Defense Wins Championships - True as Ever in 2011
The Cowboys defense was bad again in 2011. But with everyone focusing on the draft a debate has emerged whether draft picks and free agent priority should be given to the offense or the defense. A common argument in favor of ignoring the defense is that the 2011 playoff teams' defenses are bad and win based on their elite offenses.
It's clear cut, right? The Green Bay Packers and New England Patriots rank 32nd and 31st respectively in total defense. All NFL analysts say this and it's true, they give up the most yards on defense of any team in the NFL. But is this the whole story
Firstly, it's important to understand that the most important part of playoff football in the past few years has been passing the ball and stopping the pass. Patriots, Saints, Green Bay, Indianapolis, New York, Pittsburgh the teams that were in the Superbowl and won the Superbowl were there because of their abilities to do some combination of passing the ball and stopping the pass.
But that fact doesn't change anything, does it? We just stated that Green Bay and New England give up the most yards to opposing defenses so they are bad against the pass. Defense still doesn't matter.
Defense as measured by the NFL and the analysts on TV is measured in how many yards are given up. But is this how we judge a passing attack and how we judge quarterbacks? No, there's a lot more to judging quarterbacks than just how many yards they threw for. There's touchdowns, interceptions, and completion percentage all of which are rolled into the quarterback rating.
So what happens when we include that data on defenses? Like a trip through the looking glass the perspectives change. When you weight yards, completion percentage, touchdowns, and interceptions the Patriots pass defense is merely average. QBs had the 20th highest QB rating against the Patriots. Outweighing all the yards given up is the fact that the Patriots were even in TDs and interceptions allowing 26 TDs to 23 interceptions.
The Green Bay Packers, the 31st ranked defense by yards, was actually in the top-10 in opposing QB rating. The Packers had the 9th lowest QB rating given up to opposing quarterbacks. Why? Because despite allowing 29 TDs they turned the ball over a staggering 31 times.
In fact, the Green Bay Packers and New England Patriots were #1 and #2 in the league in creating interceptions.
The impact of turnovers is extreme in the NFL. It is the 1 statistic that most closely aligns with winning in the NFL. If you win the turnover battle even by 1 turnover your team is over 75% likely to win the game.
So it is not that Green Bay and New England have bad defenses buoyed by their offenses. They actually have good to great defenses. Their defenses create turnovers which lead to the offense scoring even more points. The casual analysis you hear from 40-year-old players merely wanting to spend 5 minutes on NFL.com for "research", walk onto a set, and collect a paycheck may miss these facts but winning coaches like Bellicheck and McCarthy do not.
So where do the Cowboys stack up in defensive passer rating? In that terrible 2010 Wade Phillips season the Cowboys ranked 29th in defensive passer rating. In 2011 with Ware casing twice as many sacks, Rob Ryan upgrading the scheme, and the offense performing better than the previous year the result was - 25th. Ouch, the team only increased 4 places in ranking, remaining at the bottom 1/4th of the league.
The facts are that if you want post-season success you need a defense that can defend the pass, either by limiting passing yards or by causing turnovers. The Dallas Cowboys for all the changes made in 2011 were no better than the terrible 2010 team at defending the pass. Ware can't do any better than he did this year, Rob Ryan can't come up with a better scheme than the one he had this year. So the thing that needs to change are the players on the defense responsible for stopping opposing quarterbacks.
If the Dallas Cowboys want to play on weekends like this next season they need to upgrade their players in order to lower the effectiveness of opposing quarterbacks. If we see the same results on defense next year it will not matter how well the offense plays, the Cowboys will not be in the NFC championship game.
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Hmm
If we drafted DeCastro in the 1st, who’s a playmaker in the secondary that we can draft in the second? That corner from Nebraska seems to be good but I’m not sure that he’ll last that long.
Decastro would be great
But if Ingram or Dre Kirkpatrick are still there they should be taken first. Guards can be plucked in the 2nd or 3rd round. And don’t count out Jerry making a run at Carl Nicks. We have the money to pay him and JJ has always paid big for guards. Marco Rivera, Davis, Kosier come to mind. Nicks would allow us to draft defense with the first 2 picks and pluck a center or guard on day 2.
by CowboyWay on Jan 14, 2012 1:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Guards and Centers
Just a note… and let me be clear… NO GUARD OR CENTER has been plucked past the 2nd round. The odds of getting a good Guard in the first is 26% after that it drops to 2.3% so you would have to draft 98 Guards in hopes of finding 1 diamond in the rough. You take DeCastro if he’s there… sorry you can draft DB’s and DL in the later rounds your odds are better.
DBs are 7.6% and OLB/DE are 8% thats a 3-4x better shot.
Take DeCastro in the 1st then go DBA OLB/DE/CB/S 2nd and 3rd… this is the smartest bet.
RexP
by Rex Pfister on Jan 14, 2012 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's not the least bit true
100% of centers taken in the 2nd round over the last 3 years have become starters for their teams:
Max Unger – Seattle
Andre Levitre – Buffalo
Stephan Wisnewski – Oakland
Here’s a list of starting centers and guards from the 3+ rounds I came up with from 5 minutes of wikipedia
Carl Nicks – 5th round 2008 draft
Jeremy Zuttah – 3rd round 2008 draft
Louis Vasquez – 3rd round 2009 draft
J. D. Walton – 3rd round 2010 draft
Jon Asamoah – 3rd round 2010 draft
I don’t know where you’re getting your data from.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 14, 2012 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
I thought so Blue
Alot of guards and centers seem to pan out pretty well in the 2nd 3rd rounds thanks for confirming
by CowboyWay on Jan 14, 2012 3:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
It might be that his def of a
good guard does not equal a starter……considering Costa, he started, and i know you do not consider him to be good
He who laughs last, thinks slowest
"Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name"
"Really love your peaches, want to shake your tree"
Profootball Reference
I stated I had to put limits somewhere but just because someone starts for a team doesn’t make them good. This is how I classified them… 1. 1st round… and 2 round odds are 26% you are going to get a quality center…of the 143 drafted in the first 2 rounds … 30 something made the pro-bowl at least once during their career, not just a starter. After those rounds from 3rd – 7th rounds for both is 2.3% over-all… so from 1970-2011 1028 guards and Centers were drafted of that only 20 something appeared in at least 1 pro-bowl. That doesn’t make them great but it’s at least something I can go by without spending 10 years looking up each players record. Costa started for the Cowboys does that make him good. I’m not looking for service-able I’m looking for good.
