Koolaid? Cool, please.
by Chandus on May 1, 2011 1:29 PM CDT
Email
PrintHere in Cowboys Nation, there's people that are called realists and the others are koolaid drinkers. Some are right and the others aren't and just because some call themselves realists, it doesn't make them right.
I don't look at a Draft and say: they should have done this or they should have acquired that. There's no purpose in that, what I do is try to use reason and understand why they made those picks. Ifs and buts are completely useless, if you disagree about the Front Office way of conducting business you're allowed to boycott the team and stop buying merchandise and game tickets.
There's just no purpose in trying to act tough, taxi driver like: "You talkin' to me?".
So, that's what this post is all about, I'll look at the Cowboys picks and I'll try to use the little reasoning that I have to explain the first few picks.
Tyron Smith, best Tackle prospect in 2011.
That's how it is. Look at his tools:
- Footwork? Check.
- Light feet? Check.
- Hands usage? Check.
- Technique? Check.
- Power? Check.
- Explosion? Check.
- Football smarts? Check.
- Capable of being mean? Check.
Is he consistent in doing all that? No, the guy needs development. But, every rookie needs development. Even a Joe Thomas, IMO the most NFL ready OLineman that I've seen in the past few years, needed development. The jump up in performance is too great and they need to improve in everything they do.
So, how much work does Smith needs? He was the 9th pick for a reason, he needs some work, but not as much and that's one of the reasons why he's expected to play in the right side for the time being. The other reasons are that he's football smart and that he knows his capabilities.
When his footwork has failed him, because of a slow reaction or because his light feet moved him one step ahead of where he should be, the guy doesn't tend to get beat, he reacts and uses his hands or his explosion to move back in front of the DLineman. It's the use of his different tools that makes him the best tackle prospect IMHO, the guy showed that he gets it and he's such a good athlete that he makes it look easy.
Tyron Smith is going to be good. How good? It depends on how consistent he can get.
No DLine? It has everything to do with Tyron.
This Draft wasn't a matter of taking a DLineman just for the sake of taking one, the Cowboys had 2 options in the 1st Round, RT or DLineman and they went with RT. As soon as they made that choice, they forgot about taking a DE unless someone fell to them. After 12 DLineman were selected in the top 50 picks (DLineman, not OLB prospects) there wasn't much of an option. Unless you're talking about an option that doesn't fit...
So, what's a fit? The Cowboys didn't want a NT, they have 2 (Ratliff and Brent). So, they were after a 3-4 DE that could play some interior DLineman in pass rush situations. So, what's the mold of such a guy? I've heard that's someone that's taller than 6'2.
I'll say bull. The Chargers run a 3-4, they went after Liuget and as far as I've heard, they plan on playing him at End. It's more than height, it's also arm length. DLineman are creatures of leverage, the lower their stance, the more force they can apply. Their opponents tend to be Tackles and Guards, and you want prospects with long arms for those positions, because you can use your arms to stand up the DLineman and force him out of his leverage position.
So, the Cowboys wanted a certain body type and long arms (above 33 inches). If you wanted Marvin Austin or Lawrence Guy raise your hand. Those guys aren't fits.
And the Cowboys like something else. Look at the Cowboys picks: academic honors, team captains, hard workers, high characters and clean individuals. If you wanted Kenrick Ellis and Christian Ballard, you can also raise your hand. Those weren't fits, either.
This is why I kept harping on the need to take a DLineman in the 1st and why I wasn't surprised that they didn't make a DLineman pick, I wasn't expecting one. It was a matter of DLineman in the 1st or not at all. RT was a bigger need in the eyes of the Front Office.
Injury prone guys? No, I'll call them unlucky.
Sean Lee isn't injury prone just like Terence Newman isn't, either. They aren't Chad Pennington, a guy that has gone through nearly as many shoulder surgeries as years of football in the NFL and College... That's what injury prone means, IMO, a guy that has chronic problems in a certain area of their bodies.
Sean Lee had problems with his knee in College. Quad and hamstring injuries with the Cowboys. Is the guy injury prone because he can't keep himself healthy?
If you have trained at a high level, you know how strong and fragile your body can really be, so maybe, there's more to this that meets the eye. Maybe Milke Woicik has something to say about this...
Bruce Carter? A project or an actual need?
As I said before, I haven't watched full NC games and paid attention to him on an every down basis so I can't say much about him other than what many sources have claimed, so I won't go into that. What I can tell you is that Butch Davis runs a wait-and-react D, so if you're seeing highlights of Carter and you are seeing someone that waits and waits and then moves, often late, to a play, then there's more to it than just a player that seems to be hesitant.
Remember Bradie James and Bill Parcells. Parcells ran the same Defense and James called himself a dancing elephant that couldn't make plays because he had to wait.
Rob Ryan runs a different kind of animal, he runs a choreographed kind of Defense in which the LBs have to play according to several keys, they are nearly always on the move looking to make plays. In the few instances in which you see a LB that isn't moving it's because he's shadowing a player on Offense, waiting for him to make their move, when Cleveland played the Patriots they respected Woodhead with a LB in close to every snap.
