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Cowboys Mock Draft Roundup: Tyron Smith All The Way

Btb_draft_medium_mediumLast week, it was Tony Pauline of Sports Illustrated passing on a draft rumor linking Tyron Smith to the Cowboys on his Draftinsider.com blog, this week Peter King and Gil Brandt weigh in. King wrote the following in his latest MMQB:

Dallas does love 20-year-old USC tackle Tyron Smith and is seriously considering taking him at nine.

Gil Brandt had this to say about the Cowboys draft plans in a chat with football fans yesterday:

If you take the best player -- provided you are not getting out of a plateau -- they probably take Tyron Smith, a fine offensive tackle from USC who is going to play a long time, or J.J. Watt. I don't think they will take a DB with that pick. Again, I think the value is going to be much greater in the second round for a defensive back.

Well, all of this makes looking at mock drafts kind of boring. But boring is good, right? Especially if it finally gets you a (potentially) elite offensive lineman. So today, in an effort to convince the skeptics that Tyron Smith is the right choice for the Cowboys, we'll look at whether the draftniks have anything to say about Smith beyond "potential upside".

Star-divide

Of the 25 mock drafts we regularly monitor, 17 (68%) have the Cowboys taking Tyron Smith, up from 14 last week. Here's what some of them had to say:

Drafttek.com, 4/12/2011: Tyron Smith, OT, USC

"I know, I know, it's getting old -- but did you see the number of 1st round OL prospects Dallas brought in for visits? Now, that could mean a "compare and contrast" for trading down -- but unfortunately, we have to stay right where we are for the CMD. If Cuzzin Jerruh doesn't get itchy fingers and trade up (Peterson) or trade down (for more picks & Carimi), Dallas takes the best value for the #9 pick. Smith can play LOT and Free can play ROT if they decide to switch in the future. Old Long Ball has it on good authority from 2 different sources that the Cowboys have requested more game film from USC on Smith than any other team. - Long Ball"

NFL.com (Steve Wyche), 4/11/2011: Tyron Smith, OT, USC

"The Cowboys aren’t hiding their interest in the powerful tackle. Smith could plug in at right tackle right away, which wouldn’t be out of the norm for recent high OT selections."

DraftAce.com (Ryan McCrystal), 4/11/2011: Tyron Smith, OT, USC

"The Cowboys need to upgrade their aging offensive line and Smith clearly has the highest ceiling of any prospect in this class. Smith played right tackle at USC, but has demonstrated this offseason that he has the athleticism and the size to easily shift over to the left side. This is definitely a risky pick, but the Cowboys don’t have many other options. If Smith isn’t high on their board, they will probably try hard to trade down."

Walter Football, 4/11/2011: Tyron Smith, OT, USC

"First of all, Jones has to make sure that his biggest investment, Tony Romo, is protected. Dallas lost all hope when Romo was knocked out for the year against the Giants. Marc Colombo is a sieve at right tackle, so Dallas must find an upgrade at the position to keep Romo healthy.

Second, Tyron Smith is arguably the top player available. Billed as the next D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Smith had a phenomenal Pro Day, weighing in at 310 pounds and carrying his new bulk well.


And third, there's been a lot of buzz about Smith being Dallas' pick at No. 9. It could be a smokescreen, but then again, the pick does make a ton of sense."

DraftKing.com (Lou Pickney), 4/8/2011: Tyron Smith, OT, USC

"Smith went mostly overlooked on many draft boards going into the 2010 season at USC, which was understandable considering that he was a junior playing right tackle. But he performed very well for the Trojans last year, attracting the attention of scouts and NFL general managers.

Smith has been linked to Dallas at this spot in multiple media articles, and while I would normally brush off speculation linking Smith to the Cowboys here as a smokescreen, Jerry Jones is rather fearless about letting his intentions for his top pick become common knowledge. This isn't to say that Smith is a lock for this position, but I feel better about this projection than I do about most of the others."

ESPN.com (Todd McShay), 4/6/2011: Tyron Smith, OT, USC

"This is not a splash pick but the Cowboys have a big need at offensive tackle and this is the area where the run on the top OTs will likely begin. And it's always better to be on the front end of a run than chasing it from behind. Dallas needs to protect QB Tony Romo and it appears current RT Marc Colombo is on his last leg, making Smith a good fit. He has the ability to play on either side and Smith's upside is greater than any other tackle in this draft."

ESPN.com (Mel Kiper), 4/6/2011: Tyron Smith, OT, USC

"A number of times this year, I've noted how Dallas might look to trade down. After all, picking in the top 10 of this draft wasn't likely to allow them to get full value if they targeted an offensive tackle, something many wish Jerry Jones would have done in 2010. Well, in Smith, they have the option of taking a player who projects as a future blindside tackle, and he's in a perfect spot in terms of value, having risen all the way to No. 9 on the Big Board. It's a need pick, and a player who could help Dallas in short order."

Mocking The Draft (Dan Kadar), 3/30/2011: Tyron Smith, OT, USC

"When the actual draft takes place, it won't be a surprise to see Dallas trade out of this pick. They could move up to take Patrick Peterson or down to get more value for an offensive lineman. If the pick is Smith, it's a good one. It was a surprise when he entered the draft because many considered him to be a top five pick in the 2012 draft. So to get him a year early would be a shrewd move. If Dallas really wants Smith, they may have to do so with the ninth pick because he may be a target for Washington with the 10th pick."

A few dissenting opinions:

Pro Football Weekly (Nolan Nawrocki), 4/8/2011: Marcell Dareus, DL, Alabama

"Jerry Jones is a value-driven decision maker who has loaded his roster with talent by selecting the best player available. If Dareus happens to fall to No. 9 because teams ahead of him are focused on filling needs, it would allow Jones to fill a great need of his own and also land great value. Dareus is capable of playing anywhere along a 3-4 front and could make the Cowboys' pass rush even more daunting than it already is with DeMarcus Ware, the best pass rusher in football."

Draft Season (Eric Falk), 4/11/11: Prince Amukamara CB, Nebraska:

"The Cowboys need help at defensive end & offensive line too, but would be money ahead by grabbing the second best corner in the draft.  Taking one of the tackles could be a reach, and defensive end is pretty deep this year."

NEpatriotsdraft.com, 4/12/2011: Cameron Jordan, DE, California

"The Cowboys are reportedly in love with Patrick Peterson, although we don’t think there is any way he drops this far. If the Cowboys aren’t enamored with Nebraska CB Prince Amukamara, they might look towards the DE position. An at times dominant defender that can play the run and the pass, Jordan can play in multiple sets and sub packages. Already fluent in the 3-4 defense from his time at Cal. Jordan was the best player on the field for the majority of the Senior Bowl. He has the ability to play OLB, although he hasn’t been asked to play that position so far in his career."

