Just Can't Keep Quiet Anymore
by Starred4Life on Jan 21, 2012 12:40 PM CST
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Been reading a lot of articles lately on what this team needs to get better. Most have been centered around talent infusions, scheme changes and position groups improving. Deep down, I believe we all know that's a bunch of bull.
This team, quite simply, just has to get tougher--mentally, physically, in every conceivable way. The Giants are a prime example of a tough, tough team. What'd they have this year, 7 major injuries to their defense this year? And yet where do they find themselves--in contention yet again. You can't accomplish that without a certain mindset--Coughlin simply, unequivocally, WILL NOT TOLERATE anything else.
The Cowboys, Garrett, the Joneses--they're just soft, period. I don't know how or why they became soft, all I know is they just are. You don't consistently underachieve the way this team has, you don't consistently--comically--find ways to lose games the way we do, without being physically and mentally soft. Sure, Garrett can preach the Jimmy-speak or preach this Jimmy-mindset, but, at the end of the day he's still Jason Garrett--he just doesn't have that certain "it-ness" this team needs to have that toughness instilled in them. Believe me, it PAINS me to admit that, but I think if we were all honest with ourselves, we'd admit the same thing about Garrett. I agree, it'd be stupid to fire him as he just started, but Garrett to me just represents another wasted four years of searching for the right guy to turn this team around.
We don't need a genius because you can't think your way into toughness. We don't need a scheme, as you can't scheme your way to toughness. And we know talent doesn't equal toughness, just look at the two team representing the NFC this weekend--Dallas probably has more "talent" than both of those teams combined. Even if you don't agree with that statement, they at least have as much as either the Giants or 49ers.
We just need to get tougher somehow. I've always thought that started with the head coach, but we don't have that guy. I'd love to hear others' thoughts on this--am I way out in left field here?
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We seriously just don't have talent
You can make legitimate arguments in regards to toughness and whatnot, but when it comes down to it, we seriously are just not talented in the correct places. Our lines lack talent. We’re built from the outside. It’s been this way since 2007, and it’s why we consistently lose these playoff games. You take a team with a good defensive line, and it becomes a toss-up. This is why we struggled so much in games like Miami and Arizona this year. Our defensive line lost any ability to get consistent pressure down the stretch this year, especially when we ended up facing competent offenses, and our secondary is still devoid of any sort of ballhawk that can afford to take a risk. New England and Green Bay had terrible defenses, but they were both near or at the top in terms of forcing turnovers. We aren’t talented enough to be able to get these tunovers.
So, if it's truly a talent deficit
How do we explain the Giants and 49ers’ in the NFC Championship game tomorrow? You really believe they’re more talented than us? Certainly some areas—some perhaps crucial—but I just don’t buy that the talent divide is enough to keep the Cowboys from winning game after crucial game
by Starred4Life on Jan 21, 2012 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
It's your quote....
Certainly some areas—some perhaps crucial
Correct. The Giants are more talented than the Cowboys, on both the offensive and defensive lines. Those are crucial areas, and those are and were the differences in the Cowboys Giants game. That means that the talent divide from the Cowboys to the Giants is pretty immense.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
"Meanwhile, like a bitter wine, Philadelphia’s jealousy fermented in the dark cellars of pride and resentment. With no playoff hopes of their own, Eagles fans turned towards hating the Cowboys." Steve Sabol, NFL films
They are more talented than us in the trenches, and that hides their lack of talent elsewhere
I don’t really think the Giants are very talented, but their defensive line is once again leading them in the playoffs. Where there are now has a lot to do with how they’ve matched up with opponents thus far. Their defensive line absolutely destroyed Atlanta’s offense. Their offense only had to manage the game, and Atlanta’s defense isn’t very good either. New York’s offensive line mostly had their way with Atlanta’s defense, and the Giants proceeded to pound it effectively despite coming in to the game dead last in rushing yards. A lot of that has to do with their line not being injured anymore, which got them back to being competent enough. Again, Atlanta is just not a very good team.
Against Green Bay, the Giants matched up well again. Their defensive line challenged the Packers, again, and it led to eventual mistakes. Of course, Green Bay was just completely off. They lost their rhythm, and the Giants’ defensive line capitalized with plays. All their offense had to do was manage the game against the league’s worst defense.
he 49ers are so much more talented than we are on defense that it isn’t even funny. Justin Smith, Patrick Willis, and Navarro Bowman are absolutely elite. Carlos Rogers is among the best. Ray McDonald, Issac Sopoaga, and Ahmad Brooks are good players. Aldon Smith is a terror coming off of the edge, role player or not. Their only weak point are their inconsistent safeties, but that doesn’t even matter with their pass rush and the play of Rogers. Nearly all of these players would outright start on our team. Of players that we have that are better, we have DeMarcus Ware and Jay Ratliff. Mike Jenkins is better than their #2 but not #1, and Gerald Sensabaugh is better than their safeties, but he’s only above average. Our defensive talent is brought down regardless. Ratliff is bottled in the middle, Ware is ran by a massive pocket or chipped, and our secondary easily picked on. The 49ers, on the other hand, take advantage of the double teams that happen with players that are good enough to take advantage of single matchups. Because of this, their defense is immensely good, and all their offense has to do is manage the game. Vernon Davis is an immense receiving talent, and Frank Gore is a good feature back. Sure, they aren’t particularly that good on offense, but they don’t have to be. We, however, have to be, and our lack of interior line severely brings down all of our talent for the same exact reason our lack of talent on the defensive line does.
You talk about the Giants taking advantage of favorable matchups
But now think about the Cowboys.
Do they win every game in which they have the better matchups?
Nope. And that has to speak to the Giants will to win, which seems to be greater than the Cowboys this year.
Taking advantage of good matchups is not a guarantee in the NFL, especially with this team.
That's why I like JG
he wants to win in the trenches
"How 'Bout them Cowboys!"---Jimmy Johnson
"...and the Cowboys...STUN the Bills!"--ESPN MNF
I dunno Scientia, we can talk about talent...
…but at the end of the day, I think it’s a certain mental fortitude that help galvanize borderline talent into productive talent. The players you mention above (Smith, Rogers, Sogoaga) I think are prime examples of this. I think our similarly talented players (Spencer, Hatcher, Scandrick) would reach the same level of production if we had that ‘never, ever say die’ mindset as a football team. I certainly realize that what I just said is a completely subjective assertion, but it’s what I believe.
I just don’t think it’s an accident that the mentally tough teams (Pats, Steelers, Giants, etc.) can keep rotating in ‘talented’ after ‘talented’ players year after year. No one drafts that well. They make the talent, the talent doesn’t make them.
I just feel like the Cowboys keep waiting for the talent to make them.
by Starred4Life on Jan 22, 2012 12:54 AM CST up reply actions
Wrong...
Mental toughness only goes so far…General Patton was mentally tough, but do you think he is going to win in the trenches with his never say die attitude? No, because he doesn’t have the talent to win in the trenches. It is mental toughness paired with the talent to win. If you suck, you suck… It is what it is. My Aunt just beat breast cancer… she fought it for 2 years. I think she developed a mental toughness to beat her sickness. She had that fight at all cost attitude. Funny thing is, I don’t see her in the scouting reports for the Dallas Cowboys. Would you like to know why? She doesn’t have the talent to play…
F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...
