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Cowboys Drafting Success Primer, Part II: The Results Of The Long View

In yesterday’s first installment of our draft "Primer," I looked at the importance of long-term thinking when building a roster. In Part II, I’ll examine the most important ways this thinking can positively manifest on draft day.

In the years since Jimmy Johnson’s departure, Dallas has employed numerous draft-day strategies. They have been patient and let the draft come to them (2005); they have exercised patience and missed out on guys they had targeted (2006 and 2009); they have saturation-bombed specific positions (CB in 2000; DL in 2001; RB and CB in 2008; LB in 2009). Here's the thing: we can apply to draft strategy the old adage I've heard applied to starting quarterbacks: if you have more than one, you don’t have one.

Dallas approaches each draft with a new strategy, seemingly formed in reaction to what didn't go well the previous year. 2009: trade back and acquire depth! 2010: that failed, let's spend picks to get the guys with the highest grades! Jerry Jones is anything but patient; he tends to over-react to the most recent input--which is the epitome of short-term thinking. Thus the kind of players targeted and the way their skills are valued has changed from year to year, as has the Cowboys' strategy in the late rounds (which flip-flops from small school guys with athletic upside to less talented BCS-conference guys with big-game competition under their belts). In other words, they don’t have a long-term, global strategy, a rubric against which they can measure draft-day decisions.

Much more after the break...

Star-divide

The better drafting teams—the Packers, Eagles, Steelers, Patriots, and Colts—don’t suffer from this sort of organizational chaos. They have developed a coherent philosophy, have specific player profiles that they follow and have articulated their draft-day priorities so that they know how and when to act—and at what cost. For instance: since the beginning of the Tony Dungy era we have known precisely what kind of players the Colts are interested in: smaller, quicker front seven players, zone corners who can tackle, smart offensive linemen, usually taken in the later rounds. Under Andy Reid, Philadelphia hasn’t been afraid to spend premium picks to trade up in order to secure a player they like (Shawn Andrews in 2004; Brandon Graham last year); they also tend to collect a lot of middle to late round choices to maximize their chances of hitting on a couple of them (no better example than 5th-rounder Brett Celek).

The better drafting organizations massage the draft in order to acquire maximum value from it. In a FanPost of the Week column in early March, I championed a post in which BTB member PhilipKDick had opined that the traditional "draft value chart" is skewed, such that high picks are overvalued. As a result, "clever" teams exploit this overvaluation by trading down and getting multiple picks or trading current picks for future picks. Indeed, the Eagles and Patriots have done this masterfully in recent years, approaching each draft as merely one opportunity to accumulate draft value over the course of five to ten years. Take a look: the Patriots had ten picks in 2006 and a whopping 12 each in 2009 and 2010; the Eagles piled up 11 choices in 2005, ten in 2008 and 13 in 2010.

Many of these picks were acquired by trading a current pick for one from the next draft (or a player with some tread still left on his tires for future picks--see: Seymour, Richard). These teams are willing to trade the known present for an unknown future because they see the long view—that value is not accrued just in one draft, but over the course of multiple drafts. Of course, a team can only make long-range decisions when the coaching staff and GM have job security. It’s no coincidence that Philly and New England boast the league’s two longest-tenured head coaches. 

This strategy not only builds draft value, but brings in crucial extra picks. For even the most brilliant talent evaluators, the draft is an inexact science. There are always surprises and disappointments, not to mention holdouts, injuries, personality clashes, and the like. It’s a pretty simple equation: if 40%-60% of the players a team drafts are going to disappoint, they will increase their chances of finding guys who can play by drafting more guys—especially guys in the first three rounds.

New England plays this game expertly. In 2007, for instance, they ended up with only one selection in the first three rounds—because they embarked on a series of trades down and for future picks that ended up netting an astonishing haul: in 2008, they had an extra third-rounder; in 2009, 6 of the top 97 picks (with four second rounders) belonged to the Pats; in 2010, Belichick and Co. had five of the first 90. This year? Two picks in each of the first three rounds.  So, even though ’07 netted only the underwhelming Brandon Meriweather, the long-terms results have brought exponentially more value to the team.