Dallas Cowboys Mock Draft overview (min. five rounds deep)

Site Date 1st Round 2nd Round 3rd Round 4th Round 5th Round 6th Round 7th Round 7th Round
Draft Tek 4/12 Tyron Smith, OT, USC Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State
John Moffitt, OG, Wisconsin
Chris White, ILB, Mississippi State
Jalil Brown, CB, Colorado
Anthony Gray, DT, Southern Miss
Jaiquawn Jarrett, FS, Temple
Kenny Rowe, OLB, Oregon
Walter Football 4/11 Tyron Smith, OT, USC Ras-I Dowling, CB, Virginia Quinton Carter, FS, Oklahoma Jason Pinkston, OG, Pittsburgh Roy Helu, RB, Nebraska Vincent Brown, WR, San Diego State - - - -
NFL Draft Blitz 4/8 Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU Phil Taylor, DT, Baylor Kendall Hunter, RB, Oklahoma State Mark Herzlich, LB, Boston College Ahmad Black, S, Florida T.J. Yates, QB, North Carolina Akeem Dent, LB, Georgia Ryan Winterswyk, DE, Boise State
Russ Lande (Sporting News)
4/11 Tyron Smith, OT, USC Jerrard Tarrant, S, Georgia Tech Jerrell Powe, NT, Mississippi Alex Henery, PK, Nebraska William Rackley, OG, Lehigh Joshua Bynes, LB, Auburn Evan Royster, RB, Penn State Dwayne Harris, WR, East Carolina

Last week, Drafttek again walked away with the victory in our poll of which mocks BTB readers like the best - for the fifth consecutive time, and each time with a different mock. Once again, you can now vote for one of the mock drafts above. This week Walter Football and NFL Draft Blitz challenge hard for the win: Walter Football ups the ante by going O-line and secondary and adding a highly intriguing back, while Draft Blitz goes all in for the win with two top picks that are both highly unlikely to be there when the Cowboys are on the clock. We also have mainstream draftnik Russ Lande joining the fray. Who gets your vote?

Poll
Which mock draft do you like the best?
1. Draft Tek
292 votes
2. Walter Football
58 votes
3. NFL Draft Blitz
139 votes
4. Russ Lande (Sporting News)
23 votes

512 votes | Poll has closed

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I expect Jerry will trade down if he can.

I have Castonnzo rated a little better than Smith, but either will be good in the NFL for a long time IMO.

Lock n Load

by DIRE WOLF on Apr 12, 2011 3:01 PM CDT reply actions  

NFL Draft Blitz

is like a worst case scenario for me. Not that I wouldn’t be excited about Peterson and Taylor, but with no O-Line picks through the entire draft, I would take it as a sign that we’re in full rebuilding mode.

I ran into a group of men trying to take an old lady's purse and decided it was my duty to help out. She was a tough old broad, but in the end we got her purse.

by MilesAhead on Apr 12, 2011 3:04 PM CDT reply actions  

I can't believe

that 22% of those polled picked a mock with no OL picks at all. They are either totally enamored with Peterson or they’re Eagles fans.

by pfloyd1 on Apr 12, 2011 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is crazy to think both those players could be had by the Cowboys

If Peterson falls to #9, I would be shocked.

The NFL Draft Blitz should stop after 2 Rounds, since it would take the rest of our remaining picks to trade up for Peterson and Taylor (according to most draft pundits). . . . . . Oh, wait, we can’t trade our second 7th, so I guess we would get 3 picks overall.

by RE1D on Apr 12, 2011 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Draft Tek

3 big uglies in the first three rounds :-)

He who laughs last, thinks slowest
Well.....my days of not taking you seriously have certainly come to a middle
"Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name"

by BigBad Joe on Apr 12, 2011 3:12 PM CDT reply actions  

My kind of draft too...

Football is won and lost in the trenches

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Apr 12, 2011 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would love to have Peterson, but Jerry needs to address the OL.

If not in the 1st then in the 2nd, 3rd, FA and so on.

Lock n Load

by DIRE WOLF on Apr 12, 2011 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Very strange mock drafts

No way Jerry doesn’t address the O-line after bringing in more 1st round graded O-linemen than at any other time as Cowboys GM.

The Ohio State Buckeyes are your Sugar Bowl champions... and for the 7th year in a row Michigan still sucks.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Apr 12, 2011 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think one feasible scenario could...

be that Jerry is telegraphing OT, and Smith in particular, like nobody’s business in case someone like Dan Snyder glitches out and actually trades up to get ahead of Dallas.

That would lead to T. Smith being selected in the top 8 and, in a best case scenario, pushing Peterson to Dallas or another elite Top 8 player falling to Dallas in the worst case.

It’s an outside chance but it costs Jerry nothing to telegraph it, hope for the best, and simply draft Smith or trade down if it doesn’t.

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Apr 12, 2011 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol, yeah prbly

but it makes sense to me and seems like something that would fit Jerry’s style given his business acumen and all

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Apr 13, 2011 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Any one would love to have Peterson

He’ll easily become the defensive rookie of the year, since he’ll be spending more time on the field than any other rookie because Tony will get killed ending up on IR with no OL to protect him.

by pfloyd1 on Apr 12, 2011 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Peterson would get the “potential” people and he would get " the lets get a football player" people

by Jonathan Stern on Apr 12, 2011 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Plus, I like just about every other player in there. Akeem Dent is a very underrated guy. I like Black a lot. Phil Taylor would give us another big ugly on the D-line. Kendall Hunter may be a little early for the Cowboys, but I like him a lot. Just overall, I like the individual players in that draft.

If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Apr 12, 2011 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Akeem Dent

will be one of the best inside linebackers in this draft
he will be a late round pick too

by Archie Barberio on Apr 12, 2011 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Peterson

There just ain’t no chance, is there?

And this correlates directly with the final TD the team scored, with their third-string QB, in a meaningless game, that itself was a beatdown to watch.

Do I have that right?

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Apr 12, 2011 3:30 PM CDT reply actions  

We would be pick #6 if we had lost that abortion of a game

As I’ve said before, if Patrick Peterson or Von Miller are taken in picks 6-7-8 I will never forgive Steve McGee.

The Ohio State Buckeyes are your Sugar Bowl champions... and for the 7th year in a row Michigan still sucks.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Apr 12, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah...

There’s blindly competitive and then there’s intelligently competitive I guess.

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Apr 12, 2011 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

If it was at least a good game

Then I’d feel good. Hey, look what we’ve got in our 3rd string QB! Maybe we have something here. Instead, I don’t even think McGee got over 200 yards! He was bad on everything but the last drive. And this was with our starting O-line and receivers against backups. That was the easiest regular-season NFL game he’ll ever play and he still sucked.

Yet managed to still lose us 3 draft spots. Man, I’m getting frustrated all over again! haha

The Ohio State Buckeyes are your Sugar Bowl champions... and for the 7th year in a row Michigan still sucks.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Apr 12, 2011 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Could some please explain this about Tyron Smith to me...

1. If he is such a great prospect and worthy of a top ten pick, why wasn’t he playing left tackle at USC?

2. Why the sudden move up the draft boards?

This bothers me.

by honkytonkbaseball on Apr 12, 2011 3:36 PM CDT reply actions  

Mainly because USC is a recruiting factory.

It’s not like Smith doesn’t have the pedigree – he was considered by many the top OT recruit coming out of high school in 2008, but when he got to USC in the fall of 2008, the starter at LT was Charles Brown, a 3-year player who was himself a highly-regarded OT recruit and who had previously backed up Sam Baker (who was also a top OT recruit coming out of high school and was drafted by the Falcons in the first round in 2008). Brown played well in 2008, and won the Morris Trophy as the best OLineman in the Pac-10 in 2009, and was drafted in the 2nd round last year.