Another thing that I can tell you is this: if the Cowboys hadn't made this pick, then the Cowboys would have been hard pressed to make a pick in a deep and talented class in 2012, probably a 1st Round pick.
Why? Because the need would have been desperate. What happened last year? With an injured Lee, a player like Brooking was forced to play 100% of the snaps in several games. A pretty sight that was not. That both starting LBs (James and Brooking) were forced to miss several weeks of practice, only taking part in rehearsals with no contact, due to knee injuries was an even worse sight.
I think that Carter is going to play in 2011. If they're lucky he's going to play in a limited number of snaps, if they aren't lucky he's going to start and often. That he appears to be a good prospect could mean that a case of bad luck may turn into good level of play right away.
Area blocking? Athletic big uglies are good at that.
Look at that play, it's a Tank set (1WR, 2TEs and 2Backs) focused on the right side, Leonard Davis explodes to the 2nd level and takes the MLB, Colombo moves behind him and takes the DT, Bennett and Witten initially double team the LEnd with Witten moving on towards the SLB. The combination of the FB and Kosier makes it an Area Blocking play, those guys have to read the position of the defenders and make their blocks, the RB has to wait for their blocks and decide the area that he's supposed to follow.
Barry Sanders would approve of such execution. Marshall Faulk would do it, too. Sanders had an OLine unit that could Area block really well, they were bad Drive blockers and Sanders suffered because he couldn't score if he didn't in big plays. Faulk could score at will, not because he was the better back, but because his OLine with the Rams could do both, Area and Drive blocking.
I think that Garrett is looking for that kind of balance, we know that Free is capable of both styles, I think that Tyron Smith will be capable of both, we know that Kosier is an accomplished Area blocker, Davis can do both if his switch is ON and Gurode is purely a Drive blocker. That both 3rd day OLine picks are athletes that may be capable of both styles isn't surprising.
But you also need a back that can run in both styles.
DeMarco Murray. Taking away the job from Smash and Tash.
Again, I've to say that I'm sorry that I can't add much more than what's said by the many draft sources, I haven't looked at him and can't add something original about him. What I can say is this:
- Marion Barber was a painful Area blocking back, not because he delivered pain, but because he wasn't fast or quick enough. He was a source of positive yardage in those plays because of his vision and ability to take and absorb the 1st contact.
- Tashard Choice has ability, but he's a master of none of the areas that make a good RB. He can catch, he's quick, fast, tough and he can block. But he isn't a consistent pass catcher, route runner and blocker. And he isn't quick, fast and tough enough.
That opened the door for Murray, the team is showing their plan, they have no confidence in Choice and Barber is as good as gone. As fans we knew that RB was a need, but we didn't know what's going on in Garrett's mind. To me, the OLine picks and this pick, tell me a lot about the future of the Cowboys.
If that future is going to be good, I don't know, I just think that I understand the reasoning.
The Draft gets a B, in 3 years we will know if it becomes an A or D.
Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.
90 comments
|
27 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I also understand the rationale for the picks, and I approve.
Excellent write-up, Chandus, and rec’d.
by One.Cool.Customer on May 1, 2011 2:43 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Excellent write-up, Chandus. Rec'd
"Everybody wants something but nobody wants to pay the price" - Michael Irvin
Like the article
I just disagree with what they did in the draft (and im not talking about high character guys I like that) however your statement that Newman isnt injury prone has me scratching my head and wondering if you have been watching the past 8 years.
A guy that has many different kind of injuries
Groin, ankle, knee, hamstring, shoulder, etc.
It isn’t a matter of a guy suffering from the same injury time and time again, his problems are many, one example would be that his ankles weren’t made to turn sideways. Or his knee.
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
Okay
you said in your post that he isnt injury prone, then you reply to me and say “his problems are many” and you list all of the injuries he has had. Sorry I didnt know you had to have the same injury over and over again to be called injury prone, I just thought you had to keep getting injured to be injury prone.
It's a lot like Adrian Peterson
Coming into the NFL, he stood right there with Calvin Johnson as the top prospect overall and for some the best without discussion. Why was he there for the 7th pick for the Vikings?
It wasn’t a matter of all 6 of those teams not needing a RB, it was a matter of a red flag, injuries. There was a belief that he wouldn’t be able to stay healthy in the NFL and teams passed on him.
That was stupid, because for the most part he has found ways to keep himself healthy on his way for nearly 6000 yards in 4 years. If he has a healthy 12 year career, the guy may very well give Emmitt a run for the title.
What happened with him? An injury prone player forgot about how he had to injure himself?
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
Think about this....
Jim Brown played 9 years and gained over 12000 yards rushing w/106 TDs and 2500 receiving w/20TDs. Oh yeah they only played 12 games a year back then.
Lock n Load
yeah ....
i have no idea why your comparing Petersen to Newman, I really dont see how it is relevant. Newman is constantly injured and rarely plays all 16 games therefore he is injury prone.
Peterson used to be "injury prone"
As far as I know, he didn’t had a year in College in which he didn’t suffer an injury or 2 that forced him to rest a game or 2.
That’s my point. You should look into that.
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
Again
relevance? I’m sure your right about his college days but guess what (and im sure i speak for all cowboy fans) I dont care about his college injury history just his days as a cowboy.
