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Vick v Romo: Different Shades Of Gray

After watching Eli Manning dissect a secondary that left receivers so open that he could have successfully performed the operation with a hatchet, I had a moment of enlightenment:

All quarterbacks fall along a continuum in how they achieve success.

For a change, I do not have any statistics to verify this theory. This is purely an observational analysis: more on why this is so in a moment.

In order to better understand this quarterbacking concept, I broke up the continuum into categories. As with all continuums, there are no obvious criteria separating adjacent categories. It is much like crossing over from Nebraska to Colorado on I-76. If not for the sign at the state line, you would not know you were in Colorado until the Rocky Mountains were in view.

The quarterback continuum:

Read and pass -> Read and buy time -> Buy time and react

Star-divide

Read And Pass

The strategy the Giants and Eli Manning in particular was employing in Cowboys Stadium on December 11th was painfully obvious. Eli was to read the defense and throw the ball to the appropriate target within the time given. I have seen top quarterbacks like Eli's brother Peyton and Tom Brady use the exact same strategy.

Those quarterbacks come to the line of scrimmage looking for pre-snap clues to assist them in deciphering the defensive alignment. Once Eli, Peyton, or Tom recognizes the pattern the opponent is employing, they throw the ball to the appropriate spot that is expected to be the relative weakness of the defense.

If the defense is able to produce pressure on the quarterback, Brady and the Manning's throw the ball to the appropriate open man, or safely throw the ball away. The result is generally either a positive play (a completion), or a play that results in no gain (an incompletion).

It is difficult to quantify the relative effectiveness of the quarterbacks because of a lack of information: ergo no statistics to support the hypothesis. For instance, Peyton Manning rarely moves from his pocket when passing. His accuracy is legendary. Despite this, Peyton still throws interceptions and gets sacked.

Why?

Here are four possible reasons:

1. The defense fooled him into throwing a pass into an unexpected coverage.

2. The defense forced him to throw earlier than what the pattern the receiver is running would normally warrant (due to pressure).

3. The receiver and the quarterback do not recognize the same options, resulting in miscommunication.

4. The game situation dictated the pass options (e.g., down by 4 points with less than 2:00 minutes remaining in the game).

Please recognize that all of the above could simultaneously exist. Also understand that there are no statistics to quantify any of these possibilities.

During New England's heyday, the Patriots defense would occasionally fool Peyton into throwing into coverage. Last season, the Cowboys' Sean Lee intercepted Peyton twice because of a combination of pressure, miscommunication with receivers, and disguising coverage.

Last Sunday against Washington, Eli Manning threw into coverage several times that resulted into interceptions. His last interception was the result of an apparent miscommunication with the receiver.

Quarterbacks on this end of the continuum rarely get sacked because they frequently throw the ball away quickly. Sacks still occur, however, because of the reasons listed above.

Read And Buy Time

Here is where quarterbacks such as Aaron Rodgers, Tony Romo, and Drew Brees fall on the continuum. Aaron, Drew, and Tony all come to the line of scrimmage looking for a key to decipher the defensive alignment. Unlike Tom, Eli and Peyton, however, this triumvirate will move in the pocket in the face of a rush to buy time for patterns to develop.

Because of the additional time, there is a greater opportunity for receivers to work downfield. Subsequently, more possibilities for big plays exist. Conversely, more negative plays can also occur (e.g., sacks).

Again, it is impossible to quantify the number of big plays because of the infinite variables that exist between teams. Tom Brady could have more big plays because of superior talent at receiver (as when Randy Moss was in New England). Romo could have fewer downfield passes because of an extremely porous offensive line.

All of the statistics are dependant upon the performance of the quarterback, whose performance is dependant upon the receivers, offensive line, defense, and so forth. As with all quarterbacks, when everything is in place, Super Bowl Championships are possible.

Buy Time And React

Similar to the afore mentioned quarterbacks, the passers in this category also go to the line of scrimmage reading the defense's intent. Unlike the Manning's, however, the quarterbacks on this end of the continuum are comfortable buying time when they are not sure of the defense, and add the dimension of gaining yards by running with the ball.