Smith served as Brown’s backup at LT as a freshman in 2008, and then was moved to RT as a sophomore because they wanted to get their best 5 OL on the field. He started at RT his sophomore season and junior season. He could have moved back to LT as a junior, but USC had just brought in Matt Kalil, another #1 OT coming out of high school, and again, they wanted their 5 best OL on the field. (And Kalil is probably the #1 LT in next year’s draft.) But Smith did win the Morris Trophy for best OL in the Pac-10 over Kalil, which says something.

As for the why the sudden move up the boards, that really depends on which board you are talking about. Some people have touted Smith for a long time, but others didn’t think he was going to come out this year (most people had him pegged for next year, when some said he would have been a top-5 pick). The one knock on him was his weight, since he was “only” 285, but the kid is only 20. That knock has now been eliminated since he has weighed in at 300 at the Combine.

by DannyWhite on Apr 12, 2011 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Thanks

It makes a little more sense now. I haven’t heard anything about Kalil, but I still have a hard time projecting someone to LT in the NFL if they didn’t play there in college, and I don’t want just a RT with a top 10 pick. But if he’s the pick I hope everyone is right.

by honkytonkbaseball on Apr 12, 2011 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great response

I had similar questions but felt his talent was still too good to pass up but this makes me feel even more confident in Smith at #9.

Thanks!

by Anthony_21 on Apr 12, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you, thank you, thank you

Everyone who disses Smith needs to read your comments.

by pfloyd1 on Apr 12, 2011 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

No diss, just concern...

I’ll never knock athletic God given ability. But I rate technique just as high. You aren’t going to athletically beat alot of people in the NFL. Just ask Reggie Bush.

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 12, 2011 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Until I hear someone state his technique is horrible

I am going to say take him at #9

Technique can be taught, athleticism cannot. If he works hard, the sky is the limit.

by RE1D on Apr 12, 2011 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh really?

I guess that Reggie Bush can learn the technique then huh? Or how about Taylor Mays? Or how about Cromartie? All athletic freaks and workout warriors who rely too heavily on their athletic ability more than they should. There are more polished guys further down that can do the same thing.

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 12, 2011 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you are both right

If Smith is motinvated and smart enough, he can pick up the technique. Guys who don’t either lacked the mental capacity (Jason Williams) or the work ethic (Mays?). I’m sure the team is weighing those traits heavily.

Don't believe everything you think.

by dunkman on Apr 12, 2011 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Show me a scouting report that seriously questions Tyron Smith's technique.

And then show me one that doesn’t question Gabe Carimi’s.

Then I will buy what you are selling.

If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Apr 12, 2011 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well said

Even if in your studies you somehow find that Carimi has better ovreall technique with no question marks (or at least less than Smith) you must still consider athletic ability required for certain positions. Everyone ignores Carimi’s biggest flaw. He is solid in many areas of the game and will be a great RT, but he doens’t have the natural pass blocking ability found in elite OTs. He doesn’t have “LT feet.” He is rarely (if ever) graded as the best OT in this draft. There is a reason.
I’d also like to see Carimi’s 3 cone and 20shuttle to finally put those physical limitations to rest…but he keeps avoiding the chance to do so. Very few draft analysts think Carimi can do the same thing (whether now or eventually) that T. Smith can do. Carimi will be a solid RT, but some of us want more than just a RT.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 12, 2011 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Also, just for the record here at BtB, Joe Thomas ran a 4.92 40 at the combine. Athleticism is not a bad thing in a tackle like some would suggest.

If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Apr 13, 2011 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here ya go Creasy.

Smith from nfldraftscout.com:

Pass blocking: His best trait. Flashes very good initial quickness and gains good depth with his initial kick-slide. Plays on the balls of his feet with good forward and lateral balance. Shuffles his feet laterally to mirror the defender. Has the long arms and strong hands to lock onto the defender. Loses focus and relies too much on his agility to remain in front of the pass rusher. Becomes susceptible to swim moves when he doesn’t use his hands aggressively. Has the agility to handle converting to the left side.

Carimi from nfldraftscout.com:

Pass blocking: Has the elite agility and nimble feet to protect the quarterback’s blindside. Very difficult to turn the corner against because of his lateral movement and solid footwork. Also protects the inside lane well. Delivers a strong hand punch capable of knocking back an opponent, and is able to recoil and extend again. Uses his length to block his man with one hand and knock an edge blitzer off his path with the other. Quick to cut on bubble screens and reverses, though he could get more of his man’s legs to be truly effective. Bends at the waist while engaged; usually holds on to prevent secondary rush but will also end up on the ground too often.

Wars are won in the trenches and we need some new big uglies!

by BigDinLA on Apr 13, 2011 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here are a few more for Carimi

Wes Bunting:

Struggles to consistently keep his base down and footwork compact on his kick-slide and can be bullied at the point at times because of his overextended footwork. Now, is a very patient puncher and does a nice job delivering a compact, strong jolt into contact. But too often explosive defensive ends are able to reach the corner on his kick-slide, forcing him to quickly open up his hips and lunge into his target in an effort to push them past the play.
Impression: Isn’t a guy who I would trust on the left side at this stage in the NFL, but he can win for you in the run game and looks more like a very solid right tackle prospect to me.

Draftbreakdown:

Where Carimi begins to struggle is when matched up against speed. His footwork gets short and choppy and the depth on his initial move off the snap is inconsistent, forcing him out of position and lunging at the edge rusher. Carimi does possess quick, powerful hands and once engaged with a blocker in pass protection he does not let go, however he will need to improve his anchor strength at the next level. Some question his agility, hence the calls for a move to right tackle, but I believe he is agile enough to play on the left side effectively.

No here’s is the most realistic (and optomistic) Carimi quote. It comes from Mayock interview.

Carimi’s a guy that’s got less talent than either of them. [Castonzo and Solder] But he’s so well coached. He kicked inside the guard. He didn’t miss a beat. He played right tackle. I think he’s the kind of guy you draft late in the first round. You try him at left tackle, and if he can’t handle the speed out there, you’ve got an all pro right tackle.
But this kid’s well coached, tough and smart. Wouldn’t surprise me if he could handle the left side.

Only NFLdraftscout seems to think he is perfect and has the quick feet needed for a LT. Most analysts think it will be difficult for him. There is a reason no one I have seen has called him the best OT in the draft. You must realize we are not saying Carimi is not a good prospect. I think he is the 3rd best int he draft. However, to say he is better or as good as T. Smith in everything (or that there is no difference) is really not accepting all information available.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 13, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am not saying Carimi IS the best OT in the draft, but I think he is in the mix.

To downgrade him because of perceived lack of athleticism is to me a mistake. He reminds me a lot of a young Jon Runyan. I just like the fact that he unlike, Smith, is a proven and known commodity. Now that does not mean I think he is worth the #9 pick either. Personally I do not think any of the OT’s are top 10 picks and is why I have been on the trade back wagon for a long time now.