It starts and ends in the trenches
I agree with you, a strong core is the foundation for a strong body. For too long now Dallas has neglected it’s midsection especially on the d-line. I love Ratliff he’s been great playing out of position all thees years and we’re lucky to hit on UDFA like that. But the FO seems to think we can replicate that fortune 4-5x on the d-line and when we do find one we do not retain them (not saying that we should have matched the offers that Canty and Bowen got). IDK but put me in the camp that says “the battle is won in the trenches”. A solid d-line makes average linebackers and secondary look good, giving the linebackers lanes to attack the run and freedom to make plays and a d-line that can push the pocket and pressure the QB without the blitz makes your secondary that much better. You can get by with average db’s and linebackers if you d-line is good “see Giants”. And same goes for the offense, a good offensive line can make an average running back look good and a good QB look great. Just my 2.
We don't have tough leaders (yet?)
Our best players are not leaders, in the sense of forcing the best out of their inferior teammates. Our coaches are trying to be leaders, but they are clumsy at it. Ditto for JJ.
As the old saying goes, some are born great (Ware, Smith, Dez), some achieve greatness (Romo, Free, Miles) and some have greatness trust upon them (JJ, JG, Ryan).
People can learn .. and the JJ, SJ, JG mission, put in motion years ago … can succeed. It’s not just one year away.
You can't quantify toughness
You can’t tell me how it correlates to winning. You can’t tell me how much toughness any team has. Only as a comparative statistic.
The reality is: The Giants have a much better defense than ours. Eli Regressed to the mean having an elite year after a horrible year.
On our side: Bad defense.
It’s really as simple as that. At least, that’s my opinion
I'm not saying Tony Romo is the reincarnation of the mythical Romulus. I'm just saying
Nope, you can't quantify it, but it's like porn...
you know it when you see it. And after watching what I have the last 5 years or so, I know I haven’t seen it. But I have a feeling when I watch tomorrow’s games, I’ll come away thinking I’ve seen a ton of it.
by Starred4Life on Jan 21, 2012 3:20 PM CST up reply actions
It's because they have better talent in the areas...
They also adjusted their scheme to fit what they are trying to do. We didn’t. I’m sorry, Terrance Newman regressed toward the end of the year. I don’t think we where getting the pressure that we needed and it exposed our weakness in the secondary again. Watch, when we add more talent to the areas that need it, our wins go up.
F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...
On the Top 10 list f what is wrong with DAL
Talent is 1 through 5, we have simply over-estimated and under-resourced complete units. Our opponents relentlessly and in the case of our Division rivals, routinely exploit this.
Giants weren’t so tough when they lost badly to the Redskins at home, with their season on the line, then beat 2 Pretenders – the Jets and DAL to reach the playoffs.
'I have wasted Time and Time doth waste me'
Jerry Jones as Richard II - Act 5, Scene 5
yeah, you're way out in left field
Garrett is tough minded, don’t kid yourself. This team simply needs more talent at certain positions, its that simple
In Romo we Trust
i can see where starred is coming from
yeah are o-line was terrible and our secondary was even worse. These are the problems this team has always had.Garrett cut Gurode, and has yet to address the secondary.Who knows, Garrett could be the right guy for the job.I just think we’d be better off with a coach like jeff fisher.Under jason this team hasn’t shown any improvment in the last year and a half.I hope i’m wrong, go cowboys!
Jeff Fisher had 6 winning seasons in 17 years
"How 'Bout them Cowboys!"---Jimmy Johnson
"...and the Cowboys...STUN the Bills!"--ESPN MNF
man it KILLS me when people call Fisher a great coach.
6 in 17, and completely screwed the V Young situation. How he is the “it” coach baffles me…
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by KD Drummond on Jan 23, 2012 10:33 PM CST up reply actions
Completely agree
The St. Louis Rams are going to be disappointed
I'm not saying Tony Romo is the reincarnation of the mythical Romulus. I'm just saying
It comes down to the trenches.
So you are telling me the mentally tough superior big bad Giants past two years last season collapse were bcause of….?
2009 they started 5-0 finished 8-8 missed
2010 they started 6-2 finished 10-6 missed
Yeah, its a game of parity. If the Cowboys won week 17 they’d be calling to fire coughlin and everyone else for collapsing 3 straight years.
"Obviously, I felt like if I ran into my lineman there it was going to help the play" ~Tony Romo
the giants have their own issues
i think the way we lose games stems from our hc.Coughlin is a proven winner and with all of the injuries his team suffered speaks volumes about his coaching ability.I just find it weird that all of a sudden this team has no talent.
What does that even mean? Proven Loser? The guy won a Super Bowl.
So many sour grapes around BTB today
Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
I would love to show you the finer points to a muay thai clinch whipped knee to the face seanrude
by matt575 on Nov 22, 2011 3:09 AM EST
It's certainly not 'no talent'
It’s uneven distribution of talent – Stars & Scrubs. Case in point – how do you field a Defense with D Ware and A Ball, an O with T Smith and P Costa? Because you lack a comprehensive approach from a fundamental strategy. All teams will have strengths and weaknesses, but DAL has too many Scrubs, and Past-their-Prime players.
'I have wasted Time and Time doth waste me'
Jerry Jones as Richard II - Act 5, Scene 5
I could not agree more about the lack of a comprehensive approach
This comprehensive approach you speak of is, in my opinion, a common ingredient among the consistently successful teams in the league. We seem to have no such approach.
by Starred4Life on Jan 22, 2012 1:00 AM CST up reply actions
This team is not mentally tough.
Losing 4 out of the last 5 games pretty much proves that. They do not have any leaders on this team with the fire in the belly, like the playmaker back in the day. Witten maybe the only one, but he cannot do everything.
They need to get some guys on this team that are nasty and have that will to take this team over the top.
Losing proves a team is not mentally tough?
Packers weren’t mentally tough? Colts were the least mentally tough team this year?
Losing doesn't
But coughing-up game after game in fourth quarters due to things like silly turnovers, icing your own kicker and an inability to make impactful plays proves that a team is mentally weak.
by Starred4Life on Jan 22, 2012 1:03 AM CST up reply actions
I get what you're trying to say LG,
but you honestly don’t see any trends with the Cowboys?
by Starred4Life on Jan 22, 2012 1:26 AM CST up reply actions
I think the problem is that you're just looking at the flashy positions
with Romo, DWare, and WR, where we do have more talent than the 49ers and Giants, but in the trenches, we do not. JG wants to win the trenches and get back to that philosophy, as last year’s draft will show you.
"How 'Bout them Cowboys!"---Jimmy Johnson
"...and the Cowboys...STUN the Bills!"--ESPN MNF
That's a fair point
as I do agree that the ‘flashy’ positions do tend to mask deficiencies in other areas. But I really do think our front seven is good enough, as is our QB, our WR/TEs and think our O-line is sufficient.
Every team has weaknesses, doesn’t it? Why does it seem the Cowboys have to ‘out talent’ every team in order to beat them? I think that’s a symptom of that lack of toughness I speak of. Some teams (IMO the 49ers, Giants, Ravens) just seem to consistently win in spite of their talent.
