Tracking The Five Sacks Of Cowboys Tony Romo: Who's At Fault?
by KD Drummond on Dec 6, 2011 3:00 PM CST
in Dallas Cowboys General
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You've heard of the five-second rule, right? If it drops on the floor, you have five seconds to retrieve the food before "the dirt sets in"? It's a time-honored edict of childhood. Well, football might have it's own version, the three-second rule. If the quarterback hits the turf in under three seconds, the dirty culprit is his offensive line.
Tony Romo was under siege on several occasions Sunday. He was sacked five times, and pressured relentlessly by the Cardinals pass rush throughout the game. PFF has yet to release their game grades, but I'm sure the Quarterback Disruption numbers will be in the 20+ range. [UPDATE] Grades are out. 5 sacks, 2 hits, 15 QB pressures, 22 total Disruptions.[/UPDATE] The five takedowns mark the most times Romo has eaten dirt this season, as well as the high mark for the Arizona defense. As Rabble pointed out earlier in the week, the sacks were drive killers for Dallas. We'll look at the details of them after the jump.
There's no question that the penetration caused many of the problems the Cowboys faced in the desert. The question is, were the linemen the only ones at fault?
Many times, the blame for a quarterback being knocked off his feet, is placed at the feet of the men hired to protect him. That's not always the case. There's a fairly (overly?) simplistic way of measuring fault for sacks. If the pressure gets to the quarterback in under three seconds, it's reasonably safe to say that the fault is that of the protection. Three seconds generally seems to be long enough for a quarterback to scan the field and identify if the deep routes are available.
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The Cowboys run a modified version of Air Coryell, where the progression for the quarterback looks at the deep routes first, and then comes ‘down' to the shorter, safer routes if the long ones aren't available. This might slightly alter whether three seconds is a good threshold to measure this sort of system, however I'd wager it's safe to say Romo should know at this point whether or not the receiver's route will open a window to fit the ball into.
You'd be able to see if the wide-out has the requisite step (and already have a sense of whether the corner has the ability to make up the ground) and the safety has to have committed by this point, letting the QB know single or double coverage.
Now, where the pressure comes from also plays a role in the timing factor, as well as where the checkdown routes are designed. If the heat comes directly at the QB, it takes away much more of the read options then if it's coming from the front or the blind side. Unfortunately for the Cowboys, this is where plenty of pressure has been coming from this season.
Tony Romo has been dropped 25 times in 12 games this season, 12th most in the league for 2011. Of course, the offensive line takes a lot of the blame for this total. It's no secret that what we've come to describe as "Romo Magic" has played a major part in keeping this number under 40.
The fourth quarter touchdown drive engineered by Romo against Miami on Thanksgiving Day was the perfect illustration of this, as he escaped certain doom several times to turn doom into glory like he drank a secret elixir on the sidelines.
Here's a look at the details of the five sacks from Sunday, and which side of the line the "blame" can be placed based on the three second rule.
Sack #1: After a scintillating Felix Jones kick return to the Arizona 35, a sack on first down put Dallas in 2nd and 17. A run and a short pass later, Mat McBriar was on the field (we can save the convo about going for it even on fourth and 10 from this close for another time).
Even with Paris Lenon showing blitz pre-snap, Kyle Kosier decides to kick out and block DE Darnell Dockett, allowing the free rush. Arizona was bringing the house, but the domino effect is readily apparent. The safety is coming crashing in to follow the LBs. The pressure is on Romo in less than one second and the play has no hope.
Verdict: Under 3 seconds. Blame To The Protection
Sack #2: On a 3rd down from within Cardinals territory, Dallas lost 11 yards and was pushed back to their side of midfield, leading to another punt. This play was after a damaging 4 yard tackle for loss on a run play to set up a 3rd and long.
In the pics below, the pocket is pristine clean after two seconds. The pressure starts to come as the clock strikes three, but the sack doesn't happen until 4.5 seconds have elapsed. (trust me, the clock was about to change to 11:09 at the snap). Romo doesn't budge when Dockett comes free, remaining in the pocket trying to complete something downfield. With no underneath routes, his only option would be sliding out the pocket and throwing the ball away, which would have saved 11 yards of field position, but would have still been a punting situation. If you credit Romo for knowing the game situation here, maybe taking the sack was the safe thing to do, but you'd have to ignore that he was winding up as he was taken down.
Verdict: Over Three Seconds. Blame To Romo
Sack #3: Romo was sacked on 2nd and 10 from the Dallas 45 to end the first half.
The Cowboys got the ball back at their 20 with just under two minutes remaining. They attempted a deep pass to Ogletree on their first play, then appeared to play it safe with two runs and short pass to the running back (first read). That brought the clock down to 36 seconds. They tried another pass to Dez Bryant that would have needed a sprint to the line and downing the ball in order to get another play off.
As you see in the 2nd pic below, RG Kyle Kosier has obviously lost his battle as he's on the ground within two seconds. It appears that Romo can dump the ball off to Felix Jones, who looks like he is peeking back at Tony, with his back to the line play. Jones is headed upfield in screenshot three as Romo gets swarmed... at exactly the three second mark. A dump off to Felix and a run out of bounds would have meant at least 17 seconds left on the clock.
Verdict: ~ three seconds. Shared Blame.
Sack #4: Again on first down, on a drive where Dallas had moved from their own 16 down to Arizona's 17. The momentum was lost, Dallas wouldn't regain the red zone and settled for a short field goal.
I'm not sure what the protection plan was here. The Cowboys sent both tight ends (left) out in routes, even though they were covered up by linebackers that would eventually blitz. Doug Free kicks out to take on the inside guy. The Cardinals showed blitz up the middle pre-snap, and came with 7 on hike. The Cowboys sent four receivers on routes, blocking with 6. Four of those six blockers (including DeMarco Murray) were beaten by blitzers. The pressure got to Romo in less than two seconds. The Cowboys would spend their first time out after the play, when Romo wasn't able to line up the players in a way to relieve his protection concerns. Think they could have used this later in the game?
Verdict: Blame To The Protection Mostly, And Romo For Not Checking Out Of Play
Sack #5: Early in the fourth quarter, again on third down and exactly at midfield, another decent opportunity for points went down the drain. The Cardinals are only rushing three. Romo has several opportunities to process the pressure, and for the first time in a while, seems skiddish in the pocket. He breaks out in happy feet, jumping around in the pocket before eventually being taken down.
