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Around SBN: NFL Safety Ryan Clark's Motivational Workout

Playing Second Fiddle

For those of you born in the 1980's or later, forgive me for leading with an idiom that you may not be familiar with. You see, the phrase was used quite a bit "in the old days" to refer to someone who took a back seat or lesser role to someone else. If you're in your 20's, think of it as the way Leonard allows Sheldon to dominate most conversations on the Big Bang Theory. Okay, I jest...a little. Actually, playing second fiddle is a way of describing how two people can work together for the betterment of the larger group with one taking the lead and one taking a secondary role. Think of it as Hillary Clinton agreeing to serve as Obama's Secretary of State after she, herself, vied for the office of the President.  

As a general context, the Dallas Cowboys offense has been a moribund group for some time now. I can say that because I look at one quantitative value to determine how an offense performs relative to its peers. No, it's not Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt or any sort of multi-variable statistic that require a paragraph to describe and the inevitable subsequent posts to explain why it isn't predictive of wins and losses.

I look at points scored. I then compare them to their peers, that is, other teams. After all, isn't that the raison d'être for an offense?

Star-divide

I'm a simple guy. I'm not Ivy League-educated and probably not as smart as Ryan Fitzpatrick and I don't fully understand Stephen Hawking's Black Hole Theory (Lisa Randall's ideas are much cooler anyway). The degree of utter simplicity that I choose as my measuring stick may set us back a few statistical epochs and create fervor over why it doesn't tell the complete story of how an offense truly performs. To that end, I must concede that it's entirely plausible that the New York Jets offense isn't geared to be as explosive as the one the New Orleans Saints send out on the field every Sunday. However, what cannot be argued is that every time the Jets get the ball, they want to accomplish the same thing the Saints (and Packers and Rams...and Cowboys) want. They want to score a touchdown. Each time. Every time. The WAY they get there may be different, but the desired outcomes are always the same. The more they score, the easier they make the game for their defense and special teams.  Points...scored. For me, that's all I need.

It's been since the 2007 season that Dallas has fielded a top 5 offense in terms of points scored. 2007!

  • In 2007, Dallas scored a whopping 28.4 points per game and was #2 in the league in that category. They scored over 30 points an astounding eight times!
  • In 2008, they fell off of the table and scored 22.6 per game and were 18th. They scored over 30 only four times.
  • In 2009, they fared no different, averaging 22.6 points per game (but made the playoffs largely on the strength of the defense being the 2nd stingiest in the league) and finished 14th. They scored over scored over 30 four times.
  • In 2010, Dallas actually improved their output to 24.6 per game and ranked a laudable 7th in the NFL. However, they broke 30 only five times.
  • Thus far in 2011, Dallas has returned to its TD-starved ways and is averaging 22.4 points per game. They've scored over 30 in just two of their eight games.

Average those rankings out over the past three and a half seasons and Dallas is a pedestrian 14th in the NFL in scoring rank over that span. Take a moment to take that all in. That is 14th in the NFL with a cast of characters that includes Felix Jones, Miles Austin, Jason Witten and Tony Romo. Not good.

Up until a few games into this season, the one word we could use to describe Dallas under Jason Garrett's play-calling leadership has been ‘aggressive'. Garrett has brought a pass-first, pass-often mentality to Dallas and the team's point-scoring fortunes have been largely linked to how Tony Romo has played.  At times, that has been both a blessing and a curse.

But now the tide may be turning. The emergence of DeMarco Murray at the running back spot as a true every-down, do-it-all kind of back may be the thing that changes Dallas' offensive fortunes. It stands to reason that, if Adrian Peterson played for the Dallas Cowboys, Tony Romo would be asked to do less. But what if that decrease in workload turned out to be what made Romo a winner? We saw what happened to John Elway without a running game and then what happened when he handed the keys to Terrell Davis. We saw how Brett Favre needed Ahman Green to carry the load and how that finally made Favre a winner. And, forgive me for invoking the name of legends, but we know the roles that Aikman and Emmitt played in their offenses.

What if we were to find out too late that the silver bullet for the Dallas Cowboys offense was simply to have Tony play second fiddle to the running game led by Murray, who's drawing comparisons to Peterson more and more every game? Surely that would open up the deep middle on play action. It's a given that, with safeties having to come down into the box, the over-the-top sideline routes to Bryant, Robinson and Austin would have less deep help to contend with. Another thing about running the football? It keeps your defense off of the field, and, more important, it keeps guys like Stafford, Sanchez and Brady off of the field. It's highly plausible that a running game like we've seen since Murray has become the starter could have dramatically altered the play calling (and thus, the outcome) of three of our four losses to date. 

It's not about Romo becoming a "bus driver" or a "game manager". I despise those terms because they seem to carry with them some connotation that the QB's who aren't throwing the ball 65% of the time are less worthy of their position or that they're not as good as those who are. It's like saying Troy Aikman was any less of a great passer than Steve Young just because the play calls were more balanced in Dallas than in San Francisco. I reject those notions out of hand. One of those football clichés is that a good running game is every quarterback's best friend. Why should it be different for Tony?

In addition, the idea of having a legitimate running game to complement a potentially dynamic passing attack makes the offense significantly better because it creates unpredictability, and THAT is an opposing Defensive Coordinator's worst nightmare. 

The one thing we don't want to talk about, the elephant in the room, is the egos involved with this sort of sea change in approach. I'm not worried about Romo. He appears to me as the kind of leader who will do whatever he needs to do to make the team better, even if that means sliding over from the driver's seat into the passenger seat. I think he might become the running game's biggest cheerleader if it could decrease his burden. No, I worry about the Dez Bryant's of the world. How will he and other skill players handle the idea of going from a 35 passes-per-game offense down to a 25 passes-per-game team? That's fewer opportunities for Austin, Witten and Bryant. What about Garrett himself? He of the complex route trees and timing patterns. Would he be willing to simply hand the ball off to Murray and Tanner and forsake the aerial attack if the ground game, as unimaginative as that may seem, becomes the most reliable and productive part of the offense? Last, but certainly not least, is Jerry. Jerry has a lot invested in those skill players and not slinging the ball around means their value goes down a bit and the need for good offensive line play (and talent) becomes more critical. Are we sure Jones would be willing to let the pendulum swing that way? Clearly, this shift in philosophy brings a number of questions with it and if it does start to take shape, it won't come easily.

Romo continues to say that his symphony and the symphony of this iteration of the Dallas Cowboys are still being written. For the most part, I believe that he's right. The question is, in these musical scores (no pun intended), does Romo play second fiddle?

   Demarco-murray_mediumImages_medium  

GO COWBOYS!

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Second fiddle

Matters.

As you well know.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 8, 2011 10:15 AM CST reply actions  

Where would Batman be without Robin?

Laurel without Hardy?

Maris without Mantle?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 10:18 AM CST up reply actions  

The correct response is...

Who’s on first?

More(?) correct.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 8, 2011 10:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Who's on second

What’s on First….

Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT

Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.

Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST

by I am Ironman!!! on Nov 8, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I....Dont....KNOW!

Third base.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

"Meanwhile, like a bitter wine, Philadelphia’s jealousy fermented in the dark cellars of pride and resentment. With no playoff hopes of their own, Eagles fans turned towards hating the Cowboys." Steve Sabol, NFL films

by Nickthegrip on Nov 8, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Batman doesn't need Robin

Where would Batman be without Alfred!

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN

by thebigham on Nov 8, 2011 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Excellent point

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

LOL!

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 10:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Yea, but we know how Jimmy did without Jerry.

Was barely over 50% in wins and the best RB he could draft was John Avery and he tried 7 picks in one draft alone hoping he would hit on one by chance. (If my memory serves me.)

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 9:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Very good point

The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT

If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.

by Final Frame on Nov 8, 2011 5:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm simpler

Points scored. Per game.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 8, 2011 10:30 AM CST reply actions  

I prefer...

Points scored per possession compared to the rest of the league. That takes out a lot of schematic differences between, say, the Jets and Saints.

Free Luna!!!!

by rhodri2112 on Nov 8, 2011 12:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Go with that

I’m sticking with scoring more points per game than the direct opponent each time.

Screw league-comparison stuff and such rankings. Nice intertesting diversion, based on reality sometimes, but not the key to winning, other than that one key comparison, the final score.

Even in-game, examine:
3 possessions (0,7,0) vs 2 possessions (3,3).
Points/possession in case 1: 2.333
Points/possession in case 2: 3

Who gets the W? Style points are for ice dancing, not football.

Where’s Art Donovan when ya need him?

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 8, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Agreed

Why complicate things? It gets you nowhere.

Score more, better offense. Score less, worse offense.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Straight outta the...

… General Nathan Bedford “Get there firstest with the mostest” Forrest school of tactics.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 8, 2011 6:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Outstanding point!

recd.

I also like point differential. I look at the teams that have the largest difference between the points scored and the points allowed by the defense.

Lets say the offense scores an NFL record 600 points in a season, but gives up 599 points. There is no telling what their win/loss record would be.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

+16 on the scoreboard point differential

Evenly distributed over the regular season, with a bonus +4 ( to account for the extreme outer possibility at needing +4) evenly distributed in the postseason, or in the case of <4 games with the remainder tacked on the SB victory.

The rest’s icing.

btw, Offense/Defense/ST, it matters not which unit gains or surrenders points. All that matters is team.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 9, 2011 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Teams win and lose,

not QB’s, not Head Coaches, and not Defense (As in Defense wins Championships). It takes a TEAM to win, and in a broader sense, an Organization to win because every facet has a hand in it, from the equipment manager, the Strength and Conditioning Coach, etc, etc.

The Pats were asked who did they give the most credit to those 3 SB victories, and all that were asked, said Mike Woicik.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 2:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Interesting to note

We had quite a good history of non injured players in the recent years.

by Ben24626 on Nov 9, 2011 7:35 PM CST up reply actions  

2007 was uncanny

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 8:48 PM CST up reply actions  

money
All that matters is team.

"....the Cowboy way...." (Head Coach, Jason Garrett)

by BishopWest on Nov 9, 2011 2:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't see Romo as second fiddle

Our passing game even now is a crucial part of the offense. But a productive run game would do wonders for this team. Playcalling isn’t easy when you run at 2-3 yards a pop (and occasionally lose yards). If you run, it looks bad, and if you pass, they usually know you’re coming.

Also, time will tell, but we’re beginning to see something out of this line. We all knew what Garrett was going for with these young guys, but we’re finally beginning to see some results.

I think this could be more of a 1a and 1b situation, like Eli Manning on the Giants for much of his career. Where Romo has to do a little less during the game and has the advantage of effective playaction.

Also – side note – I think the Eagles may be the first NFL team to miss the playoffs in large part because they cannot defend the run. Turnovers and fluky losses impact this situation heavily (Ronnie Brown made one of the worst nfl plays I’ve ever seen on the goal line against SF)

by foyesboys on Nov 8, 2011 10:32 AM CST reply actions  

But 1b still comes after 1a, right?

Don’t count out the Eagles. I never do.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 4:30 PM CST up reply actions  

well...

in the games we’ve lost this year, we’ve done the same thing that last year’s team did early on, which is finding a way to lose close games. as far as what murray brings to this team, it’s a much needed sigh of relief as far as the running game. bottom line? in the 2nd half of this season, we have to stop giving games away and realize the potential that the talent our offense has, and win we can. we’ve been whipped only once. all the other games coulda been wins. shame what we gave away,.

by qbfannn on Nov 8, 2011 10:49 AM CST reply actions  

Very true.

No one could have said that key better!

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

This team could easily be 2-6, or 7-1,

but here they sit a 4-4. I’m optimistic, but doubtful that they can make the playoffs. I don’t know if 10-6 can get in this year, and to ask an inconsistant team to go 6-2 is alot. They probally need 11 wins, thats a tall order.

by Coakey on Nov 8, 2011 11:29 AM CST reply actions  

Don't be so sure

I think the Giants may collapse as they have done before.

