The Cowboys do not need to emulate the Giants – a response
by Conn Cowboy on Jan 19, 2012 10:29 AM CST
Email
PrintThis post is in response to http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/1/19/2717026/what-the-dallas-cowboys-need-to-copy-from-the-new-york-giants
First, let's get things straight about the Giant-Packer game. The Packers lost it more than the Giants won it.
The Packer receivers dropped more balls in a single game than I've seen in a long time from any team, and Rodgers missed some wide open throws he usually makes. Combine that with three lost fumbles in a game (after having 8?? the entire season) and a prayer that gets answered at the end of the first half, and you have an upset. You have to wonder how the very unfortunate issue with the OC affected their focus during the week.
There are very few things about the Giants I want to emulate. When everybody is healthy, we have a better offense, we a better QB, we have better WRs (if we resign Laurent Robinson), we have better TEs, and we have better RBs. I cannot say much about the OL, but Dallas rushed for 1807 yards this season at 4.4 a clip. The Giants, however, were last in the league at 1427 yards at 3.5 a clip. FYI -- the Giants had 3 more rushing attempts than the Cowboys over the course of the season.
The Giants have better depth on the D-line, but they've had that for several years and nothing to show for it since the 2007 season with the exception of this year.
Dallas must strive to become the same team as the New York Giants.
&*#@* that … the Giants are the benefit of the "on any given Sunday" rule in the NFL (i.e., on any given Sunday, one team can beat another). Atlanta was a weak offensive team that couldn't stretch anybody down the field – Atlanta was the perfect sacrificial lamb for the Giants who are as weak in the secondary as we are. As for Green Bay, I've discussed that above.
Both teams got killed by turnovers
Let me tell you about turnovers, you can never count on them. They are also a big part of the "on any given Sunday" rule. Green Bay was #2 in the league in turnover margin during the year with a +24. The Giants were +8. FYI – the Cowboys were +4 – not too far from the Giants and not bad considering the time only had a month to learn Ryan's offense.
"both the Giants and the San Francisco 49ers were effectively going after the ball and disrupting the quarterbacks, while the supposed favorites in each game failed to do so.
The Saints turned it over 5 times. Although no team should expect to get 5 turnovers in a game (or be +4), if you are +4 in a game, you should win the game by 2 or 3 TDs – not win on a last second play. As for Green Bay, as I noted above, they were 2nd best in the league in turnover margin – it isn't like they weren't trying.
But what they do have, especially with the return of Osi Umenyiora, is a disruptive, penetrating defensive front.
The Giants had a lot of sacks 48, which was tied for 3rd in the league, but the Cowboys had 42 sacks, which was tied for 7th in the league. I'm not seeing a big difference here.
The Giants do not have a statistically impressive defense themselves.
That is an understatement. The Giants gave up 394 points this year (or 24th best in the league) – I'm not seeing anything particularly appealing about that number. The Cowboys gave up 369 points.
In yards/game, Cowboys were 343/game for 14th in the league. The Giants were 376/game for 27th in the league. Again, I'm not sure where your love affair with the Giant's defense derives from.
What else can we look at: Forced/Recovered fumbles for Giants (13/11). For the Cowboys (13/9). Not a big difference.
In the end, your post wasn't about the Cowboys being more like the Giants. Your post was simply you want the Cowboys to draft a defensive lineman in the first round. Yeah … we get it. People are split on whether to go offensive line, defensive line, or secondary. But to bring up the Giants???? All you are doing is getting off message by making the Giants out to be a good team when they aren't.
However, as the examples of the Packers and Saints clearly proved, even an elite quarterback and a red hot offense cannot carry a team. You have to have a defense.
The fact of the matter is that the Giants are far more like the Packers, Saints, Lions, and Patriots than they are the 49ers and Ravens. On yardage basis, the Giants are the 8th in offense and 27th in defense. The Packers are 3rd in offense and 32nd in defense. The Saints are 1st in offense and 24th in defense. The Lions are 5th in offense and 23rd in defense, and the Patriots are 2nd in offense and 31st in defense. The Giants win by throwing the ball, and when their defense can step it up (never a sure thing), they can win. Same thing holds true for all of the other teams on this list except they all have better offenses.
The 49ers are 26th in offense and 4th in defense, and the Ravens are 15th in offense and 3rd in defense. Again, this is vastly different from the Giants 8th in offense and 27th in defense.
They can beat the Giants by imitating the Giants.
The Cowboys can already beat the Giants. The first game proved that. If it wasn't for a complete defensive meltdown over the last 6 minutes (and a little more aggressive play calling) by the Cowboys (i.e., not wait until 3rd down to throw the ball), the Cowboys would have won.
