Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The MMA Hour Is Back

Cowboys players deserve no respect

As of late I've been around some conversations in BleedingGreenNation and BigBlueView regarding the NFL players and coaches Top 100 for 2011 and the love that Eli Manning gets, deservingly or not. Obviously, in those places the conversation CAN'T ignore the Cowboys and that's OK, we share the NFC East Division, they don't like our team and it's mutual.

So, all that served as food for thought for this post, in which I look at the QB situation for the 3 teams and what I consider a fair ranking of the NFL Top 10 QBs.

Star-divide

Tony Romo and Troy Aikman deserve no love for different reasons.

If you're a Cowboys fan and you've heard or read this line "Romo will be considered a good or better QB when he shows it in the Playoffs", would you please raise your hand? I can see a forest of hands...

Sure, Tom Brady won all those Playoffs games in the past decade by being alone out there... Wait, him and Vinatieri did... Wait, I'm mentioning  a Kicker? Fugget 'bout it! Montana surely won all those 4 Super Bowls by himself then! What? He has company in the Hall of Fame? Jerry Rice, Ronnie Lott and Bill Walsh? A receiver, a CB/S and a Coach? That hardly counts... Bradshaw? Too painful... Some of those rings he didn't deserve...

Ok, then, I guess that Romo shouldn't deserve credit until he shows that he can help his team win in the Playoffs... Oh, wait, that won't happen... It's all about Aikman...

If you're a Cowboys fan and you've heard or read this line "Aikman was an average to good QB that drove a great team to 3 Super Bowl victories", would you please raise your hand? Huh, another forest...

Sure, winning a Super Bowl isn't the mark of a great QB... How else would QBs like Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien and some others (Eli Manning? I kid, I kid!) find a way to lead their teams to Super Bowl victories... What? Aikman led his team to 3? That's an indication of how good that team was! Surely, every other team that won several Super Bowls in a small window managed that with less stars...

Ok, then, I guess that Romo and Aikman won't ever get the respect that they deserve, haters will look long and hard at ways to bring them down.

I love it, man, haters gonna hate and they will be consistent 'bout it.

 

Michael Vick. The pre-week 12 one, the week 12 and post one or the career one?

How are we supposed to rank this guy? He has one year of true production as an Eagle and 6 years of production with the Falcons, but that's not it, you can also find a difference between the 2010 Vick:

Pre-week 12 (7 games, 6 complete ones):

YardsTDIntYPARating
1608 11 0 8.42 108.72

Week 12 and post (6 games, includes one Postseason game):

YardsTDIntYPARating
1702 11 7 7.84 89.3

If his production during his career tells me something is that the 1st set of numbers aren't very reliable, he was always closer to the 2nd set. So, as an Eagle and health dependant, is he going to be something in between both sets? 20 TDs, 10 Ints., 3500 yards and his ground production?

Sounds like solid numbers to me, but nothing close to his production early in 2010.

 

Eli Manning is more than good.

And he deserved being in the Top 100 above Freeman and McNabb. Why wasn't he? I can't understand it, just like most Giants fans.

Looking at his 2010 numbers, I can think of a reason (25 Ints.), but I can also look at their injuries along the OLine, how his best friend as a pass catcher had an injury riddled year (Steve Smith) and I know that if many things are against you that you won't look pretty, QB can become a pretty lonely position back there.

Some of his defenders like to mention how Drew Brees is highly respected and the guy threw 22 Interceptions last year, but they fail to mention that he had no running game at all. So teams knew that they were going to throw the ball. And the Saints suffered the same disease that's hurting the Colts, the disease of having no-name bookends at Tackle (Among other things it hurts YPA, you have to throw more short or out of bounds passes).

So, how good is Eli Manning? I'm thinking something in between last season and the previous 2 years (48 TDs - 24 Ints.).

 

2011 QB Ranking:

  1. Peyton Manning. Tackles disease + Injuries at pass catchers + Poor running game + Tough schedule = Almost the same always silly-high level of play.
  2. Tom Brady. The guy efficiently manages to win games and he's highly productive while doing so.
  3. Drew Brees. Tackles disease + Poor running game + Tough schedule = Almost the same always silly-high level of play.
  4. Aaron Rodgers. The guy efficiently manages to win games and he's highly productive while doing so.
  5. Phillip Rivers. In the last 3 years he has 92 TDs - 33 Ints. Yeah, that's almost a 3-1 ratio.
  6. Ben Roethlisberger. As a passer he's as good as hard as he's to bring down. VERY.
  7. Mike Vick.
  8. Tony Romo. Not a ranking based in last year's production, it's about the last 3 years.
  9. Eli Manning.
  10. Matt Ryan. The guy efficiently manages to win games and he's highly productive while doing so.
Poll
Your thoughts?
Haters just hate
21 votes
I like your ranking
31 votes
Horrible, homer, ranking
7 votes
I hate the current labor impasse as much as haters hate the Cowboys
55 votes

114 votes | Poll has closed

Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.