10 wins may be enough. The schedule affords us a chance.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 11:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Or the Gmen could get better. It's their division to lose.

Eli is playing better than Romo. Their d line played together for only the second time vs the Pats. Smh at the thought of Costa blocking the Gmen dt’s.

Jerry is the end all in Dallas.

by football mensa on Nov 9, 2011 5:10 AM CST up reply actions  

I believe the Giants and the Cowboys have about the same chances of winning the division

The Giants have a two game advantage, but our calendar’s habe been pretty much the opposite.

Dallas started with a hard schedule , that is now followed by a stretch of mostly weak opponents (Buffalo, Washington, Miami, Cards, ).

On their part, the Giants have already spent their quota of weaklings, and now face a brutal few weeks (San Francisco, Philly, NO, Green Bay) .

I won’t discount the importance of them having a signature win against a team like the patriots, but if you are concerned about the Boy’s inconsistency, you can’t pretend that the Giants didn’t loose to Seattle, Washington, and barely survived against Miami just a few day’s ago!

I’ll say this. If the Giants win the division, it will be because either they are very good, or because Dallas faded, because as long as Dallas split against the G-Men and Philly, and beats inferior opponents, they should have no problem getting to the playoffs.

by Fsanchezf1983 on Nov 9, 2011 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Sanchez
(San Francisco, Philly, NO, Green Bay) .

seems so far that only Dallas can’t beat the Iggles

I’ll say this. If the Giants win the division, it will be because either they are very good, or because Dallas faded,

history is not on our side

Jerry is the end all in Dallas.

by football mensa on Nov 10, 2011 3:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Speaking of Giants DT's

I think they might’ve overpaid for Chris Canty. 6 years and 42 mil and he’s had 1 good year out of 2 and a half.

by Ben24626 on Nov 9, 2011 7:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Seems so

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 11:28 PM CST up reply actions  

its simple guy T.O.

A guy that can beat a double team.. its rare but we had one of those guys.

by lostar2009 on Nov 8, 2011 11:54 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

Stop it

A pill popping, trash mouthing, team dividing ego driven wide receiver is not going to happen in the Jason Garrett era. Think of what Owens would do to Dez Bryant.

Stephen Jones ain’t going for it either.

Stop this ridiculousness.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

"Meanwhile, like a bitter wine, Philadelphia’s jealousy fermented in the dark cellars of pride and resentment. With no playoff hopes of their own, Eagles fans turned towards hating the Cowboys." Steve Sabol, NFL films

by Nickthegrip on Nov 8, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

hey guy what he did is what he did or what somevsaid he did..

I’m talking about his production ..

Enough said he was the last of a dying breed..

by lostar2009 on Nov 8, 2011 4:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

if T.O. was still that same guy then I would entertain the idea of bringing him back

Did we all forgot how much trouble he had getting off the press due to his loss of short area quickness? TO can still play but he’s not worth the headache anymore, especially not on a team like ours

by somebodyquiet on Nov 8, 2011 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd say the first couple of years.

He wasn’t that dominant later on. But while speaking of this guy, the heart of the matter is that you can’t just talk of production, because it was inextricably linked to his ego.

He matured somewhat in the end, but by that time, it was too late for his legacy. It is a pitty, really, because there was so much more he could have done with that talent.

If he had the attitude of a guy like Keith Brooking, he would still be playing, perhaps with one or two Superbowl rings, or retiring in glory, someplace, beloved by the whole fanbase.

by Fsanchezf1983 on Nov 9, 2011 1:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, I was never a T.O, fan, but I can tell you that he is the best WR Dallas has had since Irvin left

His fatal flaws were truly…fatal for his career.

But he may have possessed the best hip/shoulder fakes in the history of the sport at that position. It certainly helped him get behind some of the best CB’s in the game. It opened up the offense in ways we have not seen since.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions  

TO was a guy that could easly blow the top of the Defense..

For some of you guys who forgot Dallas wreck teams with TO, PC, and witten that 2007 season..

There was no Dez,miles,Witten,Robinson like we had now..

What TO could not get Witten and Pc would easily come in and clean up..

by lostar2009 on Nov 8, 2011 4:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

TO was TOo much TO

Not enough team. TOo bad, TOo sad.

btw, if it was so “easy” how come it didn’t happen more often than not?

As you and Blings make a case for, “best” since Irvin, though in the end, what’d it garner? Other than flaking out how much for him to play elsewhere? The Curse of Deion lived on. Need mucho powerful juju to break that one. Still waiting to see if it’s truly abated.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 8, 2011 6:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Clearly, it garnered a very potent offense

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 7:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Garnered the most successful team and offense

Since Irving. Hands down, no debate. Dez and Miles both posess the tools but TO and that offense did make things happen.

I'm a Wizards fan. We've been trying to tell you about Lebron for years. Hated the man before it was cool.

by returnofswagger on Nov 10, 2011 6:36 PM CST up reply actions  

the curse of deion?

What are u talking about?

by lostar2009 on Nov 8, 2011 7:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Gather round, kiddies

For the tale of Jerrah Jones, the snakeiest, smoke-n-mirrors, grand-poobah snakeoil salesman and ringmaster of the circus that was once the famed Dallas Cowboys and the descent into playoff oblivion mingled with garnishes of hubristic self-indulgence and teeming self-doubt brought about by the dreaded signing of Neon Deion, the grinning goofball mercenary-become-know-no-shame-direct-tv-hawking-fairy and holier-than-thou broadcast BSer.


Or, the day the music Cowboys died, September 9, 1995

Paid for by the hearts of Cowboys fans.

Go ahead, for a laugh, click on the link, enlarge the photo, look at that sad, sad scene and tell me it ain’t funny. Sadly, sorrowfully, remorsefully funny.

Get it now? Or do you need it spelled out?

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 8, 2011 11:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Just for kicks

How would you have it “spelled out” if asked to do so?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 11:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Em. Eee.

As in Jerral’s “Me” moment. When he flipped. The letter too. When “W” became “M”.

All prior to that, the drunken “slighting” of Jimmy, the stubborn bullheadedness in not owning up to a moment of egotistical hubris and simply saying “I was wrong”, admitting error, even apologizing, whether it would have resolved the situation to the expectation and likings of some fans or not, his further descending into megalomania, the advent of FA “splashiness” in the fool pool of his own delusion, hoodwinking the same gullible innocents the pretentious palace is designed to bedazzle into thinking that that individual, that one man, that single devil’s spawn of temptation was the key to winning, to winning even that 3rd Lombardi he so desperately desired he made a deal, by his own admission, that he’d “never ask for another” was nothing but prelude. Hoisting that 3rd merely sealed the deal. And Neon Deion had damn little to do with winning it, they were on track without him and despite the claim some may make to the contrary, he alone was not the reason they won that game. Or that season. But he was, in part, a reason for the fall from grace of this team.

You think Mephistopheles’ Tempest came to me overnight? In a flash vision? Like the delusionary pseudo-religious preaching quacking duck I sound like expressing that, for a man who ain’t religious, doesn’t have answers, none of it. It’s all there, down to the link to JJ’s interview of admission, the landscape, the challenge, an alternative, the works.

Spelled out plain and simple as any simply complex conundrum in football, sports or Life. And as paradoxically. Hidden, to boot. Hidden in plain sight. As is all.

Double You. Eee.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 9, 2011 9:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Dude, you're thought patterns and writing skills are absolutely "one of kind"

A myriad of mazes with surprises at every turn, and after one submerges into the complex systems of communication, like finding your way through the Labyrinth or Knossos, always seem to emerge into the light of understanding and ask, “How did I get here?”

"....the Cowboy way...." (Head Coach, Jason Garrett)

by BishopWest on Nov 9, 2011 10:05 AM CST up reply actions  

tanstaafl is BTB's resident James Joyce

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 10:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Or Ted Kaczynski.

Haven’t quite got it nailed down as to which yet!

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

"Meanwhile, like a bitter wine, Philadelphia’s jealousy fermented in the dark cellars of pride and resentment. With no playoff hopes of their own, Eagles fans turned towards hating the Cowboys." Steve Sabol, NFL films

by Nickthegrip on Nov 9, 2011 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Oops...

I did it again. Petard-tight, Britney-style. Jessica, anyone?

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 9, 2011 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

ha - I remember THAT

"....the Cowboy way...." (Head Coach, Jason Garrett)

by BishopWest on Nov 9, 2011 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

SPOT ON DESCRIPTION

of one of our best assets here on BTB

| Blogging The Boys | SBNation Dallas | Producer/CoHost Flood The Block Radio, TUE 7p RockTheFlow.com |

by KD Drummond on Nov 10, 2011 5:49 PM CST up reply actions  

tanstaafl, Very well said, as usual.

Not sure I could be as “sure” as you are on the contribution of Sanders.

He did truely “take away half the field” as dozens of NFL personell (sp), have said, and how can you say that the Cowboys would have won without him so absolutely.

Not saying I disagree, just saying I dont know one way or the other because it takes a TEAM to win and lose.

But again, as usual very well said.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 1:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I do think JJ

should not say as much as he does when it comes to things that should be said by the coach instead.

But he was the GM that hired Jimmy and he was the GM that traded for Haley.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

I don’t really feel like piling on T.O., especially since I do feel he has greater-than-average personality problems. Aaand, this really bears repeating: T.O. was responsible for Garrett’s greatest offensive season to date. (Noone denies this!)

But let me tie this into your second-fiddle idea: I always felt that it was T.O.‘s overwhelming personality that drove the offense in some ways. I feel Tony truly plays best when he is “just having fun out there,” and T.O.’s presence gave him great latitude and reason to flourish.

And why not when you have a lightning rod of Owens’ caliber in front of the media and (supposably) in the middle of the lockerroom. We have not had another such force since. So it is not necessarily a question of hierarchy as much as it is a need for a valve that can turn up/down the pressure on the team from within. As far as non-QBs go, I think Ray Lewis provides a great example in spite of his own…issues.

This, I believe, is what Tony and the Cowboys need. I think, on some level, many fans feel that way. Consider the calls for a more forceful coach to lead the team, or the desire for Dez, another loud personality, to get his head and act together, or even the expressions of mild regret that Ware is not a big jerk (on-field, of course).

To be clear, this is also not a question of “leadership,” merely an examination of a (lacking?) trait that may explain the disconnect between talent and results plaguing the Romo-era Cowboys.

Smiles ahead

by accidental innuendo on Nov 9, 2011 10:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes, it's the whole Fire and Brimstone thing

This team hasn’t had a fiery, emotional core of leaders in the Romo era.

I think that’s just the personality of the team. I wonder if Garrett will look for guys who can be more of a locker room lightning rod as time goes on.

It’s hard to envision a great team without some guy, or guys, that amp the team up into that frenzied state. I still remember how different it was to see Dallas starting a shoving match with the 49ers prior to the start of an NFC Championship game. In that regard, for example, DeMarcus Ware is no Charles Haley.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

a guy like Ray Lewis?

Is there even enough of those guys to go around?

Good thought and just as good a post.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

No, not enough to go around

The great teams have those firebrands. They ignite passion on the team.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I always thought that

Keith Brooking was that guy.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 7:28 PM CST up reply actions  

He was

But his act got old, as did he.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

"Meanwhile, like a bitter wine, Philadelphia’s jealousy fermented in the dark cellars of pride and resentment. With no playoff hopes of their own, Eagles fans turned towards hating the Cowboys." Steve Sabol, NFL films

by Nickthegrip on Nov 9, 2011 7:44 PM CST up reply actions  

I worry will JG still feed Murray the ball with Felix back..