Relevance?
Injuries are as much a matter of luck as it’s a matter of conditioning and preparation, at least IMO.
That happened for Peterson in College, were he was considered injury prone, how can you control someone rolling over your leg from behind? You can’t. You can only try to control what you see, and that can also fall short due to the speed of the game.
As I’ve said, Pennington was injury prone (shoulder), Cadillac Williams was injury prone (knee). Someone that has many different kind of injuries is either injury prone or unlucky. I just don’t know where the line is drawn.
Have you trained your body at a high level?
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
Your first sentence sums it up.
LUCK is the biggest factor, along with conditioning and preparation.. When I played football, that was the biggest thing. Right place at the right time. We had a kid who hurt his knee freshman year, and hurt his other knee sophomore year (early each year) and rehabbed all junior year. He was in top shape coming into senior year, and the first game of the year, he broke his wrist.hand in 6 place, needed screws, and the whole 9 yards. He was very unlucky, but I wouldn’t say that he was injury prone. Each injury was a freak accident-someone landing on him the wrong way, things like that. Luck can change.
"Wade is no longer the coach." Jason Garrett
yes and no
Luck is a factor, but I believe AP was injury prone and will be again. Peterson plays like Barber – he goes through players. Running over Dbs is one thing, running over LBs shortens careers.
Newman is getting up their in age, he may have similar speed to when he started, but his body does’t react the way it did a few years ago so he breaks down. He has become injury prone. Not too many RBs get a chance to remain in the league long enough to become injury prone – nobody will touch Emmitts’s record
RB and DB
are two different animals! Although there’s no reason for Newman to be in those circumstances cause he rarely hits maybe he is a but unlucky. DBs go out cause of lack of speed which he still has! Why would u waste a CB pick!
Great job
I am not the draft enthusiast that many on here claim to be but I was shocked at the overly negative reaction on this website. In fact, this site had by far the harshest grades on the draft.
When I see multiple “experts” on ESPN, NFL.com or our front page writers at BTB giving out B or A grades and then I see all the comments tearing the draft to shreds, that is people drunk on haterade. I will put my faith in the Cowboys this year because, if nothing else, Wade Phillips is not here and JG is in charge.
Superb post, rec’d.
nice post, i don't liked the murray pick initially but i calmed down
my fav picks were bruce carter and josh thomas, and now i even think i’m liking a lot demarco murray, didn’t know he was good blocking, that gonna be pretty useful
Not only good at blocking...
He can run routes like a wr, he can also catch out of the backfield. He is more complete than Felix. I have watched him a few times, and against the Longhorns too. He is going to definitley contribute to our team.
F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...
Great post, enjoyed reading it.
I especially like how you explained the difference between drive/area blocking and how that correlates to the type of lineman we drafted this year.
From some of the analysis I’ve read, David Arkin seems to be a younger version Kyle Kosier. Would you agree or disagree with this statement?
I would say that....
However Arkins is not quite as athletic as Koiser is….
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
by I am Ironman!!! on May 1, 2011 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions
If you can get your hands on film from the Shrine Bowl game
Do it.
You’re going to see Arkin moving around, a lot like Kosier does, but this guy is MEAN, it’s obvious that he enjoys giving DLineman and LBs a taste of the turf.
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
Fan post of the Week Material Chandus
Awesome stuff Rec’d
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
I always really enjoy reading your analysis, Chandus.
Count me in the Cowboys kool-aide camp. Tyron Smith was no surprise at all, and you gave the clearest explanation of why the Cowboys chose him. I was shocked at the Bruce Carter pick, but they immediately started showing highlights on NFL network, and he really exploded into the picture. The dude can flat run.
Demarco Murry surprised me again, but my kid leaped out of his chair, and started raving about him. Then he pulled up a wide range of youtube footage, and immediately went to a particular one. That 5 minute video was amazing. I really like Murray, and disagree with anyone who says he’s like Felix or Choice. He’s a different kind of runner. He runs strong, he fights off tackles, he has open field speed, he blocks, and he’s got soft hands.
There’s not much out there on Arkin, but again, I’m a kool-aide kind of guy. Finally, I didn’t understand all the anger about no safety or DE. We all agreed a veteran safety was the way to go months ago. And DE, when we didn’t draft one I guess I thought the team was going to give the young guys a chance. Also, of course, we’d look for one in FA. Also, it seemed like ESPN and NFL Network were both very complimentary of our picks, which is unusual. That alone made me like the draft.
rec’d.
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
I couldn't agree with you more Wolf...
“I, Aaron Eisenman, am a Kool-Aidaholic, and proud of it!”
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
by I am Ironman!!! on May 1, 2011 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Great stuff Chandus
"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it's so incredible, it's unbelievable."
- Tom Landry
One of the best I've read Chandus
Great, in-depth analysis, man. Rec’d.
I agree on some of it, some not so much, but I definitely think this draft will end up an A or a D…we won’t know for a while.
I have noticed a new resurgence in Cowboy hating in 2007, which can only mean one thing- We're back.
Well lookey here Chandus. What happened?
