BTB Behavior Modification
On the heels of OCC's recent post about BTB site stats, posters and the like, I've been thinking a lot about BTB and how we can continue to enhance the poster/commenter/lurker experience here and I thought I would throw out some observations and ideas for general feedback.
First and foremost, I think BTB has an outstanding cadre of front page writers and contributors. But what sets BTB apart from other SB Nation sites is clearly the quality of its fanposters (aka Cowboys fans). What stands out is the sheer volume of posts that are so well-written (without huge flaws in grammar and sentence structure), well thought-out (organized in a way that is coherent) and present a cogent line of thinking about a worthy topic as a general rule. At the same time, what frustrates me is that, in the ensuing threads, people make fantastic comments, which garner praise for their insight from other readers but those readers FAIL TO REC THEM. One thing we seem to lag behind our SB Nation brethren in is the notion of making comments green within a thread based on rec's from other BTB'ers. This is a travesty because I can tell you, from being an avid reader of many other teams' SB Nation blogs, that the comments on our threads are as good if not better than anything fans of other teams can muster up with their limited grey matter. So, I started with an easy behavioral change here, folks...
NEW BEHAVIOR: Recommend COMMENTS in the threads when they're worthy
Next, and staying on the topic of recommendations, I wanted to bring up the discussion of when, why and how often we recommend posts or comments. This will sound like a criticism (and maybe it is) of our community, but I have too often seen some thought-provoking, well-written pieces that don't get recommended because people don't "agree" with them. By the same token, I think other blogs do a better job of making comments within the threads go green because people see value in the comment that made people think or articulated their thoughts in a way that was unique and laudable. Personally, I tend to recommend the posts and comments that spur me to challenge my own positions as well as those I am in alignment with. It may come as a shock to you but people who write posts that essentially say, "Jason Witten is the best all-around TE in the NFL" tend not to get my praise because, well, it's not something I consider novel. Frankly, posts like those leave me wondering why someone felt the need to write it. You just won't find me writing a post on the subject...especially to an audience of Cowboys fans. It would bore me just to type it up. Instead, let me propose that we modify the idea of recommending something because we completely agree with with the underlying premise and also start recommending things that force us to think, react, comment, whatever because they present an idea that you may not have considered. What would happen if the standard was to recommend posts and comments that elicit a strong reaction from you? Might the ensuing discussions be richer and more dynamic? I think so. By the same token, too often have I seen great works from posters get pushed down in favor of a single paragraph post (which BTW are likely to draw bigham's ire so beware) saying not much more than "I love the Cowboys" that got the requisite 3 recs. This phenomenon also makes posters less apt to put work into a longer, more thought-provoking piece of work. Maybe a comment like "Yay" or "I agree" was a better choice in those cases?
NEW BEHAVIOR: Recommend posts & comments that you disagree with as much as those you agree with as long as they are worthy of it
I think we'd all agree the site is about fan participation. If you lurk around, read the posts and never post a comment, then, while you may not know it, you're making the task of writing, for those who do, far less appealing. Case in point, I just recently I saw one of the most detailed statistical write-up's by footballbusker on ANYPA/APNWHATEVER and while I personally tend to toss aside overly statistical views of the game in favor of my own observations, he truly had to have put a ton of work into that piece. While it wasn't, in my opinion worthy of a rec on its own (mainly because I didn't see any real conclusions drawn), I did leave a comment (albeit a somewhat snide one) because I see that comment as a way of letting the writer know that I read it and appreciated the effort. And I truly appreciated the effort! Again, fan participation...
NEW BEHAVIOR: Comment to show you care
BTB obviously attracts bloggers from other team sites (wannabes). I think it is important to set the standard on SB Nation for courtesy and decorum when it comes to their participation on our site. I've seen bloggers like Bigblueview and JimmyK play a robust role in some of the best football discussions ever on this blog. At the same time, I've seen some behavior by BTB'ers that made me think we were no better than the BGN jamokes who banned me years ago (that's another story altogether). Just like many of you, I can be a complete a-hole when I need to be, especially if someone says something idiotic (yeah, that NEVER happens on BTB...right), but to be vitriolic just because someone has an affiliation with another team, even a rival, displays an intolerance and narrow-mindedness that BTB just has to rise above. I like to think BTB can set the high watermark for the appreciation of ALL viewpoints regardless of who or where they emanate from.
NEW BEHAVIOR: Kill them with kindness (unless they do something to deserve worse...then just kill them)
I also wanted to poke at the front page writers a bit. I try to read all of the front page stuff that gets done for the same reason I try to peruse all of the fanposts. People write so that others will read. In the same way I'd assume they appreciate comments on their articles, I think it's important for them to be participants in the fanpost section more than they have been. I don't just mean tossing out a rec here and there, but also commenting on the topic and thought process of the poster. For instance, there was a myriad of articles written post-draft and I have no idea what most of the front page guys thought of it. Did they like the haul? Did they hate it? I realize there's a need to maintain some sort of literary impartiality to certain things, but too much fence-riding waters down the value of BTB.
NEW BEHAVIOR: Let the voices of the front page writers be heard...in fanposts!