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN

by thebigham on Nov 8, 2011 2:50 PM CST reply actions  

I think he will use Murray on at least 50% of the run plays

I just think it will be more of rotating them in and out and keeping both fresh through the game. I think we see this at least for a few games till he can see how both perform.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

How do you want to be rememberd. Go out there and play every play like it is your last play. Be remembered as the person you want to be for the rest of your life. Spike Dykes, Midland Lee and Texas Tech Coach.

by Birddog26 on Nov 8, 2011 3:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Thats what I don't get..

Why is it 50/50 why shouldn’t it stay to what he is doing now maybe a little less like 80/20. If you think hes AD lite then give him the ball

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN

by thebigham on Nov 8, 2011 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I am with bigham, I just think Garrett is going to split it down the middle and see what we have.

Me personally I would probably look at giving Murray the ball 70 to 80% of the time.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

How do you want to be rememberd. Go out there and play every play like it is your last play. Be remembered as the person you want to be for the rest of your life. Spike Dykes, Midland Lee and Texas Tech Coach.

by Birddog26 on Nov 8, 2011 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I think he wants to see who that person is and how both perform given an equal chance.

Now me personally, I think given Jones’s injury issues he is not a guy who is going to get a new contract so I would use in him a role to take some of the load off of Murray.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

How do you want to be rememberd. Go out there and play every play like it is your last play. Be remembered as the person you want to be for the rest of your life. Spike Dykes, Midland Lee and Texas Tech Coach.

by Birddog26 on Nov 8, 2011 4:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Would you do that at the expense of Tanner's touches?

Seems like Tanner is pretty physical, but lacks big-play ability.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 4:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Really hard to say, I have not seen Tanner in practice since training camp

From what I did see of him then, he seems like that short yardage back. but giving Jones some of the touches would keep Murray fresh through the end of the game.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

How do you want to be rememberd. Go out there and play every play like it is your last play. Be remembered as the person you want to be for the rest of your life. Spike Dykes, Midland Lee and Texas Tech Coach.

by Birddog26 on Nov 8, 2011 5:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Wouldn't that be more backup than split duty?

Given the “some”, not the middling split first mentioned.

This has the potential of being a tipping point in so many respects. More correctly, revealing whether or not one’s been made, is being or will be as a result of. Scheme, player, team, not to mention franchise power structure relevatory.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 8, 2011 6:29 PM CST up reply actions  

No, let me rephrase part of that

It doesn’t sit well with me, more as concerns some people’s perception of the word “backup” or the role being somehow secondary or second-place or third or whatever. Call it “relief” or “alternative” or how about simply “team-mate”. Or next starter up, I like that one

Next. Man up.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 8, 2011 7:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I think it can't be a 50/50 split

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 7:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Nor should it be.

The line didn’t suddenly get magnitudes better. It’s Murray. He should be the lead back, with Jones and Tanner playing their roles. Sorry Felix. Do what you can when you get touches.

"Everything is on the One." -- George Clinton, Parliament/Funkadelic

With an improved defense, everything should be on the One.

by Uncle Angus on Nov 9, 2011 6:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Hard to argue against

Very well stated, UA.

It is entirely unlikley that the O-line got THAT MUCH better overnight (the night they put Murray in as the starter).

It IS Murray.

I’m okay with opening the anointing oil even if Fernie (and Aikman) are trepidacious.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 10:14 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm with you on this 5Blings.

I have studied his running style and have seen some things that make me believe, (As I have since before the draft), that he is the real deal.

He breaks the first tackle very well. Unlike Felix, when Murray gets hit from the side, he just bounces off and stays verticle, where Felix tends to get knocked over.

He doesnt run on his toes which is another great trait. He is fast, has great vision, and can cut on a dime and often he seems to change direction without much if any loss in speed.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 8:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I think the greatest trait a skill player (except QB) can bring to the table

…is the ability to avoid gearing down to change direction. It’s as valuable to a CB as it is to a TE or RB or WR or Safety or KR.

What combine drill measures that best? Short shuttle?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 8:43 PM CST up reply actions  

The "3 Cone Shuttle Drill."

The best two moves are the “Hockey Stop” and the “Spider.”

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 9:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Completely agree 100% Uncle Angus.

It is Murray mostly.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

dis agree

while Murray obviously is good He has had the advantage of Having Fiammetta and a consistant line which Felix didn’t have…and Less you forget Murray wasn’t exactly lighting the world on Fire when Felix was playing…..

First 5 Games-
Felix-63 253 4.0

Murray- 25 73 2.9

now Like I said Murray is a good Back…However Felix is every bit as good.

Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT

Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.

Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST

by I am Ironman!!! on Nov 9, 2011 5:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Here is the thing,

I can’t say for sure but if you look at most of Felix’s runs that he makes good yards on, he is hitting the “B” and “C” gaps, while Murray is getting a lot of yards by hitting the “A” gaps.

When Felix gets hit, he gets knocked off balance too easy, and Murray just bounces off and stays verticle, in other words he passes the eyeball test better in my studying of the two running styles.

Dont get me wrong, I was/am a big supporter of Felix, just have liked Murray from before we drafted him better than Felix.

The guy broke all of A. Petersons records at Oklahoma.

Career Records at University of Oklahoma
- All-Time Leader in Points Scored (390)
- All-Time Leader in Touchdowns (65)
- All-Time Leader in All Purpose Yards (6,718)
- All-Time Leader in Receiving Yards for a Running Back (1,571)

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 7:01 PM CST up reply actions  

It's because Murray has great body lean

Felix runs stiffly, which makes it easy to knock him off balance.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 8:45 PM CST up reply actions  

It also has to do

with the great vision that Murray has that allows him to do a great job of preparing for the hit and Felix is not as good at that.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 9:09 PM CST up reply actions  

My question is

In the offseason after his first year they had Felix pack on some extra weight, then before this season he was reported as bringing himself back down (or adjusting to it). Could that have thrown off his balance?

The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT

If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.

by Final Frame on Nov 10, 2011 2:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Hmmm.....

Good question. I think Felix needs MMA training like Murray is doing. It will put the strength in the muscles that need it.

One of the drills is to do high knee kicks into a “kicking bag.” All drills are tailored for the position you play.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 10, 2011 6:00 PM CST up reply actions  

But look at the types of runs

…and then compare their performances playing behind the SAME O-line. They don’t have Bigg in his prime or Gurode or Kosier (when he was playing well) or even Flozell. This is an O-line that doesn’t get a lot of push and Murray is still productive. Jones not so much.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 8:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep, agree completely.

It is Murray. See my latest fanpost.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 8:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Really?
their performances playing behind the SAME O-line. This is an O-line that doesn’t get a lot of push and Murray is still productive. Jones not so much.

Ok lets look at it:
-—————-Felix———-Murray
Game 1: 17-44-1…….2-0-0

Game 2: 9-25…………..6-21

Game 3: 14-115………2-6

Game 4: 16-57………..4-12

Game 5: 7-12…………..11-32

Felix- 63- 253(4.0)

Murray- 25 73 (2.9)

So who performed Better?

Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT

Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.

Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST

by I am Ironman!!! on Nov 9, 2011 10:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I see your point, but

in games where Murray was the KEY back, not just the backup, he has clearly out performed Felix

"....the Cowboy way...." (Head Coach, Jason Garrett)

by BishopWest on Nov 9, 2011 10:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I would point to one thing

 Tony Fiammetta:
 the ONE game that Felix played with him He averaged 8.6 YPC and that was with Nagy at LG and not Holland

Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT

Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.

Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST

by I am Ironman!!! on Nov 9, 2011 10:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm good with that

"....the Cowboy way...." (Head Coach, Jason Garrett)

by BishopWest on Nov 9, 2011 10:48 PM CST up reply actions  

No

Take away 2 big runs in that one game and you’ll see Felix was getting stoned. That hasn’t happened with Murray.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 11:35 PM CST up reply actions  

that is cherry picking though

Those runs happened….and Murray has been stoned multiple times….

Like I said I am trying to take away anything from Murray, but to say that he is the SOLE reason that The Run Game has improved is straight up BS…..

Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT

Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.

Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST

by I am Ironman!!! on Nov 9, 2011 11:40 PM CST up reply actions  

So what do you attribute it to?

It’s all Fiametta?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 11:43 PM CST up reply actions  

to a point yes

I would say it is a combination of several factors

A) Tony Fiammetta-80%

B)Improved O-line play-15%

C) Murray’s abilities-5%

NOw would Felix have put up the Same numbers? well given that he is just as Fast as Murray, is just as Agile, and given the fact that Murray is still a rookie, is likely slightly stronger, I would say that the chances are pretty good that he would have.

Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT

Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.

Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST

by I am Ironman!!! on Nov 9, 2011 11:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I know you like to pull Combine numbers and view players through the triangle, but...

I think you’re wrong as wrong can be about Murray.

As the comment above suggests, Felix is a complementary back who was meant to play in space and not carry the proverbial load.

Murray runs in a completely different way and looks like a bell cow.

I don’t think Felix is strong enough,durable enough or instinctive enough to generate the kind of consistent positive play that Muray has demonstrated.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 10, 2011 12:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Sorry, the comment BELOW

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 10, 2011 12:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Murray has better sight

There are times where Felix like Barber before him just ran at where holes should have been. Now we have Murray that will see theres no whole and move a different direction and having a pretty good chance at the yardage being positive.

The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT

If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.

by Final Frame on Nov 10, 2011 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

It's a feel for the the hole, not just vision

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 10, 2011 11:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh come on

Spot duty versus being the starter?

And no mention of him being a rookie without the rookie and extended training camps that Felix has had?

Murray barely knows the play book.

Again, with Murray as starter, he has outperformed Felix as starter.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 11:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Again Blings

I am not trying to say that Murray is a bad runner. In fact I have been harping on the fact that we needed to get him more involved.

All I am saying is that while yes Murray is a good Back and has done things that no one else has, don;t discount Felix.

Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT

Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.

Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST

by I am Ironman!!! on Nov 10, 2011 12:22 AM CST up reply actions  

I like them both,

but I think that Murray is the more talented back.

I think Jones could carry the load, but I think Murray has some traits that Felix doesnt have.

When you are able to take hits and not get knocked off your balance, you are something special.

When you do a lot of dammage between the “A” Gaps, (Something I dont remember seeing Felix do), then you are once again special.

I think we may have found a real steal. Eric Mangini said that if not for Injuries Murray was a high first round pick.

Once again, I am a huge Felix Jones fan, but like Murray more.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 10, 2011 1:19 AM CST up reply actions  

Hmmmm
I think Jones could carry the load

What makes you think that?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 10, 2011 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

I think he needs to spend time

with Emmitt and then he could carry the load.

If you notice the last time he injured his sholder, it was because he really hasnt learned how to go down properly.

Emmitt was asked how was he able to go so long without being injured and he said it was learning how to hit the ground properly.

(If my memory serves me correclty!)

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 10, 2011 6:06 PM CST up reply actions  

But he's never carried the load before

 Why now?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 10, 2011 11:47 PM CST up reply actions  

He had Darren McFadden

in front of him mainly and perhaps Garrett wants badly to not have people think Felix was a bad pick.

Dont think it is that way very much, but perhaps in the back of his mind.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 11, 2011 2:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I can't imagine he cares that much about it

…especially at the expense of the team’s performance.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 11, 2011 5:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Felix could become better with less touches

Maybe lose some weight and get back to his rookie ways.

by Ben24626 on Nov 9, 2011 7:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep, could be.

In most games there are about 60 plays on offense and defense.

Most Coaches preach “balance” which means that, they would like to see, 30 pass plays and 30 run plays.

Having said that, I think the split should be 20 carries for Murray, about 6 for Felix and 4 for Tanner.

Now, keep in mind, that Murray should and will get part of the 30 plays on Offense because he is very good on “swing” passes and screens.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 7:58 PM CST up reply actions  

So is Murray apparently

In terms of being good at catching passes and screens.

by Ben24626 on Nov 9, 2011 8:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Fine

…but I think this is his last year in Dallas.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 8:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Why?