RexP
I don't think pro-bowls are a great measure of career success
Pro bowls are judged by votes. Interior linemen are largely anonymous. Furthermore, their level of play is often wildly different from the votes, for example Leonard Davis and Andre Gurode going into the pro bowl in seasons they played below average at their position based entirely off of the logo on their helmets. This also could explain your data, 1st and 2nd round picks are premium picks and therefore more exposure is given to those players.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 16, 2012 7:22 PM CST up reply actions
While I agree with your larger position....
Furthermore, their level of play is often wildly different from the votes, for example Leonard Davis and Andre Gurode going into the pro bowl in seasons they played below average at their position based entirely off of the logo on their helmets.
If you’re implying they were put in by the fan vote, that’s a totally BS myth perpetuated by hacks like Rick Gosselin. Dallas has done awful in fan voting in recent years. Even in 2009 neither Gurode or Davis would have made it without the player and coach vote.
Everything is a vote
fans, coaches, players. How many NFL players sit at home and break down interior lineman play every week?
Andre Gurode was a top-100 NFL player this offseason in the NFL series as voted by the players. He was cut by this team because they thought Costa was a better player.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 17, 2012 7:11 PM CST up reply actions
You dont draft interior lineman that high
Just go ask the Eagles how they faired taking interior lineman that high in recent history. They drafted Guard Danny Watkins at 23 last year and some think he is already a busted pick. You can always find a good interior lineman later in the draft. Fix the defense, go sign a good veteran Guard in free agency or look for one in the 3rd or 4th round, but taking a Guard with the 14th pick is just ridiculous IMO when there are more glaring needs on this team.
Danny Wakins is 27 years old and while he did struggle at the beginning of the year
his play by the end of the year was very solid, He was named to All-Rookie Teams. But taking a 27 year old in the first round is still LOL worthy and I agree with you that we can find G/C depth later in the draft. This draft is particularly deep in guards. We can take someone like Brandon Brooks in the 2nd or Kevin Zeitler in the 2nd/3rd.
Also something to consider is how expensive guards are becoming in FA.
If we DO have to take an interior lineman in the 1st, why not Peter Konz? He grades out just as high as DeCastro (maybe a lil lower) but he’s at a position of need for us. He’s gonna stabilize the C position for us for a long time
by somebodyquiet on Jan 16, 2012 4:52 PM CST up reply actions
Actually that fact has been disproven...
Your best luck and getting a good interior lineman… is in the first 2 rounds after that they have already been selected. You can get a serviceable guard or center or even Tackle but again your odds drop considerable. Would you rather draft and OLB/DE who’s odds in the first 2 rounds are 18% or a Guard who’s odds are 26% and once you get past the 3rd the OLB odds only drop only to 8% overall. The differential is staggering for Guards and Centers after the 2nd round compared to DE/OLB and DT.
Pro-football-reference.com has all the drafts from now back to 1936. I selected the 1970s because that was after the merger. Some players got drafted by both the NFL and AFL back before the merger. So I couldn’t use those stats. Since knowing where each played would play would take me months and negate being drafted 1st by the Colts and 10th by KC if he goes to KC.
RexP
Either way...
im drafting a stud pass rusher in the first over a interior lineman all day everyday. This team needs more pass rushers pretty bad. Just look at what the Giants are doing in the playoffs when u have guys that can rush the passer
im drafting a stud pass rusher in the first over a interior lineman all day everyday.
Really Boyz? So i guess seeing romo running for his life suffering a broken clavicle, punctured lung/fractured ribs & swollen hand within these last 2 yrs wasn’t enough for u? The no. 1 priority should be protecting ur qb after that yes get demarcus some DAMN help.. There’s a lot of holes to fill & i don’t think all of em will be filled this offseason i’m thinking in 2013 this team has more of a chance to make a playoff run.
"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22
"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy
by DarkKnight88 on Jan 17, 2012 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
Was the defense or the offense the bigger problem in 2010? What about 2011?
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
well 2010 romo was knocked out after 6 gms
this past season each side was very inconsistent but i’d rather have my qb healthy first & foremost.
"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22
"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy
by DarkKnight88 on Jan 17, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
Well you didn't really answer my question.
Either way, even with Jon Kitna as our QB, our offense was most definitely not the problem in 2010 compared to the defense.
And in 2011, that continued. Our offense was by most accounts better than our defense and is in clear need of less help (one defective unit compared to two or three on defense).
I don’t understand the fascination with offense on this blog. Why are we so willing to expect Rob Ryan to plan around our D’s deficiencies but not so willing to expect the same of Jason Garrett?
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
the offense not being a problem compared to the
defense in 2010 isn’t saying much now is it? It wasn’t until wade got canned when kitna started to look decent.. The offense was & still is an issue this season & i answered ur question both units were inconsistent this yr i would have to blame the offense for losing to the jets, lions pats, cards hell that’s half the losses rite there
That “one defective unit” u speak of damn near got romo killed this season.. I thought the qb was 1 of the if not the most important position on the field, no? What good is he if he’s injured? I think it would make sense to shore up that interior part of the line then devote fa & the rest of the draft on d cause yes that side does need an infusion of talent.
I expect more from Garrett simply for the fact the he’s been w/ the team since 07 the players know the system, its not new & he’s the head coach.. Garrett hasn’t shown me that he can make adjustments or scheme around the deficiencies that’s exactly why i want that oline to elite status so Jason doesn’t have to get fancy with his playcalls cause its not working.
I’m willing to give rob a few yrs, the guy just got here, if were still having this conversation later down the road then yea i’ll change my tune.
"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22
"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy
by DarkKnight88 on Jan 17, 2012 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
But if you are given the choice between a great guard and a great pass rusher in the first
why must the guard be chosen when by all accounts guards are easier to get in the later rounds compared to pass rushers?
Why can’t defense get the top pick and then take a guard in the second or third round? Seems logical enough to me.
