Rob Ryan-Overhyped?

by aubatron2011 on Aug 16, 2011 5:27 PM CDT

One of this hottest topics being debated on this site and around the NFL is how good of coach Rob Ryan actually is. Some say he's a great coach, some aren't sold yet. This is absolutely where I think the saying "A coach is only as good as his players" fits. Let's compare the talent that his twin brother Rex worked with during his time as defensive coordinator of the Ravens.

Obviously the first player you think of is Ray Lewis, who will go down as a top 10, heck maybe top five inside linebacker of all time. Then there is Ed Reed, who when he's healthy is as good a Safety as any. He also worked with such players as Terrell Suggs, Haloti Ngata and Chris McCalister. Those players would make just about any coach look good.

Now in New York, Rex has Revis, Antonio Cromartie and David Harris as his best players, again not bad talent to work with.

Rob, on the other hand, has really only had one constantly great player, Nnamdi Asomugha. Yes, he has worked with players like Michael Huff and Shaun Rogers, but he had a couple of times where he had to bench those players because they did not play up to their abilities every play. Every professional athlete has ability, but some like Peyton Manning, Ray Lewis, DeMarcus Ware, and Michael Vick have been given freakish ability. Some like Tom Brady, at the time he was drafted, and how can I forget Emmitt Smith were not so blessed. The key to being great is not just having ability it's about having the drive to be great and maximize whatever talent, freakish or not, one has been given.

DeMarcus Ware - neither Ryan brother has never had a really dominant pass rusher like Ware - showed that drive to be great last year when he with little to no help led the league in sacks. Jay Ratliff, who is playing out of position, never makes a big deal out of that fact and plays his butt off on every play.

The hiring of Rob Ryan, just like the hiring of a lot of the other coaches, was done for two reasons. The first one is obvious to fix the defense. The second reason may be more important, the fact he is not afraid to hold his players, whether it's the best player on the team or the worst player on the team, accountable. I can't gaurantee that the defense will be the vaunted Doomsday Defense we have had in the past, but I can gaurantee that if any of the players, starting with DeMarcus Ware down to Igor Olshansky, does not give all out effort on every play he is in the game, Rob Ryan will not be afraid to sit his butt on the bench despite what it might to the defense.

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Tony Romo 2011's League's Most Valuable Player

by thebigham on Aug 16, 2011 5:48 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs

I just tried to

Do that but it didn’t seem to work, it will be fixed by one the editors I’m sure.

by aubatron2011 on Aug 16, 2011 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions

Done, but this was the last freebie :-)

by One.Cool.Customer on Aug 16, 2011 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions

Ok thanks. Sorry about that. It just be my computer.

by aubatron2011 on Aug 16, 2011 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions

so what are you trying to say

by lostar2009 on Aug 16, 2011 6:03 PM CDT via mobile reply actions

u say he may be over hype but please explain..

by lostar2009 on Aug 16, 2011 6:04 PM CDT via mobile reply actions

I'm saying that

He’s never had more than one great player on his defenses.

by aubatron2011 on Aug 16, 2011 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions

aso, sapp, and charles woodson.

which one of those isn’t great?

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Aug 16, 2011 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions

I don’t believe he was with the Raiders when they had Sapp or Woodson.

by aubatron2011 on Aug 16, 2011 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions

Correction

He was there for Woodson, but only for one season, and Woodson was hurt a lot that season. And he was there for Sapp, but Sapp never really liked playing the 3-4.

by aubatron2011 on Aug 16, 2011 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions

If I remember right

He did not play his 3-4 with the Raiders it was the 4-3.

by tattooed cowboy on Aug 16, 2011 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Whether he played

a 3-4 or 4-3 that year doesn’t matter. He had talent that year in 2006 and they were ranked third in the NFL in defense. My point of this article was that a coach is not a good coach with little or no talent. Belicheck didn’t become Belicheck till Brady.

by aubatron2011 on Aug 16, 2011 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions

kudos for not dissembling about it.