This is the textbook definition of a coverage sack... except for the fact that it appears Tony looks right at Felix Jones who had snuck out to the left sideline past the first down marker. 4.5 seconds before the pressure was on him. You can't tell in the pics, but the reason he may not have thrown it is because he tucked the ball while shuffling his feet and wasn't in a position to pass.
Look at the second, third and fourth screen caps, with a clean pocket, I'd assume a QB should be able to step into the throw and fire a pass into the zone to Dez Bryant as well.
Verdict: Blame To Romo
Of the five sacks, Romo was directly to blame for two of them, and shared in the blame in another. Sack #3 should have been "kill, kill kill!". Now, this doesn't take into account the offensive line failures when Romo escapes the pressure that other quarterbacks can't, and make either neutral or positive plays. An article outlining that would reach 3,000 words instead of 1,500. It does however shed some light that not all sacks are the fault of the O-line, even on the worst day sack-wise of the 2011 season.
We don't have to look at another 3-4 defense this season; without a doubt the Achilles heel of the Garrett offense. A much different animal is on the way to Cowboys Stadium in the form of the Giants and their rotating front four.
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Bring on the Giants!
The more I think about the more this is a “good” loss. No reason to fight the averages of a 5, 8, or even possibly a 13 game winning streak. Puts the players focus on notice. Gut check time. Shows their flaws, so now they know what needs to be fixed etc.
Any reason you want to justify this loss I am game. Go Cowboys!
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN
Sorry, in the NFL there's no such thing
Unless you’re a terrible team who played well against a great one. In a 16 game season, they’re all important. Some you don’t kick yourself as much as others, but this should have been a win.
Greetings from the Humungus, the Ruler of the Wasteland, the Ayatollah of Rock and Roll-A. I laugh at your puny plans.
by Lord Humungus on Dec 6, 2011 6:12 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Idk I think the NYG will all agree that losing to the pats week 17 was a good lost in 07
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN
I guess we'd all like to see Romo make a read and get rid of the ball quickly.
Is this the fault of our offensive philosophy in general, poor line blocking, poor route running, or Tony’s desire to squeeze every second in hopes of getting the big play? I’m not sure. Rodgers seems to have transitioned into a QB that gets rid of the ball quickly. Remember a few years ago he was sacked consistently. Now his OL has improved but he seems to be better at getting quick reads and delivering the ball.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
Rodgers is exactly what I was thinking
he took a lot of crap when the Pack were less sucessful, now it’s “keeping plays alive”. It all depends on the outcome, so it’s hardly an objective metric.
Certainly there were a couple of times Romo needed to throw the ball away (and he did throw it away several other times) but at a time where he’s really the only offensive play-maker, it’s a hard choice to make because it sacrifices possible plays for fewer yards lost on a sack.
The other thing I’ll say is that whether it’s the patterns or the receivers, this team does not see to uncover quickly enough for 3-step and throw drops. I thought they would begin working those in after seeing so many bubble screens and RB dump-offs, but it doesn’t seem to be a major feature….
Don't believe everything you think.
Was comparing Rodgers sacks in past to sacks now. Two years ago he was sacked 50 times, this year 29 so far.
It’s a stretch to think he’ll reach the 50 mark this year. I’m throwing up questions about why Tony per se gets sacked and not comparing him to Rodgers as far as total sacks are concerned. I’m not sure why Tony gets sacked, thats why I threw up different possibilities. My point with Rodgers is he’s sacked less now than in the past and that’s most likely due to a combo of better OL play and quicker reads.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
If you'll notice.......
Rodgers is most successful when he does a 3 step drop. When they get that uptempo 3 step drop clicking, they are very hard to beat. I don’t know why we don’t do that more especially since Romo supposedly has a very quick release.
actually, if you get in rhytm on 3 step drops, you're very hard to beat.
also, it’s a good way to defeat the Cowboys, see last year’s game vs the Bears.
Exactly 3 steps, quick read, balls gone.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
It helps Rodgers
when he has Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Cobb, Finley. We dont have that kind of talent. I dont think anyways. We get alot closer when we have Miles out there.
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
People seem to forget this
Until Dez grows into his potential, Miles is the only “real deal” WR.
Don't believe everything you think.
One big problem with that.
We run a Coryell system, which is built from the deep routes down. A three step drop doesn’t give you much for deep options. We ran a lot of 3-step drops last year, with Kitna, to mask the horrible line play. This year, we’re going back to our identity more, as our line is improved (and still improving), which involves 5- and 7-step drops.
My most recent fanpost:
The Weekly Chessmatch: Cowboys @ Eagles
Gotta love that good ol' no-innovation status quo kinda thinkin', don't ya?
Shame that line’s not built to the classic Coryell behemoth but more a McKittrick crew. Then again, there’s the question as to whether ol’ Tony’s effectively capable of short crossing pattern tosses. Though that’s but one, not the full 3-step gamut.
Balance. Imagine the possibilities. Given achieving it, that is. There’s the challenge.
Cry 'Havoc!'
Love your signature, by the way.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
here’s one hypothesis:
Romo is taking sacks in an effort to avoid interceptions.
I don’t have much evidence to support this hypothesis. Just the following observations
-For his career Romo has been ok not taking sacks
-4 (NYJ),1 (SF),1 (WAS),1(DET),2(NEP),2 (STL),4 (PHI),0 (SEA),0 (BUF),4 (WAS),1 (MIA),5 (ARI)
there seemed to be an uptick after the DET game
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Dec 6, 2011 9:46 PM CST up reply actions
wasn't this brought up last year too?
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN
I have often wondered if the Cowboys should not work some WCO plays in.
I see all these other teams making quick throws on the slant routes and getting 5 to 10 yards. It not only serves to move the ball down the field, but can also force the pass rush to back off a bit, since the quick throws are most effective when extra rushers are coming in, leaving more room for the receivers to work.
I know this may not fit the Air Coryell scheme, but with players like Witten, Dez, DeMarco, Felix, Robinson and even Holley, it just seems that the Cowboys could exploit some of these plays. Plus the team they roll them out against is likely to get caught flat footed since Dallas doesn’t use these. I just wonder why they don’t at least try some of these quick passes, instead of having Tony have to read deep first all the time.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
Wheres all the bubble screens, middle screens, TE pop pass
Heck even the delay draw has disappeared and don’t get me started on the good ole RB screen. These were staples in the JG offense not too long ago.
