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Beyond Passer Rating: Comparing The NFC East Quarterbacks

Tony Rmo has the fewest interceptions of all NFC East QBs

Off the top of your head, could you say exactly how the NFL passer rating is calculated?

Probably not. I'm sure you could look it up quickly, but it doesn't matter that much anyway. Because as long as we understand what goes into the rating, the exact formula isn't that important. The passer rating aggregates yards per attempt and completion percentage as well as TD and INT percentages into one more-or-less easy to understand number.

For all its faults, the passer rating does go beyond simple volume stats like yards, number of TDs or number of interceptions. This is a good thing. Yet to this day, it remains perhaps the only advanced stat used to evaluate a passer. That is a bad thing.

So today I'm going to look at some stats out there that help paint a more complete picture of the passer performance than the passer rating or the more traditional volume stats are able to, and I'll use the four NFC East quarterbacks as an example.

Star-divide

Note that in the intro above I used the word 'passer' six times and 'quarterback' only once. This is an important distinction. The NFL passer rating was designed to evaluate the passing game only. It does not account for a quarterback's running game, his ability to read defenses, his competence as a signal caller, his decision making and many other aspects of quarterback play. And the same is true for most of the stats we'll be using below: they are focused on the passing game, not the entirety of quarterback play.

Passer Rating

Let's start with where the four NFC East QBs currently stand as measured by the traditional Passer Rating:

2011 Passer Rating, NFC East QBs
QB Romo Manning Vick Grossman
2011 Rating 97.5 96.0 79.8 69.8

This is about what you would have expected, right? At 97.5, Romo is just two points above his career average, so he's having a normal year, albeit at a very high level. Eli Manning is on track to have a career year and is playing about 15 points above his career average. Both Vick and Grossman are playing within less than one point of their career average. This is who they are.

Vick and Grossman are below Romo and Manning in terms of completion percentage and yards per attempt, but not enough to explain the big difference in their passer ratings. The key difference between the two sets of QBs is in the number of TDs and INTs thrown. Romo and Manning have very similar TD/INT numbers (Romo: 22 TD, 9 INT; Manning: 23 TD, 11 INT) while Vick (11 TD, 11 INT) and Grossman (10 TD, 15 INT) have much less favorable numbers. Plugging in Romo's 22 TDs and 9 INTs (adjusted for differing number of pass attempts) into Vick's and Grossman's numbers would significantly improve Vick's (91.3) and Grossman's (86.3) passer ratings.

Accuracy

Before we proceed, please make a mental ranking of which QB you think is the most accurate with his throws. Got it? Okay.

The traditional way of recording accuracy, the NFL's completion percentage, is actually not a very accurate way to measure a QB's passing accuracy. For example, did you know that a spiked ball officially counts as an incomplete pass? Same thing with a ball that is thrown away into the stands, although that at least makes some sort sense. But counting it as an incomplete pass gives it a negative mark even though it may have been the right decision in order to avoid a sack.

And then there are the dropped balls by wide receivers. It certainly doesn't help Michael Vick's accuracy that he has to throw balls to DeSean Drop'em Jackson.

Pro Football Focus take all of this into account in their Accuracy Percentage. The formula: (Completions + Drops) / (Attempts - Throw Aways - Spikes). Here's how the four QBs rank in accuracy percentage:

2011 Accuracy Percentage, NFC East QBs
QB Romo Manning Vick Grossman
2011 Accuracy 71.8 71.1 72.0 66.1

Now go back to your mental ranking. Is this the picture you expected? It certainly wasn't what I expected. In terms of accuracy, Romo, Manning and Vick are virtually identical. Only Grossman drops off somewhat, and is much better than I expected.

Deep Passing Accuracy

One of the memes about Tony Romo that pop up again and that no amount of data seems able to weed out is that Romo is supposedly unable to throw deep balls. Well, here's yet another set of numbers showing that particular storyline to be complete bunk. Deep passing accuracy measures the accuracy on passes that travel 20 yards downfield through the air.