You think they might draft another guy? I see it this way Murray is signed for a while, they’d have to extend Tanner, and then you have Felix where if he’s taking reduced duty comes at a cheaper price. I could see locking up Tanner and Felix for 2-3 years while searching for another rb from time to time.

I think its Tree’s and Bennetts last years with this team. Possibly if the Cowboys go another DE I could see Spears getting the axe even if Coleman isn’t resigned. Geathers has only gotten 8 snaps this year and I think he’s shown more flash then Spears has in the last few years.

The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT

If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.

by Final Frame on Nov 10, 2011 2:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Lol

They just gave Spears a deal. It’ll take more than a couple bad games for him to cut.

by Ben24626 on Nov 10, 2011 5:46 PM CST up reply actions  

If he does this then he should be fired.
I think he will use Murray on at least 50% of the run plays

To use your best rb only 50% of the time would be proof his ego is as large as Jerry’s.

Jerry is the end all in Dallas.

by football mensa on Nov 9, 2011 5:18 AM CST up reply actions  

It would defy logic indeed.

"Everything is on the One." -- George Clinton, Parliament/Funkadelic

With an improved defense, everything should be on the One.

by Uncle Angus on Nov 9, 2011 6:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Remember though that he has a boss

…and the boss was the one who PICKED Felix.

Egos can trump logic.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

I recall that being Garrett’s influence with accompanying justification.

Smiles ahead

by accidental innuendo on Nov 9, 2011 10:17 AM CST up reply actions  

When asked Garrett shot down the notion that Felix was his idea.

I’m getting kinda tired of people saying the same thing over and over because its what they simply want to believe.

The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT

If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.

by Final Frame on Nov 9, 2011 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Do you have a link to that one?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Really? Nothing?

I’m getting kinda tired of people acting like blowhards and then slinking away when proven wrong.

Smiles ahead

by accidental innuendo on Nov 10, 2011 8:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't remember that

Do you remember where you saw it?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

I remember the war room discussion and the comments after the draft itself in '08

Here is the excerpt, but link below is now broken. Emphasis is mine.

Felix Jones is Jason Garrett’s pick
11:22 AM Thu, Aug 07, 2008 | Permalink | Yahoo! Buzz
Tim MacMahon E-mail News tips

From a football perspective, the most interesting clip in the Hard Knocks opener wasn’t filmed at training camp. It was a scene from the Valley Ranch war room on draft day.

Jerry Jones will tell you that he’s responsible for every single personnel decision. But it’s clear that Felix Jones is a Cowboy instead of Rashard Mendenhall in large part because of head coach-in-waiting Jason Garrett.

“The one guy is an everydown back,” Garrett said, referring to Mendenhall while the No. 22 pick was approaching. “The other guy is a special complementary back. We’ve got to remember that we’ve got an everydown back here.”

And now they have a special complementary back, too, whose versatility is allowing Garrett’s creativity to run free.

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/08/felix-jones-is-jason-garretts-pick.html

Smiles ahead

by accidental innuendo on Nov 9, 2011 11:31 AM CST up reply actions  

Cool...thanks ai

The fact that he calls Felix a “special complimentary back” may bode well for Murray in that he may now view DM as the everydown back he saw Barber being in 2008.

The question is, if he thought Felix was always just a change of pace guy, why did he put him into the starting role and not Choice (or at least have choice get more of the load) or someone with everydown skills?

To me, the most maddening part about this is that it suggests Jason doesn’t think enough in bigger picture terms relative to the draft. You have to take the best guy available, ESPECIALLY in the first round!!!

The NFL stands for Not For Long and that applies more so to RB’s than any other position. How do you waste a #22 on a guy you think will never be anything more than a role player? I’ll tell you how. Because you drank your own bath water and thought the offensive performance you got in 2007 would be the new norm.

Brandon Flowers, Tracy Porter, DeSean Jackson, Eddie Royal, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Fred Davis, Calais Campbell. I’d trade Felix straight up for ANYof those guys and they all went after Jones in that draft.

I hope Garrett learned something from what I believe is a collossal error in approach.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree with both points again 5B

I don’t think you can “waste a #22 on a guy you think will never be anything more than a role player.” That’s more of that “drafting STs and backups” BS.

And I hope JG learned something from that.

In a perfect world, JG puts Felilx right where he originally envisioned him: complimentary back. Murray is the real deal.

"Everything is on the One." -- George Clinton, Parliament/Funkadelic

With an improved defense, everything should be on the One.

by Uncle Angus on Nov 9, 2011 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

OMG!
That’s more of that "drafting STs and backups" BS.

You are SO right!!!

Now it makes me wonder how much of a say did JG have on guys like Telly B, Choice, James Marten and Isaiah Stanback?

I need a drink.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

What does foresight lead to?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 8:36 PM CST up reply actions  

same thing

"....the Cowboy way...." (Head Coach, Jason Garrett)

by BishopWest on Nov 9, 2011 10:02 PM CST up reply actions  

hell...JG better continue.....

to feed Murray the ball or ill be forced to slap the red off his head …lol

woman !, don't try to understand em, don't try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
(redskins)= A Tale of 2 owners, bought by Snyder, OWNED by the COWBOYS
Id say RIP Al Davis, but i know your up there drunker than a monkey and clocking angels in the 40 yd dash.

by demonbane on Nov 8, 2011 3:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah he better not fix what isn't broken

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN

by thebigham on Nov 8, 2011 3:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Money Post

"Treat a person as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a person as if he were where he could be and should be, and he will become what he could be and should be." - Jimmy Johnson

by silverblue5 on Nov 8, 2011 4:17 PM CST reply actions  

yes.

It sets up the play fake, and this offense has the ability to take advantage of that.

The O-Line, specifically the center, needs to keep the opponent’s D-Linemen from creating a push in order for the play action to develop. That hasn’t happened consistently.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

"Meanwhile, like a bitter wine, Philadelphia’s jealousy fermented in the dark cellars of pride and resentment. With no playoff hopes of their own, Eagles fans turned towards hating the Cowboys." Steve Sabol, NFL films

by Nickthegrip on Nov 8, 2011 7:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Sounds like you miss Gurode?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 7:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I understand why he was let go.

But he anchored the line against some heavies coming up the middle. We don’t have that right now, and need it.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

"Meanwhile, like a bitter wine, Philadelphia’s jealousy fermented in the dark cellars of pride and resentment. With no playoff hopes of their own, Eagles fans turned towards hating the Cowboys." Steve Sabol, NFL films

by Nickthegrip on Nov 8, 2011 8:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

That move’s looking bad now, although he’s not exactly lighting the world on fire for the Ravens, even if he is playing guard.

by Ben24626 on Nov 9, 2011 7:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Is Costa the answer at center?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 8:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Nope,

We should move Kosier to Center and insert Dockery at Guard until we have another high draft pick to improve futher.

The O-Line is the Key to any teams success more so than any other “group” of players. Run block, and Pass Block and any good NFL QB will do very well. IMHO.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 8:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I think a great center and two average OG's is preferable to having two great guards and an average center

It seems most teams with consistently good running games place a lot of emphasis on the center.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 8:47 PM CST up reply actions  

So, are you saying Kosier will definately

be an Average Center for sure? Or am I completely missing the point?

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 9:04 PM CST up reply actions  

My feelings is it is always

usually a good idea to put your best 5 Olinemen on the field at the same time.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 9:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Opps, the strike was supposed to be

only for the word Always.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 9:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd look to upgrade center first...

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 11:37 PM CST up reply actions  

I could go for that too,

but what about playing your best 5 olinemen regardless of everything else?

Make sense?

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 10, 2011 1:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Define "best"

Otherwise you may find ’wake up, Tony" snaps, false starts resulting from wrong-man/wrong-place/wrong-time and a myriad of other pesky challenges facing a “throw out the top 5” line. Or it that throw-up?

Regardless of everything else? Ummm, no.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 10, 2011 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Best, meaning the guys

that will get you the most production. Kosier has had a lot of practice reps at Center because he has always been a “backup plan” at Center.

Sometimes the best way to get the most production is to put the best 5 (most talented if you will) out there and let them master their postions.

Not saying I know everything or I cant be wrong, just sayin….it could be a good thing and that it has been talked about by the Cowboys.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 10, 2011 6:11 PM CST up reply actions  

You have to emphasize something

You can’t field five 1st rounders on the offensive line as long as Jerry still walks the earth. So, maybe you put your marquee investments in tackle and center?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 10, 2011 10:54 AM CST up reply actions  

If I were GM,

I would put my emphasis on the O-Line period.

I would have the best O-line in the NFL, just like we had when we were winning those three Superbowls.

I think it is THE most important “group”, as in Linebackers, Corners, Safties, etc.

While the QB is the most important single player, the O-Line is what gets you good run blocking and good pass blocking.

Tom Brady couldnt win jack without a good O-Line and Tony Romo couldnt beat Minnesota in that Playoff game because he was on his back all the time.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 10, 2011 6:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you could make an argument that Tennessee has the best O-line

Who else?

SF? The Raiders? G-Men?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 10, 2011 11:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I disagree

The Bills have an excellent o-line, also the Patriots, Texans and Packers.

by Ben24626 on Nov 11, 2011 2:22 AM CST up reply actions  

The Packers?

I think 2 years ago, Rodgers was sacked like 56 times? they added Bulaga, which was brilliant, but I still think they are suspect.

The Bills O-line is good. The Pats O-line has come under fire lately.

Texans O-line is very good, I agree.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 11, 2011 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

I think offensive line is overrated

And a lot of the problems boil down to coaching. If you look at the draft pedigree of the best offensive lines in the league, now and in the past, you won’t find many if any that are wall-to-wall first day draft picks. Teams that do that will have in extremis needs at the skill positions.

Let’s look at the Texans starting five this year, in draft order rank: 26th pick; 3rd round; 3rd round; sixth round; UDFA.

Bills: 28th pick; 2nd round, 7th round; UDFA; UDFA.

In Giants glory days a few years ago, say 2008, here was their pedigree: 2nd round; 3rd round; 5th round, UDFA; UDFA.

How about the Cowboys glory days, circa 1993? 3rd round; 3rd round; 8th round; UDFA; UDFA.

Does anybody see the pattern here? And keep in mind we’re not talking about any old line, we’re talking about the very best at the time they were playing. Anyone who wants to sink multiple high draft picks into their offensive line has just bankrupted their team.

Unfortunately, the offensive line has become an obsession (and convenient scapegoat) for fans. It’s beyond obsession, it’s like a mental illness. I agree our line is not good, but I would contend our line right now is about as good as Green Bay’s.

Bottom line: drafting a bunch of high round offensive linemen would be foolish beyond words. Replace Houck with someone competent, and get a good play caller, and we will be a very good offense, even with Romo on the downside of his career.

by kindablue on Nov 11, 2011 2:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Good points, but there is

always two sides to every coin.

To me the most important concept is to insure that the Offense scores more points than the other teams offense. (I know, OBVIOUS, but bare with me here.)

As the great Bobby Lane once said, “I never lost a game in my life, I just ran out of time.”

This emphisizes the point that if the O-line can run block and pass block, then the offense can have a really high success in scoring a large percentage of the number of times it touches the ball.

If the other team is also good on offense, then it could come down to who scores last.

The center touches the ball more than the QB.

Any average QB in the NFL can complete passes if given enough time.

A below average QB can win the Superbowl with a really good O-line. Trent Dilfer anyone.

The failure to protect Brady in the Giants game was the key to the Giants victory.

You cant win games if the QB is on his back all the time.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 11, 2011 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh, and to be more clear,

I am not saying that the picks have to be all high picks, but rather the ones we pick need to be good ones.

Larry Allen was a 2nd round pick.