Wars are won in the trenches and we need some new big uglies!

by BigDinLA on Apr 13, 2011 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

By the way...

you forgot to bold this little bit about Carimi to show there are always questions about every prospect’s technique, including Carimi’s…even in nfldraftscout’s reoprt

Quick to cut on bubble screens and reverses, though he could get more of his man’s legs to be truly effective. Bends at the waist while engaged; usually holds on to prevent secondary rush but will also end up on the ground too often.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 13, 2011 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

What you fail to realise is that he can be coached up...

Also, your technique can compensate for your speed. It happens all the time. What do you think you use when your athletics fail you. Now compared to T. Smith, yes Carimi isn’t nearly as athletic, but that doesn’t mean that he can’t be just as effective. For example, who is more athletic, Gates or Witten? In a flat out foot race, Gates would win, and he could out jump and out run Jason Witten on routes? But where Jason Witten lacks in athletics HE MAKES UP FOR IN TECHNIQUE. That could very well be the difference between Carimi and T. Smith.

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 13, 2011 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree for many positions

Witten’s lack in speed can be compensated for with his excellent route running, reading defenses, and knowing how to use angles. For a LT and pass protection, your technique is obviously vital, but if you aren’t fast enough to shadow a player all the technique in the world won’t get you well placed and balanced and in the right spot.
But take it a step further, technique can be taught and more easily improved than athletic ability. So if you have two players that are similar in their level of technique (or even if you assume Carimi’s is better) but they are not equal in physical ability, which will become the better player with NFL coaching? It is the reason that Carimi is a lower tier in both Brandts’ and NRock’s tier rankings and other boards. He will always have some physical limitations that dictate a lower ceiling than someone like T. Smith.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 13, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

True...

I agree on the physical limitations. And you make sense about the quick feet. But I have a hard time seeing T. Smiths technique against elite talent. It’s easy for me to dominate weaker opponents and establish good technique when not challenged. That is why I have to give Carimi a pass on the some of the struggling. He went up against better opponents. Of course he is going to struggle more… Of course there are going to be games that aren’t pretty… But he did what it took to accomplish his job. Hence why he won the Outlander Trophy. I just struggle internally about T. Smith is because he displays all the things we look for, but in we won’t know how he will fair up against more elite talent, especially in the NFC East.

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 13, 2011 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

That knife cuts both ways though

Carimi faced better college talent, but he will still face better competition in the NFL, even as a RT. So while he managed to do his job while off balance in pass protection, he won’t be able to get away with it as often in the NFL. He also won’t be able to run block twice as often as pass block (like he did in college) so there will be far more situations where he may fail.
Again, I wouldn’t hate the pick if we trade down to the twenties and are adequetly compensated. I think Carimi will end up being a stud RT. But I would still worry about our backup and future at LT because I don’t think Carimi would be the answer. My prefered outcome is either Smith or Castonzo because I do not think Carimi is “the same” as them.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 13, 2011 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Before we worry about LT depth, how about we worry about RT starter..

Who knows, after a year, Carimi could be just as able to handle the spot after a year of coaching from Hock….

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 13, 2011 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I always worry about LT depth

I think that and QB are two of the most important positions which are most difficult to fill (few can be great at those positions compared to others). And since I think Smith and Carimi will be equally effective at RT, the one with greater upside for LT (and RT for that matter) is who I would prefer to have.
As for the comment below, ignoring the exxageration in the difference between harvard and Ranken Tech, you need to also remember the type of offenses. Smith played in a more NFL type offense while Carimi played in one that showcased his strengths (run blocking) and minimized his exposure to his weakness – pass blocking. I think that is just as important as opponents.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 13, 2011 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I do understand why you and others don't agree with me

Not saying you are wrong to view things they way you do, just explaining why I don’t. I hope it is understood that I like these debates and am not trying to convince you to change your mind, just explaining my reasoning.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 13, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kebearer...

I have the utmost respect for your opinions. They are well thought out and have logic. Even though we might not agree, that doesn’t mean that I don’t get what your saying. We just have philisophical differences on who we think would work. Overall, like I said, if we do get T.Smith, I will embrace him with open arms. Once he is a Cowboy, as far as Im concerned he will have my full faith and support. I took an oath as a Cowboys fan to never root for the downfall of a cowboys player to prove my point.

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 13, 2011 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Further more...

I know with Carimi based on who he went up against, he will probably see again in the NFL. That is why I put less on times and workout stats, and more about what did you play. If a Harvard grad graduated with a 2.5, would you hold him to a lower standard than your average Joe who went to (Ranken Technical Institute) for plumbing and got a 4.0?

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 13, 2011 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

And by the way, I am not failing to realize it...

I am depending on it. T. Smith’s upside is all based on improving his technique through NFL coaching and continuing to improve his strength and weight (though he has already taken huge steps). The knock on Smith vs. Carimi is that Carimi has better technique. So who will benefit most? Like everyone says, he already has the physical gifts.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 13, 2011 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Still Keg you have to admit that the NFL grave yard is littered with guys with tons of potential and athletic ability.

It is usually the hard nosed technicians that pan out. That does not mean that Smith will not work hard enough to become great, but I just feel that Carimi is pretty close to a sure bet, while Smith is a huge boom or bust. As always IMO!

Wars are won in the trenches and we need some new big uglies!

by BigDinLA on Apr 13, 2011 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

The one on Smith you bolded reminds me of comments about Peterson.

I have seen scouting reports that say he relys on his athletic ability and gets impatient, leading to lapses in technique.

by Rena on Apr 13, 2011 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right but in this instance it assumes

that T. Smith is a “workout warrior” and “athletic freak”.

Maybe you’re right there too, time will tell. But analysts, who are paid in accordance with their popularity which is directly proportional to their long term success rate (usually), say his technique is outstanding…especially for 20 years old.

Additionally, while workout warriors do tend to shoot up draft boards based solely on their Combine and Pro Day results, they do not normally crash into the Top 10. NFL teams spend a lot of money on their own fully outfitted scouting departments and spend countless hours breaking down film on every potential prospect for all 7 rounds PLUS expected UDFA’s. I can’t even begin to imagine the amount of scrutiny the Dallas Cowboys organization has poured into the candidates for the #9 overall draft pick.

So while no one has a crystal ball and thus, you may have correctly insinuated that Tyron Smith is a “workout warrior” and “athletic freak” who is devoid of technique that Gabe Carimi “more polished guys” possess…

I think the amount of circumstantial evidence indicates the opposite. Tyron Smith is the fastest and most athletic OT in this draft, bar none, AND has tremendous upside and uncanny technique…especially for an underclassman.

At the end of the day anyone can be right and anyone can be wrong…anyone remember Blair Thomas?…but I think there’s an awful lot of professional opinion claiming much more of T. Smith than you seem willing to give him credit for.

Anyway you slice it though, I think we have a heck of a draft coming to us fellas!

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Apr 12, 2011 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well said

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 12, 2011 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

What I am saying is that at 20 years old at RT, how much technique can you learn when you aren't in the fire?

Again, one more year in school could be the difference and would make me much more comfortable being sold on him. I trust Carimi because I know what he has been up against and how he faired. But I’m kinda old school when I say a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 13, 2011 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I think the answer to that question comes in

A) The overwhelming amount of scouting reports and analysts’ shared opinions.

We have a lot of analysis coming from NFL teams’ expressed interest as well as a LOT of analysts saying the same things.

B) His expected draft position.

This is an indirect indicator of what the Pro ball clubs expect T. Smith to be.