The more guys a team can draft in the first two days (i.e., rounds 1-3), the more likely they are to replenish their talent base. Lets assume that to do so, an organization must find three quality players (starters or impact non-starters) in every draft. Which teams consistently bring in three or more players who fit this definition?  I’m going to use Pro Football Reference’s matrix for "Weighted Career Approximate Value" to determine whether an individual player can be considered a "successful" pick—assuming that players chosen in 2005 must have a higher WCAV than those selected in 2010. For each of the teams in question, any season with three or more "hits" will be considered a success.

Patriots:

2005: Logan Mankins; Ellis Hobbs; Nick Kaczur; James Sanders; Matt Cassel
2006: Lawrence Maroney; Dave Thomas; Stephen Gostkowski; Ryan O’Callaghan
2007: Brandon Meriweather
2008: Jerrod Mayo; Johnathan Wilhite
2009: Patrick Chung; Ron Brace; Darius Butler; Sebastian Vollmer; Brandon Tate; Julian Edelman
2010: Devin McCourty; Rob Gronkowski; Jermaine Cunningham; Brandon Spikes; Aaron Hernandez

Packers:

2005: Aaron Rodgers; Nick Collins; Brady Poppinga
2006: A.J. Hawk; Daryn Colledge; Greg Jennings; Jason Spitz; Tony Moll; Johnny Jolly
2007: Brandon Jackson; James Jones; Aaron Rouse; Korey Hall; Desmond Bishop; Mason Crosby
2008: Jordy Nelson; Jermichael Finley; Josh Sitton
2009: B.J. Raji; Clay Matthews; T.J. Lang, Brad Jones
2010: Bryan Bulaga; Morgan Burnett; Andrew Quarless; C.J. Wilson

Eagles:

2005: Mike Patterson; Reggie Brown; Todd Herremans; Trent Cole
2006: Brodrick Bunkley; Winston Justice; Max Jean-Gilles; Chris Gocong; Jason Avant; Omar Gaither
2007: Kevin Kolb; Stewart Bradley; Brent Celek;
2008: DeSean Jackson
2009: Jeremy Maclin; LeSean McCoy; Brandon Gibson; Moise Fokou
2010: Brandon Graham; Nate Allen; Clay Harbor; Jamar Chaney; Kurt Coleman

Steelers:

2005: Heath Miller; Bryant McFadden; Trai Essex; Chris Kemoeatu
2006: Santonio Holmes; Anthony Smith; Willie Colon
2007: Lawrence Timmons; LaMar Woodley; William Gay
2008: Rashard Mendenhall; Ryan Mundy
2009: Ziggy Hood; Mike Wallace; David Johnson
2010: Maurkice Pouncey; Jason Worilds; Emmanuel Sanders; Antonio Brown

Colts:

2005: Marlin Jackson; Kelvin Hayden; Dylan Gandy; Tyjuan Hagler
2006: Joseph Addai; Tim Jennings; Freddie Keiaho; Charlie Johnson; Antoine Bethea
2007: Anthony Gonzalez; Tony Ugoh; Clint Session; Keyunta Dawson
2008: Mike Pollack; Jacob Tamme; Pierre Garcon
2009: Donald Brown, Fili Moala; Jerraud Powers, Austin Collie
2010: Jerry Hughes; Pat Angerer; Brody Eldridge; Kavell Conner

A lot of very successful drafts here—and in consecutive years. In the comments section following Part I, one of our readers, tdships, noted that the Colts have averaged a staggering 4.4 contributors per draft in the Bill Polian era. Look at the Packers’ drafts; Ted Thompson has had astonishingly consistent production--no wonder they have the deepest team since the 90s Cowboys. The Pats' last two drafts make me shudder: that's a lot of good young players. Along these lines, its no wonder that all these teams are perennially in the hunt for conference and Super Bowl championships.

