The Value Of The Cowboys' Number 14 Pick
by One.Cool.Customer on Jan 15, 2012 7:20 AM CST
in Dallas Cowboys 2012 Draft
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PrintTwo terms make the rounds annually as we begin our draft preparations: 'blue chip prospects' and 'first round grades'.
Blue chip prospects are truly elite talents that are projected to have an immediate impact at the NFL level and are likely to become some of the best players at their position. Depending on your exact definition and the talent available in a given draft, there are roughly between five and nine of these prospects every year, and usually all of them get picked within the top 10 picks of the draft.
As every team starts building their board for the draft, they assign grades to every prospect. We know that the Cowboys usually assign a little over 20 first-round grades per year, and this number also varies according to talent level.
With the fourteenth pick, the Cowboys are sitting somewhere in between the two scales. Unless the Cowboys trade up, the true blue chip prospects will likely all be gone by the time the clock starts ticking for the Cowboys on draft day. At the same time, some of the prospects being discussed as options for the Cowboys might be considered a reach at number 14.
Could this be an early indication that the Cowboys could make some moves on draft day? After the break, we look at historical precedent for trades involving the 14th pick.
The Trade Value Chart, sometimes referred to as the Jimmy Johnson draft chart, is the tool of choice for all draftniks contemplating trades, and teams are reported to use very similar versions of this chart. The chart assigns a point value to each draft pick, making it easier to compare the relative value of draft picks in different rounds. Using the logic of the value chart, the number 14 pick is worth 1,100 points. In case of a trade, the Cowboys should - in principle - look to get an equivalent value from another team in return for the pick.
Fast forward to draft day. The Cowboys are on the clock and the phone is ringing. Norv Turner is desperate for a linebacker. He knows the Eagles, who draft right after the Cowboys in 15th, have their sights set on the highest rated ILB, Luke Kuechly out of Boston College. Turner and the Chargers propose the following trade:
Hypothetical trade scenario
- Dallas trades its 14th pick (value 1,100 points).
- San Diego trades its 18th pick (900 points) & the 79th pick (195 points) to Dallas.
- Dallas gives 1,100 points and gets 1,095 points. Depending on how desperate the Chargers are, the Cowboys could potentially get them to include their 4th or 5th round pick to sweeten the deal, but in this scenario they are happy that somebody stuck it to the Eagles.
Teams try to get an equivalent value in draft day trades, but that doesn't always happen as neatly as in the example above. There are many considerations influencing the value of a pick, from supply and demand, draft strategy, available talent through competitive considerations and many more.
So let's look at how teams have historically valued the number 14 pick, and if that is reflective of the trade value chart. Since 1990, there have been four trade downs from the 14th spot. That's a little thin, so I've added all trades from the 13th spot as well:
| Year | Trade | Team Trading Down | Value | Team Trading Up | Value | Net Value |
| 2010 | 13 = 24, 70, 84 | Broncos | 1,150 | Eagles | 1,075 | -75 |
| 2005 | 13 = 16, next 3rd* | Texans | 1,150 | Saints | 1,070* | -80 |
| 2003 | 13 = 14, 193 | Bears | 1,150 | Patriots | 1,115 | -35 |
| 1997 | 13, 110 = 18, 91, 116, 181 | Oilers | 1,224 | Chiefs | 1,118 | -106 |
| 1996 | 13 = 18, 83, 201 | Rams | 1,150 | Bears | 1,087 | -63 |
| 1993 | 13 = 19, 75 | Packers | 1,150 | Eagles | 1,090 | -60 |
| 2007 | 14 +191 = 25, 59, 164 | Panthers | 1,116 | Jets | 1,057 | -59 |
| 2002 | 14 = 15, 110 | Titans | 1,100 | Giants | 1,124 | +24 |
| 2001 | 14 = 21, 51 | Bills | 1,100 | Buccaneers | 1,190 | +90 |
| 1991 | 14 = 17, 110 | Cowboys | 1,100 | Patriots | 1,024 | -76 |
[*"next 3rd" is a pick in the following year's draft. These picks are usually valued about one round lower, in this case I've valued the pick at 70 points, the equivalent of a mid fourth-round pick. Here's a nifty online draft pick calculator that can make your life a lot easier if you're into calculating these scenarios.]
The key takeaway here is that historically, trading down from a spot in the early teens (13th & 14th) has mostly resulted in a loss of point values - at least according to the draft value chart. Outside of the two positive trades in the table above, the net point loss historically has been the equivalent of a mid fourth-round pick.
Since 1990, the 13th and 14th picks have been used ten times to trade down, but only five times to trade up. The table summarizes those five trades, and with one big exception, they were all fairly even in terms of trade value.
| Year | Trade | Team Trading Up | Value | Team Trading Down | Value | Net Value |
| 2006 | 12 = 13, 181 | Ravens | 1,170 | Browns | 1,200 | +30 |
| 2003 | 13 = 14, 193 | Patriots | 1,115 | Bears | 1,050 | +35 |
| 2003 | 4 = 13, 22, 116 | Jets | 1,992 | Bears | 1,800 | -192 |
| 1994 | 12 = 13, 144 | Jets | 1,184 | Saints | 1,200 | +16 |
| 1993 | 11 = 14, 83 | Broncos | 1,275 | Browns | 1,250 | -25 |
Of course, a multitude of factors influence the value of a given trade, and the purpose of the draft is not to maximize some hypothetical draft value chart. Trade value does not win games. If you believe you have identified the players that will make a difference to your team, go get them. Make the deal. Do not get hung up on trade value.
In 2010 the Cowboys went after the players they wanted, trading up twice to get Dez Bryant and Sean Lee. Last year they stayed put and let Tyron Smith, Bruce Carter and DeMarco Murray come to them.
With more than 100 days left to go before the draft, we have no idea whether the Cowboys have already set their sights on a couple of football players they believe will make a difference to this team. But once the Cowboys have identified those players, if getting those players means trading down or trading up, so be it.
Just don't let those players get away.
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Blue Chippers?
I would love DeCastro, but I think he may fall into that range and thus putting him out of our range, especially with the new rookie pay scale, he could be a hot commodity. However I am tossed up with which position we should draft first, first round guys are usually high impact players, but we need so much any position wouldn’t hurt!
I don't see any scenario that decastro isn't a blue chipper at OG
The problem is OG is undervalued and typically a position you can fill adequately with a lower round pick. I personally am torn on the situation. On one hand decastro is a stud that should make our left side of the line superior for the next decade, but on the other we could probably use the draft pick to fill another spot and we could get a second round OG that will do the job good enough. it’s still way early. If they think decastro is “that good” which I think he is, I say draft him. If he’s not go get a more needed defensive pick. My problem is IMO no other pick is as sure fire as decastro is. Ingram, upshaw, Kirkpatrick and others have great potential and all should be great picks, but there are always busts. No way decastro is a bust.
by Dynamicduo on Jan 15, 2012 8:19 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Potential in the 1st rd gets you fired and loses you games
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 10:12 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well that's a ridiculous statement.
You want to know who have had potential? Demarcus Ware, Tyron Smith, Dez Bryant, Clay Matthews, JJ Watt, etc.
There is this terrible idea that somehow potential and college production are mutually exclusive. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The best picks in the draft by definition have the “potential” to greatly produce in the pro game. Potential is all about a player could transition to the next level.
It’s not about whether a track star like Teddy Williams can play WR. Potential isn’t just physical. Potential is about a player’s ceiling. Consequently, a guy like Teddy Williams actually has a low pro potential since he is so unlikely to acquire all the skills to play WR. The players with the highest pro potential go high in the draft. The ones with little potential go lower.
I want players with potential. You should too.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Yeah you're a thousand percent right here.
Trent Richardson has the potential to be the next AP/LT type back…so I guess if he gets hurt or can’t find a hole in the NFL the team that takes him is ran by idiots, right?
Potential is all about the player’s ceiling, which takes his physical tools, his football skills, and his approach to the game into context. Matt Kalil, Andrew Luck, Morris Claiborne, RGIII, Trent Richardson, Justin Blackmon, Riley Reiff, and Jonathan Martin all have very high potential. Their ceilings are pro-bowlers, and in some cases hall of famers. You take the player that you think can be the most successful in the NFL. You win some, and you lose some…the way it goes.
Maybe I should clarify
I want guys who have not only the potential to be produce at a high level, but who also produced big time in college. I don’t want to take a guy based purely on his upside if he wasn’t able to live up to it in College.
Julius Jones, and Anthony Spencer are perfect examples of players who had potential to succeed in the NFL, but didn’t fully live up to it during their college years. In Jones’ case, we passed on Steven Jackson for him. In Spencer’s case, we passed on LaMarr Woodley (the more decorated player nationally and in the big ten).
