shoulder of the OT and try and slip by to the outside while the OLB shoots the B gap (the gap between the OG and OT).
Some DEs are better at occupying double teams. Some are better at slipping through double teams (or beating the OT 1 on 1) to get into the backfield. Still others drop into coverage with the best of them.
So, depending on the play called, the responsibility of the DE is different. But is is NEVER to not rush the passer.
by Tyrone Jenkins on Nov 27, 2011 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
Guilty as charged
But there is an argument for such things…
Spencer should get more pressure because so much attention is paid to Ware and Rat.
I would also argue a sack isn’t just about yardage. It is about the intangibles. It is about putting the quarterback on the ground so he hears footsteps in his sleep. A quarterback with a minor injury like a bruise isn’t going to play as well. And really… It is the most demoralizing play an offense can suffer short of a turnover. A sack is definitely… definitely not the same as a tackle for a loss. (though that is a good thing as well)
But you are probably right. My criticism of Spencer has been somewhat based on his draft status.
MacGruber!
I would also argue a sack isn’t just about yardage. It is about the intangibles.
I agree with this. I think the primary effect of a great pass rush is that teams change their game plans to account for it.
What happens when Dallas plays a great pass rushing defense? Everyone says ‘Dallas better run the ball’. When Dallas plays the Giants you don’t want to see Romo dropping back to pass 40 times because he’ll get sacked and possibly hurt. That’s the value of a great pass rush. The offense can’t even call 40 passes.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
Bo
The value of a strong pass rush is to pressure the passer more thus GREATLY affecting his performance on plays he’s pressured, and somewhat on the plays he’s not, depending on how many hits he’s taken.
Id have to argue that his draft status is not the problem
He was drafted cause of his run ability wade needed him and needed him badly to shore up that side of the line and to stop the run first. Gotta look at why he was drafted before you can be upset about how he has lived up to it. He wasn’t drafted to split sacks with ware. Not his number 1 assignment. I do believe that given the opportunity to get after the qb 1st we would see him for what y’all want him for. But again not his 1st priority
by Sado44 on Nov 27, 2011 10:36 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Disagree
The 3-4 outside linebackers are expected to be able to rush the passer. It is their primary duty much like a 3-4 nose tackle better be able to stuff the middle. In this pass silly league that job is a premium. Consider who will be in the playoffs for a second. Most of the contenders have good to great passing games. As a result big play pass rushers go in the 1st round. I would guess not many run stuffing outside linebackers go in the 1st.
You generally try to draft premium pass rushers in the first round because they will not be there later.
MacGruber!
How do you know that?
Did JJ tell you? That is an extreme assumption you have no evidence of.
No not an assumption
This is the style of 3-4 that wade ran its his scheme. Well known he’s been using it for along time. Just look at who he has drafted in that position throughout his years as a DC.
by Sado44 on Nov 28, 2011 3:49 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Here's how I see it
I value pass-rushing:run-defense:coverage in a 3-4 OLB at a ratio of 1:3:5. That is a rough estimation, but my main point is that it’s all about rushing the passer and Spencer is average at that and always has been (outside of one year). Now I don’t know exactly what the Cowboys coaches want from their LOLB, but if you want an average pass-rusher, good run-defender, and ok pass coverage guy, Spencer’s your guy. If the Cowboys were looking for a good pass-rusher when they drafted Spencer, then you have to consider him a disappointing draft pick.
Your ratio is backwards.
As it is, it says you value coverage 5 times more than pass-rushing.
As for your priorities, they sound more like a 4-3 defensive end. Linebackers are meant to be versatile.
My most recent fanpost:
The Weekly Chessmatch: Cowboys @ Eagles
by CotySaxman on Nov 27, 2011 10:08 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think you know what I meant
Even if I got the ratio backwards I clearly say it’s all about rushing the passer.
I’ve based my priorities on what will help the team win: stopping the pass.
That was a note.
I’m contesting your opinions as you intended them. To say that 56%, roughly, of a linebacker’s job is to rush the passer, and only 11% to drop into coverage, while stopping the run occupies the other 33%, creates a horribly unbalanced player.
Rob Ryan relies on versatile players to confuse opponents. How would a player so inept in coverage disguise anything? Even DeMarcus, on the weak side where pass rushing is emphasized, has an equal ability between rushing and run stuffing, being best in the league at both, for his position. Remember the Reggie Bush coverage play? He isn’t too bad dropping back, either. I’d say he’s a 2:2:1 player.
Now consider this. Typically, all the down linemen will rush the passer. Add in Ware on the majority of plays, and you have 4 rushers already. Sending Spencer would make 5, which is a blitz by most definitions. Do you trust the secondary enough to send a blitz on every down? No? Then how much use would your second elite pass rusher be? Not as much as his paycheck might suggest.
My most recent fanpost:
The Weekly Chessmatch: Cowboys @ Eagles
by CotySaxman on Nov 27, 2011 11:35 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
A few things
To say that 56%, roughly, of a linebacker’s job is to rush the passer, and only 11% to drop into coverage, while stopping the run occupies the other 33%, creates a horribly unbalanced player.
No, I’m saying that’s how much I value each of those skills relative to each other, I’m basically saying for a 3-4 OLB I think pass-rushing is very important, run defense they basically just have to be not horrible, and even if they are if they’re good at rushing the passer it doesn’t matter, and I don’t think coverage really matters at all.
Rob Ryan relies on versatile players to confuse opponents
This is true, but more important to defending the pass than creating uncertainty in the QB’s mind as to which players are going to blitz by having linebackers that can blitz and cover (which I don’t think Spencer is very good at anyway) is actually being good at blitzing.
Even DeMarcus, on the weak side where pass rushing is emphasized, has an equal ability between rushing and run stuffing, being best in the league at both, for his position.
Disagree, I think Ware is extremely average against the run, I don’t think he’s anything special against the run.
Remember the Reggie Bush coverage play? He isn’t too bad dropping back, either. I’d say he’s a 2:2:1 player
Disagree, sure, he made one nice play, but Ware will be the first to tell you he’s not adept in coverage, he said so right after last pro-bowl where he wasn’t allowed to blitz.
Do you trust the secondary enough to send a blitz on every down?
A five man blitz hardly leaves the secondary exposed, it’s just as common a play as a 4-man rush in a 3-4.
Then how much use would your second elite pass rusher be?
He would be very useful, why do you think pass-rushers are so sought after in the nfl? It’s called the nfl agreeing with me.
Lol this could take awhile to swype...
1: Okay. So you think that your opinion of skills means more than how often they’re used.
2: You don’t think he can. Many think he can. Prove it?
3: Ware is the best 3-4 outside linebacker against the run from the last rankings I saw…so, no. The best is not extremely average. Haze yourself.
4: Adept and serviceable are two different things. I know he’s not a safety, but he’s not Bradie James, either.
5: Sending 5 allows for cover 1 and man coverage. Do you trust Sensabaugh to play centerfielder alone? Otherwise, a 6 man zone is acceptable, but not for more than 3 seconds. As for being just as common…check the numbers, because that’s not accurate.
6: If we replaced Spencer with a top pass rusher, could we pay him? You would be willing to spend 10 million a year for an extra 4-6 sacks? Philly would. Cole and Babin have clearly put then over the top. Will Pittsburgh re-sign Harrison and Woodley both? Congratulations on betting Roger Goodell to co-sign that.
My most recent fanpost:
The Weekly Chessmatch: Cowboys @ Eagles
by CotySaxman on Nov 28, 2011 12:56 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ok
1. Exactly, what I think and my opinion are the same thing so yes. I don’t think it’s ridiculous to say that pass-rushing is the most important aspect of an 3-4 OLB’s play, I think many, if not most people would agree with me.
