Scouts View: NCAA Drug Testing

by Birddog26 on Jan 17, 2012 8:12 PM CST

With the recent debate with Dre Kirkpatrick I am prompted to write this about NCAA drug testing. I focused this on just the NCAA policy and the holes. But there is a much bigger problem with the local football programs, campus police who are more concerned with student athletes and the reputation of the College than the law.

As we get into the draft season we are faced with more and more drug problems with prospects coming out. After the Combine some more will come to light, but this info comes out a few days before the draft. Many fans wonder why these failed drug tests come out right before the draft and look for a conspiracy. First off, the teams are informed of results right after the Combine along with medical tests, Wonderlic scores and other info. The news is leaked for fan and media purposes only.

Now when we talk about the NCAA drug testing policy it sounds very impressive. But dig under the top and you find gaping holes. Preseason and during the season players are tested for Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDS) along with masking agents and not controlled substances. The responsibility for testing for controlled substances are put on the individual Colleges and Universities. The NCAA does not test until post season for controlled substances until the post season and that is using the local College/University personnel with an NCAA observer.

Now some local Colleges and Universities take the drug testing very serious while others have gaping holes in testing, enforcement and discipline. Most try and enter their NFL career and believe testing and enforcement is the same as in college. They do not think it is real just like what they found in College.

[Addendum: Part of scouting is talking with campus police. I will say that some are very up front and honest. Others feel like dealing with the CIA. It comes down to who they are really responsible to. The students or some athletes on a team. I will say some of the best to deal with have been Stanford and the worst have been Florida Colleges and University of Alabama to deal with. Penn State you cannot even get on campus. Full disclosure: I attended University of Central Florida.]

I for one would like to see a complete revolution in College Football to enact NFL procedures

Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.

Tweet Comment 27 comments | 7 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Really wish you had expanded on the campus police thing.

Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos

by Tom Ryle on Jan 17, 2012 8:20 PM CST reply actions

As an semi/extreme view, take a look at Penn State campus police

Part of scouting is talking with campus police. I will say that some are very up front and honest. Others feel like dealing with the CIA. It comes down to who they are really responsible to. The students or some athletes on a team. I will say some of the best to deal with have been Stanford and the worst have been Florida Colleges and University of Alabama to deal with. Penn State you cannot even get on campus.

ps: As disclosue, I attended University of Central Florida.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

How do you want to be rememberd. Go out there and play every play like it is your last play. Be remembered as the person you want to be for the rest of your life. Spike Dykes, Midland Lee and Texas Tech Coach.

by Birddog26 on Jan 17, 2012 8:29 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs

I can't remember if you can go back and edit a fanpost the way we can front page articles

but that would be some good stuff to put in your main post.

I love the glimpses into the scouting world. Do some players wind up being seen as more of a risk when they go to schools with the mentality of PSU and ’bama?

Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos

by Tom Ryle on Jan 17, 2012 8:38 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah you can edit its on the bottom left I think.

"Obviously, I felt like if I ran into my lineman there it was going to help the play" ~Tony Romo

by thebigham on Jan 18, 2012 6:39 AM CST up reply actions

I am going to touch on this more in another post where I talk about working with Colloges, coaching staffs and gathering information on draft prospects

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

by Birddog26 on Jan 18, 2012 3:06 PM CST up reply actions

As always

Love the “inside” knowledge. Keep it up

"Obviously, I felt like if I ran into my lineman there it was going to help the play" ~Tony Romo

by thebigham on Jan 18, 2012 6:39 AM CST reply actions

Thanks bigham

I had mentioned in a thread on one of Tom’s posts that I wanted to do a series of threads on scouting and figured this would be a good place to start.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

by Birddog26 on Jan 18, 2012 3:05 PM CST up reply actions

Oh yeah, and we were all waiting patiently for it!

"Obviously, I felt like if I ran into my lineman there it was going to help the play" ~Tony Romo

by thebigham on Jan 18, 2012 3:51 PM CST up reply actions

Yup.

I smell something... It smells like... hope. And BBQ.

by BlueNSilverBlood on Jan 18, 2012 8:40 PM CST up reply actions

Thanks for the knowledge

it is pretty strange the that NCAA does not regulate the testing for controlled substances during the season, i did not know that.

He who laughs last, thinks slowest
"Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name"
"Really love your peaches, want to shake your tree"

by BigBad Joe on Jan 18, 2012 9:21 AM CST reply actions

Strange is a good word for it.