Having the best Oline does in no way mean they have to all be first round picks. Getting picked in the first round does not guarantee a great player, but making solid picks is the best way to build a team, for any position.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 11, 2011 2:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you're missing my point

Yes, good offenses generally have good offensive lines, but not always. Arizona in 2008 is an obvious example. The point I’m making is, if we want to have a good offensive line, most of it boils down to coaching, not investing in high draft picks. I can point to dozens of great offensive lines over the last 40 years that were not built on high draft picks. I just gave four examples, and from my research, they are very typical.

A great research project would be for someone to find a great offense that was made up of an o-line of all or nearly all high draft picks. I would venture to guess it simply don’t exist.

by kindablue on Nov 11, 2011 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

You always make sense,

but I think you missed my point as well.

I didnt mean to imply (if I did) that I was talking about all of them needing to be high draft picks, just that to me it is clear that you need a really good offensive line to build a great team.

Now obviously there are exceptions, but if you have an oline like we did in the Emmitt days, Nate Newton would tell the guy across from him "Here comes Emmitt into this “A” gap, try to stop him, and there would be a very nice hole for him more often than not.

And when Aikman was being protected by Eric Williams and Company, he was able to be Aikman.

Again, not saying ANYTHING about how high the picks need to be, just that they need to pan out.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 11, 2011 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

It helps to have a good offensive line

But I don’t think it’s a precondition for winning the Super Bowl. The Steelers and Bucs won Super Bowls with flat out bad offensive lines. The Cowboys offensive line looked terrible whenever Emmitt left the game. The current Packers offensive line is not very good either. So I think I half agree with you.

by kindablue on Nov 11, 2011 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree that it is not a precondition

and there are always exceptions.

Again my point is that I think “the most important group” on a team is the Offensive Line."

Meaning with a really good to great offensive line, you have the best shot to do some really good things, more so than any other group being the focus.

So, I dont think we were disagreeing as far as you HAVE to have a great Oline to win a Superbowl, or that you have to invest in top picks…..but rather that I think that group is THE most important group.

You make great points and I like that you keep it about the points and dont make it about us.

Great job!

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 11, 2011 4:56 PM CST up reply actions  

The Steelers and Bucs had stifling defenses

…which overcame poor opffensive line play.

I think those are harder to build and maintain than good O-lines.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 11, 2011 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with you

But wanted to give examples of high performing teams that had poor offensive lines. There’s plenty of folks (I’m thinking of BTB participants in general, no one in particular) who have believed the ONLY reason our offense isn’t better is because of the talent on our offensive line, with the implied solution that we need to sink more first day draft picks on linemen. I disagree completely, because that way lies the road to long-term ruin.

by kindablue on Nov 11, 2011 5:20 PM CST up reply actions  

So you think the issue is that Houck brought them down from where Sparano had raised them to?

Also, are you advocating the notion that ANY investment of a high pick (I.e. Tyron) is a poor one because the root cause of good/bad play is purely the skill of the position coach?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 11, 2011 5:09 PM CST up reply actions  

That's not quite exactly what I think

But it’s close. My point is coaching is orders of magnitude more important that athleticism to build a good offensive line. If pure talent was necessary to build a good line, why can I rattle off dozens of current and past examples of teams with outstanding lines but whose players have a median draft position in the fourth round?

I was against the Tyron pick, because a single digit draft position should net a truly impact player. Unless Tyron turns into Anthony Munoz, we lost an opportunity there.

by kindablue on Nov 11, 2011 5:27 PM CST up reply actions  

My answer
why can I rattle off dozens of current and past examples of teams with outstanding lines but whose players have a median draft position in the fourth round?

It’s simple – high draft position is no guarantee that you’ll get a player worth the investment.

But…assuming you can take 5 UDFA’s and coach them up (with the world’s best O-line coach) into an effective O-line? Probably not.

Anthony Munoz is still Anthony Munoz. Same goes for Joe Thomas and Ryan Clady and Jake Long.

 

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 11, 2011 5:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Let's do a quick experiment

Do you believe the same logic of draft position would apply to other positions on the team, like quarterback? Below you listed what were apparently your top dozen or so quarterbacks. Since the draft is an uncertain business, would not the same logic apply to them, and the best QBs in the league having a median draft position of the fourth round? How about cornerbacks and wide receivers?

by kindablue on Nov 11, 2011 5:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I think there are historical failure rates by position, aren't there?

My eyes tell me that highly drafted interior O-linemen tend to be pretty good bets relative to, say, pass rushers.

But that is purely anecdotal on my part.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 11, 2011 10:41 PM CST up reply actions  

If that's true

That highly drafted interior linemen are good bets, how do you reconcile that with the fact that the best historical offensive lines consistently are made up of low-round drafts and UFDAs? The two are mutually exclusive—if what you say is true, then the median draft position should be higher than the fourth round, should it not?

by kindablue on Nov 12, 2011 8:09 AM CST up reply actions  

That would be true if what you said originally was factual, but I'm not sure it is

If you look at the Cowboys’ history in the modern era, our best lineman was Larry Allen. He was also selected with the highest investment (draft position) in the Jerry Jones era up until this point.

The next guy after that? Take your pick between Erik Williams and Mark Stepnoski. Either way, both were 3rd rounders, which is once again, as big an investment you’ll see outside of Tyron Smith.

I’d say Dallas has benefitted mightily from investing early picks on the OL and, based on our history, warrants continued focus and investment there.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 12, 2011 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

You're switching subjects on me

It should not be greatly surprising the best offensive linemen were drafted highest, should it? It certainly doesn’t surprise me. But that’s a different position than what I was making. I was talking about great offensive lines, all five starters, and how hard it is to build one. My point is, contrary to the implications of many of the posts here, a team does not need to invest heavily in the draft to build a great offensive line. I’ve heard comments that with Tyron and Free, we need to sink more first- and second-rounders to fortify the interior of our o-line, so our line would be a fourth, two firsts, including a number nine pick, and at least one second to turn this thing around. My point is historically teams have built great lines with much less investment. If they can do it, why can’t we? It’s a critical point to understand when managing a team, but few people here seem to even understand what I’m saying, much less its importance.

by kindablue on Nov 13, 2011 8:24 AM CST up reply actions  

Let's back up

Texans O-line is good. The other two I like are the Bay Area teams, both of which have invested heavily in the draft on that group. I would be careful in saying that a formula for success there does NOT include investing heavily through the draft because of the few historical o-lines you selected being good examples of UDFA additions playing big roles.

Between the Texans, Niners and Raiders, there are more than a few high picks in that group of 15 players.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 15, 2011 8:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Hmm

I did hear at one point that o-line is the position where physical ability was the least important of all positions.

by Ben24626 on Nov 12, 2011 7:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Say more...

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 12, 2011 3:22 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm going of off PFF

I think their grades for linemen are accurate just because they’re in the picture on every play and thus are gradeable but fair enough if you don’t think so.

by Ben24626 on Nov 12, 2011 7:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Obviously you have to have more than

just a great Oline, but my point is it all starts up front.

The greatest axiom of all is “The game is won in the trenches!”

First the oline and next the dline as far a a group goes.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 11, 2011 3:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Dallas' Blings-winning teams all had great O-lines

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 11, 2011 5:14 PM CST up reply actions  

At least until Emmitt left the game

See the four games he missed in 1993, the offense came to screeching halt, and suddenly those All-Pros couldn’t block worth a damn. I can say that with confidence, because I watched the entire season a few months ago.

by kindablue on Nov 11, 2011 5:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, talent is one thing...effort is another

That line wasn’t going to provide anything for Derrick Lassic to run through. They wanted their guy back and they wanted to make sure he had enough money to buy them dinner and a Rolex.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 11, 2011 5:32 PM CST up reply actions  

LOL!

Let me make sure I understand this. The offensive line under Jimmy Johnson took whole games off, which forced them into a do-or-die situation over their last five games? C’mon, Blings, you can’t be serious. Where’s that smiley emoticon at the end of your message? :-)

by kindablue on Nov 11, 2011 5:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Okay, HALF tongue-in-cheek

But I absolutely believe that not having Emmitt there was like two triplets seeing their sibling taken away. It takes an emotional toll.

So while they didn’t shut it down, they certainly didn’t amp it up. Agreed?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 11, 2011 5:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Nope, I don't agree

I think it’s a speculative and highly implausible argument. If anything, my experience is a team plays harder when their star is out.

by kindablue on Nov 11, 2011 5:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Due to injury? okay

But not when it comes to employees and management. And that’s not speculative.

Methinks you may have to wrestle with that kind of illogical human behavior some day, my friend.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 11, 2011 10:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Then can you explain to me why

Their performance was equally bad the two games he was injured, as it was the two games he was holding out?

I’ve been in managerial positions for years now, so I’m well acquainted with the vagaries of human behavior, thank you.

by kindablue on Nov 12, 2011 7:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Then you understand solidarity in front line workers

I doubt people felt the same way with Lassic in there as they did with the guy who had just help lead the team to a Bling. Is that speculative? Absolutely. But is that really also so hard to fathom?

As for their performance, you know as well as I do, so much goes into that kind of evaluation. Who did they play? What were their strengths? Looking at it in a statistical vacuum isn’t appropriate with that small a sample size.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 12, 2011 2:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Eh

You’re just rationalizing now.

by kindablue on Nov 13, 2011 8:13 AM CST up reply actions  

If human nature is a rationalization

Okay.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 15, 2011 8:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Have you ever driven a rail spike

through a railroad tie with your tongue? Ha, I didn’t think so!

by kindablue on Nov 13, 2011 8:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Kinda, yeah, sometimes, don't you?

Nice thing is we got to keep the “wake up, Tony” snaps.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 8, 2011 11:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Sad but oddly comical at the same time...

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 11:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes, with D-Murray.

"Treat a person as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a person as if he were where he could be and should be, and he will become what he could be and should be." - Jimmy Johnson

by silverblue5 on Nov 9, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm like this...

What ever it takes to win. I don’t care if we ground and pound the ball. I don’t care if we turn into the Greatest show on turf. I just want to see my Boys hold up the lombardi trophy. And in the end, if Witten, Ware, Ratliff, Brooking want a ring too, they will agree to do whatever it takes to win too.

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Nov 8, 2011 5:05 PM CST reply actions  

Well, I don't think anyone disagrees with you, H31

…but you have to have a plan. And the plan we’ve got hasn’t made this an elite point-scoring offense despite the gaudy predictions in preseason.

Time for a change?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 7:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Plan? Plan 9

From outer space?

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 8, 2011 11:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Theres one more effect a running game could have in the long run.

Could extend Tony’s career. If it allows our QB to throw fewer times and still be effective then I’m all for it. Gives us more time to allow someone to stand behind Tony with a clipboard for a few years so we have someone effective when the time comes.

The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT

If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.

by Final Frame on Nov 8, 2011 5:39 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

The question then becomes...

… will the Terryfying One accept his obsession garnering lesser stats for an increased chance at a ring? Rings? Or none, but to simply see him play more, longer? These and many more questions remain to be answered following the sounding of the Romodar’s 9-alarm warning system.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 8, 2011 6:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Very true

It certainly extended Elway’s career.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 7:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think your analogy works very well. "Second fiddle," for all your disclaimers,

does imply a “game manager” in a just-there-to-hand-the-ball-off role. While I’m well aware that there are more than a few who would love to see Romo reduced to that, I don’t see Garrett going for it. Moreover, lest we forget, both touchdowns scored last weekend were off the arm of Romo. If you want to use the orchestra/fiddle analogy, I think Romo as conductor and Murray as violin virtuoso might be more apt.

That said, I’m all for more balance. I’m all for an offense that is not so one-dimensional that Romo has no margin for error while the defenses he faces can send seven D backs roaming the backfield daring him to throw (see Philly game). I’m all for an offensive line that pass protects and opens up running lanes. I’m all for a defense that is good enough to allow the offense to make a mistake without it turning into utter disaster. That’s what an orchestra is; it’s a large collection of musicians and their instruments that work in harmony to make beautiful music.

by Fernie67 on Nov 8, 2011 6:57 PM CST reply actions  

Despite the implications you see (obviously I don't)...