Again, the good teams make the talent, not the other way around.
by Starred4Life on Jan 22, 2012 1:09 AM CST up reply actions
But don't get it twisted
Our O-line does need improvement on the interior, and our secondary is pathetic. Just don’t want it to seem like I have a delusional view of the talent on this roster. We’re in need of more, just like most teams.
by Starred4Life on Jan 22, 2012 1:10 AM CST up reply actions
Our O line is sufficient? Tell that to Romo's rib and his throwing hand. It's not sufficient
unless you want to spend another season watching Romo have to make something out of nothing at best, and, at worst, sidelined again.
I think we'd all agree Romo is injury prone
Pointing to his injuries as a metric of our offensive line is incomplete analysis IMO. He’s too small, he’s just going to get hurt, that’s all. It’s not a knock on him at all, not in any way. But when your as slight as he is, and play the position he does, you’re going to be on the sidelines a fair amount of time.
by Starred4Life on Jan 22, 2012 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
I think you'd be wrong on that agreement. Injury prone is when you have repeated
hamstring injuries or bad knees. There is nothing inherent in Romo’s conditioning or physical make up that makes him more prone broken bones when he’s hit by a mack truck. As I’ve argued elsewhere, unless you’re saying he has osteoporosis, he’s not injury prone because of his frame. Big Ben is injured quite a bit; do you attribute that to his small frame? You’re just apologizing for poor line play. Interesting that the Cowboys agree, since they’re in the process of revamping that “sufficient line.”
Honestly I don't think it's toughness
A bunch of our guys played even when they got hurt. To me that’s tough. I think our problems is talent. You can teach a guy proper technique but if the guy opposite of him is stronger, faster, quicker, etc. he’s gonna lose his match up more often than not.
You mention that the Giants had a lot of injuries but were still able to play well with replacement players, I wouldn’t call that tough. To me, that is their team having more depth than we do.
Just let it go.
ScottB1985- you will never convince individuals like Starred4life that toughness, leadership, will to win, etc. has very little to do with success. :) Cowboys are too feminine! :)
Starred4life- like porn? Ok private parts and tongues rubbing together=porn. What do you see that equals soft? Getting beat = soft? Quit with the metaphysical crap. Might as well argue they need to get better haircuts. It makes as much sense. What do you mean by soft? If you start to define it, soft pretty much means: not good enough. Duh!!!!
You're right LG, toughness is tough to define
The “you know it when you see it” porn political reference probably dated myself a bit there ;). I’ll try my best to define it, but as you pointed out, it is a bit ‘metaphysical.’ But hey, completely subjective and heavily opinionated debate is the whole reason Dave created this blog, right? Hahahaha…
I think Dallas is soft because they’ve only won one meaningful game in 5 years (Philly playoff win).
I think Dallas is soft because of their comical inability to close-out games (silly turnovers, icing their own kicker, incompetent clock management, etc.)
I could go on and on in great (and painful) detail, but the two bullet points above pretty much encapsulate them all. Just keep in mind I’m mostly speaking to the lack of mental toughness, here. I’m not real sure about the physical toughness piece…the fact that you’re playing in the NFL means your pretty tough in my book—so that’s a given for everyone.
Mentally tough teams close-out games on a consistent basis; Dallas seemingly invents new ways to lose on a weekly basis.
by Starred4Life on Jan 22, 2012 1:23 AM CST up reply actions
I sure appreciate your explanation why they lose meaningful games.
I just believe it is likely they don’t have good enough players throughout the roster. Romo and the other awesome players make the team good enough to have “meaningful games” in the first place, but not good enough to win “meaningful games”. I personally believe that they almost always beat the teams that aren’t as good as them, and almost always get beat by the teams that are likely better than them. Meaningful games, like playoff games, are more than likely to be against better teams. I think you can see the same thing from the patriots, they tend to lose when they play better teams—hadn’t won a playoff game since 07, finally beat the Bronco’s this year :); doesn’t mean they don’t have the toughness in the playoffs. If you look back at the schedule over the last 5 years, you’ll see that the meaningful games—December and Playoffs— were against equal or better teams overall. The Giants, when they beat the Cowboys in the playoffs and this year, ended up pretty darn successful. I just firmly believe that whatever toughness you talk about lies within individual players and goes hand in hand with talent, not some overall collective phenomenon for an entire team. To me, ENOUGH tough players makes a tough team.
by LG4DC on Jan 22, 2012 1:46 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't underestimate the power of Romo
the Cowboys weren’t talented at all this year. Ryan and Romo made them appear talented and thus one get’s the idea that they found ways to lose when in essence they miraculously were competitive. Hopefully we will get to see Romo behind a solid protection someday, and a d-line that can generate CONSISTENT pressure, and then we’ll see “toughness”.
Rec'd
Couldn’t have said it better
I'm not saying Tony Romo is the reincarnation of the mythical Romulus. I'm just saying
Just maybe I could have. :)
Maybe they’ve been mentally tough all along and actually out-performing their talent level. There, more concise. :)
Romo is his own worst enemy, he makes them look better than what they are, then gets most the blame for their failures.
Rob Ryan didn't come through for us
Was he a bad coach?
Was it he didn’t have the talent to run his system?.
Or was it our defenses was devoid of talent?
there were three games out there we should have won the O lost one and the D couldn’t hold the lead in the others.
Now we have to hope Ryan can turn it around.He had a good D in Cleveland with little talent so hopefully he can do it next year.If I were the coach I would try to get all new players for the defensive backfield.At least we have to replace Newman with a shutdown corner and hope for improvement from the other players.
We could not pressure the QB much last year.If we can improve the pass rush it will cover some of the bad play in the secondary.
by TCB Orange Dino on Jan 21, 2012 11:43 PM CST reply actions
Starred, zing zing zing !!!!.It ain't HARD.
Dallas has been Pillsbury soft for years….you are 100% correct.. It begins at the top. The top in Dallas put the “W” in weak. The team has taken on the buffoonery of it’s gm.
They invent ways to lose. They crumble with playoff births on the line. It is the Dallas m.o.. Sadly, I maight add.
Ware is a great player but he doesn’t have the nastiness of L.T. or James Harrison. They aren’t any rally guys on this team. There are no Michael Irvin’s. One just one , I am begging for one nasty dispositioned player to be drafted by Dallas.
Erik Williams , Irvin , Haley all guys who wanted to facestomp you every game. We have marshmellows.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
Well paid marshmellows.
You’re exactly right, we need a junk yard dog or two.
by 1 proud terp on Jan 22, 2012 8:59 AM CST up reply actions
No offense...
But I totally disagree. I don’t think P. Willis is an a**hole, but I would take him in a minute. He is a game changer and a leader. Not by his rah, rah, speeches, but by his talent and execution. Some players inspire with speeches, some do it by play, some can do it by both. But whatever you do, do it and be consistent. Your thinking is arcaic that you need some junk yard enforcer to beat people up. Penalties and cheap hits don’t win you games, execution and scoring win you games. Get players that can execute and score, and then you will see that so called “mental toughness” come to the cowboys.
F**** establishing a culture, we need to establish dominance...
remember Dennis Green
when the Cards melted at the end of the game with the Bears.
Jason had 4 of those games this yr but instead of venting like Dennis did he went with we `ll continue to work to get better.
This team needs a swift kick in the pants, we needed a Dennis green moment.
You wanna crown them?
and what was his record again?