You championed a defensive end as the ultimate need, even debated with me on why another ILB who was mobile, could cover and rush the passer was not a priority at the top of the draft. Now you approve of the Carter pick? I’m shocked ;-)
You championed a defensive end as the ultimate need
Sure I did. But, if you look closely to everything I said back then, I also said that I wouldn’t be surprized if the pick was Tackle due to the dire need at the position.
In my mind, the pick was always DE or RT. I wanted an End because I thought that there wouldn’t be anymore after the 1st Round and made myself clear about it. As it turns out, the team felt that they wouldn’t find a better Tackle than Smith.
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
True that, still you chastized my opinion of taking Von Miller and moving him inside which is practically what we’re doing with Carter albeit a round later.
That’s because we have differing opinions, you can’t compare Miller and Carter, they are very different players. Miller is a pass rusher coming from the edge, I don’t think that his skills translate well to working in the middle. Meanwhile, Carter looks like a fit inside, like someone that Ryan is going to have moving around in coverage and run support.
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
They’re both 240, maybe a little light to hold up on the edges. While Miller has been used more as a pass rusher there’s nothing to say he couldn’t rush from the inside and he definitely has good coverage skills. While I digress that Carter does seem like a more natural fit inside than Miller my reasoning was more in line with what the front office saw. Besides if Carter had been healthy and was used differently at UNC it would be the same concept of using a first round undersized OLB with great speed ad coverage skills and moving him inside.
While Miller has been used more as a pass rusher
But you’re talking about a round peg in a square hole, Miller would be a waste inside. He’s at his best when he’s working in the edge.
That was the gist of my opinion. Not me not thinking that Miller could do it, but the waste of him inside.
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
To my eye a linebacker on the inside who wasn’t a liability in coverage was a glaring need and JG / RR apparently agreed.
Another thing that I can tell you is this: if the Cowboys hadn’t made this pick, then the Cowboys would have been hard pressed to make a pick in a deep and talented class in 2012, probably a 1st Round pick.
I didn’t think that they would take an ILB this year due to the deep and talented crop next year, I can, and could, see the need for a guy in the position, but wasn’t one of my priorities.
If I had my way, I would have traded the with Jacksonville to take Cameron Jordan and then from the 40 I would have traded up to the late 1st to take one of Carimi or Sherrod. That, would have meant no ILB prospect in the top 2 Rounds.
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
one of the reasons I wanted Miller
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
by I am Ironman!!! on May 1, 2011 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions
After 12 DLineman were selected in the top 50 picks (DLineman, not OLB prospects) there wasn’t much of an option.
I’m waiting for the people who were going on and on about how Dallas could draft OL in the first round because DL was so deep there’d be some great DL available at 40 to start acknowledging they were wrong … that all the DL were gone.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on May 1, 2011 8:12 PM CDT reply actions
I just see a bunch of Spears 2.0s I can see Fairley being disruptive because he’s next to Suh but if any of these guys get more than 4 sacks I’ll be surprised. Jordan, Watt and Dareus are the other ones I think will be disruptive DL.
Von Miller, Watt, Quinn. Those were the guys I liked.
I’m thrilled Dallas didn’t take the other guys.
I’m just wondering if we’ll see an acknowledgement that the logic that I was being badgered with for the last 2 months was faulty.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on May 1, 2011 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m with you there I was huge on Miller or Quinn at 9 early on, and later would have really liked Watt as a trade down option (even though it turns out that wasn’t feasible).
I wanted Miller from the start....
Was pissed that he went #2…..still don’t know why Denver took him when Dareus was a better fit….
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
by I am Ironman!!! on May 1, 2011 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, if you're talking about me
You’re barking at the wrong tree, I also wanted an End with a 1st Round pick, my preferance was always Cameron Jordan, though.
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
Ok, we were both right, though I have to admit that I like Kenrick Ellis, but his past made him untouchable.
I prefer the current policies of no problematic characters – drugs.
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
I think its athleticism and production first followed by character and tenacity, and that’s why we will be contenders in 2 or 3 years, less if this year is uncapped.
Good article...
Nice to hear a change of pace article instead of the doom and gloom articles that I have been reading. I say let the staff do what they need to do. Jason Garrett put together a good staff. I think we can trust his judgement on the players too. Im sure that he has consulted the respective coaches to get their opinions. Jason Garrett brings a controlled disciplined approach to his regime, and I am all about it. Let’s toast to being respectable again.
F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...
anyone else notice this about BC 54 (the new one that is)
first off i like the guy. great speed, explosiveness, hops, etc… and i think he will end up a stud for us under Ryan.
the thing that concerns me is his point of attack. he gets to the player very quickly, but then grabs hold and swings his body/pulls with his arms to get them down. i rarely saw him put his shoulder down and drive through the guys stomach (just based on 30 minutes of highlight tapes). i dont know if its a bad thing or a good thing and really i dont care as long as he gets the guy down, but does anyone notice this or know more about it?
in the end i didnt hate the draft, and i didnt love the draft. i believe it will end up as one of our better ones, but that isnt saying much. Tyron is 20 and a real bright spot hopefully more many many years. but we still have a lot to fill in FA.
If
Someone were looking to unleash an offensive style something like what’s mentioned in Bermystar’s write-up (here), would it be defensible more by a RR-style defense or a more conventional, a more classic, defensive philosophy?