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN
If RHG is smart...
He will lean heavily on the RB screen this week. The Ginas now have plenty of film on how to get to Romo. They will be foaming at the mouth and you can bet there will be an inordinate amount of blitzing on their part. The screen should be there all day, or at least for the first half, until they make their halftime adjustments. Then the deep ball will open up.
Wins are the best medicine...the ultimate cure-all.
dont you guys think the giants know this too?
they will be ready for the screen
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
Nope, they are idiots.
Plus, one way or the other, they will have to pick their poison. Their LB play is not so hot this year. They can be exploited.
Wins are the best medicine...the ultimate cure-all.
They are idiots aren't they? LOL
But i do agree that even if they are waiting on the screen, you should call a couple just to keep them honest.
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
:)
They will either blitz and get beat by the screen, or they will play base defense and give Romo time to pick them apart. They have a good front 4, but the rest of their defense is suspect. They can’t have it both ways….hopefully RHG and Romo will have the situational awareness and wherewithall to adjust on the fly.
Wins are the best medicine...the ultimate cure-all.
I think that was the same attitude going into the Eagles game
"Talent is God-given; be humble. Fame is man-given; be grateful. Conceit is self-given; be careful." John Wooden
we don't blitz that much
Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!
CP3 - coming soon to a Garden near you!
Might be nice to work some "west coast" style when "air Coryell" isn't working.
Kolb killed us with it. Would it be too much O to absorb. It certainly could be an answer to some of our deficiencies.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
What?
Idiot, the West Coast …Is “air Coryell”. Wake up and smell the coffee.
Seriously? you really had to call someone an idiot to try and get your point across? pathetic
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
Seriously.
I surely was’nt going to call him a Football fan. I bet the guy don’t even know who Coryell was, or who he coached, or who his famous Q.B was.
here's a fact
air coryell is the furthest thing from the west coast offense that you can get. West Coast does a lot of dink and dunk. Air Coryell is all about stretching the field vertically.
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
Here's a fact
No it’s not. Original WCO was evidenced in Gillman’s 60’s Chargers, from which Coryell gathered his ideas watching practices and was predicated on the concept of maximizing field territory for a D to cover, regardless of it being vertically or horizontally. That a field’s dimensions and down positioning often permit a greater vertical component is a by-product. Offshoot Coryell focused predominantly on the vertical, offshoot Walsh focused on the horizontal, so to speak.
Not trying to get into it with you, Paul, you or anyone. And I understand the commonly accepted terminology most often used in this regard, identifying Air Coryell as one, WCO as the other (Walsh’s variant), but at their root both are founded on what was known, till a misnomering took place (one that irked Walsh), as the West Coast Offense, Gillman’s offensive philosophy, the offense that opened up football’s passing game, first in the AFL and then throughout the NFL.
Cry 'Havoc!'
Wow, I can understand this haha
Maybe you should give us all a history lesson, get out the projector and turn off the lights. Don’t worry Ill get the screen for you because I sit in the front of the class.
Um Tans its stuck, I don’t want to brea.. nvm I got it.
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN
Sorry, I was late
Would you move your . . . . big, ham, its tough to see the screen with you in front.
oh well, can I just copy your notes when this is over?
Here's an even BIGGER fact
I might, or might not be wrong. Hmmmmmmmm……………take in knowledge everyday.
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
Even BIGGER
I am and am not wrong everyday. Now if I could just learn to be less unbalanced. Oh well, live and learn… – every day.
Cry 'Havoc!'
I'm going to unhide this, even though it's a personal attack
if in the sense that you mean the WCO is misnomered, and the one’s who coined the phrase were speaking about the Gilliam-Coryell-Zampese tree, then I guess your correct.
But the WCO, as we all know it to be called- is all about reading from sideline to sideline, not a vertical progression. It uses the backs and tight ends extensively as quick read options, as opposed to a base philosophy of speedy receivers stretching the field, and if they aren’t available, looking to the 2nd level, then to the dump off.
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d'oh
I can’t believe I did that- my anger at his disrespect of a fellow poster clouded me. thanks for the catch.
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Go home Nazi. Air Coryell is a vertical game. You are the consummate "A"
hole. I’ve been watcthing football for 50 years and I do know who Dan Fouts is. Jerk!
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
In case anyone didn't catch it...
Don Coryell’s offense was the original West Coast Offense. However, when Bill Walsh’s offense gained popularity, Sports Illustrated ran an article about the Walsh Offense, referring to it as the West Coast Offense. From then on, the West Coast Offense has referred to a Bill Walsh spread offense, while Air Coryell refers to a Don Coryell vertical offense.
My most recent fanpost:
The Weekly Chessmatch: Cowboys @ Eagles
Wrong.
See above. Your history’s a tad mistaken, no offense (no Offense, well, ummm, yeah, actually, 2, even 3, and damn effective in this game called football, eh).
How did the term get its name? From Bernie Kosar, when he was a backup quarterback with Dallas in ‘93. I was doing a piece on the Cowboys. I asked him what the offense was like.
“Oh, you know, the West Coast Offense,” he said. “Turner and Zampese and Don Coryell and Sid Gillman. That thing.” (Bernie obviously had a good knowledge of NFL history).
I used the quote. It was picked up by a West Coast wire reporter, except that he got it screwed up and he attached it to the San Francisco attack that Bill Walsh had used in San Francisco’s Super Bowl run of the ‘80s. What the hell — San Diego, L.A., San Francisco — it’s all West Coast, isn’t it? And that’s where it stuck.
At first Walsh was quite upset by the misnomer. “Call it the Walsh Offense, or the Cincinnati Offense,” he said, “but not the West Coast Offense. That’s something completely different.”
You, for one, I figure would seriously enjoy going over Gillman’s strategy/tactics and the whole influence on the game’s.
Cry 'Havoc!'
nooo, that's not true
Garrett just started dialling that shotgun delay lately, about since DeMarco got on his hot streak.
against the Phins two weeks ago, we had this shotgun set at the end of the game, when i was just keep saying ’don’t run that effin delay, them Phins know it’s going to be that delay, and gonna keep us on minus yardage’, but to my great surprise someone at the Miami sideline thought Garret is just not going to call something THAT obvious. well, he did, and the rest is history.
maybe its not a strength of Romo's?
I’m not sure either.
my memory isn’t as reliable as it used to be but I think that on a lot of quick slants that i’ve seen Romo throw it tends to be off target…slightly behind the receiver. Any one else recall that?