Or maybe Micheal Singletary…or Bill Parcells…
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 22, 2012 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
you don'e know what goes on in the locker room
When a coach bashes players in public, my first thought is he is deflecting criticism of himself. After all its not whether you win or lose, it’s who gets the blame. A mantra that could be the lead for many posts around here.
Remember Ronnie Lott and Phil Simms getting in each other's face ?
Because Lott said Simms was choking. Simms got in Lott’s face and it was on. Who do we have like that ? Who ? Toughness is a seen tangible. Dallas hasn’t had it in 15 years.
It’s not about dumb penalties or cheap shots. It’s blowing the other guy up to give your team an advantage or change the momentum.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 22, 2012 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
Don't know how that happened.
It should have finished with…..Lott was giving Simms the choke sign. Simms got in Lott’s face. Who do we have like that ? WHo ? On either side of the ball ?
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 22, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
Talent infusion. Period. It's easy to look for intangibles, but that's just ignoring the
elephant in the room. For too long, this team’s talent level has been overestimated, the worst offender being Jerry. I wish all they needed was bigger cojones. Those are cheaper to come by than better players on the O line, D line, and secondary.
They are confusing symptoms with the illness
Upgrade the talent and all this squishy, nebulous, impossible to refute BS goes away – toughness, leadership and attitude. May as well throw in sunspots too.
'I have wasted Time and Time doth waste me'
Jerry Jones as Richard II - Act 5, Scene 5
So TD, if talent always manages itself
Why do teams spend millions of dollars on coaches, strength and conditioning coaches, offseason strength and conditioning programs, mini-camps, etc.?
Take where you work: do all the employees there show up to work everyday frothing at the mouth to give 110% each and every day? Do they constantly encourage their peers? Of course not! I don’t know why we think athletes are so different…we always seem to put them in this class of “they don’t need that much direction.”
If recent behavior of these athletes have taught us anything, it’s that they need mooooore direction than most. And in reality, it’s not all their fault. Most have been coddled most of their lives, been held above the law for most of their lives and generally not held accountable for their actions by those around them.
To essentially say leadership and discipline on a football team is not nearly as important as talent is, in my opinion, laughable.
by Starred4Life on Jan 22, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
You're totally missing the point. No one is denying that discipline and leadership
are important. The team purged some lousy teammates when they got rid of TO, Pacman, and what’s-his-face with the gun problem. Every athlete is expected to participate in strength and conditioning programs, etc. Prove to me that the Cowboys do that less than other teams. You don’t know one way or another. Prove to me that Romo isn’t a tough SOB who provides leadership. The players say he does, and his performance this year, in the face of a lot of adversity was all I needed to see. How do you know that DWare isn’t a leader? Because he doesn’t jump around screaming? Keith Brooking did that, and everyone loved him a couple of years ago. But did his leadership make that D play better? Nope. Brooking himself said that that D has less talent than people thought. You know more than he does? How do you know that the players aren’t listening to Garrett? They say they are. He certainly strikes me as a high character, disciplined guy. So, what’s missing? Talent.
So, you want to argue that this team has lots of talent and just needs to be made up of better men? That’s cool. But I’ll take a talent infusion.
I think Romo is tough as nails
I think DWare is a leader, thought Brooking was great. Problem is, none of them are coaches. Players can certainly help instill discipline and leadership, but to me it comes from the top.
My only assertion here is that so far, Garrett’s teams have not demonstrated the required amount of mental toughness to become great.
by Starred4Life on Jan 22, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
And I misinterpreted your post
When you referred to leadership and discipline as “squishy” and “nebulous,” I thought you were dismissing their importance, my apologies.
by Starred4Life on Jan 22, 2012 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
I think all those attributes are overblown
Giants weren’t ‘tough’ when they lost 4 in a row, now all of a sudden they are? I think it’s a lot more likely that the Giants were successful, because DAL sucked twice in a matter of weeks. And we did so because our lesser talented players – especially along the OL and Defensive secondary was relentlessly exploited. Just like they are every season.
I’m not dismissing these attributes, but on the list of things that are wrong with DAL, talent is 1 through 5. when we’re done addressing that, I am all for the rest of it.
'I have wasted Time and Time doth waste me'
Jerry Jones as Richard II - Act 5, Scene 5
It's just an easy out to argue that if they were just better people, the Cowboys would
be winners. It’s a lot simpler to go for that idea as a quick fix than the harder road of talent evaluation and rebuilding.
Really, I think the talent part is the easier part of the equation
You get to draft talented players every year, get to acquire FAs every year. Absolutely, talent evaluation is tough business, as the average success rate currently suggests teams usually find about 2 starters for every 7 players drafted. But it’s still an annual opportunity.
To me, instilling that mental toughness is a much, much tougher task. You only get to hire coaches once every 4-5 years or so—and then to find that right coach, well, I don’t even know the statistics on that, but I would assert that it (the right coach) is much more difficult to find, just based on the infrequency of head coaching hires.
It’s part of why I think asking your players to instill that toughness to a football team is nearly impossible: you’re only getting 2 impact players out of 7 right off the top. To bank on one out of those two being that transcendent-type leader is extremely unlikely.
by Starred4Life on Jan 22, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Starred you hae it right. This teams idenity is one of waekness.
They strike fear into no one. It’s a marshmellow team. Look at the facestomping put on by the Eagles. You didn’t see any Cowboys trying to step up and lead. Nor their coach. He just stood there looking befuddled.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 22, 2012 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
(edit) have it right
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 22, 2012 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
Just can't agree that the talent infusion alone is going to work
But don’t get me wrong, I’m a HUGE “talent guy,” a wannabe draftnik—due in large part to the importance I place on talent. But at the end of the day, every player in the NFL is talented—to varying degrees for sure. But I think it’s that mental toughness—the intense focus and attention to detail, the will to go the extra mile every time to the point it’s second nature—that turns talented players into highly productive and/or great players.
To me, that (the will to go the extra mile) is not the normal human condition for most of us. Most of the time it needs to be instilled by an external force.
When you do get those rare combinations of talent and mental toughness, you get athletes like Rice, Jordan, Payton and E. Smith. But they’re so rare that ‘hoping’ for it is silly; it needs to instilled at every turn. That to me is what we lack—we seem to wait around for the talent to make our team.
I`m pretty pissed about the entire season
but since I want to completely punish myself some more and feel even worse go Giants go!!!!
Maybe others will feel as disgusted with me if the G-Men win the Super Bowl and hopefully some players and coaches and even a certain owner who likes to stare at himself in the mirror will get the same feelings that I have endured the entire season. All this crap about we don`t have the talent that the Giants do hahaha make me laugh we gave them this chance at immortality we should be in the playoffs but we choked the season away from start to finish.
The ONLY WAY we can turn this ship around is to start HATE losing as long as the organization tolerates losing we will never win.
Reasons to be pissed?
Cheap shot sucker Sapp says Ware can`t lead ants to a picnic…proven right yuck!
Cowboy hater (former Saints FB ,Can`t remember his name because was never that good) was predicting the Giants win the NFC East even with the Boys up 2 games!!! I laughed at his sorry ass that day and yet my team managed to prove him right…yuck.
Warren Moon says Blackmon is Dez with all his brain cells!!!how dare he? Dez gets in wrong place at the wrong time…real smart Dez.
