Odd News: Stats Continue to Praise Cowboys Offensive Line
But who deserves the credit? We have seen it, and we've debated it before, but statistical analysis continues to praise the performance of the Cowboys offensive line in 2010. Are so many Cowboys fans, including myself, just imagining the memories of bad pass protection and no running lanes? I understand mass hysteria could exaggerate existing fears, but has there really been an outbreak of mass delusional behavior? Throughout the unofficial offseason, we have seen Cowboys scoring well on ProFootballFocus' individual o-line grades and FootballOutsider advanced stats rating the group 12th in the league. Hold the presses, PFF now returns with grades for team o-lines with the Cowboys ranked 9th.
Why did we waste a Top 10 pick on Tyron Smith!? I was a staunch supporter of the T. Smith draft pick, oddly enough at #9, but perhaps my sarcasm is ill spent when the stats continue to point in the opposite direction. It gets even stranger. Obviously the Cowboys had an effective passing attack and Jason Garrett deserves an incredible amount of credit for the o-line grades because he virtually removed all 5- and 7-step drops from his playbook and protected Romo and Kitna as best he could through play calling while still providing a potent attack. However, PFF rankings are broken down into subdivision grades and the 9th rank for the Cowboys is broken up as follows: Run Blocking 5th, Pass Blocking 17th, Penalties 28th
Initial reaction, an o-lines' proclivity to penalties should affect their overall ranking more. Mindboggling observation, how can the run rank be so high? Cowboys rushing yard average ranked them 15th in the league in 2010. Total rushing yards 16th in the league and 21st in rushing TDs. I know they started playing better when Garrett took over as interim and brought back pads to practice, but am I losing my mind?
Folks, sometimes it may act like a dog and look like a dog, but it's just Goofy.
A closer look and another newly reported stat of interest could help clear things up and defend our sanity.
Like most of you, I would need a statistical guru like O.C.C. to help me figure out the strange brew of statistics and calculations that went into PFF's ranking system that deemed the Cowboys the fifth best run blocking team in the NFL. There is a reason there are advanced degrees involving statistics and perhaps we need some 3rd party council that can translate the formulas to the public. I understand basic NFL stats can be foolish indicators at times, and efficiency stats must always be considered alongside total yards, and there are some advanced stats that can prove very enlightening and the guys at PFF do some great work.
Statistics are obviously an important measurable to consider and I use them all the time when evaluating players and teams' performances, but never without context. Who was the opponent? How did the rest of the team play? Grass or Turf? Snow game in an open stadium or first game of the season with a shortened training camp due to a lockout? In my mind, the game of football has too many variables to simply accept statistical findings as irrefutable proof without considering what factors invariably weren't measured - or even overly weighted - making rankings and grades over the course of a season even more open to misinterpretations and/or misrepresentations. Sometimes numbers are not enough to measure a man's worth, especially for fans like me who think intangibles prove a vital influence over the course of a game, a team's season, and a player's career.
Sometimes, grades are calculated in a way where a player who missed a few games due to injury scores lower than a teammate who played worse in games but for the entire season, take Kyle Kosier and Leonard Davis for example. Sometimes, individual player rankings are determined by game-day events that are highly influenced by other players or even by the humans watching tape to judge if a player won or lost a matchup when not directly involved in the play. Sometimes, statistics simply don't paint the entire picture. For example, Vinnie Iyer at Sporting News has a couple of pieces on underrated NFL stats and recently wrote about quarterback production against the blitz in 2010.
It's a good read and I recommend it, but I'd also consider some of the missing variables. Looking at the Top 10 list I think that Drew Brees did not have the running game and o-line help of some of the other QBs on the list and should probably be rated higher considering more than just the stats. Eli Manning threw 25 interceptions last season and only 6 were while being blitzed? Josh Freeman continues to impress me, especially considering he ranked 24th in passing attempts so he had fewer opportunities to compile stats, or perhaps the young man has already learned how to read blitzes and effectively audibles to the appropriate hot routes but rarely calls a blitz-busting run audible.