2. I don’t know what you’re referring to, please explain.
3. I don’t know what rankings you saw, all I know is PFF thinks above average but not great against from 09-now and JimmyK (I know he is a Cowboys hater) did a piece on how poor Ware was against the run in their victory over us. I will change my opinion to him being above average, but I don’t see any evidence that he’s better than that. Improper use of the word haze?
4. Fair enough, I misinterpreted what you said, he is indeed serviceable in coverage.
5. As long as we don’t do it all the time, yes, I do trust Sensi in centerfield (although I think they’d put Elam back there). Can’t say I know the numbers off the top of my head, but i know for sure the 5-man blitz is more than a change-up and is indeed at least close to the number of 4-man blitzes most 3-4 teams would send.
6. I think we could pay a second pass-rusher, keep in mind its not just the sacks, sacks make up a small percentage of all pressure, there are also the hits and the pressures which greatly affect a QB’s performance. Re Philly I don’t think signing Babin has been the problem, I think that was their LB’s, safetys, and o-line, I mean defense coordinator. Yes, Pittsburgh has already given Woodley and Harrison big contract extensions. I don’t get the Roger Goodell reference.
Shoot!
Rushing 4 is about the least pressure anyone brings on a regular basis.
I get what you are saying, to some degree, but we can’t bring 5 every play or we would get carved up with our Secondary. It makes no difference as to which style of Defense they play (3-4 or 4-3) anything more than a 4 man rush is a blitz.
If we want to Pass Rush to get better, I would look to upgrade the Secondary, as opposed to replacing Spencer. A better Secondary may be what “Almost Anthony” needs to become something more like “Awesome Anthony”. No, I am not saying that he would become a World Beater, but better coverage would give the Pass Rush an extra half second + to get to the QB. . . . . That in and of itself would make our Pass Rush look better.
If Spencer was as deficient in getting to the QB, don’t you think we would see more of Victor Butler?
We all know the Defense is going to need/get some help in next year’s Draft/FA, but we can’t replace everyone. . . . I would imagine the DL and the Secondary get some new young toys. Anything else we can add beyond that would be a luxury.
why was MB3 getting reps over Felix when he was clearly better?
If Spencer was as deficient in getting to the QB, don’t you think we would see more of Victor Butler?
somethings in Dallas changed but somethings stay the same. Jerry wants to see what Spencer can do before they decide to let him walk, trade him, promote Butler or draft a replacement next season.
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
Rob Ryan disagrees.
Reporters have said that Rob looks at anyone that suggests Spencer is a disappointment like they are on drugs. Blaming Spencer’s greater playing time on Jerry is a lame and tired cop-out.
Rabid and luvin' it
by lonewolfz28 on Nov 28, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
I never said bring 5 every play, so on that we agree. I agree the biggest need on the TEAM is CB, I’ve been saying that for ages, while everyone’s been blaming the pass-rush. I agree on that if Butler was so good he’d be getting on the field more, which he isn’t. I agree, Spencer is average to above average and likely won’t be improved upon next year IMO.
the problem is when they need him to be the "2nd elite pass rusher" he doesn't get the job done.
Spencers worth keeping around but i wouldn’t resign him lol. i dont think the dropoff to Butler or a draft pick would hurt them in the running game.
Spencer was drafted higher then his services have shown just like Spears & hows that working out?
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
Your opinion
But I disagree he is what is expected out of him.
by Sado44 on Nov 28, 2011 3:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
And Anthony Spencer
Is performing his duties. Based on where he is lined up, you will not get many sacks at that position unless the quarterback is a left handed QB.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Wrong
Lamarr Woodley, Jason Babin, JPP, Cliff Avril, Charles Johnson.
out of that list
Only woodley is a 3-4 lolb. All of the rest are 4-3 des
by matt575 on Nov 28, 2011 12:36 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Out of that list
All the players don’t come from the QB’s blindside and get good sack numbers.
Comparing 4-3 DEs to 3-4 OLBs isn't a legitimate comparison
How many times do guys like Jared Allen, Dwight Freeney, etc drop into coverage?
Ware is among the top Pass Rushers of All Time and even he drops into coverage every now and again.
Your argument would be more valid if you only spoke about 3-4 OLBs when telling others they are wrong.
I think it's valid
In that it shows they can convert a similiar percentage of their pressures in to sacks not coming from the blindside.
Spencer is getting a bad rap
Coming into this year, I wasn’t sure how much Ryan was going to be able to do with this defense. I thought the main way to see improvement after no significant additions in the draft would be to get Spencer and Jenkins back to playing at their ‘09 levels. These two guys were probably the most villified players on the D last year and everyone wanted them off the team. I think we are seeing that both of these guys are playing much more like ’09 than ’10, and that their improvement coupled with the rise of Lee and some of Ryan’s magic, has brought the Cowboy D back to a level of respectability.
In Jenkins’s case, everyone is begging for him to get back on the field. Part of that is obviously the fact that we don’t have adequate depth at the position but he has done a good job. Spencer, though, is getting a bad rap. Too many fans are down on the sack total and stuck on his draft position and who else the team could have taken at that point in the draft. He may not get 10 sacks in a year, but he’s stout against the run, plays all the games, plays virtually all the snaps and blocks kicks.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Butler get a few of his snaps on obvious passing downs as he seems to have great passing rushing skills, but I’m glad Spencer is here. I hope he can be had at a reasonable price on his next contract and that we focus defensive upgrades on the DL and secondary where the skill level is much lower than LB.
Thanks for bringing up the blocked kicks.
I was focusing on the Miami game, and didn’t include the kick blocking or the strip sack at the end of the first Washington game. But they are also part of my thinking.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
so Tom are you suggesting Jerry should pay Spencer like the 2nd elite pass rusher on the defense?
i get that Spencers doing okay but how much is “okay” worth? if this is all Rob Ryan needs from his 2nd elite pass rusher then that might be why this defense is so streaky
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
While Ware is getting the glory.....
This is what Spencer is doing. Especially with the car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2SUaoVy_iU&feature=share
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
"Meanwhile, like a bitter wine, Philadelphia’s jealousy fermented in the dark cellars of pride and resentment. With no playoff hopes of their own, Eagles fans turned towards hating the Cowboys." Steve Sabol, NFL films
meh
that is what they are. Same as those claiming that a TFL is as good as a sack. Sorry that does not wash. A TFL can be a one yard loss on first down. Trying to say that is as good as a sack on third down is BS. And most sacks are on later downs when the situation is more serious.
That is the problem with all these ‘formulas’. All of them have holes you can drive a truck through. None of them account for even a portion of the variables that make this game.
None of them give a weighted value for EACH O line. Or Each offensive and defensive player. Or coaching. Or playing at home in a place like Seattle or at say Arizona. One is a big home field advantage and the other is not. I could go on but anyone putting a lot of faith in ANY of these formulas is naive at best. Above all else NO one but the COACHING staffs know what each players assignment was on each play. Both their primary responsibility and their secondary; and yes they are required of each player and for each play.
You know there is a REASON that none of these formulas; which have been around for more than a few years, are NOT USED by NFL teams.
As regards Spencer; he is a very good player overall; but sub par for rushing the passer. We need more.
Yes because every sack is a 7 yard loss on 3rd down? Cmon now.
by DavidLaFleur on Nov 27, 2011 9:04 AM CST up reply actions
Also: stops on first and second are pretty important to keep the offense in 3rd and long. What if on both those dump off plays the back picks up 4 yards on first and second. then you are lookin at 3rd and 2. probably not much of an opportunity to get one of your glorious 3rd down sacks when they are running the ball right up the gut.
by DavidLaFleur on Nov 27, 2011 9:06 AM CST up reply actions
Above average is sub par?