Jerry critical of Moon for bad talking Dez after he bad mouthed Tebow? Jerry shut the F up.
The team entering 2011 as a franchise for 51? yrs had only blown 1 double digit 4 quarter lead managed to blow 4 of them this yr and all with a smile on their face after the game…yuck makes me sick!!!! watch Tom Brady after a loss!!! oh and btw the Patriots are still alive so while I`m at it go Patriots!!!! maybe Jerry will learn something by watching them go after another Super Bowl.
While back there was a post: What is your favorite Cowboy memory in 2011…I intended on replying but could n`t think of any memory that I really enjoyed but if I have to answer I guess it would be when the last game ended and we were put out of our misery.
LMAO ziggy...I agree with most of it except....
JJ learning anything
by 0k on Jan 22, 2012 2:05 PM CST up reply actions
K Brooking showed amazing leadership in his pregame exortations
Didn’t seem to do much. So if DWare starts giving ineffective, impassioned pregame speeches does that mean his leadership is improved?
Star – never said talent needs to coach itself, but I’ll take a talented introvert over an impassioned JAG any day
'I have wasted Time and Time doth waste me'
Jerry Jones as Richard II - Act 5, Scene 5
It's not about pregame rah rah....
It’s making momentum changing plays when thing look it’s bleakest. it’s about instill an attitude by how you play. Every team does the rah rah crap. That doesn’t make you tough. It’s face crunching the rb or qb on third and one.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 22, 2012 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
Here's a good example:
Stevan Ridley, easily the Patriots most explosive and talented RB, is inactive today for today’s AFC Championship Game. Is he hurt? No. While no one knows for sure, I’d bet my bottom dollar it’s due to his fumbling problems the last two games. Belicheck simply won’t tolerate mental lapses like that. Lots of coaches talk the talk about not tolerating that type of stuff, but few walk the walk. Benching your most talented RB in the most crucial game of the season is walking the walk—IMO it’s that kind of follow through that instills toughness (from demanding it) throughout your team.
It’s why mental toughness needs to come from the top. Players simply can’t bench players or inactivate players. Sure, they can holler and scream and give impassioned speeches, but players can tune that out. But ALL players want to play (how else do you get on TV?)—that’s the one remaining form of currency they still value.
Just for fun: let’s put the Cowboys in this situation. Insert Murray (or Felix, if you wish) for Ridley. How do you think the Cowboys handle this situation? Is Murray or Felix activated for today’s game?
Ziggy if not careful you will be accused of being a Giants fan.
Or a Skins fan , or an Eagles fan. You couldn’t possibly be a Dallas fan with talk like that.
Ziggy losing doesn’t bother Jerry. It’s obvious . He loves winning but he doesn’t hate losing. Everything you said has been proven correct except the Dez thing. Blackmon hasn’t played yet. However I do get your drift.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
makes me sick to my stomach that
the Giants are still in contention for the Super Bowl because we let them get there. I hope it makes Jerry and company sick as well but I fear that`s not the case. Romo probably in Mexico and Jerry in front of the mirror.
if the giants do win maybe coach starved teams will gut their coaching staff and leave them in shambles
by 0k on Jan 22, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
I may be the only one, but in the past 5 years, how many times when watching big
games did you feel like the cowboys were going to choke the game away, something crazy was going to happen, or we just blow a lead etc… These core group of players other than Witten do not have the killer instinct. It just seems that they find more ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. You can make excuses about a lack of talent all you want, but the bottom line is, teams across the league do not have every position manned by an all pro.
This team needs an infusion of some players like Hayley who would rip your heart out if he could. In attempt to get rid of all the problem children, have we imported to many nice guys?
Toughness
is what a team has after they win. Soft is what you call a team when the team loses. They are little more than different labels for “winner” or “loser” with little meaning other than that.
I gues the Packers, Niners, and Saints are all soft too. Ditto for the Steelers and the Ravens.
If the Cowboy’s defense could have held Eli once in the last 6 minutes of the first game, Coughlin would have most likely been out of a job by now. The “tough” Giants finished the regular season 3-5 (yet another late-season collapse for the Giants under the Coughlin era) and the fans were calling for his head. The talking heads of the NY sport’s radio world were speculating whether the Giants would fire him or whether he would just retire.
Do I think some players on this team are soft? Yes. I can point to just about the whole secondary as players that seem to avoid contact. However, I would never paint the whole team “soft” with such a broad brush as you are painting them.
Then how do you explain
How the cowboys have found ways to consistently blow games over the last several years and consistently find creative new ways to lose 4th quarter leads?
I’m not being sarcastic, just curious because you have to admit that the cowboys are doing something wrong and the giants are doing something right.
after 57 minutes we were up by 12 pts
I`m not so sure we lost because the G-Men are better than us so why did we lose?
If the G-Men win the Super Bowl they can thank us for it.
Yeah ...
the cowboys are doing something wrong and the giants are doing something right.
all the Cowboys need to do is play teams with 2nd string kick returners that put the ball on the ground twice for them every game and leave the Cowboys with great field position. I dont know how the Giants figured out how to do that, but that is one thing the Cowboys could emulate from the Giants
/sarcasm off
by Conn Cowboy on Jan 23, 2012 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
Dude whatever
You must be Wade Phillips in disguise. You’re right, the cowboys are the better team and the giants are lucky losers who keep stumbling over super bowl rings.
Great analysis.
you can't argue with this clown - he's convinced that the Cowboys have a better team than the Giants
and his answer is that the better team doesn’t always win…
well – if we’re better than the Giants and theyre in the show – i guess we really don’t need to do anything this offseason and hope we catch a couple of breaks next year….
Giants simply arent any better than the Cowboys and thats simply a fact - Terry
The Giants are NOT better than the Cowboys...thats the reality - Terry
Well I wouldn't say Dallas is Better...
But I will say that Dallas is equal in Talent to the Giants in Many regards, but the Giants managed to get “lucky” for lack of a better term.
Which is why they are going for another Superbowl and Dallas has the 14th pick….
Here’s a theoretical play from 2010: Snap. Tony takes 7 step drop. Tony looks left at Miles, who is doubled, and looks right to where Roy Williams should be…but instead sees Colombo on his back and a Defensive End foaming at the mouth jumping over Marc’s carcass. Tony proceeds to run like hell and look for Witten
-by CotySaxman on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM PDT
Now, if somebody doesn’t agree with that, that’s cool. I also don’t agree with the fact that I don’t have $10 million in my bank account. But the fact that I don’t agree with it doesn’t make it any less true.
by One.Cool.Customer on Dec 23, 2010 12:00 AM PST
by I am Ironman!!! on Jan 24, 2012 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
LOL @ "lucky"
Crunch time they turned it on. Dallas withered . Again. They have a d line. We have marshmellows. Football is a game of inches. Capitalizing on opportunities is what good teams do. Dallas doesn’t do that. Give the Gmen their credit. They deserve it.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 25, 2012 5:52 AM CST up reply actions
Let's hear yours
Oh …. that’s right, you don’t have an analysis.
Tell me how the Giants are doing things right.
remember you telling us about the Giants “will to win.” What happened to the Giants’ will to win when they lost twice to the Redskins this year? What about the other 5 games they lost? What happened about their win to win there?
