Playmaker on the cover of Out Magazine
"I don't see how any African-American, with any inkling of history, can say that you don't have the right to live your life how you want to live your life," he said, according to the magazine. "No one should be telling you who you should love, no one should be telling you who you should be spending the rest of your life with. When we start talking about equality, and everybody being treated equally, I don't want to know an African-American who will say everybody doesn't deserve equality."
11 months ago
Leon
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My prediction is that ten to fifteen years from now, no one will admit to being against gay marriage
Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
Tell that to the overwhelming majority
of voters in central cali. Old prejudices die hard./
Poor guitarist seeking love....
Likes: Long walks on the beach, Candlelit dinners - Ear Melting Metal and Def Rhymes.... Preferably all at once.
What is best in life?
"To Crush your enemies, See them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of their women!"
My Cover of Metallica's Classic "Master of Puppets"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8aDckMo6-Q
And here's my Tribute to Fade to Black
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keGjkAdbKqM
by Nick Castillo on Jul 12, 2011 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Thought of something the other day
With the growing prevalence of single parent families, it seems the only people who really care about getting married nowadays are evangelical Christians and gays.
If at first you don't succeed - blame someone else.
hah
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Jul 14, 2011 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Most of them will be dead in ten to fifteen years
I really believe this is going to be one of those issues that no one will admit to being against. Try finding someone who will admit to voting for George Wallace now. If they admit it at all, they are apologetic about it.
Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
I guarantee in 10-15 years there will be old timers and bible thumpers
who will always oppose and object to gay marriages…those types will never go away.
In Romo we Trust
and they will be marginalized and laughed at, like people who are against miscegenation are these days
Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
Actually the old timers will die off; good point about the bible thumpers, but they will be marginalized.
Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
agreed
there will still be pockets of resentment but the majority of Americans will be for it
by somebodyquiet on Jul 16, 2011 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Or at least not be opposed to it.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
Intersting thing about Irvin
When you listen to him, you realize he is pretty smart under that image of his.
If at first you don't succeed - blame someone else.
by Tom Ryle on Jul 12, 2011 8:26 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
He's done a lot of dumb crap early in his life
people can change
Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith
As a white guy, I might get a lot of crap for saying this,
but there is a homophobic culture in the African-American community. Not necessarily hate, but phobic. That is part of the reasoning behind DeSean Jackson’s comment on satellite radio a few days ago. Calling a black man a “faggot” is a huge insult to them.
As for California’s Prop 8, the mormon church used this phobia to their advantage to defeat gay marriage. A man was on the ballot to be the first minority president, so they knew that African-American voter turnout would be historical. They targeted minority communities with their anti-gay PR campaign. Don’t get me wrong, I am not blaming African-Americans. Asians and Latinos also voted majority anti-gay marriage. I am blaming the mormon church for pouring advertising money into ads directed at minorities.
Good for Micheal Irvin. Slowly but surely, with small steps, our country will truly be equal with “liberty and justice for all”.
- Formerly fan since '65.
I agree.
There is also a homophobic culture in white communities.
There is a homophobic culture in Asian communities.
There is a homophobic culture in Latin communities.
There is a homophobic culture in athlete communities.
There is a homophobic culture in Christian communities.
There is a homophobic culture in Moslem communities.
There is a homophobic culture.
I’m not dissing your point at all fs65. You are absolutely correct. What’s said is that there is homophobia across many different groups.
Being against gay marriage or not agreeing with that lifestyle
is not homophobic. That absolutely needs to be thrown out there.
by Admiral Dallas on Jul 13, 2011 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Bah.
*not necessarily homophobic.
I wish this blog had an edit post button.
by Admiral Dallas on Jul 13, 2011 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions
At one point Mormons said the same exact thing about interracial marriage
Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith
At one point I put fries on top of my stove and cooked them
What exactly are you trying to say?
by Admiral Dallas on Jul 13, 2011 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions
The fact that a man and a man can't reproduce, and neither can a woman and a woman for starters...