The main point of contention I have seen from you (if I have it right) is in the areas of Technique and Quality of Competition.

I think Carimi has EVERYONE trumped in quality of competition due to the amount of potential 1st rders he has beaten in head to head competition as you had mentioned in another post. But PAC-10 isn’t so far off the mark that you can’t get a pretty good read on a guy from that conference.

In the realm of Technique, I think you’re in an area of perception as opposed to factual. That is the place where I have tried to illustrate an awful lot of people, from pro analysts to pro teams, have said the opposite…that Smith has exceptional technique.

Again, no one has a crystal ball…but it seems to me that, in this area at least, what is making you nervous would be the equivalent of worrying if a Boeing 747 has enough airlift in it’s wings to get off the ground…when all the technicians and engineers have stated they believe it does. In other words, it’s a self made worry…few people in the wider scheme of things seem to share that concern and even fewer of the ones who are actually paid to make that kind of analysis.

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Apr 13, 2011 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Reggie Bush doesn’t have the power to be an everydown back, That is what people missed. Taylor Mays is a staight line player. If anything he is not as athletic as advertised.

by Jonathan Stern on Apr 13, 2011 5:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Very well stated

Just don’t think it will be the last time you will have to say that or address similar concerns. MOst of the people here have come around to drafting an OT, but there is still some debate as to who it should/will be.

by RE1D on Apr 12, 2011 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm all for drafting a OT in the first round

It is a need and there are players that can fill that need. Some that can do it now, some that can do it later. I will never compromise and pick a guy because I feel that someone else is going to take him and it’s not his worth. I wouldn’t take Carimi at the #9th pick because he isn’t worth it. I believe in getting value. As do we… It’s taking it at the price that leads to the cabage patch situation, or the tickle me elmo, or the IPAD 2, or the Playstation 3. Driving up the value because we need this guy. No offense but if the guy 6 spots below can do the same job as the guy 6 spots above, then you bet your right I’m trading down and getting the value, and the additional pick.

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 12, 2011 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

How can you be so sure that the next guy

6 spots below can do the same job. The only time you can absolutely be sure you’re getting value is if you trade down get the guy you originally wanted plus extra picks. We don’t know prospectively who’s a greater value Smith. Carimi, Watt, Castonzo, Amukamara, etc., until retrospectively we evaluate them after they’ve played for a number of years. I’ll bet Green Bay is sure happy they drafted Rogers rather than Alex Smith. Look at how far Rogers dropped in the1st round. Everyone who bypassed him wishes in retrospect that they had taken him. Shawn Merriman made the pro bowl his first and D Ware didn’t. Aren’t we all glad we chose Ware over Merriman. Making the statement that a player hasn’t the value at a certain position in the draft only has merit if you can get the same player later in the draft. If the Raiders had used their 1st round pick on Bruce Campbell last year because Al Davis was enamoured with his workouts, that would qualify as poor value because they got anyway him in the 4th.

So, if we value Smith as a future starter for the next 10 years and think he will do the job better than the other potential draftees, then pick him, we may be wrong, but he is not a reach at #9.

by pfloyd1 on Apr 12, 2011 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Some things to consider
And it’s always better to be on the front end of a run than chasing it from behind.
If the pick is Smith, it’s a good one. It was a surprise when he entered the draft because many considered him to be a top five pick in the 2012 draft. So to get him a year early would be a shrewd move.
The Cowboys need to upgrade their aging offensive line and Smith clearly has the highest ceiling of any prospect in this class.

Carimi may do just as good a job at RT day 1 or even the entire rookie season, but they are not the same player, and they don’t each translate as well to LT (swing tackle) and don’t have the same level ceiling.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 12, 2011 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is based on pure specualtion.

1 of these players was a 2 year starter at LT and voted best OL in the nation. He competed against top flight DE’s and dominated, but I guess it is better to take the potential than the proof.

You kill me Keg with your definitive statements on Smith and Carimi. I will take the hard nosed, nasty technician over your “athletic” player all day long.

Wars are won in the trenches and we need some new big uglies!

by BigDinLA on Apr 13, 2011 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Assumptions

You are assuming Smith isn’t a technician, though most draft analysts rave about his technique (especially considering his age and being only a junior). He is not just athletic. Personally, I think athletic ability is very important for a LT and if you can’t keep up physcially with speed rushers, even the best technique won’t save you. Why hasn’t Carimi done the 3cone and 20shuttle at the combine or Pro Day? Why not prove he has the quick feet premier pass blockers in the NFL require?

Not sure what definitive statements I made above, just reiterating what draft analysts are saying. Have you found anyone that considers Carimi the best OT in the draft? I haven’t. There is a reason. While I’ll take a nasty technician in many positions on the field, I will also happily take the solid young guy with tons of upside in hopes of finding that rare elite LT prospect.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 13, 2011 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Credentials.... Sorry

It’s hard to make a point if you can’t spell right.

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 13, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just because he has great upside

it is not the ONLY reason. Yes, many are amazed by his upside potential and thus rank him around the 10 spot. However, you will also see that people rave about his technique and game film. Is there a risk he won’t ever reach his ceiling, yes. Do I think there is a big risk of him being a bust? No. Just make sure you keep an open mind and realize this isn’t a guy who is ranked purely because of his potential ceiling, he certainly has credentials to go along with it as well.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 13, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Very well said

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 12, 2011 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I asked the same question on another board, but what the heck,

is there any scenario( besides outright trade) in which Doug Free plays for another team next season (2011)? Could another team match his tender or something like that, or the court renders him UFA?

by dcfanz on Apr 12, 2011 3:40 PM CDT reply actions  

yes

he could become an UFA under a new CBA. I believe(but don’t hold me to it) that we gave him the highest tender for a RFA if that’s what he ends up being. (1st and 3rd round with a option to match) But we took a pretty big gamble by not franchising him.

by honkytonkbaseball on Apr 12, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

thanks, the reason I was asking was that

everybody just assumes he plays for the Cowboys in 2011, but given the possibility of him leaving, it might be even more urgent to draft OL early and often this year.

by dcfanz on Apr 12, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Free will be a UDFA

But Jerry has shown that he’s willing to pay virtually any price to keep his guys. Jerry’s problem isn’t underspending and letting great talent go away – it’s quite the opposite.

The Ohio State Buckeyes are your Sugar Bowl champions... and for the 7th year in a row Michigan still sucks.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Apr 12, 2011 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

not only that, he is the only bright star on the whole line, if he leaves

for whatever reason that might be, TR will be asking for a trade:)

by dcfanz on Apr 12, 2011 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Terry

will hunt you down like a dog and kill you. Just like that.

