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Around SBN: On Hazards And Hulks And Tigers, Oh My!

The truth? OLine is the Cowboys biggest need

The truth? Do you really need to invest top picks to be successful? Not so much, I just reviewed every team that went to the Super Bowl and found that a 1st Round pick at OT can be of help, but they aren't the determining factor.

So, let's look at the Super Bowl teams and their starting Tackles:

Steelers - Packers
Starting Tackles:
Jonathan Scott (FA / 5th Round - Detroit) and Flozell Adams (FA / 2nd Round - Cowboys).
Chad Clifton (2nd Round) and Bryan Bulaga (1st Round).

Star-divide

Saints - Colts
Starting Tackles:
Jermon Bushrod (4th Round) and Jonathan Stinchcomb (2nd Round).
Charlie Johnson (UDFA) and Ryan Diem (4th Round).

Steelers - Cardinals
Starting Tackles:
Max Starks (3rd Round) and Willie Colon (4th Round).
Mike Gandy (FA / 3rd Round - Bears) and Levi Brown (1st Round).

Giants - Patriots
Starting Tackles:
David Diehl (5th Round) and Kareem McKenzie (FA / 3rd Round - Jets).
Matt Light (2nd Round) and Nick Kaczur (3rd Round).

Colts - Bears
Starting Tackles:
Tarik Glenn (1st Round) and Ryan Diem (4th Round).
John Tait (FA / 1st Round - Bears) and Fred Miller (FA / 5th Round - Rams).

Steelers - Seahawks
Starting Tackles:
Marvel Smith (2nd Round) and Max Starks (3rd Round).
Walter Jones (1st Round) and Sean Locklear (3rd Round).

Patriots - Eagles
Starting Tackles:
Matt Light (2nd Round) and Tom Ashworth (UDFA).
Tra Thomas (1st Round) and Jon Runyan (FA / 4th - Oilers).

Patriots - Panthers
Starting Tackles:
Matt Light (2nd Round) and Tom Ashworth (UDFA).
Todd Steussie (FA / 1st Round - Vikings) and Jordan Gross (1st Round).

Buccaneers - Raiders
Starting Tackles:
Roman Oben (FA / 3rd Round - Giants) and Kenyatta Walker (1st Round).
Barry Sims (UDFA) and Lincoln Kennedy (FA / 1st Round - Falcons).

Patriots - Rams
Starting Tackles:
Matt Light (2nd Round) and Greg Randall (4th Round).
Orlando Pace (1st Round) and Ryan Tucker (4th Round).

Ravens - Giants
Starting Tackles:
Jonathan Ogden (1st Round) and Harry Swayne (FA / 7th Round - Buccaneers).
Lomas Brown (FA / 1st Round - Lions) and Luke Petitgout (1st Round).

 

Each of those teams didn't made it all the way to the Super Bowl because they had the best pass protection or the best run blocking. They made it all the way because they did all of this at an above average level:

  • Run blocking.
  • Pass protection.
  • Run stopping.
  • Pass pressure and coverage.

My reasoning is this: are the Cowboys capable of doing all of that at an above average level? If your answer is no, then a 1st Round OT isn't the answer to all of the Cowboys problems and the key to the Super Bowl. The Cowboys have several areas in which they need to work and stand at least a couple of good Drafts away from being capable of Super Bowl talk.

That's why I wouldn't be surprised if the team decides to go against the public opinion and takes someone that isn't an OLineman with the 1st pick in the Draft.

And on the other hand, I won't be surprised if OLine is the pick, because the need is great.

That's the idea, I've seen so much discussion about how this or that is the way to go and how there is no other way, but the Cowboys needs are many and nobody should be surprised that the Cowboys front office didn't moved in his desired direction.

If it's OLine? It's great. If it's DLine? Great. CB? Great. OLB? Great. RB, TE, QB or something else? OK, that wouldn't be so great...

Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.

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If it's possible to address more than one need

then by all means do so. In fact, we must do so.

IN GENERAL, a Draft pool that s deep in DE,s thin at ‘starting quality’ OT’s and pretty devoid of S talent, choices become more apparent. The degree to which the Brain Trust prioritizes need, assesses talent will shape our overall approach. Circumstance will then drive execution – it’s a dynamic process. I just want our critical needs addressed as effectively as possible through a combination of selections at key positions with appropriately valued talent.

We live life forwards and understand it backwards

by tdships on Apr 23, 2011 1:32 PM CDT reply actions  

me too, but aggressively

No more just missing out on a great OL prospect because they hoped he’d fall another 4 spots. Ugh, Unger anyone.

by thebigham on Apr 23, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

No more just missing out on a great OL prospect because they hoped he’d fall another 4 spots. Ugh, Unger anyone.

Do you agree that the arguement you are making is Dallas cannot afford to wait to draft an OL because all the good OL end up getting drafted before Dallas picks?

And you’re using 2009 and Unger being drafted before Dallas’s pick at #51 as an example of that?

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Apr 23, 2011 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I want them to be aggressive

Similar to what Andy Reid does, if you wants someone and they are within reach he goes gets them instead of sitting on his hands hoping they would just fall in their laps

by thebigham on Apr 23, 2011 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

so unger is an example of where Dallas should have traded up?

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Apr 23, 2011 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

well it was known that they wanted him

So yes they should of grabbed him, aggressively.

What are you getting at haha

by thebigham on Apr 23, 2011 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just wanted to understand what you were implying. I wasn’t sure. I can see the Unger experience being an example of where Dallas should have traded up.

I don’t see it as an example of all the good OL being gone.

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Apr 23, 2011 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

its whoever they think is good

they should do what reid does, if you think a player is good, go a get him. Don’t wait and hope he’ll be there

by thebigham on Apr 24, 2011 5:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree if there is one player in particular that you want.

But realistically, it’s a general consensus that none of the OL talent is worth a #9 pick. If a team is willing to trade us for another pick in the top 3 rounds, that is enough to move down 5 spots, where we speculate that is where there will start to be a run on OL, then why not go with it. Even if someone shakes up the board and gets Tyron Smith at 12 or 13, there are still 3 other lineman that could come in and do the same job too. Now, if there was a once in a lifetime player like Eric Berry that went 5th last year, and we where one position of need away from achieving our goals? Eric Berry we could have switched between FS and SS and he was complete as a safety? Then I would have moved up to get him. But to be honest, there is no one particular person that we are targeting. We have so many holes to fill, we are looking at “if” and “then” scenarios. Yes, trade down. Get the picks, and fill holes.

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 24, 2011 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

see thats what i don't buy

if they like a guy good enough to take him at 14 why not take him at 9 to make sure you get him.

If its good enough to call its good enough to raise. Tight but aggressive.

by thebigham on Apr 24, 2011 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

All of the players whom we are currently considering at #9 are ranked very closely. If we were to factor in need at #9 and take T Smith (ranked 10 th by Mayock), that would be fine. The RT argument is superfluous to me in this new passing NFL with pass rushers coming from everywhere. If you have a bunch of players ranked equally, ie, T Smith, A Smith, JJ Watt, C Jordan, and you’re not factoring in need, then trading down with the Rams for extra pick(s) and taking one of the above would make sense.

by pfloyd1 on Apr 24, 2011 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Von Miller+Demarcus Ware+Jay Ratliff+Rob Ryan=Nightmare for Opposing OC's

by I am Ironman!!! on Apr 24, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

All in

Weltschmerzen.
My $.02's worth $.00.

by tanstaafl on Apr 24, 2011 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but there is not one guy in particular that we are trying to get..

It wasn’t like last year where we knew we wanted Dez. So when he fell to certain spot, Jerry Jones pulled the trigger. We have alot of holes and could go in alot of different directions. We could snag a DE, OL, CB, or possibly a OLB. So our focus is not actually on one player, its on maximizing the value of our picks. And that 3 round pick that we could snag could be our next Bradie James.