Comment 100 comments  |  1 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

There have definitely been some heated battles with regards to Eli, Tony and Vick

I agree with you, 100%, that Romo definitely does not get the respect he deserves. He’s a statistical monster that’s shown more than the requisite amount of leadership for the position.

I will also say that Eli absolutely does not get the respect that he deserves either. As you mentioned, people trash hiim for the INTs, but nobody remembers that he was 4th in the league in TDs, 5th in yards, 9th in completion %. There’ve been countless debates on the credit given to him for his playoff run, and just how meaningful the playoffs are.

Everybody also fails to mention that he is the 2nd highest active streak holder in the NFL, despite a declining OL (the low amount of sacks was Eli’s manueverability and quick trigger) and despite playing with a separated shoulder and plantar fasciitis.

Yet he is consistently called “overrated,” his leadership has been called into question several times (sometimes based on how his informal practices in the month of MAY have turned out), getting snubbed in the top 100, and his entire body of work being ignored for the new flavor of the day like Freeman, Ryan, or Bradford.

Simply put, then, we can all agree that the QB we have is the right one for our teams. Both are top 10 quarterbacks, and depending on what you look for, could be ranked higher and lower than each other. I agree that 8-9 is the correct spot for them, and in general the 6-10 level tier is perfect.

Vick is someone that I need more time to correctly qualify. Yes, he’s had a great year, but nobody really gameplanned for Vick at all (especially not till late in the season). Then we saw his passer rating start tailing off. I could see him at the 7 spot, but there’s a ton of room for him to fall after next year.

Wilpon thinks he's going to get Yankees money. He won't get it. Everything's been wrong with this team.

Fred Wilpon: Not a good owner. Really not a very good owner. Definitely not a superstar.

I'm the shmuck who gave him my contract of loyalty even though he's an idiot. And now, he's increased that idiocy by 65-70%

by BigBlueIntervention on May 26, 2011 4:24 PM CDT reply actions  

BBI

dude has the hardware man, he is extremely talented
I still think Eli is a guy who hasnt really put it all together, which is crazy when you consider the guy has a ring and plays in the toughest division in sports imo
Eli is a top 10 QB no question, he could be top 5 if he ever put it all together

like I said its night and day with the dude, some games I am not even afraid of him because he just looks off, example the two games last year, Eli comes out throwing what 3 picks? there are some games where we play and I am just not afraid of him
but when he is on, I know and the guy scares me to death

good QB, who could be great if he puts it all together

I say the same for Romo, he is a good QB who borderlines great I am still waiting to see him behind a better offensive line and run game, thats why im excited this year

Vick is awesome, he scares me every game

Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!

by Archie Barberio on May 26, 2011 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Chia, bro haven't seen ya in some time man

Agreed, consistency is definitely something that needs to be worked on, for both. They both still have room to improve.

Vick scares me, yes. But I’m not convinced that he’s an elite QB…..yet. As of right now, obviously should be high based on last year…but I’ll reserve judgement until after next year

Wilpon thinks he's going to get Yankees money. He won't get it. Everything's been wrong with this team.

Fred Wilpon: Not a good owner. Really not a very good owner. Definitely not a superstar.

I'm the shmuck who gave him my contract of loyalty even though he's an idiot. And now, he's increased that idiocy by 65-70%

by BigBlueIntervention on May 26, 2011 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah bro

whats up my dude, how you been
I must say your a cool dude and a class act, too bad I cant say the same for every giants fan

living in NY as a Cowboys fan is tough my dude

Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!

by Archie Barberio on May 26, 2011 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

been better, school sucks hard but got a week left
I must say your a cool dude and a class act

Appreciate it, man. You’ve been one of my favorite bloggers on SBN and I’ve read alot of your work here. Disappeared from MtD for awhile, though…

As for the other Giants fans, haha, well you can’t say that about any fanbase. You’re bound to get the assholes regardless, but its good to get the wide spectrum of people I guess.

Wilpon thinks he's going to get Yankees money. He won't get it. Everything's been wrong with this team.

Fred Wilpon: Not a good owner. Really not a very good owner. Definitely not a superstar.

I'm the shmuck who gave him my contract of loyalty even though he's an idiot. And now, he's increased that idiocy by 65-70%

by BigBlueIntervention on May 27, 2011 2:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah

I like MTD but that site man fell off alot dude

Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!

by Archie Barberio on May 27, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Understood

I guess that we also agree that as fans of X team we pay much more attention to the team that we follow as opposed to the opposing teams… I know that first hand, I’ve never seen a full 16 game season from any other team in the East that isn’t the Cowboys.

So, I have to base my opinion on 2 tiers, what my eyes see and stats. Stats are the measurables of the production that I’m seeing and not. Sure, there’re many things that stats fail to measure (like release, leadership, intelligence, etc.), but it’s as good as it gets when analyzing players with actual evidence of production.

And Romo has Eli beat in pretty much every category in a per game basis. Rating, TDs-Int ratio, YPA, yards, etc.