2011 Deep Passing Accuracy, NFC East QBs
QB Romo Manning Vick Grossman
2011 Accuracy 53.8 46.9 54.3 39.5

Romo and Vick are ranked 4th and 3rd among all NFL QBs. As is to be expected, Aaron Rodgers is running laps around everybody with a 64.6 percentage. But Vick's number does come as a bit of a surprise. Perhaps I have bought too much into the popular storyline that Vick is an "average passer and a great runner", when in fact he is a very accurate passer and a great runner.

Passing under pressure

We all have our pet theories about NFL QBS. About how one guy is particularly accurate, how another guy throws a great deeep pass, or how yet another is particularly good under pressure.

Well, we already saw that for the first two points, we have some surprising results even among the small sample of the four NFC East QBs. The latter point, passing under pressure, is yet another one where the data defies some of the established storylines.

2011 Situational Passer Rating, NFC East QBs
QB Romo Manning Vick Grossman
No pressure 102.0 105.5 92.3 84.3
Under pressure 85.8 78.0 56.8 41.0

Tony Romo is the best NFC East QB when under pressure, with Manning taking up the second spot. Michael Vick, who less than three months ago told Yahoo's Michael Silver, "You can't design a defense to stop me", is particularly susceptible to pressure. Vick threw nine of his eleven interceptions while under pressure. Pressure Vick and he'll fold; give him a clean pocket and you'll be down 21-0 five minutes into the second quarter.

Decision making

Texas lore holds that the legendary UT football coach Darrell Royal once said, "Three things can happen when you pass the football, and two of them are bad."

Obviously, there is no stat that measures a QBs decision making. However, in today's pass-heavy NFL, the passer who can pass effectively while minimizing his mistakes is going to be the more succesful player. In the NFC East this year, despite all the headlines to the contrary, that is Tony Romo. He has the fewest interceptions per pass attempt, remains the most effective under pressure and is right up there in terms of accuracy and deep ball passing skills.

For all intents and purposes, Manning and Romo are playing at almost identical levels this year. The difference between them and Vick/Grossman is that they are making fewer mistakes as passers. And the difference between Romo and Manning is that for Romo, this is normal. For Manning, this year is the exception.

Having said all that - this may come as a shocking revelation to many football fans - it shouldn't come as a surprise to see that Tony Romo leads the team with the best record in the NFC East.

Comment 117 comments  |  6 recs  | 

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[(completion %) + (yards per attempt x 5 + 2.5) + (TD %)] – INT % / 6 × 5 = qb rating

At least thats how I figure it out quickly

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 7, 2011 4:39 PM CST reply actions  

does a screenpass that goes for 30 yards considered a 30 yard pass or a 1 yard pass? They add it to a qb’s total yardage.

"On a journey to anywhere you can draw your own map."

by saidseven on Dec 7, 2011 4:56 PM CST reply actions  

For the deep passing accuracy , only passes that travel 20 yards up the field through the air are counted.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 7, 2011 5:00 PM CST up reply actions  

cool thx

"On a journey to anywhere you can draw your own map."

by saidseven on Dec 8, 2011 10:21 AM CST up reply actions  

My QB is better than your QB

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN

by thebigham on Dec 7, 2011 5:00 PM CST reply actions  

Yeah, but can you blame him for sacks?

In seriousness, I must commend you on the fulfillment of your promise to mention the ‘no defense can stop me’ at any and all costs.

| Blogging The Boys | SBNation Dallas | Producer/CoHost Flood The Block Radio, TUE 7p RockTheFlow.com |

by KD Drummond on Dec 7, 2011 5:04 PM CST reply actions  

I’m not done yet. Not by a long shot.

by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 7, 2011 5:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I laugh...literally

every time you post that quote. needless to say you’ve made me laugh a lot this season.

by beWARE94 on Dec 7, 2011 5:14 PM CST up reply actions  

With all the talking heads including Jimmy Johnson dog piling JG..........

do the players rally around him and play lights out Sunday night.

Nobody cares about your effin fantasy team, keep it to yourself...........Lock n Load

by DIRE WOLF on Dec 7, 2011 5:17 PM CST reply actions  

I vote they call timeout right before every kick.