Perhaps the most interesting thing to note is what Iyer has to say about the Cowboys.
Teams to Watch in 2011
Dallas Cowboys. When you combine what Tony Romo (109.1, 5 TDs, INT) and Jon Kitna did (90.6, 8 TDs, 5 INTs) did in blitz situations last season, you have a passer who would have fit in the top five above. Considering two Cowboys quarterbacks enjoyed a high level of success means Jason Garrett's offense is made to take advantage of zealous defenses. Wide receiver Miles Austin and tight end Jason Witten are the ultimate checkdown options who quickly find mismatches in coverage.
This year, there should be more promise, assuming Romo stays healthy for the long haul. It also helps that second-year wideout Dez Bryant will have a full season of beating single coverage downfield and rookie running back DeMarco Murray will raise Dallas' effectiveness in the screen game.
The Cowboys have remained entrenched as a top 10 passing offense the past three years, but this season they should return to the top five-where they were in '07.
I agree with virtually everything he said, but I do question the idea that Romo + Kitna = Top 5 QB against the blitz. I think this is another ranking Garrett should get a lot of credit for since he compensated for all the pressure his QBs were facing by utilizing a quick strike offense, thus also making them more effective against all the blitzing from NFC East rivals and the numerous opponents with aggressive 3-4 defenses. Garrett's play calling is making the Cowboys o-line "play better" than what they are and statistical rankings should not be considered predictive proof that the Cowboys will have a good offensive line - or even offensive performance - with the same starting lineup in 2011.
However, Romo had a higher QB rating than any other QB in the league in blitzing situations as well as one of the best TD/INT ratios in those situations. Even the favorable o-line rankings previously described and Garrett's play calling can't account for all that success. Perhaps we have not been giving Romo enough credit for making the o-line grade out so well. With so much talent at the skill positions and Garrett and Romo at the helm, the Cowboys offense could become unstoppable if the well-graded offensive line does not limit the playbook next year.
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Er...
Perhaps we have not been giving Romo enough credit for making the o-line grade out so well.
I’ve been preaching it, but I mostly get flack when I say it.
by Fernie67 on Jul 15, 2011 8:21 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Only from a few
most fans recognize the Cowboys are fortunate have number 9 calling the signals.
Don't believe everything you think.
+1
Romo’s quick release is up there with Marino’s but Romo can scramble too.
by liquidblake on Jul 15, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah his first couple of seasons i lauded his scrambling
even if it was junior-high-esque. i could not take another year of some old statue that likes to scan the entire field, stands, sidelines, and behind his back before he threw the ball and got knocked senseless time after time that by the time they are marching up for the game winning drive he tries to throw it quick and just hands the defense the game-losing pick
really the only other qb that may survive behind this o-line is vick and maybe rivers and roethlisberger. the patient analytical type need not apply to get behind this cement-shoed o-line
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Jul 15, 2011 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
That's the problem a lot of Cowboys fans don't appreciate what we have with Romo.
Fans are so jaded about Aikman and Roger wishing they’d “come walking through that door,” that they fail to appreciate what we currently have with Romo.
Remember how god awful that line was at keeping Bledsoe upright? That line didn’t get any better, Romo, coming in with his athleticism, quick release, and mobility is what made this line look better. That Oline should thank him for saving their ass, including Davis, and Gurode.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jul 15, 2011 8:35 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Romo definently makes the line look better than it is.
As brought to light by KD’s BOTB series, we are used to having greatness thoughout our roster. As Keg mentioned, there could be a mass hysteria brought on by our elevated expectations.
I would tend to say that we as fans were close to reality though, supported by the fact that we drafted three o-linemen and a FB who is gifted at blocking.