The quarterbacks that best exemplify this are Michael Vick and Tim Tebow.

(What, you expected a post without a mention of Tebow? Why do you think I brought up the Rocky Mountains earlier...foreshadowing!).

If Vick sees what he wants in a defense, he can deliver the ball to his receiver. If Michael does not have an open receiver, or he does not recognize what he wants from the defense, he can still create a positive play either by buying time and breaking down the defense before throwing the ball downfield, or by running the ball for a positive gain himself.

Vick is really a more refined or experienced version of Tebow. These quarterbacks can be electric, create huge game-changing plays, and carry a team to victory. This style can also backfire, however, as it minimizes a diversified attack and is reliant upon one individual above others on offense.

I would argue that defenses need to be able to defend different quarterbacks along the continuum in radically different ways. What works well against Tom Brady and Peyton Manning may be destroyed by Vick.

This is why I wonder if Rob Ryan will experience success against Vick this week. Designing a scheme that gets DeMarcus Ware into the backfield against either Manning or Tom Brady will either result in a play that gains nothing or a negative play. That same strategy against the Eagles may not be enough to get Vick down, and may in turn expose a leaky secondary to downfield passes and slow linebackers to catch Vick on the run.

Vick's kryptonite comes from defenses that get more than one man into the backfield and force Michael to run and ignore the weapons he has downfield, while the defense still has 7 or 8 guys in the secondary (think the Tampa-2 Bears and Giants). The key to defeating quarterbacks on Vick's end of the continuum relies on getting more than one player to get pressure from a 4-man pressure scheme without overloading one side (and therefore leaving another side of the field unprotected).

Rob loves his exotics. The true measure of a great coach is his ability to adapt. Are you up to the challenge, "Sugar Ray" Rob?

Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.

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Valid theories

But the best tool to beat players like Vick and Tebow are LBs with smarts and speed. If we can employ Lee and Butler effectively this game we stand a chance……..Yes i said Butler…..he should be on the field and as a weak side spy for Vick and Mccoy….not Brooking or James. If not Butler then Carter….

by Rummob on Dec 21, 2011 2:03 PM CST reply actions  

No, replace Spencer with Butler

Then you have a shot.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Dec 21, 2011 5:57 PM CST up reply actions  

No you dont

See the thing is Spencer will bea excellent at games like this he iswhat we need. Cause he doesn’t over pursue he is usually a step behind the other rushers and we need that to keep vick contained.

by Sado44 on Dec 21, 2011 8:29 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Spencer gets no heat on QB's

His claim to fame being a run stopper is silly.

Butler’s the future at that position unless they draft or sign someone. Give him his chance to be a hero. We know Anthony isn’t the ansah.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Dec 21, 2011 11:14 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Don't get the Spencer dismissal

3rd on the team in tackles, 2nd on the team in sacks, tied his career high -6 for sacks with 2 games left. By ‘get no heat’ I suppose you mean other teams may not have to gameplan for him the way they do DWare, but that’s hardly the same.

Spencer suffers from a perception bias – he’s not like DWare, so where he is valuable, gets dismissed.

It’s not the answer that’s wrong, it’s the question – why isn’t #93 more like #94? I thought that answer was obvious. Butler’s shortcomings are much more apparent – he can’t shed blocks other than with speed, but if he’s engaged, he’s done. He would be eaten up at Spencer’s spot.

I don't make mistakes...just understandable bad choices

by tdships on Dec 22, 2011 8:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Elite 3-4 defenses have a second pass rush option

Let’s think back to his draft profile and why Dallas selected him.

If you’ll recall, the thing that stood out about Spencer was his lightning fast first step. I believe it was Joe Thomas who said Spencer was the best DE he ever faced.

Here’s a blurb from one of the draft sites (Football’s Future) that was representative of the consensus on him;

Spencer is a big time threat off the edge. He constantly applies pressure from the outside and is always battling to make the play. He is a solid athlete, with good quickness. He gets a great burst off the line and used it to gain an initial step, but also has the strength to create space with his hands. He shows good pop at the point of attack and the quickness to break down and move towards the quarterback. Anthony Spencer is a very good pass rusher who can provide consistent pressure off the edge.