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 25, 2011 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

What consensus?

Bunting has T. Smith ranked as his #4 overall propsect, Mayock has him #10.

by Rena on Apr 24, 2011 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Very well said

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 23, 2011 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sweet jeez, td...

You’re gonna have both the “BPA” and “draft for need” lynch mobs hollering for your hide. Mob psychology doesn’t tolerate common sense.

Weltschmerzen.
My $.02's worth $.00.

by tanstaafl on Apr 24, 2011 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Probbaly too late on that score

My brain is twisted by all this pretzel logic anyway.

We live life forwards and understand it backwards

by tdships on Apr 24, 2011 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions  


Your conclusion’s valid. Truth? That’s another matter.
btw, clip’s not directed at you, Chandus, or any in particular. Yet.

Truth is “nobody should be surprised that the Cowboys front office didn’t moved in his desired direction”. I’ll go out on a limb and predict it’s going to happen. A nice big sturdy limb.

Truth is your reasoning looks like it’ll take a team, not an individual.

Weltschmerzen.
My $.02's worth $.00.

by tanstaafl on Apr 23, 2011 2:46 PM CDT reply actions  

are you running for office?

because only politicians are that wishy washy. Take a stand a tell us what YOU think is the greatest need. When I read something on this site (whether i agree or not with the content) I want to here someones opinion, not if its _ ? Great.

I think judging by the fact that we finished top 10 in most offensive catergories and near the bottom in a lot of defensive catergories as well as the fact that are QB sacks and QB pressures were way down this year that we need to go defense with #9 and since there isnt a safety worth that pick and if Petersen or Miller wont fall then (if we stay at #9) we need to go DE.

Yes OL does need to be addressed earlier than rd 3 or 4 this year but not #9. The only OL position that can justify a top 10 pick is LT and that is the one position that we should be good at for the next 6 years.

by jfdebois on Apr 23, 2011 2:55 PM CDT reply actions  

but you can't judge it like that

Ever think the D was so bad was because the O never gave them a break? Too many 3 and outs. Then when it did’t matter anymore the O put up yards against prevent, garbage D? There are alot of factors, that tie into each other.

I use the eyeball test and to me it tells me that OL is the biggest need. I was tired of Romo running for his life, the gameplan being hindered, only able for a 3 step drop hot read at best, no development of passing plays, too predictable, run game nonexsistent. This offense can win shutouts, circa ’07. A FA FS will do wonders not to mention RR. This offense on the other hand is on its last breath…

by thebigham on Apr 23, 2011 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Well stated bigham ,

totally agree with you.

Davie Wilson
"how bout them cowboys"!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Apr 23, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

BH,

If you like to challenge your opinions against reality, you want to look at this …

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/keeping-defense-field

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Apr 23, 2011 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I skimmed it

not everything can be supported by using formulas and stats. There are somethings that just can’t be measured.

Again Eyeball test shows this offense is holding the team back. An upgrade at FS (which can be found cheap in FA unlike OL) and adding RR as the DC will already increase this defense enough to win games. Anything is bonus. This offense on the other hand needs to be upgraded at the OL

by thebigham on Apr 23, 2011 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

?????/

Eyeball test? Really? That is the basis for your argument? I can’t compete with that.

by jfdebois on Apr 23, 2011 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

yes your right

silly me for using stats and common sense when all i had to do was use my eyeballs.

by jfdebois on Apr 23, 2011 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

no one say you can't

but in the league of parity, football isn’t baseball everything isn’t stats.

by thebigham on Apr 23, 2011 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

now im just disapointed

your argument implies that in baseball stats are everything. well now i need it explained to me how the giants won the series.

Please stop blowing my mind with your wisdom.

by jfdebois on Apr 23, 2011 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

whatever dude, putting me down doesn't make you look superior, fyi.

So you acknowledge there’s more to sports than stats can explain yet you put me down for using “eyeball test”

My eyes told me the offense was holding the team back. From the extra work the coaching staff had to put in to come up with a gameplan to work around this aged OL. To Romo running for his life every play. To defenses knowing our weakness with giant neon letters. To the run game being nonexsistent. To not being able to have any pass plays development. Barely enough time for a hot read. To the ultimate injury of our starting QB. Yes I know gronk missed a block but no one should come from the middle untouched when gurode? was just standing there doing nothing.

To me my eyes say this offense can only get worse. Another year of age and wear on those guys. Can’t be foolish enough that they are okay enough to get by. Don’t be fooled by garbage time stats and points.

by thebigham on Apr 23, 2011 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm guessing your age is such that you'd refuse to accept wisdom

I find that fans who have seen a certain amount of football played BEFORE the Jimmy Johnson era have a more balanced approach to such things.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 23, 2011 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Statistics in baseball...

are more indicative performance measures, both individually and team-wise, than they are in football partially as a result of a less significant interaction effect. It’s not everything, since nothing ever really is. But it’s a start for your research into the topic, jf.

Oh, and thank whatever gods you may believe in that neither number-crunchers, stats nor anything else can yet pre-determine the winner, baseball, football, hockey or any other sport. Keeps things…- interesting.

One thing, it’s not wisdom. It’s math.

Weltschmerzen.
My $.02's worth $.00.

by tanstaafl on Apr 23, 2011 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

After this then im done with you

My eyeball test showed me that Jay Cutler, Shaun Hill, and David Garrard carved up this defense.

by jfdebois on Apr 23, 2011 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

And my eyes

aaw our safeties blwoing big plays in all those games and Wade’s scheming getting abused.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 23, 2011 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah I guess people forget

we hired Rob Ryan and that there are plenty of FA safeties on the market and fair a lot better than signing a FA OL.

One safety and a new coach will go aloooong way.

On contrast there are 4 yes 4 starting OL that need replaced not to mention 5 more backups.

Hm.. which are needs a more immediate jump

by thebigham on Apr 23, 2011 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey Now!

We could draft a safety too ya know???

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 23, 2011 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sorry, I have to interject here...

Stats can tell story but they are misleading. Yes, the defense was definitely terrible based on stats LLC. But if you watched the games ( not accusing you of not watching the games) you would realize that we couldn’t sustain long drives and we also had turnovers near our own redzones. That puts the defense in bad positions. Also, what was Tony Romo’s interception rate at? Now if you watched the games, you would realize that most of those interceptions where because of dropped and tipped passes that Roy Williams and Miles Austin created. Now if you looked just at the stats, Romo had a terrible game, but if you did the eye test you would realize that Miles and Roy where the big reasons for the interception.

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 24, 2011 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Stats are like bikinis

What they reveal is interesting, but what they hide can be crucial!

by honkytonkbaseball on Apr 24, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lol nice analogy..

Davie Wilson
"how bout them cowboys"!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Apr 24, 2011 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

HAHAHA

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

You can certainly make your position clearer by using stats.

However, your stats only apply to last years team and predict nothing about the future, ie, this years team. The same argument can be made if you compare the quality of the defense in 09 vs 10, ie, our defense performed very well in 09 but not as well in 10. Those of us who think the OL needs big help are just trying to project how the current crop of players on the roster are likely to perform based on many parameters, including their age, ability to stay healthy, roster depth behind them, one big hole at RT, smaller holes elsewhere. It has nothing to do with statistics, since there are no statistics for the upcoming season. Should we wait until this season is over to statistically analyze the performance of the OL before we improve its personnel? If, the answer is yes, then we truly need a new GM, since a GM without vision is useless.

Our reasoninng is the needs are more pressing for the OL rather than the DL. We feel that an A Ball upgrade and RR will really make a difference in the performance of the defense. It’s not that we don’t need defensive players for the furure, but we need OL help immediately. You can throw all the stats from previous years at us and to me they are meaningless unless you can factor in the variables of the future. We deem that our variables suggest that the OL is the priority and that your stats don’t apply to the current set of variables.

by pfloyd1 on Apr 24, 2011 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Most important stat, 4 out of 5 starters on OL 32 this year,

Wake up people…..