I wasn’t against taking Ware or Dez Bryant. I was a bit skeptical of Tyron Smith at first but the more I read up about him, saw highlights, I was fine with his selection by draft day.
My thing is, like I said, I don’t want to draft the next Spears, Julius, or Spencer to this team.
And I’m a fan of Matthews, Watt, Trent Richardson, who Omar Little mentioned.
But this whole you hope for the best when you draft is a load of hog wash. You can mitigate against blown picks by taking the correct player: never pass on a can’t miss player because you might get “similar production” or “good value if you trade down”. And never trade up for a Spencer when someone better than him is still on the board.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 8:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Look I don't want a Spencer or a Spears either
but my point is that you are engaging in a little revisionist history. Spencer had over 25 TFLs and 10.5 sacks in his final year of college. Spears was a first team All-American and had 9 sacks. Julius Jones holds the Notre Dame record for most 200 yard games in a season.
All those guys produced in college. For where they were taken, they seemed to be great picks. What defined them though is their ceilings were never that high. Spears’s strength never translated to pass rushing and his first step has not been good enough. Same for Spencer. Julius was actually great until he seemed to lose his vision somewhat and lost his burst.
All in all, it isn’t just so easy to say that we need to pick guys who produced. All those
guys you (and I) are ripping produced in college. The key is to find guys with the potential to be great NFL players for your team. Production is one aspect, but so is athleticism and scheme. You can’t simply say that potential is what gets coaches fired.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Creasy729 on Jan 15, 2012 10:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
That's my point
All those guys produced in college. For where they were taken, they seemed to be great picks. What defined them though is their ceilings were never that high.
I personally didn’t think their ceilings were worth being taken were we took them. Just my opinion.
We are in agreement about production+athleticism, and finding guys who have potential to be great for your team.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
Spears was the only one of the three who the writers thought highly enough of to select as an All-American
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
Right but you were saying earlier that you wanted guys that produced
and that potential was overrated. I am just saying that three of the guys you were specifically targeting as bad picks fit within what you were saying you were looking for.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
They may have "produced"
But not to the extent that I’d take them. I didn’t see them as high impact players.
I watched a lot of Steven Jackson and Julius Jones. Yes Jones had his 200 yard rushing games, but he wasn’t a complete back. Wasn’t a fan of him as a receiver, a blocker, and he wasn’t all that durable (in fact Parcells even criticized him for being injury prone). Jones in college, and in the NFL struck me as a player who needed a lot of touches to get his numbers. On the other hand, watching Jackson he, like you said “oozed talent” it was like watching Ricky Williams crossed with Marshall Faulk. He played like a man amongst boys.
I could live with Spears only because we didn’t take him ahead of Ware like it was being rumored initially.
As far as Spencer is concerned, His final two years he only had 12 sacks, compared to Woodley’s 18 sacks. For all the hoopla of Spencer’s tackles for loss numbers in 2006, the guy had 32 his final two years compared to Woodley’s 30 over the same two years. Woodley was the more consistent player. Woodley was the decorated player, Spencer wasn’t.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
I define high impact as being pro-bowl caliber
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
Look I am not saying that they were the best picks at the time.
I’m just saying that they were guys who had produced. That’s what you said you valued the most while citing these guys as examples of guys who only had “potential.” That is factually inaccurate. That is my entire point.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Fine it was actually inaccurate. Poor word choice.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
it seems pretty simple & good drafting organizations seem to be doing well in the NFL.
we passed on some really good players in the 1st round just to end up with Felix, Spears, Spencer, Carpenter & so far Dez & Mike Jenkins havent been home runs so this draft process (front office people/Gm) has been a total bust. i laughed when i heard someone was interviewing someone in Dallas’s front office for a GM job. if the scouting department cant hit more home runs in the 1st rounds your going no where fast.
Tyron was a solid/need pick & i wont take cheap shots at him but Dallas had a chance to get a game changer last season with JJ Watt.
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
Jenkins has been good when healthy
Bryant has been productive: he’s quietly scored 17 TDs, and caught 100+ passes for over 1400 yards in his two seasons (26/32 games). In 2011: he had over 50 grabs, 900 receiving yards, and 9 TDs.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 16, 2012 1:14 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I more or less agree. There are a lot of players with potential but why mess around if you can get a sure thing.
I don’t like taking guards , I would not take one in the first round out of need even if there was a solid player but DeCastro will probably be a pro bowl player , not just a solid player – you can’t fight fate.
I would rather that the Cowboys had a shot at a Mario Willliams type DE. but fate is what it is.
The Cowboys are screwed up now cause of the 2009 and probably the 2006 drafts.
If we had gotten some value from those drafts we would not have the needs or problems we have now.
Bust and jags is what mess you up. DeCastro won’t bust and he probably won’t be a jag either.
by Jonathan Stern on Jan 15, 2012 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
I hope someone takes DeCastro before we do cause I hate taking guards but if he there I don’t think we can not NOT take him
by Jonathan Stern on Jan 15, 2012 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
I'd be ecstatic if DeCastro is there at 14.
by BrickTop on Jan 15, 2012 11:05 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Me too, I can't think of a better way to end round 1 of the draft, than if Decastro falls to us.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
I'd target Jenkin's in round 2 if he falls. I'd consider a trade up if necassary.
Get a DE in FA and a S too. If the money’s there sign Nicks or Grubbs. OL will then be dominant for years and the D will be much better.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
If we got decastro in the first andjenkins in the second it would be our best draft in years regardless of who else we draft.
I doubt Jenkins makes it to the second round at all
by Dynamicduo on Jan 15, 2012 6:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
even if you got Jenkins in the 2nd round the risk/challenge is the same.
talent wise Jenkins is a no brainer top 10 pick but he’s got a lot to prove from the neck up. Dallas is already babysitting one diva WR & until Dez takes that next step i doubt we see many players that aren’t leaders drafted by Garrett.
i love J.Jenkins bc if plays smart he becomes the next D.Revis.
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
would you burn draft picks to get Jenkins at the end of round one if we take DeCastro at 14?
2 3 4 5 6 7
Then we sign Jason Jones as a F/A
by Jonathan Stern on Jan 15, 2012 9:46 PM CST up reply actions
So you think if DeCastro's there he's too good to pass up...but you want someone else to take him?
Look just about any other guard of the past five years not named Mike Iupati and I’m with you all the way. I wouldn’t take them at 14 either…but DeCastro’s special enough to warrant taking at 14. You want the team to miss out on a chance at a HoF guard that’ll be there for a decade? If you’re in your 30s now DeCastro will still be kicking ass and taking names when you’re in your 40s. Think about that.
He's already in the HoF, lol? Larry Allen was taken in the second round in 1994.
Three of the four offensive linemen taken in the first round that year (one at #14) combined for 0 career Pro Bowls. The last one taken in the first round went to two Pro Bowls. Maybe you should tap the breaks a bit on this “can’t miss” stuff.
Personally I wouldn’t mind seeing us get a guy like DeCastro, but only if the far more glaring need at CB is addressed in FA. Otherwise we have to at least try to get a starting quality corner in the first round.
+1
DL/OLB/ILB/S/CB are all bigger needs then a Guard. its not even close & theres plenty of proven Guards in the middle to later rounds compared to finding a franchise/game changer at DL/OLB (Spencers replacement) or CB in the first round.
i wouldn’t give a 1st round pick for the best Guard in the NFL right now. the draft is full of guys that can play the Guard position well enough.
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
The 2004 draft also killed this team
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 11:39 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Dude I could run big waterfalls 8 years ago too.
Your back can only take sooo much…
by StarloverinWNC on Jan 15, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah if they had a good draft eight years ago I'm unsure anyone from that class would still be on the team
Please…go back that far and improve the team they probably don’t have Romo or Ware either. I’m sure if they had a good 2004 draft they pick a lot lower in 2005 and miss out on Ware. Sheesh. You know what else killed this team? David LaFluer and the Joey Galloway trade!!!!! Please.
I don't think JAGs mess you up.
Busts and average players are a part of football. You can’t have a pro-bowler at every position, and you need average guys. Did AJ Hawk mess up the Packers, how about Rashard Mendenhall and his sub-4 YPC prior to this year? Did he mess the Steelers up? You’ll get those in the draft, I think is what kills you the most is taking project players in the first round. Bruce Campbell type players…guys that need to be taught football, that’s what kills you. If you take an average guy you’re at least adding a starter and likely someone who will start immediately. That’ll allow you to replace your average guys or slightly above average guys that are about to get expensive cheaply. There’s value in that. 2009, that’s what messed this team up. Imagine if they had a JAG at corner? You likely wouldn’t have seen Newman’s terrible performance at the end of the year. Same thing for JAG along the DL or Center. However, if they did have a good 2009 draft they likely have a better 2010 season and don’t have Tron, Bruce Carter, and maybe even Murray. If you take away the dark clouds you take away the silver linings.