Finally, let me say that the reason I write on BTB is because of the intelligent dialogue around so many topics (sometimes we even talk about football) that tends to sprout when I write a post. I've said before that BTB is like going into a sports bar, albeit without the hot waitresses and the Fat Tire, that has nothing but Cowboys fans sitting at tables with a different topic being discussed at each table. The great part is that one can participate in ALL of these sub-topics concurrently and agree and disagree to their heart's content. I think the notion of what truly connects us as fans of the greatest team in the greatest sport is unique and it's easy to be enthusiastic about this electronically networked gathering of Cowboys fanatics. So, I thank you all again for humoring me as I continue to wax philosophical on all things Cowboys.
GO BTB!!!
Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.
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Comments
Wax on.
Never wane.
Gentlemen, we’re 0-16. Let’s change that.
by tanstaafl on Jun 7, 2011 11:50 AM CDT reply actions 6 recs
I did leave a comment (albeit a somewhat snide one) because I see that comment as a way of letting the writer know that I read it and appreciated the effort
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player
by thebigham on Jun 7, 2011 11:57 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
On a side note
I don’t see the point of rec’n many comments. There is a pretty high standard here at BTB and if a comment gets rec’d in our current state its a huge honor. Where are sites half the thread is green because its just what they do.
Everything is so well written and thought about to differentiate comments by rec’n them is too hard or the whole section would be green! haha.
Though if it does mean that much to you, I would like to start the group of three, that will go around and rec everyone of Terrys comments because quite frankly he speaks the truth a lot of the time!!
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player
by thebigham on Jun 7, 2011 12:01 PM CDT reply actions 6 recs
I've seen some very lengthy comments that could have been fanposts standing on their own
…and while people were appreciative of both the comment and the way it was presented, it didn’t garner any recs. I think it makes no sense at all.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
by 5Blings on Jun 7, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Well done Blings
All points well taken. Guess what happens next. That’s right. Rec’d!
by stargazer33 on Jun 7, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Ring Of Honor Thinking
There is a pretty high standard here at BTB
Too many Rec’s diminish them all.
"You have to have a stronger belief in yourself than the disbelief of others."
Antonio Ramirez Romo
by Far Rider on Jun 7, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
True,
but I’ve been here like a year and a half, and have only seen a few green comments. Surf around other SB sites and will see it done more frequently, and less deservingly… Keep your personal standard high is all…
Give me UR calls! Give me highstepping by CBs and PRs entering the endzone! Give me screaming on the sidelines and headbutting! Give me Fortitude, Solidarity and VIOLENCE! Bring me CHAMPIONSHIPS!
Bring me Ridolin LOL! - B'nSB
by BlueNSilverBlood on Jun 8, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
I'm sparing in the use of my recs. Recommending something just to pump
someone up is like telling a kid who has written a so-so paper that they get an A for effort. It’s grade inflation. When I do rec something, it’s because I think it’s great or it has really made me think. I do comment fairly often, though, and I frequently do it to tell someone I liked their post or comment or whatever.
I agree that we should be nice to visitors unless they earn a smackdown. I violated that the other day and felt awful afterward.
by Fernie67 on Jun 7, 2011 1:54 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
It happens
…but as long as you go back and make amends, all should be forgiven. It is, after all, a blog.
On the subject of recs, I’m not suggesting you go rec crazy at all, and I appreciate that you are judicious with them.
Keep bringing the commentary.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
by 5Blings on Jun 7, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Yeah, I totally apologized for misunderstanding where their comment was
directed and its intent.
by Fernie67 on Jun 7, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Actually, I'll add one more thing: Watch the language, folks. The powers that
be here run a clean board and don’t want “s” and “f” bombs dropped. Doesn’t matter what other boards do; the way this place is run is why it’s the best.
by Fernie67 on Jun 7, 2011 1:57 PM CDT reply actions 7 recs
A-FREAKIN'-MEN!!!
Thanks for catching that.
We need to make this a place where our kids would want to come and read about the Cowboys and their fans, without thinking we’re a bunch of Vulgarians.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
by 5Blings on Jun 7, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Yeah, I'm a moderator here, which mostly means I watch for bad language and
overly aggressive name calling, and sometimes during games, I spend more time hiding obscenities than I do watching the action. I know, heat of the moment and all, but it’s gotta be done.
by Fernie67 on Jun 7, 2011 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
In game threads are sometimes so vulgar that I seldom get on anymore...
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
Fernie,
I know I (and some others,) make a lot of adult comments, barely masked. IYHO as a mediator, do you want it to stop? What about gratuitous pics of models in “Romo” thong bikinis?
Give me UR calls! Give me highstepping by CBs and PRs entering the endzone! Give me screaming on the sidelines and headbutting! Give me Fortitude, Solidarity and VIOLENCE! Bring me CHAMPIONSHIPS!
Bring me Ridolin LOL! - B'nSB
by BlueNSilverBlood on Jun 8, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
An absolutely excellent point.
Go to almost any other site, and the obscene/abusive language is intrusive. I can drop an f bomb with the best of them, but when I am trying to converse with people I largely like and respect (like the people on BTB), I just don’t want that.