Davie Wilson
"how bout them cowboys"!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Apr 24, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

This is wisdom
not everything can be supported by using formulas and stats. There are somethings that just can’t be measured.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 23, 2011 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

And stats without context can easily be misinterpreted and often can’t be predictive.
If your team had a really old OLine that was breaking down but the coach playcalled around the deficiencies and anaged to be ranked high in yards and TDs, does it guarantee the same results the year after when the OLine is even older?
If a young defense that closed out one season with shutouts and seemed ont he verge of taking the next step, suddenly collapsed the next season and quit on their coach and had to depend on Ball for safety help, is the season afte that with a new HC and DC closer to the last season or the one prior to that, or something new?

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 23, 2011 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Take a look at what's going on in Congress over the Budget if you need evidence

..and you want me to believe somebody’s menu selection of statistical variables and THEIR interpretation of the causal and correlative linkages?!?!?!

K…M…A!!!!

I’ll continue to watch the games and formulate my own opinions, thank you very much.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 23, 2011 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’m more agreeable when someone else formulates my opinions.

I don’t always agree with them, but then the feudin’ fun starts.

Weltschmerzen.
My $.02's worth $.00.

by tanstaafl on Apr 23, 2011 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

What we failed to also realize is that teams caught on to our defensive strategies because we dumbed it down so much. This league is full of smart players and coaches. The same thing that worked in game 1 will not work in game 2 against them. Teams do not live in a vacum either. While we are making upgrades, teams are making upgrades too. We can’t expect our deteriorating line will last this year because last year we game planned around not running to the right. We all know that the OL is a serious issue that has reared it’s ugly head many of many times.

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 24, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Correct me if im wrong

but this offense on its last breath scored the 3rd most points since 1994 mostly with a backup QB and the D gave up 431 points. What kind of break did the offense need to give them? Did they score to quickly? Did they tire Tererence Newman out when he kept getting beat? Did they send it extra blockers for the other team when they couldnt pressure the QB? Did they get in the way when Michael Jenkins tried to make a tackle? Did they confuse Alan Ball in coverage and cause him to be out of position? Is the offense the reason B James and K Brooking looked old? Yes Oline needs to be addressed but there are a ton of holes on Defense.

by jfdebois on Apr 23, 2011 3:54 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

All I have to see is Week 1

This Defense can hold someone when it needs to. But the way the OL is this offense can no longer sustain a drive or score points when needed.

Hey if you think that ignoring the OL another year is okay by all means go ahead. But I know what I see and that is a gameplan designed around the inefficiencies of its OL. That should never be the case. The day I see Romo stand in the pocket for more than 3 seconds is the day I wake up from a dream

by thebigham on Apr 23, 2011 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

No the defense actually can't

Just watch the Arizona cardinals game if you need a reminder…

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 24, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

week 16 at that point theres nothing to play for

that why i say week 1 everything is still on the line

by thebigham on Apr 24, 2011 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Um actually...

you might have forgotten but Kitna spotted them the first 14 points off two pick sixes.
http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=301225022

Also our PPG once Garrett took over were a little skewed since the defense started to create more turnovers. See McCann’s two TD’s and Sean Lee’s ints.

by starmesh23 on Apr 24, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

So you deride the defense's stoutness when people use points allowed but you "+100" someone's post about the offense having scored a bunch against the opposition

I think you should rename yourself;

How about Hypocrite in Thick and Thin?

After all, HiTaT sounds better than FiTaT anyway…kinda sorta like you being all gangsta but with a calculator instead of a piece.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 23, 2011 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

he no longer responds to me (or at least that’s what he says…let’s see how long it lasts) because he abhors dissent over the idea that his statistical interpretations should be seen as synonymous with the word of God. It’s very Taliban-esque.

Hmmm…Taliban…TiTaT? Worth considering, if only because of the endless innuendo opportunities.

The funny part is; why would anybody who seeks only unanimity of thought be on a PUBLIC BLOG of all places?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 23, 2011 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

How about I go to 'Blings in Thick and Thin'?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 23, 2011 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seriously? Taliban-esque?

So now, any time a poster suggests that their opinion is superior can I label them as being synonymous with a terrorist organization? Is that really the precedent you want to set?

If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Apr 23, 2011 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

It was the religious fervor over such superiority that I likened it to

…which, in point of fact, is what the Taliban is.

But I think you know it’s all bloggery. You can’t take it TOO seriously, C729.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 23, 2011 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree that you can't take it too seriously

but comparing someone’s fervor to that of a religious group with terrorist ties (if we are going to be politically correct) is pretty far set against the standards of this blog. Let’s not turn this blog into the anarchical community that currently is known as the political community.

If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Apr 23, 2011 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's also not be so uptight that analogies, which clearly have tongue-in-cheek overtones, set off alarm bells

…and keep in mind, ideas about how to regulate the ways people choose to make a point is also a political discussion.

To think SB Nation is not highly anarchical is flawed thinking.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Surely you would agree though that the way it is run

keeps SB Nation less anarchical than say, the ESPN message boards, wouldn’t you? Isn’t that after all why you post here rather than sorting through the crap posted on those large message boards? Surely you can recognize that a difference of only a few degrees is significant nonetheless.

And tongue in cheek or not, some comparisons cross the line. Of course, you can choose to ignore that line if you wish. Thankfully, the SB Nation mechanisms for enforcing said line are better than those of other sites where such mechanisms are largely nonexistent.

If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Apr 24, 2011 4:28 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Actually, I like the formatting, the cerebral dialogue...

and the fact that so much Cowboys material is housed in one place.

I actually prefer a more liberal approach when it comes to allowing posters to speak their minds so long as it limits profanity and “fighting words”.

Speaking of blogosphere anarchy, have you seen some of the stuff that they post on BGN during the game threads? OMG

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 27, 2011 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's not really that hypocritical

considering FiTaT was clearly “+100” on the fact that it is ridiculous to suggest that our defense was poor because of the offense. The points scored statistic is pretty meaningless in this context since there were plenty of efficiency statistics (which is what FiTaT uses) that pointed to our offense being quite efficient. Simply because the poster cited a statistic that FiTaT doesn’t use, doesn’t mean that he can’t agree with the conclusion of the poster.

If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Apr 23, 2011 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds like you are thinking for him, instead of thinking along with him

If he wants to respond, he can. If not…not.

Crap, that last sentence should have ended better. :-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 23, 2011 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well seeing as I am not him I really can't think with him.

Regardless, I didn’t see real hypocrisy in his statement.

If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Apr 23, 2011 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

And I did

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

You were reaching.

I can understand why you are predisposed at this point to disagree strongly with FiTaT, but you were reaching strongly to call him out.

If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

by Creasy729 on Apr 24, 2011 4:30 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I disagree

I’ve found several inconsistencies the likes of which I pointed out above.

I cherish your right to disagree.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 27, 2011 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

okay

you look at week 1 and i will look at the season as a whole. Also never said ignore the oline. I said #9 overall is to high for an olineman other than LT (which assuming Free is resigned) we are set at. Also the d needed to hold NO just once on 3 occasions and failed. Yes Williams fumbled but NO started that drive at their own 10 yard line.

by jfdebois on Apr 23, 2011 4:04 PM CDT reply actions  

What really strikes me about this

is the fact that you have here either a superb defenses that are creative with low predictability factors or offenses that have the weapons to run multiple formations and personnel groupings creatively to force defenses into declaring and being dictated to. Our creative factor is sorely lacking on both sides! Fortunately, I view the Rob Ryan acquisition as kind of like already receiving a 1st rd draft choice. Defensive creativity?…Solved. Offensively?…we’ll have to see. Having said that, I’m not dismissing the need for better Oline play at all. Obviously, you can’t have Colombo stammering around or the interior being gutted all to frequently, but a little superior chess play obviously helps less than stellar on the field talent. So much so, that maybe a Willie Smith, a James Carpenter, or a Ray Dominguez more than gets the job done and you can address other needs in a trade down scenario, rather than just hitch yourself to Tyron, Gabe, etc ( which still wouldn’t make me mad). Also,…..I’m not implying Ryan is all we need defensively, btw.

by stargazer33 on Apr 23, 2011 4:17 PM CDT reply actions  

You must depend on your entire team to win a Super Bowl.