Many people argued that the Cowboys shouldn't want to get in the playoffs because they would have done nothing. However, the Giants proved why that belief was simply wrong because they are showing that a team with a good offense and a bad defense can still go far. Anything can happen in the playoffs and Cowboys have a better all-around team than the Giants.
As for me, I just want the Cowboys to get better -- not be the second coming of the Giants.
Another user-created commentary provided by a BTB reader.
66 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
The Cowboys can already beat the Giants. The first game proved that. If it wasn’t for a complete defensive meltdown over the last 6 minutes (and a little more aggressive play calling) by the Cowboys (i.e., not wait until 3rd down to throw the ball), the Cowboys would have won.
I’d take it seriously but your logic is essentially “Giants are lucky so their wins don’t count” but then you go and priase yourself for losing. I mean sure if you dont’ want to copy the Giants then don’t but it’s clear whatever is going on isn’t working and the staus quo isn’t good enough. If you think right now the team is a Super Bowl contender if you do absolutely nothing and if you think the proof is in your loss in the first game then you need better analysis. I don’t think what my team is doign is perfect but the Cowboys sure as hell ain’t perfect either.
by The Cole Train on Jan 19, 2012 11:49 AM CST reply actions
You need to read more of what I have written in the past
If you think right now the team is a Super Bowl contender if you do absolutely nothing and if you think the proof is in your loss in the first game then you need better analysis.
I’ve made it perfectly clear (in other posts) what I think the Cowboys need to do. Also, I never wrote “Giants are lucky so their wins don’t count.” I made a couple of points. Things like luck or “bounce of the ball,” or “a game of inches” or “any given Sunday” comes into play whether a team wins or loses. The best team doesn’t always win. Hence, just because the Giants win doesn’t mean they are good.
I mean sure if you dont’ want to copy the Giants then don’t
What is it that we should be copying? Their last in the league in rushing? Their bottom 8/5 in the league in points allowed and yardage allowed?
Are you are saying that is what you want from the Cowboys?
You are dillusional
You don’t want your Cowboys to be clutch like the Giants? You don’t want Romo to rise in the biggest moments like Eli?
Giants D giving up 13 points a game in the playoffs, you don’t want your Cowboys to get hot when it matters most?
Eli and Coughlin are setting NFL records for road playoff wins, which it is said home field is even more important in the playoffs then the regular season.
You say the Cowboys are better? If they were to play right now, Giants win going away, not even close, great teams play great in the spotlight, enjot the Superbowl.
by BigBlueCrew_jfl on Jan 27, 2012 2:57 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Give it a rest ...
You don’t want your Cowboys to be clutch like the Giants?
Tell me about all the late season collapses by the Giants.
You don’t want Romo to rise in the biggest moments like Eli?
Like he did against the Redskins and Jets this year when the Giant’s playoff lives were on the line? Eli was putrid.
Giants D giving up 13 points a game in the playoffs, you don’t want your Cowboys to get hot when it matters most?
Don’t confuse a few data points with a statistically-significant trend. The Niners and Falcons are flawed football teams offensively. The Packers had issues that I already discussed.
BTW — wasn’t this the same Giants team that gave up over 40 pnts/game during a 3 game stretch in the second half of this season? Yuck …..
Eli and Coughlin are setting NFL records for road playoff wins
woo hooo …. that and about $5 will get you a venti at Starbucks.
great teams play great in the spotlight
Again, explain to me all the Giants last-season collapses (i.e., the “spotlight”) the last couple of years.
Arizona made it to the playoffs a few years ago based upon a QB getting hot at the right time. Since then, AZ has done squat. Great teams are inconsistent like the Giants. Great teams don’t need to win the last game of the season to get into the playoffs.
If you win the Super Bowl, party it up. The Giants are a flawed team and it might be the last time they’ll sniff the playoffs for a long time.
by Conn Cowboy on Jan 27, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
I get your point about the GB game
the packers looked worse than they had all year.
You opinions on which team is more talented is debatable. Eli is a bit more clutch than Romo, you have to give the guy his due.
The biggest difference I saw was the Giants ability to rise up in big games (something the cowboys need to improve on) and not give games away (something the cowboys excelled in throughout the year).
Game 16 was a blowout and the cowboys barely showed up. If we are more talented then the Giants, what does that say about our team’s will to win?
Just my thoughts ...
Eli is a bit more clutch than Romo, you have to give the guy his due.