Larry Allen was a guard
11 Pro Bowls. Second-round pick, yes, but definitely worth a high first-round. Without him, Emmitt Smith isn’t Emmitt Smith, and the dominant Cowboys of the 90s…I say, that cherished history might never have happened.
Emmitt Smith already established himself prior to Larry Allen's arrival
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
He had indeed. I had thought Allen came along earlier.
Oh well. My point is that I don’t mind if we take a guard in the first round. Larry Allen was a freakishly good pick, and I would have taken him (in hindsight) as early as possible. Certainly above Shante Carver, our actual first choice in 1994.
Larry Allen was drafted as a LT
and played there before moving to OG. In fact, he’s one of 3 guys who has ever made the pro bowl at 2 different positions…
by Tyrone Jenkins on Jan 16, 2012 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
shows how immensely talented the man was
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 16, 2012 1:16 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Also with Callahan now on board as OL coach, it will be interesting to see his input on any OL in this draft, whether it be first round talent or later
I am with you on this
If he is as good as it sounds,We may not go high in the draft for the o-line. I know DeCastro looks very good. But the great Larry Allen was a 2ed rounder.
I feel that the “D” should be the first thing in the draft. I think that a high powered “O” is good, But a good top 10 “D” is just as good. We do have a very good “O” now with a few young linemen growing.
I would like to have a “D” like SF, Because they put a hurting on the Brees and co. We maybe 1 or 2 O-Linemen away but they could be in house already. If we get a “D” that can match our “O” we would be a hard team to stop.IMHO
by tattooed cowboy on Jan 15, 2012 8:04 AM CST up reply actions
The guys you ppl want in to take on defense witj pick #14 will all be reaches
They have too much bust potential. I don’t want the 14th pick used on potentially the next Anthony Spencer, Terence Newman, or Marcus Spears. To me that would warrant an F grade.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 10:15 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
tnew
Terence Newman was a good pick. Not great for top ten but good. Solid starter for the better part of a decade.
by ary201 on Jan 15, 2012 10:39 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
If you're selecting a skill position player in the top ten
It can’t just “be a solid starter for a decade” it has to be a home run.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 10:42 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Um
teams don’t know what players will be homeruns or not. Thats why they are prospects. You take players with more talent than others with the HOPE they will be what you expect.
by BrickTop on Jan 15, 2012 10:46 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
TNEW was an EXCELLENT pick
A lot of people undervalue him when he was in his prime because he was more in the mold of Nnamdi than he was Revis. Tnew had seasons where he was targeted sparingly and when he was, had a tremendous # of batted balls, deflected passes and disrupted routes. TNEW was one VERY good cover corner. He wasn’t Deion and had had to suffer because of it.
Now that he’s older and less capable, people want to throw him away like a piece of trash. I agree, he shouldn’t be starting nor should he be receiving the pay he’s getting but that doesn’t discount how good he used to be.
Show some respect!
by Tyrone Jenkins on Jan 16, 2012 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
I shouldn't have included Newman on the list
Just still sour about the season still.
I still feel the way I do about Spencer and Spears. But Newman, I’m sorry.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 16, 2012 1:23 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
No such thing as a "home run" pick in the NFL.
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
Yes there is
Peyton Manning was the definition of a home run.
by Tyrone Jenkins on Jan 16, 2012 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
In hindsight he was.
Naming just him is ludicrous, every player in the the Hall of Fame was a home run pick looking back. What I am saying is that you don’t know that they are going to be great until they have played in the NFL and prove it. A lot of first round picks are busts. And remember Charlie Ward? QB from Florida State that won the Heisman Trophy? Would you say he was a home run pick just because he won the heisman? Guess what…he didn’t even play a down in the NFL. So no, there is no such thing as a home run pick in the draft. You have to play, prove yourself, and earn that title.
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
All 3 were good picks, more like Bs.
Barbie was a F.
The only prefect science is hindsight............Lock n Load
I might be overdoing it with Newman
but I don’t want the next Marcus Spears or Anthony Spencer with the 14th pick of the draft.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 11:18 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well then I suggest you draft on potential.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Spencer was a "potential" guy even though Woodley out produced him college, same conference.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 8:23 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
By a marginal amount on a lesser team with a lesser supporting cast.
There is a reason Woodley fell to the second round. We weren’t the only team that had that duo graded badly.
I am actually a huge Michigan fan and count Lamar Woodly among my favorite players of all-time but you cannot pretend that he just completely out produced Spencer. I believe Spencer had more TFLs despite being the only dominating player on his team. Michigan had three defensive lineman who were pretty dominant that year in Woodley, Branch, and Taylor. I don’t think their production, at least for the year leading up to the draft was as different as you think.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Creasy729 on Jan 15, 2012 10:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Both play the sa,e position in the NFL, and Woodley has more than doubled Spencer's sack totals in their 5 yr NFL careers
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
Well you have officially lost track of the argument. There is no doubt that Woodley is better.
You said (paraphrasing): “Production is what gets coaches fired.”
You said (paraphrasing): “I want to avoid picking guys like Anthony Spencer, Marcus Spears, and Julius Jones”
You said (paraphrasing): “I value players who produced big-time in college”
I said (paraphrasing): “Anthony Spencer, Marcus Spears and Julius Jones all produced big time in college.”
You said (paraphrasing): “Woodley outperformed Spencer significantly in college”
I said (paraphrasing): “In their final years, Spencer and Woodley were similar with Spencer arguably being better (10.5 versus 12 sacks, 26.5 TFLs versus 16.5 TFLs)”
You said (paraphrasing): “Woodley has been the better pro”
See how the argument goes off track? My point has always been that there is a lot more to it than production. You agreed elsewhere in the thread, yet are hell bent on proving how much better Woodley was than Spencer. That really wasn’t the case statistically for the year leading up to the draft (which is always weighted the heaviest by far). That has been my point all along. I wish we had drafted Woodley and count him as probably my favorite non-Cowboy player. No disagreement there at all.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
that is why JG wants the RKG...
Garret wants players who work hard and love the game. However, he wants smart players as well!!! I wonder what last drafts players scored on their Wonder-lick; can anyone find that information?
"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!
by mho on Jan 15, 2012 11:26 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Well that is revisionist history to the extreme.
Marcus Spears and Anthony Spencer were both considered great values and safe picks at the time considering their college production.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Woodley was a better player than Spencer and still on the board when we drafted Spencer.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 8:25 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Allen was a hidden Gem, from Sonoma State. A school that no longer has football.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
bringing in a coach makes me think there happy with the talent in house.
i’m not saying they wont target a Center, Guard or even a Tackle if the value was to great in the draft but i expect not much is going to change. Left Guard & Center should create some competetion
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
Blue Chipper
or, an All Pro. You can’t have enough of those kind of players. Sean Lee is gonna make All Pro. Ware is All Pro. Tyron Smith will make All Pro. Romo could do it, and if Dallas expects to contend for a championship, then Romo will have to be All Pro, or right next to it. All Pro is more than simply pro bowl material, or making that dubious honor. All Pro means you are first or second team starter for an all NFL squad. If you can get an All Pro candidate, then you must make that move.
If the O line developes and Tony keeps going as he starting at the Pats game
I think you can consider him all pro. He cut down on his mistakes while making good throws.
The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT
If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.
by Final Frame on Jan 15, 2012 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
I agree
If Decastro is not there and either Martin or Reiff slide, I’d take either one and move Free to guard. Almost as good as picking DeCastro. Still would add a G in FA. Grubbs or Nicks.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
Im torn between 3 players
Ingram, DeCastro and Kirkpatrick if dallas get any of those 3 players i would be happy
"This team is going to win a Super Bowl at some point. It's going to be exciting when that time comes. And when we look back, we'll know who was on what side of the fence during those tough moments." - Tony Romo
These 3 have been my top 3 since day 1.
And another player I have changed my opinion about is Jenkins. He is possibly the most talented CB in the draft and if he’s not higher than Claiborne he’s right behind them, ahead of Kirkpatrick. I didn’t like him early, and still have questions, because he’s an idiot who got busted with weed twice. BUT, if they interview him and he seems to have legitimately learned his lesson, I think he is another blue chip talent that easily could fall to us at 14th. Plain and simple if he didn’t get busted with weed, he’s a top 10 pick. But idk about him yet, team interviews will tell the story on him. It’s not like he went and kicked a marine in the face, he smoked weed, a lot of football players do the same exact thing, they just don’t get busted TWICE!!!
by Dynamicduo on Jan 15, 2012 8:26 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Do you think he falls farther then people are thinking?
by BrickTop on Jan 15, 2012 8:28 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
But the story came out last week that weed doesn't harm the lungs.