But apparently, a good OT can really help you get to the SB.
Is it me, or are there 14 1st round OTs in the past 11 SuperBowls? Does that not seem like a large number? Statistically, at least one team in the each Super Bowl had a 1st round OT. There are a lot of 2nd rounders as well…and we haven’t drafted one of those since ’04 and he was a bust.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 23, 2011 4:26 PM CDT reply actions  

I think Jimmy laid out that blueprint pretty succinctly

5 elite guys needed to make you a SB contender:

LT, RB, CB, DE, and QB.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 23, 2011 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

drop RB and replace w/OLB for today's NFL, I guess

JImmy liked speed om D, and I’m hoping we’re moving away from Parcell’s Molasses D to a more athletic, speedy model.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Apr 23, 2011 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think his point was that you need a dominant pass rusher

In the 4-3, his was Haley.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 23, 2011 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

definitely-but I doubt he'd still include RB

My point was the decline of the RB as important in the NFL, the passing game has been so emphasized.

Love that passrusher Haley is announcing the 2nd pick.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Apr 24, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I wonder if he would or not...

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gil Brandt picked Rod Hill

Grrrrrrrrrr.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

8 Drafted by the team in which they played.
6 Signed in FA by the team in which they played.

44 Starting Tackles. Around 20% of the teams that drafted a Tackle in the 1st Round went there.

And now, which 1st Round Tackles REALLY helped their team reach that position by playing at a really high level?

Walter Jones, Orlando Pace and Jonathan Ogden.

That’s 3.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Apr 23, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

A few notes

Whether drafted or singed as FA, 1st round OTs are taking and signed as FAs for the purpose of getting a good LT. Drafting will likely mean a more team friendly contract than signing a FA, but we have done neither (Davis doesn’t count because we didn’t sign him to play OT).
We also rarely make any legitimate 2nd round OT picks (plenty of those in your list too). Last time we did it was a bust and in 2004.

Not sure about your starting tackle and % numbers. I don’t think 44 1st round OTs have been drafted in the past 11 years so not sure how you got to 20% of teams.

Highly opinionated statemeent to claim only 3 of the 1st round OTs played at a really high level.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

And Colombo

A lucky sign after injury who ended up playing well at RT, not a highly paid LT FA

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

44 starting Tackles in the Super Bowls mentioned above. 2 in each team.

And please, tell me, out of all those starting Tackles drafted in the 1st Round which ones helped their team playing at high levels? Levi Brown? Kenyatta Walker? Luke Petitgout?

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Apr 24, 2011 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Doesn’t matter how many total OTs are in those Super Bowls – few if any teams will have two 1st rounders on their OLine. 1st round pick is usually LT and we shoudl be judging how many of those were in the Super Bowl and the numbers show it is more than one in each SB, so at least one on each team – 14 1st round OT in 11 Super Bowls. Or judge how there were something like 25 1st round OT in the past 11 years and 14 1st round OT in the Super Bowls. (Yes, not the same ones, but still a correlation).
As for benefitcial OTs in those SB, you are skimming over guys like W. Jones, and Tra Thomas, and I think the Packers would even tell you how happy they were to have BUlaga on their roster after OL injuries during the season.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

t least one on one of the teams (not each team)

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

If you look at it

I haven’t said that taking a Tackle wouldn’t be of help.

But I’ve seen too much of this line of thought, in this site and others: “Take Smith with number 9 and it’s Super Bowl time! WOHOOOOO!”

I just don’t share that opinion.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Apr 24, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hope no one has that opinion.

I am of the trade back and draft an OT group and think that we are a minimum of 4 players away from being a good playoff team. There is no single player we could add to make us that much better than last year. Biggest reasons for hope are Garrett and Ryan.

Wars are won in the trenches and we need some new big uglies!

by BigDinLA on Apr 24, 2011 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

There we agree

I don’t think one player will get you to the SB, I just think a top notch OT helps greatly.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

you can't use just superbowl teams

use playoff teams, Its alot of luck to get to the superbowl but not to the playoffs

by thebigham on Apr 24, 2011 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Luck?

I don’t think that ANY team that went to the Super Bowl was lucky… Luck may have to do with it, but it isn’t the most important factor. Like bad matchups. The Vikings were a bad matchup for Dallas in 2009, but Dallas was a worse matchup for the Saints.

But you still have to beat the team in front of you, and Super Bowl teams beat a lot of teams.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Apr 24, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Green Bay was pretty lucky.

The fact they were able to get solid production out of so many retread players is amazing.

Wars are won in the trenches and we need some new big uglies!

by BigDinLA on Apr 24, 2011 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

While true

GB’s best players (Clay Mathews, Woodson, Rodgers, their wrs, maybe Raji could be in here) played great ball in the playoffs. When your best players play great ball, you’re well positioned to make a run.

by foyesboys on Apr 24, 2011 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Luck has everything to do with it as anything else.

See Steelers run in ’06 hell even Seattle that year haha. Getting to the playoffs is not luck, but making to the Superbowl as a lot of luck. Football is amazing its all about parity you can be 10x better than the other team but the saying any given sunday exsist for a reason

by thebigham on Apr 25, 2011 6:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

The problem is we need 3 OLmen and we need them sooner rather than later.

Our track record for drafting OL is abysmal. That’s why many of us want to start addressing the OL in the first. Maybe, just maybe we can solve some of their problems. We’re not saying don’t draft OL after the 1st, we need 2-3 OL in this draft. The DL prospects are deeper and we need a DE, which can be found in the later part of the 1st if we trade down and then back up or in the second at #40, or go DE 1st and OT with the trade back up . Worst case scenario, we resign Spears and Bowen and let RR do his thing. All we need is an injury to Free or one of the other aging big uglies and we’re postmortem for another season with the current roster depth.

by pfloyd1 on Apr 23, 2011 5:01 PM CDT reply actions  

It can't all happen through the draft

Dallas has to find a Davin joseph or someone to man one of the spots through a veteran pickup.

You just don’t land 3 starters along the O-line in a single draft. In fact, if you’re Dallas you can’t find 3 starters in TEN drafts.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 23, 2011 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think we could possibly get away with 2..

Kosier isn’t a long term solution but I think he has one more good year left. Or if we drafted a center, we could also slide Gurode to a OG position. I don’t expect to rebuild our line in 1 year, but I would rather we did it right so when it’s all said and done we can start to have the continuity that the Giants had with their OL a couple of years ago…

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 24, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Chandus, are you waffling on me?

I thought we had a gentleman’s agreement.

We draft Cam Jordan or Nick Fairley, then an OT and we sign a FA to man the nose and have Jordan/Fairley next to Free agent NT next to Rat.

Don’t go soft on me man…DON’T YOU DO IT!!!!

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 23, 2011 7:00 PM CDT reply actions  

I'm thinking trade down and trade up

Something like:
Trade down from 9 and select one of Castonzo, Watt, Carimi or Liuget (I don’t think that Jordan will be down there).
Trade up from 40 and select one of Phil Taylor, Danny Watkins or Derek Sherrod.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Apr 23, 2011 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think Liuget fits the Ryan scheme

…but a Castonzo/Carimi pairing with Taylor is fine.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 23, 2011 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

really?