Watch the Redskin game the Giants played at the end of the season. Romo would have never played that badly in a big game.
The biggest difference I saw was the Giants ability to rise up in big games.
They are ALL big games. Game 1 is just important as game 16. I cringe when I hear that Eli was so clutch in the 4th quarter — well, the first 3 quarters count just as much.
Game 16 was a blowout and the cowboys barely showed up. If we are more talented then the Giants, what does that say about our team’s will to win?
What is “will to win”? Is it some quantifiable factor? or is it what people label the teams that win — after they win?
There is a lot that goes into winning a football game. One player not being on the same page as everybody else can lose it for you. A coach not understanding the difference between “in field goal range” and “easily makeable field goal range” is another. There are hundreds of things that can make or break a football teach that do not involve the nebulous “will to win.”
the cowboys barely showed up.
The Cowboys were within 7 points at one point in the 4th quarter after a terrible first half. You cannot tell me they didn’t show up.
Yes Conn, I agree. "show up" "will to win" "clutch" are just labels we give to the guys that happen to win.
Billito, Is Brady finally getting his ‘clutch’ back after 6 years of no superbowls? Alex Smith more clutch than Brees now? Why didn’t the Giants rise up last year? And the year before? All of a sudden, they can rise up again and the Packers can’t? Maybe the Packers didn’t have a “will to win” last week. Jerry should be looking for lucky free agents that can rise up and want to win.
Sorry, the better talent for various areas of the teams is not all that debatable. But when you start talking about magical things like clutch and will to win—which is not talent—the Cowboys might want to try to emulate the Bills at the beginning of the year, the Bears in the middle, then who ever wins the superbowl. ‘cuz they’re clutch and full of fight. And, Sorry if the sarcasm is way overboard.
You guys can micro analyze what I say all you want
But to sit here and say that
Cowboys have a better all-around team than the Giants.
seems foolish. They have beaten us soundly so many times in the last few years and have been to two super bowls in the same time that we have won one playoff game.
You can preach all day about what the Cowboys should be able to do but the fact (meaning there is no logical argument available) is that this team has not done dick in the last decade.
The window that opened in 2006-2007 is a lot closer to being closed then you would like to admit.
It hurts me to type all of this but I am sick of telling myself how talented the cowboys are and how good they should be.
Yes, all games are big games
but take this quote in the context of the entire season
Game 1 is just important as game 16. I cringe when I hear that Eli was so clutch in the 4th quarter — well, the first 3 quarters count just as much.
Now look at the playoff schedule this weekend – one team the cowboys beat, one team that swept the cowboys at the END of the season, and one team that maybe we should have beat but did not.
It sure would be nice if the cowboys could win more games at the end of the season but I guess you think the fact that they “should” is good enough.
Yet again ...
but I guess you think the fact that they "should" is good enough
somebody responds to something I did not write. This is a common malady in blogs. Many people don’t respond to what the other person wrote. They respond to a point they want to respond to — even if it wasn’t made.
I already wrote a post (actually wrote it before the last game of the season) about who wasn’t going to be on the Cowboys next year. I have never said the Cowboys were “good enough.” However, I’m not all “doom and gloom” and have I watched enough football over the years to know a team that has potential when I see it.
Okay, last try
A. I am commenting on this post about what you wrote on this post. I am not commenting on other posts you have written so that is irrelevant.
B. To say things like
The Cowboys can already beat the Giants. The first game proved thatis as good as saying “the cowboys should have beaten the Giants”. And if they had, they would be in the playoffs. The facts are, they got swept by the Giants and the season is over.
C. I am not “doom and gloom” but I can’t stomach the Wade Phillips school of rationalizing and be excited about potential. I have been banking on potential for the last decade and my patience is running thin.
D. I hope you are right and I am wrong but the subpar play of this team over the last several years has forced me to see them for what they really are – a team that wastes too many opportunities and has barely sniffed the playoffs in 15 years as a result.
BOO-FRICKING-YAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope you are right and I am wrong but the subpar play of this team over the last several years has forced me to see them for what they really are – a team that wastes too many opportunities and has barely sniffed the playoffs in 15 years as a result.
Billito , I bow in reverence for that statement.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 20, 2012 7:18 AM CST up reply actions
"the packers looked worse than they had all year."
That;s because the Giants did a lot to make them look bad.
In particular, the Packers O-line looked slow and unathletic in comparison to the Jints’ front four.
say whatever but they beat us twice
i’m not saying cowboys need to copy them but they do need to be better than them, right now they aren’t
I don't disagree
i’m not saying cowboys need to copy them but they do need to be better than them, right now they aren’t
My point was never about resting on our laurels — sure we need to improve. My point is that making the Giants out to be this great team we need to emulate was a stretch.