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Aug 17, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions

Sapp and Woodson in the sunset of their careers

That would be like Prime, Ed too-tall Jones, Charles Haley, and a few more coming back and us saying, “But those guys are great, why didn’t we have a top 5 defense this season?”

Okay, not EXACTLY like that, but you get what I mean.

by Admiral Dallas on Aug 17, 2011 2:11 AM CDT up reply actions

Woodson in the sunset of their careers

ERRONEOUS!

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Aug 17, 2011 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions

Woodson

Left Oakland after 2005. And the year RR had him he was hurt a lot of the time.

by aubatron2011 on Aug 17, 2011 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Ryan had Woodson in 2004 and 2005 when Woodson was 28 and 29.

Woodson went to GB, was defensive POY, 1st team all-pro, and went to 3 straight pro-bowls.

What AD wrote is unsupportable.

and ‘sunset of career’ =/ ‘hurt a lot’

by Fan in Thick and Thin on Aug 17, 2011 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions

Actually, FiTaT, you are right

In a moment of a complete lack of clarity, I assumed that Charles Woodson left before ‘05 and thought we were discussing Rod Woodson (who was, as I found out checking wikipedia just now), in Oakland two years prior to but not in 2005. I guess I misremembered his tenure in Oakland as coinciding with Ryan’s.

I’ll be a bit presumptuous here, and decide that it’s a forgivable enough error, since it’s easy to forget CHARLES Woodson’s negligible final season in Oakland.

That glaring factual error aside (and thanks for pointing it out, btw), I still stand by my overall point that having either of those two names wasn’t exactly beneficial to Ryan. Sapp ~~was~~ in the sunset of his career, and Woodson’s time on the field that season was negligible at best.

by Admiral Dallas on Aug 17, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions

I have no clue how I managed to cross out was...

This just isn’t my week for clarity in my posts, apparently

by Admiral Dallas on Aug 17, 2011 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions

I'd offer one correction.

if . . . Igor Olshansky, does not give all out effort on every play he is in the game, Rob Ryan will not be afraid to ~~sit his butt on the bench despite what it might to the defense~~ show his butt the exit.

Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos

by Tom Ryle on Aug 16, 2011 7:37 PM CDT reply actions

i think he;s overhyped.

but it doesnt mean he is a bad coach. his brother is nowhere near as good a coach as the nedia portays him. but rex also isnt a wade phillips or brad childress. rob is kinda the same. people with big mouths get more media coverage, and tend to get overhyped.
do i think rob is the best DC out their? absolutley not.
do i think he is one of the better defensive coaches around. yea, their is maybe 5 or 6 guys i’d take over him. but thats it.
so being overhyped doesnt mean he isnt good. it usually means he has a big mouth

Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
Desean Jackson IS a punk
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DJ3K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
tony romo is a little bitch "oww my finger"
Dear Nnamdi Asomough, you shoulda just stayed in oakland. now you sir shall be embaresed. see you week 3, sincerely Eli Manning('s alter ego).
JPP- Breakout Season in waiting
F**k you steve "benedict arnold" smith.

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 16, 2011 8:25 PM CDT reply actions

He is a good coach

And he is overhyped because of his mouth. But I think people when talking about coaching focus on the coaches and not so much the players they have. If Rex had not been coaching the Ravens there’s absolutely no way he’s get a head coaching job.

by aubatron2011 on Aug 16, 2011 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions

agree on rex. he had great talen around him in baltimore.

and when rex came to the jets, they basically did what the eagles did this year in FA.
and the same is with mike tomlin. he inherited a SB winning team, he didnt shape the steelers into that

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 16, 2011 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Pretty sure Rex didn't have a SB winning team in 09.

The barely made the playoffs.

Residing on the BEast Coast.

Read my blog Every Four Downs

by DCyanks21 on Aug 16, 2011 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions

pretty sure i said tomlin inherited a sb winning team

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 16, 2011 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions

You said and the same with Tomlin.

You grouped them together.

Residing on the BEast Coast.