The Cowboys, on the other hand, have not been nearly as consistent. Using the same criteria, let’s look at the number of "hits" the Dallas braintrust has managed in the same period:

2005: Ware, Spears, Burnett; Barber; Canty; Ratiff
2006: Anthony Fasano
2007: Spencer, Free, Ball
2008: F. Jones, Jenkins, Bennett, Choice
2009: N/A
2010: Dez Bryant

We know the 2005 draft was a bonanza. Ware, Spears, Burnett, Barber, Canty and Ratliff have all had terrific careers, many far exceeding expectations for the round in which they were chosen. Furthermore, both 2007 and 2008 have satisfied our basic criteria: to hit on at least three players—and of those, three (Spencer, Free, Jenkins) have Pro-Bowl potential at important positions. Still, the top-tier drafting teams do this every year. Also note that the two best drafts herein (’05 and ’08) were those in which Dallas had traded for a future first-rounder the previous year. They twice acquired value—and, as a result, had "successful" drafts even when second-round picks failed to fulfill their promise.

But look at the other years; the players in 2006 totaled 14 starts, nine of them from Watkins’ rookie year, when he was pressed into service before he was ready. 2009’s class has amassed a grand total of four starts—all from John Phillips, when they began games in two-tight end sets. And, as I suggested in part I, 2010 has potential, but the jury remains out. Worst of all, as teams like New England and Green Bay are getting both younger AND better, the Cowboys are aging with few, if any, replacements seemingly in the fold. Consequently, I worry that Dallas isn't equipped to compete with the likes of these teams at present. To my mind, this is further evidence that they must concentrate on building for the long term--its the only way they can amass enough firepower compete at a championship level.

It remains to be seen what kind of impact Jason Garrett will make in the Cowboys' war-room. His ability to evaluate talent is less important to me (I trust Tom Ciskowsi and his guys; the Cowboys scouting department, by all insider accounts, does an excellent job evaluating players and setting up the board) than whether or not his steadying presence gives the organization the ability to adopt the kind of long-term thinking that allows them to see the draft as...wait for it: a "process." Can they accrue overall value, even if that means deferring value this year? Trade down and acquire an extra third? Trade that 2011 third rounder for a second rounder in 2012 (assuming such a trade is a viable option given the CBA troubles)? And still get the kinds of players they like?

Jimmy Johnson, the steely-eyed gambler, pioneered the draft value chart and, by doing so, revolutionized the draft. I want to see his combination of innovation and cool calculation return to the Cowboys warroom. Hopefully Garrett, one of Johnson’s smartest pupils, will do a reasonable impression of the master come Thursday—and beyond. I’ll be in the front row, watching for signs.

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We all want to see some consistency in our draft philosophy.

The only constant over the years, ie, since Jimmy left, has been JJ. It seems rational to assume that unless JJ changes, the process won’t and if the proces continues to fail, the coaching staff will take the blame and be replaced and the vicious cycle will continue. Now I rrealize JJ won’t fire himself, but we’ll either end up with another aging Al Davis at the helm of the Cowboys or the light bulb will go on and JJ will see that, unless he fields a quality product, his Palace will start to amass Cob webs.

by pfloyd1 on Apr 26, 2011 10:21 AM CDT reply actions  

Jason Garrett has been in the war room and part of the draft process

since being named OC several years ago. He’s always had input into who we draft, however, hopefully Jerry will defer to him much more now as a HC…

In Romo we Trust

by Terry on Apr 26, 2011 10:35 AM CDT reply actions  

true, but...

I think of Garrett as the good soldier type. A guy who understands and respects chain of command. When Wade Phillips was HC I think Jason was more of the observe, take note and don’t rock the boat. I’m not sure how much power he tried to have on draft day. My guess is not much more than giving his opinion when asked.