I can agree for the most part
The difference between these teams is they are a little bit better in the trenches. Their defense was a little bit better than ours, and their offense was a little bit better too. I’ll say that saying we need to emulate the Giants is to say we need to get a little bit better, and thats not what we really need to do, I think we see our holes.
Sure, if we were a little bit better we could have been the ones to beat the Packers. There are lots of teams who could have beaten them if all they do is miss/drop a ton of passes and turn the ball over.
heads need to start giving the Giants some credit
they are winning the Super Bowl
"I got the 9 on me so I think I'm Romo"
Fabolous
by Archie Barberio on Jan 19, 2012 1:17 PM CST reply actions
I do agree the Giants are winning the SB
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 19, 2012 4:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Just win and everything is beautiful.
Sorry to disagree, but the Cowboys are better in every area but defensive and offensive lines. So yes, improve those. However, emulatng the Giants beating any good teams would require Romo to complete “hail marys” in the middle of the field and rely on the other team to drop the ball.
It is possible
that the Giants hard-hitting defense may have caused Packer receivers to think twice before catching a ball.
As for Eli’s Hail Mary, all I can think about is Romo’s Hail Mary pass against the Patriots that went out of bounds around the five yard line…
You are joking?
that the Giants hard-hitting defense may have caused Packer receivers to think twice before catching a ball
The Packers offense kicked a$$ all season and kicked the Giants’ defense butt just a few games ago. Are you saying that that Packers suddenly became scare of the “big hitting” defensive backs of the Giants?
Pleasuh ….
Seriously? You're going to cite Manning's ridiculously lucky Hail Mary (GB's defense
was so shockingly bad on that play, I still can’t get over it) and a pass attempted by Romo a couple of weeks into the rehab of his broken rib? You surely do love you some Manning, don’t you? Oh, that’s right, it’s “unseemly” not to worship ol’ Eli.
simply wrong??? what have you been watching for the last 15years???
when was the last time we actually showed up for a big game?
Cowboys have a better all-around team than the Giants? again – what have you been watching.
if you’re not willing to take a good, long, hard look in the mirror – nothing will ever get better
Giants simply arent any better than the Cowboys and thats simply a fact - Terry
The Giants are NOT better than the Cowboys...thats the reality - Terry
when was the last time we actually showed up for big game?
The first half against Detroit……oh……..wait…….you probably meant a whole game, huh?
(lol, I’m with ya)
" ... Any one of 500 coaches could have won those Super Bowls." Jones later denied saying such a thing -- sober. So he qualified it with, yet another, infamous quote: It "was just the whiskey talking."
"...it may be the whiskey talkin', but the whiskey says I miss you, everyday..."- Fountains of Wayne
They are ALL big games.
How many times do I have to say that.
I first started posting on this blog (I used to post on the Cowboys site but that place is sty) after the Arizona game. I remember lots of people saying “it’s just 1 game … don’t worry about it.” If we had won that game, we would have been able to wrap up the division title by winning next week against the Giants. However, we let the game slip and gave the Giants hope. Well, we all know how that turned out.
Every win the Cowboys have gotten has been big. This isn’t the NBA or MLB were a 2 or 3 game slide elicits little more than a shrug of the shouder. There was a reason why Romo came back in the SF game to lead us to a victory (does that count as a big game?). I’m paraphrasing but his comment was basically that “we cannot go 0-2 to start the season.” He knows that every game is important.
dude - i'm talking BIG GAMES...not reg season game vs Arizona
like win and you are in playoffs….or actual playoff games…
see Giants playoff game – Jan 2008 (cabo game)
philly phlop – Dec 2008
minnesota massacre – Jan 2010
both December Giants games this year
every Cowboys win was BIG?? give me a break…they beat SF and absolutely no other playoff team or team with a winning record this year….not to mention the fact that we were absolutely emabarrassed by Philly and NY 4 times this year….
when Giants need a win to save their season – they get it…when they need a win to make the playoffs – they get it….what about the Cowboys?? not so much
Cowboys have a better all-around team than the Giants – they just lost to them twice this year…once by implosion, once by @ss kicking….
think about the absurdity of your statement
Giants simply arent any better than the Cowboys and thats simply a fact - Terry
The Giants are NOT better than the Cowboys...thats the reality - Terry
Dude ...
you need to take a chill pill.