I think Liuget would be pretty good in this scheme

by Archie Barberio on Apr 24, 2011 4:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have not seen many scouts that agree Chia.

Most peg Liuget as a 3 technique.

Wars are won in the trenches and we need some new big uglies!

by BigDinLA on Apr 24, 2011 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

huh, well he appears to be on many 34 teams radar

Illinois junior defensive tackle Corey Liuget visited the New York Jets on Wednesday and has previously visited the Miami Dolphins and the St. Louis Rams, according to a league source with knowledge of the situation.

The first-round draft prospect has previously worked out for several teams, including the Dolphins, Kansas City Chiefs, New England Patriots and the Baltimore Ravens.

Liuget is regarded as a legitimate candidate to be drafted as high as the Rams’ 14th overall pick.

His versatility as a defensive lineman who can line up as a three-technique, five-technique or a traditional nose guard has boosted his draft stock

by Archie Barberio on Apr 24, 2011 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's short and is mainly a plugger

He’s a DT or under-tackle in a 4-3 in my eyes.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Has experience playing NT and DE in a 3-4 and can play DT in a 4-3. Has surprisingly good clsoing speed and pass rushing ability for a big man, though certainly not JJ Watt push rusher, but would be a better DE in a 3-4 than someone like Igor.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

An unstuffed bear would be better than Igor

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

But cost more to feed !!.

Davie Wilson
"how bout them cowboys"!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Apr 24, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wrong. Less.

Turn him loose in the stands postgame. The food pays for itself.

Better yet, a female. Mama bear. We put her cub behind the opposing QB. You wanna talk pass rush…

Weltschmerzen.
My $.02's worth $.00.

by tanstaafl on Apr 24, 2011 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

HAHAHA

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

dude is versatile

he can play either but most peg him as a 3, regardless Liuget has the skills to play anywhere in the NFL
under the radar defensive tackle for sure

by Archie Barberio on Apr 24, 2011 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Disagree

He’s not versatile.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Wars are won in the trenches and we need some new big uglies!

by BigDinLA on Apr 24, 2011 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think that he does

He’s quick, stout, knows how to use his hands, strong and for the most part played the 3-tech, but was moved around to DE and 1-tech.

Sure, his height (6-2) and arms (33+) aren’t the norm, but he wouldn’t be the first “short” 3-4 DE in the League.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Apr 24, 2011 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why would you force a round peg into a square hole?

Who are the other DE’s with his body type that you see in today’s 3-4 alignments out there?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right now, I won't look at the body types, but...

I can tell you that 3-4 teams are looking at him.

The Steelers and Bills are 2 of them.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Apr 24, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Steeler might be looking at him as a NT since Hampton is a fireplug too

I never care what Buffalo is or isn’t doing.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Buffalo is also considering going back to the 4-3.

Wars are won in the trenches and we need some new big uglies!

by BigDinLA on Apr 24, 2011 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

They should consider going to the CFL

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

HAHAHA

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Has a good first step too. He can certainly play DE or NT, I think most will depend on what weight a team tries to keep him. One concern is his wieght was I think 330 at end of junior year, but he lost 30 lbs prior to dominant senior season.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

He might be a good rotational NT

…but he’s just too short and short-limbed to be an effective 5-technique.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agree to disagree

Aaron Smith, PITs (like you mentioned above) is 6’5" 300 lbs and has 33 1/2 arm length. Liuget is 6’2" 300 lbs and 33 1/4 arm length.
Besides the fact that I don’t think arm length and body length for 3-4 DE is nearly as important as a 4-3 DE since they won’t be flattening out to get around the corner. The kid has pass rush ability with a quick step and good closing speed. He had 10 QB pressures and 5 sacks and played mostly as 3-4 NT, but does certainly fit some 3-4 DE scheme and played osme in college as well. In my opinoin, he actually provides a lot of versatility for a 3-4 rotation in all positions.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Man we beat this topic to death in Dec or Jan.

It is rare to find an elite 3-4 DE under 6’4. Of course there are always exceptions, but they are rare.

Both Steelers starters are 6’5
Both Ravens starters are 6’4
Patriots starters 6’4 and 6’5
Jets are 6’3 and 6’5 and I have never heard of the 6’3 Devit
Packers have 2 DE’s under 6’4

So as you can see the size obviously matters or all of these teams would not draft that way.

Wars are won in the trenches and we need some new big uglies!

by BigDinLA on Apr 24, 2011 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes

While there may be exceptions, there aren’t a lot of DE’s who are stumpy. At least not if you want them to be able to show the kind of athleticism needed to stuff the run AND create pocket pressure.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yup

They’re rare. But, they are out there:
Jacques Cesaire – SD – 6’2" 295lbs: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/jacques-cesaire/142681
Luis Castillo – SD – 6’3" 290lb: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/luis-castillo/299905
Glenn Dorsey – KC – 6’2" 297lb: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/glenn-dorsey/535291
Ziggy Hood – Pit – 6’3" 300lbs: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/ziggy-hood/638313
Randy Starks – Mia – 6’3" 305lbs: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/randy-starks/200387

Are any of these elite? Cesaire and Castillo are on the edge of that in my eyes. FWIW, Castillo was a Pro Bowl alternate a few years ago. Dorsey and Hood have been disappointments by many accounts. Starks made the Pro Bowl as a replacement for Brett Keisel. Not that Pro Bowls are a great measure of “elite” status.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Apr 24, 2011 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cesaire sucks, Castillo had one good season under Wade, Dorsey was drafted into a 4-3, Hood's done nothing and Starks has played poorly at all d-line positions

So let me ask again, who out there is 6’2" or less that is playing the position at a level worthy of our 1st round pick (whether it be 9, 18 or something in between)?

I think you always look at the best in the business and try to pattern yourself off of that.

Since Richard Seymour was shipped out of NE, they’ve had no pass rush whatsoever. while I like Ty Warren, he’s no Seymour.

I thought Canty had a shot to be a difference maker but I now believe he was victimized by poor coaching.

So back to Liuget; he COULD be a stud, but all of the available empirical evidence suggests his ceiling at the 5-technique would be lower than if he was to play inside in a 4-3 alignment.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you are underselling those guys

There are teams that use 2gap 3-4 DEs (Wade was too) and aren’t looking for tweener pass rushers and light weight guys on the outside…Steelers are a great example of it. I don’t think height plays a huge roll in 3-4 linemen except for batting down passes, and that i mostly reading the play and less about being a few inches taller.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the height and wingspan gives a DE the ability...

to stack and shed to get to the ballcarrier. Liuget is built more like Casey Hampton (6’2", 350 or 360 or 390) than a typical 5 Technique, especially in Rob ryan’s defense.

The point that has to be made is that he doesn’t look the part and if you’re going to use an early (pre-20) #1 on a guy, why make him a developmental project? I could see you doing that in the latter portion of the first, but not early.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pre 20 is too high, I agree

And I think Liuget is more like aaron smith in he has that quick step and pass rushing ability for a big man – htough not pure pass rusher. He also has the arm length of a taller player, but again I don’t think length is that improtant since they don’t try to get around the edge like a 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am hoping Rob's defense asks the DE to be more disruptive on passing downs

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

And...

if what you say is true about the role of the DE, then you’re making an argument that says we’re not likely to see many big plays from anyone who mans this slot. Thus, all you really need is another Spears. But why would you spend a #1 on a guy who you think won’t make many game-changing plays?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Define game changing

While they may not get the glory, they do their job and collapse the pocket and take up double teams to let the OLBs get the glory

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Spears could say he did that

…but he wasn’t worthy of his draft position.

That’s my main point.