No one is arguing to completely ignore the offensive line. When the defense couldn’t stop any team with a decent QB, it’s probably prudent to focus on improving there first.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
I choose a g or c simply for the fact
that romo has been injured severely for the past 3 of 4 seasons because of inept oline play that’s why i take care of that weakness 1st that is unless u feel confident handing the reigns to mcgee.. It probably won’t matter how good this defense is if ur starting qb is out & u saw that with houston this past weekend, their starter was out so that great defensive play was pretty much wasted… Guards are easier to find in the later rounds than pass rushers, really says who?
"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22
"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy
by DarkKnight88 on Jan 17, 2012 4:40 PM CST up reply actions
If you don't believe me about great pass rushers versus great guards, take a poll.
There is no doubt that great guards are easier to come by than great pass rushers. Great pass rushers have a much more unique skill set than great guards.
If you still don’t believe me, look at the pick distribution for guards versus defensive ends in the top-15 picks of the draft. You don’t think that difference is simple coincidence do you? Teams value pass-rushers much more in the draft than guards because great pass-rushers are much rarer than great guards.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Yes.
Was the defense or the offense the bigger problem in 2010? What about 2011?
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 17, 2012 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
young OL, very little time to work together
plus injury problems contributed. Add a piece in FA or the draft and see what happens. The DL, CB play was a disaster this year and a priority to fix.
Even with Nicks
I would still take DeCastro at 14… it’s a no-brainer. I would be willing to draft defense first if there wasn’t a stud all-pro graded Guard waiting there for us to pick him and no DE/OLB/DB that grades even close. DeCastro is a top 2 pick but because he’s a guard he won’t get that much attention … Konz at Center is a top 5 talent… but again will drop to the 2nd round. If you can get him… then you take him too. It’s just the best way solidify one area of your team without blowing out the bank. Draft Defense with the rest of the draft… then if you suck on defense it won’t matter as much because your offense scores 35 pts a game.
RexP
I tend to agree with your views
However here I differ a bit I believe we need to upgrade both lines however I would not spend both 1-2 picks on the Oline our Dline is just as bad possibly worse then our Oline is. I think we seriously need to invest in a solid NT and then they can move Rat out to De and that would shore up that problem fairly well. I don’t mind taking DeCastro in the first not my choice, but I can’t hate it either, we do need to take a Dlineman in the second though.
Optimissum Prime sees nothing but the best for America's Team!!!
by Cowboys_Attack on Jan 15, 2012 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Defense still wins games!
Couldnt be more clear after seeing what the Giants and Niners did over the weekend. Drafting a Guard in the first round doesnt help our biggest needs this offseason which is rebuilding the defense. If we dont fix the defense it doesnt matter how good our OL is because we wont win games like you saw over the weekend.
DeCastro... Konz... Osemele.. (I think) and Jones
2 of those 4 guys I would take in this draft… without a 2nd thought. They are all very highly rated OL players.
DeCastro and Konz I would simply take first opportunity even if I had to move up… Osemele and Jones depending on grade and draft position I would take them if I had no shot at DeCastro or Konz. … I would wait 2nd or 3rd round depending and draft Dre Kirkpatrick or Ingram if there in the 1st
RexP
Rex i completely agree
instead of having just a good/avg oline why not turn that unit into an elite one by upgrading the interior
"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22
"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy
by DarkKnight88 on Jan 14, 2012 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
Throw up FiTaT signal
The impact of turnovers is extreme in the NFL. It is the 1 statistic that most closely aligns with winning in the NFL..
"Obviously, I felt like if I ran into my lineman there it was going to help the play" ~Tony Romo
2 other defenses who were top-10 in interceptions
49ers and Giants.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 14, 2012 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
I know but I agree with FiTaT
that Turnovers are random
"Obviously, I felt like if I ran into my lineman there it was going to help the play" ~Tony Romo
Some teams have a knack for baiting QB's into picks.
Forcing bad throws and stripping the ball. Some are random, but not all.
You know who the two teams were that led the league in interceptions were last year?
Green Bay (24) and New England (25).
A random stat that has the same two teams at #1 and #2 in the league in two separate years? If that’s just luck then Jerry needs to offer Bellicheck a Roy Williams contract for his lucky rabbit foot!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 14, 2012 8:12 PM CST up reply actions
BUT, they also have great offenses that build big leads, forcing teams into obvious passing to catch up.
You’d have to analyze how many of those interceptions came in the 2nd half with big leads…………
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, the real question is, is it a good beer? Realist Larry, 2011
by Realist Larry on Jan 14, 2012 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
Would the offense put up as many points is they weren't given the ball two extra times a game?
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 15, 2012 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
they are averaging 9.3 yards per pass
that dwarfs even NE and NO. On top of that, GB has the second lowest INT rate. The 2001 Rams are the 2nd most effective passing offense I can find in terms of YPA, and the Packers are over .4 yards per play better than them.
That team would be almost as good if you paired it with our D, their offense is THAT GOOD.
Oh yeah...
There’s more room between the Dallas offense and the elite offenses than the Dallas defense and the elite defenses. The offenses are just soooo much better than the defenses are, and there are several offenses that are that good.
well, that's where the analysis would have to be done
quarter by quarter, whe are those ints. made?
If a lot are made in the 2nd half, 4th qtr. w/big leads, then the answer to your question is “No.”
If a lot are coming early in the game, then Yes.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, the real question is, is it a good beer? Realist Larry, 2011
by Realist Larry on Jan 15, 2012 3:19 PM CST up reply actions
+1
I was thinking that too, and tried to find a site that had INTs by quarter but with no success
half
i did not check all the quarters for the packers
But i checked all the gamebooks and the packers had 13 int’s in the first half all year
and 18 in the second half
by firejasongarrett on Jan 15, 2012 9:11 PM CST up reply actions
that's a key point and what I was talking about. Thanks.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, the real question is, is it a good beer? Realist Larry, 2011
by Realist Larry on Jan 16, 2012 6:04 PM CST up reply actions
As many points?
Ehhh…probably not. Belichick likes to run up the score, so their scoring numbers are a little inflated. Would they still have big leads and force teams to throw a lot and try to force throws? Oh yeah. Tom Brady put up five TDs on the Broncos in the first half…think about that. He has Aaron Hernandez, Rob Gronkowski, and Wes Welker and he’s basically a surgeon with the ball. Dude’s an otherworldly talent.