So, comparisons with Ware aside, he was DRAFTED to provide pocket pressure opposite Ware and make opposing teams pay for doubling Ware. In that regard, and that regard alone, he’s clearly been a bust given where he was selected.

In sum, there’s only one Ware, just like there’s only one Justin Tuck. But Tuck now has JPP (who was drafted to do the same thing Spencer was drafted to do, except JPP is living up to and exceeding expectations) and Ware still has…well, nobody.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Dec 22, 2011 10:06 AM CST up reply actions  

You had me, somewhat, until the last line(hyperbole, it's a bitch)

Agree Spencer is widely considered underperforming – relative to his Draft position. My point – so what? And if that is the equivalent of ‘nobody’, then it may be the standard, not the performance that could be the issue. I thought he was drafted to replace Greg Ellis, and while he has not turned into the pressure player #98 was, he’s a better all-around player and DAL has benefited accordingly.

Similar to the Romo discussion – on the list of what’s wrong with the Cowboys, I can think of 1/2 dz other things ahead of 93. Moreso, by prioritizing his departure, they will ignore a higher priority – classic Opportunity Cost.

I have long railed against the Stars and Scrubs talent acquisition approach by DAL over the past decade. Spencer is a lunchpail Average to Average + performer. When we are done with the Scrubs, I’m all for upgrading the next level

I don't make mistakes...just understandable bad choices

by tdships on Dec 22, 2011 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

But I view 93 within a larger context, namely who they chose him over

This is where we part ways;

I thought he was drafted to replace Greg Ellis

I never thought Ellis was meant to be a 3-4 OLB. Spencer was supposed to be the prototype. He teased dallas with his production in college and it has never translated tot he professional level. It’s not a schematic problem, it’s simply a case of him being Not Good Enough.

If they were ranking these guys, who was next on the list? Lamarr Woodley, who was the next DE-turned-OLB taken? I’d say Spencer is undeperforming to his POSITION, not just where he was drafted.

It’s spilled milk, but I wanted to be clear about why I’m in favor of Butler getting the nod. He does more of what Spencer was brought here to do.

Put the 22 out there that give you the best shot at doing what we need to do to Philly to win.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Dec 22, 2011 2:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Meaning...

But I view 93 within a larger context, namely who they chose him over
Supposed. Teased. Translated.

… you’re not only living in the Past, but looking, with hindsight’s optics.

This is where we part ways, “If…

Put the 22 out there that give you the best shot at doing what we need to do to Philly to win.”
You’re welcome.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Dec 22, 2011 6:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Point not eroded

93 is a bust.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Dec 23, 2011 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

My turn

I remeber a interview with wade where he said Spencer was the best run stopping olb on the draft board and that’s exactly what he needed to make this defense the best he ever coached. Spencer plays the run first hence his low sack record. He rushes very little to the qb its run first he goes into coverage alot more than ware. He is to contain the edge stop the run and then when the qb is pushed to his side make the move to take him down. He is what we need this game. What happened last game when ware got to much push to far in the back field. Right now picture that on both sides. Butler clearly can’t contain the run or he would be out there more. So lets let butler have the nob so shady can vet over 200 yards this game good move blings. Besides that until you can understand how this 3-4 was built then don’t call guys busts. He is exactly what he was drafted for and has proven to be there cause he is good at what he does.

by Sado44 on Dec 24, 2011 12:03 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Not that my opinion is any better than somebody else's, but...

I think that the reason Spencer’s lack of production as a pass rusher is amplified is because the Cowboys place little to no value on the defensive front. Look at what Dallas has at nose tackle, and the defensive end positions:

Jay Ratliff is a Pro Bowl NT, but was a pleasant surprise as a 7th round pick.

Jason Hatcher was a third round selection that apparently was in very low demand in his free agent year.

