Football Outsiders' SackSEER: Potential Edge Rushers In The 2011 Draft
Last year, the fine folks at Football Outsiders introduced us to SackSEER, a regression-based formula developed to predict the NFL success of edge rushers selected in the NFL Draft.
The formula is based on four metrics: vertical leap, short shuttle time, SRAM or adjusted sacks per game in college (with some playing time adjustments), and how many eligible games worth of NCAA football the player missed for any reason (includes games lost because the player was enrolled at a junior college, but excludes early entry into the NFL Draft).
Yesterday, Football Outsiders published their SackSEER numbers for college edge rushers in the 2011 NFL Draft class. SackSEER is not the be-all and end-all of statistical analysis, and FO themselves argue that it is more accurate at identifying busts than it is at singling out potential stars, but it is definitely worth a detailed look. Which is exactly what we'll do after the break.
If you're not familiar with SackSEER, here's a brief outline of how it works:
There are four main factors that correlate to sack success in the NFL: vertical leap, short shuttle time, sacks per game in college (with some playing time adjustments), and how many eligible games worth of NCAA football the player missed for any reason (except early entry into the NFL Draft). SackSEER projects each prospect's total sacks through five years, which is roughly the average length of the rookie contract received by a first- or second-round pick.
Although the individual trends are small, when considered together, they project sack production approximately three times more accurately than a player's draft position within the first two rounds. Overall, SackSEER accounts for approximately 40 percent of the historical variation among these players' accumulated five-year sack totals.
The model is not without its detractors, and the model has predicted a number of head-scratchers last year, most notably underestimating the Giants' Jason Pierre-Paul, who met his five-year sack projection in his first year in the league. It completely missed on the Bengals' Carlos Dunlap, who led all rookies with 9.5 sacks last year, and it also may have overrated the Colts' Jerry Hughes, who played little in 2010 but was touted as the best pass rushing prospect of the 2010 class.
But their other six projections from last year look to be solid, and harping on a few high-profile misses is always easier than looking at the overall accuracy of the model. Applying the model to edge rushers drafted into the NFL since 1999 yields more accurate predictions than misses. So don't discard the model just because of some high profile misses. For the most part, the model is fairly accurate.
Note that the model applies only to 4-3 defensive ends and 3-4 outside linebackers, but not to 3-4 defensive ends. This means that players like J.J. Watt, Adrian Clayborn, Cameron Jordan, Allen Bailey, and Cameron Heyward, all potentially on the Cowboys shopping list, are not included in SackSEER.
Here's how this year's draft class stacked up:
| Player | College | Vertical | Short Shuttle | SRAM | Missed Games | 5-Year Sack Projection |
|
Von Miller |
Texas A&M |
37.0" |
4.06 |
0.76 |
4 |
36.4 |
|
Justin Houston |
Georgia |
36.5" |
4.37 |
0.61 |
3 |
26.0 |
|
Ryan Kerrigan |
Purdue |
33.5" |
4.39 |
0.70 |
1 |
24.7 |
|
Da'Quan Bowers |
Clemson |
34.5" |
4.45 |
0.60 |
2 |
22.0 |
|
Aldon Smith |
Missouri |
34.0" |
4.50 |
0.62 |
3 |
20.0 |
|
Robert Quinn |
North Carolina |
34.0" |
4.40 |
0.56 |
13 |
15.5 |
|
Brooks Reed |
Arizona |
30.5" |
4.28 |
0.34 |
5 |
15.1 |
|
Jabaal Sheard |
Pittsburgh |
31.5" |
4.65 |
0.39 |
5 |
10.6 |
[Hat tip to Fan in Thick and Thin for the Fanshot]
It is worth noting that missed games are the factor in the model correlating most strongly with the final projection:
SackSEER suggests that a college edge rusher who misses numerous games for any reason other than early declaration for the NFL Draft has little chance of succeeding as a professional.
This includes players who miss games due to injury, suspensions, academic standards, or sickness. Medical redshirts are included, although standard freshman redshirts are not. Players with health issues in college tend to have health issues in the NFL (Erasmus James, for example). Missing games for other reasons is also indicative of failure at the NFL level.
As such, the model comes down particularly hard on Robert Quinn, whom most pundits see as a top ten pick in this year's draft. If you're in the Cowboys front office and looking to improve the Cowboys' pass rush, what do you do?
Of course, you can always hope that Von Miller falls your way, but barring that minor miracle, who, according to these numbers and their position on your draft board, is the optimal candidate? Or would you go after a 3-4 DE?
After all, interior pass rushers are becoming more and more important, as teams are increasingly adapting to the more traditional outside edge rushers with short drops and quick throws. If all a QB has to do to avoid the pass rush is step up in the pocket, you've got a pass rushing problem. One that could leave you with a 6-10 record.