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
With you there
Those three were the only players I wanted at 14. A trade down would be only if they were gone. There are others later in the first that would fill in nicely. Kontz, Perry, Barron or Jenkins and others would fill needs later in the first.
i just dont buy into kirkpatrick being 6'3 & being effective with quick shifty recievers.
he’s linky & played on a defense that had a NFL front 7
Every team has a great gameplan until they get Punched in the Mouth. Sean Lee is a welcomed addition at ILB & Kegabear's prediction about Spencer looks spot on so far.
DC do you really think that Alabama has a NFL front 7?
I don’t think so… I do think they had the best defense at a college level this year but NFL quality. Alabama is a good college team but they would lose 9/10 games to any pro team… I’m not talking about going up against teams like Green Bay or New Orleans but the lower tier teams… below 8-8. Cleveland would beat them 9 of 10 times. No way any college level team can win in the NFL.
RexP
I want Kirkpatrick or DeCastro
Maybe Dallas trades up 2-3 spots for either one. But hopefully one falls.
by BrickTop on Jan 15, 2012 8:22 AM CST via mobile reply actions
i could easily see dallas give up a 3rd if kirkpatrick gets close to them
"This team is going to win a Super Bowl at some point. It's going to be exciting when that time comes. And when we look back, we'll know who was on what side of the fence during those tough moments." - Tony Romo
I wouldn't give up any picks
To take Kirkpatrick. Corner is also a very deep position in this yr’s draft.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 10:45 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
i never liked trading down just seems like you miss more times than not
"This team is going to win a Super Bowl at some point. It's going to be exciting when that time comes. And when we look back, we'll know who was on what side of the fence during those tough moments." - Tony Romo
I love it
i have always been more into the college game, and I follow it closely. I find it easy to spot many good players that will fall into the later rounds.
New England does it. How’d that work for them?
by soonercowboy14 on Jan 15, 2012 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
New England actually drafts much worse than you think. Really look at their drafts and consider how they have panned out in the pros.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
They really have missed more often than you think. They just have so many they're bound to hit on some.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
Exactly
They have so many picks that they can have some bad picks. They generally have 10-12 picks each year. Let’s say they on about 1/3 ofntheir picks. That’s 4 each draft. If we hit on 1/3 as well, we only get two hits. That’s a big margin.
by soonercowboy14 on Jan 15, 2012 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
That's waht I've been thinking. They've made a philisophical decision to trade and stockpile picks.
This is why they’re competitive year after year, it’s their depth and guys you never heard of who step in.
(Superior coaching helps too)
We all know the draft is a crapshoot, therefore it’s only logical to conclude that the more picks you get the better chance you have.
But you want those picks 2nd/3rd/4th rounds, not all late-rounders.
Some years you keep your pick when you feel very sure. But most years you try to trade and stockpile.
Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, the real question is, is it a good beer? Realist Larry, 2011
by Realist Larry on Jan 15, 2012 3:28 PM CST up reply actions
Right with ya
Some of our best players are not high draft picks, indicating that there is something that makes a player good but can’t really be seen by scouts. Increase your chances at finding one by having multiple shots. Then coach the bejesus out of em
For me it all depends on who is still on the board and who is drafting between us and the trade partner, and what they may need
Exactly
I like the idea of trading down, but only like to 17 or 18. If the guy you want will still be there (presumably), or there is another guy you like almost as much, it’s worth it to add another pick.
A scenario like Decastro, Ingram, Jenkins, and Upshaw are all there at 14, and you can trade to 18 and add an extra 3rd rounder, I’d jump on it. Also, Michael Brockers from LSU will move into that mix as well, IMO.
by sportsfanatic21 on Jan 15, 2012 8:49 AM CST up reply actions
This is normally
a pretty fluid board for the next couple of months. The combine normally is when things begin to solidify. I think a trade down might be the answer this year if there is nobody the Cowboys really love at 14. There seem right now to be a large group in the late first and second rd that are graded about the same. Picking up an extra pick might fill another need.
The Cowboys will be players
In 2010 they landed two blue chip players. In 2011, they may have gotten 3. We know they got two. I expect the Cowboys have a similar plan this year. DeCastro would be great, but our greater need on the offensive line is center. By trading down a few spots we could still get an impact player, and pick up an extra pick.
In recent drafts this might be the best time to look at an aggressive trade down. In trade down scenarios that could land us an extra 2nd round pick, we could still choose from players in the 1st like Janoris Jenkins, Peter Konz, Dontari Poe, and Courtney Upshaw. We get one of these 4 players, and still have 2 more picks in the top 60. As much as I like DeCastro, I’d rather have one of those four players, and come out of the 2nd round with 3 exciting players.
We have the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you don't have that, find the door.
Jason Garrett
by White Wolf on Jan 15, 2012 9:25 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Upshaw, Jenkins and Poe are borderline 1st rounders
Why do you want to draft 2 or 3 second round picks as opposed to getting a true 1st round stud, and another good player in the 2nd?
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 10:49 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm thinking
1. Dontari Poe
2. Chase Minnifield
2. Ben Jones
3. Markelle Martin
JMO.
We have the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you don't have that, find the door.
Jason Garrett
Is Martin gonna make it to our pick in Rd #3?
by StarloverinWNC on Jan 15, 2012 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
Debatable
Due to lack of depth at the position he might not. Depending on the site, he’s rated anywhere from the mid 50’s up to about 70.
We have the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you don't have that, find the door.
Jason Garrett
If you want to go balls out and draft Defense
1) Quinton Coples a 3-4 DE
2) Markelle Martin FS/SS
3) Vontaez Burfict ILB/OLB-this guy really oozes talent, but had an up an down final season at ASU. He could slip to either the second or third round, but is a first round talent. He’s a heat seaking missile, reminds of Joey Porter. Plays with passion, but has to learn how to channel his aggression. The guy loves football and loves to hit. Rob Ryan would kill to have this kid.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 9:12 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Coples has question marks.
Coples isn’t rated as a first round pick by everyone. His senior season wasn’t as good as his junior season, and there were questions about his motor and love of the game. Doesn’t sound like an RKG. I think the guy is good, but I’d rather see the Cowboys get that pocket pushing DT. Remember, build from the inside out.
Burfict won’t be there in the third. Somewhere in there we need a center. Again, build from the middle out. I’m taking Jones in the second because in my trade down scenario I have two 2nds. I get a quality center, and quality cornerback in the 2nd.
We have the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you don't have that, find the door.
Jason Garrett
Coples
2011: All ACC First Team, 51 Tackles, 13 TFL (64 yards lost), 7.5 sacks, 3 forced fumbles. He was constantly double teamed in 2011.
2010: 59 tackles, 10 sacks, 15.5 tackles for loss, 2 pass breakups, 1 forced fumble. The NCAA cleared him of all wrong doing in the UNC agent scandal.
2009: 22 tackles, 6.5 tackles for loss, 5 sacks
2008: 8 tackles, 3.5 tackles for loss, 1.5 sacks as a freshman who didn’t start.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=82311&draftyear=2012&genpos=DT
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
Couples is an Interesting Case....
He will be less defined by his Measureables, and more by his Interviews…… though If HE pits up anything similar to these stats:
Vertical Jump: 35 1/2
Broad Jump: 09’06"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.13
3-Cone Drill: 7.08
If Couples does that at the Combine, then falls to #10?…I am on the phone trading up for him…..end of discussion….IF I get him?
I move Ratliff the LDE, stick Couples at RDE, with Lissmore and or JOsh Brent Between them….and tell them:
“Sic ’em boys.”
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 15, 2012 11:49 PM CST up reply actions
Sounds good to me
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
.. my view of Coples
and Iron it’s Coples not Couples… lol
Watched every game he played… he was great in his Junior year but after all the hoopla at NC and the NCAA Investigations he quit on the team. Simple as that he did enough to keep the scouts looking but not enough to help his team win. His bowl game was atrocious… he completely lost interest. Heart is the big thing with him and he just doesn’t have any. I don’t see it in any of his play… he quits on plays, get’s caught out of position and though he has the talent to recover he just doesn’t make any effort.
Play goes to the weak side and he’s making a bull rush …RB goes by him does he turn and chase no he watches him run down the field. He’s quick has and excellent motor when he uses it but simply not an RKG.
One thing that you see in college athletics is team spirit and team pride. From the lowest level to the highest level. If you are a BAMA player or a North Alabama player.. you love your university and your team. Coples just isn’t that type of guy. IMO if he’s not going to lay it out on a college level what happens on a PRO level… does the money really effect these guys like that or do they think they are entitled.