Here is how I would explain those
2010 GB D: 2nd in interceptions, 5th in YPA, 2nd in sacks, 4th in completion percentage. Everything about their D that year screams elite.
2011 GB: tied for 6th worst in YPA, 27th in sacks, 14th in completion percentage, 1st in interceptions. They are opportunistic, but if that O didn’t put up so many points, their D would have been the big story this year.
Teams passed more against the Packers than any other team this year, which inflates volume statistics as well (thought their INT numbers are still great). But this drops the Packers down to dead last in sack rate, and puts them much closer to the rest of the pack in INT rate.
by foyesboys on Jan 15, 2012 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's why their defense is underrated
Again, not saying they’re the 85 Bears or anything. But they’re good. Their defensive passer rating is among the best in the league because of the takeaways.
Again, my point is that in the post-season your defense really matters. If your offense is carrying a bad defense (cough Cowboys) you won’t find success.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 15, 2012 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
No they aren't good.
Nor are they underrated. If anything they’re overrated because they have big names on the defense like Raji, Matthews, and Woodson. Did you even watch last night? Or catch any game where a QB carved them up all year? They’re probably not worst the worst in the league, like the yardage suggests but they’re pretty damn bad. You think the Cowboys have a bad defense? Hah!!!! Aside from turnovers the Packers defense doesn’t do anything as well as the Cowboys defense does. The Cowboys are better against the run, and the pass.
this year they were worse than us
and I think overall, they have similar problems. Constant secondary injuries (like us with Lee and Jenkins) have hurt them. They are aging at the #1 cb spot. Ratliff and Raji both didn’t produce much this year.
Losing Jenkins and injuries to Matthews made their pass rush inept.
Yeah, I'm not saying there's no reason to improve the Cowboys or anything
Keep in mind that I’m not saying “Have a decent to good draft, put a bow on the team and make hotel reservations in NYC for February!!!” (though on a serious note, there’s no better city, Miami notwithstanding, to experience the Super Bowl and you may as well make reservations now, it’ll be a blast). However, I am saying that all the teams that get lauded here all have their fair share of problems too. For all the fans that whine about the Cowboys so much “I wish we were more like (insert name of team that usually makes the playoffs here)” and then continues to list all the deficiencies the team has and all the players they have that aren’t pro-bowlers and says they need to go…that’s not based in reality. Every team has flaws and plenty of JAG types on their rosters. The key is covering up those flaws, e.g. covering up a medicore pass rush with an elite secondary, covering up a weak link in the OL by surrounding him with great players and scheming guys to chip off blitzers, etc. And surrounding your average talent with elite players.
1. this is my favorite post in a while bc of the comments. 3 of my favorite commentors having an intelligent discussion. everyone agrees on the right strategy, the question is the best way to achieve it.
2. foyes makes a very cogent point. you’d really need to look at interception rate, specifically score adjusted interception rate. here’s one example of how it could be tackled.
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/the-true-measure-of-a-pass-heavy-offense/
good stuff all around.
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jan 15, 2012 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
Someone put up the OCC signal!
Time for someone to do some big stats work!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 15, 2012 5:25 PM CST up reply actions
wrong
The impact of turnovers is extreme in the NFL. It is the 1 statistic that most closely aligns with winning in the NFL..
This is just not true
1. Drive success rate
2. ANPA/A
3. turnovers
http://www.stampedeblue.com/pages/stampede-blues-the-winning-stats
by firejasongarrett on Jan 15, 2012 8:22 PM CST up reply actions
I agree.
I call it situations though.
In certain situations you need to hold teams to field goals or create turnovers to wing games. Yards mean nothing if no points are up on the board.
That's the philosophy in Green Bay it seems
We’ll give up the most yards of any team in the NFL if we can average 2 interceptions a game and hand that ball over to Aaron Rodgers.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 14, 2012 5:08 PM CST up reply actions
why would that be a good strategy?
shouldn’t their best strategy considering they are paired with the most efficient passing offense in nfl history be to get them the ball back regardless of how they do it?
2 turnovers doesn’t change the fact that they’re so bad they’re keeping their historically good offense off the field on every drive that doesn’t end in a turnover.
I'm all
for the Carl Nicks signing but after that we have to get corners that can cover. You can’t play the 3-4 with success unless you can match the pass rush with the coverage. Look at what Rex Ryan did with the Jets.Their pass rush sucks but their corners are top notch. The words “coverage sack” does not exist in the lexicon of the Dallas Cowboys.
The 3-4 is such a disaster in Dallas. The 3-4 places such a permium...
on cb’s and olb’s and Dallas has little to none of either. Ware being the only legit player from the two groups. Why they continue to bang their head against the wall I have no idea. Return the 4-3. Draft Brockers. Sign Osi. Then draft some more d linemen. It would eliminate trying to project college de’s in to olb’s.
Anyone notice the safety play of the Gmen ? Me too. Check this out, they actually drafted a safety. How cool is that ? Actually buliding other position groups. What a novel concept.
Anyone notice the mental toughness on San Fran and New York ? Dallas couldn’t buy that in a bottle.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 16, 2012 7:18 AM CST up reply actions
Wade Phillips concept
on the 3-4 versus the 4-3 was kind of interesting. First of all those 4-3 DEs you are going to need are very expensive. It is actually cheaper to get the “tweeners” you need to play OLB than it is to get the Julius Peppers of the world. Same for the DTs in the 4-3 versus the DEs in the 3-4. Secondly, Parcells and Phillips both put a premium on “cover corners”/press coverage as opposed to the Dick Lebeau zone blitz schemes. If you want to play press coverage, you better have corners AND safetys that can cover. Rob’s Ryan’s brother Rex had the right idea.
Cheaper has gotten Dallas where ?
Would you want the cheaper olb’s or a front four who can sak the qb without blitzing ?
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 17, 2012 6:43 AM CST up reply actions
what scheme doesn't place a premium on CBs?