Don't believe everything you think.

by dunkman on Apr 12, 2011 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nobody knows for sure until the new CBA is signed, but here a couple of scenarios

1. The owners institute last years rules, and Free will be a restricted free agent – we will get a 1st and third round pick, or the ability to match any offer that he recieves (if it doesn’t contain a “poison pill” provision such as guaranteed money for playing more than 3 games per year in Texas)
2. The new CBA eliminates restricted free agency, but still gives teams the chance to use a franchise tag while they work on a long term deal (the Cowboys would likely have to pay him the average of the top five LT in the game- even if we end up moving him to RT because he played LT last year).
3. No tags are allowed and Free becomes a free-agent. Jerry will try to sign him to a market value contract, but Free will be free to shop his services to another team. This is where it could get tricky if the Cowboys draft a “LT prospect” versus a “RT prospect” because Free would most likely choose to play elsewhere if he thinks he will be moved to RT in the future because LT make a lot more money than RT.
4. The players win their court case and there are no restrictions on player movement, no minimum or maximum salary, no 2012 draft, and any player not currently under contract is free to sign with any team for however much (or however little) the team is willing to pay them.

by Yoko Romo on Apr 12, 2011 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rackley in the 5th huh? Interesting.

Gotta vote draftek again though.

Although Peterson and Taylor is a decent haul.

Problem is, only draftek’s has any chance of actually happening.

by fivetwos on Apr 12, 2011 3:48 PM CDT reply actions  

Ya maybe your Right we should take the 4th best DL or the 3rd best CB that would help the team more

Only time will tell now won’t it; If we’re lucky maybe we’ll be in posotion to get Andrew Luck next year

by bad knees on Apr 12, 2011 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really?

My concearn is that some OT needy team swaps with the TIitans. What if Amukamara, Bowers, Jordan and Watt are available – with no trade down offers?

To be honest, I would be happy with any of them, but OT becomes an even bigger need in the remaining rounds.

by birdness on Apr 12, 2011 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

You really hate him, don't you

It is hard to tell a person’s tone, when they write, but yours jumps off the page.

Cleveland wouldn’t take him, because they drafted Joe Thomas a couple years ago. Yes they could use another OL, but I don’t think you’ll see them take Smith that high. Not because he isn’t good or “worthy” but because they have enough problems as it is.

by RE1D on Apr 12, 2011 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not at all...think he's a really good prospect

but certainly not top ten worthy, thats all. To me, Smith, Castonzo and Carimi are all the same, no real differences among any of them.

It just seems that way because so many fans on this site are absolutely in love with him and thus overrate him a lot.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 13, 2011 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

The only reason why so many on here are in love with him

is because so many Mocks have him going to us at #9. Too bad Jerry wont have that same loving feeling. Alot of fans, especially on here are going to be disappointed.

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 13, 2011 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was on the Smith bandwagon while all the mocks still had us taking Prince at #9.

I have said it before, but I’ll say it again.
I honestly do not care who we take to help fix our OL. I just want to draft someone early (and hopefully often) in the first few rounds to help inject some youth and talent into our Offensive Big Uglies. As long as JG is happy with whomever we pick, I will be happy. It is an area of our team that must be addressed this year.

Any further prolongment of the inevitable will only hurt us in the upcoming years.

by RE1D on Apr 13, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well said

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 13, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Considering Smith is less NFL ready than the others apparently..

I would look at drafting a RT in the second round. Its a very real possibilty players like Colombo, Davis will be on this team and maybe starfting again if this lockout continues and there is no FA. Even if Smith is drafted and espically the longer this lockout contiunes he will not start this season. We would be better off getting a 2nd round OT that needs some work, not alot and get him ready for 2012. I would have no problem taking Smith, but not at #9.

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 13, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm on the Smith bandwagon now...

NOT because I don’t think trading down a short distance and picking up another pick wouldn’t be better, it would be. It is simply because I don’t know if I trust Jerrah not to screw it up. Would be happier with something safe (I know, I know) than getting cute and it biting us. We’ve seen the picks available based on past drafts where we could have had two great players. What hasn’t been shown is that we could have easily ended up with two stinkers as well. Given our past draft history, we would’ve ended up with the stinkers. Now if Red is truly in charge, I’m ready to see what would happen with an extra pick.

by shaneshot on Apr 12, 2011 4:08 PM CDT reply actions  

If they want Smith

take him at 9, please. Don’t gamble that he’ll be there later. Just get the guy, and go.

by Dub_TC on Apr 12, 2011 4:15 PM CDT reply actions  

+1

Administrator of www.startaterriblerumoraboutpatrickpetersonsoheslidesto#9.com

by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Apr 12, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

AJ Green or Julio Jones?

I mean I get it about QB’s, but I think one of those guys goes before 10.

by liquidblake on Apr 12, 2011 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Both guys are great WRs

I am not going to put them up there with the Calvin or Andre Johnsons of the world, but there could be far worse picks than taking either one of those guys.

by RE1D on Apr 12, 2011 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you lined up AJ Green, Julio Jones, and Dez Bryant

And just put on their college game tape and combine numbers. Not including Dez’s pro work, just college. If you made me scout them as college athletes I very well might rank Dez 3rd.

AJ Green and Julio Jones are really really good.

The Ohio State Buckeyes are your Sugar Bowl champions... and for the 7th year in a row Michigan still sucks.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Apr 12, 2011 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nah.

Based off college tape I would definitely go AJ Green and Dez Bryant are pretty close to a tie and Julio Jones is third. I have never bought into Julio Jones as an elite WR at the next level. His natural catching ability and body control is not good compared to AJ Green and Dez Bryant. And when all three are above average athletes, that on-the-field ability is what separates them.

If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Apr 12, 2011 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I LOOOOVE DEZ!

I love the guy, he was sensational as a rookie!

All I’m saying is, AJ Green and Julio Jones are really really good. At least one of them if not both will be multiple pro-bowlers.

The Ohio State Buckeyes are your Sugar Bowl champions... and for the 7th year in a row Michigan still sucks.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Apr 12, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Id take Dez

I think he was the best WR to come out in a long time
we got a steal

by Archie Barberio on Apr 12, 2011 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

No trust me, I don't take it as an affront to Dez.

I think if they had come out in the same year, my preference would have actually probably leaned slightly towards AJ Green. But keep in my mind that I think he is phenomenal and probably the best WR to come out since Megatron.

My only real point was that I think Julio Jones is way overrated.

If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Apr 13, 2011 12:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

How many years have you been a scout?

Too many QB needy teams in front of us. Locker could have been #1 overall last year. Newton is a BCS champion and physical freak but Glabbert considered the most likely to go first.

Green is the best WR prospect since Megatron, and Julio Jones is even more physically gifted – for me he looks like the next TO. One should go before we pick, the Redskins may get the other.

Still if you’re right and Smith and Castonzo are both gone, then there should be a defensive beast within trade up range, maybe even at #9

by birdness on Apr 12, 2011 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Trade Up?

If the Top 2 OTs are off the board before #9, we won’t have to trade up, there will be somebody great falling into our lap.

Locker would not have been #1, unless Bradford decided not to go to the NFL. Bradford was the clear cut #1 QB in the Draft, period. And he proved it this year. No QB is worthy of a Top 10 selection this year, but that doesn’t mean teams won’t try and force the issue and draft one anyways.

by RE1D on Apr 12, 2011 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

If we trade down

you’re right, there’s a chance that both Smith and Castonzo will be gone, but at least 1, possibly both, Green and Jones, will go in the top 10. I agree that the QBs are weak for top 10 picks, but again someone who desparately needs a QB will reach for one. If we stand pat and pick at #9 we should easily land one of the OTs.

by pfloyd1 on Apr 12, 2011 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

How is NFL Draftblitz not just rolling everyone?