Noted.
My most recent fanpost:
The Weekly Chessmatch: Cowboys @ Eagles
by CotySaxman on Nov 27, 2011 10:10 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
You know why arguments are breaking out? Because people are so desperate to defend Spencer that you’re making comments that are false.
A TFL is not basically the same thing as a sack.
I offered several times yesterday to send the data to test whether or not that was true. Zero people took me up on that.
anyway, even though I already knew what the answer was going to be, I went and actually calculated the numbers. Here’s the fact: for the 2010 season the average sack changed the offense’s EPV by (1.43).
The average TFL changed the EPV by (0.40).
Sacks had about 3x-4x the impact that a TFL did.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 9:02 AM CST reply actions
anyway, I shouldn’t have to calculate the numbers. The average sack clearly has a much bigger impact on the game than the average TFL and its not even close.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 9:06 AM CST up reply actions
Confused
So what’s the sack rate lets say per 30 passes a game 3 said sacks a game that a sack every 10 passes. Now add in 5 tackle for losses which means the pass that was completed was for negative yards every 5.4 passes. How can you tell me that you would rather see your Olb get good pressure almost get the qb before he throws does get the hit but the dump off pass is completed and since he wasn’t there ( he was hitting the qb ) now turns into a 8-15 yard play. Doesn’t make sense to say I’d rather see sacks than TFL.
by Sado44 on Nov 27, 2011 10:57 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I also strongly believe in cumulative hits
QBs don’t like to get hit. When you sack a QB multiple times or even hit him multiple times he loses his composure, feels pressure that isn’t there, and generally just plays worse.
Hits don’t have the same effect on a running back, they get tackled every carry anyway. Pressures don’t have the same effect, not getting to the QB doesn’t put fear in him.
Cowboys to the Superbowl
by Blue Eyed Devil on Nov 27, 2011 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
Depends
Now that stat depends on the Quarterback… have seen many that play very well under pressure and others that don’t. I think that Tony plays well under pressure most of the time but sometimes gets a bum pass off when he should have taken the sack… on the other hand if he doesn’t make the pass then he isn’t Tony Romo. I think another great QB under pressure was Rodger Staubach… and so was the great Johnny Unitas and the Snake too. To say in general that pressuring the QB is going to get him flustered then I would have to disagree. To say that some QB’s will fall apart… those qb’s you should be blitzing quickly and with great frequency.
RexP
no offense respects Spencer on passing downs & if i remember correct this is a passing league
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
Simple
The value of each is similar and not to be taken over-all because it just doesn’t make sense. It’s all situational. If the tackle for loss comes on 3rd and 2 and gives us the ball back it’s a great play. If the sack comes on 2nd and 2 it’s for -5 yards then no… it depends on the situation. The TFL is just as critical in forcing the type of play calling that allows for your OLB and DE to tee off and go for the Sack. On first and 10 the playbook is open so players pretty much have to watch for anything and allows the QB to have a host of options. However on 2nd and 12 the playbook is restricted to certain plays and pushes the pass option to the top, where as a 2nd and 4 or 5 would leave the playbook open. The idea is to shut them down on first keeping them in long yardage situations and then on 2nd and 3rd choose your strategy. Rushing the passer and risking blitz or dropping in coverage and containment.
RexP
I don't understand the bashing either
But a sack is not overrated IMO. Especially so in a 3-4 where most of your pressure you generate should be coming from your OLB’s. That’s the best case scenario. Spencer does a lot of things well, but generating pressure on a semi-regular basis is not one of them.
Play Madden and get good. Then play Madden with a buddy standing behind you slapping you hard upside the head every other passing play and see if your focus isn’t tested. Putting actual pain and fear into the equation cannot be underestimated for any task. Those QB hits are critical, and we’re missing them from Spencer.
classic pic!
Matt moore runnign for his life and 93 in hot pursuit.
That look on his face!
I was just going to say the same thing
That picture is money
"I still feel like I have something to offer, and the cynical fan can really kiss my ass. I really don’t care. There’s a bunch of true fans and the people who actually want to take the time to get to know me know who I am. The guy who sits in his mom’s basement and types on his mom’s computer, I couldn’t really care less about." - Chipper Jones
The intense focus on sacks is just a lack of football sophistication
2. there are very good reasons to focus on sacks and it’s not that they lack ‘sophistication’.
Sacks can be misleading because there are so few. But on the other hand, sacks give you more information than just the raw sack count. What do I mean? Now this isn’t every sack but for your one-on-one sacks, the defender has to destroy the OL. So yes you can see good defensive players that don’t get a lot of sacks. But you won’t see the opposite. You will never see an average defender that gets a lot of sacks. Any player that is getting a lot of sacks is one dominate mofo.
to elaborate with an analogy. sacks are like pancake blocks with OL. you could have a good OL that doesn’t get a lot of pancake blocks. But you won’t see average OL pancaking DL on the reg.
you know what this is? Career leaders in sacks. Every one of those players is freaking awesome.
Bruce Smith+
Reggie White+
Kevin Greene
Chris Doleman
Michael Strahan
John Randle+
Richard Dent+
Jason Taylor (36)
Leslie O’Neal
Lawrence Taylor+
the other key point is that stopping the pass is more important than stopping the run.
Seriously. Every great defense is built on rushing the passer. 86’ Bears, 91’ Eagles, Pittsburgh.
I’m with the un-sophisticated folks. They have enough sense to know what wins football games.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 9:27 AM CST reply actions
to add to this, here are the defensive players in the top 20 of the NFL’s greatest players list
LT, Reggie White, Butkus, Lott, Joe Greene, Deacon Jones, Ray Lewis …
notice the perfect overlap between great pass rushers and great players? (deacon jones and joe greene pre-dated sack stats).
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
Fan, you just don't understand football
Just like you didn’t understand the importance of Marion Barber’s pass blocking which made him irreplaceable or how critical Roy Williams was to draw defenses away from our other receivers.
Interesting how the “you don’t know football” argument is used as almost a tactic of last resort to overly hype-up marginal contributions of otherwise under-performing players.
Cowboys to the Superbowl
by Blue Eyed Devil on Nov 27, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
you just don’t understand football
the amazing thing, not just me, basically everyone in football.
the whole football world thinks sacks are a really big deal. it’s a really revolutional to basically claim that ‘sacks aren’t that important’.
I’m all for challenging the conventional wisdom and using stats intelligently, but I pick my spots. Most of the time the conventional wisdom is correct.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
i wonder how there going to handle the Felix & Murray situation.
i wonder if they Felix offers something so valuable they take Murray out the game
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
So,
They have sacks because they’re great and they’re great because they have sacks. That’s helpful.
Put me on the side that says there’s more to it than just sacks and pass rush. All the guys you mention were specialists that played on great defenses. In general a defense can get away with having one specalist and for the Cowboys, that’s Ware.
This!
Let’s grant that sacks are the most important thing. Let’s grant that the most important guy on any defense (the one who will go down in history) is the sack specialist. Now let’s call everyone else on ever defense a bust because he’s not the sack specialist. . .
Oops. See the fallacy there?
Compare apples to apples. See how many sacks other guys are getting who are playing opposite the greatest sack specialists in the NFL. Also, don’t forget to count that “other guy’s” total tackles (including, of course, tackle for loss), a stat that plays a SUPPORTING role because it allows Ware to charge the quarterback without fearing that a simple non-blind-side dump-off into the flat will make Ware’s attempted sack simply futile.