If I recall correctly, Romo has thrown
two, maybe three INT’s on short, crossing routes this year. On two of them, he was off-target. On one of them, the CB beat the receiver to the spot. Interesting idea? After further analysis, JG eliminated the risk by eliminating the route/throw.
"[Sean] Lee has more value now...than our entire 2010 draft"--- An Eagles' fan.
Yeah, interesting and I recall such too
Just not the numbers, but would be interested in seeing some wrapped around this. And seeing the game tape, look over just why it may be a flaw in his game or, more correctly, the Cowboys’ abilities to execute. Sure throws a monkey wrench into something that could help this offense out. Like removing any capability.
Cry 'Havoc!'
Definitely agree,
although some on here believe the slant is Romo’s best pattern. I’ve often seen him throw it behind the receiver on a slant or a hitch. I think Romo’s accuracy is pretty variable. Sometimes great, other times not so good. Too bad though, because I happen to think that the slant is an easy pattern to get separation on.
I think it's all in people's impressions....
almost all of his TDs have been crossing routes/slants. I don’t know that any particular pattern is hard for him to throw. What I do think is that weakness in the interior of the line means that his throwing lanes for passes that don’t go outside (slants for example) are often screwed up.
Don't believe everything you think.
Don't forget Kosier!
I think it’s a pretty weak set in the middle there.
Don't believe everything you think.
Agreed
For as much consistency he helped us with in year’s past, he is definitely looking like an older guy this year.
I hear he's been battling plantar fascia issues
so that plus age are probably limiting him.
Don't believe everything you think.
I forgot about that.
Just astonished at how bad this line has ended up looking this year. Before, we were old and seemed unmotivated. Now, we are younger, but under-talented/overwhelmed, etc.
In recent years, our success was always dictated by OL play. While I was happy to see us transition to a younger line, I really hope we are able to add another player or two that can bring some talent into the mix and make this a strength of our team rather than the continual liability it appears to be.
Yeah
I do think they are better than last year, but they have a way to go to be really good.
Don't believe everything you think.
They certainly do
I know it is not yet time to look forward to next year, but I do believe that we should be able to enjoy the success we all covet. . . . We have made some decent progress, but another round of Drafting, FA and Training Camp should help us get closer to where we should be.
you know- I often attribute the long con philosophy to Garrett… I might even write that article in the next week or two (calling dibs to all FPWs and FanPost bloggers haha).
I think he definitively calls (and doesn’t) call plays to spring them later in the year. I alluded to this early in the season but haven’t thought about it much until the recent disappearance of several early staples of the offense.
It’s the type of thing that ‘overthinkers’ do.
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Proof in any long con our own Gondorff/Hooker combo might be playing may be unavailable till late night Feb 5, 2012. That’d sting, eh.
Cry 'Havoc!'
Cue Scott Joplin music
I'm not saying Tony Romo is the reincarnation of the mythical Romulus. I'm just saying
Simply put...
Garrett does not trust the protection. It hinders his play calling.
Hey Washington... D.C. stands for Dallas Cowboys
DeMarcus is EveryWare Man
Twitter: @silva918
He never has but this offense hasn't had a streak this bad ever
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN
It seems to happen to Romo for a stretch where he'll turn his nose up on the short gains.
That makes him predictable, because the defense only needs to defend deep.
Unless they arren't options
that assumes we know what Garrett schemed. For years people have claimed he wants Romo to look for the deep (see write-up above). If that’s the case, it’s not turning a nose up, it’s meeting the OC’s design.
Don't believe everything you think.
I lean towards the game plan.
Too often the team gets into the later stages of the game and needs the deep ball. Maybe if the team goes with some quick hitters early then it can get a decent lead and not have to rely on the long ball late.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
Short of a 14 point deficit
I think you can always stick to short and medium passes and matriculate down the field. It doesn’t really take much time to execute 10 8-10 yd passes with a screen mixed in. I’ve seen teams like the Pats, Colts (Manning-led) and GB do it. I’m starting to think the Coryell offense doesn’t particularly suit our cast of characters. Whether it be the line caving in the middle or the receivers route-running, I’d like to see Romo play more small ball.
This is a great post!
I really like the use of the screenshots. Expert analysis. I agree with all of your “who’s to blame for the sack”, and it’s interesting that it’s not always the O-line’s fault. Just goes to show that the entire group (including Romo and the receivers) need to improve. Excellent work!
Wins are the best medicine...the ultimate cure-all.
I don't agree with your opinion on sack #3 (shared blame)
especially since you’ve already established in your article that the read is long to short.
it doesn’t look like he had time to get to the felix read.
I think sack 3 is the line.
great write up though.
LOL
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
I got a feeling
JimmyK is a closet Cowboys fan since he spends so much time here.
by nospinzonefactor on Dec 6, 2011 4:57 PM CST up reply actions
That is not a random feeling.
It have been proven through iron clad logic and irrefutable evidence many times here.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
sup Jimbo )
woman !, don't try to understand em, don't try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
(redskins)= A Tale of 2 owners, bought by Snyder, OWNED by the COWBOYS
Id say RIP Al Davis, but i know your up there drunker than a monkey and clocking angels in the 40 yd dash.
there's someone down below begging for you to edit
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Why do we have to blame anyone?
The post proved that both Romo and the oline are to blame. Take it a step further and blame the wr’s too. They may not have been where they were supposed to be. Blame goes to everyone. The entire offensive unit.
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
So true,
Now how to correct it. The biggest disappointment so far this year for me has been the lack of a consistently prolific offense. I thought JG would give us that. Now I may have been too optimistic about the yuglies, but less than 20 points in any game befuddles me. I expected them to average closer to 30.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
The Tanstaafl Rule states
you must post a Cowboys helmet when you post that. Just saying.
Don't believe everything you think.
I agree Tarheel...
There has to be blame though. It’s the way to figure out mistakes and try to get better. If the mistakes are ignored, then the coaches and players wouldn’t recognize the errors, point them out to try to have more consistently better play. Right? All of us arm chair coaches are just doing what the coaches are or should be doing.
BIG blame goes to Phil Costa. No question, he gets owned, period.
by torchindefenses on Dec 6, 2011 4:02 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Exactly. No business being on an NFL field.
Most teams (other than the Steelers of recent years) are about as good as their offensive line.
You just can’t get away with a center that’s that bad.