Sure. Eli led his team to the Super Bowl, but does that make him a better QB? Or did he had a better team at the right time? I’m going to give you an example: If you were to clone one of the great QBs in the 90s and have him leading your Franchise for the next 15 years who would you snatch? The options are: Aikman (3 Rings), Elway (2 Rings), Young (1 Ring), Montana (1 Ring), Favre (1 Ring), Marino, Kelly and Moon.

Something tells me that you wouldn’t pick Aikman… I wouldn’t, either. Aikman was perfect for the Cowboys and deserves his spot in Canton for his Playoffs production (which is GREAT), but my love for the Cowboys doesn’t blind me, the guy wasn’t an Elite (Top 3) QB in the 90s.

Which is also the reasoning behind my belief that Peyton is a better QB than Brady, despite Brady being the better “Winner”.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on May 27, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Warren Moon baby.

by G_SWAG on May 27, 2011 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Moon, in this O, rocks.

Gentlemen, we’re 0-16. Let’s change that.

by tanstaafl on May 28, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

All great points

Again, Romo has Eli beat statistically. And the playoffs argument can be refuted. Eli passes the eye test for me though. I haven’t seen Romo enough for him to qualify, but Eli’s durability, his stats (while not good for Romo, he’s comfortably in the top 10 in most major stats), the whole playoff thing (yes, while I don’t see it as the be-all, end-all of arguments, I do think its important considering Eli had 3 game winning 4th quarter drives that year plus I believe the highest QB rating in the playoffs (or one of the highest) in history….all on the road.)

He’s basically what the Giants need him to be, has carried the team on his back, has top 10 stats, and a superbowl MVP not too long ago. Not many other QBs can say that, and is my argument for why he’s firmly a top 10 QB. I’m not comparing him to Romo, but considering that Romo’s stats are heads and shoulders above everyone else I’d say he’s top 10 too, so your ranking is accurate to me.

I like a tier system instead of just a flat ranking like this and I’d rank them as:

Tier 0: Peyton, Brady
Tier 1: Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Brees
Tier 2: Eli, Romo, Vick, Ryan, Schaub

Wilpon thinks he's going to get Yankees money. He won't get it. Everything's been wrong with this team.

Fred Wilpon: Not a good owner. Really not a very good owner. Definitely not a superstar.

I'm the shmuck who gave him my contract of loyalty even though he's an idiot. And now, he's increased that idiocy by 65-70%

by BigBlueIntervention on May 27, 2011 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

The tiers

work for me as well. Rodgers may enter that top tier for me if he has another year like last year. And Rivers is right behind them. Another guy I really like that never gets mentioned is Flacco. He’s a winner, makes good decisions, cannon arm, and he has some mobility. Perfect for that team.

Just get it done already...

by tommy d. on May 28, 2011 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wrong on Flacco...

He is a good QB, until he faces the Steelers. I have seen him choke so many times against the Steelers it isn’t even funny. Last year they gave him more weapons and they still couldn’t beat the Steelers. When Flacco gets the monkey off his back and beat the Steelers when it counts, then he will be allowed to go to the next level in QB.

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on May 30, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your right.

I guess I was just saying that I think of him as somewhere around the 12th best QB, but that I like his game, that he is young, and I think he is an ascending player.

Just get it done already...

by tommy d. on May 31, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I mean

im not an Eli fan, but the dude has a ring and throws for alot of yards, but he throws alot of picks
its kinda night and day from him jmo, some games the guy looks amazing, others he looks downright like a sissy with his hands on his hips pouting
if Asante Samuel catches that pick 6 or if Tyree drops that ball Eli might have some serious heat on his job
but at the end of the day the guy has a ring so I cant really hate on him
do I like him? no, he is a cry sissy daddys boy, but do I give him his props? all day and some

Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!

by Archie Barberio on May 26, 2011 5:35 PM CDT reply actions  

It breaks my heart

But what Ive seen him do to our secondary is disheartening. The Giants have been a thorn in our side for a while now. Now I think that the superbowl run had less to do with Eli and more to do with your rotating DLine of doom that wore us out. But Eli did what he needed to do to win. So that is why I give him the slight mark above Romo. Granted Romo has much better stats than Ben Rothlesberger, but at the end of the day, Ben has that it, to win under pressure, or do what ever it takes to get that needed yard or touchdown that Romo just hasn’t shown yet. That’s why stats aren’t everything.

F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...

by Holchr31 on May 30, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

All I know is that all three teams in question here have better QBs than the lolskins. That is one thing we can all agree on.

If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels

Dirk Nowitzki is absolutely the most underrated basketball player in the league right now. He is one of four players all-time to average 25+ points and 10+ rebounds in the playoffs.

by Creasy729 on May 26, 2011 6:24 PM CDT reply actions  

truer words have not been spoken

Wilpon thinks he's going to get Yankees money. He won't get it. Everything's been wrong with this team.

Fred Wilpon: Not a good owner. Really not a very good owner. Definitely not a superstar.