That should be a pretty clear indication that something isn’t quite right about doing things that way. I don’t care who says what about it, it’s not natural. And I don’t mean that in a hateful way, I’m just being straight up. It might be naturally occurring, but so is cancer, leukemia, etc… It’s not the way things are intended to work and there is a scientific, psychological, neurological, and medical reason for why some people’s brains are wired that way. Here’s a quick explanation I pulled from Wikipedia (yes I know it’s Wikipedia but this is congruent with what I learned in psychology in college, I just didn’t feel like trying to find and quote a more credible source):
Human sexual orientation and the hypothalamus
According to D.F. Swaab, writing in a July 2008 paper, “Neurobiological research related to sexual orientation in humans is only just gathering momentum, but the evidence already shows that humans have a vast array of brain differences, not only in relation to gender, but also in relation to sexual orientation.”
Swaab first reported on the relationship between sexual orientation in males and the hypothalamus’s “clock”, the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN). In 1990, Swaab and Hofman reported that the SCN of heterosexual men was significantly larger than in women, and the SCN of homosexual men was significantly less than in heterosexual men. Then in 1995, Swaab et al. linked brain development to sexual orientation by treating male rats both pre- and postnatally with ATD, an aromatase blocker in the brain. This produced an enlarged SCN and bisexual behavior in the adult male rats. In 1991, LeVay showed that part of the sexually dimorphic nucleus (SDN), the interstitial nuclei of the anterior hypothalamus (INAH) 3, is twice as large in heterosexual men as and homosexual women, in terms of volume but not number of neurons.
In 2004 and 2006, two studies by Berglund, Lindström, and Savic used Positron Emission Tomography (PET) to observe how the hypothalamus responds to smelling common odors, the scent of testosterone found in male sweat, and the scent of estrogen found in female urine. These studies showed that the hypothalamus of heterosexual men and homosexual women both respond to estrogen. Also, the hypothalamus of homosexual men and heterosexual women both respond to testosterone. The hypothalamus of all four groups did not respond to the common odors, which produced a normal olfactory response in the brain.
(If you want more info on this Google “hypothalamus+sexual orientation” and I’m sure you’ll find plenty of articles.)
Now don’t get me wrong, if some people are that way then fine with me. Doesn’t affect me one bit. But lets not pretend like interracial marriage and gay marriage are the same thing because they’re absolutely not. They’re both social and civil rights issues, but that’s about where the similarities end.
A psychologist would never say this because it’s “unethical” and not “politically correct” but based on the information above I can make a pretty compelling case that homosexuality is actually a disease and could theoretically be cured by advanced neurosurgery at some point in the future (though probably very dangerous to attempt this in reality) if I wanted to. I also believe at some point in the future they’ll be able to detect somebody’s sexual orientation at birth through an MRI or CT scan (if they can’t already). I could turn this into a big heated debate, but I don’t really feel like getting into all that. I simply don’t care enough because like I said whoever somebody chooses to fall in love with or sleep with doesn’t really affect the way I’m going to live my life. Just understand that homosexual marriage =/= interracial marriage. Put all the social and civil stuff aside and compare them on a purely biological level. One is perfectly normal and biologically efficient, the other isn’t.
And again, just because things don’t work biologically how they’re supposed to and those people’s genes are going to get phased out of the gene pool unless they use unconventional methods for reproduction doesn’t make it socially unacceptable. Live and let live as far as I’m concerned. It just bugs me for some reason when people try to equate gay issues to race issues. That’s lazy and overly generalizing social issues. They’re not the same thing.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
A psychologist wouldn't say what you are saying
Correct.
However, a biologist wouldn’t say what you are saying either. Because it’s the wrong reading of the data. To pathologize homosexual male brain development is to also pathologize heterosexual female brain development. Neither is a disease in a biological sense, nor abnormal in a psychological sense. This study shows that these parts of the brain have developed similarly in heterosexual women and homosexual men, incidentally in the brain centers related to empathy.
Let me concede that two women cannot reproduce on their own. However, it is kinda fun to watch them try.
I think not being able to read science is a disease. You will not like the cure. You are reading this wrong. You are correct that these are social issues (and a matter of civil rights and human rights), but socially defined norms are the problem, not the sexuality of the individual.
lol
Let me concede that two women cannot reproduce on their own. However, it is kinda fun to watch them try.
No doubt.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
And I'm not reading it wrong.