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fiiiirst
and good morning fellow BTB’ers
Thursday Jan 6, 2011--Doin' things the 'Cowboy Way'
Congrats and good luck Coach Garrett !
Marc Schiechl has a better SRAM than Von Miller!!!!!!!!
Clearly he is the better player. And that doesn’t even take into account his 38 reps on the bench.
Deep Underground Mining Sleeper
Marc Schiechl hails from the Colorado School of Mines. Schiechl recorded 46.0 sacks for the Orediggers, which is good for a .97 SRAM, higher than every edge rusher in the data set save for Terrell Suggs and Robert Mathis. Although he had only average workout numbers from his pro day— he had a 35-inch vertical and a 4.50 shuttle -his freakish production is hard to ignore, even though it came at the Division II level. Although Schiechl is a long shot who may not even get drafted, his profile is similar to Division I-AA prospects such as Mathis and Jared Allen, whose stellar production at small schools foreshadowed similar success at the NFL level.
Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith
Go Lissy!!!
Schiechl = better Lissimore?
The Ohio State Buckeyes are your Sugar Bowl champions... and for the 7th year in a row Michigan still sucks.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Apr 12, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
We Have More Important Needs Than an Edge Rusher
I say give Rob Ryan a year with Anthony Spencer and see what he can do. We have too many big needs on the OL and DB.
To solve your problem you can just draft an elite edge rusher in the later rounds
by drafting Marc Schiechl!!!
Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith
I’d feel a lot better if Dallas did that. Or if they had scooped Phillip Hunt.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Apr 12, 2011 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Wellllllll
Chris Gocong had the same kind of numbers from a small school and Philly scooped him up 3 years ago. Hardly played his first year, some his second and they traded him his third.
But this guy who measures similarly could be way different.
by LiveNDieBlue on Apr 12, 2011 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Gocong started 3 years for the Eagles
and at SAM linebacker.
It’s really an irrelevant comparison, but if it was a comparison I would love LOVE to get a 3 year starter our of a 7th round pick / UDFA.
The Ohio State Buckeyes are your Sugar Bowl champions... and for the 7th year in a row Michigan still sucks.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Apr 12, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
What are the
SackSEER numbers for recent draft successes/busts? Like Clay Matthews vs. Vernon Gholston, for example.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aq_pzudn-VEDdEkzNkYydFFOSlNsV0VrOXM1LUltX3c&hl=en#gid=2
last tab in the spreadsheet …lots of historicals
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Apr 12, 2011 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions
just added in.
Ghoston as 35.5. / 4.40
One notable point about Ghoston. The reported vertical at his pro-day was 42" which was a huge difference to his combine results.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Apr 12, 2011 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Well if you check here
The first post on SackSEER has the best and worst projections.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2010/introducing-sackseer
by blackgallagher on Apr 12, 2011 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions
forster himself is pretty puzzled by Quinn
However, because standing on his Combine numbers would be far too simple, Quinn also worked out at his Pro Day, where he recorded a 4.26-second shuttle but lost an inch off of his vertical leap. He also recorded an amazing 10-foot-5.5-inch broad jump, which is 7.5 inches farther than his broad jump at the Combine. The disparity between Quinn’s Pro Day vertical and his broad jump is huge: It is larger than all but five out of the 250 edge rushers drafted since 1999. Historically, numbers for “redo” drills like Quinn’s have not had any predictive value, but there is no particular reason to expect this trend to continue.
Given all of the asterisks for Quinn’s projection, if we were setting betting lines for Vegas, we would probably take him off the table all together.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Apr 12, 2011 9:23 AM CDT reply actions
U know I have no opinion on any of these guys....don't know squat about them and there are to many opinions on each player and to many players in this catagory it' would give me a headache to do the research.
I stand on previous statements that IMHO DL/DE OLB/ILB success rates are very marginal unless they are standouts like Willis/Sapp/White and even then it’s questionable- Look AT A.J. Hawk didn’t he go at #5 ( good but not great) then a player like Clay Mathews goes 26th and he’s a Manster and so and so on and so on.
Basic I only posted because I missed the the thread on Smith yesterday and I feel left out. LOL
Justin Houston
people sleep on this guy
by Archie Barberio on Apr 12, 2011 12:24 PM CDT reply actions
Not a high priority
unless Miller or possibly Quinn fall into our lap. I like the idea of this guy, Schiechl, if he’s for real.
Really
The model is not without its detractors, and the model has predicted a number of head-scratchers last year, most notably underestimating the Giants’ Jason Pierre-Paul, who met his five-year sack projection in his first year in the league
You’re crowning JPP after one year of being above average. He could do nothing for the rest of his career. Also, Jerry Hughes was behind Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis, and again it’s only been one year. Again, really?
http://cowboysanalysis.blogspot.com/

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