Read my blog Every Four Downs

by DCyanks21 on Aug 16, 2011 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions

grouped them together in the bigger picture of overhyped coaches.

i explained both of them differentley

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 16, 2011 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions

Tomlin is a great coach...

when Ben was suspended last year they still won 3 of those games. U think Wade could do that ?

Jerry is the end all in Dallas.

by football mensa on Aug 19, 2011 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions

who was talking about wade?

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 20, 2011 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions

would make no sense if i meant rex inherited a superbowl winning team.

seeing as u cant be a superbowl winning team if you havent won in 43 years.
i thought it was self explanitory, seeing as the steelers won the SB, the year b4 tomlin took over

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 16, 2011 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions

I think it's just Demarcus. Not need to make the M capital.

Residing on the BEast Coast.

Read my blog Every Four Downs

by DCyanks21 on Aug 16, 2011 10:23 PM CDT reply actions

Just checked the roster

and it’s DeMarcus.

by aubatron2011 on Aug 16, 2011 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions

Really?

I’m used to the lower case form.

Residing on the BEast Coast.

Read my blog Every Four Downs

by DCyanks21 on Aug 16, 2011 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions

From dallascowboys.com

Ware, DeMarcus. I don’t want to brag, just pointing it ouf.

by aubatron2011 on Aug 16, 2011 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions

He's way overhyped IMO.

Lock n Load

by DIRE WOLF on Aug 17, 2011 12:53 PM CDT reply actions

Every Coach is

Overhyped if they have talent to coach. Belicheck is good, but take away Brady and see how he does. Take Rodgers, Clay Matthews, and Woodson out of Green Bay and see how good of a coach McCarthy is.

by aubatron2011 on Aug 17, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions

Every coach has to have good players.

The greatest of all, Tom Landry needed good players.

Lock n Load

by DIRE WOLF on Aug 17, 2011 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions

That’s exactly my point.

by aubatron2011 on Aug 17, 2011 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions

belicheck is a great coach

Brady missed a whole season and he went 11-5 with a qb who hadn’t played since high school

Envy Us!!

by regaberto on Aug 17, 2011 3:06 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions

belly is far and away the best coach in this league.

he’s not overhyped, like a certain rival coach of his

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 17, 2011 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions

Belichick, in my opinion, is going to go down as one of those once-in-a-generation kind of coaches

I respected the hell out of the guy at the beginning of his NE tenure, and my respect for him rose even more when Brady went down and Cassel filled in to lead them to an 11-5 record.

It may be football sacrilege that I’m about to spew, but I’d absolutely mention him in the same breath as guys like Bill Walsh. The players, to a degree, make the coach, and that applies somewhat to Belichick, too.

But if we’re going to bring him up, I think we should admit that in this case, his ability as a coach makes him the exception rather than the rule.

by Admiral Dallas on Aug 17, 2011 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions

Not saying that Belicheck is not great

But that QB did have a lot of talent around him to help him out. But that’s why Belicheck is the best, he’s good at putting his players in position to win, whether it’s getting talent or through his schemes.

Jason Garrett=2011 NFL Coach of the Year

by aubatron2011 on Aug 17, 2011 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions

yes. but they have TALENT to coach :)

but really, dont compare the cowboys talent to clay matthews and tom brady

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 17, 2011 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions

I'll give you Tom Brady

I’m not sure if you’re aware, but there’s a guy named DeMarcus Ware on the Cowboys roster. You should definitely think about retracting that statement about comparing talent on the Cowboys to Clay Matthews. Because there’s a certain NFL-sack-king on the Cowboys’ roster whose talent outweighs Matthews.

by Admiral Dallas on Aug 17, 2011 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions

demarcus is the guy i choose to take from ur team and place on the giants.

but i prefer clay matthews. i think he has a brighter future.
but as you can see, it was sorta a joke. but still flled with truth

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 17, 2011 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions

Matthews is certainly younger, and more valuable to his team in pass-coverage (which Ware hasn't been asked to do but once or twice... ever)

But I’m still rolling with Ware. I doubt Matthews’ ability as a pass-rusher ever catches Ware’s production, and right now, Ware is still the better run-stopper.

by Admiral Dallas on Aug 17, 2011 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions

im not bashing on ware.

but clay was pretty amazing in pass rush last year. and is much more of a balanced LB, where as ware (see what i did their) is more of a DE.