Every win in the NFL is a big win. One win can separate a team from making the playoffs or not making the playoffs, from having a bye versus not having a bye, from having home field advantage to not having home field advantage. Every win is important. You may not realize it, but the players, coaches, and a few fans do.
give me a break…they beat SF and absolutely no other playoff team or team with a winning record this year
Sounds like a team currently in the NFC championship game. In case you didn’t get the reference, during the regular season, the Giants only beat one team with a winning record and/or is in the playoffs — the Patriots.
when Giants need a win to save their season – they get it
What happened in 2008 — Giants were #1 seed and lost their first game in the playoffs. In 2009 and 2010, the Giants got off to fast starts and collapsed at the end to not make the playoffs. It seems to me they had plenty of chances to “save their season” and blew it the last 3 years.
FYI — When it comes to big games, it seems to me you forgot both Philly games at end of the 2009 season for the Cowboys. Don’t worry, I’m used to posters not letting facts get in the way of a good blathering rant.
May I make a suggetion, become a Giant fan. You can root for “Big Blue” to your heart’s content this weekend. You can throw kisses at Eli, Brandon, and Victor while you are watching the game on TV.
I came to this blog to find real fans who don’t cry and whine at every bump in the road. Perhaps I was asking for too much ….
McLovin9
Doesn’t let facts get in the way of his arguments.
Most of the guys & gals on this site are knowledgable. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 19, 2012 9:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
just because you dont like what i have to say - doesnt make it wrong
Giants simply arent any better than the Cowboys and thats simply a fact - Terry
The Giants are NOT better than the Cowboys...thats the reality - Terry
just because you disagree with everyone
doesn’t make your right either
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 20, 2012 10:45 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
give me a break....
Philly was fading fast in 2009 as Donovan was playing his way out of town….and what happened the following year??? yeah – that’s right….back to getting our asses kicked by Philly again….
whine and cry at every bump in the road??? its been 15 years of this….thats a long road
Giants simply arent any better than the Cowboys and thats simply a fact - Terry
The Giants are NOT better than the Cowboys...thats the reality - Terry
Uh huh...and I support Jerry as gm...
Cowboys have a better all-around team than the Giants?
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
You want to elaborate ...
and break down the teams?
how bout we look at the scores? 37-34 and 31-14
last time i checked – that’s how they determine who wins and who loses…
save your breakdown for dc.com
Giants simply arent any better than the Cowboys and thats simply a fact - Terry
The Giants are NOT better than the Cowboys...thats the reality - Terry
Dallas had their chances to win both those games
GM1: Eli went into White Mamba mode and took the game from the Cowboys. The pass rush and secondary couldn’t come up with the plays. And then the STs gaffed JPP block Bailey’s kick.
GM2: Dallas rallied back to make it 21-14, had their chances to take the game over, but fell short. 31-14 was a very misleading score.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 19, 2012 9:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
dude - close losses dont count
by that argument – i could say that we deserved to lose the Miami game, both Washington games and the 49ers game and we should have been 4-12 instead of 8-8….
it cuts both ways
Giants simply arent any better than the Cowboys and thats simply a fact - Terry
The Giants are NOT better than the Cowboys...thats the reality - Terry
Really?
Are the 49ers better than the Saints?
Are the Giants better than the Packers?
Are the Tebows better than the Steelers?
If all you are working with is the final score of the game to evaluate a team, then perhaps we are working at a level a little deeper than you are comfortable with.
dude - i'm going to like having you around...you'd give Terry a run for his money
if you think the Cowboys are better than the Giants – have at it….
we can get as deep as you want…
Giants simply arent any better than the Cowboys and thats simply a fact - Terry
The Giants are NOT better than the Cowboys...thats the reality - Terry
Go at it
we can get as deep as you want
I’ve already presented my case. Present the case for your beloved Giants.
FYI — remember, we are going deeper than just the final scores of games
by Conn Cowboy on Jan 21, 2012 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
I can agree that the only thing
we need to emulate is their ability to draft quality defensive linemen (Canty not withstanding.)
The last part of your post sounds like you believe we’re really close. We’re not.
We need about a 30-40% turnover of our starters. We’d be luckier than a Eli-thrown-ball-snagged-against-a-helmet to get that done (the right way) in under 3 years.
" ... Any one of 500 coaches could have won those Super Bowls." Jones later denied saying such a thing -- sober. So he qualified it with, yet another, infamous quote: It "was just the whiskey talking."
"...it may be the whiskey talkin', but the whiskey says I miss you, everyday..."- Fountains of Wayne
Lose the pessimism
We need about a 30-40% turnover of our starters. We’d be luckier than a Eli-thrown-ball-snagged-against-a-helmet to get that done (the right way) in under 3 years.