A pressure player is a pressure player, either way you need more of them
by somebodyquiet on Jan 16, 2012 4:54 PM CST up reply actions
The Giants have average cb's. However they can rush the passer with 4 (four)
linemen. No blitzing. No schemeing. No switching sides and moving all over the place. They just line up and bring it. The 3-4 doesn’t work like that. So there ya go. I will take the Giants 4-3 all day with average cb’s over the banghead Dalla 3-4 which needs outstanding cb’s so they can blitz.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 17, 2012 6:41 AM CST up reply actions
That's because you're a Giants fan.
Dallas going 8-8 has nothing to do with whether or not they run a 4-3 or a 3-4. It all comes down to a strong offensive line. That keeps the offense on the field longer and the defense off, therefore the defense can stay fresh and have more energy and endurance for late in the game. It’s really a simple concept.
by TheCowboyFan on Jan 17, 2012 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
Really ?
That’s because you’re a Giants fan.
Dallas going 8-8 has nothing to do with whether or not they run a 4-3 or a 3-4.
You missed the point altogether. Which for you is the norm.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 17, 2012 5:03 PM CST up reply actions
San Francisco
I don’t have the calculation for their defensive passer rating but it has to be very high. They give up few yards, few passing touchdowns, and turn the ball over.
Defense is important in the NFL.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 14, 2012 8:21 PM CST reply actions
I think having Aldon Smith and disruptive five techs WITH players in the secondary is vital in the NFL
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 14, 2012 8:28 PM CST up reply actions
Yet it was 35-32
Even the best defense in the playoffs had to win with offense.
"Obviously, I felt like if I ran into my lineman there it was going to help the play" ~Tony Romo
49ers offense is not that great
Their defense gave them the ball 5 times and the offense didn’t do much with it. The 49ers defense has carried that team to the NFC championship game.
And it’s not just this year, either. In 2009 and 2010 the Jets had an offense that was completely unnoteworthy helmed by bad Mark Sanchez and they made it to the conference championship too.
It’s not to say that offense is better than defense or vice versa, the point is that you can’t ignore a defense. You need a good defense to win in the post-season.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 15, 2012 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
good not great.
We are medicore and won’t take much to make it good.
"Obviously, I felt like if I ran into my lineman there it was going to help the play" ~Tony Romo
3 good disruptive d linemen....
another ilb. two safties and two cb’s not to mention another olb. That’s it….lol
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 17, 2012 6:45 AM CST up reply actions
Bruce Carter better pan out lol
"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22
"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy
by DarkKnight88 on Jan 17, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
no team with a defensive rating under 22 has ever won a Super Bowl
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 14, 2012 8:27 PM CST reply actions
Amen to this.
The defense is what needs fixing. I seriously still can’t believe that’s up for debate. And the silly thing is that fixing it is doable. The texans did it just last year. How? They went after defense in free agency and the draft (which is even more amazing considering how they changed schemes).
There is no excuse for Dallas not to follow their lead. DeCastro is great and all, but our defense is in severe need lf help and I actually would argue that people are delusional if they think one interior lineman is going to make us into the Saints or the Packers.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Creasy729 on Jan 14, 2012 9:06 PM CST via mobile reply actions
*Texans and *of
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
to a point I agree Creasy
to play Devils advocate for a moment though, The Texans already had their Offense “done”…so to speak…So Houston Could Afford to go All in on the Defense(and to be Clear Houston’s D was Worse than ours last year in many categories)
Dallas on the other hand, is still trying to get the right combination of O-line and such. While I feel that Dallas should let the Yuglies fight it out this coming Offseason, and then bring in Depth guys if necessary, If there is a Highly ranked T/G available @ #14, then you have to take him, as that is one less position that you should have to fill….
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 15, 2012 12:46 AM CST up reply actions
I mean if DeCastro is absolutely the best player on the board and no one compares
then I guess I could live with the pick. I just am not so sure that will be the case. Great pass rushers can slip into the early teens and I would love to get someone to ensure that D-Ware doesn’t have to do it all himself.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
There is a potential for a miracle one year fix
the barrier for us will be pass rushers I believe – Unless we get Campbell, I’m not sure how we go about improving our pass rush. Don’t know much about these college rushers, but it sounds like we’re unlikely to improve at OLB.
The secondary though could be massively improved in just one offseason – either grab a cb in FA and/or high in the draft and there you go.
I think there are a couple ways to improve the defense.
First off, like you said, you have to look to FA first for some help. I think a CB like Finnegan is probably the best way to go although I would love to take a look at Michael Griffin at S as well. Regardless, you have to use FA to shore up that secondary so you don’t have to use a first round pick on it.
After that, the first thing to do would be to pray that Calais Campbell hits FA. Barring that though, you can do a couple different things. You could go after Cliff Avril to replace Anthony Spencer (which I actually think he would be down for). You could go after Andre Carter, hoping that he can recover from his leg injury. You could go after a big nosetackle like Aubrayo Franklin to move Ratliff over. Either way, there are a couple things you can do.
And then of course there is the draft. Address the defense in the first three rounds and you are off to a great start on turning over maybe four starters from last year’s defense with the combine FA focus (Newman, Spencer, Coleman/Spears, Brooking/James, Elam).
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Carter was dropped cause he couldn't produce in a 3-4
F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...
It seems you are right. I thought he weighed significantly more than 255 lbs.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
I like your suggestions
btw, I watched a little of Devon Stills on youtube today during the games. I only watched the Illinois game (and honestly probably only watched half the plays intently), and wasn’t overly impressed – he gets a push, but doesn’t have much of an upfield burst. I know its only one game, and I’ll watch a few more and definitely his highlight clips, but he didn’t really stand out.
That's pretty much how I feel about him.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Everyone ....
Did you all even watch the games… are you trying to tell me that you would rather have T-OLD and BALL playing CB next year… u r kidding right. Think all this about the pass rush. 1. Our pass rush isn’t that bad… screaming for help so to speak… but our secondary is. Say we cover the guys like we’re supposed to say like the Gnats did against GB or close… then that 1 sec that allowed Manning to get away from Spencer no longer exist and he’s sacked. Imagine having a team with a good safety and two good corners. The DL is not a major problem yet… this is a long term growth process you hit the areas of immediate need immediately. You don’t throw caution to the wind and hope they will get better. DeCastro… is choice 1, and after that it’s CB’s and Safety… maybe if the good lord willin and a train don’t run we can choose an OLB/DE in the 3rd to 5th and even with a little luck get a back up for Romo in the later rounds.