Marcus Spears is like Jason Hatcher, except he was a first round pick.

Sean Lissemore has been another pleasant surprise as a 7th round pick.

Kenyon Coleman has been with several teams and is a journeyman defensive lineman.

Josh Brent is another 7th round selection that has played better than his draft position.

When rumors circulated at the draft in April that Jerry was thinking of trading back up into the first round, I thought it was going to select Cameron Jordan (Cal DE). Later it came out that the Cowboys were targetting Mark Ingram (Alabama RB).

In the 90’s the Cowboys skimped at linebacker. With the change to the 3-4, the Cowboys skimp on the defensive line.

If Dallas had a defensive end that could consistently push the pocket and get pressure, Spencer’s role as a run-stopper would be adequate. Unfortunately, the Cowboys do not have an edge rusher other than Ware that can consistently get pressure on the quarterback.

Because of the dearth of pressure players along the defensive front, Spencer needs to get to the quarterback. Since his production as a pressure player does not even match the player he replaced (Greg Ellis), it is easy to consider the former first round pick as underperforming.

In reality, Spencer would be an adequate 3-4 OLB for many other teams (and maybe next year he is reuntied with Wade in Houston). Unfortunately, Anthony needs to provide more pressure in his role on this edition of the Dallas Cowboys.

by ScarletO on Dec 22, 2011 11:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Excellent points and they are the

Inevitable outcome from this Stars & Scrubs that has shortchanged the OL and DL over the last several years.

Further, the Opportunity Cost of JJ’s fixation on WR’s and WP’s intellectual laziness assessing LB talent(on balance)has exacerbated the issue because we keep having to fix what should have been already.

I think the edge rusher we seek is already on the roster – #90, wish Brent had stayed healthier – he looked more ready to assume NT than Lissy at this point. Discussion for another day

I don't make mistakes...just understandable bad choices

by tdships on Dec 22, 2011 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, I would (and have) agree wholeheartedly on this
the reason Spencer’s lack of production as a pass rusher is amplified is because the Cowboys place little to no value on the defensive front.

It’s utterly infuriating.

But THIS is what Spencer was drafted for!!!

I was campaigning for Ben Grubbs at the time, but I was fine with the pick if he was what they said he was. He has not been.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Dec 22, 2011 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I disagree

He was drafted as a run stuffer with pass rushing ability. The way you see it.

by Sado44 on Dec 24, 2011 12:09 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I enjoyed the read. Rec.

"Confidence doesn't come out of nowhere. It's a result of something... hours and days and weeks and years of constant work and dedication." --Roger Staubach

by dave33 on Dec 21, 2011 2:41 PM CST reply actions  

Keep Vick and Tebow in the pocket and they suck

Rush only three, keep a spy on them and force them to make good, accurate throws….majority of the time they won’t.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 21, 2011 3:39 PM CST reply actions  

no...rush four and play zone.

teams have stymied Vick with that. I’m just not sure we have the personnel.

by beautifultyrant on Dec 21, 2011 6:21 PM CST up reply actions  

We don't

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Dec 21, 2011 6:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Vick isn't good enough from the pocket

anyone who thinks otherwise is either blind or delusional

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 22, 2011 8:07 AM CST up reply actions  

What is with the Nice Guy Act? You know damn well they are Both Blind AND delusional

Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/

I would love to show you the finer points to a muay thai clinch whipped knee to the face seanrude
by matt575 on Nov 22, 2011 3:09 AM EST

by Seanrude on Dec 23, 2011 4:53 PM CST up reply actions  

This used to be true. Two reasons it's not anymore:

1) Vick is actually a pretty accurate passer now. He’s improved on that.

2) Philly finally has a dangerous running attack. I’d love to sit back in a zone too and make Vick throw, but now they will just start running it for 8 yards a pop against that. Altho that may be better in the end.

To really defeat their Offense you need CB’s who actually make plays and turn their heads. Or a devastating pass rush.
Good Luck.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, the real question is, is it a good beer? Realist Larry, 2011

by Realist Larry on Dec 21, 2011 6:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Well

First he is not saying VIck is inaccurate as much as he doesn’t have an ability to read the defense and predict patterns.