I'm the shmuck who gave him my contract of loyalty even though he's an idiot. And now, he's increased that idiocy by 65-70%

by BigBlueIntervention on May 26, 2011 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

its sad tho

they have had COUNTLESS chances to land a decent QB

Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!

by Archie Barberio on May 26, 2011 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

word

Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!

by Archie Barberio on May 26, 2011 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

What? Beck's gonna start and blow us all away!

Haven’t you heard?

- Formerly fan since '65.

by fs65 on May 30, 2011 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Romo

deserves to be above Vick, IMO. He is just a better all-around QB. Not as mobile, but still picks us up a ton of FDs; and a lightyears-better passer.

To this day I have no idea what that woman was singing about. Like, literally no idea. I don’t know what a hollaback girl is. But I have to imagine it is a foul, disease ridden thing that wears too much make-up just to cover up the fact that it is a forty-seven year-old fish dog. – Family guy

by BlueNSilverBlood on May 27, 2011 5:32 AM CDT reply actions  

I like your QB rankings, but...

I might replace Eli with someone like Flacco or Shaub. I would also debate that until Vick does it a second time, I am not sure he belongs at the 7 spot.

As for Aikman, anyone that thinks he was merely a bus driver is simply a hater, didn’t see him play, and/or hasn’t recently looked at accuracy and TD records in the Playoffs and Super Bowls where Aikman had (and still has) a few records.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on May 27, 2011 8:11 AM CDT reply actions  

Accuracy.

Off the chain. Meeting receiver in-stride, which, IMO, is Romo’s most glaring weakness. He throws behind and/or high.

Give me UR calls! Give me highstepping by CBs and PRs entering the endzone! Give me screaming on the sidelines and headbutting! Give me Fortitude, Solidarity and VIOLENCE! Bring me CHAMPIONSHIPS!
Bring me Ridolin LOL! - BNSB

by BlueNSilverBlood on May 27, 2011 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on May 27, 2011 8:14 AM CDT reply actions  

ahhh yess ole rodney....deee

 those large , yet sagging eyes were unmistakable in my early years, seen alot of his movies and comedy routines. the man was a nervous laugh start to end. loved the guy hehehehe

woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol

by demonbane on May 27, 2011 9:49 AM CDT reply actions  

HOF Comedian

Just get it done already...

by tommy d. on May 28, 2011 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

imagine this

remember a few years ago there were rumors the Cowboys wanted to sign Mike VIck
so say we did
Vick would have stepped in to replace Romo that Giants game right and we would have a QB debate also we could trade Vick for some serious draft picks

hindsight I know but this was a HUGE debate on DMN a few years ago

Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!

by Archie Barberio on May 27, 2011 1:53 PM CDT reply actions  

I understand the point of view of Romo above Vick

But his numbers last year and Coach Reid give me pause.

Reid knows how to protect the ball in his passing system, under him McNabb had a really good TD-Int ratio and he always was a vertical QB, often taking chances on long throws.

I don’t think that Vick is able to take care of the ball as well, he hasn’t shown that he’s capable, after his string of perfect games, KC Joyner wrote an article saying that he was leading the League in bad decisions, how lucky he was with his 0 in interceptions and believed that his luck would run out… As it turned out, after his article he started throwing interceptions and didn’t stop.

But I think that he’s capable of taking better care of the ball that those last 7 games and post numbers in the middle of both sets of numbers. If you add his ground production to that high quality passing production, the guy becomes a VERY respectable QB.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on May 27, 2011 1:55 PM CDT reply actions  

With Cowboys even rings don't equal respect

Screw Respect. Go for Dread.

Gentlemen, we’re 0-16. Let’s change that.

by tanstaafl on May 28, 2011 11:30 AM CDT reply actions  

I as big of a Cowboys homer as they come

But even through my rose colored glasses I can see that NONE of the Pats receivers that Brady WON those rings with would start for the Cowboys in 2011.

Would you start Branch, Brown, Givens over Miles, Dez or even Williams? In those years Brady never had a TE that could be mentioned in the same breath as Witten. He did not have a RB with the big play potential of FJones. His o-line was very good, but was it better then what Romo had to work with from 2007-2009?

The Cowboys have one playoff win in the last 14 years. Romo is 1-3 in his 4 playoff starts. Great organizations do not go 1-7 in the playoffs over a 14 year span. . Until the Cowboys change that with or without Romo our team is closer to the Lions, Bills, and Browns of the world. Accept it.

"Talent is God-given; be humble. Fame is man-given; be grateful. Conceit is self-given; be careful." John Wooden

by 082288 on May 28, 2011 11:39 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

WOW

“Mr. Burgandy you have a massive erection!”

Just get it done already...

by tommy d. on May 28, 2011 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I love that movie!

Ferrell kills me. He’s the devil, but funny as heck.
You guys are right about Brady also.

Give me UR calls! Give me highstepping by CBs and PRs entering the endzone! Give me screaming on the sidelines and headbutting! Give me Fortitude, Solidarity and VIOLENCE! Bring me CHAMPIONSHIPS!
Bring me Ridolin LOL! - BNSB

by BlueNSilverBlood on May 31, 2011 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

agreed that Tom Brady has sold

his soul for the ability to do some sort of black magickz because his ability is ridiculous.