My psychology professor was a licensed psychologist and he said the same thing about the hypothalamus in relation to sexual orientation. I’m just being adversarial with the disease thing.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
I hear you
But there’s a reason he didn’t also call it a disease. You are being adversarial.
I had a biology professor that couldn’t find a book that taught the way he wanted to teach, so he wrote his own notes. The notes included statements that rape was natural and that brown people were taking over because they reproduced out of control. His misreadings were actually comparable to what you’re inferring. Dude is a PhD, was a department chair; you find these kinds of things even in academia.
He no longer teaches out of his notes. Don’t know if he teaches at all. Even tenure wasn’t going to save him from the new department chair, in spite of her well-developed hypothalamus.
Yeah I'd say that's slightly different than what I'm suggesting, haha.
Like I said, I’m mostly just being facetious with the whole disease thing anyway. I could personally care less what people do behind closed doors.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
Which part?
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
all of it
But this is football so lets just say I disagree. One study/theory does not make fact
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player
Well, it's not just one study or theory.
That’s just one account of it. It’s a pretty widely accepted concept across the field at this point.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
Well, I am a neuropsychologist, and your understanding of the material is overly simplified.
It’s quite a bit reductionistic and begs the question. I understand that you heard some basic neurologic information and are framing your thoughts on the topic around it, but in my – expert – opinion, you’re conclusions are a bit of a stretch.
Please, elaborate.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
Seriously, I love this kind of thing.
If you’re that well versed in psychology let me know why I’m wrong. I love talking to people who actually know what they’re talking about. :)
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
No, thank you though.
First, it’s incredibly difficult – not to mention time consuming – to discuss such incredibly complicated and charged topics on an internet forum.
Further:
I don’t care who says what about it …
Why would I want to have a discussion with a person that takes this viewpoint?
Thank you, but, politely, no thanks.
Okay, whatever.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
Now don’t get me wrong, if some people are that way then fine with me. Doesn’t affect me one bit.
If you actually believe this, what is your argument, if any, against gay marriage? If two guys down the street from you are married, how does it impact you? Is it just the “ick” factor?
Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
It doesn't affect me at all.
It just bugs me for some reason when people use the race vs. sexual orientation argument.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
I believe that there is a great deal of relevance to the comparison.
Remember that simply because two things, that are immensely complex, are compared to one another, does not mean that people are equating them with one another in every way.
If I say that some of the elements that led to the Guatemalan armed conflict of the 70s/80s were elements that also contributed to the conflict in Viet Nam in the 60s/70s, it means that I’m comparing socio-political and economic forces that led to a brutal civil conflict. It does mean that the Guatemalan and Vietnamese people experienced the exact same situation in every way. I believe that, like with the neurological information you quoted above, you’re oversimplifying things. And my experience has taught me that very few things in life are simple. As always, I may be wrong.
You also make quite a few statements about how this doesn’t affect you at all. the gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.
Should sterile men and women be allowed to marry since they cannot reproduce?
Your argument is kind of silly, and frankly rather offensive since you compare homosexuality to cancer.
MLK’s widow and Bishop Desmond Tutu compare gay issues to race issues. Are they lazy? You just don’t like the comparison because then people like you would necessarily be compared to those who opposed rights for black people. And you don’t want to come to terms with that unfortunate truth.
Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith
You're making assumptions about me.
The cancer comment was just meant to ruffle some feathers. Again, I could care less about same sex marriage. Doesn’t matter at all to me.
And this means nothing to me either.
MLK’s widow and Bishop Desmond Tutu compare gay issues to race issues. Are they lazy?
They are not the end all be all of authority on this subject just like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson aren’t the end all be all on black issues, regardless of what they think.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
So your attempt at "ruffling some feathers"
is to make incredibly outrageous and offensive statements? I don’t need to make assumptions about you. That says it all.
Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith
Well, don't beat around the bush.
I’m kind of a prick. I freely admit that.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
You keep saying that.
I probably could care less, in all honestly. I’m capable of extreme amounts of IDGAF. Much more than what I pay to this issue. For example I wouldn’t have even commented if I could have cared less…
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
I think you mean that you could NOT care less about gay marriage
but I do not think that is really true. It seems to me that you care about it quite a bit, given the number of times you have posted on this thread
Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
I'm just responding to everyone that keeps responding to me.