RexP
Compare Coples #s
with those of Spencer when he was coming out of college.
Not too far off.
Do you really want to use a #14 pick on another Anthony Spencer?
by Tyrone Jenkins on Jan 16, 2012 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
I know what his numbers say...
but they’re not telling the whole story. If he starts to drop, I’m pretty sure someone in the first round will take him, but I just hope its not us.
We have the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you don't have that, find the door.
Jason Garrett
I don't want Coples or VBurfict.
We don’t need more problem children, we need hard working football players.
Janoris Jenkins, on talent, is not a borderline first round pick. Seriously go watch his film.
The guy just oozes talent. As does Ingram. I haven’t watched Poe, but Ingram and Jenkins will be firmly first round talents once the draft comes around.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Poe is a first round talent too.
And if Konz doesn’t go in the first round…grab him.
We have the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you don't have that, find the door.
Jason Garrett
If you're speaking about the pulmonary embolism...
that happened in his freshman year after an airplane flight, and he hasn’t had any problems with blood clots in his lungs since that event. If his physician did not think he was completely recovered there is no way he would have been allowed to continue playing. There is some speculation he could drop based on the dislocated ankle he suffered in November 2011. Frankly, that would just make him a better value.
We have the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you don't have that, find the door.
Jason Garrett
I've watched Jenkins. But I worry he'll do somethinf stupid like Pacman
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 8:28 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
something*
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 8:28 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Jenkins
Top 10 Talent wise… bottom 10 common sense wise. You have all that talent and you put yourself in a position to get arrested… I don’t get it. You are looking at a life of luxury, fame, beautiful women and what do you do… you go smoke it up at the local tavern… simply inexcusable… not smart. Shows me no brains or common sense. Personally I don’t care if he smokes dope or he likes to watch the guys in the shower… what he does personally is up to him. When it comes to dope if he gets caught he puts the team at risk… Where would I put him on my list… I don’t really know. Personally I don’t want to see him in a Cowboy’s helmet but that’s my opinion. If he is drafted and stays off drugs then ok… I’m cool he was just a kid made a stupid mistake. Just when he does get caught remember I told you so.
RexP
I don't think we'll be able to speculate until FA
I think its safer to draft an oline then it is to sign a contract for an FA that may bust or stop pushing themselves once signed. It can go with anyone but I think over the years we’ve kept or signed more broken o line backups then hit gold. I can see the front office getting one solid CB out of the FA market after what happened last year, hopefully they don’t over pay. Sign an FA, draft an up and comer and we could have a pretty decent secondary.
The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT
If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.
by Final Frame on Jan 15, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
Thinking
Jenkins, FA, Scandrick, rookie, Mario Butler. No Ball, no Walker, and no Newman.
The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT
If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.
by Final Frame on Jan 15, 2012 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
Most definitely...
Subject to change, based on free agency, which is sure to keep the merri-go-round moving.
We have the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you don't have that, find the door.
Jason Garrett
Actually the more I think of it
The more I like the idea of mario williams. Only because he has the aptitude to play a 3-4 OLB but if we go hybrid he can definitely play the DE like Ware. Add Hatcher into the mix with Ratliff and we have a potential like Washingtons front 7. Lets not overpay players like Ball when we can go out and sign guys for 1 year for less money to do the same.
The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT
If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.
by Final Frame on Jan 15, 2012 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
Mario Williams is a difference maker...
if we can afford him.
We have the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you don't have that, find the door.
Jason Garrett
Don't trade up or down!
I wouldn’t trade up ever, unless it was for an consensus Hall of Fame prospect like Andrew Luck, Lawrence Taylor, etc. It seems that when you are the team intiating the trade up, you lose value. Doing this a few times in a decade and you end up shorting yourself some very good players (adding up the cumulative lost value points).
I wouldn’t trade down either unless I got ‘an offer I couldn’t refuse’ ie: something akin to the Herschell Walker deal.
Using the example provided, last year we got 3 good players by standing pat vs 2 good players the year before by trading up.
We’re still rebuilding and I think we need a quantity of quality.
"He has a peculiar felicity of expression." John Adams
Ageed
I wouldn’t trade up either, esp this year, we have too many holes to fill, and staying pat and getting BPA (filling a need) is the right approach. A trade down only if the deal is too good to pass up
by carolinacowboy on Jan 15, 2012 10:12 AM CST up reply actions
In 2004 we needed a RB which was glaring hole on the offense.
We had Steven Jackson fall to us. The Master Genius, Bill Parcells thought it would be a swell idea to trade the pick to Buffalo for their first rd pick in 2005, and as a result, we take Julius Jones in the 2nd RD.
Who did we use the Buffalo 1st Rd pick on? Marcus freaking Spears.
This is what you guys want to do, trade back from taking a nice talented player who can help our OLINE out for a decade and be a pro bowl caliber player, only to get lesser guarantees in the both the first and second. Go ahead it’s your funeral if it fails is what I would say to my head coach and gm who pull that crap.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 10:40 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Stephen Jackson is a different animal
We could put an oline in front of him made out of WR’s and he’d still get yardage……..but I see your point.
The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT
If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.
by Final Frame on Jan 15, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
Having the Pick for Spears
. . . also emboldened the Cowboys to take the chance on Ware, with the other first rounder that year.
luck
Andrew luck is a consensus hall of fame player? Wow.
by ary201 on Jan 15, 2012 10:43 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yes he is. He's the best QB prospect since Elway.
That’s how good he is.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 10:46 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I feel kinda sorry for him if he goes to Indy
won’t have a Harrison like Manning did, Wayne will probably be gone as will Clark, they have no running game, their o-line is decent but nothing special and their defense can’t stop a nose bleed
"This team is going to win a Super Bowl at some point. It's going to be exciting when that time comes. And when we look back, we'll know who was on what side of the fence during those tough moments." - Tony Romo
by Trueblue122 on Jan 15, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
The Colts plan is to bottom out the next few seasons and rebuild
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 10:52 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Luck is exactly what you say he is...a prospect!
Time will tell. Ryan Leaf was all the talk entering the draft…How’d that work out for him?
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
And if he's so great, how come he didn't win the Heisman?
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
Peyton Manning never won the Heisman Trophy
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 11:09 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
We aren't talking about Peyton Manning.
You said he was the best thing since Elway. What’s that make RG3 then?
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
And Tony Romo wan't even drafted, but
he is one great QB. You think Luck will be better than Tony? I highly doubt it.
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
I actually do think Luck will be better than Tony. And that's no slight to Tony at all.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 8:53 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Your opinion.
If you happen to be right then we are in for a real treat for the next 10 years. Tony’s QB rating is in the top 5 of ALL TIME. And let’s not get into the number of wins in the post season bull crap, those arguments are for trolls and uneducated Cowboys fans.
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
Scouts were only raving about Leaf's cannon arm
There were concerns about his mental make up which the Chargers ignored with the # 2 overall pick. Manning went #1 overall.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 11:11 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Colts went back and forth for weeks before they decided on Manning.
They just got lucky they made the right pick. And Manning doesn’t call his own plays. The play is sent in and he has the option to audible just like every other QB in the league. All that crap he does pre-snap is 90% fake so that the defense doesn’t know for sure when he is calling an audible.
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
actually that has been proven False
Peyton does more than any other QB in the League for his team…HE not aonly will call his own plays, but will also call the blocking assignments for each Lineman
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 15, 2012 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
hence why learning that indy O is so tough for linemen
Peyton calls audibles and you have to pick them up unless you want him yelling at you.
"Deion never played quarterback in the National Football League, so his comments are based off the other side of the ball. If you play my position and criticism can really affect you and hurt you and make you play differently, then you’re only gonna be around for so long anyway. The whole objective is to keep getting better. Keep finding ways to improve, and if your talented enough and good enough, you will lead your team to the Super Bowl. That will happen around here, it will."
by willyoubemycharizard on Jan 15, 2012 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
Every lineman in the NFL has to pick up on the audibles called
or they will be yelled at. The Colts don’t do anything that any other team doesn’t do. This is a copycat league and if they did something that worked better than anyone else, it would be copied. Sounds like Peyton not only has most defenses fooled by his fake calls, but he apparently also has some of you guys fooled also.
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
Actually, the Colts had their minds made up after interviewing Leaf.
The Chargers were stuck, they needed a QB desperately so they took Leaf. I lived in SD, I followed that situation closely.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 8:34 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
But talent wise, before the interview, it was very close.