The #5 run blocking is the most polarizing stat, IMO. I don’t think many of us would have said we were that good. Given our RBs’ aversion to broken tackles, they can’t really cover sins the way Romo does in the passing game.
Give me UR calls! Give me highstepping by CBs and PRs entering the endzone! Give me screaming on the sidelines and headbutting! Give me Fortitude, Solidarity and VIOLENCE! Bring me CHAMPIONSHIPS!
Bring me Ridolin LOL! - B'nSB
by BlueNSilverBlood on Jul 15, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Romo has sent Gurode to the pro bowl
and I would make the same argument for Davis as well
Twitter: @silva918
Next thing you know
Some stat head (not meant to be a shot at OCC) will come up with a crazy metric saying Dallas’ safety play has been top 10 in the NFL the last 5 years.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jul 15, 2011 8:38 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
A new twist on an old line, no pun intended
“You gonna believe stats or your lying eyes?”
"We'll see." --Bill Parcells
by Uncle Angus on Jul 15, 2011 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I would say these stats have great validity
Not as evidence that the line is good (Garrett and Jones don’t squander a first round pick on a tackle and a few later picks on linemen if they like their line), but that Garrett, Romo and Kitna deserve much greater recognition for what they’ve done to work around this unit. If you want to know hw much impact good coaching can have, here’s your example.
Don't believe everything you think.
by dunkman on Jul 15, 2011 9:16 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry
Yeah that's ultimately what I believe.
If you look at the individual talent on the o-line, it leaves a lot to be desired since the whole right side was a gaping black hole with Colombo and Davis there. As such, I think the logical conclusion is that there are other factors at work (e.g. Romo and Kitna’s ability to take what the defense gives, Garrett’s offensive playcalling, and Romo’s scrambling ability) that explain why the offensive line’s grades by these sites are not matching up with what we see. I mean anyone who watched the Tennessee game should realize how bad our offensive line really could be at times.
And as it relates to Tyron Smith, even PFF recognizes how bad Marc Colombo was last season.
Look me in the eye. It's okay if you're scared. So am I. But we are scared for different reasons. I'm scared of what I won't become. And you're scared of what I could become. Look at me. I won't let myself end where I started. I won't let myself finish where I began. I know what is within me, even if you can't see it yet. Look me in the eyes. I have something more important than courage. I have patience. I will become what I know I am.
Well put.
Uh oh. I may feel a fanpost coming on.
If at first you don't succeed - blame someone else.
Go for it Piney
It would be great to be able to track the number of 5 and 7 step drops over the past several years. We could all see the quick-hitting plays (LOTS of swing passes and bubble screens), but it’s hard to know just how much the offense changed. If you’d get right on that, we’d all be grateful!
Don't believe everything you think.
Romo does make the OL look considerably better than what they are
You get somebody like Manning, Brady or Rivers behind our OL who don’t nearly have the athletic ability or magic within the pocket after it collapses, our OL would look much worse and those three QBs who most consider to be better than Romo would end up on their backside more often than not.
In Romo we Trust
Good point.
MSM’s version of the NFL’s greatest passers behind our line. LMAO. Give Romo Brady’s protection. We’re Super Bowl champs 3 of the last 4 years. Tony doesn’t get tripped at the 1, we put the Vikes on their gluteus maximus, and the Giants don’t escape Dallas with a W. Last year, of course, not even the Pats line could save Wade. Oh, and my comments don’t take into account whether our defense had a rudder.
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
We all saw what happened to P Manning last season
with line issues. Threw a huge number of picks. And I think he’s the best in the game.
Don't believe everything you think.
Don't claim to know the methodology
of how these stats are compiled, but unless these graders are looking at coaches tapes, I have to question their validity. Broadcast record are notorious for the amount of trench play they miss.
Further, the attempt to assign an objective measure to a subjective event such as missed or completed blocks is the ultimate square peg/round hole application. Remember the whole ‘missed tackle’ debate that supposedly defined RB elusiveness? I’m all for objective analysis, but this smacks of Trying Too Hard.