And having had one fanpost and I think one comment get rec’d up a level, I am glad that the rec’s are not thrown about indiscriminately. When you get noticed on a site with people like OCC, 5Blings and Chia writing, you have indeed done something.
If at first you don't succeed - blame someone else.
by Tom Ryle on Jun 7, 2011 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I didn’t know you were banned. Looks like April of ‘09, haha. I think you’ve learned your lesson for whatever you did. Unbanned.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/ - Eagles
http://bloggingthebeast.com/ - NFC East
by JimmyK on Jun 7, 2011 1:59 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Thanks Jimmy
I’ve learned Eagle fans have shorter fuses than most.
I’ll strive to be less “incendiary”.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
by 5Blings on Jun 7, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Re-banned.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/ - Eagles
http://bloggingthebeast.com/ - NFC East
by JimmyK on Jun 7, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
You know, I saw that coming...
;-)
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
by 5Blings on Jun 7, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Really
I thought YOU, of all people, had my back.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
I do.
And the ‘sweet’ was not about you being re-banned, it was that I thought Jimmy’s almost instant reply was funny. And instead of going with a tired old ‘ha ha ha’ or ‘:-)’ I thought I’d try something different. Didn’t work that well it appears :-)
by One.Cool.Customer on Jun 7, 2011 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions
We Germans just aren’t a very humorous bunch now, are we?
by One.Cool.Customer on Jun 8, 2011 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRTngtsOY8Q
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/ - Eagles
http://bloggingthebeast.com/ - NFC East
Dont even have to click.
That’s the screaming db keyboard kid, huh? Scary… Wonder what happens when he gets sent to bed with no dessert?
Give me UR calls! Give me highstepping by CBs and PRs entering the endzone! Give me screaming on the sidelines and headbutting! Give me Fortitude, Solidarity and VIOLENCE! Bring me CHAMPIONSHIPS!
Bring me Ridolin LOL! - B'nSB
by BlueNSilverBlood on Jun 8, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Nice reference.
Those two were my fav “team” characters in the early episodes…
“What would you do if I came up to you sniffing and pawing at your crotch?”
“If you did it, sir?”
Give me UR calls! Give me highstepping by CBs and PRs entering the endzone! Give me screaming on the sidelines and headbutting! Give me Fortitude, Solidarity and VIOLENCE! Bring me CHAMPIONSHIPS!
Bring me Ridolin LOL! - B'nSB
by BlueNSilverBlood on Jun 8, 2011 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Nice
BTW, I like your new site. Why don’t you post something once in a while? LOL.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
Oh come on!!!
How does this get rec’d tot he point of going green?!?!?! Really? REALLY?!?!?!
Don’t you people read??? What happened to only rec’ing things that are WORTHY?!?!?!
Ugh!
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
Gotta ask,
What got you banned, Blings? Side story!
Give me UR calls! Give me highstepping by CBs and PRs entering the endzone! Give me screaming on the sidelines and headbutting! Give me Fortitude, Solidarity and VIOLENCE! Bring me CHAMPIONSHIPS!
Bring me Ridolin LOL! - B'nSB
by BlueNSilverBlood on Jun 8, 2011 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Jimmy:
Think I could get on that banned appeal? I think mine was for having something ridiculous as my sig and posting there, the first game back after 44-6 time frame. Did not use SBNation responsibly :)
FEAR the STAR.
5Blings can you email me?
thanks bro
SB Nation's Dallas Cowboys Site, Blogging The Boys | Follow me @KDP10for10
Flood The Block Radio on THEFLOW, every Tuesday 730p on www.rocktheflow.com | The new social pulse of the DMV.
by KD Drummond on Jun 7, 2011 2:44 PM CDT reply actions 6 recs
Let's turn the whole thread green!
Recommend everything!!
by Luke. on Jun 7, 2011 3:15 PM CDT reply actions 6 recs
Hahaha, Yes!
Just trying to get people into the spirit of your post. Now we’ve exercised and loosened up our recommend fingers in this thread we can better put your advice into effect :)
Oh, and on the subject of front pagers commenting on the fanposts
I occasionally comment, although I do try and read alot. But writing for the front page takes up alot of time, which I previously had to read the fanposts in addition to the front page stuff.
Articles that take research sprinkled in with newsworthy ones, 10-15 a week, takes a lot of time. I try really hard to read each comment on one of my posts, because you all are gracious enough to speak on something I put up. It’s an honor to take on that responsibility, but it does take away from me reading everything that goes up.
As for rec’ing, I normally reserve that for a concept that I hadn’t though of, or something I planned to address and the poster covered the basis of what I would have written. I guess everyone rec’s in their own way.
You are right though, BTB is less forthcoming with the rec button than other SB Nation sites. By the same token, BTB FanPosts are of a higher caliber, as a whole, than most other sites. It’s kind of like a post has to be extraordinary to get rec’d here, where as other sites a really good post gets a rec.