Now that he is charge, he has hopefully learned from the mistakes and successes of the coaches he’s observed from his past (Jimmy, Coughlin, Wade etc).

I too hope Jerry will defer to him much more.

"There are no traffic jams along the extra mile." ~ Roger Staubach

by TK19 on Apr 26, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree TK...

One of the first things Garrett did in taking over was the installation of dress code and the idea of building on each day to be great. He’s had this in mind but not being the HC he couldnt/wouldnt overstep his boundaries and try to influence the Whole team..

All I know is that Im extremely excited for the draft and Im very curious to see what JG has in store for us. This draft and his first camp as HC will be an exciting one.. JG will start building for greatness on Thursday.. Now we just need to get all the CBA crap over with so he can get the TEAM in so they can follow suite..

by AmericasTeamm on Apr 26, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought I read a few years ago

that JG was the deciding vote to draft Felix over Mendenhall….that he said they already had a mendenhall type player on the roster (Barber).

I do agree though that his vote should carry even more weight.

by beWARE94 on Apr 26, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I totally agree TK

I also heard Garrett was disgusted by Wade and how he ran things but he was being a good solider and keeping his mouth shut

by Archie Barberio on Apr 26, 2011 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

+10000000

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Apr 26, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wish you had been in the draft room in 2009

Imagine if, instead of trading for more picks we would have traded for picks for 2010. We then could have traded for more picks in 2011 and been sitting pretty with multiple picks in a draft that lacks superstars but has good depth.

I envy NE, I wish we could have some of the foresight they have when it comes to the draft.

I agree with you, the ’Boys always seem more concerned with the “now” instead of the future when it comes to the draft. We should do what teams like NE does, which is evaluate the draft and its players compared to previous years with an eye towards future years.

For instance, who is rated higher, Suh or Dareus? Who might be coming out in the next 2-3 years. If the draft pick you possess doesn’t hold value this year – relative to previous years or projected future years – trade it away for future picks.

This is especially true when you consider most teams trade with the idea that a 3rd round pick this year is equal to a 2nd round pick next year. If there is not a player who represents value for your 3rd round pick this year and you have an opportunity to trade for a future 2nd round pick, pull the trigger without thinking as you have already increased your draft pick wealth (i.e. a 2nd round pick is more valuable than a 3rd round pick).

It’s funny how BTB bloggers understand this concept better than the franchise. I would love to see Jerry use his cunning ways to secure multiple high picks in future drafts.

"There are no traffic jams along the extra mile." ~ Roger Staubach

by TK19 on Apr 26, 2011 10:40 AM CDT reply actions  

I envy NE, I wish we could have some of the foresight they have when it comes to the draft.

This is the quote that kills. I envy them too—and yearn for a return to the days when we will be envied for our drafts as we envy the Pats.

by rabblerousr on Apr 26, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Free Agents in NE

NE has also been very aggressive with the signing of free agents over this time. It has allowed them to be patient in the draft and acquire picks over time. When you look at the number of free agents signed from other teams from 2005 to 2010 most folks would probably shocked. During this time they signed 49 free agents from other teams. This does not include UDFA’s or trades that they made with other teams involving players. For many who say that Dallas has been to aggressive signing free agents to help fill our roster may want to rethink that.

by Birddog26 on Apr 27, 2011 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Perception