I have to ask you about these combos;

Was Favre a game manager when coupled with Adrian Peterson 2 years ago?

Is Mike Vick a game manager with LeSean McCoy going off like he is (goodness knows I haven’t seen Reid and Mornhinweg call so many runs before)?

Is Cutler managing the game with Matt Forte being the 1st option?

I see it like Superman and Batman. When they team up, each understands the other’s strengths and weaknesses. Batman is hardly a game manager.

Look, a more balanced attack just means a ratio that has fewer pass plays and more run plays. It doesn’t mean we might not pass more than we run, especially if you take the end of the halves into consideration.

No. Not a game manager. Romo, in this new world, would still be called upon, on occasion, to carry the team to a win on the strength of an aerial attack. It just won’t be the lead option in most games.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 7:36 PM CST up reply actions  

No, nor was Favre "second fiddle." Can you imagine anyone calling him that? Neither

was Green Bay a run-first team like your last line seems to imply. Now, Philly probably is, at least in the sense that Vick is as close to a run-first QB as you can get. Cutler and Forte? Again, I don’t see a run-first team. You’re mixing your message with your examples. I also think you’d have to get rid of Garrett if you want the run to predominate. What I’d like to see is flexible game planning that involves taking what the other D gives you. Don’t force Romo to be the main guy if you’ve got those seven D backs daring him to throw; make them pay by gashing them with the run. And vice versa. I want this team to have the luxury of not depending on Romo all the time. I agree with you that Romo wouldn’t care; does he seem put out by what Murray is accomplishing? Hell no. He seems relieved. But that depends on the O line; he said it himself. Notice the protection Cutler had last night against the same team we played last week? Of course, it also helped that Chicago has a better D (did you see those MLBs?) than the Cowboys have. Like I said, for all that you and others have chosen to focus your ire on Romo, it’s a team thang, just like an orchestra.

by Fernie67 on Nov 8, 2011 8:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Hold the phone!

First, I think you’re looking at this through “these guys all hate Romo” lenses and that’s not the case.

You’re misinterpreting run-first with run-more-than-pass. I’m not sure anyone does that anymore.

But the fact is we watched those same Bears beat the team we got our lunches eaten by last night and they ran more than they passed. Does that mean that’s their formula? No. But it means, and the fact that Matt Forte is responsible for more of his team’s offensive touches than any non-QB in the NFL, that they have developed a balanced attack that can use the run as a lead option to take the pressure off of Cutler. You talk about the protection Cutler had? I think the long drives that had a good mix of runs made Castillo think twice about losing run gap integrity. I don’t think he worried about that against us after about 8 plays into the game.

Let me be clear – just because the run game might be your bread and butter, it doesn’t mean you’ll run the ball more times than you throw it. Far from it. In fact, I think we see how teams like Pittsburgh use the run to set up plays for Roethlisberger to go much further downfield than Romo. My contention is that Mendenhall and that running game affords Big Ben opportunities that Romo just doesn’t have. The same way Cutler had less to contend with last night.

Finally, I have to say that Brian Urlacher is a monster. That guy is special. His combination of instincts, mobility and physicality are truly rare.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 10:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Actually, I didn't refer to "hate." That's Terry's thing. I said ire, and you and I both

know that you have a very low regard for Romo. But that’s fine; my point is that a whole lot of things have to fall into place for all of this to work, including consistency by the O line. I’ll take it a step further; as Troy just tweeted tonight referring to Murray, “Looks to be the real deal but too soon to know for sure.” You’re already comparing him to the best backs in the league. I hope that’s exactly what he becomes, but let’s hold the anointing oil until he does it against the Giants and Eagles the Sequel. Hell, let’s hope he gets the chance, since I’m not sure Felix won’t be starting again pretty soon.

As for the rest; tan is mostly right. You say tomato, I say tomahto, but if the run games makes Romo’s life easier and the offense more effective, awesome.

Agreed on Urlacher.

by Fernie67 on Nov 8, 2011 11:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I've been fair and balanced (always wanted to say that) about Romo

Called him out for being a hero and for being a loose cannon (always wanted to say that too!).

If, in the eyes of the segment of the population who thinks he does no wrong, that makes me out to be someone who has alow opinion of him, so be it.

I have dated my fair share of women so I am comfortable having been right and still having lost arguments before.

:-)

As for Murray, I think judging RB’s is much easier, and can be done with far less of a body of work, than judging QB’s. They have short football life spans so when they give you a double overhead bowl to ride, get your board and go, man. JUST GO!

If Garrett puts Felix back in as the #1, then you’ll see real ire in my writing…and it won’t be directed at Romo.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 11:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Fair and balanced like Fox News? As for this:
If, in the eyes of the segment of the population who thinks he does no wrong, that makes me out to be someone who has alow opinion of him, so be it.

Let’s leave Terry out of this.

On Murray, you’ll pardon me if I go with Troy’s judgment, however impeccable yours apparently is. :-)

On Felix, this will be interesting. Will Jerry get a say?

by Fernie67 on Nov 8, 2011 11:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Well we agree on one thing

…my impeccable judgement. ;-)

On Jerry, does he ever not get a say? The good news is that I think his input will be tempered by the other 2/3 of the Trinity.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 11:51 PM CST up reply actions  

There are people who are trained to read a person's nonverbal communication

I’m not one of them, but it will be interesting to see what people think if Felix regains his starting role. I wonder if Garrett might betray something if Jerry makes a call he doesn’t agree with?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 11:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe, maybe not

But his ayes I’s eyes may be a more accurate indicator.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 9, 2011 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I posted this just recently and it deserves saying again.

“I think Jerry gets too much criticism for being too hands on. However, I have read tons of articles by people who deal with him and they say he is not that guy that many portray him to be.

Example #1:
http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/news.cfm?id=5330AE0F-D029-654E-864639501FD903F6

Quote from that article:
"Josh: No, it’s not going to happen. Everyone should’ve accepted that fact long ago. It’s his company, and this is the way he wants to run it. But you have to know he isn’t as hands-on as most people perceive him to be. Jerry takes advice from the entire front office, and tries to reach a consensus. Some of those people could change, but he will still be the GM."

Another article that says Jason is in charge:
http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/7205166/given-time-jason-garrett-build-consistent-winner-dallas

Quote from that article:
"Everyone in the locker room knows and understands who’s running the team.

That wasn’t the case under Phillips, Dave Campo, Chan Gailey or Barry Switzer.

All you have to do is ask the veterans, who said goodbye to friends Andre Gurode, Marion Barber and Leonard Davis after the lockout ended, whether Garrett’s in control.

An insecure coach would’ve never played the opener with essentially three rookies on the offensive line, because he’d have been afraid of losing games and credibility.

For those of you whining about why David Buehler and Martellus Bennett remain on the roster, you have to understand Garrett can’t get rid of everybody at once.

Next year, Keith Brooking, Bradie James, Bennett and others will be gone."

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I am betting that DeMarco gets the most

carries.

When Miles had his breakout game, he stayed the starter.

When Jerry wanted to keep T.O., the rest of the staff held the “concensus” that T.O. had to go.

T.O. was sent packing even thou Jerry wanted to keep him.

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 9, 2011 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

yup agreed there,

i just think Jason is moving out the old and not going anywhere to the up and comers.

woman !, don't try to understand em, don't try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
(redskins)= A Tale of 2 owners, bought by Snyder, OWNED by the COWBOYS
Id say RIP Al Davis, but i know your up there drunker than a monkey and clocking angels in the 40 yd dash.

by demonbane on Nov 9, 2011 3:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Dallas is at the pinnacle of marketing and spin management

They have been for some time now.

Credit goes to Rich Dalrymple. He’s like Karl Rove. He sits in the background and manages the media in a way that keeps Dallas eternally relevant and newsworthy but seldom allows negative press to latch onto the king.

Jerry is who he is.

The question is, who are Jason Garrett and Stephen Jones?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

The question
The question is, who are Jason Garrett and Stephen Jones?

They are the next generation. Jerry has to retire at some point, either that or I think Stephen can logically push him out.

The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT

If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.

by Final Frame on Nov 9, 2011 3:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't see it as a flash cut

I think Jerry will allow himself to be swayed more and more as time goes on.

That will allow this Trinity to take the wheel and steer as a group.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll take that

Then JJ trying to come up with his own flash moves.

The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT

If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.

by Final Frame on Nov 10, 2011 2:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Let's hope I am right

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 10, 2011 11:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I might snap if Felix gets more carries over DeMarco

Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!

Follow me at my blog
http://chiacrackscowboysblog.wordpress.com/

by Archie Barberio on Nov 9, 2011 3:42 AM CST up reply actions  

I think thats when JG and company will go business style on JJ

Look JJ don’t you want a team that wins, gets even more popular, goes into the playoffs and makes MORE money? Felix is a good role guy and you had a hand getting him here just like you had a hand with Murray. Lets just go with the flow….

The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT

If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.

by Final Frame on Nov 9, 2011 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

lol u and me both lol ......

ill hit em so hard that his eyes bounce left to right..lol oh hell ill just pin-ball em

woman !, don't try to understand em, don't try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
(redskins)= A Tale of 2 owners, bought by Snyder, OWNED by the COWBOYS
Id say RIP Al Davis, but i know your up there drunker than a monkey and clocking angels in the 40 yd dash.

by demonbane on Nov 9, 2011 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Their whole LB corps looked awesome.

Agree completely on Urlacher. Briggs is no slouch.

"Everything is on the One." -- George Clinton, Parliament/Funkadelic

With an improved defense, everything should be on the One.

by Uncle Angus on Nov 9, 2011 6:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Don't see the "Romo ire" bit

Since you say you do I’ll accept that you do. I don’t. And not much in way of difference between your position and Blings’, to boot.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 8, 2011 11:17 PM CST up reply actions  

....is the o line good enough ?

and will Garrett set aside his ego ?

Jerry is the end all in Dallas.

by football mensa on Nov 9, 2011 5:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Say more about what you mean by Garrett's ego...

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 10:16 AM CST up reply actions  

He means its all garretts fault

You know the remote controllers he has plugged into all his players to make them execute exactly as they should.

The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT

If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.

by Final Frame on Nov 9, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Don't you think the emergence of the power running game with Murray might help there?

Felix between the tackles down there was getting nowhere.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 11, 2011 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

What is the Black Hoe Theory?

"....the Cowboy way...." (Head Coach, Jason Garrett)

by BishopWest on Nov 8, 2011 10:28 PM CST reply actions  

haha - I mean the Black Hole Theory?

"....the Cowboy way...." (Head Coach, Jason Garrett)

by BishopWest on Nov 8, 2011 10:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I don’t fully understand Stephen Hawking’s Black Hole Theory (Lisa Randall’s ideas are much cooler anyway).

"....the Cowboy way...." (Head Coach, Jason Garrett)

by BishopWest on Nov 8, 2011 10:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Basically, after playing with gamma rays (no, not the ones in the Hulk) he suggested that miniature black holes were formed after the Big Bang and mathematically grounded an argument that all black holes had the same general properties. From there he determined that they emit energy that, over time, fizzles out.

Like I said, Lisa Randall (look her up) is much more pop-culture friendly.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 11:22 PM CST up reply actions  

pop-culture friendly = hotter in Blingspeak

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 8, 2011 11:44 PM CST up reply actions  

She was on Colbert not too long ago

Great legs for a Physics Prof at Harvard.

I guess that means…you are correct sir.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 11:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Got it, thanks

"....the Cowboy way...." (Head Coach, Jason Garrett)

by BishopWest on Nov 9, 2011 8:30 AM CST up reply actions  

It gets even crazier...

at first, Hawking thought you could move bodies through black holes into “other” universes (notice I didn’t say parallel) and then come back out the same as you went in at some point.