Give some blame to Garrett for abonding the run
Which by the way had us at 5-1. Garrett has now lost us three games and I know Jerry’s watching closely. If Garrett doesn’t learn quickly from his own mistakes and make the playoffs, he may be gone IMO. We have the playoff seed almost given to us, Dallas just needs to play the games. These teams are horrible that we are facing, minus the Giants.
I like JG and I think he has the team on the right track philosophically but his game management skills need some work.
PFF is toying with my emotions
waiting on the game grades for the QBD numbers… they finished grading Giants/Pack which ended after our game did… grrrrr
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In sack number 4 why do the receivers not adjust and run a quick slant? There is NOBODY in the middle of the field. Seems like an easy 12yards. You see just about every team in the league run quick slants be we never do? What’s that about?
"On a journey to anywhere you can draw your own map."
we were running quick slants more......
but i think the ones that were intercepted in the lions game as well as eagles i think may have prompted JG to stray from them a few games.
woman !, don't try to understand em, don't try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
(redskins)= A Tale of 2 owners, bought by Snyder, OWNED by the COWBOYS
Id say RIP Al Davis, but i know your up there drunker than a monkey and clocking angels in the 40 yd dash.
Backyard Football
The blame is the offensive scheme. Kinda like in the playground where everyone runs for a pass, but nobody wants to block. The whole NFL is going into the W.Coast offense to keep its fan base. Thus more teams use the 3-4 defense. Why is Tim Teebow having great success. Because he can single handed mess up the whole defense scheme. Bottomline, do things different. How about the Wishbone? How about 1 widereciever, like before? How about a two runningback offense (was very successful with E.Smith and the Moose)? Sure its boring, but it wins games.
If we had a healthy FB and Miles Austin
I would be happy reverting back to more I-Formation looks . . . . Oh yeah, but we would still need a competent OL
Why did Garrett stop running the ball?
Garrett’s philosophy is you take what the defense is showing. Lots of one on one play on the WR’s with 8 in the box. You don’t give up entirely on the run though. Then they bring the heat on every play. Our WR’s couldn’t get open. Where the heck were the plays to Felix or Murray in the flat? Draw play?
This is Football
It’s just not Garrett and the Cowboys that stopped running the ball, its the whole NFL. Action is what makes football teams exciting and bring money to the team and league. Recievers and Tightends are now more valuable to the NFL Teams than a good runningback. It is what football fans want. The only purpose of a running back now is to give the O.L and Reciever’s time to rest, or maybe to help block in passing situations. I keep telling football fans that the runningback is becoming obsolete. The only reason they are out there is because the team needs 11 guys. Has anyone notice the empty backfield offense. It’s the wave of the future.
That's why I draft WRs before most RBs in Fantasy
There are so many QBs with 4k+ yards passing and WRs with 1k+ receiving. Couple that with the multiple back attacks used by most teams and it makes RBs even less valuable.
(Sorry to bring up fantasy football in a non-fantasy post)
/sits facing corner
the Ravens and bears, 49ers,
would disagree with ya there ….. )
woman !, don't try to understand em, don't try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
(redskins)= A Tale of 2 owners, bought by Snyder, OWNED by the COWBOYS
Id say RIP Al Davis, but i know your up there drunker than a monkey and clocking angels in the 40 yd dash.
Some screen passes
would’ve slowed down the pass rush and Garrett is notorious for abandoning the run too early. The offensive line struggles have been all year and not sure Hudson Houck is the right answer——his best days are behind him.
Would they?
That they use a running back more than other teams, is not the debate. They still throw the ball more than they run it. Listen, Flacco is becoming the quaterback the Ravens wanted, Chicago has always been “down your throat” football, and as for the 49ers they are a young team of mostly unknows. (Yet). Long gone are the famous running backs. Does anyone know who the rushing leader is this season? How many yards….geez?
give me a very good solid run game w/ a very good def ......
and ill show you a SB contender….. but then the QB and WR have to make some key plays as well.
woman !, don't try to understand em, don't try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
(redskins)= A Tale of 2 owners, bought by Snyder, OWNED by the COWBOYS
Id say RIP Al Davis, but i know your up there drunker than a monkey and clocking angels in the 40 yd dash.
They had that.
All teams once upon a time had a runningback, of course some better than other’s. Detroit had a very, very good one, but could never put winning seasons. The Bills also had a good one (later killed his ex-wife) but never wound up in the playoffs. The winniest teams had a passing attack. Chargers,49ers,Cowboys,Rams (w/Warner),Packer’s, etc,etc. The NFL took notice and decided to make football an action game. Why are more and more teams competative? Because of the passing game. It’s the future. Chetohimler has spoken.
a little knowledge is a dangerous thing
as you have proven.
Those teams you mentioned never had a very good D. Even teams in recent years that have won more with offense had a D that performed when needed.
Take him.
I’ll give you Murry, I hear his the best the Cowboys have.
Finally- PFF grades are up
Cardinals had 22 QB Disruptions on the game— 5 sacks, 2 QB hits and 15 other QB pressures.
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didn't think it would be that few.
seemed like there was somebody in our backfield on every single play and then some more…
thats just qb preasures
that doesn’t even count the times they were in our backfield when we ran the ball. But 22 is a pretty big number for passing plays only. How many pass attempts did Romo have?
We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''
What else makes a strong leader?
"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.
"That's' what we're going to do.''
gah (
woman !, don't try to understand em, don't try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
(redskins)= A Tale of 2 owners, bought by Snyder, OWNED by the COWBOYS
Id say RIP Al Davis, but i know your up there drunker than a monkey and clocking angels in the 40 yd dash.
I'm not so sure it's Hudson H's fault really.
We just don’t have a strong enough Center to get the job done. The defenses we played are geared for stopping the run and Garrett always tries to “expliot the defense”, where if the defense is trying to stop the pass, run. If the defense is run blitzing, then pass. Problem is that this Oline can’t handle the blitzes too well and Garrett totally gives up on the run altogether.
I think it’s on Garretts head that he let go of Andre. I like the push for younger, cheaper guy but come on. Costa just isn’t cutting it. We won’t go far in the playoffs with him. I would be shocked.