Asking here, as this article along with Bermy’s, your earlier ones on RR’s D, various other articles in whole or part, things people have commented in various places, resurrected something I’d put aside.
You’ve all rattled something loose in my head that’s been bouncing around, evolving, getting sorted out maybe, since mid-last-season, through the coaching tumult, the DC selection process, all our trying to figure out what’s maybe going on, if anything. Don’t want to say anything quite yet, look like a bigger idiot than I do, or Koolaid drinker or whatever silly-ass label (other than the village idiot I’m more than pleased to self-admit to), but I’d sure appreciate any answer(s) to that question. Just something I can’t put to rest and am kind of looking for some validation or refutation on the intial supposition before letting the thought seek fulfillment.
Question Tan...
Are we talking about this:
Dez “88 n Proud” Bryant on one side, Miles “to Go” Austin on the other, Murray who is noted to have exceptional hands and breakaway spead in the slot and Felix ‘da Cat" Jones in the backfield with the same hands and speed, and the ever reliable J Witt roaming as he does best, with two of the more athletic tackles in the league on the line that’s a league leading offense.in particular? or something more specific? like this:
a “12” set (which is a 1 TE, 2 RB, 2 WR set with Witten, Miles and Dez, with Jones and Murray. As this is a fairly standard set, most “D’s” will be in a base set…..However with Murray’s (and to a certain extent Jones’) receiving ability you could motion either Jones or Murray out, thus creating in effect a 3 WR set. Now from that Witten motion into the backfield as a “FB”. Now is it a run? is it a Pass? can you imagine the confusion created?…..just wanting to make sure of what you are asking for….
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
by I am Ironman!!! on May 1, 2011 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Not those in particular or isolation, no one offensive set or thing alone, but more all the varied comments identifying a, shall we call it, somewhat fluid and dynamic offensive philosophy and gameplan. Those you slected were part of the whole of the comments and points people have made, but there are so many, so varied, identifying them would mean reading months of writing, Oz. Not trying to be evasive, it’s just there are so many things, some not even as forwardly or overtly stated as that, Bermy’s and others, but simply traded comments that lead to trains of thought and things like that.
But to keep it simple, yes, those kinds of things, but no one in particular. So, not as particular or specific, but based on the specifics, the details. It’s the forest, or offensive strategy, to those trees, or tactical details, you’re presenting as examples. If that makes sense.
What I’m getting at asking is neither offensively or defensively restrictive in nature, but starts with the question: Is that style offense (if it exists) better (ie. more effectively) defended by a RR-style D than a conventional defensive philosophy?
You have to look at the Patriots games
Against Cleveland and Jets.
The Patriots O was complex, without Randy Moss they were forced into being hard to read and those teams did a really good work of keeping Belichick and Brady in their toes.
So, your answer is yes, we have a Ryan in charge, if he has the pieces in place (big IF, I’m not sure), his D will be good.
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
I'm afraid you misunderstand my question, C
I understand what you’re saying, have looked to those games, your take on the Ryan D, etc. And in a way you are answering my question, I think. It’s not whether the Ryan D will be good or not. It’s: Is Rob’s D style the most effective to deal with JG’s style of offense?
Using the Pats as an example works, sort of. Tough to find one O or D that mirrors another, but good choice and we’re lucky those examples exist. At least, I am.
I think you’re saying yes. Pieces, players and the rest aside. Thanks for the feedback.
so the philosophy as opposed to individual sets..
Well from what I can see Dallas is attempting to create an offense similar to RR’s defense. in that through the use of varied personnel groupings he creates confusion in the defense thus creating mismatches that can be exploited…
as far as which would be better at defending it? That is hard to determine, however I would say that a well disciplined defense, that has played together for an extended period of time (regardless of scheme) would be less susceptible to said Offense… as to which scheme by its self?…I would say RR’s scheme would have the upper hand, due to it own complexity…does that answer your question Tan?
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
by I am Ironman!!! on May 1, 2011 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, sort of, as much as it can be, I guess
Yeah, the philosophy or style more so than the individual sets or players. Call it the gameplan style, maybe. I’m not looking at it so much as creating similar O and D, as much as can that style D defend against that style Offense more effectively than conventional styles (be it 4-3/3-4 front, cover-2 variations, zone/man, what have you).
btw, just what in the blazes would someone call one of the Ryan “exotic” sets? Better yet, the mix-match of the conventional(?)/exotic these 2 hellions are fiddling with.
OK I think I see what you are saying....
Well from what I can see Dallas is attempting to create an offense similar to RR’s defense. in that through the use of varied personnel groupings he creates confusion in the defense thus creating mismatches that can be exploited…
Another way to say that would be, if the Giants are a Heavy weight "Brawler"style Offense, and the Eagles are a middleweight,“boxer” style Offense, then Dallas’ offense is evolving into a “pressure point” style where Dallas finds the weakest part of a Defense and uses its personnel to take advantage of it .
The great thing is this:
I honestly don’t think there is a scheme that could defend Garretts offense, for example- lets take the Giants(conventional 4-3) and the Jets(exotic 3-4):
Giants- great Dline with good LB’s and Below Average CB’s but good Safeties( i think I got that right).. against this “D” you will seealot of WR screens to set up one on ones down the field against the CB’s….