There isn’t a “great” team in the NFL these days. Every team is flawed. This is why a team that goes 3-5 down the stretch and barely squeeks into the playoffs is in the Super Bowl. This is why a team with, hands down, one of the worst defenses in the league is the other team in the Super Bowl.
You don’t realize that you cannot judge whether one team is better than another just on a single game or even a couple of games. The Giants are not a better team than the Packers. The Broncos are not a better team than the Steelers. The best team doesn’t always win in the NFL.
Let me repeat that — the best team doesn’t always win in the NFL. There were only two games this entire year where the Cowboys were out of the game — both times against Philly and the second game didn’t count because it was little more than a glofied exhibition game that had no meaning.
The way I read things around here, it was as if we were talking about the Bucs or the Rams.
oh boy - should i engage you?? sure - lets go bro
OL – Giants (better)
DBs – Giants (marginally better)
DL – Giants (landslide)
QB – toss up – although tough to argue with anybody who says Manning is better
RBs – toss up – assuming Murray is healthy…i like our guys better
WRs – again a toss up – i like our guys but Cruz may have tilted things in Giants favour
TE – Cowboys
coaching – Giants – no contest
so let me ask you a question….week #17 Cowboys at Giants…going into that game – did you really feel it was a 50/50 propostion?? you really felt like we had as good of a chance at winning that game that NY had?
Giants simply arent any better than the Cowboys and thats simply a fact - Terry
The Giants are NOT better than the Cowboys...thats the reality - Terry
point please? i dont understand
Giants simply arent any better than the Cowboys and thats simply a fact - Terry
The Giants are NOT better than the Cowboys...thats the reality - Terry
I honestly did, but I agree with your assessment
before week 16 though, when the Giants were on their usual December tailspin, here is how they would’ve looked (Giants really racked up the sacks after this point)
OL – Dallas (Giants line was awful first 3 months)
DBS – slight edge to Giants
front 7 – Dallas (Giants were banged up, ripped apart all season)
QB – toss up, maybe slight edge to Eli
RB – toss up
WRs – Giants Cruz was making huge game turning plays all year
coaching – even Giants were about to be fired.
This looks an awful lot like the 2007 season too.
Lets not forget context here. Nobody knew whether the Giants were going to make a run liek 2007 or collapse like 2006, 2008-2010.
good point, every team does have flaws, and that's where
the intangibles come in. Mental toughness takes you over the top in pressure situations. The ability to focus under duress, everyone saw last night how Manning got absolutely abuse by the 49er’s D. Hit after hit, but he still made a huge play to Maningham.
Anyone that argues that the Giants are not a mentally tough team is delusional.
Players are mentally tough -- not teams.
Are you telling me that Romo isn’t mentally tough?
Anyone that argues that the Giants are not a mentally tough team is delusional.
Yeah … those 7 losses they had during the regular season must have been flukes. Maybe their mental toughness was decompressing at that time.
Yeah … that same “mentally tough” team that gave up 49 points to the Saints and were being called out in the press for quiting. The same “mentally tough” defense that gave up 121 points over a 3 game stretch (that’s over 40 points/game!!).
Eli, in weeks 15 and 16 against the Jets/Washington, was a combined 32 for 67 (<50%) with 1 TD and 4 ints (that 1 TD was the 99 yard miracle to Cruz). Imagine what this blog would do if Romo put up those numbers in 2 straight games — I think it might explode.
OK -- I'll give you credit for making the attempt
OL – Giants (better)
RBs – toss up – assuming Murray is healthy…i like our guys better
Dallas rushed for 1807 yards this season at 4.4 a clip.
The Giants were last in the league at 1427 yards at 3.5 a clip (with just 3 more carries).
I don’t like our offensive line, but you have to say the difference between those numbers are more than just the difference in running backs. Come on, the Giants were putrid running the ball, and running is more about the offensive line than anything. The Giants O-line gave up less sacks, and that is definitely an area of improvement for the Cowboys.
DBs – Giants (marginally better)
Dallas gave up 244 passing yards/game (23yrd in the NFL) and got 15 interceptions
Giants gave upon 255 passing yards/game (29th in the league) and got 20 interceptions
I would evaluate them a tossup. Also, if you are going to give credit for the Giants having a better defensive line (I don’t disagree on the defensive line, but the Cowboys still were 7th in the league in sacks this year), then you have to say that Giants DBs played particular bad considering the pressure that was being brought up front.
Staying with the defense, the Cowboys were 7th in the league against the rush at 99 yards/game while Giants were 19th in the league at 121 yards/game. You have to give the Cowboys’ defensive line some credit there as well. I noticed you didn’t mention the linebackers (touch to compare a 3-4 to a 4-3). Regardless, I think the Giant’s LBs are really weak.
QB – toss up – although tough to argue with anybody who says Manning is better
Well … tough for some people.
Romo had at higher completion rate (66% to 61% for Eli). Romo was 3-1 TDs to INTs while Manning wasn’t even 2-1. Manning threw more times during a game and had a higher total yardage. Eli also had a slightly higher yards/average. It is arguable. However, I get to see a lot more Giants games than you do, and Eli is more than capable of throwing out stinkers of games that would get Romo run out of Dallas.
WRs – again a toss up – i like our guys but Cruz may have tilted things in Giants favour
I like our WRs. I think Myles, when healthy, is better than Cruz. I also like Bryant over Hicks and Laurent Robinson (the Cowboys better re-sign him) over Willingham. What I don’t like is that we didn’t take enough shots downfield this year. I think Myles and Dez would abuse any CBs in a jump ball situation (if it came to it), but we were reluctant to let them try.
coaching – Giants – no contest
I have to laugh at that one. I think the jury is still out on the Cowboy’s staff. I think Garrett is smart, but I don’t think he is very innovative. I need to see what Ryan can do with this team with his guys, his assistant coaches, and enough time to put everything together. As for the Giants coaching staff, listening to New York sport’s talk radio, Coughlin is always on the verge of getting fired. If the Giants didn’t make the playoffs, he would probably be out of a job today. Trust me, there are a lot of people in New York that don’t want Coughlin.
All that being said, I like our team. It can certainly use some improvement, but the Giants aren’t a clear-cut better team than the Cowboys. They may have been better for two games, but going forward, I like where we stand.
great - then no changes necessary
Giants simply arent any better than the Cowboys and thats simply a fact - Terry
The Giants are NOT better than the Cowboys...thats the reality - Terry
dude - your rebuttal is 95% opinion and 5% stats....
its actually laughable…better suited to DC.com
but thanks for giving me credit – i really appreciate it.
i like ice cream….you going to argue with that??