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 17, 2011 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions

He also had a lot more

Help last year. Raji is a beast. Woodson is still good. Williams has pontential to be great. Hawk is solid. Ware didn’t have a lot of help last year and was still able to lead the league in sacks.

Jason Garrett=2011 NFL Coach of the Year

by aubatron2011 on Aug 17, 2011 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't think it's disputed by anyone that Ware is the golden standard for rushing the passer

All else, even Clay Matthews, pales in comparison to that.

by Admiral Dallas on Aug 17, 2011 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions

i do think ware is amazing.

but idk if he is the best pure pass rusher.
that may be osi.
not saying osi is better than ware. because he’s not.
but i think osi is a better pure pass rusher. and deffinitley the most deadliest pass rusher.

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 18, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Best pass rushing LBs in NFL history

1. LT
2. Derrick Thomas
3. Demarcus Ware
4. Andre Tippet

by Jonathan Stern on Aug 18, 2011 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions

ware not top 3 in NFL history.

ware is top 3 in the NFL currentley.
that list has a lot of snubs. many people should be over ware, in history.

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 18, 2011 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions

who should be above Ware?

I agree that LT and DT are above him currently…but who else?

Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT

Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.

by I am Ironman!!! on Aug 18, 2011 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions

are you kidding?

really.
i can understand some homerism. but to put him as a top 3 pass rusher of all time is rediculios.
to not even mention reggie white or deacon jones on that list is crazy.
and bruce smith should be up their. strahan was better than ware is now.

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 18, 2011 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions

And I admit that Reggie and Deacon were better

but Strahan?
in his first 7 years Strahan had 52.5 sacks

Ware has 80….

and already has almost twice as many FF as Strahan…25-14

Strahan was statically ~= to Spencer as far as sacks go….

Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.

by I am Ironman!!! on Aug 18, 2011 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions

strahan was a great pass rusher when he rushed the pass.

he got more often then not double teamed and the blocking half back or full back on his side. if he was a RE, than i could guarantee strahans #‘s would go up.
strahan’s one of the better all around de’s of all time, and one of the great if not the greatest LE pass rusher of all time.
you dont see many if any LE’s with the pass rushing numbers he had. oh, and please dont compare strahan to the likes of spencer.
how would you like it if i compared manningham to irvin?

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 18, 2011 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions

but that is the thing

D-ware has to fight though Double teams also…yets has still managed to collect 80 sacks since he has been in the league….

And I wan’t trying to say that Strahan sucked(I think Spencer is misplayed as a 3-4 OLB) but statically speaking as far as sacks go….

Strahan first four years: 18 sacks

Spencer first four years: 15.5 sacks….

and bear in mind Strahan had 8 more starts than Spencer…..
and in fact their Career trajectories are eerily similar too

First year: Spencer 3 sacks to Strahan’s 1 sack(though Spencer got 6 starts to Strahan’s 0)

Second year: The roles reversed Strahan becoming the starter(15 games) while Spencer toiled on the Bench (0 starts)
Production again basically reversed with Strahan getting 4.5 sacks and Spencer getting 1.5 sacks

Third year; Both are full time starters and and Get roughly the same number of sacks
Spencer with 6 and Strahan with 7.5

Fourth year: both had a “down year” compared to the previous year with both getting 5 sacks….

and both play a similar position LDE (Strahan) and LOLB (Spencer) as facing the Offense

Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.

by I am Ironman!!! on Aug 18, 2011 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions

well actually, like LT.

ware chooses where he shoots the gaps. attempting to affoid DT’s (double teams).
as for strahan. i doubt spencer has the great years that mikey S did

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 18, 2011 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions

true about Ware

to a certain extent
Ware was basically limited to playing the outside or inside gaps of the LT…..never really saw Ware move around (except to switch sides with Spencer)

and probably true about Spencer, though if he did follow in Strahan’s footsteps there, how scary would Dallas’ Pass rush be then?

Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.

by I am Ironman!!! on Aug 18, 2011 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions

yea, i dont see them changing ware to more of a coverage role now.

but if spencer followed in strahans steps, man. your guys pass rush would almost be as good as 1/2 of ours (that wasnt even ment to be a joke. its a compliment) i’d be scared straight for eli tho if specer could do half of what strahan did in his prime years

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 19, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions

but again, if i could have anyone from your team, its hands down ware.

and he is probably the 3rd or 4th LB i’d take in all of football.
i think hands down, P. Willis is the best.
followed by beason, then clay matthews, then ware.

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 19, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions

i may have gotten RE & LE mixed up, i always do that.

which is why they no longer let me play DE any more.

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 18, 2011 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions

lol, nevermind. i read it as best pass rushers of all=time.

not best LBacking pass rushers of all time.
but ware is more of a DE than a LB to be fair. so either way i wouldnt put him in top 3.
its like me saying tuck is a top 3 DE of all-time, and tucl’s career isnt done, like ware’s we have no idea how they will end up when its all said and done

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 18, 2011 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions

I disagree that Ware is more DE than LB

Ware is 6-5 250 lbs where most DE’s are 260+….

Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.

by I am Ironman!!! on Aug 18, 2011 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions

but he plays more of a DE role than a traditional OLB role.

he’s more of a stand up DE than a LB.

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 18, 2011 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions

true under wade yeah....

We shall see how Rob uses him….

Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.

by I am Ironman!!! on Aug 18, 2011 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions

why fix something that isnt broke tho?

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 18, 2011 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions

Well Ware is very good in coverage

and Rob’s scheme is predicted on deception…. Though I know what you mean….

Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.

by I am Ironman!!! on Aug 18, 2011 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions

never really seen him in coverage to often, so wouldnt know.

but i dont think they should change how he plays. not this far into his career

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 18, 2011 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions

Ware dropped back into coverage

something like 7 times last year…so you are on point with the Role thing

Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.

by I am Ironman!!! on Aug 18, 2011 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions

yea, 7 times isnt that much.

but its not really his role.
you may fair more well to move him into sorta a hybrid rle. where he is rushing every down.
sorda like a stand-up DE. but he chooses where to shoot his gaps.
but i guess that is the role he is in now.
i wonder how he’d fair against some of the TE’s around the league in coverage tho.
because you and us are facing some real good TE’s this year. the pats have a few good ones, dustin keller is pretty good, chris cooley. if his role gets changed into a more traditional OLB, its gonna be interesting to see how he does against them

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 19, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions

if you want to know that

Look to Von Miller over on the Denver Broncos…

measurables wise he is a virtual clone of Ware, and plays OLB for Denver in their 4-3 scheme…..

Am I the most optimistic Cowboys fan in the World? Yes, due to an "unfortunate accident" to the previous holder of the title.

by I am Ironman!!! on Aug 19, 2011 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions

agree. but your etire defense is built around ware.

the packers isnt built around clay matthews.
so in the end i say it evens out.

by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Aug 18, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions

Question.

I know we have different view, but people at the Jets site are saying Sanchez is better than Romo and even Eli. I know you don’t believe that right?

Random question. I keep telling them no, but they actually don’t agree at all. Well some agree others are homers.

Residing on the BEast Coast.

Read my blog Every Four Downs

by DCyanks21 on Aug 19, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions

lol.

romo is unbelievabley better than sanchez (which makes eli even more so unbelievably better, haha).
they are homers.
sanchez barely passes as an average qb in this league. i dont even know if he gets into my top 20.
the ones that dont agree are clearly blantant homers. and most likely the fans that jumped on the bandwagon when rex stepped into town. i have an understandment that the longtime jets fans are much more reasonable, humble, and actually know what they are talking about. the bandwagoners cry after rex’s team gets Defeeted (haha, i did it again).
if they keep saying nonsense like that, i may have to go over their.