Just to prove icing the kicker is complete nonsense.

by CotySaxman on Dec 7, 2011 5:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

They're not talking about that TO, it's the one he didn't take.

Nobody cares about your effin fantasy team, keep it to yourself...........Lock n Load

by DIRE WOLF on Dec 7, 2011 5:28 PM CST up reply actions  

That one is more iffy.

I believe the chances of a negative play were comparable to the chances of a missed field goal. And he was risking overtime, not certain defeat. In my opinion, if we were down 2, or 1, we would have gone for a shorter kick.

by CotySaxman on Dec 7, 2011 5:36 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

It was a very questionable decission IMO, but the TO before the kick is a non issue.

Nobody cares about your effin fantasy team, keep it to yourself...........Lock n Load

by DIRE WOLF on Dec 7, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I watched the NFL Replay

and they definitely had some negative plays/calls… a hold or a slip in the backfield and you’re out of Bailey’s range with no Buehler available. It was definitely the right call. Players were slipping a lot in the 4th quarter so the snap and hold didn’t have anything to do with it. The Cards played us well, but definitely we should have used Demarco more… we couldn’t handle their run blitz but they seem to run at will in the 3rd quarter.

They should have been kicking from their 20 in OT as well because the call on TNew was bogus, it was within 5 yards and Roberts ran into him. We had the momentum until that play. Also, calling back the Dez punt return in the last 2 minutes, total crap, let the boys play… Cards didn’t deserve that win.

by scraig on Dec 8, 2011 1:50 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree, Garrett made the right call

Bailey can kick a 40+ FG just as easily as he can kick a 30 yarder, he’s that good. Unfortunately he just miss hit the kick.

No different than a qb making a bad throw, receiver dropping a pass or a defensive player missing a tackle. Stuff like that happens and you have to move on.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Dec 8, 2011 9:12 AM CST up reply actions  

I hope so

They have fought hard all year, so I expect nothing less this week. As it was said earlier, what happened last week doesn’t decide who we are, how we respond to it does. There is no reason we should let one timeout (or one not-called timeout) destroy our season and playoff hopes.

by me gusta on Dec 7, 2011 5:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

i think a time out is called...... upon asking that question !

woman !, don't try to understand em, don't try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
(redskins)= A Tale of 2 owners, bought by Snyder, OWNED by the COWBOYS
Id say RIP Al Davis, but i know your up there drunker than a monkey and clocking angels in the 40 yd dash.

by demonbane on Dec 7, 2011 5:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Romo certainly has picked it up as of late.

Still takin’ Eli though. :)

I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.

by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 7, 2011 5:26 PM CST reply actions  

Eh? Romo is playing at his career average.

Eli is playing 15 points better than his average, and still trails Romo in every category…

by CotySaxman on Dec 7, 2011 5:32 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Exactly

What I was going to say.

by wittenfan on Dec 7, 2011 5:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

eh, he's a giant fan

of course he’s gonna take his guy.

We're here to win football games. The way to do that is to tell him and to get on him at the right times. I do that when you guys (media) don't see and watch.''

What else makes a strong leader?

"You win,'' Romo said. "You're a very good leader once you win.

"That's' what we're going to do.''

by TARHEEL PAUL on Dec 7, 2011 5:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I have a good friend who is a midget fan, and he absolutely detests Manning, lol.

Lilly, Hayes, Staubach, Waters, Dorsett, Bates, Novacek, Emmitt, Woodson, Ware, Witten, Lee. The Legacy lives on.

by wtshaolin on Dec 7, 2011 6:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Romo wins the game for once

Actually he does not need to, when you have dez, miles, LR, Murray, felix and witten. But, Romo should be at his best to win this game. Hope he and the team wakes up and stand up once for the city and the fans.
GO COWBOYS !!!

by boys53 on Dec 7, 2011 5:27 PM CST reply actions  

I would've liked to see career numbers.

I prefer having concrete evidence of Romo > Manning. Or are you playing nice to earn the favor of the football gods?

by CotySaxman on Dec 7, 2011 5:30 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

career numbers are not indicative of how good a player is in the present.

I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.

by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 7, 2011 5:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Presently Romo is better.