Against the Jets, who LB core isn’t the greatest, you will see more RB action in the passing game (screens, flare routes, Motions to the slot….) that forces the LB’s to play an active role, as opposed to simply "helping the CB’s and DL…..
Regardless of Scheme, if your Defensive personnel are lacking in an area, Garretts Offense will find it, and exploit it. and that is the great thing, Garrett doesn’t attack the Scheme, he attacks the personnel……a little closer to what you were wanting Tan?….
in answer to this:
just what in the blazes would someone call one of the Ryan "exotic" sets? Better yet, the mix-match of the conventional(?)/exotic these 2 hellions are fiddling with.
I’ve heard it called “psycho set”……seems to fit
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
by I am Ironman!!! on May 2, 2011 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Again, sort of
It’s not a matter of what I’m wanting per se. I don’t know what it is I am wanting and would be a-ok with being confronted with something that wasn’t what I wanted, something that caused complete dismissal of the sequence of thoughts leading me down a path seeking what may be going with the Cowboys in terms of overall team and gameplan strategies. Dammit, if any of that could possibly make sense.
Much of what you’re saying is part of it, Oz. Part of the whole. You’re talking mid-level tactical detail and mid-level strategic on the Offensive side, and they both must be considered together, but I guess what I’m thinking is more general, not as specific and concerned with the combination of Offense and Defense in a broader perspective. Something tells me the only way I can get an answer is to match JG’s Offense against RR’s Defense, let them battle it out, get some evidence that way and compare it to the more conventional defenses we face. Since that ain’t gonna happen…
So, for getting the JG Offense vs Ryan D, in an actual game, closest is likely (certainly?) to be opening night vs the Jets. Now, who do we play that’s like or a somewhat similar test of our O going up against Rob’s D? Anybody? Those are the key games for me this season (aside from the always critical Div games). Closest I come up with is: Bolts in pre-season: close, but not really a valid test; Pats: if they’re playing a lot of the 1/2 RB/TE stuff, mixing in the receiver sets, things like that, playing dynamic, not straight-forward; possibly Philly. These are possibly my evidence games. What’re Tampa and Detroit’s O’s schemed like, anybody know?
As for the “psycho”, yeah, I recall hearing/reading that around too. Seems fitting. Naturally it would to me. Psycho Swarm. That’s the word I’ve been looking for, swarm. Hornet’s nest, yeah, hornets. That’s where I’ve seen it before.
Ahhh, to hell with it. Just going to leave it sit, fester a while. Makin’ me crazier than I already am.
Just to point out
i rarely saw him put his shoulder down and drive through the guys stomach
from what I understand Carter had a bad habit of “overpursuing” ie he would fly at 100 MPH to the ball carrier only to overshoot slightly, thus not allowing him to “drive through the guy”…While not a good thing, it is correctable with coaching….
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
What I saw in Carters highlights
was a guy who was covering much ground to make plays from odd angles. He made lotsa open field tackles and seemed to track down some from behind.
It’s one thing to break down into picture perfect form right in front of the line, ala Ray Lewis, another in using great speed in the flat to track a guy down at an angle at high speed.
Interesting and well thought out article Chandus.
Though I do not agree with a lot of your theories I can definitely understand your point of view.
Wars are won in the trenches and we need some new big uglies!
And I understand yours
This isn’t a matter of disagreeing just for the gusto of it.
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
Since my name attracts attention, here's my grade from another post. Not ripping the draft, but not putting your overly optimistic spin on it either, Chandus:
Being a realist, the only true grade is “Incomplete.” But what would be the point of that?
We’re here for fun and opinions. I’ll get my final grade like I do as a teacher, by averaging the "tests" the Cowboys took throughout the draft. It’s late, so comments will be minimal.
Round 1, Smith: B He was probably the best choice there. The only way to get an A would have been working out a trade down and getting 2 top players for one. I think JJ tried. He didn’t find a partner. OL is the key to success, but this guy looks too lean (Alex Barron-like, ugh) and is young and raw. We’ll have to see how he develops.
Round 2, Carter: I graded tough in round 1, I’ll be kinder here and go with a B. The "highlight" videos show a tendecy to arm tackle at the legs or shoulders. He’ll get eaten up if he’s afraid to hit. But, love that speed. A gamble that could pay off or have us screaming in 2 years. By the way, when some say "he was top 15 before the injury…" did you see this class? That may say more about this year’s weak group of players than him.
(Ten years from now I doubt we’re talking about too many HoFamers from 2011…)
Round 3, Murray: Dude. The highlights look great, but his rushing stats are ordinary. RB’s can be found anywhere these days. Pass catching and a returner? In the 3rd?
A solid D. Huge mistake.