I smell something... It smells like... hope. And BBQ.

by BlueNSilverBlood on Jan 18, 2012 9:18 PM CST up reply actions

Everything the NCAA does is strange

Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/

I would love to show you the finer points to a muay thai clinch whipped knee to the face seanrude
by matt575 on Nov 22, 2011 3:09 AM EST

by Seanrude on Jan 20, 2012 8:57 AM CST up reply actions

Always look forward to your post Birddog

always an interesting perspective on things. Hope you have time to write more now that your season is in full swing.

"There are no traffic jams along the extra mile." ~ Roger Staubach

by TK19 on Jan 18, 2012 9:33 AM CST reply actions

Nice post. From the athlete's perspective...

I attended The Ohio State University. I did not play football, but as a Varsity athlete I was tested several times a year.

There was nothing worse than having some dude staring at your penis while you were trying to void into a little container. It may have just been me, but I found it incredibly difficult to unrinate on command when someone was staring at your genitals.

I remember having to urinate into a small jar after practice one day. I was dehydrated and not able to go for over an hour. I must have drank a gallon of water during that hour. That guy had to stay there the whole time.

My tuition fees at work.

At Ohio State, athletes had a biannual meeting to discuss NCAA violations and drug enforcement policies and procedures. The university had an amazing support system that would help athletes understand what medications would lead to a positive drug test, what actions could lead to suspensions/expulsions, and what constituted a NCAA rules infraction.

When I started competing at a national and international level, drug enforcement procedures became very complicated. Most of that was a result of the policies created and enforced by the International Olympic Committee. In order to avoid testing positive for Performance Enhancing Drugs (PED’s), I needed to consult my personal physician and cross-reference it with the US Olympic Committee.

I am surprised that more young NFL prospects do not get caught for PED’s becuse of unsupervised prescription medication usage. Seriously, how many healthy, athletic 20 year old guys have a personal care physician that they can turn to for advise on false positives for PED’s?

As far as getting caught for recreational drug usage: that is as stupid as getting tatoos for free, driving cars that you can not afford, and accepting gifts from boosters…then stating that you were unaware that those were violations.

by ScarletO on Jan 18, 2012 1:13 PM CST reply actions

Ohio State has a very testing program there

Ray Pagonis oversees the testing there as well as being the physician for the athletic department. He is also a good reference for student athletes.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

by Birddog26 on Jan 18, 2012 1:50 PM CST up reply actions

Thanks,

I just wrote a bunch of thoughts, previewed my comment, clicked on the preview and pushed backspace; it pushes the back button on your browser. I’m going to try to write this again.
As I understand it HGH is non-testable in elite athletes 2-3 days after it is taken. The chances of being caught even for PEDs is relatively low. I understand the schools perspective. Coaches and student-athletes form strong bonds at every level of competition. It is also best to deal with things in-house when possible. Plus, large-scale drug testing programs are pretty expensive.
But on the student-athletes side… A student-athlete read some recent numbers to me today, and they were pretty staggering. College sports is now a $6 Bil a year enterprise, If I remember correctly. The new TV rights contract for ONLY the Men’s NCAA tourney is something like $120 Mil a year. Those numbers may not be exact, I was working while this youngster was reading us the article, but either way the numbers were very high. I remember when I was that young and idealistic, it would have been a slap in my face to help make the school that much money and not be able to get a tattoo. Any middle class American will tell you it is extrememly difficult to work, go to school and have enough time and energy left to maintain a healthy work-life balance.
Why is there a need to regulate non-behavioral, purely monetary violations, though? West Point and other service schools are a good example of an institution providing an education, room and board in exchange for a commitment. In the case of a State University, the student would be committed only to maintaining grades, media and team activities. The school would have a greater financial responsibility and student-athletes could be held to a financial commitment, maybe it would increase accountability.
I will even take it one step further and say that a student-athlete has legitimate potential to move on to professional sports, the good NCAA should provide room, board, travel to an APPROPRIATE fitness facility and things like physical and massage therapy. $6 Bil a year is a lot of money. Cough it up, uncle NCAA.
From what I read, Post-2nd-Collapse Greece spent money in congress passing a law that protects pedophiles as handicapped people. In my opinion, if it is proven that the PSU staff had knowledge that Mr. Sandusky was showering with children, every employee associated with the football program, including the athletic director, should be fired. It is sad that we have to regulate these things, and I love my privacy, but most schools are state and federally affiliated. I don’t want my kid growing up worshiping a drug addict or pedophile. Programs that have zero transparency are actually a little inappropriate, in my opinion.
Can you guys explain to me what a binder is as it relates to student-athletes and finances?