Historically, he’s far better.

by CotySaxman on Dec 7, 2011 5:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Yep

If Tony’s average year is still better or equal to eli’s career year, that’s definitely saying something.

by me gusta on Dec 7, 2011 5:36 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Historically, he might be in terms of regular season stats. In terms of comeback drives and playoff performance, I'm not sure.

He had the advantage of sitting behind quarterbacks for a few years while Eli was thrown into the fire straight away.

Presently, sorry, I disagree. Their numbers are close enough in the stats that OCC posted to be wash. He fails to mention that Eli has about 400 more passing yards than Romo does this season. That ain’t because he throws it much more either…Eli’s YPA is 8.4 versus Tony’s YPA at 7.9.

On top of that, Eli hasn’t really cost the Giants any games this season. Romo has two games that can be directly attributed to his play: Jets and Lions. And Romo has an effective ground attack to keep a balanced attack whereas nobody has to really care about our rushing attack, and they know we’re throwing the ball.

I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.

by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 7, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

As far as their career, the biggest thing is the SB trophy.

SB victories define a QBs career IMO.

Nobody cares about your effin fantasy team, keep it to yourself...........Lock n Load

by DIRE WOLF on Dec 7, 2011 5:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I ain’t going to be one of those guys that comes in here and starts laughing as says “hahahaha Eli all TEH WAY. Romo is TEH suxx0rest”

I understand what Romo has done, and in terms of pure, statistical production…looking at an entire career, he runs circles around Eli. I’m not going to lie and say he isn’t an awesome QB, because he is, and I’ve always said so.

HOWEVER, and I know this point is both beaten to death, and impossible to quantify in any way…but, yeah, if the game were on the line, and I had to pick one of the two…I’d pick Eli 100 times out of 100. Maybe its just perception, but I would not trust Romo NEARLY as much…and that’s been the case for the past 2-3 years.

I know it isn’t fair to compare them this way, but it is what it is in my eyes. Since Eli got that superbowl ring, he’s been a very good QB, especially in the clutch. In the past couple years, even in a down year for Eli last year (comparatively to 2008 and 2009), you would see any fanposts on how bad Eli was or how unclutch he was or what not. Giants fans have that confidence about him, justified or not, but more or less in every game this year, when we’ve been down, there hasn’t been any doubt in most all BBV members that Eli would bring them back. And he has for the most part. The games that we’ve lost, the Giants defense let them down at the very end, like you saw with the Green Bay and Philly games.

I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.

by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 7, 2011 5:56 PM CST up reply actions  

In the Philly game...

You don’t think Eli’s fumble was costly? You know, the game clinching turnover, committed by Eli, that sticks to Romo but slips off Eli instantly?

by CotySaxman on Dec 7, 2011 6:03 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

well when you are blindsided and your arm is hit, I'd like to think that not even the

lovechild of Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady would hold on to the ball.

I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.

by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 7, 2011 6:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Romo's fumbles are all similar...

In the Jets game, even worse. He took a helmet to the ball and it came out. But you blame him.

by CotySaxman on Dec 7, 2011 6:18 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I don't remember it that way because I thought he was scrambling

forward as opposed to trying to pass.

If that isn’t the case, then my bad.

I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.

by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 7, 2011 6:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Diving head-first into the end zone.

If the helmet hits his shoulder, hips, or head, he scores. Hit the ball, fumble.

by CotySaxman on Dec 7, 2011 6:29 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Ahh, so many problems, so little time...

Eli was a number one overall pick. Romo was unseated. Romo played division 2 college ball. You don’t think Eli got any seasoning in college?

The Cowboys had a running game for, what, 6 games this year? Outside of that, we’ve been a 3 ypc team. The Cowboys have ben blown out once this year. The Giants? 4 times. Says something about your quarterback if you aren’t even competetive… Blowout wins? Cowboys 3, Giants 2.

by CotySaxman on Dec 7, 2011 5:51 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah, and those 6 games made a difference. Look at his passer rating:

101.9 – Jets
116.4 – SF
70.9 – WAS
86.4 – DET
87.1 – NE
Demarco Murray shows up right about here

107.3 – STL
66.7 – PHI
112.2 – SEA
148.4 – BUF
113.8 – WAS
78.8 – MIA
95.2 – ARI

Yeah, I’d say the presence of a running game has helped out.