He later revised that whole theory and said if you went in one way, you would not only NOT find other universes, but you, and “you” means bodies comprised of particles organized in a certain and specific way, would come back to our universe in an unrecognizable form. Makes me a bit queasy to think about…

BTW, do any of you actually watch Big Bang theory or are my references there falling on deaf ears?

I can do Archer or any of the Sunday night HBO shows if that resonates better.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 10:21 AM CST up reply actions  

I have become a loyal Archer viewer

Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/

by Seanrude on Nov 9, 2011 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Does it not rock?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

I had something for this..

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Creasy729 on Nov 9, 2011 11:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Creasy!

Where have you been hiding?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 11:45 PM CST up reply actions  

It's the same for the black hoe theory
miniature black holes were formed after the Big Bang and mathematically grounded an argument that all black holes had the same general properties

by Ben24626 on Nov 9, 2011 8:02 PM CST up reply actions  

JEEZ!!!!

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 10:31 PM CST up reply actions  

No way

…that’s a Duke men’s lacrosse nightmare waiting to happen.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 8, 2011 11:49 PM CST up reply actions  

LOL

"....the Cowboy way...." (Head Coach, Jason Garrett)

by BishopWest on Nov 9, 2011 8:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Question-

First of all… I am ecstatic to have been wrong about Murray. I think he may be the missing piece to this offense. Is there still room on the Murray bandwagon?

But I do have a concern…

He reminds me of Felix when he first came into the league. I remember Felix’s first year he averaged something like 8 yards a carry. Jimmyk even said he was the most explosive player in the NFC East.

If you could go back in time and limit Felix’s carries somewhat to try and prolong that electric ability would you do it? If so, what is wrong with limiting Murray’s? Everyone knows Demarco has a lot of tread on his tires at Ok.

MacGruber!

by Mojoness on Nov 9, 2011 7:47 AM CST reply actions  

Warning

Said before in another comment thread, but jumping on this or any other (other than a one pulled by draft horses and loaded with draught) is ill-advised.

Best hold off on annointing this team, Murray or any of it just quite yet. While there’re glimpses, there’s a looong ways to go in many a respect. Including Murray as "it" running-game-wise, Dez/Austin, even Robinson receiving-wise, Romo, Witten, Ware, Garrett, Ryan and all the rest team-wise.

Glimpses. Now open my eyes. Please. Open them with a 2nd half that makes a memory.

That said, your concern’s warranted, the concept of establishing the balance between longevity/“hothandedness” both with respect to individual and team immediate and long-term gain a wise one, though the trick’s in finding it. Even in that wording.

And if you could go back in Time, you may find a “solution” ain’t. And sauce for the goose may not be sauce for the gander, unless the goose is one, for all things aren’t equal merely by one being a goose, one being a gander.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 9, 2011 8:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Like I said

Break out the oil. Pour it all over him.

I’m going out on a limb and saying he’s Neo.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 10:29 AM CST up reply actions  

So

As far as goose sauce goes, is hind-sight 20/30? Maybe 20/50? Those ignoring history are doomed to- blah blah blah… (3 blahs!)

Just for the sake of flip-flopping, If the trick’s in finding it would you look in between the tackles? It seems this team isn’t really built for that. So maybe my concern isn’t war rented with Garret drawing things up we can let Demarco be the Demarco he was in college.

As far as Demarco being it… He is who he is. I think he may be sucking up anointing oil like a gorilla downing banana smoothies. (Hey speaking of oil, anybody have any? This band wagon wheel has a bit of a squeak.)

MacGruber!

by Mojoness on Nov 9, 2011 10:31 AM CST up reply actions  

My work here is done.

Well done. Well played. Welcome to the rubber room.

Run DMC.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 9, 2011 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

the rubber room?

should I condom, condemn, or condone going there?

"....the Cowboy way...." (Head Coach, Jason Garrett)

by BishopWest on Nov 9, 2011 3:01 PM CST up reply actions  

No

Murray is getting his yards because he has better instincts than any RB we’ve had in Dallas since…never mind.

The part I really like about Murray is that he breaks tackles and Felix has NEVER had that capability, despite what the stat geeks will tell you about his yards after contact. It makes you wonder what games they watch.

Murray, if he can stay healthy, could be the real deal.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 10:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Still as far as breaking tackles

Felix is better than Julius was

MacGruber!

by Mojoness on Nov 9, 2011 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Which says absoltely nothing since they both go down on finger tackles

Julius fell down on the spot. Felix falls down at an angle and gets us an extra half yard.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 11:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Absolutely

As long as he holds onto the ball, I’d prefer to see the ball in his hands more and more.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 3:41 PM CST up reply actions  

yep

"....the Cowboy way...." (Head Coach, Jason Garrett)

by BishopWest on Nov 9, 2011 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Use Murray like a paper towel.

Soak up all that you can, wring him out, soak it up again and keep using it until the towel is ripped.

Then pull another one off the roll.

Thats the (un?)fortunate life of an NFL running back.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

"Meanwhile, like a bitter wine, Philadelphia’s jealousy fermented in the dark cellars of pride and resentment. With no playoff hopes of their own, Eagles fans turned towards hating the Cowboys." Steve Sabol, NFL films

by Nickthegrip on Nov 9, 2011 2:32 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

sounds like what we did to MB3

"....the Cowboy way...." (Head Coach, Jason Garrett)

by BishopWest on Nov 9, 2011 3:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah pretty much.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not heartless, even though that’s what’s portrayed above. NFL RB1 is a thankless position – you go go go go go until your get up and go got up and went, that’s simply the life of the NFL back – Barry Sanders and Gale Sayers are the only ones that I can think of that walked out on top.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

"Meanwhile, like a bitter wine, Philadelphia’s jealousy fermented in the dark cellars of pride and resentment. With no playoff hopes of their own, Eagles fans turned towards hating the Cowboys." Steve Sabol, NFL films

by Nickthegrip on Nov 9, 2011 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Gale Sayers didn't walk out on top

Both of his knees popped and after the second one went, he was unable to come back and perform the role he loved so much.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

You are correct.

But I guess you knew that already :) The question is, who the hell was I thinking of?

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

"Meanwhile, like a bitter wine, Philadelphia’s jealousy fermented in the dark cellars of pride and resentment. With no playoff hopes of their own, Eagles fans turned towards hating the Cowboys." Steve Sabol, NFL films

by Nickthegrip on Nov 9, 2011 7:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Jim Brown

Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/

by Seanrude on Nov 9, 2011 8:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Nah

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 11:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Nah?

Man damn near out-ran out-toughed bullets, kilt hisself a slew of nazis, remains in the RB all-timer discussions 45+ years gone by and stands yet as one tough ol’ coot, to boot.

Nah?!

I get what’s behind the Bettis bit, was glad it was guys like Payton, Bettis, that what’s-his-name-guy that bested Brown’s rushing record and not scamper-for-the-sidelines Harris, but, seriously, Nah?!

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 10, 2011 10:36 AM CST up reply actions  

I know what you were and are suggesting

And am suggesting perhaps a revision of perception. Fully realising Brown’s final game vs the next-year-1st-SB-winning Packers was a Clevland loss. That the “high note” basis of that judgment call is a tad off the mark in being single-game focused rather than team, league and season, numercially and accolades-wise.

I understand the single-game “high note” criteria you’re basing it on.

Some songs, like old soldiers, fade quietly, softly. Not needing “high notes” in either the end or long-run.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 10, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think JB thinks he walked out on top

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 10, 2011 11:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Walked out on top with a championship? Obviously not

Walked out on top as the best player in the game? Yes he did

Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/

by Seanrude on Nov 11, 2011 6:55 AM CST up reply actions  

And nah

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 10, 2011 11:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Murray's tude.....

scat DM seems very in control and determined,kinda like a quiet storm brewing. He doesnt seem to me as a diva act or its all about me! attitude. Murray gives off the feeling that he comes to work with the mindset of team 1st and doing his job best he can. D’Marco sees the holes and hits em with authority and power, while he doesnt have Tony Dorsett’s extra gear, he has enough to take it to the house. I like this kid a lot, what a steal in the 3rd round.

woman !, don't try to understand em, don't try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
(redskins)= A Tale of 2 owners, bought by Snyder, OWNED by the COWBOYS
Id say RIP Al Davis, but i know your up there drunker than a monkey and clocking angels in the 40 yd dash.

by demonbane on Nov 9, 2011 3:25 PM CST reply actions  

5Blings, I will say that Romo is not second fiddle

I am the first on this board to point out his problems.
I will also be the first to point to when he does good. The things I have pointed to with his mechanics are things that will separate him from a top 10 to an elite QB. But come on, a top 10 can win a SB. And a top 10 can take us a long way.
You are so focused on just the QB and Bashing our RB’s.
Tell me mechanics or technique wise where our problems are. I have stated more then once about the specifics where our problems are.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

How do you want to be rememberd. Go out there and play every play like it is your last play. Be remembered as the person you want to be for the rest of your life. Spike Dykes, Midland Lee and Texas Tech Coach.

by Birddog26 on Nov 9, 2011 10:52 PM CST reply actions  

He's not...but should he be?

I am no expert on mechanics and I’ll leave that sort of thing to people like you.

What I will say, however, is that I believe you and I agre that Romo’s mechanics are not going to change any time soon, correct?

I think you have to ask yourself if Romo is truly playing like a top 10 QB. I don’t think he is.

I do think, however, that Murray is playing like a top 10 RB.

If I am right, why not ride him to some important wins and make Tony’s life easier?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 9, 2011 11:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Romo is a top 10 QB

His mechanics looked much better this last game and Murray is still running like a top 10 back. I do not think either needs to be second fiddle. Just like I do not think anyone would have called Aikman second fiddle to Smith or the other way around.
I do think that Romo needs to get a good off season coach to work with to take his game to the next level. Brady has had Tom Martinez, Rodgers has had Angelo Poli, and Brees works out with Todd Durkin.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

How do you want to be rememberd. Go out there and play every play like it is your last play. Be remembered as the person you want to be for the rest of your life. Spike Dykes, Midland Lee and Texas Tech Coach.

by Birddog26 on Nov 11, 2011 12:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Brady, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Brees, Eli, Schaub, Vick, Ryan, Stafford, Fitzpatrick, Dalton, Cutler

Who would you supplant on that list with Romo?

I’d contend that allof those players would have this team performing better than 4-4 if put in Tony’s position.

Also, I agree with you and still think Romo misses David Lee.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 11, 2011 5:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Vick and Ryan is a no

Dalton, not yet but very close. Romo a yes. Add Cam Newton. I was a big, huge critic of Cam but he did everything right in the off season and camp and all week to make me eat my words. I look at his mechanics and they are spot on. He is also handling himself in the most professional manner. But I put Romo at 7 or 8 this season.
5Blings, just get on the Romo is a good QB bandwagon, but not elite yet. I think the kid can do it.
Now for training camp next season, are you and I going out for drinks and debate along with dinner.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

How do you want to be rememberd. Go out there and play every play like it is your last play. Be remembered as the person you want to be for the rest of your life. Spike Dykes, Midland Lee and Texas Tech Coach.

by Birddog26 on Nov 11, 2011 8:29 PM CST up reply actions  

He is a good QB, but he has never been and may never be, elite

BTW, I put up 12, so even if you pull one out (as you did with Dalton), you still have to put Romo at the back of that line, which keeps him out of the top 10 conversation. Then, as you say, he has to contend with Dalton, Newton and that list doesn’t even have Peyton. Eventually, you end up asking whether or not Romo is a top 14 QB?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 11, 2011 10:48 PM CST up reply actions  

IMHO Romo is about 7 or 8

He is very good. Not elite yet but close. He has what it takes to get there,

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

How do you want to be rememberd. Go out there and play every play like it is your last play. Be remembered as the person you want to be for the rest of your life. Spike Dykes, Midland Lee and Texas Tech Coach.

by Birddog26 on Nov 12, 2011 12:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Yet?

