Athlete characterization - 1st step in the NFL draft

by Tyrone Jenkins on Jan 15, 2012 8:41 PM CST

There are lots of prospects aspiring to become NFL players. Over 350 at least. And of the 220-250 draft picks each year (not counting undrafted free agents) that are picked, less than 100 go on to become prominent starters in the NFL. Even less than that are deemed elite - or for lack of a better description, distinctively better than everyone else at their position.

As a youth sports coach, I'm often asked questions from parents or other coaches about what makes an athlete special or stand out from other athletes and/or what specific skills should their son/daughter possess to become special. I'm told that my answer usually surprises most people; it's not shooting the basketball better or throwing a tighter spiral or anything of the sort. In fact it has more to do with the athlete specifically. In my 20 years of coaching, I've found what sets some athletes apart from others is their frame of mind and their mentality.

Elite athletes have a special viewpoint toward their sport and life in general as they all seem to understand their craft to a deeper level than everyone else. Of course, all athletes possess skill. This skill is displayed in various forms and with differing degrees of mastery so I'm not saying elite athletes aren't skilled. So believe me, regardless of the sport, skill is always necessary, especially at the pro level. But that skill isn't the most important aspect that makes them special. In fact, it's a small portion of it. Most people can actually remember the first time they threw a baseball and the fact that they could do so with relatively decent accuracy after about 1/2 a day of practice. The ability to throw a baseball is relatively easy to learn and practice. There are many pitchers in professional baseball but few that can do so well. Those that can all seem to possess an understanding of how to throw a baseball to a specific spot or in a way no one else can duplicate. And often you find that particular thrower possesses an understanding of the sport of baseball and all its nuances to a greater degree than everyone else.

It seems as if the experts all agree Andrew Luck is shoe-in for eliteness. He'll be picked 1st overall. But I'm curious if there are other prospects who might possess that other level ability and understanding. And, is it always a QB that we think of whenever we talk about elite? So with that, my question to BTB is who besides him do you feel could possibly be an elite player, be selected for multiple pro bowls, lead his team to a Superbowl appearance and quite possibly be one of the best to ever play the game at his position?

Poll

Who, besides Andrew Luck, is most likely to be an elite NFL player?

Morris Claiborne

19 votes

Matt Kalil

18 votes

Luke Kuechly

3 votes

Dave DeCastro

42 votes

Trent Richardson

13 votes

Justin Blackmon

31 votes

Robert Griffin III

20 votes

Dre Kirkpatrick

9 votes

Devon Still

1 votes

Kellen Moore

30 votes

186 votes | Poll has closed

Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.

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Read More: 2011 nfl draft, Dallas Cowboys

Comments

Dre Kirk RG3 & Trent Richardson

by matt575 on Jan 15, 2012 8:52 PM CST via mobile reply actions

kellen Moore..

They really dog this guy because of his height ,arm strength and zip… but they would all agree he would be a top 10 prospect if he was a few inches taller..

I think his approach to the game and his understanding of being a qb put him high on my board..

by lostar2009 on Jan 15, 2012 9:51 PM CST via mobile reply actions

I gotta go Kellen Moore as well. I'm a 5th generation Texan who currently resides in Boise and I go to the games up here.

I don’t know how things will turn out honestly. Here’s the bad…

- He can throw a deep ball as far as anyone else but he has to wind up for it whereas Drew Brees, for example, can just snap it out there. There’s a big difference in release time and how much telegraphing the safety gets.

- I’m not sure he can put enough zip on the ball to throw the 10 yard out pattern, a staple of many timing based passing attacks, before NFL CB’s can cut in front and pick it. That’s not to say he has no zip at all but I suspect it fades fast the further away from him his target is.

Here’s the good…

- Looks his receivers open. This characteristic could help mitigate a lack of elite zip on the ball. One of our defensive backs once said he saw Kellen Moore look the entire defense off to his left and then throw to a wide open WR on the right…while still looking the safety on the left IN THE EYES. That’s sick, I don’t care who you are.