I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.

by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 7, 2011 6:05 PM CST up reply actions  

No, I would say him getting healthy is what has helped.

The only thing Eli does better than Romo is the “health” thing.

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN

by thebigham on Dec 7, 2011 6:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Fiammetta starting... that happened at the same time

Let’s forget about the Murray show for a moment and yank the Philly game. Fiammetta and Miles in the offense guarantees that Romo is able to play with Aaron Rodgers-type numbers.

A healthy FB and deep threat-WR make this offense elite. They had a lot of problems vs Arizona that they wouldn’t have with Tony and Miles.

Also, with the way Dez played against Peterson the field could get wide-open for Romo against a pretty soft secondary.

by scraig on Dec 8, 2011 2:00 AM CST up reply actions  

false

eli is the 2nd best 4th quarter passer in the league to aaron rodgers. fact.

by The Blood of Eli on Dec 8, 2011 7:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Since 2006 no quarterback — not Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers, has a better fourth-quarter passer rating than Romo (100.0). Only Brees (39) and Philip Rivers (39) have more fourth-quarter touchdown passes than Romo’s 34. Only Brees (5,905), Manning (4,886) and Rivers (4,751) have more fourth-quarter yards than Romo’s 4,712.

has thrown 17 fourth-quarter interceptions, which is fewer than Brees (25), Brett Favre (25), Eli Manning (27), Jay Cutler (22) and Ben Roethlisberger (22) among others. Brady has just 11. Peyton Manning has 13.

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN

by thebigham on Dec 8, 2011 8:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Elis best is Romos avg

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN

by thebigham on Dec 8, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

This is true.

Taking the flack jacket off (sometime around the SEA game) was when Romo took off. BigBlue has a point….running games do take pressure off of QBs, but Tony looked like a completely different person once he wasn’t worried about taking another shot to his sore ribs. His mobility improved and his hesitation disappeared.

Wins are the best medicine...the ultimate cure-all.

by Pharm.D. on Dec 8, 2011 8:42 AM CST up reply actions  

What else shoes up there?

Elite numbers, then broken ribs numbers, then elite numbers. We didn’t run all over New York or San Fran…

by CotySaxman on Dec 7, 2011 6:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Props where props are due. Romo beasted the SF game.

NYJ, he still lost the game, and you know it.

As far as the broken ribs are concerned, that probably has something to do with it, yeah. So does the presence of a running game.

I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.

by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 7, 2011 6:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Not only is Murray a beastly runner, he's a rib-healing shaman?

Realize, the New York game featured a huge special teams failure. That was 7 points. The rest of the game, including Romo’s 1 interception over-100 QBR game, had the Cowboys wining by 4.

by CotySaxman on Dec 7, 2011 6:17 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Eli had 100+ rating in the NO and GB games, and a 92 rating in the SEA game...they were all losses too,

Like I said, yeah, give Romo credit for playing with the hurt ribs and winning games. I’m saying that the running game has helped his numbers as well by taking some of the pressure off.

Eli has had none of that all season.

I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.

by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 7, 2011 6:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I love watching CotySaxman debate...he's got all the facts like that, and BigBlue you lose!

After I read each of BigBlue’s posts, I thought of my reply and Coty has already nailed it much articulately than I ever could with all of the supporting stat’s etc. Great Job!

by CowboysInFL on Dec 7, 2011 9:52 PM CST up reply actions  

our D let us down in the 2nd half, so did our Special Teams play

but I remember the Plaxico bomb being the biggest lift to a sad Jets offense…

by scraig on Dec 8, 2011 2:05 AM CST up reply actions  

So much wrong with this
n top of that, Eli hasn’t really cost the Giants any games this season.

So Eli didn’t cost them the Seattle or San Fran game? Or even the philly game

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN

by thebigham on Dec 7, 2011 6:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Eli has 18 Comeback drives Romo 13

And Eli has 42 more starts than Romo. Romo has the highest passer rating of any QB EVER in the 4th Qtr fyi.