Sacks are still awesome. But Spencer is a good player.
But the two TFL I showed were passing plays.
So on those, the play stopped the pass. So why is that different from a sack, outside of the possibility of affecting the QB play?
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
Because those TFLs were basically the QB just making a bad decision and throwing to someone with no or little chance to get yeards + most TFL’s come on running plays.
Thats not true at all
If Spencer had been rushing the passer then those dump off passes do what. That’s a big gain so when qbs see or feel the blitz there all taught to find the dump off that’s why you hb goes out for the quick dump off. So the TFL is just as successful as Spencer going in and getting the sack on that down. Moving his roll to rush thepasser leaves this hb with a positive yardage play.
by Sado44 on Nov 28, 2011 4:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
So if Spencer's not in the flat
Nobody is? Not necessarily.
I'm going to go with
Spencer is needed in his role as a run stuffer. It’s the same as people complaining about Jay Ratliff not being as good with pressure and sacks when his main duty as NT is to stuff the point of attack. Everything else he does is just bonus. Same with Spencer he’s there to stop the run, if he gets pressures and sacks along the way great! I still think we need another guy who can get sacks but we shouldn’t get rid of Spencer unless someone else shows he’s ready to take on the role Spencer currently holds.
"Deion never played quarterback in the National Football League, so his comments are based off the other side of the ball. If you play my position and criticism can really affect you and hurt you and make you play differently, then you’re only gonna be around for so long anyway. The whole objective is to keep getting better. Keep finding ways to improve, and if your talented enough and good enough, you will lead your team to the Super Bowl. That will happen around here, it will."
by willyoubemycharizard on Nov 27, 2011 9:29 AM CST reply actions
this doesn’t fit with the facts. Look at Houston. Both their OLB are getting sacks. It’s not scheme, it’s Spencer.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 9:31 AM CST up reply actions
Out of context
Wade doesn’t have the personal for his 3-4 system in Houston so he is using DE that main talent is rushing the passer for OLBers. Its working for him cause the talent on there 4-3 line was very very good. Lots of high draft talent there as of late. And there corners are doing an outstanding job forcing qbs to hold ball longer. Keep it in context man.
by Sado44 on Nov 27, 2011 11:06 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Check stats
Reed brooks 5 sacks 27 tackles Conner Barwin 4.5 sacks 24 tackles Mario Williams 5 sacks 11 tackles Anthony Spencer 4 sacks 42 tackles 2 ff. What’s that tell you about Houston’s OLBers compared to Spencer.
by Sado44 on Nov 27, 2011 11:17 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
but thats ignoring
how much spencer impacts the game as a run defender/cover man.
Spencer is VERY good at the above two things. Hes about average as a strong side OLB – 5-7 sacks a year are fairly normal numbers. Lamar Woodley is not the norm.
Spencer is NOT the problem with this defense. He doesn’t make us better than your average 3-4 with respect to pass rushing, but hes not a detriment.
Our DEs meanwhile, could be given 10 seconds to get to the qb and not get there. Our ILBs can’t blitz because James and Brooking are too slow and Lee is too valuable in coverage.
I’m not going to get into this, but we’re watching a different game if you think Spencer is a good cover man. I thought that was a joke at first.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
ok fine
what about the fact that most starting OLBs in this league don’t generate 8+ sacks a year?
What you’re asking for isn’t an above average pass rusher from that position, its an elite one.
The Packers don’t get that production. Aaron Brooks is having a good year for the 9ers, but his career production is right there with Spencer’s.
The only guys that play Strong Side OLB in the 8+ sacks category are Shaun Phillips and Woodley.
what about the fact that most starting OLBs in this league don’t generate 8+ sacks a year?
I totally agree with that.
here’s what I’ve said previously
“I think Spencer is probably average. 6 sacks/season makes him average. That puts him 40-50 in the league. Not terrible but not a matchup nightmare. #93 isn’t a gaping hole but he isn’t a great strength either. he’s satisfactory.
Of course we all want an elite talent to match with Ware….
Anyway, as it, #93 is average. And the DEs are average to below average as well. I’m kinda of mixed about what to do. Most 1st round DL won’t be good pass rushers. Consistent pass rushers are usually elite talents. For example, I’m happy with the route Dallas took resigning Spears at $1M/season and Coleman if the alternative was Cam Jordan or Cam Heyward … because I don’t think Jordan or Heyward give you more than Spears/Coleman does. So I’d just as soon use the draft pick on anything else (that way at least you don’t tie up $ on a lame DL … if you’re going to have average players at least get them cheap).
anyway, Dallas has a lot of average between #93, #98, & #99. And it’s a hard hole to fill since everyone’s looking for pass rushers."
I’m not saying that he’s a gaping hole. But it’s normal to want an elite talent at that position because that’s one thing that could make the defense special in a hurry.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
Only if he was equally good against the run
So uh, we want a DeMarcus Ware to put alongside our DeMarcus Ware… You do have a way with stats. Manipulating them to fit your arguments, and changing contexts when they start to clash…
My most recent fanpost:
The Weekly Chessmatch: Cowboys @ Eagles
by CotySaxman on Nov 27, 2011 11:44 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Just out of curiousity
Would you rather keep the DEs we currently have and add another OLB?
or
Keep the OLBs (Ware and Spencer) we have and add another DE?
i cant see over paying Spencer to stay with Butler on the roster.
i would love to get better DL but the obvious ones will be off the board in the 1st round so i think Jerry/the scouting department has a huge job to find players in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th , 5th, etc rounds of this next draft.
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
I think you meant Ahmad Brooks
"Treat a person as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a person as if he were where he could be and should be, and he will become what he could be and should be." - Jimmy Johnson
by silverblue5 on Nov 27, 2011 11:44 PM CST up reply actions
He should only be expected to cover short patterns like backs in the flat and screen plays.
He’s not supposed to run 20 yards downfield covering a player the whole way. If he ends up doing that the issue is not with him but with the play call. There was a TD given up earlier in the season because Spencer ended up isolated in covering someone downfield. No OLB should be doing that.
He has done a great job in the short passing game though, better than most at reading and reacting to the play. Tom’s examples above are good but there have been many more plays like that made by Spencer this year. Unfortunately they weren’t sacks so no one pays attention, we just take it for granted that the play should be made. How spoiled we are! If we had another pass rush specialist we’d likely find out very quickly how much value Spencer has as teams screen, dump off over and run past the rushing LB again and again.
Then we’ll be saying, “Why can’t he tackle? Why can’t he react to those dump offs?”
by transmogrifier on Nov 28, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
okay so you want to pay Spencer like Woodley?
thats what this boils down to & if Jerry thinks Spencers worth the $ he will want then thers nothing anyone on this blog can change.
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
we know who the football gods favor
Barwin: 3 sacks
Reed: 1 sack
Watt: 2 sacks
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
correction: Barwin: 4 sacks
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 3:44 PM CST up reply actions
Didn't Greg Ellis have a good number of sacks
When he moved from DE to OLB? I’m not getting into the value-of-Spencer debate, but just because Ware is a sack machine doesn’t imply the OLB on the other side can’t get any sacks.
Great Analysis, Thanks.
Spencer had a great game against the Fish; Spencer has played better and better each week this year – or, at least, his trend line on production has been upward and positive. The criticism in the past has been justified, however. Just compare Sean Lee and Spencer in terms of situation awareness at similar points in their careers. Spencer failed to live up to his pedigree; moreover, in years past, Spencer was typically missing plays; how many times could we count Spencer not reading the play and watching a delayed draw or screen go right by him as he gleefully pounced on the fake opportunity to rush into the backfield? Also, note that much of Spencer’s success last week came against Colombo. Yet, you make a good point, he is now producing and now a much more savy player. His trend line is up for sure. Contract year or just the end of a longer learning curve?