I drink to make other people more interesting
Quantifying offensive line performance
Is tricky business to say the least, and it did not see exactly how PFF came up with their methodology. There’s a lot of judgment in these types of analyses because there isn’t much impartial information to draw on, but PFF could have built confidence in their rankings by elaborating in some detail on how they came up with their ratings. Just saying we did a really good analysis, so trust us does not advance football analysis in any serious way. It’s just another person’s opinion.
And their rankings look screwy. New Orleans and despite their age the Giants have top five lines in my opinion, but PFF thinks they are just average. That’s a red flag to me. I have a hard time swallowing Carolina and Baltimore’s lines are that good. Those are other red flags. When rankings start to stray too far from what is informed opinion, they begin to lose their credibility, and PFF falls into that category.
Although I am not enamored with Football Outsiders approach in general, their offensive line rankings appear to better pass the eye test.
Ironically, I’m one of those who doesn’t think our offensive line is nearly as bad as the majority here on BTB, although I would be blind not to see the jailbreaks they’ve created. It’s an aging line whose athleticism is rapidly decaying, but I was one of those who was not and still is not sold on Tyron Smith as our best value in the draft. But that’s a whole separate discussion.
Good stuff
I woudl say that NO and Giants HAD very good o-lines up until 2009, but their 2010 performance, at least to my eyeball test, showed they faced a similar decline (and some injury issues) to the Cowboys line. I do agree with you that FO’s approach, at least conclusions, do seem more in line with my own perceptions.
As for Tyron Smith, and not trying to start an argument here, I think the potential for an elite franchise LT is always great value in the draft…but we certainly don’t know yet if he is what many hope.
"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry
And their rankings look screwy. New Orleans and despite their age the Giants have top five lines in my opinion, but PFF thinks they are just average.
the Giants line was decimated by injuries last year.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jul 15, 2011 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Very close. It was how they punished legions for mutiny or cowardice
they would execute every tenth man by way of lottery in the disgraced unit. These days people use it to mean destroyed a large portion, although that’s techniaclly not the meaning.
Don't believe everything you think.
Sign the Cowboys up!
I think you have a great idea for a post in the making…the Cowboys could use a few executions to fix the culture of the team, though not by way of lottery.
"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry
Reminds me of Kenneth Mars in Young Frankenstein
(and I’m paraphrasing here): “A riot is a terrible thing…but it’s about time we had one!” [to the cheers of the gathered mob]
We can start with...
RW, Ball, Davis, Bennett, Jenkins…. that’s almost 10% right there.
Don't believe everything you think.
You had me until the final two, for various reasons, but mostly because I think some others deserve it more.
Seriously, I think it would be a good post, so let me know if you don’t plan on writing it and I’ll add it to my to-do-list (of course with due credit where credit is due)
"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry
OK. I'll look at it.
I do so few of those things. Bigham scares me.
Don't believe everything you think.
A few choice John McKay quotes:
“Well, we’ve determined that we can’t win at home and we can’t win on the road. What we need is a neutral site.”
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, during the inaugural season of 1976 when the Bucs endured a 0-14 record.
“Well, we didn’t block real good but we made up for it by not tackling.”
- John McKay, the first coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
“I’m in favor of it.”
- John McKay, coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1976, when asked about the execution of his team.
I love those old John McKay press clippings....
the Man was a comedic Genius…..
Here’s a theoretical play from last year: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
by I am Ironman!!! on Jul 15, 2011 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions
That's why I love this site.
There are some intelligent and thoughtful people here. Thanks, dunk, for pointing out how the usage of the term has changed from the original meaning.