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN

by thebigham on Dec 7, 2011 6:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I fully admit for the first 3 or so seasons Eli's sucked.

He’s been bad, real bad. But he’s not the same quarterback as he was in 2006 or for the most part of 2007 even.

I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.

by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 7, 2011 6:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I still thin k that Romo is better

But Eli has been very good this year, let’s hope for the Giants he doesn’t regress to his mean

by Elks83 on Dec 8, 2011 1:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Seattle game

Threw perfect pass to Victor Cruz, who bobbled it and knocked it up for an easy pick six. Cruz’s fault, not Eli’s. That’s opposed to Romo making two bad decisions to get INT’d.

San Francisco game, he didn’t cause the Giants to lose, the defense did. Eli drove them down the field, had two drops at the 10 yards line, caused it to go to 4th down where it gets knocked away.

Philly game, OL. You saw it. He got crushed every time. He fumbled because he was hit on the blindside and Babin hit his hand. That’s opposed to Romo’s fumble vs the Jets game where he just lost it.

I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.

by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 7, 2011 6:09 PM CST up reply actions  

And in our 5 losses

We played perfect football. 45 out of our 46 players had perfect games, putting us in position to win the game. Unfortunately, Romo did everything in his power to lose those games, and succeeded.

by CotySaxman on Dec 7, 2011 6:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

certainly seemed that way for the Jets game and the Detroit game....to the vast majority of the public.

And that was similar thinking for a huge amount of BTBers around that time as well.

I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.

by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 7, 2011 6:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Give Romo a D like the Giants had in the stretch run in 2007

and he wins a SB as well. What has eli done in the playoffs before that or since?

by burmafrd1944 on Dec 7, 2011 6:23 PM CST up reply actions  

What has Romo? 1 playoff win.

I’d rather not go down this route, mate, because from experience it doesn’t end well haha. The Giants D was not spectacular. Eli had a 100+ rating 6 TDs and 1 INT in those playoffs. Giants D was average up until the NE game.

In any case, I’ll be back later…off to dinner. This was fun though, look forward to debating more with you guys. Y’all know your stuff.

I support the Giants like bras support Kim Kardashian's boobs. It can be a struggle, we've had some jiggles, but we're still firm.

by BigBlueIntervention on Dec 7, 2011 6:27 PM CST up reply actions  

All that is media-driven lore

Good QBs play well and if everything goes their way, they might win a SB.

Eli had not lived up to the hype. Until the past two seasons. I think he is finally the QB people have claimed he is now.

Romo is the opposite case. He started hot, they loved him, he didn’t win it all in 2007, they knocked him off the pedestal they constructed, started all the crazy talk that he choked or couldn’t win in December. The truth is that they are both very good QBs now and either one has what it takes to help their team win a championship given sufficient talent around them.

Don't believe everything you think.

by dunkman on Dec 7, 2011 9:05 PM CST up reply actions  

All that extra experience...

… and he’s being compared to a relatively inexperienced UDFA. Is that your point?

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2011 9:20 AM CST up reply actions  

no my point is

that it is unfair to compare romos first few seasonswith elis first few seasons. romo was in the nfl already for a number of years and eli was not.

by The Blood of Eli on Dec 8, 2011 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Eli was NFL ready he went to a D1 top school, had the pedigree and all.

Romo did not.

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN

by thebigham on Dec 8, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Ummm...

Eii was drafted in 2004 draft, 1st overall. Tony was signed as UDFA in 2003, 3rd on training camp depth chart, then nearly let go in 2004 training camp as a result of numbers game resulting from Testaverde sign after being essentially relegated to 4th on depth chart, with minimal playing time till taking over as stater on October 23, 2006. Eli’s first start was November 21, 2004 and his tenure as Giants regular starter began at beginning of 2005 season.