Romo won’t be getting any better. The odds of a 31-year old quarterback sustainably improving his game at that age is very slim. He’s not a young man any more.

by kindablue on Nov 12, 2011 7:39 AM CST up reply actions  

I think you have not been to one of my programs

He is at a good age where he is fully matured mentally and at QB getting into shape is not bad. It is still all about mechanics at this age and we will see how he does. He has picked up a coach to help him about a week and a half ago so let us give him four or five weeks and see how he does.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

How do you want to be rememberd. Go out there and play every play like it is your last play. Be remembered as the person you want to be for the rest of your life. Spike Dykes, Midland Lee and Texas Tech Coach.

by Birddog26 on Nov 13, 2011 11:36 PM CST up reply actions  

This week

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

How do you want to be rememberd. Go out there and play every play like it is your last play. Be remembered as the person you want to be for the rest of your life. Spike Dykes, Midland Lee and Texas Tech Coach.

by Birddog26 on Nov 16, 2011 12:29 AM CST up reply actions  

And Kiss the Baby 5Blings

You know where I am coming from bud with this, Great respect for you.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

How do you want to be rememberd. Go out there and play every play like it is your last play. Be remembered as the person you want to be for the rest of your life. Spike Dykes, Midland Lee and Texas Tech Coach.

by Birddog26 on Nov 16, 2011 12:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Not so sure Cutler belongs on that list

but 11 out of 12 ain’t bad

"....the Cowboy way...." (Head Coach, Jason Garrett)

by BishopWest on Nov 12, 2011 3:17 AM CST up reply actions  

I was thinking about how they are playing to date in 2011

He wouldn’t be up there for his body of work (Peyton Manning would replace him though), but given what he’s had to work with? With his # 1 being Earl Bennett (I know, who?) and an O-line that would make ours look like the 90’s Cowboys lines?

Cutler impresses me more and more as I watch him play.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 12, 2011 2:19 PM CST up reply actions  

With Murray running the ball, the O-line has suddenly looked a lot less like the train wreck they looked like with Felix running it

As stated above, how did they suddenly become good road graders for Murray and not so good for Felix?

It begs the question, have we been blaming them unfairly for a poor running game?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 10, 2011 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Takes 2 to tango

Finger-pointing blame game’s so much more “fair” the more fingers there are in the pie and given. Me, I like the single-digit version. No question who’s responsible then.

Begs the question, why bother?

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Nov 10, 2011 12:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh I think theres been lots of that

In fact I think we churned that poor horse to glue.

The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT

If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.

by Final Frame on Nov 10, 2011 2:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Plenty!!!

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 11, 2011 5:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Great stuff as usual Blings.

Since joining the BTB community I have been exposed to evermore sophisticated sampling plans, derivatives, statistics turned inside out, upside down, debated to the inth power, and agreed upon…by some. I’ve fallen for it, argued against, contemplated, investigated, posted objections, returned to square one, and spent much too much time defending it all. Why? Because the next game proved the latest theory wrong. Yet, there must be an answer somewhere. You have again succeeded in causing a pondering.

What really is the common denominator in all of these Cowboy season score statistics? Lineman? Only Kosier remains…sort of. He certainly is not at his peak anymore. He’s pushed around a little bit too much for my taste. Could be a factor. TE? He was, and still is, very good. Probably not the problem. QB? Well….YEAH! Offensive coordinator? Check. Runningback? Well, no. WR? Not. It seems we have two common denominators from which to assess.

Okay, more. What can be gleaned? Quarterback play was impressive in 2007. Doesn’t that prove he can do the job? His numbers for the most part are still impressive. Offensive coordinator? Their game doesn’t really fall off like a player. They can remain in their prime for a long time.

Okay, let’s assume for just a moment that Romo can still get it done. Jason Garrett, less Tony Sporano, still knows how to call an offense. In 2007, that was the heyday of the Barbarian. He was bulling over defenses and making a name for himself. He was a touchdown machine. He got the tough yards, and hence, the scores, and next first downs. He put games away. In 2007 a diva WR, that dude Terrell Owens was shredding all defenses. Romo was going downfield on a regular basis. A point I think you’ve made before, Bling. TO and Barber alone accounted for 25 tds. Crayton and Witten added another 14. That’s 343 points (assuming extra points). Plus you have your field goals and other miscellaneous scores.

Conclusions, if any? You may be onto something here. Murray may be the missing piece when comparing 2007 to the present. However it won’t be the whole answer. The receiving corp. must step up too. The top three accounted for 29 tds in 2007. Do we need a lead dog? Perhaps this team can’t coexist with multiple lead dogs. Maybe Romo doesn’t have the ability to keep them all fed. Nah, I don’t really buy that. He just needs more time. The offensive line doesn’t yet have the ability to give him that kind of time on a consistent basis, and we can’t keep our receivers on the field.

My vote is the offense is virtually rebuilt from 2007, but not fully, and thus can’t really be equitably compared. It is not yet the complete puzzle. It is an unfinished painting. A work in progress. Guards and a center please. What would happen if we tried Holland and Dockery at the Guard positions? Well now, releasing Gurode may have been more of a factor than first thought. We could have had a better line.

We’re not far. There’s light at the end of the tunnel. At least…until the next factor is introduced.

Who are you? And how did you get in here?
I'm a locksmith..and..I'm a locksmith. -- Frank Drebin.

by White Wolf on Nov 11, 2011 12:11 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Thanks WW

Romo is on the wrong side of 30 and missing time due to injuries every year seems almost a guarantee.

I’m not sure he has much time left before he goes to that light he sees at the tunnel’s end.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 11, 2011 5:40 PM CST up reply actions  

That thought is in a lot of people's minds.

I’ll go ahead and let it out. I’ve been thinking for a while how much I’d like to see us draft Landry Jones. We obviously don’t have a shot at Andrew Luck, and probably don’t even have a realistic shot at Jones, but I’d sacrifice almost anything in the draft to go after a young franchise QB.

Who are you? And how did you get in here?
I'm a locksmith..and..I'm a locksmith. -- Frank Drebin.

by White Wolf on Nov 11, 2011 5:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Romo can still be the guy for another

4-6 years, but then I may be blinded by my heart. Doesnt happen often, but Romo has the talent. He has one of the top 3 quick releases of all time, maybe even the quickest.

He really knows how to read defenses. He is very smart. His one failing in my view is that when this team has a chink in its armour, Romo will try too hard to carry the team and thus will take too many chances. All that is needed to fix that deficiency is a really good running game.

The cure is in my opinion named DeMarco Murray and the best Oline we can put together. With those two things, we are back to the promised land….

Been wrong before, in fact some days I only open my mouth to change feet!

If the play works, never run it again. If it fails, keep running it.
First and goal at the one. Run it three times in a row, and then kick a field goal. Sound familiar?

by CoachGary on Nov 11, 2011 9:33 PM CST up reply actions  

How many times has Romo played a full season?

The injuries get harder and harder to come back from with every passing year.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 11, 2011 10:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Since he's been starter

He’s started all games in 2007 and 2009. I agree injuries are becoming a greater concern with him, and he won’t be getting any more durable as time goes on.

by kindablue on Nov 12, 2011 7:41 AM CST up reply actions  

I hear ya Coach. I've been wrong before.

Truth be told, we don’t have a chance in hell at getting Landry Jones. But if we somehow did, through equitable trade, or him just being there, I’d pull the trigger. And let me qualify this; my confidence in this team’s ability to get good football players at other positions in subsequent rounds is a little higher than it was a couple of years ago. It will go up another notch if Bruce Carter comes on.

Who are you? And how did you get in here?
I'm a locksmith..and..I'm a locksmith. -- Frank Drebin.

by White Wolf on Nov 12, 2011 7:41 AM CST up reply actions  

There's variables.

My knee jerk reaction is to not rush him. I’d want the best possible situation to put him in. But when he’s ready, I’d pull the trigger. As I recall a reporter asked one of the Steeler lineman if he was excited when Rothlesberger was forced to start due to Tommy Maddox’ injury. The lineman was incensed, saying of course he wasn’t excited. Rothlesberger was a rookie. Actually, Big Ben played well, mainly because he was surrounded by veterans. He was talented, but he had the best possible situation.

Who are you? And how did you get in here?
I'm a locksmith..and..I'm a locksmith. -- Frank Drebin.

by White Wolf on Nov 12, 2011 9:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Landry, I would sit 2 maybe 3 years with the Boys.

But we will never be in range in the first round to take him. Any other team, start him. I think he is a top 15 and should start in the first year. If we are choosing that high I would take a guard in the first, a CB in the second, Want a starter in the 3rd take a safety. 4 th for me now take a QB, I have a few Ideas on some good QB’s who are in schemes that scouts say will never work in the NFL but who have great mechanics and strong arms. Give them 2 years and they will be better than any QB the Boys have had.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

How do you want to be rememberd. Go out there and play every play like it is your last play. Be remembered as the person you want to be for the rest of your life. Spike Dykes, Midland Lee and Texas Tech Coach.

by Birddog26 on Nov 13, 2011 11:44 PM CST up reply actions  

There are no top 15 Guards this year

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 15, 2011 9:01 PM CST up reply actions  

There are 3 tackles in college that could be converted to guards in the NFL

All 3 would be very good and all three are top 15 picks and rated as T/G by almost all scouts.

Matt Kalil USC
Jonathan Martin,Stanford ( if Luck comes out he will to)
 Riley Reiff,Iowa

And a couple of more outside the top 15

 Cordy Glenn, Georgia
David DeCastro, Stanford

Lets throw in a center also
Peter Konz, Wisconsin (if you want a center, take him, not much else in this draft.)

All first round picks. Bet you diner when I am out for training camp. And you can show me Santa Barbra also. That would be fun for both of us. Talks and debates between you and I. Over a bottle of scotch or a bottle of wine would be great.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

How do you want to be rememberd. Go out there and play every play like it is your last play. Be remembered as the person you want to be for the rest of your life. Spike Dykes, Midland Lee and Texas Tech Coach.

by Birddog26 on Nov 16, 2011 1:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Consensus? No.

He’ll go anywhere from 2 to 10. Four should go in the top ten. Griffin, Barkley, Jones, and Luck are all going high barring any catastrophic change. Landry is my consensus pick though. He’s got the size, arm strength, potential, and pedigree I’m looking for. I know we need help at many other positions. This is almost a fantasy, but it’s the first time in years I kind of identified a QB I’d like to see us go after. It is what it is.

And you? Would you pass on CB, DL, or OL to get a QB in the 1st if he was there? If so, who?

Who are you? And how did you get in here?
I'm a locksmith..and..I'm a locksmith. -- Frank Drebin.

by White Wolf on Nov 12, 2011 6:33 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm a BPA/PON kind of guy

I look at the Best Player Available at what I believe will be any Position Of Need in the next 3 seasons.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 12, 2011 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm a BPA kind of guy too.

But of course, you know, if we were to land Landry, chances are he would be the BPA.

Who are you? And how did you get in here?
I'm a locksmith..and..I'm a locksmith. -- Frank Drebin.

by White Wolf on Nov 12, 2011 9:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Which QB would you take of Landry, Barkley, or Griffin?

Who are you? And how did you get in here?
I'm a locksmith..and..I'm a locksmith. -- Frank Drebin.

by White Wolf on Nov 12, 2011 9:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Neither

I’d take Morris Claiborne.

Okay, if I must…probably Jones.

But I like Nick Foles as a 2nd round option a lot too.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 12, 2011 11:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I like to consider

The value of the position quite strongly as well. For example the Giants taking Jason Pierre Paul is looking pretty good right now.

by Ben24626 on Nov 13, 2011 12:04 AM CST up reply actions  

Indeed

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Nov 15, 2011 9:01 PM CST up reply actions  

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