RexP
Back up for Romo probably isn't in this class...like your thinking though...
Newman was absolutely atrocious, you’re right…however, to improve on someone that bad won’t take Darrelle Revis. Corners like Steven Gilmore (who knows where he’ll go, gonna have to wait on Kiper/Mayock’s word for that), Jamell Fleming, and Shaun Prater will probably be improvements, not to mention stop gap types in free agency. To improve the pass rush will require acquiring actual good players. I’m talking Melvin Ingram, maybe Bruce Irvin, Calasis Campbell, etc.
Everyone ....
Did you all even watch the games… are you trying to tell me that you would rather have T-OLD and BALL playing CB next year… u r kidding right. Think all this about the pass rush. 1. Our pass rush isn’t that bad… screaming for help so to speak… but our secondary is. Say we cover the guys like we’re supposed to say like the Gnats did against GB or close… then that 1 sec that allowed Manning to get away from Spencer no longer exist and he’s sacked. Imagine having a team with a good safety and two good corners. The DL is not a major problem yet… this is a long term growth process you hit the areas of immediate need immediately. You don’t throw caution to the wind and hope they will get better. DeCastro… is choice 1, and after that it’s CB’s and Safety… maybe if the good lord willin and a train don’t run we can choose an OLB/DE in the 3rd to 5th and even with a little luck get a back up for Romo in the later rounds.
RexP
Everyone ....
Did you all even watch the games… are you trying to tell me that you would rather have T-OLD and BALL playing CB next year… u r kidding right. Think all this about the pass rush. 1. Our pass rush isn’t that bad… screaming for help so to speak… but our secondary is. Say we cover the guys like we’re supposed to say like the Gnats did against GB or close… then that 1 sec that allowed Manning to get away from Spencer no longer exist and he’s sacked. Imagine having a team with a good safety and two good corners. The DL is not a major problem yet… this is a long term growth process you hit the areas of immediate need immediately. You don’t throw caution to the wind and hope they will get better. DeCastro… is choice 1, and after that it’s CB’s and Safety… maybe if the good lord willin and a train don’t run we can choose an OLB/DE in the 3rd to 5th and even with a little luck get a back up for Romo in the later rounds.
RexP
Rex i see ur a fan of DeCastro
nice & yes if he’s there he needs to be the pick & i know many BtB’s wont be a fan of this pick since the position is not quite a weakness & there’s still so many other holes but if coby fleener is there in the 2nd that pick might be enticing.. I’m assuming mo & dre will be gone by the time dallas is on the clock, i’ve heard this is a weak safety class so who do u take in the 2nd, 3rd rds? What if janoris is still there in the 2nd do u take him? So many options.
"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22
"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy
by DarkKnight88 on Jan 16, 2012 7:08 PM CST up reply actions
Basically the Cowboys shouldn't care what BtBers think
I’m pretty sure that DeCastro would get smashing reviews and not make the Cowboys regret picking him in the slightest. He’ll also make BtBers feel like idiots and after watching his game tape he might even beat up a few of us. Even those who liked him.
One year fix?
For what? One year fix to make them an elite team or one year to get them in the playoffs? Look the Giants got WORSE than they were last year (as a whole) and they made the playoffs. I think they can easily make the changes to win the NFC East next season, you’re crazy if you don’t think it’s possible, they were one win away this year and 8-8…adding two wins is impossible? If they’re in the playoffs they automatically have a chance to go all the way. However, if you’re talking about assembling a team that’s arguably the best in the NFL, yeah I think it’ll take two years.
But it’s a process. To assemble a team that’s arguably the best team in the NFL first they have to assemble a playoff team. The NFL is a system driven league, teams implement system that works for them and see what changes they need to make to make the team elite. First you have to get a working system in there. I think they’re on the right track. By all objective means they improved under Rob and Garrett at the helm of the offense and defenses. I think they need to first get a good offensive line in place and a running game. See how the offense works with four great targets, an improved OL, and a feature running back. Give Rob a few actual NFL quality CBs and maybe some help in the pass rush. Further identify the weaknesses that separate you from being elite and fix the ones you can fix.
Part of it Creasy is signing the right guys in free agency. We sign guys like
Sensi and Elam. For whatever reason Jerry just can’t get the right guy’s. He has been very very cheap since the stadium was built. I don’t really trust his drafting accumen either.
4-3. We need to return to the 4-3. Dallas just isn’t able to draft 3-4 players.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 16, 2012 7:34 AM CST up reply actions
Well you definitely have to hit on all decisions to turn this team around.
I however, believe it is doable.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
The question is
if GB and NE’s offenses weren’t machines, would they have nearly as many INTs? Teams don’t throw the ball nearly as much when they are winning, and teams were very rarely winning against the Pats or Packers.
The Pats had the 4th worst defensive YPA and Packers had the 6th worst YPA. That screams bad defense to me.
That's the point, they're willing to give up yards to get turnovers.
It’s like judging a QB who gets lots of yards but throws 4 interceptions. Do you ignore the interceptions? Of course not! We say it about our very own Tony Romo.
When judging a passing defense you have to judge it the same way you judge a passing offense.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 15, 2012 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
Okay well then let's ask this question:
Does anyone think that if we marginally improve our offense to put it closer to those elite teams, that our defense will metamorphose into the turnover machines that NE and GB are?
Or, perhaps, as a better question, can this offense really be improved enough to be put on par with Green Bay or NE?
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Yes.
"Obviously, I felt like if I ran into my lineman there it was going to help the play" ~Tony Romo
Yes, lots of people do, and that's why I wrote this article
Many people believe that the Patriots and Packers have the two worst defenses in the league and their success only has to do with their offense. That is a common belief.
The truth is different, the truth is that the Patriots and Packers have good defenses that help them win games and that if a team has a bad defense they will not find post-season success.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 15, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
Personally I would say no to both.
Turnovers may largely be random, but I would never completely discount the ability of players to create turnovers. Turnovers can’t be completely random when you can see the difference in abilities between Asante Samuel and Terrance Newman to create turnovers.