Round 4, Arkin: I can’t argue with more OL, and the interior is important. Is this guy good? Who knows, man. Small school, but captain and Acad. All-American. Sometimes guys like this turn into key pieces. Sometimes they’re Robert Brewster. C
Round 5, Thomas: Hey, a DB! What a concept! For a 5th rounder this guy sounds good. But who’s been watching Buffalo? At this round, though, a B
Round 6, Harris: Another DB, a DL, even more OL. Backup QB. Any decent kickers? "You can never have enough LB’s in a 3-4." Who knows, sometimes these guys stick and become starters. As long as it’s not a TE or WR, it’s all good….NOOOOO!!! D
Round 7: You think I’m going to analyze a 7th round FB? Hey, it’s late. But I’ll say thi, he doesn’t have a cool Eastern European name like Gronk and Hynoski, so he can’t be THAT good.
Final Grade on picks: 2.2, or a C+. That’s the fair, unbiased grade.
Intangibles: Character. Team Speed. OL. These were what I was looking for, and they were all met. Not met: A big hitter on D. Boy, could this D use a guy who hits, who loves to hit, who plays clean but wants to lay people out. A young Roy Williams, version 1.0. Also, stocking some talent at DB and OL (as opposed to RB and WR)-definitely not met.
These balance out, so no extra credit, but no penalty points either. Grade unchanged.
Tell me where I’m being overly mean or pessmistic. Just keeping it real, and there’s no need to draft a guy who averaged 4.3 yards / carry iin the No-Defense Big 12 last year at pick #3. Period.
And I’m more right than you. Anyone can say that at this time. Let’s check back in 3 years, OK? When Murray has NOT torn up the NFL, when our OL is NOT saved by some late-round draft picks, as you’re hoping.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
Ok, first thing first
Thanks for your comment, I’m a strong believer of conversation-discussion and one with someone that doesn’t have a firm opinion, but one that shifts like the mood of an unstable person is no fun.
Since my name attracts attention
Sorry, but just because you call yourself realist it doesn’t mean that I was talking to you. A lot of people has been negative about the Draft and they have made comments like yours, that they’re right. I could have called them negatives instead of realists, I really wasn’t taking a shot towards a single individual.
Being a realist, the only true grade is "Incomplete." But what would be the point of that?
Yeah, that’s why I called this Draft a B that may change towards an A+ or D in a few of years. I understand that they took some risks and those may come back to haunt them, but they can also work.
OL is the key to success, but this guy looks too lean (Alex Barron-like, ugh)
Don’t compare him with Barron, please. That’s a completely unfair, Barron had questions about his toughness and by then there was already talk about how he can look like a T-Rex in the edge. You won’t find someone talking about that regarding Smith. His biggest flag is consistency and years of production.
The “highlight” videos show a tendecy to arm tackle at the legs or shoulders.
Sure, a lot of what I saw in the highlight videos are questionable at best, but I told you what I know, Butch Davis had them playing a read-and-react D, when you’re playing that kind of D you’re banking on players doing anything possible to do their jobs, even if it isn’t pretty. If you’re in a bad position, but you react quickly and make a play in a bad angle, beauty contests can kiss my ahem.
By the way, when some say “he was top 15 before the injury…” did you see this class?
Not sure how that’s a bad thing. During the whole offseason we kept hearing that the only true LB that had a chance of being selected in the 1st Round was Akeem Ayers and that there was a chance that he would fall out of it. If there was talk about Carter being worthy of top 15 talk, I’m not sure that I can’t take that seriously. Analysts were spot on when we talk about this LB class.
The highlights look great, but his rushing stats are ordinary. RB’s can be found anywhere these days. Pass catching and a returner? In the 3rd?
One name for you, Jahvid Best. I don’t think that the current Lions are the joke that they used to be. And in 2 years they spent a 1st in Best and a 2nd in Leshoure. I don’t know, if 3rd Round pick is capable of producing a 1000 combined yards per year, I would feel inclined to say that he’s a success.
From what I’ve heard and the Cowboys plans (OLine – athletes), it seems to me that it’s pretty likely that Murray can have a combined 1000.
Round 4, Arkin: I can’t argue with more OL, and the interior is important. Is this guy good? Who knows, man. Small school, but captain and Acad. All-American. Sometimes guys like this turn into key pieces. Sometimes they’re Robert Brewster. C
I agree. A C is the average between A and F. The guy can turn into both, but out of the little that I’ve seen (Shrine Bowl) I like what I’ve seen. He looks like a mean and bigger Kyle Kosier.
Round 6, Harris: Another DB, a DL, even more OL. Backup QB. Any decent kickers? “You can never have enough LB’s in a 3-4.” Who knows, sometimes these guys stick and become starters. As long as it’s not a TE or WR, it’s all good….NOOOOO!!! D
Which DB? Kendrick Burney? DeAndre McDaniel? Which DLineman? Lawrence Guy (32 inch arms and 6’4 length)? I really like the pick, the guy has a chance as returner and of taking the work out of Hurd and Ogletree. In the 6th Round there’s very little than you can do and I wanted a wideout in the last 3 Rounds since January when I made my first mock.
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
Yea!!! Made it. Finally. At last. Recognition.
…with someone that doesn’t have a firm opinion, but one that shifts like the mood of an unstable person is no fun.
Alluded to by one of the big-wigs, the BTB widely-respected high-honchos, friend to kings and common man alike, admired by womenfolk and protector of small animals. Why, it’s near-OCC-like.