Giants simply arent any better than the Cowboys and thats simply a fact - Terry
The Giants are NOT better than the Cowboys...thats the reality - Terry
Manning is arguably better than Romo...
you pull some stats out of your @ss and make a smartass comment…
if you like – i will have 10 guys from Buffalo Rumbings come over here and argue to the death that Jim Kelly was a better QB than Aikman…they’ll have all the stats to back themselves up….i’m thinking that they wont convince you – and they’ll never convince me
the fact is – Manning has the bling…and going for a second…Romo has nothing aside from a win over a fading Eagles team….and – according to you – Manning did it with an inferior team than what Romo had….so explain that
dude – i’m not saying that i would rather have Manning – i’m saying you cant argue with someone that says Manning is better…
Coughlin had success with the Jags, he’s got the bling and going for a second…. He’s always on the verge of getting fired? Who cares? What’s your point?? Garrett has zero track record and showed this year that he was in over his head – maybe in a few years we can compare the two – at this point its no contest. Garrett gets an incomplete at best. The “ice ice bailey” TO fiasco was something even a high school coach wouldn’t have done….the limp dick 3 and out in the Pats game?? give me a break….i’m not saying that garrett wont turn into a great coach – but right now Coughlin is a proven commodity. As far as Ryan is concerned – if he wasn’t fat, with long hair and was Rex’s brother – you wouldnt even know who he was. He’s the Paris Hilton of DCs…he created this persona with very little results behind it in Cleve and Oak….i recognize that it may be because he hasn’t had great talent to work with….but its a lot of sizzle with very little steak
Austin over Cruz??? Please – another opinion…Cruz just bested Austin’s best year (2009)…not to mention Austin has been in the league for 6 years and has gone downhill since he signed that big contract. And now he dates hollywood bimbos and shows up to camp out of shape and misses half the season with a sore vagina – he took a page out of Romo’s book there….
Giants simply arent any better than the Cowboys and thats simply a fact - Terry
The Giants are NOT better than the Cowboys...thats the reality - Terry
You've got issues
“you pull some stats out of your @ss and make a smartass comment”
Actually, I had the nfl.com stats for Manning and Romo within the post, but it wasn’t formatting correctly. Regardless, care to point what stats were incorrect? No … I didn’t think so.
if you like – i will have 10 guys from Buffalo Rumbings come over here and argue to the death that Jim Kelly was a better QB than Aikman.
Sure, its debatable. The Cowboys were a better team, as a whole, than the Bills. As such, Aikman had a better supporting cast so you are not comparing apples to apples.
the fact is – Manning has the bling
So does Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, Jim McMahon and a few more that wouldn’t make anybody’s list of top-50 QBs in NFL history.
i’m not saying that i would rather have Manning – i’m saying you cant argue with someone that says Manning is better
Why wouldn’t you rather have Manning if you cannot argue against somebody that Manning is better. Dude … you’ll argue about anything with anybody — so don’t tell me I cannot argue that Romo is a better QB.
Coughlin had success with the Jags
So why did the Jags get rid of him?
He’s always on the verge of getting fired? Who cares? What’s your point??
Great (or even good) coaches aren’t always on the verge of getting fired. I thought that was pretty self-evident.
Austin over Cruz??? Please – another opinion…Cruz just bested Austin’s best year (2009)…
Austin only started 9 games in 2009 and still put up 1320 yards and 11 TDs. Not bad considering he had about 5 passes caught the first 4 games of the season.
has gone downhill since he signed that big contract
Injuries happen to football players. Ever notice that?
now he dates hollywood bimbos and shows up to camp out of shape and misses half the season with a sore vagina
The meat of the McLovin analysis comes through here. Obviously, when writting that cr@p, you’ve all but given up on being treated seriously.
by Conn Cowboy on Jan 24, 2012 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
ha ha ha...
dude – you show up to camp and have hamstring issues – that’s a conditioning thing…as soon as he signed the contract he went downhill with the drops in 2010 and now hamstrings in 2011 – i am unaware of any Austin injuries other than his hamstring…2009 was 3 seasons ago…
bottom line – one big year and then dropoff….and he’s been in the league for 6 years….you gotta give it to Cruz based on age and ‘what have u done for me lately’…Cruz could dropoff too…but now is better than back then
Coughlin has proven he can win a SB – Garrett is still having trouble with basic coaching…proven commodity > unknown
Manning and Romo have had very similar careers in NFL aside from how they entered the league and aside from 1 ring and 2 SB appearances by Manning…and on a lesser team than what Romo had (according to you)….Manning has proven he can win playoff games – Romo has not
dude – its ok to be a fan – just dont let it mess with your mind
Giants simply arent any better than the Cowboys and thats simply a fact - Terry
The Giants are NOT better than the Cowboys...thats the reality - Terry
Wow ... reading comprehension a problem?
dude – your rebuttal is 95% opinion and 5% stats
… and your post was 100% opinion. Also, my post was far more than 5% stats.
thanks for giving me credit – i really appreciate it
No … you don’t. You just want to hear your gums flapping in the wind.
by Conn Cowboy on Jan 24, 2012 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
Coaching-Giants-no contest?
You mean the same Giants staff that was clueless as to how much time was left on the clock for the game winning kick? Gotcha.
by TheCowboyFan on Jan 24, 2012 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
It's New York
Everyone is on the verge of being fired every day. I just saw the peanut vendor look over his shoulder…hahahaha
by Starred4Life on Jan 24, 2012 7:27 AM CST up reply actions
Remain Calm
Lifelong Cowboys Fan from the Swamps of Jersey
My Beer Blog: http://tiltingsuds.wordpress.com/
I would love to show you the finer points to a muay thai clinch whipped knee to the face seanrude
by matt575 on Nov 22, 2011 3:09 AM EST
The Giants are about two or three defensive players better than the Cowboys.
The Cowboys defense is DeMarcus Ware , Sean Lee and Jay Raliff against the league.
Hatcher , Jenkins and Spencer are ok.
The rest of the defense is nothing.
by Jonathan Stern on Jan 25, 2012 1:43 AM CST up reply actions
so i guess the giants mediocre in 2007-08 when they went 10-6
and beat the undefeated pats in the superbowl was a fluke as well.
The only person who said the giants were mediocre
in 2007-08 is you.
The Cowboys sometimes fit the mockery of the Cow Girls term.
I agree with you. We’re not a tough team. Just a team that wants to collect their paycheck.
While I agree that a talent defecit is the main reason that Dallas doesn't have a winning team
there isn’t a doubt in my mind that mental toughness, the ability to perform at your physical peak when physically tired, plays a role in the outcomes.
Physical toughness, playing through injuries, is another argument. There as well, some can manage their pain, and others can’t. We have NO idea who falls into that category, save for Romo who has proven that he is physically tough.
For all we know, Terence Newman might have been the toughest player on the team, for fighting through a season-long injury. This isn’t something we can judge from afar, and some football fans feel that if it can’t be quantified it doesn’t exist.
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I'm gonna have to argue on this point with you
Physical/Mental toughness definitely exists. But as another poster put, we’ve already found a way to factor that into our results: talent of a specific player. Other posters seem to think that a team as a whole is either mentally weak or mentally strong. I don’t see it.
That’s where I say you can’t quantify the toughness of a team. Because in order to do so you’re gonna have to prove two things:
1: There exists a theoretical team which has the exact same talent level of the Dallas Cowboys but is mentally tougher.
2: Said team wins more games than the Dallas Cowboys.
My major problem with Mental Toughness is that it seems to be a synonym for winning and losing games. Dan Bailey makes a clutch kick: Mentally tough. He shanks the next one from the same distance to lose the Arizona game. The team is mentally weak.