SB Nation's Dallas Cowboys Site, Blogging The Boys | Follow me @KDP10for10
Flood The Block Radio on THEFLOW, every Tuesday 730p on www.rocktheflow.com | The new social pulse of the DMV.
by KD Drummond on Jun 7, 2011 3:18 PM CDT reply actions 6 recs
Brown noser
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
by 5Blings on Jun 7, 2011 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
I literally just found out
that you could even rec a comment i always wondered what a green comment was i’ve seen so few i never really asked. there are definitly a bunch of commentors that i’d have rec’d in the past guys like ScarletO WhiteWolf and many others i enjoy reading their perpective on the matter, cuz it’s usually a paragraph or more and though it long i give every comment the read. I very much like this post and will definitly be utilizing this new found feature to me.
Roger: Hey, with this mortar launcher, we can get back at the kid who went all Tom Sizemore on your eye!
Steve: Oh, I wish I could get back at him. I'm gonna dress up as a girl and get him to have sex with me and then say "Ha! I'm not a girl! You just had sex with a boy that hates you!"
Roger: Yes, let's leave that plan between you, me, and the string of therapists who won't be able to help you.
American Dad
by Cowboys_Attack on Jun 7, 2011 3:26 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
And there it is...
these people you mention (and others) take the time to really add weight to the threads with their longer-than-average input and it’s a shame that their insightful commentary goes without being “greened”.
Even a commentator wants to know that people appreciate a more expansive, well-worded piece that requires more time and effort on their part.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
but how is a rec any different then someone replying saying i agree of +9000 ?
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player
that is almost always what i do
but i agree with blings that the longer more insightful comments do deserve a rec. i use the + whatever number for the shorter comments the ones that dont really provoke thought or shed new light on something for me its used for things i just plain agree with!
Roger: Hey, with this mortar launcher, we can get back at the kid who went all Tom Sizemore on your eye!
Steve: Oh, I wish I could get back at him. I'm gonna dress up as a girl and get him to have sex with me and then say "Ha! I'm not a girl! You just had sex with a boy that hates you!"
Roger: Yes, let's leave that plan between you, me, and the string of therapists who won't be able to help you.
American Dad
by Cowboys_Attack on Jun 7, 2011 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Great question
I think it calls attention to the comments that C_A and I are talking about.
I don’t suggest that it be overdone, but I think BTB is far too conservative when it comes to rec’ing comments.
On the subject of fanposts, commenting (showing you read it) and agreeing with a +9000 lets the writer know you’re philosophically aligned with the premise, but perhaps the premise wasn’t all that novel or groundbreaking, so maybe not worthy of a rec, especially because those with limited time to read will generally focus on those posts the community has dubbed worthy of a rec for the reasons I mentioned above.
Too liberal a use of recs will, again, push down those posts that the community thinks should be thought of as “must-read’s”.
Again, just my view and I’m open to alternative lines of thinking.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
by the way
Blings thats some signature you’ve got there I mean wow I got a good laugh from that!
Roger: Hey, with this mortar launcher, we can get back at the kid who went all Tom Sizemore on your eye!
Steve: Oh, I wish I could get back at him. I'm gonna dress up as a girl and get him to have sex with me and then say "Ha! I'm not a girl! You just had sex with a boy that hates you!"
Roger: Yes, let's leave that plan between you, me, and the string of therapists who won't be able to help you.
American Dad
by Cowboys_Attack on Jun 7, 2011 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
If there is anything we wish to change in the child, we should first examine it and see whether it is not something that could better be changed in ourselves.
-Carl Jung
what a joke
I like to think BTB can set the high watermark for the appreciation of ALL viewpoints regardless of who or where they emanate from
5Blings …
Your self-aggrandizing is something that I would probably attribute to your parents telling you it didn’t matter if you lost 59-0 against a team that out worked you because they weren’t "really keeping score". I keep score. The generation of kids who never got a spanking from daddy.
Selective listening doesn’t do you any favors in the real world.
But guess what, setting all of that aside, every time you post something I disagree with, you can expect to see my rebuttal. What you choose to do or not do with it…well, that’s up to you.
Blogging is just crazy like that.
Ain’t it a bitch?
5Blings …
I think you should rename yourself;
How about Hypocrite in Thick and Thin?
After all, HiTaT sounds better than FiTaT anyway…kinda sorta like you being all gangsta but with a calculator instead of a piece.
he no longer responds to me (or at least that’s what he says…let’s see how long it lasts) because he abhors dissent over the idea that his statistical interpretations should be seen as synonymous with the word of God. It’s very Taliban-esque.
Hmmm…Taliban…TiTaT? Worth considering, if only because of the endless innuendo opportunities.
5Blings …
Regardless, you and Jason Garrett seem to share a great deal, philosophically. I expect he’ll be out of a job soon. I hope yours isn’t in similar danger.
5Blings …
Back away from the spreadsheet and the scatter plot and move closer to your TV. You’ll see a whole new game.
5Blings …
Do I think that being aggressive in the manner you’ve displayed makes you look like a little boy with Halo 3 as his internet guide to common courtesy and online behavior? You betcha.
5Blings …
you lack the ability to create an original thought without a block-quote or stat box from someone’s web
BTW Blings … why don’t you post all the mean and awful quotes I’ve written about you so we can compare behavior.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jun 7, 2011 3:37 PM CDT reply actions 8 recs
Well, first, thanks for commenting on my post
I knew you were still an avid reader regardless of your unwillingness to comment.