Even my unstableness, though I like to think of it more as being a horse not yet broken, especially to indoors and polite company. Instability rocks.
Maybe, or maybe not
Famous for sure, perhaps even infamous. Or the exact opposite, one might think. Or one might not.
Oh, a conundrum. A mystery even. Nay, an enigma. Possibly not at all though. If anything, clear as day. Depending on your state of mind and/or consciousness. Feasibly neither. Is that even feasible?
I think I need some therapy.
by One.Cool.Customer on May 2, 2011 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
We're people, writing on a blog
“Talking” with other people…
We all need therapy…
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
Because of the nature of all this, neither of us can disagree too strongly-it's all conjecture
So, good responses, and while there are some points of difference, I’d say most of those fall under “agree to disagree.” E.g., taking the RB Murray in the 3rd. Time will tell. I’m not expecting much. Look at his rushing stats, not just total yards, for all 4 years. Not impressive.
And if they want him in a different role, well then, don’t do that in the 3rd round! And especially when Felix is already there. You can say, based on the new OL that Garrett’s got a plan for a certain type of offense, but that’s counting those eggs too soon. Seems like I’ve heard before about that awesome 2-TE offense JG was going to unleash…..and all last season the “3-headed monster” that was going to terrorize DC’s everywhere. I’ll believe it when I see it.
So, overall, I don’t think we’re far apart, except some issues like that, which we’ll never agree on.
My point was more a response to your opening, which basically said you (and other “optimists” ) are right due to “reasoning” while the ‘realists’ or ‘negative’ people are not showing reasoning. I’d argue exactly the opposite on this draft., although I’m sure you’d disagree. I was trying to show that reasoned arguments can lead to concerns, and that being critical of a few picks doesn’t mean someone is trashing the whole draft or just crying in their beer.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
by Realist Larry on May 2, 2011 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
My point was more a response to your opening, which basically said you (and other "optimists" ) are right due to "reasoning" while the ‘realists’ or ‘negative’ people are not showing reasoning.
To that, I can only answer with this:
Here in Cowboys Nation, there’s people that are called realists and the others are koolaid drinkers. Some are right and the others aren’t and just because some call themselves realists, it doesn’t make them right.
With that initial comment, I’m only saying that someone is right, for all I know you’re as likely to be right as me. We’re just 2 guys voicing our opinions.
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
that makes more sense and is exactly what I'm saying
and I’m trying to balance some of the overoptimism about guys who haven’t signed, strapped on a helmet, and practiced yet!
but it was easy to misread the way it was written.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
by Realist Larry on May 3, 2011 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Also, out of curiosity, what was your response to the 2009 draft?
If it, too, was optimistic, we’ve got problems!! ;)
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009
by Realist Larry on May 2, 2011 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions
For starters, I hated the Roy Williams trade. And that’s the first thing that I can tell you about that awful Draft.
After that, I could understand the trade down from the late 2nd Round, even if there’s people claiming that Loadholt was there and how he’s a starter, it doesn’t mean that he’s a good starter or someone that you would want starting for 5 years on your team. I know that Vikings fans don’t like him.
And when your picks are 3rd Rounders or later picks… Well… What are the chances that you’re going to find many players?
That Draft was cursed from the beginning.
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
"Is the guy injury prone because he can't keep himself healthy?"
YES! That is the exact definition of injury prone!
Terrence Newman is the definition of injury prone. Sean Lee’s 3 injuries in 1 year really really concern me.
The Ohio State Buckeyes are your Sugar Bowl champions... and for the 7th year in a row Michigan still sucks.
Adrian Peterson in College
Injury prone? Yes or no? And how has he managaed to stay healthy, for the most part, in the NFL?
An injury prone player can stop being injury prone? Or was he never injury prone at all?
Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!
I said that about Lee when they picked him
Rooting for him, but can his body hold up???
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you."
- John Wooden (God rest his soul)
Just a general comment on the subject of "injury prone". . .
. . . that’s a pretty subjective label. Your thoroughbreds are more likely to pull up lame than your heavy horses, but which one do you want in a race? Which one do you want pulling a plow?
Dez Bryant is as “injury prone” as Sean Lee. Dez was rehabbing when he got here, got hurt in training camp, and then the season-ender. Do we not want him? ( Now his immaturity is another issue.)
I think the way Dez plays the game puts him at risk of injury, spinning, fighting, taking hits, putting his body in unusual positions. While Sean Lee’s injuries, rather than resulting from being too small against bigger bodies, have been muscle pulls, probably from overextending, overworking particular muscle groups.
Newman’s injuries are usually related to his legs, like a thoroughbred, except for his rib injury.
Seems like the question should be, Does the player play hurt? If you’re injured, you can’t play; if you’re hurt, do you play through it? Newman usually tries to tough it out, and as he gets older he collects more dings.
Terrence Newman may be “injury prone” or he may be unlucky. I know Rangers fans are asking the same questions about Josh Hamilton, another player who can’t stay healthy because of the way he plays the game.
"We'll see." --Bill Parcells
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Things to know about NFL men who served in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam
- How Kyle Orton almost cost the Colts Andrew Luck
- Detroit Lions DT Nick Fairley arrested again; now has more NFL arrests than NFL sacks
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