It’s a ridiculous argument which belies the actual cause for losing so many games this year: Lack of Talent
I'm not saying Tony Romo is the reincarnation of the mythical Romulus. I'm just saying
A common thread emerging here is
“one loss makes you mentally weak,” or “one missed kick” makes you mentally weak. While I can’t speak for others, my assertion that the Cowboys are mentally weak comes from over a half a decade of coughing-up leads, playing bad football down the stretches and playing mistake-prone football in general.
by Starred4Life on Jan 24, 2012 7:24 AM CST up reply actions
that's right....its the "here we go again" mentality
woe is me
Giants simply arent any better than the Cowboys and thats simply a fact - Terry
The Giants are NOT better than the Cowboys...thats the reality - Terry
This is the point some people don't want to admit
from over a half a decade of coughing-up leads, playing bad football down the stretches and playing mistake-prone football in general.
So we get the Wade Phillips school of thought – “A bye week is a playoff win”
“The Cowboys are more talented than the Giants”
“Romo is a clutch qb, he just makes one or two mistakes at the end of games”
I am tired of arguing with all of this so I will sum up my point of view -
I’d rather have the worse team if my team could win playoff games and go to Super Bowls. Having a better team on paper is like having a phony check worth a million dollars – totally useless when it counts.
You don't understand
We have a bad team because they can’t win games.
You have a worse team
If you want a team that is “clutch” or can win games you want a more talented team. So yeah no
I'm not saying Tony Romo is the reincarnation of the mythical Romulus. I'm just saying
I understand
but so many people on here want to say that the Giants are the “worse” team so I meant that I’ll take the so called “worse” team if I can have those kind of results.
What I don’t understand is why it is so hard for people to just admit that the Giants are better than us right now. It sucks but it is the reality so we all need to just accept it and move on.
It's easy for me to admit that the Giants are better than us.
I’m into reality football, not fantasy football. Stats don’t mean sh*t to me, I want to play in February and win the 6th ring. The Giants are better than us at all positions, except maybe TE. Yes, Manning is better than Romo. He’s not as pretty, but comes through in the clutch, time and time again. That’s what football is about.
I hope that Garrett and Jerry draft some physical SOB’s this year.
by 1 proud terp on Jan 24, 2012 9:46 PM CST up reply actions
Newman shouldn't have been on the team in the first place. Jerry is always a year late with guys like Newman.
Jerry is the end all in Dallas.
by football mensa on Jan 25, 2012 5:58 AM CST up reply actions
Here is why ...
What I don’t understand is why it is so hard for people to just admit that the Giants are better than us right now.
It is easy for you because it rationalizes everything. “oh … the Giants are just better than us … I can go on my merry way knowing that the best team always wins the football team and we aren’t the best team.” That isn’t me — I try to take a deeper look at things.
Then again, there are some that will exclaim that the Cowboys are the best team in football no matter what the record. I’m not one of those either.
I started posting on this blog since the Arizona game, and I have written several pieces critical of both players and coaches. That being said, I can separate the good from the bad and realize that football is a game in which the best team doesn’t always win.
On the DC website, last year, I’ve been writing about how MBIII just couldn’t cut it anymore and that he needed to go. I’ve been saying the same thing about Bradie James for a couple years now and about Keith Brooking. Their good years are behind them and its time to move on. These guys may have heart and passion, but they are too slow. I always refer to the Patriots and the Eagles that are teams that don’t hold onto their good players too long by getting rid of a guy before he doesn’t have anything left in the tank.
There is nothing wrong about being critical of the Cowboys. However, don’t paint every players as “soft” or “no heart” or “no will to win” or “not mentally tough” just because a team lost.
This was a point brought up in the “O-Ring” post, which is a team is only as strong as its weakest link. Unfortunately, the Cowboys had a lot of weak links. The middle of the offensive line was bad, and Free was overwhelmed at times at LT. Our other inside linebackers (i.e., anybody not named Sean Lee) wasn’t making plays and neither was any of our secondary (besides the fact that all of our corners missed time because of injuries).
With all that being said, do I think the Giants are a better team? No. I think the Giants are a team with a lot of flaws. They got some good bounces during the playoffs, but that is football. Sometimes you get the bounces, sometimes you don’t. Regardless, I think we have are well positioned for next year. Fix the weak links, firm up the coaching, and stay healthy, and I very much like our chances for 2012.
I'm assuming some of those bounces you refer to
were Manning bouncing up off the turf again and again! Don’t get me wrong, I’m a big fan of Romo, think he’s a quality QB, but watching Eli scrape himself up off the turf time and time again, I couldn’t help but think of Romo being air-lifted out of the stadium had that been him…
by Starred4Life on Jan 25, 2012 7:31 AM CST up reply actions
Really?
Do you remember the Raven’s game a couple years ago? Romo was getting blasted every time he threw the ball. We could have won that game if the defense learned how to tackle and didn’t let up 2 long TD rushes in consecutive possessions (some things haven’t changed with the Cowboys).
I couldn’t help but think of Romo being air-lifted out of the stadium had that been him.
I guess you didn’t watch the game when the Cowboys played SF earlier this year.
I also recall a critical drive against Miami this year in which he was getting blasted every play yet stil kept making plays. I think Phil Simms was calling the game that day and called it the best drive he’s seen from a QB that year.
Conn, I just want to make this clear:
I can’t disagree with you here:
However, don’t paint every players as "soft" or "no heart" or "no will to win" or "not mentally tough" just because a team lost.
However, had you said this, "…just because a team lost numerous games over the course of a half a decade by way of dumb and generally uninspired football, I would vehemently disagree.
I don’t think any one of those saying the Cowboys need more mental toughness have made that judgement after one loss; it’s the trend—the trend that has developed over 5+ years—that is disturbing.
by Starred4Life on Jan 25, 2012 7:39 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly
I never said that every player was soft or had no heart. I just am sick of this team finding ways to lose games even if we change coaches, coordinators or draft new players.
I don’t get why we can’t seem to fix the weak links and suffer the same fate year after year.
I am especially frustrated this year because I bought what JG was selling so to see the same types of losses and an inability to make the playoffs really hurt.
There are a whole lot of things that go into winning football games ...
than mental toughness.
First, let’s throw out all the games from when Aikman retired to when Romo started playing. We had bad QBs (or QBs at the end of their careers) and it is tough to win in this league with a bad (or even average QB) when you don’t have a dominating defense. This is a QB league — plain and simple. If you don’t have one, you are SOL.
As for recent history (i.e., the “Romo-era”) we haven’t done as good as we’ve hoped, but we’ve been to the playoffs 3 times during that period. Not great, but certainly better than things.
One thing I learned early on in my football-watching career is that turnovers and injuries play a huge part in who wins or loses on any given Sunday and these are two things out of your control. You can control who you sign/draft/play, but you cannot control an injury or a tipped ball that gets picked off or a blind-side hit that makes a normally sure-handed runner cough up the ball.
Other example, who would have predicted the Roy Williams (the safety) would have gone from world-beater his first few seasons to an entirely disinterested player his last few seasons. Can you predict that? Can you plan for that? No ….
Regardless … if we are going to continue this discussion, why don’t you define “mental toughness” for us so that we all know what you are talking about. While you are at it, tell me who, on the Cowboys, isn’t mentally tough (provide examples if you can).
As I wrote above, “mental toughness” is something that a team has, in hindsight, after they win a game. Somebody asked Romo about leadership and what it takes to be a great leader (I’m paraphrasing). His answer was that winning makes great leadership. In essence, it doesn’t matter what you do — if you win, you are a great leader; if you lose, you are not.
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