Most teams turn around 30% of their starters each year, and the Cowboys aren’t that far off. I’ll give you two reasons: Romo and Ware. Actually, just one reason: Romo.
The Cowboys have talent, and they have talent in the right places. You think if we picked up Carlos Rogers for a couple million last off-season and cut Newman that this team wouldn’t have made the playoffs?
The Cowboys were a couple of plays each game (and sometimes just a single play) away from being 13-3 this year.
People need to lose their “woe is us” attitude and realize that team has talent.
Are you saying that our WRs are bad?
Are you saying that our TEs are bad?
Are you down about our new RT (i.e., T. Smith)?
Are you down about our top rusher?
Do you realize that our defense was ranked 14th not 28th?
People are so focused on the Cowboys warts that they don’t realize the the entire league has problems as well.
Do you want Philly’s talent with a QB that is getting more fragile every season?
Do you Washington’s talent and whoever their QB is going to be?
I’ve already addressed the Giants.
Are you impressed with the Bears?
What about the Vikings?
Tamba Bay?
Carolina has a QB that puts up numbers but what else?
No QB Arizona?
No QB Seattle?
Detroit? Decent offense, but their defense doesn’t scare anybody.
We know that Green Bay and the Saints can light it up, but their defenses suck. Still, they were still able to win some games.
SF? You think SF is going to do well year after year with Alex Smith?
Wait, I finally figured it out, you were wishing you were a Rams fans.
The bottom line is that every team has issues, but all I hear from Cowboys is “woe is us, woe is us … we suck … life sucks.”
The glass is 40% full
And I stand behind my statement above.
When I count the number of Cowboy starter positions that I believe or more than JAG, I come up with 9 (all the players you mentioned are among the 9.) Signing LRob could make it 9+ counting a 3-wide set.
9/22= 41%
I don’t compare us to other teams, I compare us to us, circa 1993 (and late ‘70s). I compare us to what we should be. Right now, all teams have flaws- I’m not impressed by any team in football right now.
I’m saying we need to get to the point where at least 16 to 18 of our 22 starters are more than JAGs. My math says that’s a 30-40% turnover.
More than JAG is great for depth too, we had that on the D-line in ’93.
You may call my take pessimistic, I call it realistic.
" ... Any one of 500 coaches could have won those Super Bowls." Jones later denied saying such a thing -- sober. So he qualified it with, yet another, infamous quote: It "was just the whiskey talking."
"...it may be the whiskey talkin', but the whiskey says I miss you, everyday..."- Fountains of Wayne
This here is the 10s ...
not the 70s or 90s.
I’m saying we need to get to the point where at least 16 to 18 of our 22 starters are more than JAGs.
In today’s salary cap era, you cannot have pro-bowlers at every position. FYI — find me a team that has 16 starters that are more than JAGs.
The top 7 players on the Cowboys accounted for $41M against the cap. Do you know what that means? That means that there are 18 guys playing for less than $600K/season or about how much we paid T. Newman this year. The simple fact of the matter is that once a player gets to more than a JAG, he is going to want to get paid. Once he gets paid, you are going to have to find somebody to step up (for cheap) and you’ll be happy if he is a JAG.
How many players did the Cowboys lose from their 90s teams because they wanted to get paid? Stepnoski? Harper? Norton? to name a few. It happens to every team.
Look at this year’s Saints and Green Bay. They are both probably going to lose some good players to free agency because they don’t have the money to keep them. You just cannot have that many good players on your team because you cannot keep them all before they want to get paid.
Good teams stay good because they have good quarterbacks and good coaches. Look at the Patriots. Few players on that team were on the team when they won their last Super Bowl. However, they have a great QB, and a great QB cures a lot of ills.
The Cowboys have a QB that I trust. Shore up the interior of our offensive line and get some playmakers in the backend of our defense, and we’ll have a very good chance to go far next year.
As the draft goes...
the last 2 years have been above average and we’ve added 2-3 better than JAGs each of those.
Our history with FAs is spotty, as is any team’s with FAs, you just don’t get many quality players without blowing the bank.
Despite my signature lines, I actually am cautiously optimistic that we’ll use the draft to grow our own talent. The O-line, for example, isn’t for lack of trying, but we are paying the price now for all the Rogers, Marten, Peterman and Brewster picks that didn’t pan out. If they had, we’d be so much better off, but they didn’t and it’s going to take time. Same for OLB and DEs. But we’d need to up our batting average in the draft to get things done in under 3 years. I hope it’s sooner.
