If we trade back with St Louis ...
by TCBinNYC on Apr 21, 2011 1:10 PM CDT
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PrintWould Tyron Smith and Prince Amukamara be gone?
The only scenario which seems reasonable to me is if Houston takes Amukamara (although I think they will go Defensive front seven) and then Detroit takes Smith directly before Dallas at 14. Again, I don't think that's likely, but certainly possible. But Dallas would still be able to pick up either Castonzo/Carmini/Solder or Watt/Jordan. Those consolation prizes are not bad. And because I wouldn't be upset with any of those players, I wouldn't even mind a move further back.
I heard two bozos on The Fan 105.3 this morning talking about a rumored trade back with St. Louis, and they acted like if we did this none of our targeted players would be there. It's only 5 slots people. And we're assuming the trade up is for Julio Jones, so now it's down to 4 picks between 9 and 14. Washington and Minnesota don't seem to have the same needs as Dallas. I think its possible both players would still be available, but surely one would be.
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Please lets just take a pick at 9.
But Mel Kiper says Smith is moving from 10 to around 17 on his board. So maybe Smith could be ours.
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If both of them slips to 13
we’ll get whichever one Detroit doesn’t take. I think they’ll take Amukamara over Smith, I’ve heard a few Lions fans talking about how there line isn’t as bad as it’s perceived to be.
If Prince, Smith, and Castonzo are available and Detroit went DE, I would be very surprised.
"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry
Who cares what the fans think?
How many games has Stafford missed because he’s been blindsided by multiple D-linemen?
Maybe they should consult Matt about their biggest area of need? :-)
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
- John Wooden (God rest his soul)
I would be very surprised if Jerry didn't trade down
For the exact reasons you are saying. Even if they have Smith ranked higher than any other OT, he’ll want to gamble for extra pciks and convince himself he can get Smith later.
The other wildcard is JJ trading up for a more “splashy” move but I see him getting more resistance from Garrett in that scenario.
"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry
I wouldnt mind it for Peterson
I cant imagine anyone else is worth losing picks over. And I would be scared to trade up more than a few picks. San Francisco at #7 is the likely spot that I think Dallas shoud consider a trade up if Peterson is still there, and that only works if SF doesnt want him and can move back two spots.
Trading #9 and our 3rd rounder (#71) for San Francisco’s #7 and 4th rounder makes sense and fits with the value chart.
wouldnt mind
a move back to 14 or 17 as long as it somehow nets us 3 picks in the 40….. a OT, DE, and a Safety would be nice with those 3 picks ….. what would be even better is if those are the 3 positions we draft with those picks and we resign Spears so Igor the horrible can be cut loose.
one more
you have to remember alot of misinformation is being put out right now and there is always 1 or 2 players who get picked higher than anyone can imagine and 1 or 2 players that fall out of the top 10 that were supposed to be drafted…. Bulaga was in everybodys top 10 last year and went 23/24. I believe Smith will be there at 14 and if not there will be any # of players Dallas would want there.
Why not trade back again
Say there’s nobody appealing at #14. why not jump back into the 20s and net another pick? Then use that first rounder on an RT/DE?
by ThrillRob on Apr 21, 2011 2:47 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
IDK about this thinking: Trade back and hope a player will be there, then trade up and for a player you hope will be there
This kind of thinking is the the root of: 1 in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.
Man
I can’t see trading down unless your targetted player(s) are there when it’s your turn to pick. Otherwise, it’s like a dog chasing his tail.
Look at it this way
If you have a lot of players rated similarly and are targeting a number of positions it’s not a dog chasing it’s own tail at all. If you Love a couple guys, Really Like a handful, Like a dozen, Kinda Like another 30, and have another few dozen you Like Enough to take a shot on then staying put is riskier than trading down.
Love is going to be out of reach. The likelihood of staying put and getting more than one of the first two groups is ZERO! A good draft from here would be 3 guys you Like and Really Like total, and hope you hit on 2 of the last 5. Hopefully an impact guy and 4 contributors, but expectations for only the first 2. Trading down you Guarantee 4 guys you at least Like and maybe two you Really Like. If the scouts have done their job, 3 out of 4 helping this year is extremely realistic and two being impact additions likely.