If at first you don't succeed - blame someone else.
here’s what the guys (the NYG SN blog) who watch them have to say …
PFF Offensive Line Rankings Good Indicator Of Where Giants Are
It is hardly a news flash that the New York Giants offensive line was not as good in the 2010-2011 season as it had been in previous years. Aging and riddled with injuries, the patched-together line did a good job most of the time but hardly resembled the group that was thought to possibly be football’s best just a couple of years prior to that.
but whatever, stick to your claim that they were top 5.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jul 15, 2011 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
http://www.giants101.com/2010/11/09/new-york-giants-offense-line-down-but-not-out/
The New York Giants offensive line is hurting: Shaun O’Hara is still nursing a Lisfranc sprain in foot; his backup, Adam Koets, is done for the season with a torn ACL; versatile tackle David Diehl is out for a few weeks with a hamstring/hip injury.
Whoops, we’re not done. Sophomore second-round draft pick William Beatty is working his way back into football shape after a broken bone in his foot sidelined him for the first half of the season. So the Giants are down a pair of centers and a pair of tackles….can they handle it?
Shawn Andrews was one of the reserves at tackle and lasted about a game before he went down with his back.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jul 15, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Football Outsiders
have the Cowboys O-line ranked 12th in run blocking and 11th in pass blocking.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jul 15, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes
But I was mainly interested in the process to arrive at offensive line rankings, and how dissatisfied I was with PFF’s. FO’s rankings have been more in line with what is the consensus opinion of the best offensive lines than what PFF put out this year.
As for the Cowboys in particular, I think two or three spots lower than PFF is a better ranking, and not that far off from where I think it should be.
Obviously this stat has something to do with JG's offensive scheme
as well as Tony’s and Kitna’s ability to execute said scheme. I’m wondering if this metric can in some way be modified to include offensive time of possession, wins and losses and points scored by the offense. If they can be factored in, maybe a more realistic assesssment can be made. I’m no statistics person, but I wonder if OCC and/or FiTaT, who are, can comment.
these aren’t really ‘stats’
they’re subjective grades by Pro Football Focus.
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jul 15, 2011 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Dallas' line is flawed
That doesn’t mean awful, although Colombo’s physical issues made him awful. Davis is mistake prone and inconsistent. Gurode is good. Kosier is good, but vulnerable to power rushes. Free looks good. None of them except Free are explosive enough to drive opponents off the line regularly.
They are good enough to play on Sunday, but not good enough to win in the playoffs.
Don't believe everything you think.
+1
You are taking some mighty swings with that hammer hitting the nail right on the head.
"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry
I think we're in violent agreement
By no means do I believe our line is great or even particularly good. It looks flawed, as you said, and very inconsistent.
And in some ways it's worse than having a really weak link
the weak link you know who it is and can adjust all your plays to compensate – help blocking, rolling or running to the other side, etc. But when players are inconsistent, the coach and QB don’t even have the luxury of knowing who is going to screw up next. I like Gurode, but he’s also fairly mistake prone reading and picking up twists and stunts.
Don't believe everything you think.
Good point
One play it’s Davis, then Gurode goes brain dead, then Kosier gets overpowered. Hard to manage that kind of situation.
Or Garrett
for his play design and help assignments. And it results in Gonowski-type mistakes. They had to ask a rookie to guess which lineman was going to blow his blocking assignment. Gronk guessed wrong.
Don't believe everything you think.
by dunkman on Jul 15, 2011 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Raf had this theory (which I agreed with)
that a line could only really afford one weak link. More than that and other teams could exploit it more than you could cover it. I think we’ve seen that on the right side, to be sure.
Don't believe everything you think.
If the O line was good
then it must mean our backs must suck at blocking.
After all it was Gronkowski that missed the block that got Romo hurt.
Romo gets no respect nobody in my fantasy league wanted him so I got him with the 19th pick.
by TCB Orange Dino on Jul 15, 2011 11:02 AM CDT reply actions
If the line is better and Garrett can execute his offense
it really will be a steal.
Don't believe everything you think.
not really that's 2nd or 3rd.. He should go just like all qbs in the 3rd or 4th
Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player
Hilarious
So now Romo himself is one of the best run blocking lines in the league?