Lots of debate leading up to the draft about which one to take. That’s what I have been trying to say…just because someone is very talented in college, doesn’t mean that they will be successful in the NFL. Andrew Luck might be the next Heath Shuler. What I mean by that is, Shuler is currently in the House of Representatives and has served multiple terms. Just because you are smart, doesn’t mean you will be successful in the NFL. Art Schlister was very talented but had a gambling problem. We won’t know about Luck until a few years from now. You give a 22 year old millions of dollars and you never know what kind of trouble they can get into.
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
Andrew Luck is not only talented, bit he's also a very cerebral player.
He calls his own plays like Peyton Manning, and does everything Manning, Brees, Brady, Rodgers do pre-snap, including audible. Most college QBs including everyone’s new favorite sensation, Robert Griffin 3, don’t get full control of the offense like Luck received.
The last QB to have full control of the offense like Luck had, was Peyton Manning.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 11:16 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
What happens when Luck has to throw on every down like Manning ?
Stanford is a run first team, Not everything was put on him like it was with Peyton. He also had 2 linemen going in the top 10 protecting him, now he has a weak oline to work with now
"This team is going to win a Super Bowl at some point. It's going to be exciting when that time comes. And when we look back, we'll know who was on what side of the fence during those tough moments." - Tony Romo
by Trueblue122 on Jan 15, 2012 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
Manning had to go throw growing pains his first yr in Indy
Luck will have to go throw same things. Luck’s first two seasons at Stanford, when the team wasn’t all that great will be a good a experience to draw from for his rookie season in the NFL.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 11:42 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Jason Garrett is an Ivy Leaguer.
Did that make him a very cerebral QB?
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
Nope not always
But not all coaches are sports related. There are coaches out there that are just really observant and it does help them be successful.
The Garrett Guillotine demands more blood!
by Blue Eyed Devil on Sep 5, 2011 3:30 PM PDT
If you're going to eat poison, you might as well lick the plate.
by Final Frame on Jan 15, 2012 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
My point is...
Just because Andrew Luck is a cerebral QB, doesn’t mean that he will be a great QB. We aren’t talking about coaching.
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
Here is how I see it
you have to trade up for Kirkpatrick
you can probably stay at 14 and get DeCastro
or you can probably trade back a little and get Ingram
"This team is going to win a Super Bowl at some point. It's going to be exciting when that time comes. And when we look back, we'll know who was on what side of the fence during those tough moments." - Tony Romo
I will not trade down for Ingram when there's better pass rushers than him
Perry, Mercilus, Curry all come to mind. NFL Draftscour rates Ingram as a 2nd round talent.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 10:51 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I like the pass rushers in this draft
I like Melvin Ingram but I’m really getting excited about Nick Perry, I think he could be exactly what we’re looking for.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 15, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Is he related to William "The Refrigerator" Perry?
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
I definitely like Nick Perry
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 9:15 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
And CBSSports has Ingram as their #14th best player. What's your point? That I should trust NFL Draftscour more?
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
NFL Draft Scout which is partners with CBS Sports
they rank Ingram as borderline first round pick
These guys do really good work scouting college players.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 8:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I like their work but I like CBS's too.
Either way, we will know more about Ingram once the combine rolls around.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Creasy729 on Jan 15, 2012 10:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
NFL Draft Scout works with CBS. CBS's info from these prospects comes from NFL Draft Scout
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
So they have Ingram at #14 overall because NFL Draft Scout told them to?
Is that what you are saying?
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
NFL Draft Scout has Ingram listed as borderline 1st rd pick.
NFL Draft Scoutz, as far as I know doesn’t engage in mock drafts. They do the scouting for CBS, and then CBS’ staff writers do the mock drafts.
I saw two mock drafts on CBS today. One had Ingram going in the 20s, the other one had him in the top 15. I honestly don’t know where he’ll end up, but ai’m going to take a wait and see approach with him until I see his combine stats. Right now, I’ve been on the record as saying if we are taking an OLB prospect in the 1st Rd, I’d prefer to take Nick Perry.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
Sorry for the typos today. I just got an IPad, and I'm still getting used to the key pad.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
Finish the Romo Friendly Plan
Watching Brees, Rodgers, Manning, and Brady stand back there with no pressure 50% of their pass plays…He’s been running around or having to rush for too long now. Finish the Plan.
+52
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
Plus 104
Protection is the name of the game on O
Penetration on the D side.
We have little of either one at this point
104?
There are 2 DeCastro’s in the draft? Cool.
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
Unless we run a more spread offense with more trust in Tony
I don’t see us ever reaching that level of production.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
I do agree with this
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
How many draft choices does dallas have this year? I think we have one in each round but I’m not sure.
by cjs.93 on Jan 15, 2012 11:18 AM CST via mobile reply actions
we currently have 7
We should get a 5th (maybe a 4th!) rounder for Stephen Bowen’s departure in free agency.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 15, 2012 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
I Want Bowen Back
. . . Dallas should have resigned him.
I'd love to see the Texans pull off an upset.
The only prefect science is hindsight............Lock n Load
Isn't today
the deadline to declare? What time is declaring for the draft officially over?
by BrickTop on Jan 15, 2012 11:29 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Interesting Analysis - this says we won't trade up
Trading up is extremely expensive with only 2 teams able to execute a trade for more than 1 draft place.
Last year the Jaguars offered us a 1st and a 2nd to move from #16 to #10. This team doesn’t need to blow it’s very valuable 1st and 2nd round picks on one player.
by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 15, 2012 11:33 AM CST reply actions
What if Claiborne or Matt Kalil falls with in reach?
Claiborne is obvious and if they get Kalil they’d just move Free to guard.
IF either drop to 10-14...
I am on the phone trading up…..
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 15, 2012 3:08 PM CST up reply actions
You'd be foolish not to.
I just hate rigid rules “don’t trade up,” “don’t trade down,” “don’t take a guard in the top half of the first round,” “you gotta take a QB 1/1,” etc. etc. There’s exceptions to every rule, I can easily see a scenario where it’s worth it to trade up for a player. As we discussed below, there’s scenarios where it’s worth it to trade back into the 1st.
Nose Tackle...
Could Brandon McKinney be an option at the Nose? I believe he is a free agent after this year.
by jtgreet02 on Jan 15, 2012 12:45 PM CST via mobile reply actions
If Ledarius Webb is a Free angent, the Cowboys need to sign him.
He’s playing very well against Andre Johnson.
by beautifultyrant on Jan 15, 2012 1:00 PM CST reply actions
Cowboys will draft an outstanding prospect at 14
so stand pat and take whoever falls to you. Cowboys need an infusion of talent at many positions so trading up for one prospect doesn’t make sense.
In Romo we Trust
Agree stand pat.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
I like the trade down
IF we can still get our guy. Why wouldn’t you trade down four or five spots, still get the guy you want, and maybe pick up a few extra picks? There are studs that will be available later in the first and studs in the later rounds. We also have too many holes to fill to stand pat or trade up.
Right.
DO NOT REACH!
Let’s get some NE value. (Unless who we covet is sitting at #14.)
by StarloverinWNC on Jan 15, 2012 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
I saw somewhere ( I don't remember and now I can't find it) an interesting idea.
It basically said the Cowboys look at things from more of a long term point of view now and proposed an interesting idea. They take Decastro at 14 and then trade back up into the end of the first to take Konz, and have a killer o line for the forseeable future. Use Fa and the rest of the draft to address the D.
Yeah that's an idea I was thinking of too...
I know this team needs bodies to take over a few positions possibly at OLB, and definitely on the DL and in the secondary…but if they get the opportunity to establish an elite OL as soon as next year I’m unsure if I can pass up the offer.
this could the the plan
remember FA is before the draft again, so Dallas will obviously base its draft strategy off what happens in FA, if the can get a top tier o-line they will target Defense and Vice versa
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 15, 2012 3:11 PM CST up reply actions
I'd like to see them active in FA,
Guard (Grubbs or Nicks), Safety (Griffin), DE (Campbell, Avril, or Jones).
I’d then still like them to go BPA in draft and if DeCastro is there pick him. D should predominate, and since ethis draft is better for D, get a corner or 2 in rounds 2 & 3.
Wish you were here and comfortably numb.
I think the defense is okay enough.
Two or three players should be more than enough to put them in the top 10 or so. I think the distance between them and the elite offenses is bigger, though. Beef up the OL, keep Romo healthy, give him time to shred defenses, and open up the holes that allows them to protect first half leads and control the clock with the running game.
I disagree.
The offense outranked the defense in both yardage and scoring for the second year in a row, despite losing Romo for most of last year.
The defense is worse than the offense...no one's saying otherwise.
In today’s NFL you win with elite offenses, I’d rather build an elite offense and a defense that’s merely above average rather than trying to deal with a good offense and a sorta good defense.