The whole draft thing is great fun but I think we get so caught up in our own opinions that we miss things. Above the Cowboys are grilled for changing their minds one year to the next (one year you call them rigid another they flex their spending ability and go after their player and they are call flippant) yet all the teams who have hit it with trades and picks do that.
You didn’t pick on the Eagles when they traded up loosing picks to “get their guy” and at the same time praising them for moving the Pats are praised for staying put and swiping guys we targetted. The only reason we are having the discussion is because the guys that were selected have become good players.
If we had selected guys who panned out as the organization had hoped then we would be on the god-list…whether we jumped around or not in the draft. Otherwise each of us feels like it was a wasted draft.
In the same time that those other 6 teams have had outstanding drafts we have hit on maybe 1.5 guys a year……That is the Scouting Department OR those who do the selecting are not listening to them and then they are the problem.
Heck, I was at the draft party in Arlington when we selected Felix and I was holding my breath for Mendenhall….but I completely missed on the 5 other backs who also are doing better than Felix. As with most things, “that is why you play the game.” I am almost ready to break out into the Jim Mora rant, “you think you know something but you don’t, and you never will…”
The draft is about Hope and the Feelings we have built up towards players we think would really help our team. We as fans can’t do a thing to make our beloved team choose any of the draftees’ we covet, so we might as well see it for the emotional ride it is and just enjoy it and continue to hope and pray that our Team picks work out beyond our expectations….and Enjoy the Trip

by LiveNDieBlue on Apr 26, 2011 11:27 AM CDT reply actions  

I'd say that the scouting Department is probably doing its job since they haven't

been fired. Those making the decisions would appear to be at fault and since JJ at the helm as GM, the buck stops with him.

by pfloyd1 on Apr 26, 2011 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

you are probably right

It just seems to me that since this is his, as in he owns it, business that he would not want to tank so many really important decisions worth millions upon millions of dollars to him.
If I had gone through 5 years worth of, let’s call it, recession while other franchises continued to hit on their draft picks, then being a worthwhile business man I would Seriously consider finding an alternative to the way I had been doing things! —millions upon millions!

So there are 3 camps at play: Scouts, Coaches/Staff, and JJ. Since he has not fired his scouts he must think the coaches are the ones not making the correct evaluations and choices when it comes to draft picks because they are the only ones showing any turn over in staffing. As a GM though it would be nice to hear him put a plan in place whereby he systematically emphasized one of the groups per year as the lead and then evaluated the quality of the draft by whether it was Scouts, Coaches or GM being the key cog in the choices come draft day.

by LiveNDieBlue on Apr 26, 2011 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree totally

some day JJ’s going to realize that the bling of the new stadium will wear off and he’d better put a winning product on the field or his business will suffer. He can’t keep living off the past glories of Tom Landry and Jimmy Johnson.

by pfloyd1 on Apr 26, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Something else to ponder...

How much of the draft was JG actually influencing? Did he have much influence on the defensive picks that were made, considering he was the OC? In quickly looking over some of the picks since ‘07 I get a count of 18 Def, 13 Off, and 2 ST players.. I dont have time to compare how the Offensive picks compare to the Defensive picks as to how they’ve panned out.. But im willing to go on a limb an say the Offensive picks worked out more often then the Defensive ones… Just a thought

by AmericasTeamm on Apr 26, 2011 11:32 AM CDT reply actions  

great article....really nice work

before there was law, there were the Cowboys!!!

by orli on Apr 26, 2011 12:56 PM CDT reply actions  

Scouts are like consultants

You can take their advice or ignore it – they get paid either way. What you do with it is the issue.

JJ is the critical factor here. In the 90’s he was arrogantly mistaken he could maintain the dynastyforever. Early 00’s he switched to desperately trying to make a big splash. Parcells introduced some discipline, but even he had lost some of his old magic.

The issues since then has been JJ’s conviction DAL has been just 1 or 2 component pieces away – and the emphasis has been on finding those – whether large or small. Unfortunately, we ignored winning draft philosophies – upgrade your talent by replacing average/good players with better and adding some developmental talent. As a result we are left with an aging, ineffective OL, a DL on the verge of being stripped by FA and major holes in the DB.

We live life forwards and understand it backwards

by tdships on Apr 26, 2011 1:16 PM CDT reply actions  

Your post is a bunch of misinformation...you tailored your supporting facts with your subjectivity.

You listed the Packers, Eagles, Steelers, Patriots, and Colts as “model” teams to emulate.