No Smith at 14 or 17, get down to the 20’s and you come out of the draft expecting instead of hoping for 4 or more contributors to shore up OT, S, DE, G, LB, CB, DT in that approximate order.
You are as strong as your weakest link, and both sides of the ball have more than one. Shore up holes and bolster strengths without reaching for need, increasing your odds by Quality Numbers. We are not talking about adding 5th and 6th round picks, but 2nd & 3rd or even 4th rounders where Jerry has had success.
I'd rather take
T Smith and B Harris, A Williams or C Hayward, than settle for Solder and a bunch of other Jags like Brewster, who we drafted in the 3rd because Unger was gone. JJ is terrible with his picks when trading down. It’s a dog chasing its tail if you’re targetting a guy like Unger and then end up trading down farther and drafting Brewster.
If you trade down make sure that the player(s) you want will be there, otherwise, you’ll end up settling for someone else or trading down again and getting a bunch of Jags.
That was then
It’s not an Unger or trade down again situation in the least. Take T Smith and you may get any of those guys at 40, but then again all could be gone. A good player who will fit a position of need will be there, off the top of my head all these guys would work between 14 and 71:
T Smith, Quinn, Jordan, Watt, Prince, A Smith, Taylor, Carimi, Sherrod, Castonzo, Pouncey, Watkins, Wisniewski, Harris, Williams, Martez Wilson, Wilkerson, Heyward, Taylor, Paea, Liugett, Ayers, Moore, Clayborn (24)
Solder, Cannon, Ellis, Gilbert, Hudson, Ijalana, Dowling, , Curtis Brown, Rackley, Bruce Carter, Burton, Gilchrist, Ballard, Jernigan, Cobb, D Williams, Q Carter, D McDaniel, Powe, House, Hankerson, Sheppard, Sturdivant, Foster, Carpenter (26)
50 guys with a good to excellent chance to be better than what is on the roster at their position. Some the war room will like better or less than I do but none of these would be a bad pick. What sounds better, 3 of them or as many as 5 or 6 (one should slip to the 4th)? Sure, jump on Peterson, Miller, or Fairley at 9 otherwise…
Nice Grouping
Wow…every one of the names you listed is on my blackboard, and they fit. Nice job!
The only teams I can see taking one of the offensive linemen are DAL, DET, & NE, before NYG at 19. And DET is doubtfull because of the quality of DL available at the top half of this years draft. Trade up’s are most likely for teams to get WR, or DL
Expect the Cowboy’s to deal for more pks, and still get an impact player in the 1st.
Sit back and enjoy the fun now that JG has taken over player selection, and is calling shots.
Just the way I see it for now. Expect six more days of lies, & more lies.
Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.
I'm sure JJ
was thinking the same thing in the 09 draft. All of these players sound good, but you never know, it’s like picking stocks, there’s a risk/reward no matter what you do. We need some help at many positions, but especially the OL. Drafting top prospects is safer than the shotgun approach, otherwise, every team would be trying to trade down to get as many prospects as they could. We drafted a ton of prospects in 09. JJ was ecstatic after last year’s draft with Dez an Lee and his 09 crop. He thought going to training camp was going to be special in 2010. All his 09 haul and the newly drafted players. Look how that turned out. 09 a total bust and we’re 6-10. You might be right and we may get lucky and end up with hauls as in 89 and 91, but remember Jimmy was calling the shots in those darfts not JJ.
This will not be a special teams draft
How many picks in the first 110? Value and need are out of sync so move to where they match. I’m saying take the shotgun in a crowded room not a .22 out to the woods. As to your last point, JG and not Wade is the Angel on Jerry’s shoulder trying to steer him to the light.