If things seem under control, you're just not going fast enough.

by BigBlueIntervention on May 28, 2011 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I love the

total package that is Brady as a QB. He won championships with those mediocre WR crews and almost won one with the best offense and best year any QB has ever had.

But my respect for him as a player wasn’t complete until watching him take that beating from the Giants in SB XLII and still he almost got it done against them. It was impressive to see he had enough left to drive the Pats to what many thought was the game winning TD late in the fourth quarter.

I never saw guys like Otto Graham, Johnny U, or Sonny Jergenson play, but I’ve been watching since the 70’s, and Brady’s “deal with the devil” as you say has made him as good as anyone I’ve ever seen play.

Just get it done already...

by tommy d. on May 29, 2011 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

About Cassel,

Yeah he was good enough to win 11 games with them. BUT, he’s now a starter for another team who he took to the playoffs. It’s not like the pats won 11 games with Chris Greisen.

Do you honestly think the whole world is wrong about Brady?

Just get it done already...

by tommy d. on May 31, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

people get overrated all the time.

Brady, will fall into the Terry Bradshaw category for me.

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player

by thebigham on May 31, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

And Tee Martin won a National Title the year after Peyton graduated.

And Rex Grossman lost a Super Bowl; Peyton didn’t win one.

And I guess Montana and Young were also mediocre fairies fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time because Bono and Grbac were also productive players who won games in the 9ers system.

And so it goes…(All sarcasm by the way.)

Point being if a guy is capable of putting up 50 TD/8 INT in the only season he EVER played with an elite skill player(Moss) in his prime which Brady did………(Whatever you think of Harrison, Wayne and Edge they were all 1st rounders and all played well above expectations and then some; a far better core than the spare parts Brady’s had to work with. Furthermore, the Colts do nothing but spend 1st rounders on skill players) ……..

Well, if hes’ still just some geek off the street to you, then either there is no such thing as an elite quarterback and they’re all just interchangeable dudes with cute statistics, or you just try way too hard to analyze this simple game called football.

For the record, as of today, I’d take a 27-year old Rodgers over Brady or Peyton, even though I realize having to worry about the menacing tag team of Suh and Fairley crushing their skull is something neither of those guys will have to regularly worry about.

by MadMick on Jun 1, 2011 4:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Did I offend you?

Really you don’t see how Brady is avg? It didn’t command a game like Manning or brees or even Rodgers. He does as Bill says. Brady is not a qb that would succeed any where. Unlike the marino’s favre’s manning’s of the world.

Brady is this generations Terry Bradshaw.

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player

by thebigham on Jun 1, 2011 5:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Me? Nah.

Outside of NFC East foes, the Pats are the team I love to hate the next most.

Command a game? In ’07 he commanded a whole season and Brady did it not by being merely a checkdown champ but by challenging and owning teams as a down-the-field thrower.

Oh yeah, about that whole notion that the Pats lost basically nothing when Brady went down on opening day in ‘08. Well, last time I checked 21 TD passes isn’t even half as many as 50. Like I said just because a guy like Elvis Grbac could fill in for Young in ‘95, throw for 305 in a blowout win over the eventual Super Bowl champs doesn’t diminish how good that know-it-all punk Young still was. Even if plenty of QB’s could’ve lit it up playing for that era’s Cowboys or 9ers.

Now to be sure, Brady gets a whole hell of a lot of credit for a couple of game-winning field goal drives in the Super Bowl like he was the guy who actually kicked them. And of course, there’s the tuck rule thig-a-ma-jig. And no he doesn’t possess a laser arm. So what?

What the guy is; a “skilled” thrower of the ball short, intermediate or long; certainly moreso than a Romo or Eli. By the way, Brees didn’t exactly light anybody up in the ‘09-’10 postseason. He dissected the opposition more than anything which you seem to be penalizing Brady for. 32-of-39 for 288 in the SB win over the Colts. That’s pretty flawless. At nickel and diming the defense to death. Nothing wrong with that; but it’s not any flashier than Brady’s best Super Bowl outing.

Also I’m not sure Rodgers should be classified as the “even” in that hierarchy . His past postseason is better than any Brees or Peyton have ever had. If it wasn’t for seven dropped passes in the Super Bowl, he could’ve had a shot at the single-game yardage mark; against THE STEELERS. Yeah, the Steelers were exposed in that game but it’s still the Steelers.

And Rodgers would’ve easily had 400 yards passing against them if his receivers weren’t in blooper mode. In fact, I’d say he played one bad half the whole postseason. By contrast, Peyton played only one great half the year the Colts finally won it all.

System guys don’t have the ’08 or ’10 seasons Brady had.

by MadMick on Jun 1, 2011 7:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes they do.

It was a perfect storm. But look at Bradys numbers. You’ll see the scream avg.