Like I said, I can be an a-hole (ask every girlfriend I’ve ever had). But those are things I would say to you at the sports bar if you tossed a spreadhseet at me and told me the things you told me. And no, I’m not going to blockquote the stuff you said, mainly because you said things that I hope you, in hindsight, regret.
BTW, you also said you write for people unlike me, who refuse to see things your way. I relish the opportunity to re-engage with you on a different level, assuming you’re up to being challenged when I feel the need to object.
Otherwise, again, I appreciate that you took the time to read the submission and comment.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
by 5Blings on Jun 7, 2011 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
well I have the worst english skills
I will admit it
but put in a math class or a chem lab
I will outdo you all
so please for the grammar an spelling errors
by cowboyzz11 on Jun 7, 2011 3:43 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Classiest site on BTB!!!
I’m in aggreement with what most have said here. Rec’s are tough to come by on this site, which make them valuable. Love the way this ship is running. I find we are more respectful of “outsiders” than most, and I honestly was surprised at the almost complete absence of obsenities. Keep up the good work BTB.
Anyone else wondering why Romo's talking to the media about the "Secret Practices"?
by Feeling Blue & Silver on Jun 7, 2011 3:54 PM CDT reply actions
Rec's are the drug of choice for most writers
There’s nothing more rewarding for a writer to check his post the next morning and to find that he’s just accumulated more rec’s. So if you want more posts from a particular fanposter, make sure to rec his or her stuff, because that is the surest way to get him or her to write more. Like a junkie, they’ll keep coming back and write more to get more rec’s.
My name is Lars and I am a rec junkie: A little over two years ago I followed a link from somewhere to BTB. I was impressed by the quality of content on the front page and by the high level of discourse, so I started lurking. A couple of weeks later, and after getting a feel for the place and site etiquette, I jumped into the fray with a couple of comments.
One of the first replies to my comments was by Luke. who replied: "Excellent comment. Great info thanks. You should have made a Fanpost out of this." YES! My first reply, and a good one right away. Wooohoooo.
Aaron Novinger was also very complimentary on some of my early comments (OMG! One of the front page writers noticed me! That sure made my day). A couple of weeks later I tried my hand at my first fanpost, got more positive feedback and continued. Bad Knees (when he still had a spell checker at his disposal), conjunction, 5Blings, Terry and many others all had early and friendly comments that made me feel right at home here.
The rec’s kept piling up, and where I had posted perhaps once every three weeks, I soon began posting once a week and increased that through the season to about three posts a week. And then one day I found an email from Dave in my inbox, asking if I might be interested in joining the crew on the front page.
I guess what I’m trying to say is I agree with Blings. If you want to read more stuff, rec more stuff.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jun 7, 2011 4:38 PM CDT reply actions 6 recs
HA!
5Blings…and many others all had early and friendly comments that made me feel right at home here.
We all make mistakes. :-)
Ah yes, I remember it now, you and BishopWest throwing so many facts at people they could barely see straight. I think you both started the statistical revolution on BTB. What happened to the unfounded statements that were made as though they were the gospel?!?!?!?
Nowadays, you’ve gotta have a University study and a couple of patents pending behind you before you can make a claim like “Bradie James is still serviceable at ILB”.
Times have changed…
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
You know,
at some point it actually started bothering me that people only thought of me as a stats guy. Thankfully, that phase passed quickly.
And I think BishopWest’s claim to fame precedes mine.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jun 7, 2011 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the stat revolution has been great for the blog
The statistical breakdown posts don’t take anything away from the opinion posts they just add to them. There’s plenty of space here for posts of all types. The only people who should fear the stats guru’s are people who post factually incorrect rants.
It's all in the mix
While I’m somewhat partial to quantitative posts, I think I’d get bored pretty quickly if that was all we had on the blog. I really love some of the tape breakdowns that Brandon used to do and that Chandus still does – those are posts that I simply cannot do. I also love all the opinion stuff because they generate discussions from which I often learn more than from the original post.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jun 8, 2011 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I also enjoy MusicCityNorm's preseason watch episodes...
where he picks a young player or two and breaks down their play by play to see how they’re progressing. Anybody who can make the preseason more interesting deserves a hat tip.
by Luke. on Jun 8, 2011 4:01 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Good point
there are many different formats that deserve recognition. Chia’s stuff, lissyyyyy’s highly anticipated posts, some deep, deep stuff by ScarletO and much much more (and I know I’m doing a lot of people a disservice by not mentioning more names).
It’s really the diversity of thought and opinion that I like.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jun 8, 2011 4:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Absolutely it has. More than anything,
I think the great thing about the increasing use of stats has been the fact that it leads to a lot more people getting kept honest about what they can and cannot factually back up. No longer is it so easy to make assertions about tendencies, run-pass ratios, or what have you because there is someone running the numbers or play-by-play log to make sure that matches up with reality. Nothing is really more rewarding for myself than seeing something I disagree with, doing some research, and figuring out that the numbers or the play-by-play doesn’t back that point up. It not only means that I was right (which is a great feeling), but it allows me to test what I and others see versus what the facts are.