Still trading down has its risks that neither you nor I can foresee
I’d rather take the safer bet, rather than extra picks and end up with borderline players. Early in the draft you should only trade down if you’re sure one of the players you value equally will be there. Trade up later in the draft if someone you value falls inexplicably. That way you cover your bases and minimize your risks. AND PLAEASE DRAFT A STARTING RT.
Being Confident In Pre-Draft Research
Recognizing targets, and knowing their worth allows teams to
maximize the value of their draft.
The Cowboy’s actual board is probably far different from the mocks. They will believe in their own evaluations, and have been grading this years draftees for years….not months.
The #9 draft pick has had a “For Sale” sign on it since the moment it was announced. Every pick has it’s risk.
Looking forward to our new head coach’s first draft, and feeling very optomistic.
Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.
Valid argument
Except that you’re calling a 20 year old without game experience at LT, some concerns about his knee, some concerns about his intelligence, a safer bet at #9. Neither of us knows how the draft board is lined up, but the consensus is great depth in the draft at DL, a huge probability of a run on QB’s in the first 2 rounds (Mayock thinks 8!), and a run on the top tier of OT likely from the mid teens to the end of the first round. You just agreed with my position “players you value equally will be there.”
Trade down for Watt or Jordan
Then trade back up for Castonzo or Sherrod or even Pouncey.
In Romo we Trust
Pouncey... really?
stephen wisniewski is so much better. He is the best center in the draft by far.
Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith
pouncey wants to be in pttsburgh, don't want to know about that guy
and he’s not even clsoe to his brother
So funny, we scream and scream for years to take an OT early,
Now here he is staring us in the face and we are making excuses not to take him. Just run the damn card in at 9, before we are all sitting here 10 years from now talking about how stupid Jerry is for passing up Tyron Smith.
Administrator of www.startaterriblerumoraboutpatrickpetersonsoheslidesto#9.com
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Apr 21, 2011 5:12 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Tyron Smith aint a sure bet
so don’t talk about him like he is. And if you haven’t noticed we have some issues with our linemen on the other side of the ball as well.
Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith
No one's a sure bet, but since we don't draft OL in the first
we may never know.
No one's sayin a sure bet, but what if he becomes everything they say he will?
when are we gonna pick this high again and have a shot at a possible blue chip tackle?
Administrator of www.startaterriblerumoraboutpatrickpetersonsoheslidesto#9.com
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Apr 21, 2011 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
IF IF IF
alot of that going around…..again, not an exact science, so all picks are risks……
now people will say so and so is a cant miss, but somehow there are always misses anyway
He who laughs last, thinks slowest
Well.....my days of not taking you seriously have certainly come to a middle
"Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name"
Exactly, everybody is an IF.
So why not take the guy with the highest ceiling, who also has a ton of good game tape. People are acting like Tyron Smith is Mike Mamula, or Bruce Campbell. Every scout says he looks great on tape first and foremost. Its like we are counting his athleticism against him.
Administrator of www.startaterriblerumoraboutpatrickpetersonsoheslidesto#9.com
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Apr 21, 2011 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions
so why not
trade down and get two picks for our trouble to increase the odds of success.. :-)
I dont have a problem with Smith, i have a problem with not trading down if the boys feel the OT are grading out very similar……
In not a scout and dont presume to be by watching a bunch of tape, I will trust JG to do the right thing (if JJ will let him). When the folks that do the scouting for a living miss on so many picks, I find it funny that a bunch of us get soooo argumenitive (sp) as to why “their guy” must be picked.
He who laughs last, thinks slowest
Well.....my days of not taking you seriously have certainly come to a middle
"Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name"
I can just really see us getting too cute, trading back too far
and not getting what we really want. Say we trade back to 14. Washington, Minnesota, and Detroit could all realistically take tackles. Lets say two of them do, so thats probably Smith and Castonzo. Now most guys have those two graded similarly, but how close is the 3rd guy?
What if the gap between the 2nd and 3rd OT on the Cowboys board is so great that it makes more sense to draft another position? Then we are back to square one, and we have bypassed an opportunity to address a need we have long needed to address. It’s in a sense making an excuse not to draft a tackle. It’s like saying “Whoops, all the tackles are gone. We were really gonna take one too. Oh well, I guess we’ll take JJ Watt.”
