Lets keep Almost Anthony

by Solonupe03 on Jan 20, 2012 1:59 PM CST

As a Cowboys fan since birth, i have come to loathe and appreciate the process of predicting talent. With that being said, I am amazed at the blatant efforts to blame a squandered season (or two) on Anthony Spencer. Mr Spencer deserves to hoist some blame on his shoulders but should we get rid of him, simply put "No"!!!

In my opinion his draft spot almost always draws the ire of fans and non factors of the Dallas Cowboys.
I still have faith in the man we drafted #26 in the 2007 draft.

He played sparsely his first two seasons behind Greg Ellis.

Before we get started lets get the Ware and Spencer comparisons out of the way!

Yes, they were both DE's in college, yes the both have nice combine numbers, but in a defense your player has to do his part within the scheme. How many TE's or RB's does Ware have to cover or at least check the flat before he rushes.

When the Cowboys went to the 3-4 front it was to confuse an offenses, D Ware plays the Rush End OLB spot, which coincidentally means he RUSHES, no two players can do the same thing on a given play, if you send someone extra someone else has to cover the person in man or that area of the field in zone coverages. Honestly speaking who knew D. Ware would turn out to be such a beast for us.

In order for Mr Ware's sack totals to exceed expectations he has to get after the passer, but he has had over the years quality ends to engage the OT while he makes his moves ie.. Chris Canty, Igor, Hatcher. When Spencer was finally given a chance to start he was lined next to Spears and Coleman, run stuffing specialists so that he may set the edge, play the flat or hand a TE off into a zone, then he rushes, all of this must be done before he gets the green light.

Along without the presence of a pass rushing end to his side, he almost exclusively lines up next to T. Newman as the corner to his side. Most QB's are right handed so you immediately see what is going on and not the blind side of a play (D. Ware). T Newman plays about 10 yds back, there is no way to stop a quick slant or a hitch and go which he frequently gets beat by alond with Victor Cruz's infamous drag route. Almost Anthony does not have time to even get to a passer, then next your coverage has to hold up long enough for your rushes to get there, and we all know about our secondary

How many truely believe his isnt a good player or do we simply say Ware draws double teams so he should be free.

Looking at the free agent class of OLB i am not impressed, nor do i believe a rookie OLB can learn Ryan's defense and outpre

In his seasons you can not tell me that he has not earned a new contract, not a Woodley but a Spencer, but all those who say draft Upshaw isnt he just like Anthony?

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Comments

The question you seem to be posing

Is LT and a bad corner or a Deion Sanders and a bad pass rusher. I say LT but that’s me.

Either way our current bad corner and pass rusher is a bad combo

I'm not saying Tony Romo is the reincarnation of the mythical Romulus. I'm just saying

by NYHorn on Jan 20, 2012 2:46 PM CST reply actions

Agreed

LT struck fear into his opponents…BEAST. And I’m a big fan of Prime as a football player, but I wouldn’t even think about it.

by Bermystar on Jan 20, 2012 3:41 PM CST up reply actions

Pass rushing attempts

How many pass rushing attempts per game does Spencer get compared to Ware? If Spencer is more frequently containing the edge or dropping back into pass coverage, how can we expect him to be as good as D Ware?

Seems to me that people may be overcriticizing Spencer’s value and role in this scheme. I’ll bet we lose him in FA because someone will give him a big contract and switch him to a 4-3 DE.

Wish you were here and comfortably numb.

by pfloyd1 on Jan 20, 2012 3:23 PM CST reply actions

That's where he belongs

Spencer holds the point of attack and is great against the run, he’s just not the pass rusher you need as a 3-4 OLB. He needs to play in a 4-3, he’d be great in that scheme. It’s counter productive for the whole defense to have a run stuffing 3-4 OLB. We need a better pass rusher there, and leave the run defense up to the DL and ILB’s.

by Useful_Idiot_ on Jan 20, 2012 3:33 PM CST up reply actions

Spencer rushes less than Ware but people are vastly overstating the difference.

Spencer rushed the passer about six to seven snaps less per game compared to Ware.

Of course, that is a significant amount. But when you take into account that Ware often faced double teams (or more) when he rushed, I don’t think the proper conclusion is that Anthony is getting overly criticized.

Let’s also keep in mind that Spencer got two of his sacks while playing pass coverage (one versus Arizona, one versus NYJ). So, in about six to seven less snaps a game against much easier pass protection, Spencer got around 15 sacks less than D-Ware. He also got just one more sack than Victor Butler, someone who rushed significantly less than Spencer did. In no way can you look at those numbers and say that Spencer could be considered a good pass rusher.

Also, since people on this site seem to be fond of quoting Rob Ryan’s support of Spencer, consider this quote (hat-tip to OCC, who posted it earlier:

“If you’re going to play a 3-4 defense and don’t have outside backers, you don’t have a defense,” said 3-4 expert Rob Ryan. “You’ve got to be able to set the edge and rush a passer. It starts with them. They’ve got to be playmakers. That’s what you get in a 3-4.”

Do people really consider Anthony Spencer a playmaker in any sense of the word?

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Creasy729 on Jan 20, 2012 3:34 PM CST up reply actions

Never would say that he's anywhere close to D Ware.

Just that he isn’t as bad as most seem to think. Butler’s sole role when he comes in is to rush the passer. I think he is better than Spencer at doing so, but Spencer has served the Cowboys decently as run stopper and pass defender. I’m not saying a dynamic pass rusher wouldn’t be better, I’m saying we could do worse. We need to be careful that we don’t actually downgrade the position by writing him entirely off. I agree, he is a much better fit as a 4-3 DE, but while better as a 3-4 OLB, Ellis was better as a 4-3 DE too.