That’s how conversations work.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
by TXHC on Jul 24, 2011 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The fact that a man and a man can’t reproduce, and neither can a woman and a woman for starters…
That should be a pretty clear indication that something isn’t quite right about doing things that way.
if you’re interested in testing your analysis, you might want to consider how it is that homosexuality exists if it’s so unnatural. You say that
And again, just because things don’t work biologically how they’re supposed to and those people’s genes are going to get phased out of the gene pool
you might want to ask yourself this: how has your ‘phasing out’ not happened already? When would that happen? In another 2 million years of evolution?
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jul 26, 2011 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Mormons
didn’t even allow blacks into the church . . . something in the Book said blacks were inferior
Yeah, Mormons are a whole other can of worms.
"The Angels are like the villain in the movie that isn't dead until he's been stabbed 150 times in the bath tub, yet he still might come back up one more time." - Eric Nadel
Why?
So you can feel better?
Smiles ahead
by accidental innuendo on Jul 14, 2011 6:46 AM CDT up reply actions
I hate the term homophobic.
It is another case of using language to frame the argument.
I would argue that many or even most people who disagree with gay marriage or take issue with some aspects of the gay culture are not afraid of anything. They just have moral or religious objections. In some cases, they just don’t understand it because they find the thought of sexual relations with someone of their own sex just icky. The use of the term “homophobia” makes it sound like they are all irrational and frightened. I think it is largely misapplied, but like so many things, it has become accepted by society at large, led by a sympathetic media.
I will concede there is a lot of hatred for homosexuality in many cultures. However, I will also argue that many of us, including me, are just tired of seeing so much in the media about gay this and gay that. The entertainment industry seems to have a much higher percentage of gay people in it than the world most of us live in. I’m suffering from gay exposure fatigue.
If at first you don't succeed - blame someone else.
I'm pretty sure this is some degree of homophobia, and I say this with no mean intent
The point is that you are as comfortable with gay being a normal part of this world as you are hopefully with race.
Now, I’m not saying it is easy because I also admit to being ignorant of some aspects of gay culture. However, this should not be misdirected into hate and dismissal of them instead of being reflected inward, so that we may increase our tolerance and acceptance of the wonderfully varied world we live in.
Smiles ahead
by accidental innuendo on Jul 16, 2011 6:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Do you hate the word anti-semite also?
Secondly, how much diversity is their on television sitcoms? In fact there is a lot less diversity on sitcoms than there is in real life. But why aren’t you complaining about that?
The reason why the media is talking about “gay this and gay that” is because gay couples currently do not have the same rights as straight couples, and the movement to get them their rights is currently at its peak. Thus, it is a major news story right now.
Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith
No, although I prefer the terms anti-jewish and anti-arabic.
There are some of all three actually. Anti-semite would be a combination of the two. Obviously some anti-jewish people are not anti-arabic, and vice versa, and some hate all of them. And gays. And women who speak their mind. And all people who don’t look and think just like them.
And I’m not anti-gay. Just sometimes feel the issue is being overexposed. I work with several openly gay people who don’t make an issue of it. It just is, and that’s how I like it to be. I much prefer to deal with individuals than groups. I hate overt prejuidice in all forms.
Anyone who is a fundamentalist or literalist in interpreting the Torah, the Bible, or the Koran is faced with a basic conflict over gay issues, because all three say fairly clearly it is a sin. I have no idea how that will ever resolve itself, because fundamentalism seems to be growing. I walked away from that a long time ago, but I do feel a little sorry for those who are caught between their beliefs and the changing nature of the world.
If at first you don't succeed - blame someone else.
oh you have gay coworkers. I see well that changes everything.
Is that like having a black friend?
Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith
I knew that would get thrown back at me.
Still true.
Probably shouldn’t have thrown my two cents in. I just feel that the gay issue gets far more attention in the media than it merits. The impact of these things is far less than things that are totally ignored, such as the impact the growing percentage of single parent families is having on society and the casual acceptance of violence to resolve minor issues. Also, the gay community by and large ally themselves with people who I strongly disagree with on most every other issue, so I get a little cranky with that, which is not totally just, but typical human nature.
If at first you don't succeed - blame someone else.
I would hope that you always feel comfortable throwing your two cents, assuming that it's respectfully done, (as it seems to me it always has been).