If he’s the kind of guy we get in the third, great. But not in the first. If you take a DE in round 1, it should be a guy like Cam Jordan, who has huge boom (and also some bust) potential.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Haloti Ngata

Doesn’t have a ton of sacks, but as 3-4DE he is a game changer and forces the opponent to react to him…though he does have mroe pass rushing athleticism than most guys his size.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

...and the man is huge

I love Ngata.

He spends half his time at NT.

But he’s tall, wide and has quick twitch muscles like a WR.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Used to play a lot more NT

But the Ravens seem intent on using him as DE since they found a 2gapNT and want Ngata’s pressure on the outside. Such a hyperbole – 350lb DL playing outside due to his pass rushing prowess HAHAHA

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think his body and Liuget's body look similar

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

HAHAHA

No doubt, and he does play more 1gap than a guy like Aaaron Smith.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

If he had made it to UFA, I would have taken up a collection

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would sell/donate a kidney for that

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's what I've been thinking too.

Might not have to trade up from 40 to get one of those players though.

"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel

by TXHC on Apr 24, 2011 3:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

exactly

and getting aggressive and drafting whatever OL they feel fits what they want before #40 shows this team understands its weakness and wants to build for long term future.

by thebigham on Apr 23, 2011 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

But you're forgetting about Pat McQuistan!

Oh wait, I mean Robert Brewster and Sam Young!

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Apr 23, 2011 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well said

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 23, 2011 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's natural being concerned

Everyone should be. But the core of my opinion is: are the Cowboys capable of being consistent in the 4 factors mentioned above?

Stopping the run hasn’t been a problem. That’s it. With consistency, the Cowboys can’t run block, pass protect, rush the passer and play in coverage.

That’s very bad. The Cowboys can’t be competitive if they don’t solve all of those problems.

I’m not saying that the Cowboys have to forget about the OLine, they need OLineman, but they have other areas that they need to improve and if you think that one player can help you against the run and in pass pressure and become a bigger improvement over the current starters than a 1st Round OT. You have to take him.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Apr 23, 2011 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

While I agree with you generally

this draft (from everything I know, which I admit, comes mostly from this blog and Raf’s) seems to have a cutoff point when it comes to lineman. If we don’t take one in the first, or trade up in the 2nd, we could very well miss out on drafting a legitimate day 1 contributor. Frankly, we need a guy to step in day 1, hopefully at RT. Columbo’s play last year was unacceptable. You can’t have Calais Campbell almost single handedly killing drives. We NEED a RT.

Could this need be solved through FA and maybe we could get an interior starter later in the draft? Thats another possibility. I’d prefer drafting lineman, but we also do have a huge need on the DL right now that needs to be addressed.

by foyesboys on Apr 24, 2011 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

The problem is that there are no sure things

That’s why you have to take BPA. If you take BPA in a position of need at least you have the defense to say that he was your BPA, but that the guy busted due to whatever reason.

If you’re desperate and take a Tackle due to need, then you aren’t better than the late 90’s and early 2000’s Cowboys. I just don’t want a Levi Brown kind of Tackle.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Apr 24, 2011 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sorry but I don't see a DE making nearly the impact in a 3-4 as a RT

That has been victimized for the past year and a half. Marc Colombo is very injury prone and not getting any younger. We don’t even have anybody behind him to fill the hole until someone better comes along. ROT is a position of need, and there are 3-4 guys who we feel could legitimately fill these holes. We can’t keep playing check down charlie with what we got…

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on Apr 24, 2011 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I get that

But you should also try to understand the opinion of the other side.

Look at the Jets, Steelers, Ravens and Patriots units. Look at their defensive front against the run. Now, look at their defensive front against the pass. Not much of a change in personnel.

What about the Cowboys? Shuffles of personnel because some guys can’t play the pass and some can’t play the run. They’ve been respectable in other years because of smoke and mirrors, and proper execution. In this past year there was a complete debacle in execution.

Do you think that Ryan can make rushers out of guys that can’t rush? No, he would need to continue to use smoke and mirrors, and some teams will continue to claim and SHOW that the Cowboys D is predictable.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Apr 24, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's been 30 years since we drafted Howard Richards in the first round.

He’s now a HOFer. I’ d just like the chance to see another OL drafted in the 1st because you’re right there are no sure things whether it’s OL or DL. All the players we’re considering at #9 have similar draft grades, ie, T Smith, A Smith, JJ Watt, C Jordan, so what’s wrong with T Smith if JJ and JG like him..

by pfloyd1 on Apr 24, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sure

And they may take a Walter Jones.

Or a Levi Brown.

Taking a really high 1st Round prospect at Tackle doesn’t mean that he’s going to be a Hall of Famer.

That’s why I’m saying: Take the BPA in a position of need, don’t force a need. That’s how you end with a Levi Brown, the Cardinals forced a need.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Apr 24, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Chances are good

Tyron Smith will be top 3 remaining on our board when we draft at our biggest position of need. Noone’s saying we should trade up to 5 to make sure we get Smith

by foyesboys on Apr 24, 2011 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

you know what

we should just ignore the OL and wait until the 3rd round
we have great success drafting offensive lineman later on right

we need to start spending higher picks on the offensive line period

by Archie Barberio on Apr 23, 2011 9:13 PM CDT reply actions  

see theres a difference between us and other teams

they hit on OL later in the draft and we simply do not hit on OL
Rogers McQuistan Marten Brewster Johnson thats a pretty bad track history
and the only offensive lineman recently drafted were Brewster and Young
pathetic
we drafted Doug Free in 2007, since then we have not drafted one decent offensive lineman, not one
maybe Sam Young proves me wrong, I hope he does Brewster is a bust look at who we passed on that draft
pathetic
the blame should get passed around
Jerry Stephen Head Coach Offensive Line Coach Scouts Head of Scouting
they all should share the blame on the OL failures in the draft

by Archie Barberio on Apr 23, 2011 9:17 PM CDT reply actions  

We don't hit on it early either

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 23, 2011 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

we dont draft them early

I wish we did
I cant remember the last time we took a OL in the 1st
I cant remember the last time we tokk a oL in the 2nd, Rogers right?
thats totally ignoring the OL

by Archie Barberio on Apr 24, 2011 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Brewster and James Maarten were 3's

…and we already know Jerry doesn’t do OL in the 1st.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't ever give up due to past failures,

that’s not " the cowboys way"…

Davie Wilson
"how bout them cowboys"!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Apr 24, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Have to be concerned, existentially, with Jerry's way more than any other way

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jerry's way is the only way,

best to hope for good input from concerned interests,ie-JG + RR.

Davie Wilson
"how bout them cowboys"!!!

by scotscowboyfan on Apr 24, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well before Felix Jerry had never drafted a kid from Arkansas either.

We can always hope that Garrett truly is running this team.