And a zone defense is generally pretty good against the run. It is when you turn your back to the line of scrimmage playing man you have problems.

MacGruber!

by Mojoness on Dec 21, 2011 8:17 PM CST up reply actions  

BS, Vick isn't an accurate passer, don't be silly

Vick is a horrible passer, he makes all his plays on the run or to wide open receivers…his accuracy is horrible.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 22, 2011 8:10 AM CST up reply actions  

He is actually

One of the more accurate passers in the league.

he makes all his plays on the run or to wide open receivers…his accuracy is horrible.

Wow… with quotes like this it must be Eagles Cowboys week

ok, the giants suck.
by BigBlueIntervention on Oct 4th

Namdey Asomgua sucks.We should have signed Antoneo Cromote so he could have taught his brother, cousin, son or however they are related how to play in teh slotz.I also h8 his nice guy act. I herd he blows through teh hoes faster than runningbacks thru our dfense.
by Snax on Oct 5, 2011 11:02 AM PDT

Shady is the best RB in the NFL not AP
he is the real deal, that dude scares me to death more than anyone on that team besides Vick with time to throw the ball
Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!
by ChiaCrack on Nov 5, 2011 7:50 AM PDT

by EagleEyes on Dec 22, 2011 12:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Vick is a POS

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"Obviously, I felt like if I ran into my lineman there it was going to help the play" ~Tony Romo

by thebigham on Dec 22, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

You are kidding...

1 year where he had stats were above 60% in his entire career. That’s completion ratio which attributes to his accuracy only. If you complete 60 percent or above you are considered to be a very accurate Quarterback but below that is just average. His first year was below 50% and his career average is only 55%.

RexP

by Rex Pfister on Dec 23, 2011 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

In reflection

Romo’s career rate is 64.4% and has never had a season below 60% … throwing for close to 70% one season. When you talk accuracy you need to look at maybe 6 or 10 top QBs:

Rank Player (age), Cmp% Years Teams
1. Chad Pennington 66.0% 2000-2010 2TM
2. Drew Brees (31) 65.9% 2001-2011 2TM
3. Kurt Warner 65.5% 1998-2009 3TM
4. Aaron Rodgers (27) 65.3% 2005-2011 gnb
5. Peyton Manning (34) 64.9% 1998-2011 clt
6. Tony Romo (30) 64.4% 2004-2011 dal
7. Matt Schaub (29) 64.3% 2004-2011 2TM
Steve Young+ 64.3% 1985-1999 2TM
9. Tom Brady (33) 63.9% 2000-2011 nwe
10. Philip Rivers (29) 63.7% 2004-2011 SD

BTW MIKE VICK IS NUMBER 114

RexP

by Rex Pfister on Dec 23, 2011 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

This made me laugh

Quincy Carter had a better completion rate then Mike Vick…. seems the only thing Mike could hit repeatedly was a dog!

RexP

by Rex Pfister on Dec 23, 2011 3:27 PM CST up reply actions  

I thought Vick did a good job of throwing in the pocket against you guys in our game earlier this season…


Writer at Iggles Nest
#FireAndyReid*

by PhiladelphiaEagles on Dec 22, 2011 2:09 AM CST up reply actions  

not really, McCoy really beat us in that game

and as a result when they did pass, guys were absolutely wide open…half of the guys on this blog could have hit those receivers

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 22, 2011 8:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Thats a terribly inaccurate statement

Vick had good protection the last Cowboys game allowing him to “stay in the pocket” and well, he shredded your secondary.

ok, the giants suck.
by BigBlueIntervention on Oct 4th

Namdey Asomgua sucks.We should have signed Antoneo Cromote so he could have taught his brother, cousin, son or however they are related how to play in teh slotz.I also h8 his nice guy act. I herd he blows through teh hoes faster than runningbacks thru our dfense.
by Snax on Oct 5, 2011 11:02 AM PDT