For all you guys that don’t like REALITY, you know what you can do. People can’t write what they observe on this blog without getting blasted by the KOOL-AID bunch unless its a positive or good thing about this teams personell or coaches. There is a dark side people, ever seen Star Wars? Okay, I degress. While it’s exciting that we are in the hunt for the playoffs and above .500 you have to get full of Kool-Aid sometime. This team has surprised me for sure this season but make no mistake, they are not the Green Bay Packers, New Orlean Saints or even the Patriots. Yes, we should have won that game folks against a lack luster defense but JG decided to be conservative (protecting Tony from himself I presume after those INTs).
The reason we are not in the same league as those teams? We don’t score enough on offense. Why? Austin for one, spotty line play for two. If Dallas could just be better on the line we could be right there with them.
Why are there only two options of blame? What about coverage? What about receivers not running proper routes?
Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a s#!t about the rules?!?
by TennKen on Dec 6, 2011 6:08 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Because they are the easiest to decipher
From our vantage point, it is hard to ascertain what routes the WRs should be running.
Your analysis doesn't take into account down and distance or where the pressure is coming from
1) Phil Costa blocks the wrong guy
2) You blame Romo but the down and distance is 3rd and 13. It takes 3 seconds for the receivers to get down to the sticks and make their breaks. Romo can’t throw it at guys’ backs. Phil Costa is spun around looking at Romo as his man streaks towards him. Phil Costa is to blame, not Romo.
3) Phil Costa and Kyle Kosiar are on the ground 2 seconds into the play, Romo can’t step up to deliver the ball because he was 2 Cardinals rushing straight at him
4) I think it was mostly just a great defensive play
5) I agree, Romo completely misses the open man
At the end of the day I give Costa blame for 2.5 sacks, Kyle Kosiar for 0.5 sacks, good defensive play for 1, and Romo for 1.
"When I die, I want the Philadelphia Eagles to be the pallbearers at my funeral. So they can let me down, one last time" - Anonymous Eagles fan on 2011 season
Do you get the sense that other teams make better half time adjustments than we do. Or am I misinterpreting what my senses tell me?
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
I don't think there's enough evidence to say that
The Cardinals relentlessly attacked the A gaps (attacking Costa). Sack #1 is a double-A gap blitz. I noticed the Cardinals run the exact same double-A gap blitz in the 2nd half and Dallas blocked it up each time. So someone must have gotten to Costa and slapped him up the head during half-time to make an adjustment.
I also wonder how much of the defense’s let-down in the 4th quarter is physical. Maybe it’s that Alan Ball is bad but tired Alan Ball in the 4th quarter is terrible. Maybe Newman is a good cornerback in the 1st half but 33 year old loses a step in the 4th once he starts breathing heavy (we’ve seen that prominently with 30+ year olds Leonard Davis, Andre Gurode, and Keith Brooking in the past).
"When I die, I want the Philadelphia Eagles to be the pallbearers at my funeral. So they can let me down, one last time" - Anonymous Eagles fan on 2011 season
by Blue Eyed Devil on Dec 6, 2011 6:30 PM CST up reply actions
I agree BED, I think the D tires out to an extent in the second half because the O doesn't control the ball or score enough points.
While I acknowledge your point, I brought up the adjustment question because it seems as though we tend to blow leads and have trouble overcoming deficits. I admit though that I have no objective proof of it, just a sense that it’s occuring
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
I can't disagree. I haven't figured it out myself.
Can’t tell if there’s something schematically that’s changing or if the players don’t have enough conditioning.
"When I die, I want the Philadelphia Eagles to be the pallbearers at my funeral. So they can let me down, one last time" - Anonymous Eagles fan on 2011 season
by Blue Eyed Devil on Dec 6, 2011 7:34 PM CST up reply actions
This was a great conversation
I think the age of the defense has to be taking its toll.
Don't believe everything you think.
I just think they don't have that leader out them to keep them focus
They can’t handle the pressure to win the game. Maybe its more simple as to say its conditioning.
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN
Maybe
but I’d say that mostly they look out of gas more than out of place. That’s one thing I think Rob has brought to the D – they look like they know what they’re doing, even when they don’t always execute perfectly.
Don't believe everything you think.
Certainly seems as though the cardinals D had our number.
Our O had trouble the entire second half.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
Somebody studied our weakness against the 3 -4
And added in steelers style pressure
Result 13 pts. Enough for them to squeak out a win.
Horton, their DC and a former Cowbopy, trained under Labeau in Pittsburgh.
They certainly looked like the Steelers on a number of plays.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
Steerlers, Ravens, Bengals on sked next year
if we win the division, Packers and Niners also.
Could be time to get the 3-4 problem worked out.
Always the bane of an "easy" schedule one year. The improved record bites you next year.
Having to deal with the AFC north next year, plus the Pack and Niners, means physical football. We better have a great draft.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
yo pink
thanks for the advice before, I talked to my doctor and got an appointment tomorrow
thanks a lot, really appreciate the info bro
Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!
RDD=REAL DEAL DEMARCO!!!!
by Archie Barberio on Dec 6, 2011 7:48 PM CST up reply actions
Well
the problem with the 3-4 is recognition and maintaining discipline. Kosta’s the culprit on most breakdowns. Perhaps when he is stronger and experienced he won’t block the man Kosier is engaged with and let two blitzing LBs run by him.
I only show up to mock other posters, jeer at the writing here, and make strange complaints about internet culture.
or he's just bad
Cutting Gurode for him was a bad idea. Costa is not an NFL center.
"When I die, I want the Philadelphia Eagles to be the pallbearers at my funeral. So they can let me down, one last time" - Anonymous Eagles fan on 2011 season
by Blue Eyed Devil on Dec 6, 2011 8:58 PM CST up reply actions
maybe he will be next year, but lets worry about that next year
We got the Giants! And he better block like he did in the bills game
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN
I hope it's okay to post this in here. It's an interesting take by Raf on one kind of
blitz that is blowing up the pass protection:
http://www.cowboysnation.com/2011/12/2nd-look-at-cards-tape-same-old-same.html
Seemed relevant to this topic.
lol it was a great article, I am just not surprised at all
Yesterday, Cardinals defensive coordinator Ray Horton took a page from New England’s game plan, attacking center Phil Costa with inside linebacker blitzes.
Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!
RDD=REAL DEAL DEMARCO!!!!
by Archie Barberio on Dec 6, 2011 7:50 PM CST up reply actions
Costa bad
He’s the Alan Ball of the offense. Other teams are learning to just attack him early and often.
"When I die, I want the Philadelphia Eagles to be the pallbearers at my funeral. So they can let me down, one last time" - Anonymous Eagles fan on 2011 season
by Blue Eyed Devil on Dec 6, 2011 8:13 PM CST up reply actions
So why doesn't Murrey or a TE look first to the A gap?