3 of the 4 teams still standing are defense heavy.
I include the Giants because their defense was injury plagued most of the year, skewing their stats. They finally got healthy a few weeks ago and in the last four games coming in today they allowed 294.5 yards/game, which, if extrapolated over a regular season, would have ranked 4th this year. They gave up 388 yards today against the elite Packers offense but still won the game with smothering defensive play.
The defense is worse than the offense…no one’s saying otherwise.
Well you said there’s more distance between Dallas and elite offenses than elite defenses, but I’m glad we agree that’s not the case. Despite the above facts though, I’m not saying the Cowboys need to have a better defense than offense. I at least want a competent defense though, particularly when it comes to the secondary. Every team in the playoffs has more talent in the secondary as measured by round drafted and/or Pro Bowls than the Cowboys are projected to have next year (assuming Newman’s departure). Even the Patriots, maybe the worst of the bunch, complement a first round CB who made the Pro Bowl last year with a very high second round safety. The Giants have two first round CBs and a third from the second round. The Cowboys must upgrade through either the draft or FA.
...
Well you said there’s more distance between Dallas and elite offenses than elite defenses, but I’m glad we agree that’s not the case
No it IS the case, Dallas needs more work to get to like a NE or NO offense than they do to get to a Baltimore or Pittsburgh defense. They need about three more OLman and a QB thats on the level of Brees or Brady…that’s a lot more to add than a couple of DLman and a few average CBs. The elite offenses are just worlds better than the elite defenses. NO was probably the best team in the league, just happened to get unlucky and lose to SF…Dallas beat SF, teams beat teams that are better than are all the time and teams lose to lesser teams as well.
So now you're saying Dallas needs a QB too, lol?
By “elite” I didn’t realize you were being so exclusive, especially since you mentioned “top 10” at one point (which the Cowboys barely missed on offense and were in the year before even with Romo out). Regardless, I still disagree. Romo is already a top 4 QB and the receiving corps, when healthy, can be as elite as anyone’s. If Murray can recover and pick up where he left off the Cowboys might be better than offenses like GB’s. We certainly saw their lack of balance exposed today.
“Average” CBs won’t cut it. Pittsburgh and Baltimore have HoF quality safeties. The Cowboys’ starting safeties are a fifth round draft pick and an undrafted free agent. Most of their backups are undrafted free agents. Even the playoff teams with bad defenses have more talent at DB than Dallas does.
That said, I could still support drafting to shore up the O-line if and ONLY if they sign a high quality FA CB.
What are you saying Omar? We need a QB now? I think Romo is as good as Brees or Brady… he just doesn’t have the same supporting cast. I’m watching Brees sit there and drink a six pack while surveying the field, same with Brady… he could have gotten a chair sat back and had his morning coffee in the first half. I don’t think they even touched him. OL is the key and we only need two… Romo is as good as either Brady or Brees… or Rodgers and yes I said it. Everyone keeps talking about clutch … How clutch was Brees in that first half…. NO had 5 turn-overs… How clutch was Brady when he threw 4… or Eli when he threw 4… every one of those Elite QB had the same ROMO moments in big games but they get a walk because why? Brees had 2 ints and “Smith”!! We are talking Alex Smith here, had 3 TDs and no INTs…. Rogers only had 1 Int… and I really don’t blame it on him …. that was a total team break down … I don’t think anyone could hold on to the ball…. as for everyone last week giving TJ Yates the praise … in his starts he’s 2-4 and threw 3 INTs against Baltimore… and Tebow with the 3:16 reference gets guess what? 136 yards on 9 of 36 … I’ll give him his due he was playing against the 31st ranked defense in the country and he didn’t throw more INT’s then Brees or Rodgers did but… come on guys. If you are going to give Romo crap… then Rodgers, Brees, Tebow, and Yates should get that same chokers badge.
RexP
Well said Rex
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 8:51 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Melvin ingram
I’ve been watching tape of him lately and I’m not impressed… Looks like a great athlete playing football(Vernon gholston)…. He comes out of a 4-3 defense and his transition to a 3-4 won’t be smooth…. Also you don’t take a guard at 14…. So decastro is out… You either trade up for kirkpatrick or you take Courtney Upshaw… Upshaw has a better burst, more pass rush moves and is just as athletic as Ingram…. Add that to the fact that he knows the 3-4 and played the strongsidecat Bama….
by drobe86 on Jan 15, 2012 3:32 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Upshaw looks slower than Ingram on tape
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 16, 2012 1:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
If we do go OL on pick 14
Most fans justify taking Decatro at 14 because they see him as possible BPA and they are concerned about keeping Romo upright on the field, but I think it could go a long way toward improving our running game and letting Garrett run his whole offensive package. This team has really struggled in short yardage situations for several years and has not been able to run consistently in a lot of games. The Oline has been unable to impose their will to establish the run, and when you combine this with pass protection issues, it has narrowed Garrett’s ability to call the plays he really wants to run because he’s always working around the limitations of the line. Sturm has frequently made the point about Garrett having to work around the OLine, and I think he is write on the money
Ok
But you can get a solid guard in rounds 3-7… Bill Nagy is gonna be fantastic… Nobody takes a guard at 14… Why start now?
by drobe86 on Jan 15, 2012 3:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I agree with your point....
Just saying that those who want Decastro never seem to mention that he might really help the running game and help expand the playbook, too. I’m for the BPA, and think it is likely if Decastro is as good as so many on this blog are saying, he may well be gone by the time it gets to us. I think I’d like to see what Nagy/Arkin/Kowalski/Costa can do with another year under their belt and Callahan at the controls, if he is BPA and a value pick compared to others, then bring him aboard.
Iupati and Pouncey went in the first rd of the 2010 draft
there goes your contention. I think Iupati went in the top 15.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 8:44 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
One thing we need is for someone already on the roster to pan out. Arkin, Nagy
Kowalski, Carter, Butler, Lissamore, Church, Mario Butler,Geathers, someone. That would be huge!
True...
People act like nobody is gonna get better… Look for Nagy, bruce Carter, victor and Mario butler to take leaps forward… I also kowalski the c….
by drobe86 on Jan 15, 2012 3:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Oh God
Been there done that. When are people in here gonna stop the love for the low round/FA types?
“That Phil Costa kid is gonna be great next year, just watch!”
Let me be the scouting director AND the GM
For those interested in an improved pass rush
Not hearing a lot of names that we would/should draft at 14 for the Dline. Seems like we are hearing more LB candidates for this pick than Dline. I think it’s interesting that so many people have killed Spencer about his lack of sacks and pressure and focus draft and FA plans around a replacement, while there has been little criticism of Coleman/Spears/Hatcher and their nonexistent pressure. I agree with BPA approach and available Dline personnel may not warrant the pick at 14, but why is everyone so down on Spencer but they don’t say boo about the lack of production from the Dline? Keg’s post showed Cowboy pass rush really was pretty good and that Spencer’s contribution was good compared to other #2 rushers. I’m for a playmaker, either DL or LB, because you can never have enough playmakers, but I don’ t understand all the abuse on Spencer but no mention of the weak play of our ends.
That's because the only guy with the real potential to be an elite 3-4 DE taken early on is Quinton Coples.
That just goes to show how rare it is to find guys capable of being truly dominant at that 5-technique position.
Some believe Devon Still may have that capability, but I certainly don’t. He will be a decent starter for a 4-3 team, but I don’t think he has the quickness to be anything other than another Spears.
The fact is that I would love to replace Spears/Coleman just like I would love to replace Spencer. However, it’s much harder to find elite DEs in the 3-4 than OLBs. If you think it is hard to find decently tall players that weigh 260 lbs and can run well, just try to find guys that are 6’5" or taller, weigh upwards of 275 lbs., and have incredible quickness. Ultimately, it’s just not as easy to upgrade at 3-4 DE significantly as it is to upgrade Spencer’s meager six sacks (which was matched by almost 5 OLBs in last year’s draft). The best hope for us is still for Calais Campbell to hit FA somehow.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
How about Brockers?
LSU defensive tackle Michael Brockers late declaration apparently increases the Cowboys’ options. Draftniks went bonkers on Brockers, whom many expected to return to school. ESPN’s Todd McShay called him the ‘’most underrated’’ d-line prospect:
Good catch. I keep forgetting him.
He is an interesting case to me. Scouts seem really high on him and I can see why physically, but it does worry me that he only had 2 sacks and 10 TFLs. Perhaps part of that can be attributed to LSU’s line rotation. You do have to like a 6’6" guy with some burst though.