As an aside, the case of Samuel versus Newman is an interesting one. On average, since 2003, Samuel only averages about an interception and a half more than Newman. However, the average fails to take into account the variance of those numbers. Four times Samuel has had more than 6 INTs. Newman has had 5 INTs just once. So, you can see that there is a strong element of randomness in turnovers, but nonetheless it appears that some players are just better at producing them.
Regardless, the point is that I believe that players do matter somewhat when it comes to turnovers. Saying that, I am not sure this defense can just easily change into the turnover producing machines that GB and NE are. I think they could definitely get near them with increased chances, but I would still say that I would focus on improving our talent so that we are better all the time and better when it comes to turnovers as well.
As far as the second question, I actually have an interesting theory on this one. I am not sure a Jason Garrett offense is ever going to get on par with GB and NO. I personally feel our system is not good enough to be that elite. I don’t think it is as much the offensive line as people want to believe (eg. look at the injuries on GB’s line over the past few years). I don’t really think it is Tony either. I just think it is the system. GB and NO spread you out, still mix in the run, but are much better at giving their QBs a bunch of hot routes to beat back blitzers. That is why Brees and Rodgers are generally so untouchable. Not because their O-lines are so great, but because by the time you get to them, the ball is already gone. This is also known as Peyton Manning syndrome, where an O-line looks great stat-wise with a great QB behind them and then terrible with Curtis Painter behind them.
Unless Garrett is willing to commit to a more spread offense that utilizes our players better (e.g. Felix as Sproles), I just don’t see our offense every becoming as unstoppable as NO or GB. The eye test says there is just something better about those offenses, and I don’t think it’s definitely the offensive line. I don’t think it is Tony either. I think it is the system. I like Garrett and think he is a fine coach for the Cowboys, but I have come to think that we may only ever be good or great with him. I just can’t see us ever being as dominating as GB or NO.
Also, here is one more interesting thought: The last time the Cowboys were in the top five in scoring was in 2007. What also was going on that year? The Cowboys had a top five defense in opposing QB rating and were top six in yards per attempt. Maybe by helping this defense, we will be giving our offense the ability to be elite.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Maybe, after rereading that, there is more to the idea of Tony being at least part of the problem.
Either he holds the ball a little too long, or our system doesn’t put him in great position to get rid of it.
I still lean towards it being the system, but it’s worth discussing.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
If our offense is scoring at the rate those two are
then we will surely have more turnovers than we do now. Likely less than those two Ds, but then again our defense in every game aside from the Eagles and Giants games was solid – if we’re scoring at the rate GB or NE does, and we don’t have dumb turnovers, we’re 8-0 at midseason this year.
Or at least I agree that we would not turn into GB and NE but get closer to them in turns of turnovers.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Where were they?
When we were up 4 scores on the Lions they didn’t turn the ball over the rest of the game
We had a 2 score lead on the Giants with 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter and didn’t get any turnovers, the Giants got TDs.
Didn’t we blow a 2-score lead against the Jets in the 4th quarter too?
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 15, 2012 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
All valid points.
However, you have to take into account that if we really produced like GB or NE, we would likely be up big by the second or third quarter in most games. Also, it was just one season ago that this team produced a ton of INTs in the second half of the year by playing zone coverage and getting off to good starts in games. So, I think we would definitely improve. Then again, it would probably be hard not to.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
*most games rather than a handful
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
We blew 5 fourth quarter leads.
Translation…..this team has a long ways to go.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 16, 2012 7:37 AM CST up reply actions
and none of it had to do with it being a 4-3 as opposed to a 3-4.
Two pick sixes, a timeout, a dropped pass, and a blocked punt. There’s your five losses.
by TheCowboyFan on Jan 17, 2012 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
Romo needs to quit playing for the Lions. He plays for us , I think...
The other 3 losses we got our snot popped.
Sounds like you are qualifying the losses not being that bad. LOL
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 17, 2012 5:09 PM CST up reply actions
My personal vote for our first pick is Still
I’d love to see this guy come over and work De for us if we cant move Rat over. There arent a whole lot of NT prospect this year and I have no idea who will be available through FA. So I’d go with this guy he’s RKG and everything plus we seem to like Penn lately anyways Mr. Lee, possibly the second best player on D.
Optimissum Prime sees nothing but the best for America's Team!!!
by Cowboys_Attack on Jan 15, 2012 12:52 PM CST reply actions
JJW: 12 tackles, 2.5 sacks, 3 TFL, 3 QB hits
For God and country - Geronimo
by Fan in Thick and Thin on Jan 15, 2012 3:34 PM CST reply actions
I think this weekend makes a case for defense
Saints lose to a defensive 49ers squard, Packers looking like they’re headed toward an early exit bc its D can’t stop the Giants and the Texans/Ravens was a defensive struggle. Pats are only team with a terrible defense still in the hunt.
"How 'Bout them Cowboys!"---Jimmy Johnson
"...and the Cowboys...STUN the Bills!"--ESPN MNF
Niners hardly won with defense.. 32 points..?
"Obviously, I felt like if I ran into my lineman there it was going to help the play" ~Tony Romo
and still needed a miracle
"Obviously, I felt like if I ran into my lineman there it was going to help the play" ~Tony Romo
Well if that's what you think, then consider the implications of the lack of defense for the Saints.
They allowed Alex Smith to burn them consistently and couldn’t make any plays when they needed to (Roman Harper and Malcom Jenkins are both respectably awful). Do you still think they were happy after the game with their team structure of elite offense and terrible defense?
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
*respectfully not respectably haha
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Hindsight is 20/20
Yet everyone in the world picked the Saints. Great Offense > Great Defense. And relating to our team, itll be easier and quicker to make this offense elite than to make our defense great.
I’d say do the opposite of what normally happens with this team. So lets spend big money in FA for the defense and lets draft #14 for offense.
"Obviously, I felt like if I ran into my lineman there it was going to help the play" ~Tony Romo
When both the Packers and Saints are sitting at home, how can you absolutely say that offense > defense?
Just look at last year with GB and Pittsburgh. Aaron Rodgers was great and all, but it is often lost in the discussion that GB had a stellar defense last year. As did Pittsburgh. To win games consistently, you have to be able to throw the ball and stop the other team from doing the same. We can do one consistently, but not the other. It would be prudent to make sure we can do both.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
New England may be the only exception.