So, no, Romo was notin the nfl already for a number of years and eli was not”. He was a rostered player with zero playing time till 2006. Eli’d already played a season and a half by the time Romo got any significant playing time. Yes, he played 2 downs on October 9, 2005, “rushed” (kneel downs) for a whole -2 yds, then 3 more downs October 1, 2006 for diddly, then 2 more downs October 15, 2006 (throwing for 35 yds), then the 14/25 Giants game that year, then the progression his first start as Cowboys QB, October 29, 2006.

Fact.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2011 8:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Unfair?

I’ll not whine about any nonsense of “fairness”. Both these guys, Manning and Romo, earned their shots at being where they are. That Eli’s been a starter in 115 games to Tony’s 73 is a lack of experience I’ll simply be required to live with, at present. Like Eli having a Super Bowl championship ring and Romo not, at present. But whine, especially in defiance of facts, no, I’ll leave that to others.

Cry 'Havoc!'

by tanstaafl on Dec 8, 2011 8:32 PM CST up reply actions  

So in 4 Games he had 6 TDS

wow HE WAS really on fire. Sounds like your self proclaimed average D was holding everyone – PLAYOFF TEAMS- to well under their season averages. Especially US and the PATS. How many did the pats score- vs their season average? That sounds like the D was a LOT more than Average; and Eli did not turn over the ball; but not much more.

by burmafrd1944 on Dec 8, 2011 5:59 AM CST up reply actions  

i agree with this

in 2007 eli was the best game manager he could possibly be. however. eli made the final drive of the 2007 season and won the game. period.

by The Blood of Eli on Dec 8, 2011 7:54 AM CST up reply actions  

You just said it my friend: to the vast majority of the public

They don’t watch our games, they hear what ESPN is trying to feed them. The bobbled snap, the December failures (but they don’t talk about last December, oh no, not once have I heard that the last Dec. Romo played he won 3 or 4 straight), and lately: the Garrett doesn’t trust Romo argument. If anything he doesn’t trust the line (how can he not trust a QB that has 4 GW drives in 7 wins and almost 5, but for a missed FG??) The vast majority of the public will eat whatever BS ESPN feeds them.

Respect for your objective comments and sticking by your QB, but you know most of what the media feeds is BS.

by BoyzNick on Dec 7, 2011 7:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Let’s not rule out the missed tackles on those pick 6s against Detroit. They make a tackle on those and you have vastly different results. Maybe they still pull out TDs, but time is ticking away while they do it, and leaving them less time to get that last game winning score.
Fumble against the Jets, As he was just trying to get down the ball received a helmet hit and it popped out. Not easy to hold onto there. And then a blocked Punt for a TD. I don’t think that was Romo missing his blocking assignment.

by Aaron Burtram on Dec 7, 2011 9:30 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

This isn't even worth my time.

So Eli’s fumble was a good fumble and Romo had a bad fumble?

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player and 2012's Superbowl MVP
"No one gives us the right, we take it." L. ~SPN

by thebigham on Dec 7, 2011 6:38 PM CST up reply actions  

the SEA game

the backbreaking INT was Cruz popping a ball up for an easy pick… I can see how you blame Eli for that one.

by brisulph on Dec 8, 2011 8:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Woa

Just had a flash back to bennett popping one up for a pick earlier this year too. But, hey let’s blame Romo for that

by Aaron Burtram on Dec 8, 2011 8:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I never did

I like Romo, think he is a good QB.

by brisulph on Dec 9, 2011 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

.

I’ll give you the lions game but the Jets game is debateable. I really think Dez was supposed to stop on his route in front of Revis, not run past him into double coverage. It looked to me like Romo was throwing basically a jump ball to Dez, but Dez passed Revis and let Revis have the inside position. Revis is a bad man for sure, but if Dez stays in front of Revis with a high ball, my money is on Dez to make that catch. If you watch the replay, it even looks like Dez is confused on what he should do. He even stumbles like he was caught between running past Revis or stopping in front of him. IMO it was an option route that Dez screwed up.

by dangle66 on Dec 7, 2011 7:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Wait, what? They Giants won his three-pick game? Or was it four? The Jets

game was actually lost on a blocked punt, if you want to get technical.

by Fernie67 on Dec 7, 2011 7:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Great article OCC, but the bottom line is winning.