Rushing the passer
also greatly helps the secondary and sacks also, I presume, results in fumbles more often than TFL.
Spencer is good
But if Mario Williams is available then I have no problem cutting him loose
Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith
I asked this question yest.
GB and NO are your competition in the NFC.
you need a good pass defense.
what are the things Dallas could do to improve the pass defense?
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 10:15 AM CST reply actions
Elite safety
Better rotation on DL?
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN
Bruce Carter hopefully will help
we need better CB play without a doubt. I think our safeties have actually been ok this year – Elam has drastically improved this defense (accounting for all the injuries).
And we need better pass rushers at DE.
Not as worried
about NO as I am about GB… We need an upgrade of our secondary, cut (Ball) today and get a different cover corner. A good QB will tear him apart… simple as that. I’m ok with New for the rest of the season but we should be looking fast in the draft for a replacement. I would say our #1 need. 2nd we need a big NT (I’m talking about a BEAST 6ft 10" 340 playing the middle with a mean streak like Suh has… but the common sense that he doesn’t have. move RAT to DE… Last but not least a FB … a pounder, a MOOSE upgraded to a Rhino… If they can’t get on the field they can’t beat us throwing the ball! A good offenae can sometimes be your best defense. We do that and we are in the SB the next few years.
RexP
Defensive Wishlist
Dear Santa, please bring us the following talent for next year’s team.
DE/NT – Whichever would be the better fit
CB – We need more talent here (definitely more depth)
S – Both Sensi and Elam are on 1 year deals and I am not convinced both will stay for cheap for another year.
its obvious there DL stinks & then theres Spencer.
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
Be on the lookout for more of Spencer inside rushing the passer.
For several weeks, I have been wondering when Rob Ryan would create a pass rush with Ratliff inside as a defensive tackle, Spencer as the other defensive tackle, as well as Butler and Ware as defensive ends.
Against Miami, I saw Ryan throw out this alignment at least once in a passing situation. He did not bring anyone else: just those four and I remember (I think) Moore getting pressure.
I compare Ryan’s utilization of Spencer in this way, to what the Giants did with Tuck during their run in the playoffs in 2007. I hope to see more of that front four in passing situations.
I see some of the same people that dog cuss Spencer
make excuses for Dez. Consider the source and move along.
Nobody cares about your effin fantasy team, keep it to yourself...........Lock n Load
Interesting dialogue
The pro-Spencer crowd, ‘See?’
Anti- Spencer crowd, ‘Yeah, but.’
Which basically means neither side is going to change the other’s mind. Appears 93 suffers form a couple of perception problems:
- He’s not D Ware
- He’s not as impactful as he should be – being a #1 pick
- When he does make plays, they’re minimized
Have consistently stated DAL biggest problem in the TR-era, where we actually had decent teams and QB play is the uneven distribution of talent – aka ‘Stars & Scrubs.’ #93 is neither and for some reason, that really bothers a lot of fans here. We just replaced 7 Starters this year and are likely to replace as many as 5 next year, without even considering FA losses or key role players. Why make OLB a priority when so many more critical spots loom? There’s a saying I hear all the time in business, ’Don’t let best get in the way of better.’ Because AS isn’t best doesn’t mean we should waste the opportunity to get better elsewhere.
I don't make mistakes...just understandable bad choices
Why make OLB a priority when so many more critical spots loom?
I think the why is clear.
Spencer is the first target of people who want to see the pass defense improved. The OLBs in a 3-4 gets a lot of pass rush opportunities so it’s a huge key to how good the pass defense is.
personally I remember how nasty the D was when Ware and Ellis were getting after the QB.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
Here's two options
- Use the 1st round pick on an OLB whose an upgrade over Spencer then use the $4 million you save by not re-signing him to get a guard, center, or safety. Now you’ve upgraded 2 spots.
- Or pay Spencer and you’ve remained consistent at OLB and taken money you could have spent in free agency to instead give it to Spencer.
I like option 2 a lot better.
Cowboys to the Superbowl
by Blue Eyed Devil on Nov 27, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
me too
go DE and CB and interior OL in the draft.
Replacing Spencer with a first round pick is unlikely to pay off for us imo – Spencer is around league average as a strong side olb, and believe it or not, his play does put him around the first round in that draft (or other drafts). Unless he wants a monster deal, I’d rather keep him around and focus on other needs in the draft.
do you think Spencer will take average $ at OLB?
this is when good organizations let players walk & just keep grinding to replace them
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
IMO, it isn't difficult.
The guy on the coaching staff that I trust the most, Ryan, says Spencer is special. If he says so then I’m willng to go with it. There is no reason to think that Ryan has a secret agenda, that somehow Spencer can play without deserving it. My impression of Ryan is that you can’t fool him for long. The group on the field is the best available at that moment in time.
" Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. "
Samuel Beckett
"There is no cause for concern" Jerry Jones
option 2 makes so much sense
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2011/11/21/2578250/maqb-thanksgiving-edition
this is relevant.
Look at the defensive net pass YPA w/ Ellis: 2007, 2008
and w/o Ellis: 2009, 2010, 2011
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
Just to be clear
You would prioritize OLB over G/C, CB, S because Average to slightly Above Average isn’t good enough? Throw in a back-up TE just to be thorough, not to mention ILB, where B Carter remains an unknown. None of this accounts for FA losses, either.
My point is it’s context – status quo vs greater needs/opportunity cost.
I don't make mistakes...just understandable bad choices
Your using this as a standard
Wade Phillips lost thisteam and it was lossing it at the end of 2009 also
by Sado44 on Nov 28, 2011 5:12 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Good take.
No question this seems to be a polarizing topic among Cowboys fans, probably second right now to Tony Romo after one of his bad games (and sometimes even his decent ones). Cowboys fans do love them their pass rushers! Why not – pass rushing is sexy! Just like home runs in baseball… chicks dig the long ball, right? So do they dig the sack too? Let’s hope so!
Just like the home run though, one – defense that is – can not suffice on sacks alone. I love the emotion of the big sacks as much as anyone, but a game is not decided on 4 or 5 plays. They can certainly be big contributions but only if other areas of defense are covered too. Then the offense needs to do their part, and special teams theirs (thank you Bailey and McBriar!). Like tan says below, the team complement is what makes a win won instead of a loss lost.
The Eagles went all out to beef up their pass rush and brought in the type of free agents many people around these parts want to see in Dallas. How’s that strategy working out for them? Looking at their sack totals, they have 30 – hmm, same as Dallas… and with fewer INTs and forced fumbles to boot. The grass always seems greener on the other side… but sometimes that lush landscape just turns out to be a bad paint job.
by transmogrifier on Nov 28, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Average or casual fan has always thought Spencer was a bust
however theres a lot more to playing OLB in 3-4 than just recording sacks and Spencer is very good in all those other very important areas.
In Romo we Trust
If Spencer hits the open market
there will be plenty of takers.
Nobody cares about your effin fantasy team, keep it to yourself...........Lock n Load
And we'd have to out-bid them all to keep him
I don’t doubt he’s going to get paid. I just don’t want to be the team that pays him.
I mean, Matt freaking Roth is making $3 million in Jacksonville. Spencer should command about $5 million a year.
Cowboys to the Superbowl
by Blue Eyed Devil on Nov 27, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
yup let someone else pay him.
He is not irreplaceable.