My tuition fees at work.

Priceless.

I smell something... It smells like... hope. And BBQ.

by BlueNSilverBlood on Jan 18, 2012 10:37 PM CST up reply actions

Stipend, not binder...

I smell something... It smells like... hope. And BBQ.

by BlueNSilverBlood on Jan 19, 2012 6:58 AM CST up reply actions

A stipend is an annual allowance for student athletes to help cover incidental expenses

These incidentals are things like toothbrush, tooth paste, deoderant, toilet paper and things like that. For not only athletes but students in general, this is an out of pocket expense of $3000 to $4000 a year. When you look at many athletes come from families that live below the poverty level, this is a huge expense every year. The NCAA has prposed to give some student athletes $2000 annual to offset these expenses. There is a lot of contraversy surronding this with colleges saying this will go against the principaples of amatuer athletics.

Now if you are not an athlete, there are many opportunity funds, fellowships and other programs that pay upwards to $20k a year in stipends for students.

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

by Birddog26 on Jan 19, 2012 12:41 PM CST up reply actions

Hhhhhmmmm,

I would not have a problem with it personally, as long as the amount was level across all schools and players. Families spend incredible amounts in childhood sports, getting their children ready for a shot at a scholarship. If the student-athlete earns a scholarship based on grades and skill, I say more power to them. There are a lot of Americans that receive federal school funds that spend their disposable income much less nobly.
I know when you are young and broke you can do things out of necessity that you would probably not do otherwise. Giving legit student-athletes enough funds to meet basic human needs, and transportation around campus would not be a terrible thing. Maybe even make it something like WIC or a prepaid debit card that only works for certain things…
I know at most universities athletics pay for many other programs, bring down total costs for all students and pay professors’ salaries. These things in turn again raise revenue and prestige. If the NCAA does not want to kick something down to athletes, I believe they should not be allowed to profit like this. Every fan bears the weight of the initial expense. Kind of hypocritical IMO.
Thanks for the explanation.

I smell something... It smells like... hope. And BBQ.

by BlueNSilverBlood on Jan 19, 2012 3:52 PM CST up reply actions

Here

is a link I found by Dana O’neil published in OCT ’11

What is the star now? A fallen piece of hardened plastic? The heaviest franchise in American sport? A false idol adored by many millions? The epitome of all that can be achieved with hard work? All that can be lost with too strong a sense of entitlement? A welcome coping mechanism, distracting from the real negativity on Earth? A bonding and separating agent?

by BlueNSilverBlood on Jan 19, 2012 5:01 PM CST up reply actions

if you do that, try hitting the forward button it should come back

Ive done it many times.

"Obviously, I felt like if I ran into my lineman there it was going to help the play" ~Tony Romo

by thebigham on Jan 19, 2012 7:10 AM CST up reply actions

Only what was written after the block quote came back.

Thanks, though, Ham.

I smell something... It smells like... hope. And BBQ.

by BlueNSilverBlood on Jan 19, 2012 7:18 AM CST up reply actions

The latest college sports revenue numbers I have are for 2009

Total revenue for all college sports was $11.8 billion

You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four. Dan Birdwell. Oakland Raiders

by Birddog26 on Jan 19, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions

I see a few things on the web...

Reuters has this article about a long TV rights deal between the NCAA and ESPN worth $500 mil for rights to 24 sports’ championship events.
Here is a USA Today story reporting a Turner/CBS/NCAA agreement for men’s Div I tourney only @ $771 Mil a year for fourteen years.
However, this article from NCAA.org has the NCAA’s total revenue around $771 Million for 2009-2010. They also state this:

96 percent of NCAA revenue benefits the membership through distributions or services. The 96 percent figure includes: • Division I distributions (60 percent) • Championships (13 percent) • Programs and national office services (19 percent) • Other services (such as the Eligibility Center) (4 percent)
To be clear, the 96 percent includes much of the national office’s expenses (including salaries), which are housed in programmatic budgets. The 4 percent that remains is for central services, such as building operations and salaries not related to particular programs.

For anyone who is interested, here is the NCAA’s main budget/distribution site.

by BlueNSilverBlood on Jan 19, 2012 5:33 PM CST up reply actions

Sorry,

And here is a link that supports what you said about the $11.8 bil sourced from the U.S. Dept of Education, along with an article from June 2011 on USA Today saying that athletic departments have seen a recent influx of money.

by BlueNSilverBlood on Jan 19, 2012 5:42 PM CST up reply actions