These stats underscore the potential for a QB to win, but he’s nothing without the right supporting cast. I wonder how Tebow would stack up against these four. I’d bet not very good and yet with the great D ( God I wish we had been able to get Von Miller) and the running game in Denver he’s winning. Now before I get crucified bringing Tebow up, I’m not advocating him as a long term solution for the Bronco’s future.

Wish you were here and comfortably numb.

by pfloyd1 on Dec 7, 2011 5:57 PM CST reply actions  

Love Von, I saw him play here

Would’ve loved to get both, but people underestimate what we got in Smith. The guy’s not old enough to drink, that says it all

by BoyzNick on Dec 7, 2011 7:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Regarding Vick:

I don’t think it’s that hard to throw the deep ball to the wide open receiver that can slow down and speed up to adjust to the ball like that his receiver can. It’s a lot harder to throw that pass in the middle of the field in a tight window between two defenders, and that’s why Vick’s numbers despite the long passes are so much lower.

by BoyzNick on Dec 7, 2011 7:12 PM CST reply actions  

great article

I’d love to see running games somehow factored in, but I guess there’s no perfect formula

I got banned from Jests Blog for saying Chad Henne has better stats than Mark Sanchez. And they think they're the big brothers in this town? LMAO try again little sisters!

Let's Go Giants!!!!

by maculis on Dec 7, 2011 8:23 PM CST reply actions  

Both Manning and Romo are playing well.

I don’t see enough of the Giants games to say,
but for the Cowboys, they are not even .500 without Romo. Their OLine is so porous at times he’s just about the only QB in the league who can even win behind it.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, the real question is, is it a good beer? Realist Larry, 2011

by Realist Larry on Dec 7, 2011 9:14 PM CST reply actions  

2007

played the next game after a separated shoulder injury (suffered against the Cowboys or Packers I think)… also right around 110-some straight starts (you gonna tell me he has been 100% healthy the whole time). Dude is tough.

by brisulph on Dec 8, 2011 8:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Well i may get shunned for saying this

But I love Eli manning hate that he plays for the giants but I love this man. Just for the reason be is not peyton. Peyton is by far my most hated qb two step 5-8 yard throws just make want to vomit. Everyone says running the football is out dated its a passing league OK good fine nice to hear but it makes for a good football game. Peyton is so damn boring. Look at that amazing throw he hits no name for 5 yards. Oh wow did you see the accuracy on that 9 yard pass to another no name. I give him his football knowledge prolly best qb around but boring as hell. Glad Eli has matched his sb wins and hope he gets atleast one more on him. Damn Eli for playing for the giants.

by Sado44 on Dec 7, 2011 10:50 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

I dont think he would

Eli seems to have more balls than his older brother. I’d never take Eli over Romo not in a million interceptions wait yea that’s what I ment. But I am worried TC might loss his job and the next HC might be smart enough to give Eli more control over this offense and that would actually make the giants a major threat. His 4 min drill and 2 min drills are almost strategic. But Romo is just plain surgical in 2 min drill.

by Sado44 on Dec 9, 2011 12:01 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

for a full season i will take romo

for a playoff run or a game winning drive i will take eli

by The Blood of Eli on Dec 8, 2011 7:55 AM CST reply actions  

thanks for another good writings..

May The Force Be With the 'Boys! Amen!

by sbnles on Dec 8, 2011 11:54 AM CST reply actions  

Rec'd

Great read man. ’Ppreciate that.

Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack.
~Sun Tzu

by CDMac24 on Dec 8, 2011 5:26 PM CST reply actions  

This blog, in combination with his performance this year, underline my message: It’s time to lay off Tony Romo. If we exclude his two big-errors quarters, Romo is having a superb year, with exceptional outings against the 49ers and the Giants; he is more than pulling his weight. Imagine where the Cowboys would be with a good secondary and offensive line and without Garret’s clock and strategy errors. Romo is as good as they come, at least 25 NFL teams would love to have him, and hyper-critical Dallas fans can point blaming fingers elsewhere. Incidentally, he is not slumping this month – the Boys defense is wimping out.

by mangomano on Dec 13, 2011 2:27 PM CST reply actions  

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