Patrick Peterson and Phil Taylor? YES F***ING PLEASE!!!! If that happens I will volunteer to wipe Jerry’s ass everyday until the season starts. You get a CB and basically fix the DE problem in the first two picks.

by Omar Little on Apr 12, 2011 4:25 PM CDT reply actions  

I'd rather have about 4 players before Smith

that will be available at 9. Prince, Jordan, Watt and Castonzo.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 12, 2011 4:30 PM CDT reply actions  

I wish Jerry could get two from that list

I like those guys (maybe not better than Smith) along with Carimi. Getting one in a trade down would be outstanding.

by birdness on Apr 12, 2011 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll take boring over

that Blood-Pressure Fest of 2009. My doctor prescribed “No more drafts like that Dunkman!!!! And eat your fiber.”

Don't believe everything you think.

by dunkman on Apr 12, 2011 4:30 PM CDT reply actions  

That draft led to...

The Great Liver Destruction of 2010.

I have noticed a new resurgence in Cowboy hating in 2007, which can only mean one thing- We're back.

by nspirals on Apr 12, 2011 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's a great name for a heavy metal music festival

The Ohio State Buckeyes are your Sugar Bowl champions... and for the 7th year in a row Michigan still sucks.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Apr 12, 2011 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Draftblitz is crazy

If that plays out that way with Peterson and Taylor, and some nice late round picks (including Cracks pet Black), its the winner hands down. I believe in building the Oline thru the draft, but in this case I would be a proponent of picking up some more FA Oline…

However, there <.01% chance of that draft actually happening. Maybe OCC should disqual them for using PED’s…

by TheCowboyWay on Apr 12, 2011 4:34 PM CDT reply actions  

Exactly

I mean, yeah the O-Line needs work but outside of a few players there isn’t a whole lot of OL talent in this year’s draft. There’s a few interesting players, but no one that makes you drool. Sure, I like Rodney Hudson, Ben Ijalana, and Tyron Smith…but they’re not prospects like Patrick Peterson or Phil Taylor. Can you imagine a defense where Taylor’s plugging up the middle and you have Ratliff and Spencer on the strongside? Not to mention Peterson in the secondary? Damn, my pants are getting tight just thinking about that.

by Omar Little on Apr 12, 2011 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Draft Tek draft please

Smith/Moffitt immediately strengthen offensive line
Heyward is huge get in second round
Brown/Jarrett will be for the secondary
White/Rowe for linebacker depth

every major need is met. great draft

Who are you?!
I'm Kick Ass!

by TexasGarcia37 on Apr 12, 2011 5:29 PM CDT reply actions  

+1

Given no trade down, this is a freaking great draft. I don’t know much about Jarrett or Brown…but Smith/Moffitt is incredible. Heyward would be a major improvement on our interior d line… love it.

I have noticed a new resurgence in Cowboy hating in 2007, which can only mean one thing- We're back.

by nspirals on Apr 12, 2011 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I still would rather have Carimi or Sherrod and a 3rd round pick.

Nothing complex about trading down. Not like 2009 where I’ll trade you my 3rd for 6 7th round picks. We are just asking for a 6 spot trade down, and get someone to address the same position and get a 3rd rounder. How complex is that? I don’t think Smith is worth it this year. Maybe next year, but next year is next year. What will he be this year until this year is next year? That is the question.

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 12, 2011 6:05 PM CDT reply actions  

I like this argument more personally...

This is a valid argument to me…

1) It doesn’t try to belittle Smith’s potential as a prospect that flies in the face of the overwhelming majority of professionals.

2) It doesn’t try to equate Carimi to Smith as overall players…simply as RT prospects (where I think they are on much more equal ground as prospects) (and I believe you have stated before you are only looking at RT, that you see no need for LT)

Those were the areas that left debatable questions.

3) The Trade Down option is a legitimate argument. I could argue all day that Tyron Smith is the best rated overall OT in this draft by the closest thing to an NFL consensus you can get practically. What I can’t argue is whether Gabe Carimi + Additional 2nd rd. pick is inferior to Tyron Smith at #9.

Personally, I’d like Carimi plus an xtra 2nd rder that we can parlay into a 2nd top level OL but that’s a lot of ifs in that scenario. Which is exactly why I’m content to not mess around and take Smith at 9 plain and simple.

This is also why I thinkwe fans will get something to cheer about…we have a lot of options in this draft.

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Apr 12, 2011 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

And don't you find it strange that majority of the draft people are talking about his upside?

Instead of who he faced? Or how polished he is? Or how mature he is? Or that he can handle the pressure that the NFL has right now? They talk about how much weight he put on, but never how he played at the weight? Why did he wait until this off season to add the weight? Why didn’t he do it during the season? Just because you gain the weight, how are you going to react to it? Just ask Felix Jones about gaining weight and playing with it…

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 12, 2011 6:09 PM CDT reply actions  

I am starting to have my doubts about Smith now

His numbers just astound me. But hard as I try, I just don’t see Left Tackle when I see him on Youtube. And I’ve got this little feeling that says that he is going to be a bust in the mold of another USC alum, Winston Justice.

Not to mention that, as evidenced by the very post I reply to, everyone and their mom is now picking him for Dallas. Doesn’t that make you a little queasy? It’s like on the pregame show when every analyst picks the Cowboys running away, and the game turns out to be anything but — just a little concern about crowd think.

But you know who does jump out at me — Robert Quinn. This is the guy that I loved at the beginning of draft season. And I’m really not hearing too much about it, but it’s very likely that he will be available at #9.

So this year, and no other, I’m hoping the Cowboys continue to be tough on O line and draft the next great pass-rusher to pair with Ware.

Smiles ahead

by accidental innuendo on Apr 12, 2011 6:46 PM CDT reply actions  

Tyron

ive been pushing this pick for a while, imagine getting a blue chip talent on our OL
I cant wait

by Archie Barberio on Apr 12, 2011 6:51 PM CDT reply actions  

The way we hear it, two potential top-15 picks could be significantly affected by results from the Combine re-check. According to multiple sources, Clemson DE Da’Quan Bowers and USC OLT Tyron Smith both have received very concerning, low grades after having what was said to be meniscus surgery on their right knees following the season. Bowers has been very slow to recover from January surgery because he already had what three team doctors deemed to be microfracture surgery, and his knee condition is considered to be degenerative.

“He should get better with added strength,” one NFL executive said. “But he will have future problems because the damage is too bad.”

“He’s talented,” said another top executive, “but that’s a lot of risk to take. You might not get much in Year One and how long is he going to last? Our doctors said he would be lucky to play out his rookie contract. He’s a very humble kid. You hope he could overcome it. But we couldn’t take him where we are picking (in the middle third of the first round). Someone else might. We would discuss it in the second round.”

Smith had surgery on December 17 and had nearly an extra month to recover. He didn’t work out at the Combine and, despite showing surprisingly well at his pro day, could also be affected by unfavorable medical grades, which every team medical staff evaluates differently.

“We’ve had (Smith) at the bottom of the first all along,” said an NFL executive. “The media has pushed him up. No one questions the traits. But there is a miss factor. Remember everyone was surprised when Winston Justice slid. We had him (graded) in the fourth round. The medical could push (Smith) out of the first, no question. I would love for him to go in the top 10, but I’d be shocked if he came close.”