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN
hes not irreplacable
but unless we take someone else high in the draft, we are very unlikely to replace his play. And we don’t need another area of concern
I think we should draft OLB/DE, S, G
So yeah I wouldn’t over pay for spencer no way
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN
co-sign
"Treat a person as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a person as if he were where he could be and should be, and he will become what he could be and should be." - Jimmy Johnson
by silverblue5 on Nov 27, 2011 11:45 PM CST up reply actions
the last time i checked Butler was doing well when in the game
with more reps in the game Butler could be outstanding
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
tell us more about this casual fan therory
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
Spencer isn't coming from the blind side 90% of the time.
While Ware is an exceptional talent most, of his sacks come from the QB’s blind side. Spencer is in full view of the QB when he breaks through the blocks. That’s why he’s always a half a second late. He needs to hold his edge, and stuff the run. Once that’s out of the way, by all means, rush the QB.
Who are you? And how did you get in here?
I'm a locksmith..and..I'm a locksmith. -- Frank Drebin.
Kind of an interesting barometer
Anyone remember how much better a player Ware made Ellis? The guy really came on when Ware started to get his groove.
Ellis was an 8 sack player at his peak before Ware came into town and hit 12.5 when Demarcus got hot.
He then went to Oakland and went back down to 7 sacks.
MacGruber!
You build a defense
Off your main talent we have a 15-20 sack a season player so that’s covered right. Now if ware was getting 8-10 yes I’d say we need more from Spencer than stopping the run and getting pressure. But with wares talent the build off of him and Spencer isthe what we needed and need
by Sado44 on Nov 27, 2011 11:24 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Agree
People are changing their tune because of this post,Everyone knows we need to get more pressure on the QB.Ware cannot do it himself. SF,BAL and pitt have more than 1 person who can get to the QB. Also De’s in a 3-4 are suppose to do more than stuff the run.Our De’s are average, period point blank.We need to upgrade next yr.
Respect the greatness that is the Dallas Cowboys
San Fran: Sack Leader Aldon Smith has 8 sacks, Brooks and Smith have 6 and 5 sacks respectfully.
Baltimore: Suggs has 9 sacks and Kruger has 5 no one else has more then 4 period
Pitt: Woodley has 9 sacks no one else has more then 3 … so if you want to compare apples then those are the three apples on the tree…. you just commented on.
Which one would be an upgrade to Spencer please tell me?
Dallas: Ware has 14 and Spencer has 4… and a number of others have 3 I think we are doing fine on Sacks… against the rest of the league
RexP
houston:
Williams (5) / Reed (6) … Barwin (8.5)
Pitt: Woodley has 9 sacks no one else has more then 3
this is just wrong. Harrison missed a bunch of games and still has 5 sacks
but basically you’re saying Spencer is similar to Kruger. that seems about right.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 4:42 PM CST up reply actions
and btw, Harrison and Woodley being consistent pass rushers is a big part of why you see Pitt in SBs … that’s the point.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 4:44 PM CST up reply actions
So what you are saying is
That because two of them post similar number to our one man wrecking crew they are superbowl bound year in and year out??? You are kidding right. Those two factors do not make a Superbowl team. This is like saying the main reason they went to the Superbowl was because of their QB or their RB… that’s all BS. It is a team sport and that’s what makes you a contender. You must have all the pieces in place to get there and then some luck helps too. There were a number of different variables that led to them making the Superbowl last year even though they lost to a better Packers Team.
RexP
That because two of them post similar number to our one man wrecking crew they are superbowl bound year in and year out??? You are kidding right
lets get the facts correct.
this year Harrison missed the first couple games with injury. you can’t compare 6 games from Harrison and 11 games from Woodley with 11 games from Ware and Spencer
2010: Harrison 10.5 / Woodley 10 / Total 20
Ware 15.5 / Spencer 5 / Total 20.5
2009: Harrison 10 / Woodley 13.5 / Total 23.5
Ware 11 / Spencer 6 / Total 17
2008: Harrison 16 / Woodley 11.5 / Total 27.5
Ware 20 / Spencer 1.5 / Total 21.5
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Nov 27, 2011 7:40 PM CST up reply actions
you mean to tell me Pittsburgs LBs are a huge reason of there success?
imagine that in a 3-4 scheme.
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
my bad
Looking at NFL.com stats and missed Harrison but even so he has one more sack and 28 tackles … played in less games Woodley has 9 and Harrison has 5 … Ware has 14 and Spencer has 4 and then again Spencer has 40+ tackles and two FF maybe its just me I just don’t see a big difference between the two. I’m not a fan of Spencer but if I’m looking on the FA market next year for a replacement… I’m asking myself who will be better at that position for the money… and can I get a premier player for that money. I would probably have to say to myself? NO!
RexP
well Lee & Carter will take a lot of those tackels away from the OLBs next season.
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
You didn't mention Houston
In your first post you mention Baltimore, SF, and Pitt … I’m not going to check every team and who their pass rushers are and which ones are OLB or DL or DE because some of them could be coming from different positions. To be clear you would have to Identify the position of each player and then get the stats on all Strong and Weak OLB and see how each compare against each other… use a broader range of stats … and if you really want to get technical about it then you have to look at the competition they faced. If I have Spencer up against some Rookie lineman that got plugged in because the Vet got injured… and Harrison going up against a seasoned pro-bowl vet the stats will get a little skewed. Not everything is written on paper.
RexP
Trust your coaches
Since Rob says Spencer is playing well I’m going to believe my coach and let it go. Just simple as it can get .. they have a better look at the whole picture and know what his assignment was. Let it go at that… if they feel he’s worth 3 or 4 mil a year then offer him what he’s worth and look for other areas of need. I don’t see this as one of the big ones myself.
RexP
So here's the one thing that the pro-Spencer crowd never talks about
$$$$
They say they like him and he’s underrated and he does this and it’s okay that he doesn’t do that. But they never say how much of our precious salary cap they want to guarantee to this player over the next 4 years.
As a guy making $1 million a year still on his rookie contract I don’t have a huge problem with him. He’s been worth what we pay him in our salary cap. But guess what, that rookie contract is done this year and he’s an unrestricted free agent. So instead of spending the money on improving the O-line or the secondary they want to spend it on keeping Spencer.
Cowboys to the Superbowl
by Blue Eyed Devil on Nov 27, 2011 11:29 AM CST reply actions
We are going to have to pay someone for that spot anyway.
The question is do we use it on someone we know is a solid player and thus leave that 1st round pick open to get a top CB to replace Newman. Or potentially get a pass rushing DE to replace say Coleman. Or use our 1st rounder it on a OLB that we hope is as good or better than Spencer.
That seems to be the choice here, CB or OLB
Obviously it’s still a bit early for mock drafts, but the ones I’ve read have CBs and linebackers slipping to the bottom 1/3 of the draft.
I wouldn’t hate getting a CB, that would be fine with me. But I would choose a great OLB.
Cowboys to the Superbowl
by Blue Eyed Devil on Nov 27, 2011 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
But
Help at CB and DE would only help a guy like Spencer achieve better stats.
As it stands currently, we don’t get many coverage sacks. With better coverage and better penetration by the DL, theoretically we would make the current pass rusher better, Ware, Spencer, etc.
Also, with Spencer’s production (to this point of his career) he won’t be able to demand a ridiculous salary.
or just add in Butler + a draft pick?
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
actually Newmans still the best CB on this roster lol
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
I agree on the $$$$
I Think Spencer is a plus, but agree on the point about $$$$. He is well worth his current $$$$ and then some, but it’s a tough call on whether I want to see $5mil tied to him for each of 4 years. If it takes that kind of money to bring him back, I might prefer to spend it on upgrades elsewhere and play Butler or a new face here. Replacement will likely not be as good as Spencer, but will be cheaper and allow the team the $$$$ to fix some other problems.