- Ridiculously deep understanding of how defenses work, can process information wicked fast (both presnap and during play), QB coach level understanding leads to higher gains from film study than most, crunches film like Peyton, genuine love for all aspects of the game, most prepared player on the field…all the time…bar none

- Impervious to pressure, maintains calm in the huddle regardless of circumstances, transmits this calm to rest of team. This has been stated multiple times by several teammates.

- Humble nature, high character, quiet homebody who won’t get in trouble, deflects praise to teammates, deflects criticism from teammates, team oriented outlook.

Maybe I’m biased some but I gotta say, I have been complimented multiple times on my objectivity and ability to critique my own favorite teams, and I’m telling you guys this dude looks like the second coming of Joe Montana. Joe was taller but he too was known to have a ‘weak’ arm. Time will tell, I think the arm strength factor is the biggest make or break on Moore but he has got everything else in spades.

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Jan 15, 2012 10:47 PM CST reply actions

i agree...

But do you think if he would sit for a few years to work on a few mechanics ( besides his throwing motion which may be too much to change) and beef up in a great training program… Do you think he has a realistic shot at starting down the road ???

by lostar2009 on Jan 16, 2012 4:42 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

I can't really say.

The knock on Thomas is twofold.
1) His mechanics are poor but that’s been seen before. The issue is that after years of muscle memory, it is said that you can improve bad mechanics at the pro-level, even significantly, but their throwing motion is their throwing motion.
2) He simply has not either had enough opportunity or flat doesn’t have the ability to truly break a defense down and make the split second reads and decisions an NFL dropback passer needs to.

This second one is probably the one that makes him a big risk. The Combine may help to solve it but at the end of the day you either understand defenses (football smart) or you don’t and there’s not a whole lot of in between. This is the #1 area ‘athletic’ QB’s fail in; they cannot grasp what they see on film, they aren’t used to winning in the film room through preparation, and they cannot break defenses down quick enough to understand that their #1 WR is going to be covered and their #2 WR is going to be jammed because the defense is playing Cover 3 Zone Dog Blitz but the TE will be wide open over the middle in the 2-5 seconds an NFL QB has to decipher all of that.

Now, on DT’s behalf, this is a good kid fellas. He’s from Houston and word is he is already done with his Bachelor’s and well into his Master’s if not complete with it as well. Oregon students report seeing him in the school library a lot. I’ve never heard any trouble from him, he doesn’t beat his chest a lot. He looks like a smart young man with good strong character and when you have those two things you ALWAYS have a shot.

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Jan 16, 2012 10:37 AM CST up reply actions

I disagree that a QB's throwing motion cannot be changed

Rodgers, Brees and Romo have all gone from a windup motion with a sidearm to 3/4 release point to a straght back arm cock with an high elbow over the top throwing motion since leaving college. A QB can change, it is more of a matter if they want to put the time and work into changing.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

How do you want to be rememberd. Go out there and play every play like it is your last play. Be remembered as the person you want to be for the rest of your life. Spike Dykes, Midland Lee and Texas Tech Coach.

by Birddog26 on Jan 16, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions

Maybe, it's just something I had heard or seen in a analysis article or show. So that tells me there is at least some controversy on the issue.

Additionally, I am not certain what all was entailed in the phrase “throwing mechancics” when it was used to describe Thomas’ issues. That could have also included accuracy or just been about his throwing motion. Bernie Kosar had a prety good career as a sidearm thrower so it’s not neccessarily a make or break.

Regardless, Darron Thomas is a QB with a skillset better suited to freelance and improvisation as opposed to reading the defense and delivering a pass from the pocket while moving around pocket to avoid pressure. His accuracy is also not up to specs.

I wouldn’t risk a draft pick on him unless it was very late in the draft and I had no one else on my board that compared.

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Jan 16, 2012 1:13 PM CST up reply actions

Thomas's accuracy is to bad at about 61% completion rate

His big downside is he comes from a spread option offense and may not translate well into the NFL. He is a late round pick who could be converted to a wide reciever in the NFL which would work better with his athletic ability. As a QB he would be a 3 year project. The downside of developing him at QB is that you probably end up with Stephen McGee type QB after 3 years.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

by Birddog26 on Jan 16, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions

I meant "not to bad" on accuracy

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

by Birddog26 on Jan 16, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions

It is too bad from all reports I have seen and the games I have watched.