If the Tackles are doing their job, the back should be able to read inside to out and that means always blocking the guy that beat Costa
Murray is inexperienced, and Phillips doesn't strike me as doing terribly well as a
blocker. Someone else can weigh in on this.
LOL I like that, the Alan Ball of offense
Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!
RDD=REAL DEAL DEMARCO!!!!
by Archie Barberio on Dec 7, 2011 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
+1
I remember how this team would practice screens a lot during the short off-season we had. What ever happen to them ?
D-Ware= sack master
rated as the # 1 pass rusher in the NFL
by salas88 on Dec 6, 2011 8:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
idk, all training camp they practiced screens too
Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!
RDD=REAL DEAL DEMARCO!!!!
by Archie Barberio on Dec 6, 2011 8:12 PM CST up reply actions
Ive Seen a few screens but to TEs and Wrs but not many to Rbs ? weird :-/
D-Ware= sack master
rated as the # 1 pass rusher in the NFL
by salas88 on Dec 6, 2011 8:35 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
My Frustration
With the 3 man sack wasn’t so much that there were players open, but he didn’t try to scramble for yardage either, at any time in the game. That was one of his assets and made teams have to compensate for his scrambling abilities, but that seems to have left Tony’s thoughts. There were other times during the game where he had running room but chose to stay around and try to complete a pass.
Yeah I thought a few times Romo could of just ran for some yards
Maybe there was someone off camera that was in a zone idk.
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN
I thought so too
he doesn’t run much. What I don’t know is whether that’s his choice or his guidance from Garrett.
Don't believe everything you think.
I'm trying to word my response to this post carefully, but I have to speak plainly...this post is RIDICULOUS!
Blaming Romo for the Arizona loss? Really? I understand you’re not putting sole blame on him, but it’s really grasping at straws to spend time even writing this post. We lost because we called a timeout that negated the winning field goal.
We don’t even have a winning record this year if Romo wasn’t our QB…
I understand that fans have the right to say whatever they think, but sometimes it’s laughable…
I don't think that's what KD is saying. He's proposing that, as bad as the O line has been,
not every sack is on them. We all know that sometimes a QB just holds the ball too long or can’t throw it away for fear of a grounding call or whatever, and takes a sack; Romo has a quick release, but he’s not perfect. KD also pointed out that he is only talking about sacks. He fully acknowledged that Romo’s elusiveness has saved the O line, the play, and the team more often than not. He says this:
Now, this doesn’t take into account the offensive line failures when Romo escapes the pressure that other quarterbacks can’t, and make either neutral or positive plays. An article outlining that would reach 3,000 words instead of 1,500.
Now I, for one, would like to read those 3,000 words on the ways Romo has made positive plays. Makes for much more cheerful reading. :)
it's like people don't even read any more
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really? quote me where I blame Romo for the loss then
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What was the purpose for the lengthy post? Why point out some of Romo's culpability if some blame wasn't felt?
Again, in the list of Arizona game issues…Romo’s 3 sacks was way down the list…
SMH… thanks for reading. I’m done with this convo.
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I understood what he was trying to write...I'm just questioning his reasoning for writing this post in the first place.
In the order of failures or bad plays…Romo ranks near the bottom. It would seem to me a long essay on why our defense seems to give up last minute long scoring drives would seem more appropriate or useful…again, just my opinion…KD can write what he wants…and if Romo’s failed 3 plays is worthy of a lengthy post in his eyes…well, I guess he’s allowed…
Agreed on Romo, and the inordinate amount of criticism he gets drives me crazy, too.
But I think KD was just stimulating some discussion on the topic. I think this O line has been increasingly awful lately, and they’re also taking a lot of (justified) criticism. I suppose it’s fair to point out when (the few times) they’re not totally at fault. :)
Maybe CaliFanInTX has been watching too much BSPN
M. Wiley (one of many) was talking yesterday and saying that JG doesn’t trust Romo . . . . especially since they have only been working together for just over a year. While I realize that JG has only been the HC that long, how would these two not know each other really well . . . . If I am not mistaken, JG was the OC for a few years before he took over the HC job . . . .
I am sick of most media outlets and really tired of the ignorant comments on BSPN
Yeah, I think that's nonsense, but it's the new narrative. Garrett doesn't
trust Romo, blah, blah, blah. But he hands the game over to him when it’s on the line on a pretty consistent basis. Now the O line is another matter; he as much as said that he didn’t trust them not to make a negative play when he chose to kick.
You're correct. . . .
Too bad the talking heads aren’t smart enough to figure it out.
I am absolutely astonished that it always comes back to Romo . . . . The only thing I will truly blame Romo for, is making the previous Offensive Line Units of the Cowboys look better than they ever where, which led to us not addresses the problems at the position until it was completely unavoidable.
Okay, I kow I am reaching a bit, but I still occasionally have nightmares of Quincy Carter and other atrocious QBs that wore the Star . . . . . I won’t say that Romo is A. Rodgers, P. Manning, D. Brees or T. Brady, but I have seen what he can do with our crap OLs . . . . .I would really like to see him behind a unit that consistently gives him the time that the previously mentioned guys get.
Wow- if you took this post as me blaming Romo for the loss
you really have to turn in your Romo-defender badge.
I was doing nothing of the kind. I picked out five plays, sacks specifically (as was in the title) and sought to identify whether the fault was with the O-Line as is commonly blamed for most sacks, or somewhere else.
Goodness gracious.
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Please see my repsonse to Fernie...
I live in DFW…the stupid comments that I’ve heard over the last 2 days may have colored my response, but I stand by my comments…I defend Romo when I feel it’s fair…he deserved all the criticism he got with the Jets and Lions losses, but not for how he has played, lately…again, I just didn’t see the reasoning for the post…that’s just my opinion.
Look at it this way
Well beyond Romo and the Cowboys, it’s a huge point of discussion on how to apportion cause for sacks – WRs, coverage, QB, scheme, etc. So this really follows a league-wide topic. Think back about 5 years ago when it was discussed weekly wrt Rottenberger. That’s how I took this.
As some said, Romo may be holding the ball longer to try to keep the play alive, and as FITAT noted above, it’s also possible that Romo is eating the football in some cases to avoid throwing a ball that could be picked.
Don't believe everything you think.
nice article.