Wish you were here and comfortably numb.

by pfloyd1 on Jan 20, 2012 4:04 PM CST up reply actions

I never said he was terrible or anything. It seems as if everyone thinks saying we should let a player walk is

equal to being overly critical of that player. Of course, many of those same people then complain about the contracts we have handed out to players who are average or disappointing.

The fact is that Spencer is average. That’s it. He was a first round pick and even you admit that he will have value to other teams. What does that suggest? That suggests that he will get a contract not reflective of his average play. Why resign him and further stop the progress of this organizational change? We want Dallas to evolve and yet seem way too content to simply resign Spencer because he is a known quantity.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Creasy729 on Jan 20, 2012 4:09 PM CST up reply actions

Also, do you consider a playmaker in any sense of the word?

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Creasy729 on Jan 20, 2012 4:10 PM CST up reply actions

Spencer that is

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Creasy729 on Jan 20, 2012 4:10 PM CST up reply actions

No, I certainly wouldn't hand a contract like the Gmen gave Canty or like we gave Rat or T New.

He is not worth overpaying to keep. If you could get him cheaply assuming though, there’s no other option in FA, then consider keeping him only because one never can predict how the draft will evolve or whether the potential draftee will pan out. Yes, he would be a progress stopper if we overpaid him and he played instead of a younger guy with potential, but we tend to bring younger guys along slowly on D rather than throw them to the wolves.

I guess, I’m hedging my bets, because of the sequence of FA followed by the draft.

Wish you were here and comfortably numb.

by pfloyd1 on Jan 20, 2012 4:21 PM CST up reply actions

Hey I mean if he wants to sign a 2 year/$6M year deal where his job is not guaranteed

than I could live with that. I wouldn’t count on him signing one like that though.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Creasy729 on Jan 20, 2012 5:18 PM CST up reply actions

You know what

I never looked at it that way, as far as scheme…maybe that’s one reason why the recent 4-3 talks.

by Bermystar on Jan 20, 2012 3:45 PM CST up reply actions

Spencer is a 4-3 DE playing out of position

That’s why he’s got to go. Let a 4-3 team pick him up.

Silly draft pick by Wade Phillips who loved taking on all these failed project linebackers who never played their assigned linebacker spot (Spencer, Brandon Williams, Jason Williams)

by Blue Eyed Devil on Jan 20, 2012 8:03 PM CST up reply actions

So, who would you consider to be a better playmaker for that position

Why not get a DE that can penetrate to help with that, so your telling me the DL should only be run stuffers

Free Agent DE from ARZ Campbell would fit, that whole side wasnt good from DE Coleman and CB Newman but you blame Spencer, then waste a draft pick on another OLB hoping he would be better, no my friend, upgrade your DE and CB

I never said i was right, but i aint never wrong

by Solonupe03 on Jan 20, 2012 3:45 PM CST reply actions

I didn't say anything about DE.

That is a complete non-sequitur.

If you want to talk about DE though, I would be more than happy too. I dislike that unit as well. In my opinion, we have four guys on the D-line worth keeping. Those would be Hatcher, Ratliff, Lissemore, and Brent. Spears and Coleman? Have fun packing. Both Spears and Coleman offer nothing when it comes to rushing the passer, and if I had my way would never have been signed to begin with. I would much rather have taken their combined salaries and signed Cullen Jenkins last year. Alas, time machines aren’t available yet.

Regardless, I love Calais Campbell. The guy is a great pass rushing DE and clearly we could have a good to great defensive line if you had Ratliff, Hatcher, and Campbell as your DE’s with Brent and (someone to be added) at NT. I only pray that he hits free agency.

My question though, is why does it have to be one or the other? Why can’t we address both? You seem to suggest that if we take an OLB high, that the option to upgrade DE goes out the window. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

My overall goal is to sign probably two or three free agents that can hopefully make an impact. You could go for Super Mario or Cliff Avril at OLB. You could go DE with Campbell or maybe Jason Jones. You could go interior lineman. You could go after Cortland Finnegan. Regardless, we have a bunch of holes, and admitting that OLB is one, doesn’t mean we can’t fill the others. Mix FA and the draft and we could address DE, OLB, and CB, all while letting Spencer find some other fanbase to continually tease.

If I had a nickel for every Super Bowl the Eagles have won, I would have zero nickels.

by Creasy729 on Jan 20, 2012 4:06 PM CST up reply actions

That makes pefect sense Creasy, ie.,if you solve the problem in FA.

Wish you were here and comfortably numb.

by pfloyd1 on Jan 20, 2012 4:25 PM CST up reply actions

I would like to go more multiple on defense, we will stay in the 3-4 because thats the security blanket of our defense and switching would set us behind

I never said i was right, but i aint never wrong

by Solonupe03 on Jan 20, 2012 3:52 PM CST reply actions

3-4 D I think is here to stay as long as RR is the DC.

Wish you were here and comfortably numb.

by pfloyd1 on Jan 20, 2012 4:30 PM CST up reply actions

one year deal at best

this crop of potential pass rushing OLBs is weak,

by ratware on Jan 20, 2012 8:31 PM CST reply actions

true

But I really want Mosqibluiflagerschnitzle from Troy, Poe, and a Cover Corner for the D and a true Center for the O. I also want a Return Specialist!

"Fear the Star" -A WISE Man!

by mho on Jan 21, 2012 2:20 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions

Hahahahaha

Mosqibluiflagerschnitzle

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

"Meanwhile, like a bitter wine, Philadelphia’s jealousy fermented in the dark cellars of pride and resentment. With no playoff hopes of their own, Eagles fans turned towards hating the Cowboys." Steve Sabol, NFL films

by Nickthegrip on Jan 21, 2012 11:17 AM CST reply actions