A replacement could be better
I think I’d rather have Ryan Kerrigan and Aldon Smith who are both rookies this year. There’s also the infamous example of Clay Matthews who was the 26th pick of the 2009 draft.
Cowboys to the Superbowl
by Blue Eyed Devil on Nov 27, 2011 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
ok first
Spencer has been worth far more than what we’re paying him. Hes an above average starter.
But is he worth 5 million? I’m not sure. If we had a normal cap situation and Jerry didn’t spend massive amounts of money on players who immediately underperformed, I’d say yes. But its gonna be hard to resign him in our situation.
5 mil a year for Spencer really isn’t that bad. The 3-4 revolves around its lbers, and hes a good one. I think most teams would want him. Maybe I’m wrong.
not to mention
I feel confident that Spencer will repeat his production and not fall off like many other players Jerry has resigned.
You've made me a believer, Tom. Nice job.
" Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. "
Samuel Beckett
"There is no cause for concern" Jerry Jones
It seems to me that strong side olbs have quite a bit more pass coverage and run contain responsibilities on any given snap than say a weak side olb would.
Anyone have the numbers on how many snaps he has been a rusher as opposed to being i n coverage?
Who is the best strongside pass rusher playing right now, what are his statistics and how does spencer compare?
Dokken - Best band of the 80's without a f!@#$% doubt. George Lynch was the best guitar player of the 80's hands down, the best rhythm section of all 80's bands with jeff pilson and mick brown, and one of the best vocalists of all with Don Dokken. I defy you to find a better f!@#$%^ amalgamation of pure talent.
by Nick Castillo on Nov 27, 2011 12:49 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Clay Matthews is the best in the business
13.5 sacks last year
Rookie Ryan Kerrigan – 6 sacks so far
Rookie Aldon Smith – 7.5 sacks so far
Spencer has never gotten more than 6 sacks in a season
Cowboys to the Superbowl
by Blue Eyed Devil on Nov 27, 2011 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
Why did you use matthews stats from last year? He is nearly identical to spencer this year.
The difference being spencer has one less sack, no ints, but more tackles and one mre ff than matthews.
Dokken - Best band of the 80's without a f!@#$% doubt. George Lynch was the best guitar player of the 80's hands down, the best rhythm section of all 80's bands with jeff pilson and mick brown, and one of the best vocalists of all with Don Dokken. I defy you to find a better f!@#$%^ amalgamation of pure talent.
by Nick Castillo on Nov 27, 2011 1:05 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You got me
Clearly Spencer > Matthews
Best 1st round pick in Cowboys history.
Cowboys to the Superbowl
by Blue Eyed Devil on Nov 27, 2011 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
Dont put words in my mouth…er keyboard friend. We both know that i did not say that. Yet, you avoided the question and I would like to know why.
Dokken - Best band of the 80's without a f!@#$% doubt. George Lynch was the best guitar player of the 80's hands down, the best rhythm section of all 80's bands with jeff pilson and mick brown, and one of the best vocalists of all with Don Dokken. I defy you to find a better f!@#$%^ amalgamation of pure talent.
by Nick Castillo on Nov 27, 2011 1:17 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
If you think Spencer and Matthews are comperable players go ahead
I can’t change you mind.
You asked who the best string-side OLBs were. Didn’t know it would devolve into talk of how Spencer is better than Matthews, I wouldn’t have even responded.
Cowboys to the Superbowl
by Blue Eyed Devil on Nov 27, 2011 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
Where did i ever say spencer was better? Whatever, ill let you win this.
Dokken - Best band of the 80's without a f!@#$% doubt. George Lynch was the best guitar player of the 80's hands down, the best rhythm section of all 80's bands with jeff pilson and mick brown, and one of the best vocalists of all with Don Dokken. I defy you to find a better f!@#$%^ amalgamation of pure talent.
by Nick Castillo on Nov 27, 2011 2:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Pfft. You didn't know?
The entire Packers roster is made up of unquestionable, proven, hall of fame talent. Their horrendous defense and Clay Matthews being a non-factor are irrelevant. You can’t question the cheese, even when some of it stinks…
My most recent fanpost:
The Weekly Chessmatch: Cowboys @ Eagles
by CotySaxman on Nov 28, 2011 12:07 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Best 1st round pick in Cowboys history.
Better than Shante Carver? That is just crazy talk
Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
I would love to show you the finer points to a muay thai clinch whipped knee to the face seanrude
by matt575 on Nov 22, 2011 3:09 AM EST
aren't 2 of these guys
weak side OLBs?
There is a different set of demands for strong side OLBs. Most starting strong side OLBs in this league don’t put up 10+ sacks..in fact only 1 or 2 do. You’re pretty much asking for an elite player when talking about Mathews and Smith in the context of spencer’s position.
Matthews and Kerrigan are strong-side linebackers
I could be mistaken about Aldon Smith.
Cowboys to the Superbowl
by Blue Eyed Devil on Nov 27, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
is mathews a strong side OLB?
I’ve been just going off of nfl.com, maybe they are wrong. I was thinking he rushes way too much to be a strong side olb.
nevermind
I’m totally confusing strong/weak with right/left. I actually don’t know how to analyze these guys now. Ware plays majority over left tackle, but we do move him to the right side sometimes away from the TE. And I don’t know what guys like Matthews and Smith do.
The "strong side" has nothing to do with right/left or what hand the QB throws with.
The strong side is the side the TE and/or FB line up on. It changes from side to side depending on which side the TE and/or FB line up on.
"I'm huunngray. I want some f**ken french tooast!"
Mathews has one more sack than Spencer and – 17 tackles so clearly Spencer is a Mathews by this years standards
by Sado44 on Nov 27, 2011 1:59 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ugh, I'm tired of this argument. Spencer is a good player in a mediocre defense.
He’s not great, but as people point out above, if you don’t keep him, who replaces him? There’s a Cap in place and only so much money.
I’d love another great pass rusher opposite Ware, but if it’s a FA it’ll be too much money, and if it’s a draft pick it’s possible you,
guess what?
miss on the pick and get another Anthony Spencer!! And meanwhile you’re putting a rookie in the prime spot (OLB) in a 3-4 defense.
Team needs on defense:
A more athletic, pass-rushing DE,
Better, faster, game-changing safety;
Upgrade at CB;
Another ILB (I’m not counting on Carter quite yet-besides, you need depth there);
And, yes, a true pass-rushing OLB, but he’d better also be able to play the run as well as Spencer does too-good luck finding a player like that.
I agree Spencer’s not playing like a first round pick, but if you lose him, who do you get that’s an upgrade?
Meanwhile, Safety, ILB, DE, and CB can all be upgraded more easily, in my view, because it’d be easier to find a player who’s an immediate step up from the current player (at ILB, not Lee, but the other spot).
You can’t have an All-Pro at every spot. Stupid Salary Cap.
Just thank the lucky Stars for Sean Lee this year-take that guy out and I think it has a bigger impact than losing Ware would. He’s making this D and Ryan look OK.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, the real question is, is it a good beer? Realist Larry, 2011
7 - 4 = ?
For them that’re silly enough to “people get realistic real fast” brow-beat others on such a trite and simplistic statistical, even numerical, reasoning relative to an individual’s worth. Throwing hissy-fits over such things. Let’s leave the gloaty “me, me, me” goofiness for another time.
Has Spencer lived up to some’s “expectations”, regardless of 1st rounder or 7th? Or 3rd. People can expect and believe many a thing. Don’t make ‘em so. Not by a longshot. Sure’s hell not dealing in reality.