I had the feeling that Romo had held the ball for a long time on a couple of those sacks. you’re probably capturing a real skill here and something that could realistically be improved.
all the research I’ve seen points in the same direction, that the QB has a lot of responsibility for sacks.
Few certainties exist in the world of football, but this is one of them: You could assemble an offensive line with Anthony Munoz, Forrest Gregg, Joe DeLamielleure, Larry Allen, and Mike Webster, all in their primes, but if you put Rob Johnson behind them, he’d still find a way to get sacked.
Most observers think sacks are a function of the battle at the line of scrimmage. When the offensive line wins the battle, the quarterback is able to throw his pass; when the defensive line wins, he isn’t.
But what about the quarterback? Isn’t he equally responsible for getting rid of the ball before the defense reaches him? Last Monday, Football Outsiders took a look at how often a team took a sack based not on total sacks but on sack rate, the percentage of pass attempts that resulted in sacks. Well, the best way to determine whether the quarterback or line is responsible is to see if different quarterbacks playing behind the same line have similar sack rates. So I’ve looked at the 30 teams in the past three full seasons with more than one quarterback with 100 passes. And I found that sack rates vary widely even when quarterbacks are playing behind the same line. My feeling, based on these statistics, is that the quarterback is more important than the line. And the Lions’ quarterback, Joey Harrington, might be the best in history at avoiding sacks. Then again, looking at his passing numbers, maybe he’s just the quickest in history at throwing the ball away.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Dec 6, 2011 9:35 PM CST reply actions
I understood what he was trying to write...I'm just questioning his reasoning for writing this post in the first place.
In the order of failures or bad plays…Romo ranks near the bottom. It would seem to me a long essay on why our defense seems to give up last minute long scoring drives would seem more appropriate or useful…again, just my opinion…KD can write what he wants…and if Romo’s failed 3 plays is worthy of a lengthy post in his eyes…well, I guess he’s allowed…
sack rate is fairly consistent when a QB changes teams
At the other end of the spectrum, two performance measures stand out at the top—completion percentage and sack rate. One of those, of course, is the one passer performance measure that is not currently included in the NFL’s passer rating formula….
While sacks can be the fault of the offensive line or the accomplishment of the defensive player, the evidence is pretty clear that the quarterback is at least as responsible for his team’s sack rate as other passing performance measures that we readily attribute primarily to the quarterback.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Dec 6, 2011 9:39 PM CST reply actions
Here's an interesting question though
What if, rather than the sack rate changing, the Net YPA attributed to a QB goes up with a better line. Now I might be saying something self-intuitive or ridiculous but…
A qb behind a bad line gets, say, 3 seconds to throw and then has to throw it.
A qb behind a good line might give 3.5→4 seconds to throw, or conversely is given a much cleaner pocket before a coverage sack.
What if, rather than affecting sack rate, a good line gives the QB a little more time to throw and a better accuracy + YPA than before. I have absolutely no numbers to back it up, just positing
I'm not saying Tony Romo is the reincarnation of the mythical Romulus. I'm just saying
You hypothesis is consistent with the evidence
here’s what I found last year when Romo went down (I was curious about what we might expect from Kitna)
Since last week I found 2 more pieces of relevant research. One looks at the what QB statistics are consistent when QB’s change teams. This is relevant because it had been suggested that one way to compare Romo and Kitna was YPA. However, 40% of the time when a QB changed teams their YPA changed by at least 20%. Kitna for his career is 5.7 YPA versus Romo who was 7.4 YPA. A 20% increase for Kitna would result in 6.8 YPA. Coincidentally, Kitna produced 7.4 YPA against Jacksonville.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Dec 6, 2011 10:04 PM CST up reply actions
Sack and intentional ground are pretty much the same outcome
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN
I would Argue that in certain circumstances
intentional grounding is better than a sack…with both you still lose a down, but a grounding only takes 5 yards whereas a sack may lose even more…..
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Dec 7, 2011 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
Grounding is 10yds
but grounding saves the qb from a hit maybe,
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN
I disagree with the conclusion here.
Sack #2. Count the rushers (6) and count the defenders (8). That means the Cards have 5 defenders to cover three receivers, and because it’s 3rd and 13 don’t have to cover anything underneath. They can either double team two players or man up and have two safeties float around the 15 yardline. I think this is a coverage sack.
Sack #4: The Cards rush 7 and you have a 10 yard cushion on first down… shouldn’t someone have run a hot route? I think the slot receiver (looks like Robinson) should have run a slant or something and made a moderate gain. Instead he runs an 8 yard curl towards coverage before he turns around. Romo’s looking right at him in the last screenshot too.
Sack #5: Uh, hello? Look at the third screencap. There is a defender sitting right on top of Felix’s route, ready to drive on any pass. If Romo threw that ball it’s a pick six. At best Felix has to make a contested catch, break a tackle, and then hope he gets a first down before the other defenders get there. Also, count up the number of players again. As best I can tell there’s only 10 Cowboys and 9 Cards, so I bet there’s another receiver split low with a defender and an extra safety somewhere. In any case, either safety could be covering Dez on the deep route, as it looks like the hope was he would draw the defender and open the zone for Felix, but that never happened.
In all of these cases it’s quite possible the Cards just called a good defense for the play. Romo can’t throw the ball if no one’s open.
The OL and chosen routes are my focus
Too often I see routes targeting the same areas of depth on the field.
In particular Sack #4, the first receiver does not turn around and look for the ball didn’t do so until he was 7 yards down field. On this particular play, you are correct in stating that the play should have been switched at the line, but if/when we know pressure is coming, we need to let our athletes try for more YAC.
YAC is one of those things that Miles Austin does so well. If defenders play off of him, he catches it short and runs for yardage, which allows for him to be a deep threat. If you try to stop the stuff underneath, Austin has the wheels to beat you deep.
If we know the OL is incapable of consistently giving Romo a good/decent pocket to throw from, we need to be working from short to long routes. Or at least have more short to intermediate routes to choose from.
Would also like to see more screens. Both Felix and Murray work well with space. Getting both those guys involved in the Offense (especially when the Run Game is not working well) to help take some of the focus off of Witten, et al. Run a fake screen to one and throw to the other when Defenses start keying in on them.
The Packers and Saints do a great job of working in Pseudo Running plays. . . .When we can’t line up against an inferior opponent and stuff if down their throat running the ball, it is important to allow passes to work like runs to help provide some semblance of balance.
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