I happen to feel that the “gay issue” gets far less attention in the media than it merits, and the attention that the media does give it seems to me to often have a flavor of sensationalism.
You say that you much prefer to deal with individuals, rather than groups, but then you say that the gay community “by and large ally themselves with ….” There’s a touch of contradiction in these two statements. The gay community is not one unified voice, just as during women’s suffrage, the female community was not one unified voice, and during the civil rights movement, the African-American community was not one unified voice. The media may like to portry it that way, but individuals that identify with the gay community represent many, many different viewpoints, just as people who represent with the straight community do.
The "by and large" was meant to imply exceptions.
Some gun loving four wheel riding rednecks with missing teeth are liberals, too, but not many.
If at first you don't succeed - blame someone else.
The term "heterosexist" may be more applicable to your line of thinking then.
“Homophobia” gets thrown around quite a bit, and it can make people uncomfortable for the reasons you suggest. I would suggest that heterosexism is currently a greater problem in our culture.
Gay Exposure Fatigue
is a fact . . . and I agree with you. But, there is truth to black and latino culture being unaccepting of same sex stuff. You see the HIV and AIDS numbers increasing at an alarming rate among these groups – in large measure because all of the same sex stuff must occur below the radar screen. As far as gay exposure fatigue, there is an equal force of gay slur overload in the jock community.
As a African-American male, I am very much inclined to agree with you
African-American culture is very much bred on machismo in the younger generation( be a thug, a gangsta [hell, some in the culture would say the opposite of gangsta is gay, although Omar Little may disagree with you there], be a man, no homo, etc) and faith in the older generation (their Christian beliefs won’t allow them to accept gay people, men especially.) There was actually an Urban music station in my area that went in on Irvin for posing on that cover in the way he did.
I 100% agree with Irvin and think it’s terrible that my people, a group that had to fight for their rights and were horribly discriminated against, are doing the same to another group because they have the audacity to be who they are.
I’ve always thought that, probably, the hardest thing to be in America is African-American and gay, because society shuns them (for being both) and their family usually shuns them (for being gay). I give big ups to guys like LZ Granderson who don’t hide who they are, and as a straight man, I respect their struggle to be as equal as the people MLK and Rosa Parks fought for in the 1960s.
by CowBearsFan on Jul 13, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Interesting
I’ve always thought one of the main reasons disco was so despised—even more so than the arrival of hip-hop and rap—was it flaunted two minority cultures at the same time. It was unmistakeably African-American music with a strong gay subculture. White people have been panicking over the arrival of each new African-American musical genre since Louis Jordan, but when it was coupled with the presence of overt gay culture, that was just too much for the conventional wisdom to handle. So what I’m saying is from my experience, I agree being African American and gay must be a very hard burden to bear. Although as a straight white guy, it’s a burden I can’t begin to imagine how hard it is.
Side note: As much as disco was scorned by whites from 1975 to 1979, once the so-called New Romantic bands from Britain adopted it just a few years later, the disco beat was suddenly super cool. Which to me was incredible sad, because white fans embraced a pale imitation of the great music made by Donna Summer, Chic, The Trampps and others.
Michael Irvin is a tough guy
who speaks what he believes. And I agree with him.
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Jul 14, 2011 12:43 PM CDT reply actions
so many sports casters are ridiculously conservative (like Joe Buck) that’s nice to hear someone else
check out my bands nanoSMASH and Day vs Night
by AustonianAggie on Jul 14, 2011 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I really like how he compliments his cowboys teamates:
“I believe, if a teammate had said he’s gay, we would have integrated him and kept moving because of the closeness,” Irvin said, according to the magazine.
I am very proud to be a Cowboys fan and a Michael Irvin fan.
"Confidence doesn't come out of nowhere. It's a result of something... hours and days and weeks and years of constant work and dedication." --Roger Staubach
He specifically mentions Troy in the article
It’s interesting, because he says he never asked Troy; but it wouldn’t have mattered, because he was Troy. The impetus being the outing of Troy by Bayless and allegedly Switzer.
I posted this because I’m proud of Mike and the team, but also because I think it allows people in this sort of forum to discuss things they don’t normally discuss. I’m proud of BTB too.
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