Don’t take that 61% at face value. That’s 61% with a defense putting a minimum of 8 in the box to stop the run, leaving huge gaps of open field for receivers to exploit and Thomas to wing something in their vicinity.

When a defense shuts their run game down with the front seven, Thomas does not have the pinpoint accuracy to consistently hit WR’s that are covered more like they would be in the NFL. He also doesn’t have the ability to read a defense fast enough to throw to the right receiver on a consistent basis.

Also, and I can’t say I know this, but I have seen it written that he doesn’t possess the raw athleticism to convert to another position like WR. I dunno, dude’s fast, but maybe he’s not fluid enough or can’t cut on a dime.

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Jan 16, 2012 5:49 PM CST up reply actions

Thomas has good athletic ability

On an NFL level you are probably looking at a little smaller version of Tebow right now. Not sure he would ever develop into an NFL QB but he could transition to a WR.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

by Birddog26 on Jan 16, 2012 6:36 PM CST up reply actions

do you think that is why those guys fell in the draft??? bc of their throwing motions???

by lostar2009 on Jan 16, 2012 3:08 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

Yes,

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

by Birddog26 on Jan 16, 2012 6:37 PM CST up reply actions

i was talking about Moore.. we are on Moore or Thomas???

Which one do you prefer???

by lostar2009 on Jan 16, 2012 3:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

I prefer Moore over Thomas, hands down.

I think they both are high character guys that present different sets of risks. Of those risks, I believe Moore forecasts much much better to a successful starting NFL QB than Thomas does.

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Jan 16, 2012 5:51 PM CST up reply actions

I think Moore would need to sit a season

But has a good shot at being a starter in the NFL after a year or two of work.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

by Birddog26 on Jan 16, 2012 6:38 PM CST up reply actions

That's my thought as well. His limit won't be mental, it'll be physical imo

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Jan 16, 2012 7:15 PM CST up reply actions

would you consider him a good fit for Dallas???

This guy seem like a rkg… i hope dallas put a flyer on this guy maybe the 3rd round?? Romo replacement.. l

I think Dallas need to look at qbs hard this year.i do not think McGee is the answer and Romo has what 2-3 years left on a contract in which he will almost be in his mid 30’ s..

I hope JJ do not fool himself and think Romo can play forever or their is no one out there better than Romo.. thats the same mess he pulled with Aikman and we was stuck with no replacements. Post Troy until Romo came was ugly.

by lostar2009 on Jan 16, 2012 8:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

I think Moore will probably be a 6th round pick

He would be a good QB for Dallas to develop. If I were to draft him I would pickup a veteran QB on 1 year deal and spend the next year working with Moore and developing him.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

by Birddog26 on Jan 17, 2012 1:55 AM CST up reply actions

+1000

RexP

by Rex Pfister on Jan 17, 2012 6:56 PM CST up reply actions

I agree

Unless he shoots up the draftboards post combine Moore is expected to be a very late round pick. If we don’t intend to pick a QB in the first 3 rounds, I would wait for wherever my scouting department placed Moore and grab him. Between rounds 5-7 I think he represents a tremendous potential-to-cost ratio.

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Jan 17, 2012 7:06 PM CST up reply actions

Tell you what

I’ll add Kellen and see if he gets any votes (yeah, I know it’s a few days late but he just may make up some ground).

by Tyrone Jenkins on Jan 16, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions

For those who like stats, here's a recent comment I made contrasting BSU's Kellen Moore to Oregon's Darron Thomas

Darron Thomas might become UDFA, he’s that bad. I think I already mentioned this to you in a later comment Rena but wanted to post here as well.

Seriously folks, if you’re interested in DT you need to take a hard look at Oregon highlights on youtube or something. Now check this out; Oregon, while utilizing Chip Kelley’s Blurball offense has NEVER beaten a top tier run defense losing twice to Boise St. and once to tOSU, Auburn, and LSU.