Wars are won in the trenches and we need some new big uglies!

by BigDinLA on Apr 24, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think that is wishful thinking

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

We haven't given it a legitimate shot in a while....

you’re not wrong, but the last time we drafted an OL high who was more than a project was in 2007. Thats four years ago. Are there any other organizations that ignore their oline for that long? Jerry has spent approximately, two firsts, two thirds and about 120 million dollars (between TO, Miles’ and Roy’s extensions) on the WR position, and when it comes to the line, all hes done is extend a couple over 30 players for too many years without drafting their replacements.

by foyesboys on Apr 24, 2011 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

thats my point

and Free was the SECOND offensive tackle taken, James Marten went BEFORE Free dude
imagine they missed out on Free that draft, we would be F’D!

hey Miles is the man dude you cant blame him for paying Miles and Dez was a absolute steal
drafting Dez in the 1st was a greaaaaat move

my problem is the 2009 Draft, basically we got a f’n scrub in Roy Toy Boy Williams
we missed out on Oher Loadholt Volmer Unger and more
that draft is starting to set this team back when you look at the bigger picture

by Archie Barberio on Apr 24, 2011 4:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

also

one could argue drafting Spencer was a complete mistake but I would have to re-look over what offensive lineman were taken then
one could argue the Martellus Bennett pick was a waste as well
but I dont believe many talented offensive lineman went after him that year

for me its prior to the 2009 draft, how we handled drafting offensive lineman started before that and it came to a pinnacle that season trading away picks, trading down and passing on a guy like Phil Loadholt who could be our STARTING right tackle

Instead we opted to trade down, twice and select Jason Williams a Wade Guy Superscrub with speed, yeah he could run, but he couldnt tackle or cover to save his life
then we ignore quality offensive lineman and use our draft board, our draft board actually gave Robert Brewster a 3rd round grade, thats seriously disgusting
I wouldnt have gave him more than a 5th-6th round grade
dead serious
now I actually like Brewster, as a guard he might have some potential, but that was a total reach, easily one of the worst draft picks I have ever seen in my life
I was like oh yeah were gonna get some decent OL here! I remember seeing some nice names left on the board, but we took Robert f’n Brewster, this fat slobby body
he has the worst body ive ever seen, some guys are fat, some are skinny, some are muscular now this guy is just straight tall and blubber, just like a seal

it has gotten so pathetic for offensive line demand people were BEGGING for Toney Washington, a guy who had sex with his sister
people were sooooo desperate for a offensive lineman people were begging for Toney Washington, now think about that
this is exactly how bad it has gotten

let me give Sam Young some hope here, because he looks like a decent player, but still Sam Young and Costa cannot be relied upon

by Archie Barberio on Apr 24, 2011 4:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

If you watched Jerry's 60-minutes segment...

you know he’s all about the show. The draft has become a huge show. Jerry made the biggest splash last year. O-linemen are not good for the show.

This isn’t a question of what the right thing to do is. If it was, we’d all be saying Jerry has NEVER done the right thing because the O-line has been marginalized in the draft under Jerry.

But let’s not be hypocritical ourselves. Should he have traded up 2 more spots to get Bulaga last year?

Should he have taken Duane Brown over Mike Jenkins?

Joe Staley or Ben Grubbs over Anthony Spencer?

If so, then why all the discussion about the right thing to do? We should be talking about what Jerry is LIKELY to do!

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

It may

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Please let it. Either way.

Which’s more important, the picks or the indication?

Weltschmerzen.
My $.02's worth $.00.

by tanstaafl on Apr 24, 2011 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

THAT is a great question

I’d lean toward the indication. You?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Indication. Adamantly.

Call it a post-Jimmy post-plan thing. Look to one being indicative of long-term planning with a Lombardi objective returning to our tent.

Weltschmerzen.
My $.02's worth $.00.

by tanstaafl on Apr 25, 2011 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

5

Dez was the right pick dude, id take Dez over Bulaga man

by Archie Barberio on Apr 24, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Write that one down, Chia

We’ll come back to it in February next year.

Fair?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

fair sure

but Dez is my favorite player, I think he is a BEAST
Dez is a top 5 skill set

by Archie Barberio on Apr 24, 2011 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

But right now, a bottom 5 maturity level and decision making brain

Low risk on Bulaga, ultra-high risk on Dez right now.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

As long...

as he sticks to making it sag instead of making it rain. LOL

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Apr 25, 2011 1:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't hate those picks, I think they are some of Jerry's better ones

good value, and guys that produced in college. There weren’t really too many question marks- many analysts from what I remember had Spencer rated the highest, the guy who could step in immediately.

But I agree with your point overall. He likes flash. Still though…at some point, hes going to see the light. Hopefully it doesn’t take wasting the Romo/Witten/Austin/Ware/Newman/Ratliff core’s prime years for him to see this

by foyesboys on Apr 24, 2011 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Spencer was supposed to be this great pass rusher

and we got a run stopping OLB

Bennett was supposed to be this pass catching TE threat, and we got a run blocking TE

those are huge busts imo

by Archie Barberio on Apr 24, 2011 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yet is it the player or the scheme?

If Martellus was used less in line would he be a 70 catch TE? Maybe. If Wade had been able to disguise anything Spencer may have had a 9 + sack performance. Also Spencer was on pace for a 7 sack( I know it is not great) season before Spears went down. After Spears was hurt he did not have another sack until week 17.

Wars are won in the trenches and we need some new big uglies!

by BigDinLA on Apr 26, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

on top of that

how many high round 1st AND 2nds has this team spent on Defense! There are plenty of young guys on that side of the ball and with a new coach will do wonders.

The OL on the other hand ehhh…

by thebigham on Apr 24, 2011 5:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

this is stupid

you included sam young but he’s never played except preseason games this is the problem with houck and garrett you don’t know what you have you would have them select smith who scouts will tell you will not start his first year that the team that takes him will have to be patient with him because he is as dumb as a box of rocks

by Nitro76 on Apr 24, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

There has been discussion about his ability to digest a complex set of line calls

He was once ruled academically ineligible.

What was his Wonderlic?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have tried to find it....

was unsuccessful though….Which leads me to believe that he did ok on it…..

Von Miller+Demarcus Ware+Jay Ratliff+Rob Ryan=Nightmare for Opposing OC's

by I am Ironman!!! on Apr 24, 2011 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have never heard anything about inability to digest line calls

Only the single missed game due to academic ineligibility. can’t find his wonderlic score but wasn’t named as one of the low scoring players so…

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

However

(playing Devil’s Advocate here) He wasn’t one of the highest that we know of….

Von Miller+Demarcus Ware+Jay Ratliff+Rob Ryan=Nightmare for Opposing OC's

by I am Ironman!!! on Apr 24, 2011 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Castonzo took it twice

35 and 41.

Jussst sayin’.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

If things go well

Him or Tyron Smith in the 1st…just sayin’

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

I want AC

The school puts out good Ol.

USC not so much. Charles Brown or Sam Baker anyone?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bruce Matthews

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dude, if you have to go back 3 decades to find a stud from a program...

you know you’re reaching. :-)

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

HAHA

oddly enough, USc send mroe tackles to the draft than any other position.
http://www.drafthistory.com/college_pos/college_pos_n.html

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Some should have been sent back

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 27, 2011 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't call it a discussion.

I would call it 1 guy having a major hate on for Smith and posting a bunch of wild accusations that refuses to repond to multi people asking for any shred of proof about.

Yes, he missed 1 game 2 or 3 years ago for academic reasons.

And I looked for over a hour, I can’t find his Wonderlic score. They only posted the top and bottom, not the average ones.

by Rena on Apr 25, 2011 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

My nightmare

We all are anxiously sitting before our boob tubes, computers armed and ready to blog, waiting for the draft to start. Goodell ambles up to the podium, goes through his cursory intros and proclaims " The Carolina Panthers are on the clock". We sit and fidget, some of us pacing back and forth, happy at times as the draft proceeds, Newton and Gabbert are picked before we go on the clock, sad when both Miller and Peterson are gone before we can even contemplate trading up to get them. Finally the Boys turn comes, God, they’re using every precious second they have, are they frantically dealing with one or even better 2 or 3 teams in a trade down scenario? Then Goodell comes back to the podium and announces that with the ninth pick in the draft the Dallas Cowboys choose JJ Watt. Some of us are ecstatic, some mildly upset, I, for one, feel he’s a nice pick, a quality pick, definitely will start now that Spears is gone for sure in FA, but still feel that while he’s somewhat of an upgrade over Spears, because of our system, his impact will be minimal to moderate, but I won’t complain because I like the guy. Then, since there’s no trade down for extra picks, we wonder whether or not to switch channels or continue watching, the light bulb explodes, are you kidding, this is only a once a year deal and you never know what JJ has up his sleeve. I’m not goin’ anywhere. Goodell announces Washington is on the clock. After a few minutes and without hesitation, the card is handed in and Goodell announces, " With the 10th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select Aldon Smith."