At what point does everyone admit that the line was average at worst? As pointed out, Kitna did pretty well behind them, too. I know, I know, it was all Jason Garrett once Romo went out. Too bad they didn’t work together before then, right? Or too bad Garrett was never our OC until Romo got hurt this past year, maybe?
by Baked Potato Soup on Jul 15, 2011 12:02 PM CDT reply actions
Or take what YOU want from it
Romo is making an average line look better. Kitna was making them look better too.
Witten and Miles got some credit there too by being able to separate from coverage when the blitz is coming and just down-right being reliable.
MOST of that comes down to the type of offense being run UNDER Garrett.
Everyone got better once Wade was canned. After having full days of practice with Garrett running the show and its obvious that whatever he did (practices, his deameanor, his hair color, SOMETHING) worked on the ‘Boys and they just played better. He was there all along, but it wasn’t his call on things (remember we need defense too).
There are probably a million reasons we can attribute to why the Cowboys just played better under Garret. You cant take what you want from that, but from what we saw last season, that pretty much looks like what happened.
Romo played well, like he usually does. The team was off to a very slow start, and I mainly blame Wade and his camp cupcake for the lack of preparation and to JJ for nightmare training camp charades. But the offense isn’t usually the problem, as a whole.
You aren’t going to convince too many people around here that the offensive line was anything better than average. With that type of talent, of course they make blitzers work regardless of QB, but Romo makes em look downright silly (unless someone forgets to block).
You're not going to get agreement on that point of view
(1) Watching them clearly shows the NFL’s most consistently inconsistent line.
(2) Memories can be convenent. Wade wasn’t fired the day Romo went down. The team foundered until Garrett took over. If there’s a correlation there, there’s a lot more evidence that it’s related to Garrett than Kitna or Romo.
(3) The team – coaches, scouts, owner – disagree with your assessment based on how they spent their draft picks. That’s not the draft of a team that likes its line.
(4) Average teams don’t get into the playoffs. Except in the NFC East.
Don't believe everything you think.
And then they beat supposedly superior teams.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jul 15, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
They picked a qb a couple years ago
Does that mean that they thought Romo needed replaced? Or that they thought Miles Austin needed replaced when they drafted Dez Bryant? Obviously Colombo is broken down and needs replaced. I don’t think a 4th round nobody and a 7th rounder that probably won’t ever get playing time shows some monumental effort to upgrade the line.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jul 15, 2011 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions
But McGee wasn't a first rounder
Not even close. He’s a down-the-road prospect ,if he hangs. The Tyronasaurus, as a “lottery pick”, will be expected to contribute now. That sounds like need, yes? Plus, Garrett talked about going after one of the other tackles if Smith had been off the board. They were going OT all the way.
And you need two excellent WRs these days. Which is why they paid an arm, a leg, and an ear for RW. When he didn’t pan out, they went after Dez.
Don't believe everything you think.
But there are 5 offensive linemen
If you need 2 wrs, then it stands to reason that at some point you replace one of 5 starting ol. So they drafted 1 guy to help the other 4 starters. Again, that hardly sounds like they think OL as a whole is a weak spot. It sounds like they knew one guy had to be replaced because he has lost it physically. After that, a 4th rounder, just like McGee. And a guy who wasn’t even a starter in college.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jul 15, 2011 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm following your logic but
in fairness, we haven’t had free agency, yet. And even though the figures we’re hearing for the new salary cap don’t sound promising in terms of how many we can sign, it doesn’t mean they are completely satisfied with what we have at OL. They might have had other plans, but we might never know.
"We'll see." --Bill Parcells
"At some point" is
a fourth rounder. Right-now-because-sh**-is-sucking-bad is your first rounder. First time for Jerry, as well. And then two more picks not long after. The are in the process of replacing the line. What one unit did they “carpet bomb” more than the o-line this draft?