True Rodgers is far better but you know the rule lets see him do it again kind of thing.

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player

by thebigham on Jun 1, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Brady-to-Brown 100x per year - mostly 5-7 yard passes

and Troy Brown wasn’t even the #1 target in the system. Totally messes up zone defence…

by scraig on Jun 3, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Brady is not

a great QB in this league, who is? And are you a metric guy? Or do you play Madden or fantasy football?

Just get it done already...

by tommy d. on Jun 4, 2011 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Eye Ball test

Its the same ole tale of Bradshaw vs Marino type of thing for me. Brady is in a great system with a great FO, great Coach, great owner. They will be just fine without him.

Someone like Peyton Manning though.. that guy is the team, that guy takes charge of games, players, the team is built around him. Same could be said about Favre, soon to be Rodgers, Montana, Young.

To be clear I am arguing if Brady is elite. To me elite is Top 1%. “The best of the best of the best.. SIR.. ”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7ebfrcv4tc" target="new">with honors!"(@1:26)

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player

by thebigham on Jun 4, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

fail...

 "The best of the best of the best.. SIR.. with honors" (@1:26)

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player

by thebigham on Jun 4, 2011 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok, I see what your saying.

Over the last 10 years, in your eyes (ball test), Peyton is the only guy you would call elite?

For me, I would give the elite nod to the same 3 as most people, Peyton, Brady, Brees. Rodgers is well on his way. He just needs another season to cement it for me. And I know I get alot of disagreement with this one, as well as some agreement, but I think Rivers is very close to the “Big 3”, soon to be “Big 4.”

Just get it done already...

by tommy d. on Jun 4, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

And Big Ben,

as much as I dislike him, gets honorable mention because I watch alot of Steeler games and he makes alot of big plays at crucial times. And he, ahem, WINS. :-)

Just get it done already...

by tommy d. on Jun 4, 2011 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

The great Tom Brady

Just now decided to show up for workouts. Hmm..

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2011/6/1/2200611/tom-brady-new-england-patriots-nfl-lockout

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player

by thebigham on Jun 1, 2011 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jim Kelly gets no respect for leading his team down the field for the winning field goal in the SB...

It was probably because Norwood missed the kick… might not have changed the result of the next 3 SBs though.

by scraig on Jun 3, 2011 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I see

I think that you’re underrating the concept of having solid or better players in pretty much every position.

That’s pretty much what I think of those Patriots and why Brady hasn’t been able to add a 4th ring… His team isn’t solid or better at every position anymore.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on May 30, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Cowboys O line wasn't anything to brag about 2007-2009. That playoff game

against the Giants in which the O line fell apart in the second half was foreshadowing of a steady decline. Romo has never had the protection Brady has. I’m not dissing Brady or saying Romo is in the same league, but I wouldn’t use O line quality as a strike against Romo.

by Fernie67 on May 31, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Brady can throw in-front of the receiver on a slant...

We don’t need to trade RW to NE to figure out that…

by scraig on Jun 3, 2011 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

What?????

Bradshaw didn’t deserve some of the rings he got? What do you mean by that?
Obviously you’re too young to remember that the 49ers won their first 2 Super Bowls without Rice and a lot of other stars. I think the Cowboys have more Hall of Famers from their SB teams than the Niners do. Learn when not to capitalize, or find someone to edit your work.

by djwilliamsisu on May 30, 2011 7:28 PM CDT reply actions  

Someone recently showed me this:

I don't like boobs

Just get it done already...

by tommy d. on May 31, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

so i would do this

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player

by thebigham on May 31, 2011 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

so i would do this

Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player

by thebigham on May 31, 2011 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yup,

successful sarcasm font there, bigham, twice. :-)

Just get it done already...

by tommy d. on May 31, 2011 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

let me try...

I love the Heat

With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"

by I am Ironman!!! on Jun 1, 2011 4:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

works for me!!! Yeah!!!

With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"

by I am Ironman!!! on Jun 1, 2011 4:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

the refs are doing a great job again this chamionship. That blatant foul Nowitzki had on Bosh was a great call. I also laud the fact the sideline ref came in to debate with the backcourt ref on what shouldn't have been a charge. Chandler needs to stop putting his hands on other players and control his blatant fouls

by G_SWAG on Jun 1, 2011 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

maybe you are putting spaces after the at signs?

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Jun 3, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

make sure you are doing it in the text box...not the title line.

Rabid and luvin' it

by lonewolfz28 on Jun 3, 2011 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is an awesome thread!

- Formerly fan since '65.

by fs65 on Jun 4, 2011 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, settle the lockout and we'll have

something else to talk about. Amazing what a little boredom will do.

by Fernie67 on Jun 4, 2011 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey, if it weren't for this thread,

I wouldn’t be able to do this:

Thanks!

Who knew I could actually learn from something from a Giants fan.

by Fernie67 on Jun 4, 2011 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dude, I'm sorry. I thought you were agreeing with

fs65’s obnoxious comment. My apologies for my own obnoxious comment.

by Fernie67 on Jun 4, 2011 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sarcasm Fail. On my part.