This is where my dream turns into a nightmare. Can you imagine Orakpo and Smith coming at Romo from both sides in passing situations? I can’t even concentrate on the rest of the draft. I keep it on, but keep living that pick over and over and my nightmare continues in a perpetual instant replay.

by pfloyd1 on Apr 24, 2011 12:04 PM CDT reply actions  

I see 2 good points you make:

1) A need for QB may make #9 more interesting than we think, and push a player down to us.
And 2), no way do I want to see a DL guy picked top 10. They need to go OL, CB, or pass rusher…….

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Apr 24, 2011 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sometimes you make a deal with the new guy so he'll come work for you

Maybe Ryan wants his pick of the litter to build a new D-line around…

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

It def. could happen, I'm just not for that.

I don’t see any talent that really stands out at our pick….normally I’m all aboard the “Best Player” method of drafting.
But this year, beyond the top 5 or so, and then the 2 WR’s, nobody really stands out. None of the DL guys, none of the OL guys, Prince Akamura, they all are potential greats and potential busts.
So it hurts me, but I think Dallas needs to go Needs to some extent, or trade down.
  Not a great year to be #9.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Apr 24, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Almost of the opinion

RR will never see the end of his contract in DAL. He succeeds – he’s gone to be a HC, he doesn’t – he’s gone anyway.

We live life forwards and understand it backwards

by tdships on Apr 24, 2011 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

What if he is good, not great?

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good enough

Is fine by me

We live life forwards and understand it backwards

by tdships on Apr 24, 2011 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think he wants to be a HC

…but the league is watching his brother intently.

If that melts down, it will hurt Rob’s chances in a big way.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

That would be a fine problem for Dallas to have

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. We’re a 6-10 team until proven otherwise.

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry, I meant his brother.

The better his brother does, the hotter Rob gets.

Lock n Load

by DIRE WOLF on Apr 24, 2011 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep. this knife will cut both ways...with all eyes on the J-E-T-S

"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."

- John Wooden (God rest his soul)

by 5Blings on Apr 24, 2011 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep. Starting 7:20pm Sept 11, 2011

If it’s played. JG’ll be ready, Rex’ll be ready, Rob’ll be ready, Brian’ll be ready. Will the players? Tune in to find out.

Weltschmerzen.
My $.02's worth $.00.

by tanstaafl on Apr 25, 2011 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

thats what scares me too

we ignore RT and the Skins get Aldon Smith
Aldon Smith is gonna be a beast

by Archie Barberio on Apr 24, 2011 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

ANY OTHER PICK THAN T,SMITH AT #9 WOULD BE A MISTAKE!

thats all I have to say; we have good picks now don’t need more to get less. I’m not going to argue; you want another player fine, you think we can trade back, pick up an extra pick and get another OT thats just as good or an equally good player at another position, well your just wrong.

We need defensive help, but short of Von Miller or Marcell Dareus, Patrick Peterson no impact player is there,.

Sorry I feel people are getting lost here lately!

by bad knees on Apr 24, 2011 3:00 PM CDT reply actions  

absolutely not true

There are a few players I’d take over Smith at 9 in a heartbeat as I don’t even think Smith is worthy of a top ten selection. IMO, Watt and Jordan are much better prospects.

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 25, 2011 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

The reasons to address RT in the first two rounds:

1) If you look at the leaked draft board from last year, which OL did our scouts correctly project after the first round?
1-4 Russell Okung, 6’6’’, 305 lbs.
1-5 Trent Williams, 6’5’’, 306 lbs.
1-13 Bryan Bulaga, 6’5’’, 310 lbs.
3-42 Anthony Davis, 6’5’’, 325 lbs.
3-58 Roger Saffold, 6’4’’, 312 lbs.
4-74 Vladimir Ducasse?, 6’4’’, 326 lbs.
5-103 Sam Young, 6’7’’, 305 lbs.
6-118 Jared Veldheer, 6’8’’, 321 lbs.
We had Okung, Williams, and Bulaga slotted as first round talents. Davis went in the first but really struggled. I’ll give our scouts a pass on this one. After that we were off on everyone else. Our scouts had Saffold, Ducasse, and Veldheer about 2 rounds too low from where they were picked. Who knows if Sam Young will be anything other than a backup RT.

2) Everyone but Free is over 31 years. Colombo is done, Davis could give one more year as a starting caliber guard at a reduced salary (which is debatable to some), Kosier is an injury prone guard who is also free agent over 32, Gurode has might be able to play another two seasons. What this tells me, other than we should have address the OL better last draft, is that if we are to contend this year or next we can’t spend draft picks on projects. We need lineman that can play NOW!

3) Which free agent RT would you sign? And if you signed one how much money would you pay him? Doug Free is also in need of a new contract and will want more money than whoever we bring in. How does any of this get your team younger at the OL? Does this help out this teams cap situation? No.

So what should we do?
9. T Tyron Smith
40. BPA defense (DE C. Hayward, CB B. Harris, NT/DE K. Ellis, DB A. Williams, etc.)
71. G Jason Pinkston, Will Rackley, M. Cannon
or
9 for 14 & 78
14. JJ Watt
Package 78 with 40 to take D. Sherrod or Carimi at pick 28
71. BPA OL

Either way lets go and get some meat and potatoes players.

by starmesh23 on Apr 24, 2011 3:35 PM CDT reply actions  

I must admit...

That i didnt know much about Tyron, but after watching highlights and Chia’s analysis, this kid looks like the real deal. Guys like him are the future of the NFL tackle, with more teams converting to 3-4 defenses. RT is just as important as the LT because teams are trying to get to the QB anyway they can. They are also going after the weakest link on the line (see Orakpo vs Barron). With Tyron and Free, we can have the best bookends in the league over the next 5 years. So please get er done Jerrah!!

by dcsince77 on Apr 24, 2011 8:37 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

that has been one of my major selling points

that with Free and Smith you have arguably the best bookend tackles in the NFL
also if the Redskins upgrade their pass rush, we better be ready
Orakpo and Aldon Smith will give me the shivers

by Archie Barberio on Apr 24, 2011 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Chia

“Shivers” is mild. I’d be sick to my stomach on the verge of chucking watching those games.

by pfloyd1 on Apr 24, 2011 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

yep

We need to be ready for Cole, Osi and Tuck too. Not to mention Jared Allen and that stud Mathews. I feel like Tyron having Houck and the best in the business Ware schoolin him everyday will help bring him along pretty fast

by dcsince77 on Apr 24, 2011 9:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I love this....
the best in the business Ware schoolin him everyday

This was brought up in the Smith vs Carimi Argument….that given a year or two vs Ware Carimi could become a good LT….

Von Miller+Demarcus Ware+Jay Ratliff+Rob Ryan=Nightmare for Opposing OC's

by I am Ironman!!! on Apr 24, 2011 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Big Uglies endorse this message

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tony Romo approves also....

Von Miller+Demarcus Ware+Jay Ratliff+Rob Ryan=Nightmare for Opposing OC's

by I am Ironman!!! on Apr 24, 2011 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

HAHA

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 24, 2011 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lets take a DE as well as OT in the first here’s how

Take Smith at #9, then trade for the Pats 17th pick (950) give them our 2nd this year (490), next years 2nd (minimum 300) and a 4th (50).

Then swap our 3rd round 71 (235) for their 3rd @ 92(132) total for trade 948, and we get 2 Premier Linemen.

by LeedsCowboys on Apr 25, 2011 2:56 AM CDT reply actions  

No, can't do

No team will accept a trade that includes a future pick, the owners already talked about it, with the CBA problems they won’t think about next year because they have to think about THIS year.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Apr 25, 2011 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

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