With that being said, I certainly don’t want to read just stat posts. But seeing them mixed in is what I feel actually leads to the most thought provoking points and arguments. And after all, that is why I come to this blog way more than any other.
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels
Dirk Nowitzki is absolutely the most underrated basketball player in the league right now. He is one of four players all-time to average 25+ points and 10+ rebounds in the playoffs.
by Creasy729 on Jun 9, 2011 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, lets be clear
Just because someone puts up a statistical analysis, it’s seldom the the be-all and end-all of the discussion. Stats are as imperfect (more so in football) as what people observe. It’s the balance and discussion that is enlightening.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
Well the thing is that when you say "stats" you are referring to complicated things like ANYPA and etc.
When I say “stats,” I think I am using a much more encompassing definition that could include things like run-pass ratio numbers, percentage completion, situational numbers (which even you seem to enjoy), and etc.
The fact is that “stats” aren’t some scary thing used by people who love Microsoft Excel and have a love of multi-variable calculus. They can be simple, easy to understand, and factual beyond any assertion (e.g. you can’t change how many run plays JG called). And that is why I think they have such use. The whole ANYPA thing can be debated, but just because that’s more complicated than some stats certainly doesn’t mean they all are.
And no, I am not saying stats are the end all be all, but they absolutely are a way to simultaneously inform and provoke discussion.
If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won the Super Bowl, I would have zero nickels
Dirk Nowitzki is absolutely the most underrated basketball player in the league right now. He is one of four players all-time to average 25+ points and 10+ rebounds in the playoffs.
by Creasy729 on Jun 10, 2011 1:43 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
feeding the addiction
sorry everyone i’m an enabler what can i say…but i’d also say its probably the safest thing to be addicted to!
Roger: Hey, with this mortar launcher, we can get back at the kid who went all Tom Sizemore on your eye!
Steve: Oh, I wish I could get back at him. I'm gonna dress up as a girl and get him to have sex with me and then say "Ha! I'm not a girl! You just had sex with a boy that hates you!"
Roger: Yes, let's leave that plan between you, me, and the string of therapists who won't be able to help you.
American Dad
by Cowboys_Attack on Jun 7, 2011 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Props to me for seeing and encouraging OCC's quality blogging
I know blogging talent when I see it damn it!
I’ve still got no idea how you manage to crank out so much analysis when the seasons on.
Oh and one more thing REEECOOOOMEEENNNDED!
You know, I thought about this a lot
…and I must say that while rec’s matter because it gets your work into the must-read section of the blog, I far prefer the posts that break out into multiple mini-discussions about things football and non-football related.
There’s a very unique balance that goes on in the game of football that exists nowhere else in Americana.
There’s the cerebral portion of the game that revolves around X’s and O’s, the schemes OC’s and DC’s use to thwart the other, the alignments and adjustments and all that goes into that part of the game.
But then there’s that part of the game that is far more primal. For all the statistical backdrops, tendencies and strategic thinking behind the game, each contest is largely decided by which group of contestants can physically dominate and punish their adversary. It’s this part of the game, the absolute unmitigated violence of it all, that conjures up something very animalistic in me and, even if people won’t admit it, is probably what keeps it at the top of the TV ratings scale.
Throw that in with a bunch of these and you have the makings of an event like no other in the world.

That’s why I liken the blog to a tailgate party. Walk a couple steps in any direction and there’s a different spin on things worth discussing.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
by 5Blings on Jun 8, 2011 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
yip, yup, mmmmm hm.
Throw that in with a bunch of these and you have the makings of an event like no other in the world.
I might need a side of hot sauce, too.
Give me UR calls! Give me highstepping by CBs and PRs entering the endzone! Give me screaming on the sidelines and headbutting! Give me Fortitude, Solidarity and VIOLENCE! Bring me CHAMPIONSHIPS!
Bring me Ridolin LOL! - B'nSB
by BlueNSilverBlood on Jun 9, 2011 7:04 AM CDT up reply actions
rec'd
due to pics of cheerleaders
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
by I am Ironman!!! on Jun 10, 2011 4:07 AM CDT up reply actions
For my part
I’m interpreting this post as simply meaning to strike a nice a balance between ensuring BTBs’ high standards of excellence, and yet giving credit where credit is due. Of course, you don’t want to go rec crazy and risk watering down impactful commentary, but the simple act of extending credit is in itself a worthy standard that shouldn’t be rooted out in the interest of another standard. Every step on that fine line is yet another step towards being even better.
by stargazer33 on Jun 7, 2011 4:41 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
NEW BEHAVIOR: STOP BEGGING FOR RECS WITHIN YOUR POST OR IN COMMENTS W/IN YOUR POST
anyone caught doing so should be ineligible for FPOTW and “muted” for a day.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
by HudBaby on Jun 7, 2011 4:58 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
LMAO
That had a Bill Maher “New Rules” vibe to it. Funny stuff.
If you rec the post, I promise I won't beg for any...until the next post
But seriously, I’ve never seen anyone beg for recs.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
Is there any way to change the color of a rec'd post to anything other than green?
I HATE green.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
by HudBaby on Jun 7, 2011 5:00 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
OOH, not THAT is a good point
Is JimmyK on the SB Nation Board of Directors?