As soon as I saw how that looked, I wished there is a delete button. I was trying to be funny and that failed too.

- Formerly fan since '65.

by fs65 on Jun 6, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL, no worries. I should

slow down and wait to post when I’m not in the best mood. If I had, I’d have let it all go. I’ll say it again; I really wish we had an edit or delete button.

by Fernie67 on Jun 6, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm happier for the next guy who needs

to make sure his sarcasm/irony isn’t missed. Too bad it has to be spelled out.

by Fernie67 on Jun 4, 2011 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nahhh...

Gentlemen, we’re 0-16. Let’s change that.

by tanstaafl on Jun 7, 2011 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Chandus

shoot me an email when you get a chance bro-

KDP10For10@gmail.com

SB Nation's Dallas Cowboys Site, Blogging The Boys | Follow me @KDP10for10
Flood The Block Radio on THEFLOW, every Tuesday 730p on www.rocktheflow.com | The new social pulse of the DMV.

by KD Drummond on Jun 1, 2011 9:40 AM CDT reply actions  

I think Phillip Rivers is really good, but not THAT good

His stats have been inflated by playing against horrible pathetic Kansas City, Oakland, and Denver teams 6 times a year for the past half-decade.

Meanwhile, Romo has had to contend multiple times every year with elite Giants and Eagles teams.

Not to say Rivers is bad, I think he’s a great QB. But I would take Romo over him and believe his stats are inflated based on the competition he’s faced vs. other QBs in the league.

The Ohio State Buckeyes are your Sugar Bowl champions... and for the 7th year in a row Michigan still sucks.

by Blue Eyed Devil on Jun 1, 2011 6:09 PM CDT reply actions  

They haven't been that bad

In yards per game, Oakland was top 10 last year, KC was average and Denver poor. In 2009 Denver and Oakland were both in the top 10 and KC was poor.

But it isn’t just that, Rivers also has to face 10 teams outside his division and the guy flat out produces. Earlier he was compared to Aikman because he was that efficient, but last year he produced like Aikman in the Playoffs, he was asked to throw the ball more because their running game suffered and he did it without his number 1 receiver.

The guy is good, REALLY good.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Jun 1, 2011 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep, Romo vs Manning is a no-brainer

Both of them go head-to-head in 2007. Romo was unproven so was Eli, Dallas was solid from end-to-end that year and Romo won pretty easily in the regular season, but when the chips were down Eli played like a Manning and Romo played like the unproven guy. Years later the analysts are saying the same thing, he will grow into something great, he will get better with playoff experience, he will be a better leader in the locker room, he will have an upside.

But I ask the same question – when the chips are down who do you want to be your QB? Manning, Rogers, Brady, Rivers, Brees? Staubach, White, Aikman? Morton, Hogeboom, Romo?

Or maybe a better question would be if Dallas needs Romo so bad, why was McGee just as successful in 1 start as Romo was in 4? Why was Kitna so successful especially under Garrett? Would Romo be able to lead Carolina to a championship? If the team was THAT GOOD when he stepped in why couldn’t he do what White did under more pressure, stepping into Captain Comback’s shoes.

Maybe because Romo isn’t quite that good…

White – 1 Pro Bowl, 3 NFC Championships (consecutive)
Romo – 3 Pro Bowls, 1-3 playoff record
Yes – White’s numbers suck compared to Aikman and Romo…

by scraig on Jun 3, 2011 9:23 PM CDT reply actions  

That's the purpose of this post

To talk about the importance of the TEAM in a TEAM sport.

One QB has a lot to do with the success of a team, but how much? Do you think that Aikman would have carried this team to a Super Bowl title? With Romo’s protection his career would have been much shorter due to concussions…

Now, if we’re talking Staubach… With his mobility and playmaking ability I would be willing to admit that he would be more succesful… But we’re talking about the best QB in the history of the Franchise… And a top 10 best QB of all time…

Giants fans take your same perspective… Those guys slam Romo because he won’t win a title… He… Not the team around him… Just the QB on an island… Surely, Eli Manning won that Super Bowl title by standing on an island… I guess…

Not.

Arnold, almost 5 years of good memories, you'll be missed.
Viva México! Go Cowboys!

by Chandus on Jun 4, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm a Giant fan.

And I have felt since 2007 that he is good enough to win a title, NO QUESTION. Romo is a playmaker and it seems that he has grown into a leader. Well, actually, after watching him in 2007 I thought he would get better and could be a SB winning QB. After watching him in 2008, I told my Cowboy fan friend who lives in Dallas that the Cowboys would win a title with Romo as long as JJ either hires a GM or learns how to be a great one.

Just get it done already...

by tommy d. on Jun 4, 2011 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really?
why was McGee just as successful in 1 start as Romo was in 4?

Let’s see:
- Because Philly was locked into their playoff seed.
- They didn’t need to win.
- They played backups.
- They only scored 13 points.