Have they been successful because they draft substantially better than everyone else, or do they have better coaching? I’ll submit to you that the most successful teams have a nice balance throughout their organization. Furthermore, I’ll submit to you that the best organizations need three main components to be successful…

1) Strong Ownership
2) Good talent acquisition.
3) Good coaching.

You fixate on just the draft so your evaluation of the Cowboys is skewed.

I could easily take apart each of those “model” teams you specified…but I’ll make my point by pointing out just one fact…take away the starting QB for each of those teams and do they still look like they draft exceptionally well? Most teams are just one pick away from being great talent evaluators.

by CaliFanInTx on Apr 26, 2011 4:18 PM CDT reply actions  

I think you need to reread

his point is actually the opposite, and the same as yours. That you have to have a franchise-wide, top-down, consistent philosophy to consistently win. The draft is the result of this philosophy, the demonstration, tangible results reflecting the philosophy. By looking at their drafts over the years is how you can deduce, working backwards, what their philosophy is.

Also, the point is not that there’s one right philosohpy, as much as that an organization has a philosophy, and sticks to it over time. It can be to draft small and quick, to always look to trade down or to future picks, to trade up for impact players-whatever, as long as they have some long-term plan.

JJ would never run a business without a long-term growth plan-but he runs the Cowboys without one. And the successful franchises are staring at him year after year, showing how it’s done..

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Apr 26, 2011 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, actually I read his post correctly.

You and rabblerousr just interpret the success/state of the Cowboys differently than I do…it doesn’t make any of us correct, but we have differing opinions/outlook on the Cowboys.

JJ would never run a business without a long-term growth plan-but he runs the Cowboys without one

That’s a contradiction…I know you are discerning that he runs the $ side of it differently than the personnel side, but I disagree with it…The guy is a self made billionaire and has done more in the last 20 years to grow the NFL than any other person in the league. Those guys have a plan. I don’t see “back and forth”…“flip flop” nature in Jerry that you perceive. I don’t always agree with the choices he’s made in the last 20 years, but I do see the logic when he does gamble.

Of the following teams that are considered a success…Packers, Eagles, Steelers, Patriots, and Colts…only the Patriots have accomplished as many Superbowls as Jerry has…I know the Packers are the flavor of the day…and they do deserve praise…but let’s not put Ted Thompson in the Hall of Fame…the Packers have more than a few holes…perhaps even more than the Cowboys. The same praise that the Packers are getting now mirror those given to the Saints last year and the Giants in 2007…we won’t be able to truly determine how well a team is built until we see them play for several years.

by CaliFanInTx on Apr 26, 2011 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree with everything you said, but I think more you're mischaracterizing his argument

But we can read it differently, in some ways it two sides of the same coin.

You’re correct that getting an amazing starting QB made a huge difference for NE/Pitt/ and Indy, but still, they compete every year. Some teams with good QB’s don’t. I’m not measuring success by SB’s, but more by being competitive, year in and out, even when on paper many are expecting your downfall. Seems like every year Philly/NE/Indy/Pitt are due for 8-8 or worse, but there they are at the end of the year, in the running.

It’s coaching, it’s the QB-but I also think it’s due to the organizations having a consistent philosophy, top to bottom, so that they can run their system year in and out. Shoot, just having a system and philosophy helps!

We could argue that forever, because it’s impossible to prove one way or another.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Apr 26, 2011 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

To be fair, the Cowboys have been very competitive the past 5 years...

..I seem to recall they have one of the best W-L records in the league in that time period (perhaps even the best). You don’t get that way without doing more than a few things correctly…

As far as “mischaracterizing his argument”, I don’t believe I did. His premise was that the Cowboys don’t have a long term strategy, but the substantiating evidence that he provides was subjective. I just took a step back and looked at our roster as a whole and by position group, then compared them to the “good” teams he referenced and didn’t see us lacking overall.I’m of the belief that our problem isn’t talent acquisition or shaky ownership, but coaching. I don’t believe our foundation is flawed, which is what he was driving at…

by CaliFanInTx on Apr 26, 2011 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Eagles have a back up that they will trade for a number one pick.

by Jonathan Stern on Apr 27, 2011 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don’ t think of the 2008 draft as a sucess by any means. I think Jenkins and Jones TOGETHER would get you maybe a third round pick.