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
No, but Dave’s influence is pretty obvious. If you don’t have an avatar, you get a star as the default. OK< so that’s sort of the SBN logo, but it has always bugged me.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/ - Eagles
http://bloggingthebeast.com/ - NFC East
Ah, the "Awesomeness" of the star cannot be denied...
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
wtvr,
is a commie red star. Not a BA BLUENSILVER star!
Give me UR calls! Give me highstepping by CBs and PRs entering the endzone! Give me screaming on the sidelines and headbutting! Give me Fortitude, Solidarity and VIOLENCE! Bring me CHAMPIONSHIPS!
Bring me Ridolin LOL! - B'nSB
by BlueNSilverBlood on Jun 8, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
To the BTB cadre:
If you feel that a fan shot is worthy of putting on the front page, please put it there with the main posts. Other sites do this very effectively and I wonder why we don’t.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
No joke
I’ve deleted 5 fanposts because I didn’t want to feel the thunder.
Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK
That dude cracks me up.
Actually pretty cool. Attacked him pretty personally one time, then came back and apologized. No hard feelings.
Give me UR calls! Give me highstepping by CBs and PRs entering the endzone! Give me screaming on the sidelines and headbutting! Give me Fortitude, Solidarity and VIOLENCE! Bring me CHAMPIONSHIPS!
Bring me Ridolin LOL! - B'nSB
by BlueNSilverBlood on Jun 8, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
We will take that under advisement
This is one of the topics we frequently revisit as we think about where to go with BTB. We don’t currently do it, but that doesn’t mean we’ve ruled it out completely.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jun 7, 2011 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions
isnt that what rabble does?
I like that. But in reality the ppl here turn evero page and read everything. I kno most are like me and hate to see the new comments and must click and ‘z’ then away haha
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player
We do that quite a bit at BGN, and it has its advantages and disadvantages. A few advantages:
- People definitely post more fanshots if there’s a chance it’ll get promoted, and thus, anytime there’s even a whiff of breaking news, somebody will post it in our fanshot section within like 2 minutes. As a result, when I’m on my phone, I’ll often check the fanshot section before the front page.
- More community involvement.
The disadvantages:
- Fanshots unfortunately take you away from the site competely. It doesn’t open up a new window. Hence, if someone clicks on a fanshot, they may not come back during that visit.
- The people that post the fanshots often link to the wrong thing, and we have to change it. For example, PFT might link to someone that broke a story, and the fanshotter will link to PFT instead of the reporter more deserving of the extra traffic. I’ll always try to give the link to the local guy.
- If I write on a topic that someone has already posted a fanshot, they bitch that theirs wasn’t promoted. That’s a little annoying.
There’s more, but I’m blanking.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/ - Eagles
http://bloggingthebeast.com/ - NFC East
I agree with what you are saying 5B
BTB is one of the best fan sites out there and the only one I post on. While we all do not agree on everything it is normally civil and opens new lines of thought. I think anything that can be done to make things better and encourage more interaction is a great thing.
Firstly, we don’t have to put the fanposts with the mainpage posts as I feel like some of the really quality well thought out posts from the front page writers don’t get enough time to shine as it is.
Secondly great idea blings I definitely think we should all be more respecting and uplifting of each other here, you should apologize to FiTaT with that said lol.
Third the worst travesty of all is we don’t support our front page writers enough. You see all the articles linked to on the right hand side? That’s main page stuff that’s recommended by the fanbase and advertised across all sbnation. Suffice to say we are being spoiled by the quality tha has become a staple here – some of that stuff scrolling to your right isn’t even as good as some of our fan posts. We could probably have a Cowboys ticker with all of the high end content being pumped out. In summary we definitely need to start RECing front page articles a lot more.
Know what I would like to see?
Instead of fanpost of the week, how about Cheerleader of the Week?
Full spread (stop it) and bio on a cheerleader, one by one until we know them as well as we know the 4th string long snapper.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
by 5Blings on Jun 7, 2011 7:08 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Don't forget pictures.
Lots and lots of pictures. And video clips.
If at first you don't succeed - blame someone else.
Can you imagine a post on a cheerleader WITHOUT pictures?
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
by 5Blings on Jun 8, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
BTB is the best
I came here from the True Blue Fan Club page… those people basically burn JJ and Romo in effigy every day.
The quality is SO good here I don’t even really read the Mothership anymore. (still listen to the radio shows tho)
by Specific on Jun 7, 2011 7:27 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Jimmy K... finally checked out your website
and it has made it into my bookmarks – I know you’re sooo proud of this accomplishment -
For those of you who have not checked out BloggingthebEAST you need to read Jimmy’s take on the best tackles in the east – http://bloggingthebeast.com/2011/06/06/474/
"There are no traffic jams along the extra mile." ~ Roger Staubach
by TK19 on Jun 8, 2011 7:18 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Very proud. Thanks bud.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/ - Eagles
http://bloggingthebeast.com/ - NFC East
I checked it out...It is pretty good stuff
from an Eagles Fan that is
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
by I am Ironman!!! on Jun 8, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Ha, thanks. I’m way less harsh there than normal – Can’t piss off all the “other” fans right off the bat.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/ - Eagles
http://bloggingthebeast.com/ - NFC East
by JimmyK on Jun 8, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Another great post, 5B.