He will likely be in the conversation at #14 if he looks as good as people think he will at the combine. I definitely prefer his potential to that of Still’s.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
Coples is 6'6 with burst
I think it’s telling that Brockers said he was aware that prior to declaring for the draft NFL scouts told him he wasn’t a lock for the first round, and Les Miles even said that while he supports his decision, he thinks Brockers could’ve helped his draft stock by staying another year at LSU.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
I agree. Brockers worries me a bit.
For all the concerns about his motor, I think I like Coples better because I thought he looked great when UNC would slide him to DT.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Creasy729 on Jan 15, 2012 10:45 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
As of 2010, I think Coples did make that switch to DT
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 16, 2012 1:32 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The Dline players are tougher to find in a 3-4
… but that doesn’t mean we should ignore discussing the play of the guys we have now as a weakness and keep piling on Spencer. I really don’t see Spencer as being that bad. I think there are other areas on the defense that are in far greater need of an upgrade, and that the bigger issue with Spencer is what it would cost to keep him if the Boys are interested. Whether the fans like it or not, I think the Cowboys would be interested in having him back, but probably only at the right price, and it is likely that price will be less than what he would get elsewhere. Comparing him to LY’s FA’s, he is more likely to go (like Bowen), than to stay (like Spears).
Well I don't think it should be that threads about Spencer
Only concern him. I think it’s pretty well understood around here how bad at pass rushing Spears and Coleman are.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Creasy729 on Jan 15, 2012 10:47 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
And of course neither Coleman nor Spears are free agents
So of course Spencer will be discussed more.
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Creasy729 on Jan 15, 2012 10:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Unless someone wants to take Spears off our hands we're stuck with him.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
*should be a surprise
If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.
by Creasy729 on Jan 15, 2012 11:03 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
but I don’ t understand all the abuse on Spencer but no mention of the weak play of our ends.
BINGO
by Jonathan Stern on Jan 15, 2012 8:16 PM CST up reply actions
Carter to OLB in place of Spencer ?
Spencer will cost a lot. His PFF score is pretty good, but we know better!
There are no affordable OLB or DE.
There are a few “affordable” ILB in FA (Lofton, Tulloch, DJackson).
How do I explain, but Carter “moves” like a OLB, not ILB to me.
well he did play as a 4-3 olb
Which if I am not mistaken is similar in Responsibities to a SOLB in a 3-4
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 15, 2012 5:33 PM CST up reply actions
Too small for OLB
Butler would need to add 10 to 20 lbs to play OLB. I like the idea of Carter and Lee for years to come.
by jtgreet02 on Jan 15, 2012 5:44 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Safety is much harder to fill .... so Barron makes sense?
There are no FA safeties as good as Barron in the draft.
Griffin and Landry don’t score better than Sensabaugh. Although that’s better then Elam, it’s not worth the $6-7M it will cost to hire them.
If not, then CB all the way for me. I can’t pay $9M for Finnegan or Grimes or even Rogers. If Webb was an UFA, then yes. Tim Jennings (Bears) maybe an affordable option at CB. But even if we get him, I’d trade a 4th to move up in the 2nd round and get the best CB that falls.
Barron is borderline firs or second round pick
according to NFL Draft Scout. Wes Bunting isn’t really high on him. Basically said Barron would be a really good special teams player, but outside of that, not really impressed.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 15, 2012 8:47 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Think bama
Upshaw, Kirkpatrick, or Barron are all solid choices at pick 14… They’re already pro ready… You don’t take a guard at 14 idk how good he is….
by drobe86 on Jan 15, 2012 6:22 PM CST via mobile reply actions
As of right now
it looks like SF Bal and NYG in the conf. Championships with Brady as the lone gunslinger left. Three defenses that can really get after it. In spite of all the hype defense is what wins championships.
Hell and Horse Manure.....HIT SOMEONE
Look
Yes we want a great line. but the #1 rule of sports for me is DEFENSE wins championships. I’ll take a G and C in the 3rd, 4th, or 5th round. build the D 1st.
you are right but you have to let the draft come to you.
I hate taking guards and centers high, I really do. But if DeCastro and Konz are there you just take them assuming there are no health concerns. Personally I hope thery are taken before the Cowboys select. But I just know that we will come to regret passing them up if they are there.
Some people on this board just want to build up the line to fill a need I am certainly not with them at all.
However Draft is the time to get stars. And it is rare you get stars with no downside.
What you don’t want are busts and Jags.
The draft is about getting what is there not what you wish was there.
by Jonathan Stern on Jan 15, 2012 8:15 PM CST up reply actions
Agree on this
Totally agree on taking interior OL this high only if they are BPA. Would prefer Dline/CB, but your last line says it all:
The draft is about getting what is there not what you wish was there.
The draft is a long ways off, and FA will happen first, but there’s an awful lot of wishful thinking on this blog about guys being taken at certain places in the draft that make sense only if you are drafting to fill a position, which I think is a mistake.
You don't think we could get him in the z2nd? I think 14th is too high considering his character concerns
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
he'll be a first rounder
he kept his nose clean last year and dominated lesser competition. Seems committed to being a good player.
Sean Lissemore = The next Bruce Smith
His interview process will determine if he gets taken in the first round.
1) He needs town the fact he screwed up. He can’t come off trying to make excuses.
2) He can’t get denfensive when teams ask him about the situation, and he needs to be truthful about what happened.
3) He needs to be remorsefull.
4) He needs to act humble and thankful for the opportunity to still play football.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 16, 2012 1:36 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The kid is already
on record publicly with all of those things. He is not Cliff Harris of Oregon. There are random drug tests at the Senior Bowl and the Combine. If he’s clean, then he’s clean. If he’s not, you don’t take him. But make no mistake. If he’s clean, he’s going in the 1st round. Bet on it.
All the kids at the combine know they will be drug tested.
Anyone who fails is a huge red flag there.
OCC A question if you have then time.....Free wheeling Trades ?
Since at the time of last years draft, the rookie wage scale was not finalized, do you think that there will be alot more movement in the top ten (more trades) or since the value of those picks have gone up (with less financial risk) there will be less or no top ten trades ?
He who laughs last, thinks slowest
"Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name"
"Really love your peaches, want to shake your tree"
Actually, I think there could be more trades in the top ten than previously, simply because the top ten picks carry less of a financial risk now. Cam Newton got a 4-year, 22 million deal as the top pick last year. That’s just a little more than Scandricks’s 6-year, 28 million deal.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jan 16, 2012 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
how do you think the Value has been affected OCC
I would think that the “value” of the top picks would be increased also do to the lessened financial risk….
I would guess ~a 10% increase in the “points value” of all the picks would be a good estimation….
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 16, 2012 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
On April 21, 1989, the Cowboys signed Troy Aikman, to a six-year, $11.2 million contract. At the time, it was the largest contract ever for a rookie in the NFL. The current draft value chart originates from that same period. Since then, it has held up through free agency, skyrocketing salaries and various CBAs.
I think I’ll stick to the current chart until there is evidence that the teams value picks differently.
by One.Cool.Customer on Jan 16, 2012 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
Why can't the owners get together and just say NO MORE!
The salaries are absolutely ridiculous and we as fans have to pay for it. These guys are refusing offers of five million dollars or more per year because it’s not enough. Tell them no. Let them go find a job somewhere else that pays them that well. Most of us work 40 hour weeks for 50 years and don’t even make one million. If the owners would all stand strong, it would work. Ten years from now, the seats will be empty unless they offer payment books for your ticket prices.
"Potential is nothing...Performance is everything". Bill Parcells
"If you are prepared, you will be confident, and will do the job." Tom Landry
"The difference between extraordinary and ordinary, is that little extra". Jimmy Johnson
haha so i guess that whole "owner"
thing doesn’t mean anything.. I didn’t know the players could sign their own checks.. Get outta here with that b.s.. The salaries are ridiculous cause the owners let that situation get out of hand in the 1st place its not the players fault.. Besides the fans go to see the players, no? So ask yourself who really is bringing in the revenue?
Before evil goodell came in & softened the game up these guys sacrificed their bodies while u could lounge on your sofa on a nice sun afternoon.. I have no problem with the amount these guys make besides its not even all guaranteed like it is in baseball or hoops.. If u were put in the same position as a football player & given the opportunity would u not try to earn as much as u possibly could knowing that the avg life span in the NFL is what 7 yrs? I doubt you’d turn down a few extra million, no sane person would anyways.
Obviously money is there to be made so if its not in the player’s hands where does it go to? Not in the fans pockets that’s for sure.
"Some people wear Superman pajamas, Superman wears Chuck Norris pajamas. But Chuck Norris wears Sean Lee pajamas. That is all." --sirjason22
"I'm gonna punch you in the ovary, that's what I'm gonna do. A straight shot. Right to the babymaker." --Ron Burgundy
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