So even if I bought your argument that this draft is business as usual, are you denying that RT was a problem? Do you dismiss most analyses that Bigg Davis is average to below average? That the playbook wasn’t significantly altered between 2007 and 2009? It’s pretty obvious that this line has been declining for a while – decent in 2007, and worse every season since. Makes sense – they’re not getting younger. At the start of last season they were among the oldest in the NFC.
But at this point I feel like you’d ignore almost anything to make this about Romo.
Don't believe everything you think.
The article and comments on the article made this about Romo and Garrett making the line look better. I guess because I didn’t agree with that, I’m the one making it about Romo?
Other articles and comments on the site have said that in year’s past, it was again Romo that made the OL look better. Whenever anyone suggests that Romo needs to improve in some areas, it becomes a discussion about how any perceived faults of Romo’s are actually failings of the OL. One example is when it was shown that Romo often starts games slowly, one theory was that it must be the line that starts slowly.
I have said repeatedly that Colombo clearly needed replaced. That’s one guy. I don’t think one guy struggling equals the whole unit being terrible. If they thought that, wouldn’t they have been more aggressive in previous years and this year as well? They could have traded down and gotten multiple contributors on the OL, but did not. They drafted one guy expected to start. A potential backup, and a guy that probably doesn’t make the field ever.
Not to get back into the draft thing, but they drafted one guy that will contribute this year. Seems like they think the team they have is pretty good, including 4/5 of the OL.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jul 16, 2011 2:47 AM CDT up reply actions
And compare the number and rounds with other drafts
this one is fairly remarkable under the JJ regime.
Don't believe everything you think.
Context
Stats mean nothing without context.
Consider that the vast majority of Kitna’s plays were dink and dunk plays with three step drops. The defensive line was barely out of their stance by the time the ball was in the air – every offensive line looks good in pass blocking in such a situation.
Now consider that the way PFF grade is they assign a grade to every single play. The vast majority of plays are graded with a zero, and only a few bad plays or good plays actually get a bad or good grade, which is then cumulated into one overall grade.
In principle, a tackle like Doug Free could have two outstanding run blocks per game, and be average on the rest . His score for that game single game could theoretically be +4.0. I believe this “big play bias” (for lack of a better word) is the case in the run game at a team level. There are some running plays that the O-line can still execute fairly well, where they would get a positive grade. On most of the other stuff they’d be pretty average, with a couple of ups and downs. And then there’s Marc Colombo, for which even PFF doesn’t have any excuses, but the Cowboys ran much fewer plays to his side than to the left.
Context. As Keg points out, never evaluate without context. Blanket generalizations like ‘this stat sucks’ hardly ever further the discussion, and more often than not merely show a profound and disturbing lack of understanding of basic mathematical principles.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jul 15, 2011 1:06 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
As always, pearls of wisdom from the sensei of stats and graphs
Great explanaition on how run blocking grade could seem so skewed.
"I am a true believer. Anthony Spencer will have 7 or more sacks in 2011 and Stephen Bowen can ball!" - Kegbearer
"Leadership is a matter of having people look at you and gain confidence, seeing how you react. If you're in control, they're in control." - Tom Landry
Drats! I meant to add that to my list!!!
(5) You can’t be considered a decent line if the coach has to remove 5 and 7 step drops completely from the playbook.
Don't believe everything you think.
Mark Twain said it best
THERE are lies.
THERE are DAMN LIES.
Then there are STATISTICS.
This O line could not pick up blitzes and stunts.
This O line could not punch it in from the one.
This O line could not get it done in short yardage situations.
And PFF says its not bad?
BS.
PFF doesn't use statistics in the traditional sense.
They only use numbers to reflect their opinions that they make using the eye-ball test. If you disagree with their rankings, you should understand that you are disagreeing with their eye-ball tests; not statistics.