Look at the rest of our needs. The draft is deeper at corner, guard, linebacker, and a LOT deeper at defensive end. Anyone you pick at those positions in the 2nd or 3rd round you’d probably be okay with.
There are 4 or maybe 5 OT’s in that top tier. After that the talent falls right off the table.
Administrator of www.startaterriblerumoraboutpatrickpetersonsoheslidesto#9.com
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Apr 22, 2011 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
What if the gap between the 2nd and 3rd OT on the Cowboys board is so great that it makes more sense to draft another position?
Then they dont trade back, it only works if they see close to equal value, or feel that they can get an equal value out of another position…..it does have risks, and if it was still wade as HC, i would be leaning more in the stand pat direction, but I will give a little faith that JJ will let JG have a big say in what happens this year
He who laughs last, thinks slowest
Well.....my days of not taking you seriously have certainly come to a middle
"Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name"
He passed the re-check, its silly season.
I havent seen anything concrete on that.
Administrator of www.startaterriblerumoraboutpatrickpetersonsoheslidesto#9.com
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on Apr 22, 2011 6:33 AM CDT up reply actions
when are we gonna pick this high again and have a shot at a possible blue chip tackle?
Next year after we take a DE in the first round this year and Romo gets killed this season.
"Be great today" - Jason Garrett
I haven't been screaming for OL...
and I don’t think T.Smith is a top 10 player….In fact it would not surprise me if Castanzo has a better career.
by death of the cool on Apr 21, 2011 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah it's ironic but by the other hand OT's this year are not that good
if tyron was rusell okung i would pray for him being there at 9
We are trying to get an OL early...
Just not at #9 early.
F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...
You know
our track record for drafting DL in the first round isn’t what I’d call stellar. Sometimes we hit, but we often are disappointed at the busts or at those drafted who have not met our expectations. At least the same statement can’t be made re the OL, because we haven’t DRAFTED any in the first.
True, but the Rams will only know that in retrospect. The Skins won't tell them what their plans are, so, if they want J Jones,
They’ll have to jump the Skins to be assured of getting him.
This is JJ's time to shine ... the flashier the deal, the better!
Why be an owner if you can’t horse trade with the picks? Read the JJ rules, by GWN, and enjoy the drama! I’m sure he can find 2 good starters instead of 1.
The reason for smith moving down
the reason smith is moving down on kiper and alot of boards is what I’ve been saying all along Smith is not going to start for what ever team draft’s him how can I put this nicely he is as dumb as a box of rocks if people would pay more attention to what scout’s say instead of the mel kiper types people would have already figured it out the cowboys don’t have time to draft a player with a top ten pick and he does not start right away
Really?
dumb as a box of rocks
Where is your proof? a missed Bowl game?….
Von Miller+Demarcus Ware+Jay Ratliff+Rob Ryan=Nightmare for Opposing OC's
by I am Ironman!!! on Apr 23, 2011 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Ironman
I wonder why so many people are down on Smith when he payed exceptionably well at RT at USC for 2 years and was projected to be the starting LT if he hadn’t declared early, and yet some of he same people hype Fairley, who had 1 good year at Auburn before he too declared. Fairley is no Suh. He’s a very good player, but he’s got as many question marks as any of the other potential1st round picks.
Don't ask me....
I have no Idea….Personally I wouldn’t mind Smith at #9….But I would hope that they at least explored trade down options…..
My “big Board”
Miller
Peterson
Trade down
Smith
But that is just me….
Von Miller+Demarcus Ware+Jay Ratliff+Rob Ryan=Nightmare for Opposing OC's
by I am Ironman!!! on Apr 24, 2011 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I can see Jerry screwing this up..
If he trades down. For some reason this man doesnt understand that the key to the draft is quality over quantity. Thats the problem with this team now. Too many JAGs. Doesnt make sense to get a bunch of guys who cant play.
by dcsince77 on Apr 24, 2011 1:00 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
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