Dr. Thomas Carter, who performed the surgery on Smith, told PFW that the knee is sound: “(Smith) has no chondral defects. He doesn’t need to have a more aggressive procedure done now, not at this time. … It would seem that in his efforts to further expedite his recovery, it looks like (Smith) pushed himself a little too hard.”

Carter conceded that different team doctors could interpret the same knee different ways.

by fivetwos on Apr 12, 2011 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol

I mean you can push this story all you want, its a cleanup procedure
if it wasnt good, he wouldnt be running 4.9 40’s
Bowers has a serious knee condition on the other hand that could require MICROFRACTURE surgery which is bad news for him

by Archie Barberio on Apr 12, 2011 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

4.9 – 40 HAHAHA
And yeah, it’s Bowers that people are worried about

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 12, 2011 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

pretty much

Bowers is the one who is questioned in that article not Smith

by Archie Barberio on Apr 12, 2011 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol

I mean Smith didnt run at the combine but did the weights
he did the pro day and ran a 4.9 40 or some insane number
he had cleanup meniscus which every year guys do this, I could see if he had a INJURY or some sort of medical history but it just isnt there
people are looking for problems on Smith and they cant find them
if you dont like the guy, fine move along to the side
he is the next DBrickashaw Ferguson, the kid is the same build and style as Brick was coming out of Virginia and Brick went 5th overall

the only knock I can actually relate to on Smith is his youth
he’s 20 years old so I understand concerns there but were talking about a 2 year starter at RT, another year playing left and right tackle
he might not be great his first season, I expect come growing pains no doubt but he is adequate enough to be a good player his first season and grow
by next year you got a beast in the making

but some of the stuff the non Smith fans are throwing is weak sauce

by Archie Barberio on Apr 12, 2011 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I dought the validity of this story:

Dr, Thomas Carter would be in line not only to loose his licence, but also a Major law suit the would insure that Smith would never have to work for the rest of his life if he revealed confidential medical information like that.

by bad knees on Apr 12, 2011 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ummm, still warrants some digging...

no? I mean, I trust our medical staff, they know more, a lot more, about this situation than anyone on this blog. That means “trade down” guys like me, AND “Tyron Smith for the HOF” folks on here. I will be interested to see if this is smoke or fire.

I have noticed a new resurgence in Cowboy hating in 2007, which can only mean one thing- We're back.

by nspirals on Apr 12, 2011 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Believe me they just scoped his knee,

and removed some loose fragments. There were no chondral defects, meaning no damage to the cartilage or the sub-chondral bone. In other words the cartilage and bone of Smith’s knee checked out ok. I’m sure the Cowboys will do their due diligence and examine the knee, but I’m confident he’ll check out just fine, and if he doesn’t, they won’t draft him.

by pfloyd1 on Apr 12, 2011 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

If that's the case

Then it might cause him to fall to #17 where we could get him even with a trade down – with teams afraid of the uncertainty.

The Ohio State Buckeyes are your Sugar Bowl champions... and for the 7th year in a row Michigan still sucks.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Apr 12, 2011 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm starting to see the Devil part, BED....

That would be great. I just don’t want a repeat of the last 4 years where Dallas can’t seem to help itself on O-line…

Don't believe everything you think.

by dunkman on Apr 12, 2011 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I dont see that happening

there is no concern with his knee or it would be a HUGE story
offensive tackles of his caliber wont last that far
if Dallas gets cute im telling you their gonna shoot themselves again
like its all sunshine and rainbows with this extra 3rd pick until Smith and Carimi are gone and then I will laugh at this franchise again for getting too cute with the draft
if they have him rated high than take the f’n guy at 9

I would trade down for pouncey, that I would advocate because it means Dallas doesnt have a real interest in Tyron at all
if Dallas grades him highly we will know because he will be the pick at 9, if not they will move down and I guarantee they take Pouncey
at least its a start, we get a really good guard, but then we better damn sure grab a RT

by Archie Barberio on Apr 12, 2011 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

you're likely right...

I guess we won’t know for sure for a couple weeks what they think. Dammit.

I have noticed a new resurgence in Cowboy hating in 2007, which can only mean one thing- We're back.

by nspirals on Apr 12, 2011 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

i have no clue

at least last year we had a idea of who we wanted, Dez Earl or Iupati
this year they could trade down trade up take this guy that guy I mean we have no idea whats going to happen and I hate that especially 3 weeks away

by Archie Barberio on Apr 12, 2011 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

We already knew Smith had pushed training to hard on his knee.

It swelled at the combine which was why he didn’t do the workouts then.

by Rena on Apr 13, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Patrick Peterson would be great. If neither Peterson or Von Miller are there then Tyron Smith. Afrter him Amukumura and then Aldon Smith and then Robert Quinn.

One of those six would be fine.

by Jonathan Stern on Apr 12, 2011 9:05 PM CDT reply actions  

I want a great player from this draft. Not solid players that fill needs.

If all the Cowboys get are three or four solid players from this draft then this draft is a failure.

by Jonathan Stern on Apr 13, 2011 5:27 AM CDT reply actions  

Oh please!

Who can say who is going to be great? Peterson may turn out to be an off field night mare that can’t stay out of trouble or Dummer than a box of rock and can’t grasp the defence, or not have the benefit of a decent pass rush and get burned because the QB’s have all day to throw, or tear an ACL in the first game because of lack of training camp and these thing and 100 others could cause him to not be the “Great” player in the NFL that everyone thinks he’ll be.

Again I refer back to Clay Mathews who was drafted at 26, you think if everyone knew he was going to be so good he would have lasted that long?

Getting 1 player who is “Solid” his rookie year is and looks to have a “Solid” future is in itself “Great” for a team and if you can get a “Solid” partime/situational player and or someone who looks like they may only need another year to develope into a “Solid” player at a position then thats great also and iceing on the cake.

by bad knees on Apr 13, 2011 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thats how the Pats draft and look at how successful they've been

They try to get a lot of 2nd and 3rd round picks and they all turn out to be solid players. The only great player the Pats have is Brady but yet they’ve been very successful.

Good formula to follow.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 13, 2011 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

no one really knows what Jerruh is doing come draft day but hopefully its Garrett/Ryan doing the selections.

either way you draw it up this team needs a starting DL & OT in the first 2 rounds. then they have the next few rounds to find an ILB (Matthews), Guard & Safety (prob a SS bc FS looks weak). i wouldn’t sleep on RTs like Carpenter (3rd rd) or the guy from Florida (Gilbert? 3rd rd) bc they might not project to LT’s but they are very high rated RT’s only.
 i can’t see Colombo, Spears, Barber or Sensabaugh coming back next season & the only way Ball sticks around is playing special teams/4th or 5th CB/backup safety.

Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth! Garrett & Ryan working as a team should create a physical environment at Valley Ranch that shows up on gameday.

by DCNation73 on Apr 13, 2011 1:39 PM CDT reply actions  

I can definately see Colombo and Sensabaugh...

I cant see how we would be able to sign two FA safeties. One would be tough enough, but two would be tough and real expensive. Lets hope there is FA or Sensabaugh is just about a lock to be here.

by Boyzfan94 on Apr 13, 2011 4:47 PM CDT reply actions  

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