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
these superior offensive teams that are one-sided
actually don’t have a history of success in the playoffs. Those great Colts teams, the 98 Vikings, 2001 Rams, Chiefs teams in 2003-2004, Pats recently – these teams generally are not that successful in the playoffs.
The Saints are the only team in the last 10 years who I would call significantly one sided. And they are just so so good playing indoors.
Now, this is completely a hindsight is 20/20 type post on my part – Earlier this week I was wondering if this was the year the NFL leaves balance in the dust and the playoffs become all offense.
And the Saints that year were generating turnovers at an insane rate.
Their offense was great, but their defense was pretty dangerous as well.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
they are just too fast on turf
They were swarming all over the place in that superbowl against Indianapolis.
their D even this year is much better at home. They did a decent job against every team they faced aside from the Texans. By my math, they let up 143 at home, 196 on the road.
The Saints at home are 4-0 in the postseason
The Saints on the road are 0-3.
And its no coincidence – that team is built to play in a dome. Both sides of the ball.
The Saints feature two first rounders and two second rounders in their secondary.
Even though their defense is bad as a unit, that higher talent level does mean they have more playmaking potential when they need it than a team like Dallas.
Maybe, but I wouldn't wish Roman Harper upon our secondary haha.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Disagree...
The 2001 went to the Super Bowl and lost on a field goal right? The year before they went 10-6 and the year before that they won a rock, right? I’d say they did okay. The Colts won a Super Bowl, made it another time, and always managed to do okay in the playoffs despite not winning the Super Bowl. Look, any team that wins the Super Bowl runs into luck…some times the chips don’t fall your way in the playoffs doesn’t mean that you’ve somehow assembled a defective team.
Rec'd
I’ve been assured it’s a “process.”
I can’t do anything but sit back and watch.
I mostly agree.
I wouldn’t call the Patriots’ and Packers’ defenses “good” though (certainly not in sight of “great”); more like what passes for marginally competent in the parity era. There’s still a big difference between defenses like those that are just good enough to complement an elite offense and ones like the Ravens, 49ers,and Texans have that can carry a team. The sad thing is the Cowboys have a lot of work to do just to upgrade their secondary to the level of those marginally competent pass defenses.
That Packers pass defense is down right terrible.
Brees torched them for 419 yards three TDs and no picks, Cam Newton managed to hang 432 yards on them, Stafford put up 520 yards on them and five TDs, and Eli put up 350 and three TDs at the meadowlands and put his fist in them last night. Terrible terrible pass defense. The yardage does matter, they had the 23rd ranked pass defense according to DVOA last year. Not worst in the league, but still pretty bad. The Pats defense is ranked 28th. When you play Mark Sanchez, Ryan Fitzpatrick and whoever the Dolphins have playing QB you rack up a lot of picks and turn overs. I wouldn’t describe either defense as good to great, more like “terrible” to “god awful.” Defenses that I would much rather have: Baltimore’s, New York’s (either New York team), San Francisco, Pittsburgh, Philly, Houston, Atlanta’s, Detroit’s, Chicago’s, Seattle’s, Denver’s, Jacksonville’s, and Washington’s.
Also, I love how you criticize people for (correctly) stating that “defense doesn’t matter anymore,” but pull out the biggest oversimplification of them all “DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS” Yes, you need to have a good defense to get somewhere in the NFL. No, you don’t need a great one. But you do need a competent defense, however. Look, the rules changed when Polian threw a hissy fit in the competition committee and now it’s illegal for defenses to defend the pass, let alone play a WR tough. That shifted the focus of most teams to pass centric offenses. We saw ten QBs throw for four thousand yards this year, eleven if Schaub stayed healthy. What we saw with the Cowboys was a corner who was basically below replacement level the final six games of the season, including two crucial games against the Giants. There were other problems, but the biggest problem on the defense at the end of the season was Newman. Secondly we saw a team that ranked 29th in rush offense DVOA. So the defense had it’s fair share of problems, and the team couldn’t use the ground game to control the clock and protect leads.
It took SF home field, a miracle play, and Drew Brees having an awful day to advance in the playoffs. Baltimore, ehhh…we’ll see. They have an underrated offense that’s ranked 13th in DVOA but a crappy QB, and they’re facing the Pats at Gillette. They also had the luxury of facing a back up QB at home. The Giants, somehow managed to find a luck machine and they keep it in the back of the office. A negative point differential during the regular season and somehow they managed to be in the NFC Championship game.
The Giants weren't lucky, their defense improved
The Giants defense started off the season with injuries everywhere. Some were writing them off early in the season just because of injury.
As the season went on the Giants defense got healthier and a monster named JJP progressed as a player.
Their defense is now playing at a high level and outplayed the Packers’ offense.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 16, 2012 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
+1
they are playing very well right now. Their overall stats are hurrendous because for much of the year, they weren’t playing well/had injuries.
While they were lucky to make the playoffs, there is nothing lucky about their last two performances, they’ve played top level ball. In 2007 I felt like we kept them in the game the first 3 quarters when we should’ve been able to close the deal. I haven’t felt like that this year – they’ve been mauling teams for the last month.
What is the common thread between the 49ers and the Giants?
The ability to generate pressure with four guys or less (or only one guy in the case of Justin Smith).
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Both teams, in fact every playoff team (even the ones with bad defenses) have more talent in the secondary than the Cowboys do.
The 49ers have two Pro Bowl DBs, one a first round CB and the other a fourth round S. Their other starting S was a first rounder. Most of their backups were drafted in the first to third rounds.
The Giants have two first round CBs and another drafted in the second. They also have two first round Ss and another drafted in the second.
The Cowboys next year, considering that Newman is clearly done, are projected to start a fifth round CB opposite one first round CB who’s been inconsistent. One starting S is a fifth rounder and the other is an undrafted FA. Most of their backups are undrafted FAs.
Even the lowly Patriots and Packers defenses have more talent in the secondary than Dallas does. Every playoff team does.
It's not an either or...
The Giants have managed to get lucky and improve…the two aren’t mutually exclusive.
The Giants aren't lucky. They have just manned up and kicked butt.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 17, 2012 5:11 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

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