Shady is the best RB in the NFL not AP
he is the real deal, that dude scares me to death more than anyone on that team besides Vick with time to throw the ball
Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!
by ChiaCrack on Nov 5, 2011 7:50 AM PDT

by EagleEyes on Dec 22, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

vick does a lot of things well but

using the boys secondary for comparison’s sake is terrible, hell even the Gross Man & kolb (u remember that guy) sliced our db’s like a hot knife thru butter.

name something u sit in.. chair.. try again.. big chair.. nope that's the same thing try again.. high chair.. that's still a chair.. chair.. say something other than chair.. what if i can't think of anything.. u can pass.. how do i pass.. just say it.. say what.. say pass.. chair

by DarkKnight88 on Dec 22, 2011 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Fun read, SO

Nice work.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Dec 21, 2011 5:57 PM CST reply actions  

Thanks. Always appreciated.

So 5Blings, how would you defend a QB like Vick? No wrong answer since according to him, there is no defense against him.

by ScarletO on Dec 21, 2011 6:07 PM CST up reply actions  

read comment above

rush four…play zone…make him read coverages. He’ll start to run.

by beautifultyrant on Dec 21, 2011 6:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, it's a multitude of things...and as I've said in the past, it's not how one unit plays, it's how they work together to create a winning strategy

First, you defend him by playing offense. That’s right, I said offense.

On offense, Dallas needs to score early. It’s not so much Vick but rather Reid’s history that says he might abandon the run early if he falls behind.

In addition, the offense CANNOT turn the ball over. Long, time consuming drives that pin the Eagles deep will also force Reid and Mornhinweg to look for big plays. Playing small ball is not Vick’s forte and they know it.

That is where the defense comes in.

Dallas has to make Vick play not only like a pocket QB, but one who has to make reads quickly. So, maybe less pressure on the edges and more rush lane integrity with a sprinkle of middle blitzes and line stunts to chase him to a side where they are waiting for him.

But the key is the deep ball. I think they have to tease Vick a bit and make him take shots that he believes he can connect on (because he believes he can beat any deep coverage with his arm) and be ready with deep help to, hopefully, come down with one or two balls early.

Miami was the last 3-4 team to really manhandle the Eagle offense and if it wasn’t for their anemic offense, they would have won the game handily because of how the Dolphins defense stuffed McCoy and and took away the deep ball. One thing they did do, and I’m a fan of the tactic, is that when they hit Vick, they drilled him. I think Vick is brittle. I think he can be rattled.

Truthfully, I’m less worried about defending Vick in this game as I am about blocking Parker, Cole and Co.

Don’t ask me how to do that. Without Murray in the lineup, I have no clue.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Dec 21, 2011 6:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Hmmmm.... Vick...

It is an interesting question. I think you have to look at the eagles as a whole. This year they are incredibly mistake prone. They make boneheaded plays left and right but they are still a very talented team.

If you let them get a big play or two you could be in trouble.

I think you are right about the deep ball. Make them go the length of the field in small chunks. Let them make the mistakes and be ready to capitalize. This is a game Newman better not drop that pick 6.

My opinion anyhow

MacGruber!

by Mojoness on Dec 21, 2011 8:25 PM CST up reply actions  

The Dallas offense can change the way the defense has to play

I think the defense will keep the edges clean. I wonder if they can hold down Celek and Maclin on those deep in routes.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Dec 21, 2011 11:10 PM CST up reply actions  

First thing: Rec, good post

Second that is pretty much as good a plan as I’ve seen. The only problem with trying to tease the deep ball is that the our receivers are ridiculously fast, (Maclin isn’t much slower than Desean) your corners might get burned. How would you stop the run though, because Shady is too dangerous to not let run the ball and he only needs to break one to really do damage.

by nyeaglesfan624 on Dec 21, 2011 10:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Dallas has had, outside of the Eagles game, good success against the run

The Ryans all know how to stop the run without overcommitting.

I don’t worry about Jenkins because he’s able to run with Jackson. Maclin against Scandrick or Newman gives me nightmares.