I think Spears and Spencer are just a cut above Jags.

Bobby Carpenter was a bust.

The 2009 draft was an TOTAL disaster .

I hope everyone takes note on how the Cowboys have performed in the draft.

by Jonathan Stern on Apr 26, 2011 5:17 PM CDT reply actions  

so the 2009 draft was ok then?

by Jonathan Stern on Apr 26, 2011 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your post said it was a total disaster. I disagree with that.

There is a huge difference between “ok” and a “TOTAL disaster”.

Was 2009 bad? Yes it was. But your post comes across almost as a EMO teenager that can only goes to either 1 extreme or the other but has little to do with objectivity or facts.

by Rena on Apr 26, 2011 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Jonathan Stern, please refer to Rena’s post above in response to your previous question to me.

by CaliFanInTx on Apr 26, 2011 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

You guys are defending the 2009 draft?

A bunch of scrubs, a backup QB, and a kickoff specialist?
No picks in the 1st two rounds?
Roy Williams for a #1?
Oh, and R Brewster?
The draft who’s philosophy was, “We have soooo much talent we can waste a draft on special teams!!”

Of course, now, 2 years later, surprise, we have needs at almost every position.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Apr 26, 2011 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Read the original post...can you seriously tell me you agree with all his points?

Jenkins and Jones for a third round pick? If you believe this, I have a bridge I can sell you…

I wasn’t defending the 2009 draft…we both thought it was bad…but…

But your post comes across almost as a EMO teenager that can only goes to either 1 extreme or the other but has little to do with objectivity or facts.

This is what I was agreeing with. I take issue with “fans” that make blanket assertions that lack any objectivity.

by CaliFanInTx on Apr 26, 2011 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wasn’t saying trade Spencer and Jenkins for a 3rd round pick , I am saying that is what you might get for both of them.

Were they great choices? Yes or no??

But of course ignore the facts the Cowboys had the second best -I mean worst defense in the NFL last year.

If you wanna live in fantasy land and pretend the Cowboys draft well far be it from me to burst your bubble.

by Jonathan Stern on Apr 27, 2011 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry Jones and Jenkins.

by Jonathan Stern on Apr 27, 2011 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was only talking about that one point

He did go a little far on some of the other guys.

But Rena called 2009 OK vs. a total disaster. I’ll go w/total disaster.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Apr 27, 2011 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

He said "The 2009 draft was an TOTAL disaster ." That's all he called a disaster.

You said "Your post said it was a total disaster. I disagree with that.
There is a huge difference between "ok" and a "TOTAL disaster".

then you did say it was “bad.”

I’ll stick with total disaster myself, but it’s not worth arguing over, just wanted to show you how your stand could be confusing.

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Apr 27, 2011 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really what do the Cowboys have to show for the 2009 draft? Maybe I am missing someone?

Yep describing the 2009 draft as a “total disaster” is really an overstatement.

You tell me recent Cowboy draft sucess stories other than Doug Free and Dez Bryant?

by Jonathan Stern on Apr 27, 2011 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

don't count Dez yet...................

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on Apr 27, 2011 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Cowboys are in the shape they are in now because they haven’t had a successful draft since 2005 (Jury is still out on the 2010 class) .

End of conversation.

by Jonathan Stern on Apr 27, 2011 12:20 AM CDT reply actions  

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Headed in the Right Direction...(Delusional or Reality)
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X's and O's... More Basics... Cover 3...
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Cowboys players under 25 are more valuable than Eagles and Giants

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Beat the Pass Rush
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Romo and the Super Bowl Question
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A LETTER TO MIKE JENKINS...
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How much does pass rush matter?

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