Here’s why: That offense is conducive to ‘athletic’ dual-threat QB’s who can run….these athletes can normally run better than they can throw. The entire offense is predicated on the threat of the run, sucking the defense twds the LoS, then running playaction and allowing the QB to roll out and hit a fairly wide open WR streaking across or down the field.

Now watch some highlights of Oregon getting beat. What you will notice is that while they can use the run to open up the pass, they cannot use the pass to open up the run. This is because DT is not accurate or able to read a defense well enough to pinpoint strikes, he can just wing it to relatively open, single covered guys. When a D can ctrl Oregon’s run game with the front seven and leave the back 4 or more to defend the pass properly, Oregon doesn’t just slow down, they completely farging implode.

Now, compare DT’s above posted stats to this mystery QB (an * = Known School Record, a ** = Known NCAA Record)…

……………………….Darron Thomas……………………….QB X
2011 Comps:……………211………………………………….326
2011 Attempts:…………339…………………………………..439
2011 Cmp :……………..62.2…………………………………74.3% *

……………………….Darron Thomas………………………QB X
2011 Pass YDS:……..2, 761……………………………..3,800
2011 TD’s:……………..33 *…………………………………43 *
2011 Int’s:………………07…………………………………..09
2011 QB Rating:……..158.7……………………………..169.15

……………………….Darron Thomas……………………….QB X
Career Comps:…………449………………………………..1,157
Career Attempts:………733………………………………..1,658
Career Cmp :…………..61.26………………………………69.78%

………………………..Darron Thomas……………………….QB X
Career Pass Yds:……..5,910…………………………….14,667 *
Career TD’s:……………..66 *………………………………142 *
Career INT’s:…………….17…………………………………28
Career QB Rating:……150.1……………………………..169.15

………………………..Darron Thomas……………………….QB X
Career Record:……………23-3………………………………50-3 **

QB X is Boise State’s Kellen Moore. He gets knocked for his competition but I’d argue that A) Thomas’s competition was not substantially better in all actuality. Washington St. may rank much higher than Wyoming but both should be beaten equally as bad. Oregon didn’t carry the OOC strength that BSU did either. B) Moore’s stats either stayed relatively even or IMPROVED against his toughest competition…competition that included Oregon, VT, and Georgia all of them eventual conference champions those years.

Someone is likely to draft DT but it will be a mistake imo. Moore ran a much more pro-set type offense and has a far better pro skillset imo.

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Jan 16, 2012 12:40 AM CST reply actions

Darron Thomas said he's staying at Oregon

"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."

by Rohpuri on Jan 16, 2012 1:08 AM CST up reply actions

I stand corrected

"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."

by Rohpuri on Jan 16, 2012 1:24 AM CST up reply actions

honestly, I don't think either of them will pan out as NFL QBs

so it’s a moot point really

by somebodyquiet on Jan 16, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions

that may be

I Wall of Text like it's the in thing to do
"...and just things really starting to unravel now for Utah..." Herbie, BSU vs. Utah, 22 Dec 2010

by pjohn56 on Jan 16, 2012 5:52 PM CST up reply actions

Trent Richardson reminds me of a more polished version of Tiki Barber

Whoever gets him, will not regret it.

"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."

by Rohpuri on Jan 16, 2012 1:09 AM CST reply actions

KELLEN MOORE

As far as the intangibles go this guy has them all… Smart: Intelligent, knows the game and is studious… Character: Upholds the high standards you and I would look up to or would like our children to look up to… Skill: Excellent passer… everyone talks about skill and who he and Boise State played as stated above he did face a number of teams that not only won their conferences but went on to play in BCS bowl games. The think that I’m talking about is this… Who does Boise State get to recruit… 5star – 4star High School Athletes? NO! They did this all with 3 star or below athletes… the Coach for Boise State should get a medal. You look at this years top schools… what is their talent pool? Boise State was a top 5 college football team … every year Kellen Moore was the QB, yet did they ever have a top 25 recruiting class. These 3star athletes went out and beat teams that did have top 10 recruiting classes and teams like LSU and Alabama refused to play Boise State in 2010 and 2011. Boise State has had an open invitation to any top program and very few takers.

RexP

by Rex Pfister on Jan 16, 2012 5:54 AM CST reply actions