" ... Any one of 500 coaches could have won those Super Bowls." Jones later denied saying such a thing -- sober. So he qualified it with, yet another, infamous quote: It "was just the whiskey talking."
"...it may be the whiskey talkin', but the whiskey says I miss you, everyday..."- Fountains of Wayne
I'm just glad someone was willing to point out the obvious fallacy
The Giants defense is not up to par with the 49ers and Ravens. Those latter two teams are elite defenses.
The Giants win with:
1) Big plays in the passing game
2) Pass Protection
3) And 4 man pass rush that can get pressure and sacks.
In 2007, it’s fair to say the Giants won on the strength of their defense; a helmet catch by Tyree to set up Eli to Plax also helped.
However in 2011, the Giants passing offense (includes the pass protection) and the Giants front 4 are equally contributing to the team’s success. If either unit fails, the team is likely to fail.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 19, 2012 3:58 PM CST via mobile reply actions
The Giants have the Cowboys beat in two areas: O line and D line. Obvious, I know,
but in those areas, the Cowboys need to emulate the Giants.
I compare us the Giants, Steelers, Patriots
1) We need to get a pass rush like the Giants and Steelers.
2) We need to get playmaking safeties who can take away the middle of the field like the Steelers (when healthy).
3) Tony needs the pass protection that Tom Brady receives.
Once these three key areas are addressed, everything will fall into place. We can get by with finding corners outside of the first rd if we protect Romo, consistently disrupt the other team’s QB, and take away the middle of the field.
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 19, 2012 9:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The O-line comment is debatable ...
Look at the rushing numbers for the 2 two teams — it isn’t even close. The Cowboys were almost a full yard per carry better than the Giants, and your offensive line plays a huge part in your rushing game.
I like your courage.
Few here has the nuts to write a post to disagree with a front page writer. You have good arguments and don’t fall too much in to false hope. I like your way of thinking more than those “real” fans who say they are realists and in the next sentense worship some other teams “will to win” or some else nonsense. I too think we don’t need to emulate Giants about anything just make your team so that you can win them. And that just means good drafting and FA signings. We all have ideas how this team would be better and I’m not going to go in to that but all this talk that we are miles away from SB is BS! We only need a couple good difference makers to defence and offence and we are a playoff team and when you are a playoff team it’s “any given sunday” as conn cowboys said. I look forward for your next post.
Thanks ...
The problem with a lot of posters is that they lack perspective.
I’ve watched and rooted for the Cowboys from the 70s on, and I live in an area where, within a 5 hours drive, you can be in one of either 7 NFL different stadiums. I can drive 2 hours an be in one of 3 different NFL stadiums. I exposed to the talk about many other teams, and it is readily apparent that every team has warts.
From my watching the Cowboys, I’m sure that Romo is the real deal and can lead is to a Super Bowl. I also know from my time watching the NFL is that a great QB can take a team far. You just need to stay (realtively) injury-free and get some turnovers at the right time.
I don't care if someone disagrees with me.
I actually put some stuff out there to see if it will draw fire.
My point in the original article is that the Giants seem to have solutions on the line, O and D, that the Cowboys desperately need. If the team works to fix those areas, they can win games the same way I think the Giants have the past few weeks.
And we are going to have to beat the Giants to go anywhere in the near future.
But all opinions are welcome, as long as they are done with proper decorum.
Formerly Pineywoods - different name, same cockeyed view of the world.
Jason Garrett - Lord of Order
Rob Ryan - Lord of Chaos
You have good points in your post. But I just commended the courage and skill to disagree.
And I guess you but that out to make a conversation. So job well done.
Gmen draft for pass rush...........I would love to emulate that...........hard to argue against it
Currently this team has 3 holes in the interior of the o line. They need 3 d linemen. 1 ilb and 1 olb. They need 2 safties and 2 cb’s. That’s a lot of needing to try and fill in one draft.
Few here has the nuts to write a post to disagree with a front page writer
Rabble and KD will offer some objective views from time to time…….The rest are fluff writers.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
Things aren't that bad
Currently this team has 3 holes in the interior of the o line. They need 3 d linemen. 1 ilb and 1 olb. They need 2 safties and 2 cb’s. That’s a lot of needing to try and fill in one draft.
So you are saying that we only have 2 player on defense worth keeping? Sorry, you cannot have a pro-bowl caliber player at every position.
We have 2 cbs and perhaps a 1/2 of a safety (I never liked Sensabaugh and I’m not happy that he was re-signed). Are they great CBs? No. However, they are servicable. You cannot have great players at every position. If there was no salary cap and Jerry could spend like the New York Yankees, we could expect to have great players at almost every position.