Trouble with many a statistical perspective’s the use and interpretation per pre-biased agenda. Sign it’s there is the assertion by a person in their own narrative, the “I don’t twist the stats to fit my agenda…”. If so, why the
narrative? Got some kinda agenda? Oh, just to let others that ain’t as “smart” as you know what the numbers mean. To guide them along the “right” path of reasoning. Riiight.
It’s foolishly simple. Follow the trail. See that Similarity Scores: Most Similar Players for 2010 here? Then again, following along the path being laid out for ya. And finally you reach the statistical, and professedly unbiased, destination the agenda wants you to “believe”.
Why, why… – it almost makes me wanna strangle a kitten puppy. Result of my self-professed bias for pussy. Pussies? Can’t love one without lovin’ ’em all.
At least some hereabouts that have some smarts, some insight, biased and agendaed as it is despite their claims to the contrary, and bemoan such simplistic twisting of statistics. Though, even they are not above using such sources and suspect tactics and numerology in cherry-picked support of their agendas, as befits their own intent to “inform” and “guide” poor numerically-challenged folk such as I (eye?). And in their own ranting narrative. Oh, excuse me, “reasoning”. Me, I’ll pick which cherry but rather than numbers it’s the tongue twist agenda.
? Answer’s pesky.
Like the numbers, narrative and non-numbskulled independent thinking that’re mainstay of that most difficult, yet most simplistic of three-dimensional, real world balances, Reason.
Just lookin’ for a little Reason in the Season. Even about the season, Past, Present and Future.
When do the Cowboys play next? Gotta get this mouse back on his wheel before then, so this free-wheeling, running loose and banging about from the inside doesn’t make such a racket, such nonsensical noise, like shots richocheting in a steelrubber room. It’s givin’ me a raving, ranting lunacy kinda headache. Then again, might just be a squeaky wheel. Either way, much worse’n yours.
Take 2? Aspirin? Gimmee 3. And shots. Oban, if ya please. A savoured trinity. So here’s to ya, Cowboys. Most especially, cowboys. Every pesky one of ya.
When’s that next Cowboys game?
Puppy-love’s blindness? Ahhh, delusionary self-love. Sounds masturbatory to me, kinda jerk-offy, but to each their own.
When’s Cowboys kick-off? That’s long…
Yep. 3. Pesky. Like them 3 Cowboys’ game parts there. Offensive. Defensive. Special. Team, that is.
One. Like that 3 that made one point difference or the won we gave thanks for? Or like that team that had no control over their fate there because they “allowed” it to be close. One won. Team, that is.
One. Like the player on a team. A team-mate. That helped garner the won one, game and point.
1-2-3 simple. Forwards and back, either way. Team. Player. Indivisible. Two in won (one)? May be. But that Team/Player/Indivisible trinity makes for won, and not just one. And not invisible to some capable of seeing beyond the nuances of the numbers. The nattering of the narrative, especially ones like this. See and think beyond that agendaed reasoning another does, to formulate one. Your own. Right or wrong or, more likely, in-between, in need of outside help, of a team-mate’s help. Even when some make 3 look like 2 look like 1 or 1 like 2 like 3. Twisted. Bar one. For the Win. Who won? One…
Team, mate.
That’s all it takes.
Cry 'Havoc!'
by tanstaafl on Nov 27, 2011 4:17 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
seriously Tan
where does this stuff come from?
rec’d
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Nov 27, 2011 6:01 PM CST up reply actions
Huh?
I’ve called for the code coed breakers. She says she wants her dress back. But by all means, make a point….or two. We all like statistics…when we use them to make our point(s). 38-24-36 sound about right?
If all else fails, maybe this will flush DalaiLuke out.
Who are you? And how did you get in here?
I'm a locksmith..and..I'm a locksmith. -- Frank Drebin.
Naw, she looks to be of legal age...
no matter what country she was in.;^)
Rabid and luvin' it
by lonewolfz28 on Nov 27, 2011 11:11 PM CST up reply actions
still average, greg ellis was a monster in the 3-4, dallas just drafted him too early, normally specialists arent taken in the early rounds(unless you are dallas or oakland)
And a defense has to be able to do more than one thing.
yeah anthony should be able to do something besides stuff the run. after 4 years, he brings it in run defense but leaves something to be desired in all other areas. Inconsistency is the main beef i have with him. He has never appeared as a soild coverage LB, i remember delanie walker toasting him and even last week the skins were flaring screens and stuff right over his head. Then this week he’s closing out reggie bush in space? his “good” games appear more like anomalies as his career continues on.
Anthony Spencer contributes a lot more to this team than just rushing the passer.
if you want to say unable to fulfill the role of consistent solid edge rusher mainly in one-on-ones every play a “contribution”. If the play isnt gift-wrapped for him(like playing head up on Colombo) then it likely wont get delivered by Almost, especially on a consistent basis
lets not beat around the bush and play mind games. We know this defense would be $%^&#* without D-Ware. The man needs more help in the worst way. The rest of the D outside of ratliff, lee, and jenkins are either average at best or average too often showing either no minimal progression into being a impact player you need to focus a gameplan on.
Spencer has not earned clemency from that list of upgradable people on the defense. But he is at the top of the list to earni it. I will also say if a team wants to give him the Canty or Bowen treatment so be it. This team doesnt need to relinquish a big deal for him with how many holes that are on the defense
And yeah Rob Ryan has coached his #$& off and did a ton with less but that doesnt make him perfect nor a Socratean philosopher. I would say he’s more Machiavellian where he says a bunch stuff, so much, that you have so much good stuff to look at that you forget he also said some bad stuff as well
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
I was in Baghdad before these little B.G.'s was in they daddy-bags.
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Nov 27, 2011 4:21 PM CST reply actions
Call me crazy, or maybe a biased Cowboys fan, but....
in a year or two I think that the Cowboys LB’s, with Ware, Lee, Carter, and Spencer, can be the best in the business. Personally, I love Anthony Spencer I don’t know why people hate on him.
Yeah, that was where this all started.
But at least it generated some good discussion, and a classic tanstaafl rant.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
got to love those
classic tanstaafl rant.
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Nov 28, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
In a few years I hope
We don’t have spencer on our team.I would like us to have a very good pash rusher to compliment Ware. I know Spencer is great vs the run and all but Rogers will be the Brady of the NFC for a while and we have no chance of challengin him if we cant rush the passer.
Respect the greatness that is the Dallas Cowboys
Spencer is doing just fine
As others have said, there is a salary cap, and he does what he’s supposed to do. If it’s a big upgrade we need it is at the CB position in my opinion. Having Ball on the field is awful. Still confused why Walker isn’t getting more snaps than Ball. I thought Walker has looked good when he’s been in so far this season. Newman has lost a step, Jenkins is hurt too much, and Scandrick can’t cover everyone out there. We need to go after a good CB in FA or at least draft one in the first round.
Cowboys pride in the Mountain State
The last season and a half, imo, have been really strong for Anthony
The sack numbers arent there, but the pressure has been. There was, and still is, a lot of hype behind the guy, so pair that with who he plays alongside, its pretty clear why those lofty expectations have yet to be met. All i know is, while Dware is the best player we have on D, Sean Lee is the heart and soul. I love how stout our d is becoming. Ready to take care of the cards, and get to the Gnats.
"Wheres my helmet?" -Tony Romo
NO WAY Spencer should be re-signed!
I would not sign him. He ADMITTEDLY talked about taking plays off and now he’s talking about the contract being the thing that motivates him? Most great players play for championships and because of the love of the game. I bet once he gets his money he will revert to the lazy, disinterested player he’s been most of time he’s been in the NFL. Wasted first round pick. He’s more like a 4th rounder.
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