- Formerly fan since '65.

by fs65 on Jun 4, 2011 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Eli's not in the top 100 because he's not that good.

He’s not in the top 10.He’s close.I would put him at 11 or 12.
I would swap Vick and Ryan and then put Romo at 9.
You know who’s at #8.
None other than one Josh Freeman.
If you guys haven’t seen this guy play let me tell you he’s a stud.
I put him and Ryan ahead of Romo basically because of potential.
They’re a lot younger and have much more upside.
The first 6 QB’s are just about right on.
Flacco,Schaub,Sanchez,and Bradford are in the top 15.

by Quest For Six on Jun 5, 2011 12:51 AM CDT reply actions  

Josh Freeman has had 1 good year and didn't even lead his team to the playoffs

He really doesn’t deserve anything because he hasn’t done anything.

If things seem under control, you're just not going fast enough.

by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 7, 2011 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

He did more for his team than Eli did...and is younger and with a worse supporting cast

In 2010, Eli did have a slightly higher yard and completion % than Freeman – 62.9% and 4000 yards for Eli vs. 61.4% and 3500 yards for Freeman – but when you look at their TD to INT ratio, I would MUCH rather have had Freeman as my QB.

Eli threw 31 TDs but 25 INTs! I would take Freeman’s 25 TDs and 6 INTs and comparable stats over Eli’s.

I think you are selling the kid short. He had a very impressive sophmore season. Not saying I would put him in my Top 10 yet, but I think the “hasn’t done anything” is a bit much.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Jun 8, 2011 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Perhaps, we could look at Eli's 2009 season

where he completed 63% of his passes, 4200 yards, 27 TDs to only 14 INTs. Or in 2008, where he had 3900 yards, 62% of his passes, 21 TDs and 10 INTs. My point is, Eli has done consistently well, whereas Freeman, though he has great upside, is at this point, nothing more than a 1 year wonder.

Some other examples:

Derek Anderson had that great year where he had like 30 TDs and 18 INTs with almost 4000 yards. After that year? Meh.

Or David Garrard? Didn’t he have that 2007 season where he had 3000 yards, 18 TDs to only 3 INTs plus a couple more rushing TDs?

Point is, more time is needed before we can crown Freeman as better than an established QB who, over the past 3 years (despite his down year in terms of INTs), has had 50 more TDs than INTs, 63% completion rate, and averages 4000 yards and who also is a superbowl MVP.

If things seem under control, you're just not going fast enough.

by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 8, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your examples are players that out of the blue had a good season. I am talking about a sophmore growing into his own.

Now, I can tell you are arguing about Eli’s career vs. just judging 2010 seasons and I get that, and thus why I said I wouldn’t add Freeman into the Top 10 yet either…but don’t take anythign away from him. He is certainly on pace to move into the Top 10 sooner than later and looks like the best QB in his draft class right now. As a final note, comparing Eli’s prime years to a sophmore year and finding little difference (other than the SuperBowl MVP) should also be a hint that Freeman seems to have a bright future ahead of him.

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Jun 8, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying that Freeman isn't going to do well.

I’m more or less agreeing with you, that he’s got a ton of promise. Those examples were merely to show that anyone is capable of having one good season, and I’d like to see a few more seasons at this level before I, in the immortal words of Denny Green, “crown his ass” lol.

If things seem under control, you're just not going fast enough.

by BigBlueIntervention on Jun 8, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

HAHA

What a great press conference moment. I laugh just thinking about. “They were who we thought they were, and we let off the hook. If you want to crown em, crown his ass” then smacking the microphone…man, there should be some kind of award for best coaching press conference outbursts

"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry

by Kegbearer on Jun 8, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Dallas Cowboys blog for the SB Nation network. We talk Cowboys 24/7/365. Join the discussion but follow the community guidelines.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

09_bar-refaeli_08_small
Bedtime Stories Part 1: What KMAAN
222724_1014143404454_1551120017_30067740_5911_n_small
2012: Random Thoughts about Anything but a Quiet Offseason
Demarco_murray_st_louis_rams_v_dallas_cowboys_baxpocve6rkl_small
Headed in the Right Direction...(Delusional or Reality)
Small
X's and O's... More Basics... Cover 3...
Small
Cowboys players under 25 are more valuable than Eagles and Giants

Recent FanPosts

Small
Beat the Pass Rush
Small
Romo and the Super Bowl Question
Small
A LETTER TO MIKE JENKINS...
Kegbearer_small
Battles In The Trenches: Cowboys Athletic D-Linemen
Small
How much does pass rush matter?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Editor

New_headshot_small Dave Halprin

Lead Writer

Brandon_small Brandon Worley

2012-05-23_14-43-22_987_small KD Drummond

Captain_small One.Cool.Customer

Contributing Writers

Emmittintro_small rabblerousr

Dallas_cowboys_nike_gloves_small Archie Barberio

Even_better_tom_small Tom Ryle

2011_07160126_small CotySaxman

Moderators

Ns_08bstockb-thumb-200x185_small scottmaui

Sean_lee_small NYHorn