We need to see what Bruce Carter can do on ILB. You cannot give up on a 2nd round pick — particularly one that you knew wasn’t going to make an impact in his rookie year because of injury. You have to see if some of the young (cheap) d-lineman we currently can make a difference. You just cannot sign good d-lineman at a cost-effective price. The Cowboys lost Canty and Bowen because they could afford to re-sign them. Once a d-lineman gets good, they go from being a 500K-1M player in their first contract to being a 4-6M player in their second contract.
I haven't given up on Carter but Brooking and James will be gone. You still need another ilb for depth.
The interior of the line was getting Romo killed. Need > 3 interior o linemen ( I like Kowalski though)
Scandrick will be eaten alive if he is the starter.. Need > 2 cb’s / unless you like Ball
Signing somone like Terrell Thomas though would be of great help to Dallas
Uhg, safties > need 2
Olb , nuff said > need 1
D linemen , not enough disrupters (Rat can’t play as much as he once could) > need 3
I agree you can’t have 45 probowlers….Gotta do better than what we have currently.
The Cowboys haven’t drafted a disrupting d lineman since Rat. Rat made his presence felt his rookie year. The current young d linemen are backup types. They don’t disrupt the opposing offense.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
Con one other thing I didn't mention is the loser element ingrained in this team.....
It plays as large a role in Dallas as any player. They have a propensity for choking. They don’t step up in big games. The Giants do. You can’t undermine the fact that when it was playoff time Dallas folded. They always do. What is your retort to this ?
Btw I agree with some of your post. Not bashing you at all.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 20, 2012 9:32 AM CST up reply actions
well - the "what? me worry?" crew will have you believe
that there’s nothing wrong with the culture in Dallas – when clearly there is something wrong…its no coincidence that we have failed miserably in big games and failed to capitalize on opportunities….
but buys like this will say – what big games?? theyre all big games…
hey – we should have been 13-3 this year…we’ll draft a couple guys this year – hopefully we get hot towards the end of the season and go on a run…
Giants simply arent any better than the Cowboys and thats simply a fact - Terry
The Giants are NOT better than the Cowboys...thats the reality - Terry
Any given Sunday ...
You can’t undermine the fact that when it was playoff time Dallas folded. They always do. What is your retort to this ?
I’ve already discussed the Giants above. Except for the season and their Super Bowl season, they’ve “folded” in many big games.
FYI — there is a difference between “folding” and losing a game. Just because a team lost a game doesn’t mean that they folded. On any given Sunday, the ball can bounce your way (or not), you can have a backup corner get a terrible facemask call late in the 2nd quarter to give the other team great field position (I"ll see if their are any Cowboy fans that remember that one). You can have your 3rd WR (with supposedly good hands) drop a pass that hits him in his hands and doesn’t have anybody around them. I can probably come up with dozens and dozens of more examples where things sometime doesn’t go your way.
Regardless, none of those players are going to be on the 2012 Cowobys. The Colts of 2011 weren’t the same Colts of 2010, and I expect that the Colts of 2012 will be a different team than the Colts of 2011. Teams change.
Unless you believe in Voodoo or magical curses, then what happened to the Cowboys in the preceding 15 years will have no bearing on the Cowboys in 2012. Ask a player or Coach (oh … I loved Parcell’s answers to this type of question) about some losing streak or how the team performed over the past years, and they’ll always say that this is a different team and what happened in the past doesn’t matter.
The Detroit Lions turned it around in a couple of years. It happens all the time. The Patriots were the laughing sock of the league for years and years and years before they became good. Same thing with the Saints.
by Conn Cowboy on Jan 21, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
This thread is hilarious
That is all
"The tone is business," Garrett said. "Let's get to work. The Giants are going to be at the Meadowlands on Sunday at 4:15. They're an awfully good football team. We have to get ready for them."
by Rohpuri on Jan 20, 2012 10:48 AM CST via mobile reply actions
i dont think the cowboys are far off
You need to surround romo with the right players. Not sure garret is the best coach to lead your team. From what I’ve watched of Romo he is an excellent qb that many teams would kill for.
I think the cowboys biggest problem is having your owner as your gm, imo.
by jhMLB on Jan 26, 2012 4:50 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Blogging The Boys
Related FanShots on Blogging The Boys
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Things to know about NFL men who served in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam
- How Kyle Orton almost cost the Colts Andrew Luck
- Detroit Lions DT Nick Fairley arrested again; now has more NFL arrests than NFL sacks
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