Look me in the eye. It's okay if you're scared. So am I. But we are scared for different reasons. I'm scared of what I won't become. And you're scared of what I could become. Look at me. I won't let myself end where I started. I won't let myself finish where I began. I know what is within me, even if you can't see it yet. Look me in the eyes. I have something more important than courage. I have patience. I will become what I know I am.
Well that makes it easier
a quick eye exam and brain scan, and they’re all set…
Don't believe everything you think.
O Line vs. D Line
Do not know which is the weaker link.
Given – Garrett nabbed two players for the O Line in the Draft and the D Line has yet to be addressed.
our pass protection was decent, our run blocking sucked balls
Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!
by Archie Barberio on Jul 15, 2011 2:35 PM CDT reply actions
Actually Chia
Our “drive Blocking” is still pretty good, its when Dallas asks Leonard Davis or Colombo to pull that royally F.U.B.A.R.s them.
Here’s a theoretical play from last year: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
by I am Ironman!!! on Jul 15, 2011 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
That's my observation as well
Davis driving straight ahead reminds me of latter-day Larry Allen. About half the time he whiffs completely, the other half he connects and blows the guy up. As risky as that is, it’s probably safer than asking an immobile guy to get out front and hit someone on the move.
With Davis, it does seem that way
But neither he nor Colombo are explosive. You see the defender get into them before they get into the defender. That’s all it takes to kill a run play. Colombo was effective pulling because he was nasty and could once he got on the move.
Don't believe everything you think.
But it doesn't work as well
When Colombo is pulling by furiously propelling himself in a wheelchair, taking occasional swipes at defensive linemen with the walking cane on his lap.
What's scaring the bejesus out of me
is in Romo’s interview on NFLN last night, he was talking about when he called the leaders of the units together for the first meeting on player-led practices, he called Newman, Ware, Witten and Columbo. Columbo? As in still considered the leader of the line by Romo? I suppose he’d work good for calling all the o-lineman in, but it kind of spoke to Columbo being back at RT this season. He’ll have to, I guess, until Smith is ready. Columbo will start the season at RT unless Smith is some kind of prodigy.
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
They might roll that way
Start Colombo if he looks healthy. I am not a fan of that because I think Marc has been a flawed player even before last year, but I guess it’s not my call….
Don't believe everything you think.
Don't underestimate Colombo's standing within the team
Not only is he the leader of the O-Line, but he seems to get a lot of respect from both the young guys and the veterans as well. And don’t forget, whenever there’s a scuffle on the field, Colombo will be right there.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jul 16, 2011 3:48 AM CDT up reply actions
+75
Whether or not he is physically able to play anymore Colombo is a Warrior…
Here’s a theoretical play from last year: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
by I am Ironman!!! on Jul 17, 2011 6:47 AM CDT up reply actions
That may be why Smith didn't come to the Player workouts...
I imagine that would have created even more Headaches for Romo…..does he ask Colombo to let Smith play? or does Tyron just stand around and watch?….He personally ..I am glad I would have had to make that decision
Here’s a theoretical play from last year: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
by I am Ironman!!! on Jul 17, 2011 6:51 AM CDT up reply actions
wouldn't*
Here’s a theoretical play from last year: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
by I am Ironman!!! on Jul 17, 2011 6:51 AM CDT up reply actions
when was the last time we really punched it in when it mattered?
that to me is perhaps just as bad as our inability to handle blitzes and stunts.
We don’t really have running backs that can do that either. The interior OL could always benefit from some more umph, but the bigger isssue to me is that we don’t have a Lorenzo Neal type FB, and we don’t have a single back on this roster that can push a pile. All of these comparisons of our FBs to Moose make me crazy, because although Moose was a great receiver, his biggest value was clearing a path. Maybe I’m missing it, but I haven’t been impressed by the lead blocking of any of our FBs or TEs as FBs.
by Baked Potato Soup on Jul 16, 2011 2:52 AM CDT up reply actions

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