I agree with everything. It is awesome to have work recommended, and getting my name on front page last week (albeit for nothing more than a fanshot,) was the bomb-diggy! I think we all know when we put work into something and strive to hit the rec’d fanposts, and what was meant to bring info and opinions to light and start conversations. Like PineyWoods said above, being mentioned with you guys is an honor in its own rite.
My favorite thing about this site is that the knowledge makes me to challenge myself, should start rec’ing comments more. As discussed last week, our front page writers don’t get enough recs, either.
And I’ve gotta say, Blings, you got my estrogen flowing. I’m very in touch with my feelings now. Gotta go wrench on the car or kick a puppy or something.
Give me UR calls! Give me highstepping by CBs and PRs entering the endzone! Give me screaming on the sidelines and headbutting! Give me Fortitude, Solidarity and VIOLENCE! Bring me CHAMPIONSHIPS!
Bring me Ridolin LOL! - B'nSB
by BlueNSilverBlood on Jun 8, 2011 11:17 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Shouldn't ours turn blue?
Starting to look like an Eagles blog up in here.. The horror.. The horror..
by Dezstroyer88 on Jun 9, 2011 10:55 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Shall we stage a coup? a demonstration?
BTB Spring?
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
I feel like I just got personally called out
Lol I’ve been lurking here for going on two years, and I read this more than any other blog. My friends actually get annoyed with me regularly when I try to refer them here because of a brilliant post or discussion – but I’ve rarely commented. I’ll certainly make an effort to get in on the discussion from here on out.
There you go!
If we can get more people like yourself to comment, it only serves to enrich the discussions and make people post more frequently. It’s the contributions of the readers that make the whole idea of what connects us in a more visceral way.
Just one caveat…never disagree with me and we’ll get along just fine.
:-)
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
Psst. Don't tell Blings this, but disagreeing with him is way more fun. :)
Welcome to (posting on) the blog!
by Fernie67 on Jun 9, 2011 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
My whole conspiracy theory is becoming a reality...
I KNEW IT!!!
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
a mind is a terrible theing to waste....
thankfully our founding fathers of this great land had a greater understanding of what they decided today would lead us all too in the future.. with this in mind, we all should foster new bloggers and support them to greater heights.. for we know not, that in that one person, who ever they may be, might lead us all to a greater understanding and new enlightenment. i belive here at BTB we all share in this greater path of all things sports and cowboys football. but also while here i have had thepleasure of getting to know the mind and humor of jimmyk and others from the nfc east blogs. the platform here is one where we can all come together and enjoy the comraderie of others and share our insights and make lasting friendships. that ladies and gents is what makes this site and others a pleasure to come too. respect and understanding go hand in hand with what we here …. at BTB should always strive to uphold. by the way.. enjoy emmensly all the good humor here… thanks BTB
woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
cringes... now i just need to proof read my healines loil
woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
not to be a ninny but...
the enter button is your friend…just sayin
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
by I am Ironman!!! on Jun 10, 2011 4:09 AM CDT up reply actions
K.M.H.W.A.
I will give you a hint:
K. My Hairy White A.
Nothing but love though 5Blings….nothing but Love
With the 9th Pick Dallas Selects Tyron Smith...Romo Weeps in Joy, and Bennet says"I might get to go out in the Pass Pattern now!"
by I am Ironman!!! on Jun 11, 2011 4:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Man I've been so damn busy dude.
You know I love me some Cowboys, but I’ve been fixing planes and doing my thang. I promise I’ll be back with a vengeance.
AFB Condensed- New name, same flavor.
I know all too well how life gets in the way of the fun stuff
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
.
and thats.. a wrap .
woman !, dont try to understand em, dont try to make them understand you, for they are a breed apart ! lol
I've been basking in Mavs Championship ambience..
..but what a kickass post to come back to. You’ve hit the nail on the head with this one, bro.
Reeeeeeeeec’d.
FEAR the STAR.
I missed this at the time
I think its a great idea.
I will admit though, 2/3 of my non-fanpost recs are for Dunkman and Seanrude.
Well foyes...
now’s as good a time as any to change your ways.
Rec them comments.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
LOL
15 comments turned green.
That’s got to be a BTB record for a single thread.
OCC, mark it down.
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
by 5Blings on Jun 15, 2011 10:15 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
BOOM-rec'd it
The rec can be a powerful tool when used properly.
Maybe MARY JANE will load up and pass the PEACE PIPE around the conference room and they’ll all get happy in a big hurry, which might just help speed up the process. - HansDat
Great post
My favorite part by far is
NEW BEHAVIOR: Recommend posts & comments that you disagree with as much as those you agree with as long as they are worthy of it
I can sometimes be set in my viewpoint too much and it is great to understand the other side. The threads that everyone would agree with right away tend to be a little stale. I enjoy when people have opposite views and each comes to a better understanding of the other view and their own as well. I’ve learned more about the Cowboys from those back and forth discussions than any homer Cowboys or Redskins fan biased anti-Cowboys fan could accomplish by themselves.

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