The most difficult part of the plan would be keeping Vick in the pocket. I think he could gash us if we’re not careful.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Dec 21, 2011 11:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Miami's DB's are better than Dallas'

The question is whether we can put more heat on Vick than Miami did. If so, that might compensate.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Dec 21, 2011 11:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, the pressure on Vick is big. Hopefully our Oline ( which has been pretty decent lately) can give Vick space. Shady has burned both Ryans this year already running the ball, so I can’t give too much credit to:

The Ryans all know how to stop the run without overcommitting

by nyeaglesfan624 on Dec 22, 2011 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Shady is the best back in the league!

"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger. -Glen Cook The Black Company

by Udalango on Dec 22, 2011 7:40 PM CST up reply actions  

During Murrays starting stretch no one gained more yards

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"Obviously, I felt like if I ran into my lineman there it was going to help the play" ~Tony Romo

by thebigham on Dec 23, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Rookie

Refuse to say he is better after one year. He could come back from the injury bad too. Shady has been consistently great for two seasons now.

Plus I know none of you here would refuse to take McCoy

"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger. -Glen Cook The Black Company

by Udalango on Dec 23, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions  

After two seasons???

Well now that’s the career of an accomplished back. E.Smith, W. Payton, and B. Sanders would be proud.

RexP

by Rex Pfister on Dec 23, 2011 5:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Well good thing I never compared him to any of them

isnt it

"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for even should we fail, should we fall, we will know that we have lived.--"Anomander Rake, Son of Darkness
Evil is relative…You can’t hang a sign on it. You can’t touch it or taste it or cut it with a sword. Evil depends on where you are standing, pointing your indicting finger. -Glen Cook The Black Company

by Udalango on Dec 24, 2011 6:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Here is where quarterbacks such as Aaron Rodgers, Tony Romo, and Drew Brees fall on the continuum. Aaron, Drew, and Tony all come to the line of scrimmage looking for a key to decipher the defensive alignment. Unlike Tom, Eli and Peyton, however, this triumvirate will move in the pocket in the face of a rush to buy time for patterns to develop.

oh good god are you serious?

Payton and Tom do not do this?

Really?

by firejasongarrett on Dec 21, 2011 10:02 PM CST reply actions  

actually

NO they won’t…not to the extent that Romo or Rodgers will

at most Peyton or Brady will “slide” away from the pressure….

Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT

Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST

by I am Ironman!!! on Dec 21, 2011 10:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Disagree IaI

Brady and Manning, like Roethlisberger are just as good at extending the play by sliding as the others. I think you’re talking about the ability to throw a ball in full stride, which only a few can do, Romo being one of those few.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

by 5Blings on Dec 21, 2011 11:16 PM CST up reply actions  

that is what I was Talking about Blings

in Romo, Rodgers and Rothlisbergers case as opposed to Brady or MAnning

the first three will actually run out of the pocket to extend the play…..whereas MAnning or Brady rarely go out of the pocket….

Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT

Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST

by I am Ironman!!! on Dec 22, 2011 12:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Brady and Manning cannot make plays when the pocket breaks down

sure, they can move around within the pocket, but when it collapses, they’re finished, unlike qbs like Romo and Roethlisberger who can scramble and run around to make a play.

No way Brady or Manning are capable of doing that…simply not athletic enough.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 22, 2011 8:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh yeah great post ScarletO. Enjoyed the read, thanks.

I started out with nothing and still have most of it left

by Benthere on Dec 22, 2011 9:51 PM CST reply actions  

WHEN all said and Done

Vick’s OVERALL Athleticism makes him a much BETTER Quarterback than Romo……………

./..And most of all quarterbacks in the NFL

by James Simmons on Dec 25, 2011 10:21 AM CST reply actions  

OMG lost, dazed and confused ...

First a passer rating of 80.6 career ranked 52nd in the NFL all-time. Passer efficiency rated 114th all-time… so what makes you think he’s better then most QBs in the NFL… delusions of grandeur.

RexP

by Rex Pfister on Dec 26, 2011 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

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